Ep.372 The Essex Circles

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So, we can now listen to your podcast. starting a business can be overwhelming you're juggling multiple roles designer marketer logistics manager all while bringing your vision to life shopify helps millions of business sell online build fast with templates and ai descriptions and photos inventory and shipping sign up for your one euro per month trial and start selling today at shopify.nl that's shopify.nl it's time to see what you can accomplish with Shopify by your side. So, then can you now listen to your podcast. accomplish with Shopify by your side. I don't know what it was, but it's from at least 2, 3,000 feet above us. Yeah, it passed right over the top of us. 911. You guys busy? 911. 911. 911. Welcome to UFO Chronicles, a place where people share their experiences of the strange and unexplained. If you've had an encounter and would like to be on the show, you can email me at ufochronicles at gmail dot com. Hello everyone and welcome to the show. How are you all doing? I'm Nick Hunter and this is the UFO Chronicles Podcast. Tonight's guest is David from Essex in the UK. And what began in childhood develops over time into a series of deeply physical and psychological encounters. David describes being drawn into spiritualist circles despite initial skepticism. Repeatedly drawn into situations where others believed he was more than a passive participant. and experiencing moments where his body appeared to respond before his mind ever agreed. David is also part of the Essex UFO and Paranormal Group, taking part in investigations and group work connected to unexplained experiences across the region. David is up next. But first, if you enjoyed the show and you would like to help support the podcast on Patreon, you can do this for as little as $1 a month. Head on over to patreon.com forward slash UFO Chronicles Podcast. You can also find a link in the description of this episode. Any help is very much appreciated. Now, on with the show. Hello, David. Welcome to the podcast. Well hello Nick, I hope you're keeping well I am indeed, and thank you for joining us tonight and you're calling from Essex in the UK I am Nick, on a very rainy day, a very blustery day and I did manage a walk today and so the legs are aching a bit I don't know how far, but it was quite a way and now I'm sitting indoors, very cosily wrapped up, believe it or not in a dressing gown, so that paints a picture for you of what I'm doing at the moment sounds cozy to me david yeah wonderful okay now david you have some experiences to share with us would you like to start the beginning please sir yes certainly well the very beginning i suppose was when i was a child and i had a i said a dream it was you know you get these dreams that you never ever forget and you think that was more than a dream and it was i was in this garden and it was made of light it was pure light and there was a very tall gentleman stood next to me this was about five years old i would think and now in later years i remember i realized that he was a chinese man and he was pointing to things in this garden and you could see them flowers and etc but they were brighter light than the light whether that was a contact i've no idea but that dream always stayed with me and now if we fast forward another 40 years so excuse me not 40 about 35 years i actually started getting involved in things when i was 40 years old and that was driving i used to work down petticoat lane because what they call a graft you know i'll stand there and auction things off and clap my hands and say you know for six of your hands in the air please uh don't be number seven don't be left out and uh anyway it was been snowing quite a bit and i put the radio on and this announcement came up that um there was going to be a meeting at the women's institute hall on canby island that's where i happen to live at the time and um something in my head it said it was a spiritualist meeting and i have to say i knew absolutely zero about spiritualism I did nothing really I just imagined old ladies in the room saying is anybody there anyway I decided in my head all of a sudden I'm going to go to that so anyway I got home after the day's work and went in and my wife was there and I said oh there's one of those spiritualist things on it it's called the Healing Hands Centre apparently anyway would you like to go and she sort of leapt at the idea I didn't even know she was interested in that sort of thing. So I've never really spoken about things as such. We had had a haunting experience early, but I won't go back to that because it'll break the run. Anyway, off we went and I walked into the hall and instantly felt, oh, this is a, I love the atmosphere in here. And it was packed, you know. And there was a sign on the desk where they were selling the raffle tickets and taking the couple of quid entrance fee that said, expect a miracle. And I thought, oh, I like that even more. Anyway, I went and sort of looked around, and it was packed, and there was a couple of seats left at the back, so sort of squeezed itself in there. And, you know, the usual thing, Lady gets up, and she introduces herself and does the Lord's Prayer and this sort of thing, and then she introduces the medium, and Lady gets up on the platform. She looks around and looks in my direction and goes, ah, I see you're a healer. So I did the usual thing. Of course, I turned around and there was a wall behind me. So I realized she was talking to me. And I said, sorry. She said, I see that you're a healer. I said, sorry, I don't know what you mean. She said, are you new to this? I said, yes. She said, oh, well, OK. She said, well, take it from me. Anyway, she then went on to say other stuff. so anyway the evening went on and we came out and i sort of said to my wife i think they're a little bit odd in there but i did like the atmosphere i said shall we come try somewhere else next week yeah okay so we went to another one which happens to be on bread and cheese hill place called bread and cheese hill thundersley and uh anyway went in there and that was more like a church and we sat down like the atmosphere again very nice up gets the medium points to me yes you're a healer aren't you no no no i'm not a healer oh yes sure she said i can feel it from here i can feel it from here okay anyway it's a kind of long story short we went to about another three or four places no but another three places after that and it was the same thing everywhere and in the end i said i'll tell you what we might as well go back to that healing hands place and see what they you know so anyway that's a healing hands and at the time it's run by a lady called sheila spooner her husband's name was dave very nice people and um again it was packed in there sat down up gets the medium points at me same message again and i thought oh dear this is like getting a bit silly by then obviously i'd come to understand what what a healer might be you know so anyway I went stood up to get out at the end of the evening and standing next to me blocking my way is Sheila the lady that runs her places she said how many times do you need telling I said well you know what do you mean I said that's not really my thing I don't know about healing so she said to me would you like to stay behind and watch the healing well that was an opportunity that I wasn't going to miss because what happens is everybody goes home apart from those that want the healing and they have a stage they draw curtains around the stage and people who want healing go up on the stage one at a time the setup on the stage there is a chair to the right and the chair to the left of the stage you have one man and one woman at each chair and they're the ones that are going to do the healing they play a little bit of soft music you know a bit of atmospheric stuff going on anyway they put a chair sort of a little bit away from them for me and sat back a bit, but just so that I could watch what was happening. So anyway, they started doing their healing, and you could tell this was their time. This is what they were there for, and they changed completely, these people, the atmosphere. And I felt the atmosphere change. I'm like, wow, this is really good. I like this. And then all of a sudden, in my forehead, I got this bang, bang, bang, and then my throat, then my heart, all the way down my body. I literally came banged to pieces and I literally fell off the chair, crashed onto the floor. I was more or less out unconscious. And I heard someone say, quick, quick, get away from the healing. And so they took me to the back of the hall or dragged me. And they also came to after a while. And Sheila said to me, you better come around my house and we'll have a chat. So I went around her house. i says what's going on here well she said if you can imagine and bear in mind this is not my total belief i'm specifically relating the story she said imagine that you have a healing guide i said okay what an invisible thing yeah yeah she said a healing guide you know what guy yeah i do now she said and you're there in a healing circumstance that guide wants to be healing through you and he's trying to force his way into you in order to do that well it might be all right for him but it didn't work out too great for me you know i fell off the chair and i could have brought me flipping neck anyway she said well listen she said why don't you let us show you how to do helium i said i'll think about it okay anyway at that time i'd stopped working at petticoat lane and i was now working at witton market in essex i was demonstrating a car polish called mer you had to set fire to the bonnet of a car and polish it it was quite a big demonstration and um anyway also but in those days i played a little bit of rugby and a lot of taxi driving all for extra money and my knees used to really be absolute agony if i drove anywhere within within three four minutes i would really really be in pain and i mean serious pain so anyway this sunday morning i'm on my way to Whitton Market and I'm driving down the A12 and I'm really in agony, wriggling about in the seat trying to get any position. And I got a bit angry and I just shouted out, I won't use my exact words, if you want me to be a healer, flipping will heal me then. And as I said it, an energy came down, literally started at my head and went right through my body. I can almost feel it now. and that was it never had a day's problem with my knees after that so a promise is a promise and i went back to healing hands and i started healing so that was my introduction really into what would you call it the paranormal spiritualism the unusual i don't know what word you would use to describe it really at healing hands i had things that i heard of that were called circles these circles sounded quite mysterious and you'd hear people sort of whispering to each other about what happened in circle, bally bally bally and I thought well I'd love to do that, that sounds really interesting. So basically a guy called Ian and his wife Gloria came up to me in the church and said how do you like to come around and try a place after the service and we'll have a cup of tea and we can maybe speak to each other about you joining our circle. I thought, oh, this sounds great. So back to the house I went and there were, I don't know, probably six people in the room apart from myself and my wife. And it turned out that they were all mediums. Every single one of them was a medium. And I'm listening to them speaking and I think, oh, that's marvellous, the things that they can do, you know, and the messages they've been giving. They never mentioned names, by the way. They were just saying about messages they're giving to people, blah, blah. And I look in there, I'm interested. And I said, well, I could never do that. And that was probably the worst thing I could possibly say, because as I said it, all of it's turned on me. Oh, no, what's going to happen now? And they almost unanimously said, yes, you can. And I said, no, I can't. I don't know how to do that. Yes, you do. They said, just try something. so Ian Hood invited me and said just say the first thing that comes into your head well as he said it the whole room lit up and I mean bright bright light and I'm in the light and by now I mean this is complete experience you know this is not like a little bit of mental input this is actually happening and I saw the American flag waving in front of me and the words came through i started speaking i see the american flag and there are less stars upon it america is weakening the next view i had then i'm looking down from the sky over this country the uk and the words were i'm now looking down upon this land and it's surrounded by oil. The land is divided, not north from south, but east from west. I see a light approaching from the north and another from the south. And when they meet over this land, it will herald a new golden age. And as these lights I saw watching met, this huge shower of gold just pouring down all over the land. And then, woof, I'm back in the room. not quite with it because it was like it took a lot out of me to be honest and yeah so I'm back in the room and they're all looking at me and I'm not realising what was going on properly and I just said to them well follow that then and then they all just started chatting as if nothing had happened so that was that and anyway after that I did go along to Ian's and it was very good, I suppose, there were about four or five of us there. And it turned out that I was actually quite psychic and mediumistic I was well giving off giving off they call them as you probably know messages And then all of a sudden I was doing trance mediumship. And that, again, is an interesting experience. I wasn't completely out of it. I knew that I was still somewhere, but whatever it was speaking through me, It just, obviously, that was coming from some different level, some different place. And then I actually started to see what they were speaking about, you know, the incidents and what have you. And, yeah, so then, in a very short space of time, I don't know how I got away with it, because I really still knew nothing, ended up starting my own little group. And that was, oh, crikey, let me think. There were about five of us start with there. We didn't have a clue what we were doing. And it didn't matter because we would light a candle and we would start to meditate and things would happen. All sorts of things would happen. I'll tell you a funny one in a minute. But first of all, there was loads of things. It's just one thing. We used to light a candle in each quarter, what we called a quarter. and I used to get the ladies to light a quarter, north, south, east, west, and one for spirit, obviously. And as we sat there, we started with all the lights were out, so we just had candlelight. And as we started to meditate, boom, all of the candles went out. So there we were sitting in absolute pitch black darkness. And okay, they've blown out or whatever, who knows. So we just carried on and we did our thing. and all sorts of things were going on. I suppose probably maybe 15, 20 minutes. And then we sort of came back to the room, which is the only way I can explain it, come back to reality, if you like. And as we came back, boom, all the candles relit. But the other thing again is we had so many of these things happening, it was like, oh, did you see that? Yeah, yeah. And then it was, oh, we'll have a cup of tea now. You know, it was just perfectly normal. And we knew so little that if we had an entity turn up, you know, something with a dog's head or whatever, which actually did turn up, I'd have to go into the library in Southend and go through the books and find out what it was that we'd actually seen. That's the beginning of my little story there. In the meantime, I met another guy called Jeff Hughes, and he was a practicing magician. He works with what he called the Arthurian energy. But I won't go down that road because that will be a complete other story again. Yeah, so many, many moons ago. Oh, these circles went on for a while. I say for a while, probably for two years. But really, I have found over time that circles exhaust themselves. They can go on for so long and then they kind of begin to lose their weight. they lose their dynamic, you know. But in that time, I mean, we were very, very close. The people were so close, you know, that I could be sitting indoors and suddenly think, oh, God, someone duly revving around with it. Are you two still at it? Oh, sorry, Dave. I see you're disrupting the atmosphere. Blah, blah, blah. And, yeah, so from there, oh, crikey, I forgot to tell you about the dragon, didn't I? Okay. This was another experience that I had. I mentioned the name Jeff Hughes just now and he was a practicing magician and he actually could make things happen which I found rather intriguing anyway how I met Jeff and his wife Val she was a platform medium I went to Healing Hands one night and you know sitting there chatting to the people as you do I said oh what's on tonight oh we haven't got a medium tonight we've got this man talking man called Jeff, oh okay anyway, the lady got up and announced what was going on and this evening we have a gentleman with us called Jeff Hughes and I'm not quite sure what he's going to tell you but anyway, I'm sure it'll be interesting, I think probably they'd run out of mediums and they'd got him in so anyway, out strides this guy, bearded wearing a full-on robe with hood, carrying a massive sword in his hands. And you could say a little bit unusual. People there at the back of the hole are muttering, what's this? What is this? Anyway, he then started speaking, and he was giving his philosophy that we're all on the spokes of a wheel. We're all on individual spokes, but they all go back to one place, the centre. so we're all heading the same way and he carried on talking about lots of things which probably just totally went over my head at the time but i could hear people in the back behind me and this sort of a thing giggling and saying oh this is black magic this is black or this is oh he shouldn't be all you know blah blah blah i'm sitting there thinking what are they talking about the guys there he's not charging anything he's just telling his story anyway actually got quite bad and when When he'd finished, normally you'd get people go up and ask questions and things like that, but nobody moved. I thought, that's just damn rude. I'm not having that. I'm going to go and ask him to come back to my place for a cup of tea. So I did that one up. Would you like to come back to my house for a cup of tea? Oh, yes, he said, that would be very nice. And so at the time my wife was also doing healing by then, I said to her, I won't be doing healing. so i'm taking jeff back to us for tea oh yeah that's okay so anyway off we trundled back to my place which was on camby island at the time and sitting in the front room chatting jeff was in front of me to the left and val was in front of me to the right and we were chatting away about spiritualism and i could see jeff was getting irritated because you know a magician is is far too grand to listen to something on a low level like spiritualism anyway all of a sudden i just got this feeling that something was on its way i know that sounds a bit crazy but yeah it is a bit crazy but that's the way it was and i said jeff i said i don't know if you're aware of it i can feel something that it feels as if it's coming towards the house and he said yes i know I said oh what is it he said I don't know oh okay he said I can call it in if you like oh well let me see about this so anyway that by then I used to have the knack of instantly locking in and linking with my guide or guides then so I said to him well I'll tell what i'll ask my guide if it's okay and bob the guide was there instantly and i said to the guide what do you think that was an extremely helpful way the guide said to me it's up to you so then val said to me you know she was sitting on it she said do you mind if i test your guide i said what do you mean testing because i'm in and out of the guide you know she said well i want to ask him a question i said okay so anyway she said to the guide tell me the story of the willow pattern well i've never met anybody yet that actually knows the story of the willow pattern and i certainly didn't so this all of a sudden this guy talking through me tells her the story of the willow pattern which don't ask me to remember it but when you do these things you don't remember much about it and all i mistake he went and the vows said yeah yeah he's a proper guide and um it's more or less up to you then. So I said to Jeff, go on then, call it in. Anyway, Jeff then used these words, which I don't repeat, and once again, the whole room lit up. Boom, and I mean, bright, bright light. The room was there, but gone, and it was brilliant light, and the energy of it was quite amazing. And then from the middle of the floor, I noticed this spiral beginning to rise up when it was a spiral of light and it was lighter than the light in the room if you ever say where am I going with that it got taller and taller and gradually it actually turned into of all things a dragon well I suppose you call it a light dragon by now I'm not moving I'm not afraid I'm not anything I'm just in this experience and I felt myself come up out of my body and go towards this light dragon and it embraced me and I can honestly say the feeling of love was so immense that I can't even describe it it was just pure, pure love and it was marvellous and I just sort of whispered to this whatever it was, light dragon and I felt I knew him and I said, oh, it's you. And he just in my head went, who were you expecting? And then it backed off, started to spiral back into the ground and it vanished into the ground and then gradually came back to normal. But the air was still absolutely buzzing and almost like an electrical charge is the only way that I can actually describe it. And, yeah, I don't know how I could bypass that little thing, but there were so many things going on at the time. So I actually started working with Jeff at the same time as running a circle. And the circle, obviously, by then was a cross between spiritualism and working with the Arthurian energies and blah, blah, blah. Then I... It's strange the way that things happen, though, because things just fall into place. they just happen. For instance, one night, we used to meet by then, either at Gloria Neon's house or around the house where I run the circle, which was a different place. We used to meet by then practically every single night, and we'd do what we call workings every single night. So we were building up a massive energy, and the more that you do, the more powerful it gets. So anyway, interesting little story now, I think. What's interesting to me, I hope it's you. There was a guy called Phil who was a friend of ours, a good friend and a very in-touch guy. He was a painter, a musician, a very, very good stonemason, used to work on all the old churches and all this sort of a thing. And one day we were sitting around Ian and Gloria's house, about four of us, and there's a knock on the door and in strides Phil. and he had this sword. The scabbard was down his back, sort of thing. So the hilt of the sword, if you can imagine, was sticking up above his, I think, above his left-hand shoulder. And he's pulled this sword out. And there is a big story behind the sword, which I haven't got time to tell you. He pulled this sword out and he handed it to me. He said, what do you think of this then? And I said, you've made this for magical reasons. He said yes, and I said, and I'll tell you what I think of it. I said, there's a figure stood in the corner of this room that I can see quite clearly, and it isn't your sword, it's their sword. I said, this sword has a guardian, and you've taken it, you know, when you shouldn't. I'm not giving it back, he said, and he's set this sword back, put it back in the hill, the scabbard, and off he's gone. Okay, fair enough, if that's the way that he wants it to be, that's fine. so the next night once again round at Glorinians once again knock on the door in comes Phil now Phil is now looking petrified and I mean he's a big lad big strong guy he doesn't frighten that easily and I said to him okay what's going on I said I've got to give this sword back I said well I told you you've got to give it back I said you've been getting problems Yeah, he said, I'm getting problems, all right. I said, well, okay, give it back. He said, I can't give it back. I said, well, he said, can't you give it back? Oh, jeez, okay, give me the sword. So he gave me the sword, and as he did, into the room appears this guardian of the sword, who then comes in to me, which obviously was a bit unexpected and a bit unprepared and a bit amateur of me to allow that to happen, but it did. and he had words with Phil about this sword and you know it's mine I'm taking it now and uh which um obviously he could only take the energy of the sword uh the sword had energy in it which is another story and anyway off he went with his sword but as he went being a bit cheeky because he was quite a fierce sort of a guy he was a guardian and that's all he did he guarded the spirit of the soul which incidentally was supposed to contain the energy of Excalibur just to brighten things up a bit and anyway as he was on his way out I said do you mind if I can borrow it now again and he sort of looked at me as if to say you maybe I shouldn't have said it and anyway off he went so that part of the story is okay but some years later I was studying under a shaman called emiris and we went to this hall where we used to turn on the first night i was there i met some people there and we got chatting and i got quite friendly with a couple and anyway we got friendly with them and as i got to know them quite well over a little period of time we got chatting and i found out that they'd sat in circles and they'd done this and then they happened to mention that they'd sat in a magical group in eastwood i said oh that's interesting i said um because i i happen to know that at the time that this sword that filled with the energy of this sword down into the sword there was another rival group trying to get the energy into their sword mad isn't it so anyway i said to them did you ever um come across and i i gave the name of the guardian which i certainly won't give here and they said yes we actually manufactured him i said what do you mean you manufactured him they they knew the name straight away yeah we i said what do you mean well they said when we were working to draw the energy of the sword down into the sword, we decided to manufacture a guardian to look after the sword. So I nearly fell over because, crikey, this is actually confirmation that another group manufactured this guardian that then was a guardian of the sword that was stolen by Phil that came to us. And that's the sort of mad, mad things that would happen back in the day. Yeah, so things just went on. on from there really but uh on the lighter side one evening we were around at tom's house doing an ordinary circle you know a little spiritually type circle and he went into the kitchen to do something we were just sitting there we started to meditate there's a big boom bang what the hell the whole house shook and i sort of went out into the kitchen and tom's leaning a guff against the wall looking bossy and really gar-gar. It turned out that he'd smelt gas and he'd actually done the thing that nobody should ever do. He'd opened the cupboard with the boiler and struck a match so that he could see what was in there. And of course, he got blown right across the room. So not everything that happens in the group is, how can we say, it's weird. Some of it can be quite funny. but yeah so as I say at the time I was working with Jeff he actually wrote a book Jeff Ancient Magic for Modern Times I think it was called something like that it was published I think by Llewellyn Press somewhere in America what happened to him I don't know he just went off to Iceland I think or something like that Starting a business can be overwhelming. You're juggling multiple roles, designer, marketer, logistics manager, all while bringing your vision to life. Shopify helps millions of business sell online. Build fast with templates and AI descriptions and photos, inventory and shipping. Sign up for your one euro per month trial and start selling today at shopify.nl. That's shopify.nl. It's time to see what you can accomplish with Shopify by your side. I know you want to listen to your podcast, so I'm going to keep it short. Because if you think it's important to make a duroze choices, can ASR maybe help? I think I'm going to think, how then? Well, for example, when you're doing a lot of things that are you love to do. Will you know more about the insurance where a duroze schade-in-house-stown is? Go to asr.nl slash duroze keuzes. This is ASR for you and a duroze. ASR does it. So, we can now listen to your podcast. One Life One Story Podcasts Starting a business can be overwhelming You juggling multiple roles designer marketer logistics manager all while bringing your vision to life Shopify helps millions of business sell online. Build fast with templates and AI descriptions and photos, inventory and shipping. Sign up for your one euro per month trial and start selling today at shopify.nl. That's shopify.nl. It's time to see what you can accomplish with Shopify by your side. Do that. So, then can you now listen to your podcast. by your side. What does your wife feel about you bringing all these magicians home and people with swords? Oh, well, she joined in. Yeah, we all joined in. And I was told by Jeff, whatever I was, that first of all, I was a light worker. I said, I don't want to be a light worker. I want to be like you you're i want to be a magician so anyway sometime after this we did lots of stuff and lots of work and he said to me well you're not a magician i was gutted he said you're a hierophant i didn't have a clue what a hierophant was i said i don't want to be a hierophant i want to be a magician no he said you don't understand he said the hierophant is a very important job and i'm well i don't care if it's important or blah blah blah and uh what did she make of it well yeah as I say she joined in and then basically she went to a separate spiritualist circle but we both sort of worked with um Jeff Hughes yeah well what okay a little bit more on Jeff Hughes Jeff had this beautiful sword that he'd had made I don't know from where it must have cost a lot of money it was really really nice and he and the other members of the group unknown to me they didn't tell me and I have no idea why obviously not my wife included but the others they went over to a place called Eastwood Kingswood actually I think it's called and in Thundersley and they went in there to work on drawing down the energy of Excalibur into the sword so they did this ritual and what have you and the energy descended but instead of going into his sword it actually went into phil's sword so the energy went into the wrong not the wrong sword it went into the correct sword and that was how the energy of excalibur going to the sword that was how i came to come across the guardian of the sword it is such a long and convoluted story i hope by now that i haven't lost your listeners because i'm beginning to lose the like myself yeah so there you are wonderful so are you both still involved in spiritualism I'm actually left that wife many moons ago and remarried and sadly that good lady died and I'm now living with a rather lovely lady called Sue and she's looking at me I'm not living with her we're married so it's actually my third marriage I'm getting all sorts of looks in I know you wouldn't believe but there you go And yes, well, basically, in between times, I met a lady called Anne, and this again is way back in the day. There's so many characters involved that it's like a chess set, if you can imagine it. Well, Anne had the gift of sight from a child. You know, she could go to a place and tell you what was there 100 years ago, 200 years ago, and you check it up. For instance, I'll tell you a story about Anne. Okay, I'm off on another tack now because this is all going on at the same time. Anne is a lovely lady. Lovely lady. We started working together, going around houses that had problems, you know. The usual sort of things going on that go on in haunted houses. Obviously, they weren't all haunted. I mean, if you put a program on the TV about hauntings, suddenly your phone's ringing and everybody's got a haunted house. anyway she wanted to go up to Manningtree because that was the home of the witch well that was where the witch finder general came from she said or lived oh okay and we'll go up to Manningtree so we got a little group of us together and off we went to Manningtree and there's a nice little town right on the river there and we went into this sort of a graveyard place not at the church but a little way across the road and we stood in there in a circle, a little group, probably six or seven of us. And yeah, that was a bit odd because we could hear this sound of a zip going up and down. And it turned out that one of the guys there was a zip on his trousers. As mad as that sounds. Anyway, we left there and we went over to the churchyard and we were sort of looking around the churchyard, all very interesting, very nice. And then Anne said to me, I'm seeing a black box. Somebody's lost a black box. I said, what are you talking about black box? I said, nobody's got a black box, Anne. Oh, she said, I'm telling you. Anyway, then somebody's came right across the graveyard. I said, excuse me, you haven't seen my camera, have you? I've lost it here somewhere. Uh, no, sorry, we haven't seen it. Anyway, all of the others left, and they left early, leaving Anne and I there, and we started to leave the church, and we got down by the gate, you know, of the church, and she said to me, who's that sitting over there pointing back at the church that would be let me see the south door just outside the south door there's a sort of to me thing and she said uh who's that sitting there i said i don't know and i can't see anybody and she used to get real stroppy with me uh what do you mean you get you can see it clear look he's there they're right that no and i'm sorry i can't see them i really i say i can sense people and things like that but my sight just isn't that good she said well who is it i said i don't know i can't see them go over and ask just go and ask go on so off she goes over to the church's door and she's standing there i can see her chatting away and oh yeah hand gestures and all sorts going on and i'm looking around thinking if anybody sees this completely think we're mad well perhaps beyond that who knows anyway she then came back And I said, well, did you find out who it was? Yes, she said, it's Willie Lily. I'm laughing now. I must admit, I laughed then. I thought, you've absolutely got this one wrong. Willie Lily, somebody is pulling your leg. Willie is all the way driving home. I'm giving her plenty of, oh, Willie Lily, yeah. Oh, good old Willie Lily is probably following you now in the back seat. Anyway, we got home. and obviously I dropped her off because she has a farm in Essex. So I dropped her off her farm. I went home and I'd just purchased a computer, first one ever. And I thought, well, I'll put the computer on. And I suddenly thought, oh, I'm going to type in Willie Lilly and see what happens. I typed in Willie Lilly. Up it came. William Lilly, friend of Hopkins, which finder general, often visited Manning Shree and stayed at this. I nearly fell over. His name was William Lilly and he actually existed. I mean, so I learned from them never ever to doubt Anne again and I never ever would doubt her again. And she's never ever been around me. She must be, God knows, I hope she doesn't hear this. She must be pushing 90 now. God bless a lovely, lovely lady. and also I went over to somebody called up and they said they had a problem with their house so okay I said where do you live okay they gave me an address it's fairly local and I phoned and I said oh do you fancy going a little ghosty thing oh yeah she was always up for that yeah yeah when I said oh I don't know tomorrow yeah okay anyway we went to this house it's a very very nice house they were obviously quite wealthy people and they were asian people one of them was a a psychiatrist the other one was a medical doctor but the psychiatrist he wasn't just a psychiatrist apparently he ran the whole flipping psychiatry thing in the area so you know they were very well to do very nice people and um before you talk any business at all with asian people it's quite wonderful out comes the food so he has some really lovely food and then got around to saying to them well you know what what is the problem well she said the wife this is she said my sister i think she's put a curse on us i thought oh you don't know for near about well back then you did nothing here about curses so i said what do you mean put a curse on you she said well she said things keep going wrong in the family. My daughter's got trouble. And I'm thinking, you know, these things happen in all families. Of course they do. But then her husband chips in. Yes. He said, her sister has been going with this guy and he's absolutely known for being a black magician back in Pakistan or wherever it was that came from. And I'm thinking, oh, this is beginning to sound a little bit stupid now, but show me something that what's going on. Well, she said, little red marks keep appearing everywhere. I said, oh, okay, show us some. So we went over and looked at this table, and sure enough, there's a little red mark on it. Just an ordinary table, light-coloured, you know. Okay. Then she took us to another place, and there's a little red mark there. This is a bit weird. I was all concerned about these little red marks. Anyway, we all sat down at the table, and I looked down at her fingernails, and at the time at the table it was myself and a guy called Mark I won't give his name he'd come along with us a lovely guy liked a bit of that all in fighting game he liked to do that anyway I looked at the fingernails I looked at Mark and he looked down I said don't mind me saying but your nail varnish is the same colour as those red marks oh no she said it's not that so Mark said oh can we just test something she said just put your finger on this upside and just move it along she did and there was a red mark so so far this is a nothing burger isn't it and anyway as we were sitting there the the couple the husband the wife went over to do something in the kitchen and Mark who was sitting opposite Anne and I all of a sudden he started oh ouch oh and as i looked at him it's because scratches started appearing on his neck his face and then he was getting scratched down the back i mean actual physical scratches appearing right in front of my eyes as i'm sitting and watching so we've gone from a nothing burger to put old mark getting scratched to pieces completely by whatever don't ask i've no idea and even and couldn't see what it was, but it obviously wasn't your normal ghosty thing. In the end, we sort of explained to the people that, okay, you have to use your senses a little bit, sensed it was probably the land that the house was on, and so we did a little ceiling thing, which is not easy to do, and whether it works or not, I don't know, because dealing with that sort of thing is not like dealing with an ordinary spook. and yeah so that was very unusual sitting there watching you watching your buddy getting scratched to pieces and I've come across that quite a few times too we had a case in London and I we went down to London it was three ladies in the house mother and two daughters and they were telling me that they kept getting scratched and they showed me photographs of the scratches bruises on the neck this sort of a thing but it turned out also speaking to them that whatever was doing this the family was split in various areas in london say three different areas in london and it would go from one place of part of the family to another part of the family to another part of the family and then come back then to them to them you say and that was a really interesting case, we picked up a lot of stuff and we did sort it out, well, yeah, we did sort it out because they said it was all good. And it turned out that, and as I say, this is, I'm not saying this is 100%, but this is what we gleaned. Back in the family during the war, there was an old guy that lived near the family's relatives, you know, and he had somehow latched onto the family and he had died and it was him that was following them around. Yeah, all these sort of things. I mean, what do I make of it? I don't know. And we've had lots and lots of cases, that sort of thing that's gone on. I would imagine that over the years, we've probably been on, Anne and I that is, on a couple of hundred cases, probably 90% of them absolutely nothing the case with the ladies that were getting scratched at the end of the evening where we sort of worked out what was going on I suddenly saw a little boy standing next to me and I said to them oh little boy here his name is Michael Michael oh no we don't know who that is no I don't know Michael so anyway okay fair enough I got that one wrong so I went home and the next day they called up I said is everything okay yeah yeah it's all good all good lovely jubbly they said oh that Michael by the way they said we went and asked our nan about I told her what had gone on and she said you must remember Michael it was a little invisible friend you used to play with and they had completely forgotten about this Michael but there for some strange reason if it was the same Michael it's on the actual night so every case is different you know, every case has got its own thing going on one little girl the cases I really do like are when children tell you, because little children, they don't tell lies you know, they tell you the way that it is sometimes not to your benefit, but there you go oh, ok, yeah, I've just been reminded by there's so many things honestly i could right okay i'll give you one last story he's to know a guy called kevin wade and he was on the radio i think radio essex or something like that and what he would do he would give readings over the phone and i'd got quite friendly with kevin and been to his wedding and all sorts of things like that anyway one day i got a phone call from him oh dave how you doing yeah okay kev you all right yeah yeah he said um i got a lady he said uh she lives down in croydon and she's got a bit of a problem going on he said i've had a look but i can't do anything about he said i haven't got the time i'm busy doing this i'm busy doing that any chance you could get over there well i have to tell you this was right at the very beginning of when i started doing things i didn't really know what to do any uh so anyway like an idiot I said yeah of course I will I'll give her a call see what's going on I called the lady ring ring ring ring lady answered I said oh hello it's Dave here Kevin's asked me to call you oh Dave I'm so pleased you called me oh thank goodness can you come and help me I said oh hang on hang on a minute I said well I don't know you know what do you mean help you what's going on well bearing in mind that this was either july or august so we're at the peak of the summer sunny day very hot she said i'm standing here in my front room she said i've got a coat on a hat boots i've got the central heating turned up and i am freezing and i can see my breath i thought oh that's a bit unusual i said well how long's this big going on oh dave she said we've had all sorts of trouble she said my little boy oddly enough his name is michael um this body was um obviously a jamaican family but from many many moons ago so they're you know english if you like english you're making and uh anyway lovely family so she said something and michael she said my boy uh he keeps getting attacked i said what do do you mean attack oh he gets thrown out of bed and oh he said it's really bad really bad and then she said that my my daughter she's just doing finishing her a levels and she said and all of her works vanished you know she's working it's gone and uh as you can imagine by now on my brain sort of going out 15 different directions and as I emphasize again this was the first case actual case like that I've never been asked to go on so what the heck do I do oh I know I'll ask Sheila and Dave from Healing Hands their experienced people if they will come with me to see this lady spoke to them yes yes they said that would be good but we'll do that so anyway I telephoned the lady back and I thought well let see what I can find out so I said to the lady you know how are things at the moment Oh she said it not good it cold I said, and Michael, I said, I wanted to find out a little bit from Michael, you see. So I said, is this Michael indoors? Oh, yes, she said he's upstairs. Oh, I said, any chance you could call him down? So I wanted to double check that I wasn't speaking a load of nonsense, obviously. oh no she said it doesn't matter he's got a phone up in his room she said i can just um pass you over to him oh okay so next thing oh hello little voice michael i think he went seven maybe eight something like that hello i said hi michael my name's dave how are you oh i'm okay and uh anyway i got chatting with him about little bits and pieces and uh i know nothing about football but I said to him you'd like yeah oh yeah he said I've got the best football down the road he said all my mates he said we play football with my ball and he was obviously this was obviously one of his best possessions it made him head honcho you know and anyway I said well Michael um so you basically so I'm trying to run this through my brain again I said and how are you getting on how you feel it yeah okay i said okay michael hand me back to your mum he goes back to mum i said um i think we'll need to come over and see i said but this cold thing and everything i said michael it doesn't seem to bother him too much she said no she said um it's just that one thing so i said oh can you pass me back to him i'll have a lot of work hello i said oh michael yeah i said can you tell me something michael yes yes he said i said do you get any friends visiting your house oh yes he said i said oh who are they oh he said there's the two boys and he said and there's this uh red-haired lady and there's the victorian girl oh hang on that michael i said victorian girl i said as you know i see because he was obviously quite young oh he said we've seen pictures at school and he said and i said a red haired lady yeah i said tell me michael do you know have you noticed some people have light skin and others have dark skin i says the lady with the red hair she got light oh no no she's got light skin okay i said is she um anywhere about yeah he said she's uh she's in the room now i said oh okay i I said, could you wave at her for me? Yeah, he said, so he gives a little wave. Obviously, I couldn't see this. And he's giving a little wave. And I said, what's happening now? Oh, he said, she's waving back at me. I said, could you ask her then if she intends staying for very long or if she's going to actually be leaving? I don't know. I can hear him talking. no no she's um she's not going to be staying very long but she's going to stay for a little while okay right oh geez this is so complicated so anyway can you put me back to your mum okay put some back time obviously you can't hear what i'm saying to mum i said to his mother look this is a bit extraordinary i said could you hear what he was saying from downstairs she i could hear She said, I don't know these people. She's the two little boys. That's his friends he plays football with. She said, I'm sure of that. But I don't know of any red-haired lady or Victorian girl. She said, I don't know. So it would appear that Michael actually couldn't tell the difference between the living and the dead. They were all the same to him. So I suddenly thought to myself, I have got a natural here, an absolute natural. This is amazing. Can you put me back to Michael? yesterday so anyway back to my yeah yeah i said yeah it was a nice little chat enjoyed that i said can you do something for me yeah what's that i said i want you to imagine and this is the old thing that we all use a white light in the middle of your house still tiny white light and it gradually spreads out wider and wider and wider and so all of the house is lovely and bright and I said and while you're doing that I want you to imagine the place getting warmer can you do that yes I said I can do that and blow me he did and I guys I've got even this is doing my brain now to mention it again off of his tongue and anyway so I put me back to mum how is it oh I don't know she said it's warmed up in here yes she said so anyway I still thought to myself, well, this really is OK and it's great. Michael has got gifts. He's got some people who have been in this game long enough to know that. And he did have gifts. But the point being that we still hadn't got rid of the problem, the main problem. So that was it. So Sheila and Dave Spoon and myself and my wife, off we went to Croydon, met lots on the door. Oh, come in, come in. We'd like a cup of tea. very friendly old chatty very nice little family turned out that in the house there was the mother there was Michael and there was the older sister that I mentioned earlier who lost her paperwork or A level stuff so anyway I said what's been going on with Michael she said there's still things happening I said oh god can you sort it out I really don't know but we'll have a look so anyway my wife went upstairs and she went into the room where the daughter was. She was sort of keeping it out of the way for whatever reason. I've no idea. And then we went up into another room and we were sitting upstairs and I'm looking at Sheila and Dave and saying, are you picking anything up, you know, as you do? Well, picking something up. And I thought, yeah. And I said, I think I'm picking something up as well. But can we see if we can pull it in and see if it's this, old lady sort of thing anyway we tried and tried and tried but she wasn't having a bar of it i have to recap a little bit now because when i was on the phone previously i'm just cutting back to a little bit of the story the first time when i phoned her i was speaking and michael made the place warmer i asked the mother do you have any pictures of your mother because she seemed to think and she surprised me she said it's me mum she said i hated my mum she's awful person really hated her she said in fact the children don't even know she existed i've never mentioned them to mentioned her to them so anyway i said do you have a picture of her oh she said maybe somewhere tucked away up in the loft i said any chance you could get it okay i said i'll phone back in five minutes give me a chance for a cup of tea i phoned back a little bit later and i said um did you get the picture yes yes she said i found one i said okay what is it and it turned out it was um a wedding group uh in back in jamaica and there must have been thinking about at least 30 people in the picture so i said can you get michael to look at that picture and because obviously the lady that we were talking about, the nasty lady, the mother, she was in the picture somewhere. So she called Michael and he came and she said, oh, have a look at this. And I said to Michael over the phone, can you see anybody in the picture that you recognise, Michael? Oh, yes, he said. You mean a nasty lady. I said, can you point to her? Yeah. OK. So I said, pass me back to your mum. I said, is he pointing? Yep. She said, that's, he said, that's, oh my God. Back to the visit now. As I say, there's a lot to this story. So anyway, what do we do? We're back there. We're trying to pull in this old lady to try and get rid of her, but she was very strong. She wasn't having a bar yet. So let's go downstairs and see what's going on. So we're downstairs. Mum's in the room. Michael's in the room. I'm in the room. my wife, Sheila and David Spooner in the room. And I thought, well, what on earth do we do now? And suddenly a little bit of inspiration, don't know where it came from, I said to Michael, can you see, is that, you know, you mentioned a nasty lady. Yeah. I said, does she a lot? Is she around? He said, yeah. He said, she's standing in the corner, pointed at a corner. Oh, blimey. So I'm looking there. Obviously I can't see a thing. I said, OK, Michael, can you do something for me? Yeah, what's that? I said, I want you to stand up and imagine you've got the most beautiful bunch of flowers in your hand. Can you do that? I said, really beautiful flowers. Yes, he said, I can do that. I said, I want you to take them over to that lady, give them to her, and tell her that you love her. OK. He goes in the corner, I love you. I said what's happening now Michael oh she said he said there's a man coming oh I said does she recognize oh yeah she seems very very happy that the man's coming I said what's happening oh she's going she's going with him they've gone so that was how we ended up clearing the house of this elderly lady it's an amazing amount of times that love comes up beginning to sound a bit corny now but it's true love fills everything but it just goes to show doesn't it well the thing is as well on the way back in the car I hadn't seen my wife all night she'd been up in the room all this time with the girl and I said to her you didn't seem to be around oh yes I was up there she said it was really strange I said why is that she said well the girl is absolutely terrified she said because when she looks in her mirror quite often this old lady's face will appear in the mirror and tell her to kill michael so that's another part of the story that's uh yeah anyway there you are that's um that's me waffling on i could go on for several more hours you did just great david tell us about the essex ufo and paranormal group yes okay we meet every first friday and a month at the belmoral center in west cliff uh we provide uh teas and coffees and that sort of thing absolutely free and basically we're all we're a decent little bunch really real good friend friendly people we get lots and lots of different people turning up over time and obviously if anybody wants to come along if they've got something to share that's fine if they just want to sit and enjoy the speaker that's fine and yeah so first friday in every month at the balmore center and you'll find us very welcoming and very friendly this friday we also have a website essex ufo and paranormal oh and we've gotten out the month afterwards not this month next next month in march we have andrew collins andy collins uh coming along and he's very well known from megalithomania and all that sort of thing and he's actually been a friend of ours for years and years i remember him when he very first started out uh yeah well god was the long hair and the leather jacket he's got a rather nicely tailored suit respectable looking haircut wonderful yeah so anyone any of our listeners out there who are in the surrounding area of essex and they certainly do pop by and you do investigations so anyone that has things that bump in the night definitely get in contact with you yeah that's fine what i'll do is i'll put all your links down below for your for your website you've got you've got facebook as well great stuff david interesting i must admit i went to a spiritual church probably right back in the night is i think i came across a copy of psychic news and i was interested you know because you know when you are involved in the paranormal you kind of do everything don't you you know reach around and see what's out there and yeah i did go to a couple of um meetings at the local spiritual church and sit in with a couple of circles so i do know what you're talking about there ah well that's good yes it's very interesting isn't it it's like you literally do enter i'm sure another dimension it's this kind of feels that way did you do any trance work no not really and and to be honest yeah the only reason i never went back is is just purely time or anything else but it was interesting and they were lovely there you know a lot of them a lot of old biddies there you know well do you know well that's very funny you should say that because when i were first with the healing hands that's exactly what i was expecting oh it's going to be like loads of old biddies yes there were a few old biddies but it was quite a mixed audience actually and one thing i did notice over time i don't know if you went to many but the mediums were quite large ladies and they always seem to wear very loud floral dresses you couldn't miss them you couldn't miss them in the dark you know i mean i went there one night and uh i walked in the door and as i walked in i was a little bit late there was a medium on a platform with another lady and this lady's drawing away, drawing away, and I sat down, and media was going to people, giving them messages, and all of a sudden, the lady that was drawing away, come down off the platform, straight to me, bearing in mind, she'd already started before I got there, she said, I've got a picture of your grandmother here, and it was a picture of my grandmother, it was not like my grandmother, I've still got the picture, actually, it was my grandmother, and And that, I mean, when you see things like that, another one of this woman was chatting to her, and she said, oh, I'm a bit concerned. I think you've lost your bike. No, no, she said, no, I've definitely haven't lost my bike. Oh, she said, oh, I've got the gimmicks I'm getting ever so clearly. No, she said, I've definitely haven't lost my bike. All she didn't realise was that she'd come there on her bike, and when she went out, the bike had been stolen. And when you see things like that, you think, wow, you know, that is absolutely everything is one that's why that's my philosophy everything is there is no separation everything is one everything is one indeed yeah I must admit the couple of meetings I went to there was always obviously people that go there after just losing someone so they wanted to connect with the spirit that way and also people which probably dabbled in the occult a little bit via like a Ouija board or something like that and then they were having problems so they'd go for advice that type of thing. Yeah, we've been on plenty where they've dabbled with the Ouija. That is something that they should not do. I don't know why it's so bad, but it is bad and I wouldn't allow one in the house, that's for sure. Or in anybody's house, if I was saying it. I think it's because you're young. Most people, let's face it, we don't do it when we're 50 years old. It's the sort of thing you do when you're a teenager with your mates, isn't it? It is. and I could tell you lots of stories about Ouija balls good stuff David good luck good health and be lucky David I really appreciate you coming on and sharing all that for our listeners it has been interesting yeah okay all the very best great stuff David take care of yourself sir and we will speak soon okay bye bye bye bye for now bye well that's all for this episode keep updated and connected with the show on X, Facebook and Instagram and if you have an encounter that you'd like to share on the podcast you can email me at ufochronicles at gmail.com or you can reach out to me via the contact page on my website ufochroniclespodcast.com A big thank you to David for sharing tonight and thank you all for listening. I will be back next week. Till then, stay safe and keep watching the skies. Goodbye. Thank you. Thank you. Starting a business can be overwhelming. You're juggling multiple roles, designer, marketer, logistics manager, all while bringing your vision to life. 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