NFC North Offseason Chat w/ The Paul Farrington Show!!!

20 minutes a day 365 days a year this is the pack a day podcast what's going on Packers fans Vikings fans football fans sports fans maybe Lions and Bears fans Welcome into Behind Enemy Lines, a collaboration that the New York Times called fine. I am joined by Robert Ziggy Ziegler and of course, Paul Farrington of the Paul Farrington show. Of course, Andy Herman, Packaday podcast. Excited to chat all things NFC North. We're going to be going over sort of a NFC North preview today. Like I said, a little bit from all four teams. We're going to spend some time figuring out the Vikings quarterback stuff. We'll talk about what Green Bay needs to do in the offseason. And then again, little bears and lions as well. But before we get there, Paul, Ziggy, it has been far too long. How the heck are you guys doing? It's doing great. Doing a lot better now that now that we get to hang out with you again, Andy. We were just saying it has been way too long. Ziggy and I are trapped in snow here in the East Coast. I'm sure you are as well in Green Bay right now. We have none, basically. We have a little leftover, but no major snow at the moment. I was just telling Ziggy, he got more snow in the last like 48 hours or whatever than we got all winter so far. So we're sitting pretty right now. Yeah, we're getting dumped on right now, but it has me dreaming of warmer weather days. Yeah, I totally feel that. How are you doing, man? It's nice to be in the offseason. There's about a month before the Minnesota Vikings can let me down again. So send in the dissertation, live the life, enjoy the good things while they come. Love it. Love it. Well, it's great to be back catching up with you guys. I want to start. First of all, how are you feeling about your offseason so far? First of all, I should, I'd be remiss not to say condolences from the Packers family to the Vikings family, the Rondell Moore situation, absolutely terrible. You know, the, just the exact last thing in any form of life, but certainly not what you want to be talking about from a football conversation standpoint. Yeah. Just a brutal situation. And you know, obviously prayers and condolences out to his family and Vikings family as well. Yeah, no, exactly. You said, I echo it too. It's sad. The Vikings have had a lot of these situations. I mean, I know there are different situations, right? But like the Vikings have just had a lot of tragedies lately. It's hard to watch, but we're hard to read about. But yeah, obviously right there with you, prayers out to the Moore family. And that was very nice. Well said. No, I appreciate that. Obviously no easy way to transition off of that. But let's start with the Minnesota Vikings. And, you know, just kind of how have things gone so far? You know, you got to keep your defensive coordinator. That's good. Your general manager is gone. That's interesting. And a quarterback is still definitely a top of conversation. I'll let you guys start anywhere you want. Go ahead, Ziggy, jump into it. I mean, this seems like a really bad year to be in the market for a quarterback, right? I've tried to cook up a lot of different situations for the Minnesota Vikings, and it's not clear what you're supposed to do. You can like go for, you can run it back with JJ McCarthy and say, look, we know he's only played like 25% of the games he's been eligible for, but this time it'll be different. He'll get bigger. He'll get stronger. he'll get better that doesn't sound great you can get somebody old like joe flacco or russell wilson or jimmy garoppolo which doesn't excite you you can try and convince daniel jones to come back coming off an achilles tear but he already didn't really want to be in minnesota you could go for like malik willis and offer him 20 million dollars a year you can trade for tua who gets to play in a dome but there's not a lot of good options for the vikings and it does not make me feel super excited entering into free agency. I don't know what they're supposed to do. Yeah, the biggest, obviously the biggest story for the Vikings is quarterback and, and what we're going to do at that position. Um, but yeah, to your point, bring back Flores was a massive win. We did a live reaction show after that, um, or after the news broke that he was pretty much back, right? Um, that was, that was great. And, and Quacey, another one where we did a live reaction, it seems like that's may get a little ugly as we continue moving forward with the the breakup there but um you know it was just something that i didn't expect happening when it when it did when the news broke i thought he had made it through the the dark period where where maybe he would get canned and uh what was so concerning about it andy is the vikings gave off this public perception of being such a tight-knit you know team and organization and even when you saw quacey and o'connell interacting and videos it always seemed like it was a very like kumbaya, like kind of a happy environment. And the more stories that comes out, it's like, okay, like if it's unraveling from the top there, then players are tweeting out when Darnold winning the Superbowl, right? I think the off season, while we have had a big win in Flores, beyond just the major question marks, the Vikings have at the QB position. It's like, okay, like this is the, how, how shaken is the foundation here given everything that's happened in the past month and a half. And that's something that Kevin O'Connell is in charge of fixing over the next few months. So that is another big thing to me. It's like this team that you thought was very well put together emotionally seems to be a little unstable. Yeah, that's a huge, interesting aspect to me is just kind of where it goes from this. I was talking to somebody the other day and, you know, we were kind of commenting on all the NFL teams. And it's a good reminder that there's dysfunction with every single NFL team. And it's just like, where is the level of dysfunction within the team and the organization? And some, it's just really bad and you can't. Oh, did I cut out? No, I can still help. Yeah, you're good. So yeah, what level of dysfunction is there between, you know, there's the Browns level of dysfunction. And then there's like, you know, you get to the top, obviously Seahawks, things are going great. Even the Eagles, you know, like they've won what two Super Bowls in the last, what, five, six years. And then, you know, now they're, you know, seemingly at a level of dysfunction again, with a year of complete dysfunction in between the two Superbowl wins, which is insane as well. So yeah, there's always a level of it. You never know exactly when it's going to strike, but it did seem like things were pretty buttoned up. And now you have no GM technically, and you've got this huge off season, you know, and some of the quarterbacks that you didn't mention Ziggy, you know, the Kyler Murray, you know, Ty Simpson, you know, Aaron Rogers, like Tanner McKee. I don't know. Geno Smith. Like there's a lot of options. None of them seem great at the moment. I kind of think sorry to interrupt you um I was just I kind of think as I continue to talk right I I kind of think that Rodgers and Murray are the two guys that I am really paying the most attention to Andy that you just mentioned where Aaron Rodgers is a nice he's a nice bridge that you can have even if you want to give McCarthy another year to kind of figure it out and that's a weird route to go down after what after playing him already but if you feel like the team's competitive and can win right now out of all the quarterbacks you mentioned a good year rogers would probably be the best opportunity to win while kyler murray he's a he's a situation where if you bring him in it truly feels like a battle between him and mccarthy for who's going to be the quarterback probably moving forward it's hard to see jj winning that job back from kyler if kyler were to play well so what i think it all comes down to is what direction where does kevin o'connell currently see this team does he see them as a team that's ready to win right now in which case you probably want to go get someone or are you willing to be a little patient which the vikings haven't really been and it it just backfired horrendously when they thought mccarthy was the guy so i i think first figuring out your identity is a good start for minnesota what i i got asked this in a live show the other day what is the percentage chance that a former packers quarterback is a starting quarterback at some point this year for the Minnesota Vikings. It's basically Malik Willis or Ann Rogers. I don't think, you know, Taylor L. Gersma or Brett Hundley or anybody else is running through the door. I don't think Favre's coming back. So it's just, it's just Rogers or Willis, but it's an interesting percentage either way. What did you put Ziggy? I think it's pretty low, honestly. I also think it's very low. Aaron Rogers is not coming to Minnesota. I know that's the headline story. That's what people want to talk about. It's not going to happen. the Vikings are not about to spend $20 million or more a year to get Malik Willis. Like they're not handing the Justin Fields contract to him. That's just not where the Vikings are at when they're already pressed on cash. I have a hard time seeing it being a Packers quarterback next year. I put it like 5%. I think that's exactly what I said. That's exactly how I answered the question was 5%. Yeah, it seems too unlikely. Though Malik Willis is an interesting candidate, right? If you were to throw out the guys of like, who's going to make you, who can get you a little excited? Malik Willis would have me more nervous than excited. But the flashes that he showed for you guys last year, if you string that together over the course of a season, we're talking about one of the best quarterbacks in the National Football League. So there's absolutely intrigue. And I'd imagine he's going to get an opportunity somewhere to at the very least compete for the starting job. and that's mind-blowing to me from where he was coming into green bay and it's really a testament to the packers development i guess malik's individual progression but i i'm shocked that we're talking about malik willis like this in 2026 all right we're gonna do a vikings rorschach test for uh i want to on a scale of zero to 10 skulls uh 10 being the highest zero being the lowest i'm gonna give you a quarterback name and i want you each to react how many how many schools you would give it if they were the starting quarterback this year for your week one and just through the entire season basically uh jj mccarthy you go first siggy and these i'll go after you two schools two schools i'm i mean i was out on jj mccarthy like week four last year and i haven't seen much to change my mind i'd probably give it i'd probably give it five or six goals like it's it's jj mccarthy is my guess who will be the quarterback and i think he should have another year to see what he has i'm just not i don't really think it's gonna work out uh max brosmer negative infinity skulls like i'm going three skulls we won a game with max brosmer having negative passing yards if you have those kinds of leadership qualities you can do anything he's a gamer i i i like max brosmer the person but if max brosmer was our starting quarterback i yeah negative negative infinity i guess if max brosmer was our starting quarterback that meant that something happened to J.J. McCarthy's because he's not beating. So that can't be good. Never mind. I'm with Paul. All right. Kyler Murray. One school. I don't think Kyler fits what the Vikings want to do on offense. I think he's very expensive. It means we gave up some draft capital to get him. I don't think the Kyler Murray connection to Minnesota makes a lot of sense. I might. I might not make a lot of sense, but if Kyler was our starting quarterback, you could probably get me up to seven schools. I would be excited with Kyler Murray as the quarterback. It would probably go wrong, but I know there's a baller in Kyler Murray, and we've seen it before, and can O'Connell bring it out of him? At this point, it's been a while since he's played really good football, but it's hard not to get a little excited if Kyler Murray's their starting quarterback. Kyler's probably the one that, as a Packers fan, would make me the most nervous. Just if like, if somehow O'Connell got Max Kyler Murray, like that would be like, oh, that's a, that's a problem. That's a pain. It may, maybe it's not like Superbowl or high end playoff worthy or whatever, but that's a pain to play. So that would probably be the one that would be, you know, give me the most concern. I think. All right. Gino Smith. Zero scores. I'm going, I'm going four. I'm not on zero. Gino Smith, the Raiders destroy anybody who enters into their organization. It's just what happens of the exception of Max Crosby. I still think he can play football. I think he fits into the offense. If they can get him cheap, he's one of the better options. I think I'll move up to five actually. But what are you excited about Ziggy? That's I'm excited for competency, Paul. I, but I don't want, if you have Geno Smith and you have competency and you win seven or eight games, it's like, that is the worst possible place. Without competency, we win seven or eight games. You guys won nine games with zero competency last year, basically a quarterback at least. yeah i just don't expect to have that level of defensive performance again the way it was i mean we basically beat detroit what six turnovers there also a little lighter towards the end of the season uh schedule wise like i i just geno smith to me would be the perfect mediocre quarterback for us to be mediocre and i i'd rather i'd rather be terrible with jj like mccarthy comes in and we win three games, that'd be better to me than winning eight with Gino Smith. The one thing about, um, about Gino that it would be kind of, at least again, if I were near shoes is that it would feel like it would be like a fair legitimate competition Not like you like if you bringing in Kyler like Kyler the starter right Like it feels like if you bring in Gino like McCarthy could legitimately beat him out but you have now another option just in case things don't go well. Gino also wasn't good last year. That's, you know, it would be a terrible offensive line and not great web. I mean, you have Bowers, I guess, but that's, that's a really bad situation. Yeah, it is a nightmare. You got to give him a little slack there, but no, Gino Smith would be zero schools for me. I would not be happy about it. All right. Anthony Richardson. Oh, I was an Anthony Richardson believer for so long, but at this point, isn't Anthony Richardson, just JJ McCarthy, but with more bad games of football, he's hurt all the time. He doesn't seem to grasp the basics of the position. He doesn't seem to be able to run the offense, but it is Anthony Richardson and he's bigger, stronger, faster, JJ McCarthy. So I'll go three schools. Yeah. If he was our starting quarterback, I'd probably give it four. But if you just brought him in, it is funny. Like any quarterback you mentioned here, it's just going to be a circus no matter what you do with the Vikings this offseason. Anthony Richardson would really be like, oh, the potential of this locker room right here. The stories you'd be hearing about Richardson and McCarthy having just these unbelievable battles and training camp days would get Vikings fans so excited. We'd think we're winning the Super Bowl. I guarantee you if we had Anthony Richardson and J.J. McCarthy, during training camp, I would come on one of our shows and I'd say, I think we have a chance to win the super bowl. That's how much people would hype it up. Here's what I want. I want a Richardson McCarthy where McCarthy is in the huddle for the first play. And then in the meantime, O'Connell is coaching up Richardson for play too. And then, you know, after McCarthy runs his play, Richardson runs on the field, McCarthy comes off and now, you know, O'Connell has a huge chat with McCarthy to what's going to happen on the next play to give him exactly what he needs. And they just alternate every other play combined they they form the voltron of mediocre quarterbacks well you know what's funny andy about mccarthy and richardson is someone was saying the other day to me the seahawks were getting or i'm not the seahawks i sam darnold was getting so much praise during the super bowl run of you know his his perseverance and people believing uh believing in him right in the 49ers and the vikings even when he was failing pretty much and then we go back and look at J.J. McCarthy and all the Vikings fans are saying like, oh, how can we give up on Sam? And 10 games into McCarthy, we're like, oh, career's over. And Anthony Richardson has been hurt a lot. Yup, that's concerning. Hasn't played that great since his rookie season. But he's another guy who, if Vikings fans want to talk about giving people second and third and fourth chances, we're not doing that with J.J. after year one of him starting. So I think that it's funny how the conversation kind of is warped around these guys of, oh, we believe in the guys who succeed and come back. But then the guys who are currently in the process of needing people to believe in them, it's like, oh, screw those guys. Like, why would I ever want them playing for me? And it makes sense how it happens. But it's just, it's funny how the mind works there. 15 starts for Anthony Richardson, 10 for J.J. McCarthy. So just a five-star difference, which is kind of crazy. Kirk Cousins. We'll be right back. So I remember the very first time that drinking hit me differently. I was drinking responsibly the night before, and we had young kids at the time, and I woke up with my son crying in bed and just didn't feel right. It was a very harsh reminder that after the age of 30, even responsibly drinking alcohol will make you feel less than 100% the next day. 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For a limited time, our listeners are getting 20% off their entire order by using code PACADA at cheershealth.com. Just head to cheershealth.com and use code PACADA for 20% off. After your purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them that PACADA sent you. I want to believe this is a two-scolar for me. There's not a lot of high numbers here because there's not a lot of chance I'm getting excited. Kirk didn't look great last year. He continues to get older. He continues to get less and less immobile. Like Kirk Cousins is not really a player you think of as someone who's 38 years old. But he's quite, he's old. He hasn't been good for a while. I can't get excited about Kirk. And he blew us off at the draft. And he blew us off at the draft. One score. One score, Kirk Cousins. No, I put it as well. Aaron Rodgers. Ten schools. All the reasons that I said I was out on Aaron Rodgers last year, I'm still out on Aaron Rodgers. I do not want to deal with it. But at least if he's going to be a quarterback over the age of 35, he's been really good at some point. So I'll give that three schools. Ten schools. 100%. I think with Rodgers, there is a Super Bowl window with Rodgers. It's a tiny, tiny opening. But if Rodgers comes in and it would just be fun, like it's undeniable that that would be incredible offseason and in season content. Content, it's a hundred out of a hundred. Vikings fandom, I think you'll be frustrated sooner than you think. But I could be wrong. It would also be something I just think, you know, from a Packers fan standpoint, I don't want to see. I don't want to see him in purple. I had to do that with Brett. Yeah, no thanks. But as from a competitive standpoint, it wouldn't give me other than he'd be super motivated to get his 32nd team win against the Packers. I need to have two shots to do it. That that would definitely be something as well. All right. A few more Malik Willis. I'm going for on this. I Malik Willis, if the Vikings believe in him, maybe he could play. I don't know how he fits in the offense. I don't know how he could handle a whole season. I don't think Malik Willis is anything, but if they believe in him, I'm willing to give it a shot. Yeah, I'd go three skulls. I, I like Malik. I think he's a great backup quarterback to have. And I hope he gets the shot somewhere. I just don't want my team to be the team giving that shot. And if it works out, you're talking about what 26, 27 year old quarterback who could be really good for a handful of years moving forward. But we have enough question marks around our QB already. All right. Joe Flacco. Zero. I'll give it one. He gets one skull. He'd be a nice mentor for J.J. McCarthy, I think. I mean, Joe Flacco has said he doesn't care about that, but. It is telling that of all the quarterbacks you've listed, I've given one 10 and one seven. And the 10 is 42 year old Aaron Rodgers, who if he even decides to play, says he'll go to the Steelers or Kyler Murray, who has just been all over the map over the past handful of years. it really is a it's a bad market uh the two last interesting ones uh mac jones ziggy likes me i'm not in on mac jones at all yeah i was zero okay derrick car four it's probably four i don't think car would be very good but i'd he's someone that i'd find a way to talk myself into it i i believe um but it's been a while it's been a while and he wasn't that good the last time we saw him i'm i'm a little bit puzzled by the derrick car talk this is still a guy who last year retired because he didn't want to go through more surgery on his body like the team wanted him to i mean i'll give it a two he was okay sometimes with the saints but i don't want to trade for him i don't want to give up draft capital for him i don't want to pay him 30 million dollars i was there anyone oh god oh no god andy i was gonna say is there anyone else in the jimmy garoppolo russell wilson tanner mckee trey lance i don't know anything else any other names that i missed that would be of interest i'd give mckee a four i'd be interested in seeing what he could do no i have no interest in tanner mckee despite what philadelphians say about him um and when they're writing tanner mckee should take over for jalen hurts at the eagle like i just i have no interest um i would the way i'm viewing this whole thing is my what i think is going to happen and probably what i would like to happen outside of rogers is jj mccarthy will be the starting quarterback next year if the the name is not aaron rogers or kyler murray i really don't want to see them be the qb that's kind of my my or unless you know you want to start talking Joe Burrow, Lamar Jackson trades, then you have my attention. But Rodgers would be fun. I think Kyler Murray could work out. Tua would be the only other guy. Yeah, maybe they could have success with him, but that would probably fall apart in the playoffs. Other than those three, JJ would be my... And I'm not even sure if I'd rather have those guys than JJ, but those are the only three names that I'd want to even entertain. I forgot one. Ty Simpson. i'd rather have garrett nussmeyer than ty simpson straight up yeah i'm not a ty simpson guy all right there we go so i don't know i don't know we all learned from this i guess rogers uh or murray for um you know for paul and and ziggy who was the highest grade that you gave i think it might have been tanner mckee uh but i think what you learned is i think that the situation is bleak and the vikings are screwed fair enough yeah there's a lot of there's a lot of question marks. I mean, obviously the Vikings have problems beyond quarterback that they need to address, but it's what you, what we were talking about earlier. They, they did win nine games last season with a, you know, a broken team in many ways, the offensive line being juggled around a lot, uh, the quarterback clearly being the big issue. So it feels like they're, they're close to being really competitive, but you're going to need to have one of those kind of classic Vikings bring in a QB and they have a, a, a wonder year. And that's what they're trying to avoid. that's the whole reason they went with McCarthy over Darnold and it feels a little weird to break like after making the decision to go with JJ after one season saying nope this failed let's go back to who who we were before so I think the best decision is probably just move forward with JJ and give him another chance it'll be interesting either way before we move to Packers like what what's your one other kind of overarching big you know picture thought for the Vikings this offseason the one thing that you're really keeping an eye on or you think is most interesting for me it's we have got to figure out the secondary harris cornerback was a huge problem last year harrison smith he put together an incredible year but i don't think he's coming back which leaves a huge hole at cornerback and a huge hole at safety and with the way brian flores plays to some extent you can get away with that but it wasn't good enough last year and even with the guys leaving on the defensive line and that needing some replacement the secondary for the Vikings is a huge huge problem at every position yeah and I I was gonna say interior defensive line but you could you could you could say either one cornerback we got lucky that Murphy and Isaiah Rogers were healthy last year too we didn't really have that many injuries in the secondary so it's the defense while they were unbelievable it's easy to see a world where they regress pretty quickly if if uh grenard or van ginkle um take a step back right at the edge rusher position that becomes a little bit of a problem and you're hoping dallas turner can take a step forward uh but yeah the secondary has been an issue cornerback specifically has been an issue for the vikings for a long time and right now you like murphy and rogers but you'd like a little more depth there and and who knows with losing harrison smith athletically he's not what he used to be but mentally you can see the impact he has on the defense like just if you run the all 22 footage right like you see him pushing literally pushing people into positions on certain plays that's another dude that you're going to have to make up for um at least from the leadership standpoint as well is the nfc north it has to be i can't imagine it's not is the nfc the worst cornerback division in the nfl what is your what is your three starting cornerbacks from the nfc and so i would say like Jalen Johnson, Byron Murphy and like DJ Reed, are we, you know, is, I don't know who else is in the conversation. Keyshawn Nixon. Oh God. Yeah. No, that's, that's not happening. I mean, I guess, I mean, if you wanted to play like Brian branch in the slot or something, you know, that, that would help things out, I guess, but yeah. Can we start pulling safeties and seeing how they do the safeties are all are great It an unbelievable safety division overall but the corners is just a nightmare Yeah I think I think that would have to be that would have to be it Right Johnson I mean unless you want to play around with Nashawn right Like, yeah, he's a free agent. Yeah, free agent. I mean, he had a good year, but he also got torched a handful of times. Like, yeah, I'd probably go with the three guys you said. The I'm just trying to look right now. So the highest rated PFF grade for Detroit is DJ Reed at the 45th, 45th ranked corner. Chicago is Tyreek Stevenson at 39. Green Bay is Keyshawn Nixon at 38. And Minnesota is Isaiah Rogers at 19. So 19, Isaiah Rogers was the highest graded PFF corner in the division last year. I don't know. I don't know how much individual games impact PFF, but he did have the perfect grade at one game. Oh, crazy. All right, let's move to the Packers. I want to start by asking you guys, what was your thoughts on Green Bay keeping Brian Gutekinds, Matt LaFleur, and then as an aside, also losing Halfley and bringing in Jonathan Gannon as defensive coordinator? Go ahead, Ziggy. Okay. okay um i i thought well congrats and congrats on passachi i don't know we don't celebrate firings or anything like that but you know he stepped down so he didn't even get fired sorry there's no way he was fired sorry step down sorry step down um but congratulations on that for i know packers fans are probably happy about that you again don't want to target any individuals but i guess we're kind of doing that right now um lefleur i thought was a a win for you guys i know a lot of Packers fans voiced their opinions online, but the majority seemed to want Matt LaFleur to stay. It was one of those situations we see with social media where, you know, I guess you could say the louder minority seemed to be taking over. And with LaFleur, you guys have been so successful over the years. We went back to, in our conversation, what would make me happiest as a Viking fan? It would be if you moved on and honestly insert a little instability to the organization so i thought you had a great win there jonathan gannon obviously he's a good coordinator he had a lot of success in philly loaded roster there i didn't like a lot of his head coaching decisions um you know i didn't like the way he handled the demarcato situation last year against the titans thought that was bad he's got a little bit we could use some coaches punching some people here and there honestly that might not be the worst thing yeah right with jay or alexander punch keishon nixon in the face after a boneheaded play like Hey, well, we, you know, we're open to it. I'm imagining when Jair Alexander walked out as a captain, he just pulls him back, his sucker punches him. So I think Jonathan Gannon has a little bit of, you know, building back up that he needs to do. And you're, you guys obviously have a lot of talented players. It's a place where he could do it. And I would bring back Gukunz too. I thought all of that was handled well from the Packers, from my point of view. Ziggy? I mostly agree with Paul. The one thing I am going to be tracking, though, is Jonathan Gannon runs defenses pretty different than Jeff Halfley, right? Especially, I mean, Jeff Halfley was not a big cover for guy. Jonathan Gannon runs cover for maybe more than anyone in NFL history. So seeing how in the first few weeks the Packers adjust to that, we'll see how the schedule comes out. But if I were a Packers fan, I would want to see some weak offenses those first few weeks. what the defense started adjusting because the first like half of a season of a new defensive coordinator can be pretty tough yeah if we could get the vikings week one that would be ideal it would just be fantastic to get that that easy win right off the bat and go against a not great quarterback it would just yeah it would really you know set things in if you had the vikings in lambo in week one you would probably beat the crap out of us again yeah yeah who knows i mean i don't know our best quarterback performance last year was week one and it was all downhill from there. You don't want first game, fourth quarter, JJ McCarthy. Oh yeah. I forgot about that. It would be beneficial for you as well, because you know, you've got all the major players coming back from injury. Micah unlikely to play week one or even week two, three, potentially four. Uh, you know, I think Zach, Tom Tucker craft are going to be back. I think Devante white's going to be back, but you've got a lot of guys coming off of major injuries. So week one is not a bad, bad week to get green Bay. If you guys get it on your side, it's amazing how many guys you have coming back from injury. I always forget. I don't forget about too often, but like thinking about how much talent there is in Green Bay coming back, it almost feels like you're adding them in free agency or via the draft to give you an extra boost there from what from what you were at the end of the year compared to where you were, what, like week three or four of last season. There's so much talent returning to the roster. What could the Packers do this off season that as Vikings fans, it would give you the biggest fear, the biggest, like, Oh God, like not that like in the realm of realistic, like they don't have a first round pick. They can probably make one, I would say probably not like 20 mil a year sort of signing in free agency, but I think they could sign like a 15, 16, 17 per year, a kind of free agent. What's something that they would do? It doesn't even have to be a specific player, maybe a position they would target. Is there anything that would be like, Oh, that's a pain. if we're looking just at next year for me the biggest thing that would make me worry is if they get to keep some of the starters that are going to be leaving right there's a lot of important players for the Packers who are leaving Romeo Dobbs could be leaving Quay Walker could be leaving Rashid Walker could be leaving and while those players had ups and downs in Green Bay all of them have been pretty important during their tenure if the market's depressed for some of those guys right teams decide they want to draft wide receivers the tackle market doesn't go quite how some people think it wouldn't they get to come back at a reasonable price i don't think there's any like a plus mcxavier mckinney style free agency additions for me the story of the packers is who are they going to be able to keep in the building and i want that to be as few of their productive players as possible and that's a that's a nice thing for that's a nice thing for a viking fan to be like yeah the the worst case scenario is they bring back their guys like that's yeah go ahead andy you were saying no just because i think she'd malik willis and romeo dobbs are gone for sure i think those three are foregone conclusions quay sean ryan and kingsley nigbari are the three that if the price comes down and the price is right that i think that they would consider bringing back but i think i think all three will test the market and then kind of see where they're at. But yeah, I think they definitely want at least four of the comp picks too, because they're going to need it with no first this year and no first next year. And then they can kind of, you know, potentially cancel out two others with, you know, if either of all six of them sign elsewhere, or if they bring two back or they bring one back and sign an unrestricted free agent, but I think they're going to want four of those comp picks. Yeah. If I were looking at just trying to draw up hypothetical world worlds, right. If you guys brought in another ad drusher, like I don't, I don't know. What's your cap situation right now? Yeah. Again, they can probably sign one pretty significant free agent. I would say, you know, maybe one like kind of cut player somewhere to like, you know, five to $8 million deal. And then it's going to kind of be that minimums after that. Like, I guess if you if the worst one might honestly be if you guys somehow ended up with Linderbaum, like that would be that would be one world where I'd go like, all right, that's that's a great addition for them. I don't think that's really on the table so much, but Linderbaum would probably be taking a bit of a pay cut there. But if you got an elite center, that'd be like, oh, wow, they got one of the things they really need this offseason. I don't think it'll be Linderbaum, but I do think Connor McGovern from the Bills and especially Cade Mays from the Panthers, the two next centers are probably very of interest for Green Bay. Cade Mays is probably kind of one a on my list of free agents that I think, and he's fine. He's not great. He's fine. But he's kind of one a on the list of targets that I think green Bay could actually have real legitimate interest in. Yeah. And that's why it's not really a, a sexy thing to say, right? Like, Oh, if Packers get a center, I'm not going to be super happy about it. So for the thumbnail, we could just be like, God, if they trade for Max Crosby, I would, I would be really upset about that. But there's just Packers question, question question yeah yeah that thumbnail and we talked about for 10 seconds right here um that would probably be it if they landed one of the the centers there um or went after an edge rusher and uh and he wound up having a nice season opposite micah the thing about the packers is just they don't sign a lot of free agents jason fitzgerald from over the cap put out a really interesting study a couple of days ago where he looked in the past five years team signing free agents over $2 million a year, right to discount the minimum free agents. The Packers have signed nine in the last five years. There's only one team even remotely close to that in the Ravens. And they pay guys a lot when they do. They try and bring in the best. But you compare this to teams like the Texans who have brought in 59 of those free agents in the past five years, you just can't count on the Packers doing a lot in free agency. They sign cheap guys, they fill out the roster. But important roster spots on this team are never filled, almost never filled by outside free agents on big deals. Just talking about this with justice Mascada yesterday, the Packers don't live in the middle class of free agency. They either go big, you know, a big time free agent signing, whether it's Jimmy Graham, that did not work. Adrian Amos, Zedaria Smith, Preston Smith, Xavier McKinney, Josh Jacobs. And these two didn't work out last year, but Aaron Banks, like Reese, you know, was a huge guard contract. And Nate Hobbs was top tier slot corner contract as well. So they either go big or they are just like, we'll sign McCall Hardman, Devin Funchess, Sammy Watkins, um, you know, those type of, you know, Isaiah Simmons, you know, those type of one year kind of vet minimum deals. They really stay out of the middle class of a free agent contracts. You know, someone, I wouldn't want you guys to sign Tyreek Hill. If you wound up with Tyreek Hill, I know that he's coming off of major, major injury, locker room problems at times. But that would be one where if it flashed across my screen and said Green Bay signing Tyreek Hill, I would go like not happy about that. I've got good news. I think you're safe. If they if they sign a super small, especially because already fitting Jaden Reed and Matthew Golden in the same Matt LaFleur offense that doesn't like small receivers is like kind of difficult in and of itself. Adding a third would be just you'd have to basically completely reinvent his offense. I'd be very surprised as well if it happened, but I wouldn't like to see that yes i was a little surprised andy i was reading a an nfl.com article just about you know offseason needs a couple days ago and for the packers they said finding jordan love a wide receiver one was the biggest fix for the packers and i was just like what is that really yeah it's not does that is that even like where does that rank to you even on the it's not it's non-existent they'll lose dobs and like they're they're gonna go with the top four wide receivers this year of Watson, Reed, Golden, and Dontavian Wicks with Savion Williams, a third round pick from a year ago as their fifth. And they'll probably draft somebody on day three just because next year, I'll expect Watson to get a contract extension. Watson, Reed, and Wicks are all unrestricted free agents. So I expect them just to try to get ahead of it a little bit. So that's going to be their wide receiver core. They're not going to do anything outside of that. Dobbs is going to be gone. But you also have Tucker Craft, who's going to get a huge contract extension. You have Josh Jacobs in the backfield. Like they are not, they're not searching for weapons and maybe just maybe they can actually get third round pick Marshawn Lloyd healthy for any period of time this year and actually get to see him a little bit too. But either way, they're, they're not lacking for weapons. Yeah. I was really surprised to see that to me with green Bay, it's get five guys you want across the offensive line, right? Settled, which I think you feel pretty good about most of them. You'd still need to figure out your center. Where else, where else on the line are you? Are you looking anywhere else? you pretty good. It centers the primary one. I think Aaron Banks and Anthony Belton are going to be your guards. And I think Jordan Morgan and Zach Tom are going to be your tackle. So they need depth. They could probably use some competition maybe, but centers the one right now that unless they re-sign Sean Ryan to be that guy, they, I mean, Jacob Monk's not going to be at, they need a starting center. Ellen Jenkins likely cut. So yeah, that's, that's the big one. Yeah. So it's like if it is, if the offensive line is figured out and I'm assuming you're going to target that to me, it's just all about the defense and getting the defense ready to go. you have Gannon coming in like all the question marks that I have about the Packers are pretty much on the defensive side of the ball and what's it going to look like it helps starting with Micah Parsons there um but that to me it's like if you're thinking about what's going to hold back the Packers from winning a Super Bowl next year it would probably be something on the defensive side that would stop them because I I believe in Jordan Love and and I think they're they're good to go offensively we'll be right back so i have a question for you andy about the defense yes so this is something people in our comments have gotten into a lot um the packers clearly they don't have the guys they need on defensive line and it seems very likely rashawn gary's going to be gone if the packers can target one of the upper level players in free agency at either defensive tackle or defensive end which do you think is more important for the team to go after the the there a mixed answer defensive tackle but there not a defensive tackle in free agency that sort of fits what they need. Not a high level one. The defensive tackle class in free agency is pretty brutal. Like John Franklin Myers is the best and that's kind of not what they need. They kind of need a big guy because Devante, and we also don't know if they're going to play three, four or four, three yet, which I've forever just said, I don't care because it's a nickel league, but now we're getting back into more and more base defense because of all these two and three tight end looks. So it actually matters a whole heck of a lot more, but either way they don't need the three technique type. They need the run stuffing defensive tackle, which they just don't have after they traded Kenny Clark for, for Micah. So the answer is they need that more, but there's not a great answer in free agency and potentially via trade either. And they don't have a draft pick until round two, which a lot of the big guys that are really good are going to go before that. So that becomes a bit of a problem. And then I think they can find better edges. It's a much deeper edge free agency class, but you don't need a starter. You probably like somebody who can start weeks one through four while Micah is potentially on the PUP list. But LVN and Micah are probably your guys. Sorrell and Colin Oliver are probably going to be your four and five, but you do really need a number three. If Gary's gone and you lose Enigbari, you kind of need, and you want to cover for injury too, you kind of need like one more starting caliber player. So defensive tackle is the answer, but I just don't think there's a great one in free agency for them to target. You're not a DJ reader guy. No, I mean, he's, he's an option just because he might be the best. I mean, it's what's him and Tonga out of new England. And those are the only guys I can even think of. Yeah. You know, Rankins from the Texans is a decent option. You know, I think Ashaun Robinson for the Panthers is going to get caught. He's not great. Like it's just, there's not, there's not good options. You know, big guys, we, we saw it last year and you guys did it in free agency with Hargrave, like the defensive tackles went off the board in free agency fast and with major contracts. And then in the draft, like Alfred Collins, who was expected to go later, goes like early, mid second round. And the Lions defensive tackle they drafted in the first round was expected to be early, mid second round. And they draft them no questions asked in the first round. Like they just flew off the board in both free agency and the draft. And I'd expect something similar, even though it's not a great class in free agency for defensive tackles. i mean you're looking at who's winning the super bowls right now right and they're dominating up front they're dominating inside and it's it's a priority right now yeah like it's you know leonard williams this year is unbelievable and jalen carter has been jalen carter still is one of the most baffling like i i understand why he dropped but it was like yeah i still just can't believe that he fell into philly's lap can you imagine if chicago had stayed there and picked jalen carter and they had him on the D line. Like, I don't want to think about what a whiff. Again, I guess it depends what your morals are as far as drafting. But yeah, I mean, what a whiff right there. Well, that transitions us storylines and Bears fans. We probably have to go a little lightning round here. But for the Bears, let's start there. What's just kind of your 1A thing that you're looking at? I'll just say for me, if they upgrade their pass rush in a significant way, that to me is like, oh, crap. because that was the one thing. Their secondary needs work. Don't get me wrong. I think their defense in total needs work. But if Austin Booker is kind of going into your season as him and Montez Sweat are your top pass rushers, I don't have a ton of fear there. And so if they would somehow finagle their way into a Max Crosby, which I don't think is likely, or a Trey Hendrickson, which I don't think is likely, or just somebody that can upgrade that pass rush in a pretty significant way, that would be like, oh, this is a real problem. yeah it all starts and ends to me with that that edge rusher opposite of sweat and Crosby is the one where I've seen you know Danny Parkins has been on TV the Bears fan on Fox like they're pushing that like yeah we'd love to have Max Crosby come over and I'm reading more articles on hypothetical trades that is the true NFC North offseason nightmare is for Max Crosby to end up a Chicago Bear I don't think it can really get any worse for the NFC North as a whole the other three teams unless if the joe burrow vikings dream that we have came to fruition which is basically zero so to me it's like crosby to the bears is the please god don't let this happen um and other than that you know like hendrickson goes there he's a really good player i think he'd have a great impact um but that to me is the one i'm just like please please don't let this happen it is sort of amazing that we're sitting back here though and the bears like don't need to fix their offensive line assuming ozzy trapillo can come back and play well they need they need a left tackle to start the year at least like that they need they do need a left tackle yeah but it's been a decade of saying the bears need five guys on the offensive line to play functional football and now it's like well maybe they need a tackle for the first month yeah yeah they need to go after there um and you mentioned the secondary too though like they do have i'm trying to make sure i get this right so jaquan brisker kevin byard nishan right and gardner johnson are all free agents so like there is there's a lot of work to be done on the back end for chicago um big time filling in roles there so like that that is a spot where if you're a bears fan you could feel great about where the team is right now it's like if you have that many secondary questions at the very least is a little concerning the the vikings are a million percent the team that's proposing that you can trade first round picks further outright. So you can make that mother load Joe Burrow offer. We're going to offer you 10, 10 first round picks for, for Joe Burrow. We don't care about two 20, 27 through 20, 37 here. Have all the first round picks bring us Joe Burrow. If you could do that, the Viking, I actually think you could see a world where the Vikings trade. Realistically, I could see them trading five or six first round picks for Burrow. And then immediately injuring himself and being out for the year is what would probably happen. Oh, well, I don't know if you've heard my prediction for that, Andy, but if Burrow was a Viking, we'd lose in the NFC championship game in horrific fashion. And then the next September, he would tear his ACL. That's my prediction. I'll accept that, especially if it's a loss to the Packers in the NFC championship game. Let's make that happen, too. Really quick, Detroit Lions, quick thoughts on them. Offensive line, get it back to where it was. Last year, they were the worst up front that they've been in a long time. That was the identity of the team, right? It was, we're just going to be tougher than you. We're going to out-physical you. And when you saw that breakdown without Ragnow and Zeitler, the rushing attack in some games, which was Gibbs and Montgomery's Goose-Getz wasn't there at times, but even more concerning is Jared Goff seemed to take a pretty big step back. So they need to figure out that interior of the offensive line. And if they don't, then it's going to be hard to see them getting back to who they used to be. and Decker might be gone too at left tackle. That's another one. He's, I think he's kind of retirement, but they might cut him if he doesn't retire. Like that, they are a shell of where they were a couple of years ago, where, I mean, you lose a rag now. And then if you lose Decker, the guard, the ratledge was not great last year as a rookie and he can certainly get better, but it was, he didn't fear that offensive line in golf. It's just so important for him to have a really good offensive line as it is for every quarterback. But yeah, that, that to me is a, he could potentially be a huge Achilles heel for them. But don't forget, I mean, Aiden Hutchinson is obviously great, but right now they don't have anybody to be on the other side defensive line. Muhammad's a free agent. Marcus Davenport is a free agent. Like the best player to go opposite Aiden Hutchinson on the roster right now is Tyler Lacey. And that's probably not going to cut it next year as good as Hutchinson is. So both sides of the line for the Lions need huge work very quickly. Lions fans have to also be sitting back this offseason going, can we please stay healthy this year? Can we please, please just, it doesn't even need to be across the board health. Can we not have every single defensive player get hurt? Like it's, it feels like it's been two years in a row now. It has been two years in a row now where they have been wiped out from injuries. And I think that that's another thing. Like, you know, is it going to affect them again? It feels unfair to say that, but it's been two years of being brutalized. And two years ago, you may have won the Superbowl if it didn't happen. but it's just amazing how quickly things can turn and Detroit I have a feeling next year at Detroit we're either going to see a big time resurgence or you know the start of them starting to fall off or continuing their decline like I don't know if we'll see a middle ground for Detroit next year feels like they're kind of make or break point with a few things I could see them taking a step back I just yeah I think it's really tough to kind of keep that that going where they're at but if they make some sort of major swing and fix the offensive line uh yeah they could be they could easily be very good again they still have a lot of really talented players yeah but they'll be close one way or the other the nfc north should be a lot of fun like it is to me right now probably the best division in football right the west is probably you just have one really crappy team in arizona but then you've got san fran the rams and see i mean seattle or seattle and the rams was felt like the super bowl last year in the nfc championship game and that they're in the same division so i would still put them pretty high but it's between it's between the two for sure yeah a little more power at the top of the nfc west um but yeah it's a full division like it is i think it's the most fun division to be covering right now so i feel lucky that we're talking about them all i totally agree all right any final thoughts before we get out of here any any offseason you know anything that you guys want to go over before we head out it's it's exciting that the vikings have the the quarterback is like you know that's the big question like that it does make for an exciting it makes for an exciting offseason but it does it does just suck that we're going through this again and i feel like until that gets sorted out there are other things right that we could have talked about with minnesota but it's it's looming so large just one it's the quarterback position but two the way it's gone down that I can't wait for them to just make the decision and start building from there. Because it's just like, it feels like they're caught in this loop right now. Like, all right, just commit to McCarthy or whatever and let's move forward. That to me is what I'm looking forward to. You know, it's exciting having Jordan Love as a starting quarterback. Oh, I bet. I bet. Yeah, I would. We're sitting back here with these other NFC North teams saying if they can just get one or two positions right, they could be a real contender next year. And the Vikings, it's like, well maybe with geno smith or kyler we can go 500 hey we're one position one position away just one position away from being a contender it's it's it's a it's a tough position to fill but it's just one position well as of right now we're what we're probably like a couple weeks out and maybe eight years away from having jordan love making his decision to become a minnesota viking so So that's what I'm excited for. Yes, when we do have Jordan Love. Where are the Minnesota Vikings plus 5,500 in the Super Bowl odds right now? That is what? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22. But if you look right after us, there's a huge drop off. You are right. The New York Giants are the next team, though. You never want to be a Jace to the New York Giants, whether there's a drop off or not. You're between the Giants and the Falcons. that's where you guys are at that's a bad spot wait one one very quick question andy would you rather be like right now if you could be a fan of one of the two teams moving forward would you pick the giants or the vikings giant oh for sure giants they have yeah they have the quarterback that scadaboo is fun neighbors is fun for sure giants yeah yeah that sucks and dual carter's really fun so yeah you've got brian burns like yeah imagine they don't like go to say quater xaver mckinney and still have those two going for him like this time last year we had 14 wins and Sam Darnold. And now we're saying I'd rather be a fan of the Giants. Not a great time. Not a great time. I appreciate you guys a ton. Thank you so much for hopping on and doing this. It was great catching up. We'll have to do it again, maybe post free agency or pre-draft or maybe a bit of both. Tell us where we can find all of your incredible content, guys. Yep. You go over to the Paul Farrington Show on YouTube at Farrington Show on social media. We got a bunch of clips coming out. Yeah, pretty, pretty easy. Just type in Paul Farrington Show. go follow him Farrington show on YouTube. And of course at Farrington show over on social media, you can find me at Andy Herman NFL. And of course the pack a day podcast, we'll get together soon in the near future. And we look forward to that. Uh, we appreciate you guys for joining us today, but until next time, and as always you do your school thing and I'll say, go pack. Outro Music