Trump Threatens to WIPE OUT Iran and Triggers 25th Amendment Calls (ft. Katie Phang)

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Is it just a handful of autocrats want to be dictators like Trump and Orban and others that get to divvy up the world. Is that it. I mean it's so to me frustrating that we just have these very small men with very big dreams with very powerful weapons that are carving up our world. Welcome to Raging Moderates I'm Jessica Tarlev and today I'm very lucky to be joined by attorney and host of the Katie Fang show on the Midas Touch Network. Katie Fang thank you for coming back. It's been a while. It's been too long and I figured if there was anybody with whom I could spend the end of day as way there would be Jess Tarlev so I'm happy to be here. I was thinking of that what was that movie a friend for the end of the world. Yes that is totally I don't even know you know it's like is it wrong for me to be laughing shouldn't be laughing but this is just absurd like you just kind of have to like chuckle your way through it right. I guess so or until 8 p.m. when we see if something actually happens or if it's another round of taco. I've been calling it Taco Tuesdays Taco Tuesdays. Kind of perfect. Okay all right I'm going to set the table because we already got to the conclusion but in case you hadn't noticed President Trump is warning that a whole civilization could be wiped out if Tehran doesn't open the straight-of-form moves by his deadline of 8 p.m. tonight set your calendars your alarms whatever you need to do and a social media post just hours before that cutoff he said a whole civilization will die tonight while still holding out faint hope that something quote revolutionarily wonderful could prevent the strikes. Trump's also threatened to decimate Iran's bridges and shut down its power grid moves that could constitute war crimes Iran for its part is vowing crushing and extensive retaliation of civilian infrastructures hit and despite a reported ten point proposal from Iran to end the conflict seems like there's no sign of a breakthrough before tonight's deadline let's watch this clip from Trump's presser yesterday. The entire country could be taken out in one night and that night might be tomorrow night. Short clip but to the point um what do you think is going to happen this evening. I don't think the United States is going to annihilate the people of Iran I mean doesn't that kind of defeat the whole purpose it's like you you want the people of Iran to do something revolutionarily wonderful but then hey we're just going to take you all out in the same stroke I just I do think it's a taco Tuesday I do find it to be alarming though that again we can chuckle through a taco Tuesday where you have a man who has the control over the nuclear codes saying that he's going to eliminate an entire country in one fell swoop I find it to be remarkable more so that there is are there there literally no adults ever left in this administration I mean you you look at what he posted on Easter Sunday of all days of all days to post and then you look at I listen I and I know that used to work with him but I don't think Pete Hexeth is ever going to reign in Trump Pete Hexeth's bloodlust I think exceeds Donald Trump this is uh say what you want about Pete Hexeth's show oh go yeah now we're so there's no morality there's no caution there's no discretion there's no measure in Hexeth so I mean if there was ever anybody who was I think like the chef's kiss match for Trump when it comes to having an appointment like a cabinet appointment like the secretary of defense it was definitely Hexeth but what's more crazy the fact that Trump posted what he posts and says what he says or the fact that somebody doesn't stop him from doing it and somebody doesn't tell him to take it down or people don't quit over it I mean there there has to be an off ramp to the loony tunes moment that seems to be repeating itself day in and day out but I find it also very upsetting because this is not just a United States Iran thing we've got Israel involved we have other countries in the Middle East region that are involved and so it's you know one life lost is one life lost too many and what upsets me is that we're just gonna watch the day come and go and then people are gonna wake up on Wednesday morning and he will not have bombed around into the stone ages and then we're all just gonna kind of move on I I'm kind of at my end on that tolerance level I think yeah I think that there are bridges that we are crossing um that because of the deluge deluge I should say of information all the time delusional deluge yeah the delusion old deluge that we're not really taking stock of the fact that you're talking about a country with over 90 million people on it yes right this is no small threat and I'm not sure how seriously Iran takes it I mean their social media would indicate that they know that this is a mean game more than a bombs game and we should note that at the same time that this was going on there was another U.S. military attack on Karga Island which appears to be more of a double tap than something new it was just us Israel was not affiliated with this particular move but that signals a very different approach than we're going to bomb you into the stone age right that's more targeted and about the oil and I keep going back to I guess two things one about the adults in the room I think that general Kane seems like an adult in the room even though he always gets pushed to the side and ignored in the press conferences like when but yesterday Kane disappointingly was kissing his ass like that was you always have to kiss the ass no no no I I I think that there has to be why because then you're going to lose your job and I think that people who serve in these capacities and have the chance to rein it in when it actually counts if it looks like public flattery but they have some sort of moderating force in there versus another version of a Hexeth coming up like Dan Driscoll as well the one that Hexeth is so concerned is going to get his job if he does get pushed out as the secretary of defense I can handle some ass kissing in a press conference if I know that the situation room isn't just Donald Trump Steven Miller and Pete Hexeth that's how I feel but that also presupposes just that Trump will listen to Kane and that Hexeth will listen to Kane what I heard yesterday from Kane was our dear cult leader commander in chief is so amazing and and what I what what disturbed me was Kane saying this man as in Trump delivers on his promises and I understand he was talking in the context of rescuing our downed service members which I want to make clear the the level of heroism that is involved from people in our armed services right now is stunningly amazing and I don't ever want to sound like I don't support our armed services but I when Kane says something like this man keeps his promises then you couple it with what we're seeing I get very worried about Kane giving any accolades to Trump he could just get up and he could deliver the information that he should be delivering to the American people that we're not really getting from this administration and instead the flattery is very North Korean it's very gross I hard pass I don't think that's a part of your job requirement sure but like it is part of your job requirement to survive this administration and does he need to like does he have I don't know do we need a situation room that is in Mar-a-Lago and it's Donald Trump, Stephen Miller, Pete Heggeseth, it's next to the buffet brunch yeah I know 100% there's a black curtain up for some privacy there are Apple watches everywhere with it with an Apple watch right and there's not a legit general insight so I'm going to take the ass kissing general okay versus that alternative but I understand your standards are perhaps higher than mine and maybe I'm a little conservative media coded and how I'm looking at this no but maybe I'm not being realistic and I understand but I do think aren't we at a moment just where we are literally living on the extremes like I feel like we live on the edge of the like we are 100% living like on the edges of everything and if we are living in that extreme land and I feel like the extreme would be if Kane doesn't agree then Kane shouldn't be there and I don't mean like I wanted them to have green khaki uniforms versus blue I'm talking like this is wrong everything I'm seeing is wrong or it's too gray we're too in the gray on this one I'm not comfortable I feel like it's the imprimatur of credibility that makes me worried by somebody like Dan Kane okay um halfway towards where you are and I wanted to talk about JD Vance who seems to be playing more of an interesting role than I expected in this so he's in hungry to campaign for Victor Orban which deserves me on a whole host of other levels but apparently he is a lynchpin of these negotiations and the Iranians think that JD Vance is the right person to be talking to do you think that there is a chance at all of some sort of diplomatic resolution I understand why the Iranians want a real deal versus a 45 day ceasefire and they've looked at the example of what's going on in Palestine for instance and said like that's not going to be good enough for this do you think that there's any shot at this or like how does it end I guess well I do think and I wanted to make sure that I could speak intelligently about this I find though the quote end of Israeli strikes against Hezbollah and Lebanon being a non-starter for an end-end and that's why I understand JD Vance if you could take a beat and stop kissing Victor Orban's ass long enough to maybe help the United States end an unconstitutional and an illegal war that would be fantastic but then doesn't JD Vance have to consult with BB Netanyahu to get his green light on any deal I feel like it's a very it's a thruple is it not it's Iran US and Israel it's not just us in Iran and this thruple is getting very crowded and it's a lot of you know energy here and I just don't know if the US could actually make a deal without Israel blessing it or however that would go oh I think that that's completely correct I'm not saying that this is the deal that will get accepted but it is interesting to see at least a pullback of some of the more outlandish requests at least of the United States like giving up you know US bases in the Gulf which was obviously going to be a non-starter for us I don't know maybe I'm just too glass half full about General Kaine and the chances of there being some sort of resolution but I like to think that it is possible and I and I do find JD Vance to be an interesting player in this because he was siloed then he became a focal point then he was siloed again and sent out like he was on the campaign trail talking about prices the only one acknowledging that prices were up now he's in Hungary and could be the point person on a negotiation like it's an odd place for a vice president to be so what I do find to be even more odd is JD Vance is very publicly backing an autocrat in Hungary right it is a it is a foregone conclusion Orban's looking at some serious trouble so they had to call in the reinforcements by way of JD Vance why is Trump not there I don't know is there some protocol where the president doesn't travel internationally when he's illegally in a war I have no idea but Vance being there openly backing an autocrat and the shift that Orban does some would say is pretty bad like what Iran does to its people right like in terms of the Iran Revolutionary Guard etc right well I'll say old school Iran footnote apparently we did do this for regime regime change which everybody denied in this administration from day one because you really can't be going in for regime change without congressional authorization for shit but I guess now the latest excuse according to this pressory yesterday was we've successfully achieved regime change which again nobody ever said what was the plan the purpose or the goals behind going into this war but isn't it so funny then because diplomacy ends up being a weird thing does it not just because how do you define that is it just a handful of autocrats want to be dictators like Trump and Orban and others that get to divvy up the world Putin and is that it because sending Vance as some type of emissary to resolve this because when you look at something like Israel has to stop strikes on Hezbollah actually Hezbollah is bad so you know maybe we shouldn't have Hezbollah or Hamas right but why why that shows Iran is also not necessarily operating in good faith so do we really have a regime change right I mean it's so to me frustrating that we just have these very small men with very big dreams with very powerful weapons that are carving up our world and that is why you're looking at Vance who's just a yes man he's never going to say anything that's anti what Trump wants because that defeats Vance's own purpose you're not going to get it from Hexeth you're not going to get it from Rubio you're not going to get it from Gabbard as long as she lasts right you're not getting it from Cain per se although I'm not privy to the confidentiality of those conversations you're not getting it from allies because the allies are meeting without the United States to figure out a way to open the Strait of Hormuz in a way that will not decimate their global economies and the United States again thinking that pulling out of NATO makes sense because he's pissed off he didn't fucking get Greenland I mean this is how out of the world these conversations are but I don't think Vance is necessarily going to have an original thought going into any of this I don't think he's going have the negotiation skills that is going to land this plane oh I didn't say that necessarily the skills though compared to Steve Whitecoff who didn't even understand what an enrichment proposal actually looked like where's Jared well I think Jared and Steve are plane hopping I guess around the region or maybe they're just in Miami looking for new real estate investments is that what we're looking for Gaza logo still on the way but some of the criticisms that you just brought up we actually are also hearing from Tucker Carlson and I wanted to play a clip of him for you this is a mockery not just of Islam it's a mockery of Christianity to send out a tweet with the f-word on Easter morning promising the murder of civilians and then saying praise be to Allah without explaining any of it you are mocking me and every other Christian because we're Christians we can't support that that is evil that is an intentional desecration of beauty and truth were you surprised to hear Tucker going that hard no not surprised almost relieved in a way that somebody actually was standing up for Christianity on Sunday because again no one around Trump is the adult to tell him Mr. President we don't post stuff like that on Easter Sunday and we certainly don't use an f-bomb on Easter Sunday whether you're a Christian or not there is a decorum that is lacking which ironically I think it was the Iranian embassy of Zimbabwe that posted about what presidential decorum is supposed to look like but no I wasn't surprised happy to see that somebody actually says that I don't I agree with Tucker Carlson as like my hair lights on fire that's not what you do but is he more angry about the the post the truth social post and the fact it happened on Easter Sunday or is he angry about the fundamentals of a man who should not have control over the nuclear codes threatening what he's been threatening which by the way today was annihilating Iran but we've had this in days leading up how we not just we've had the threats against desalination plants power plants nuclear plants bridges isn't today supposed to be bridge day it is bridge day right it's Tuesday and power so yeah what and power plant day I mean this is war crime day let's just call it war crime day because that or is it going to be war crime Wednesday because he talk about on Tuesday and then roll it into Wednesday who knows but I was glad Tucker Carlson said it and the power behind Tucker's voice as we know is he reaches a lot of people now the question is are people more angry about a bad truth social post on the holy of days of Easter Sunday are they mad about Trump spending one to two you know billion dollars a day um on a war that nobody really wants us to be in despite what Trump says if you aren't already make sure to subscribe to our YouTube page to stay in the loop on all political news okay let's take a break stay with us from Iran to Venezuela to China what is driving president Trump's foreign policy both Russia and China are big losers if there's a transition in the nature of the of the Iranian government which again is why I think we have to see this campaign through I'm Jake Sullivan and I'm John Feiner and we're the hosts of the Long Game a weekly national security podcast this week Trump's former national security advisor HR McMaster and deputy national security advisor Matt Pottinger join us the episode is out now search for and follow the Long Game wherever you get your podcasts hi everyone Kara Swisher here we just won the webby award for the best interview show in news business and society and I've had some great guests on my podcast on with Kara Swisher here are some you don't want to miss Tristan Harris the co-founder of the Center for Humane Technology I talked to him about his biggest worry when it comes to development and deployment of AI hint hint it has something to do with the CEOs and how they stand to profit I interviewed documentarian Louis Theroux his latest documentary into the mannosphere focuses on the incredible and horrifying influence this group of individuals has especially on young men and boys and recently I caught up with Katie Couric Amy Laraca and my brother Jeff Swisher to debunk some of the fads and misinformation behind the billion dollar wellness industry and we talked about the important medical tests that are actually worth your while all of these conversations are available now you can find them on youtube or wherever you get your podcast and we've got plenty more lined up for the summer so be sure to subscribe to on with Kara Swisher to catch them all I want to tell you about a new podcast from box called America actually it's hosted by political journalist Astad Herndon who I love the show asks the question what will America look like after Donald Trump better happen Trump's been running a one-man show for over a decade but we're heading towards the first open presidential election since 2016 and it'll play out in a country that'll feel very different America actually digs deep into the questions that you and your friends are asking about politics culture and the economy it'll map out the people and ideas that'll shape the future beyond Trump you can watch America actually on the box youtube channel and listen wherever you get your podcasts welcome back what I'm curious about I guess most of all with like what Tucker Carlson is saying and then even some of the criticisms coming from Megan Kelly who then went back and said like I'm voting Republican no matter what right like they could you could drop a nuclear bomb and I'm still voting Republican so how serious is some of this purported flipping or dissatisfaction with Trump from the Tucker Carlson's of the world because you know Tucker is primarily motivated by clicks and dollars right like that's how the outrage machine works absolutely but I do think seeing someone who is more of a pop culture figure than certainly a religious figure um oh because gosh forbid the pope actually call us out for what we're doing right gosh forbid the actually man closes to God you know he's kind of the authority is he not on what God would be thinking here and he said this is not working for you um but yeah I agree sorry to interrupt but yeah I mean he is a more of a pop pop culture figure than anything at this point and the Christianity angle is a little bit different for him I mean that's stuff that you hear from you know evangelicals who couldn't abide by Trump from way back in the access Hollywood tapes you hear this from Democrats making that criticism about you know what Christianity is actually about you know helping the poor helping immigrants you know everything that James Talorico etc is talking about and so it did feel either like a very strategic maneuver because there are more dollars to be made if you go with this angle or that there is something actually brewing and then by extension um and I want your legal mind on this there is a lot of chatter about the 25th amendment now and it is not just Democrats that are doing it um I hate to just like pelt you with clips but Alex Jones like someone who also needs the dollars but he was going off about this as well so let's look at him yeah how do we 25th amendment is ass the problem is to get the 25th amendment harder than impeachment you have to get two thirds of the house and two thirds of the so what do we do tackle Trump uh and and pretend let him pretend he's president and publicly uh report that he's going through a health issue and vance takeover it literally needs to be something like that it's that bad the I've known you a long time you've never called for a internal coup before ever ever but that's how dangerous this is that's how risky it is for the yeah and I was the Democrats I'd stop poking Trump and messing with that only makes it worse like you guys need to watch out what is going on yeah yeah I'm like I mean I'm not going to take advice from Alex Jones as a Democrat as to what I should and should not be doing um an internal coup fascinating I find it to be a plot of a really good Netflix series right like let's put a kind of like the Melania has like a staged Melania right let's put a I really how do you get what's the casting call for the fake Donald Trump Jessica really what is that going to look like like the Timothy Chamolais in Washington Square Park yes right um but but so you post a fake Trump um who's going through a health thing but he's really just bound and gagged in the situation room in the corner and we don't let him out but Trump already embodies the crazy uncle in the closet anyway energy so I kind of fit that I guess that works you just shove him the closet um look Alex Jones again is the clickbait guy as you said with Tucker a lot of it is performative I also think with something like Tucker for the record he did say um I still love him no matter what he says about me that's what Tucker said about Trump right Alex Jones is interesting though because I find impeachment and section 4 25th amendment I've said on my own channel these are not mutually exclusive goals Jeff you can have it all why limit ourselves to the crumbs of just impeachment you can pursue section 4 25th amendment I actually think JD Vance has it in him to do this and I posited yesterday on my show that the reason why is it is ironically the fastest and the most constitutional way for JD Vance to get into the oval office which we all know is endgame for JD endgame is oval and instead of having to wait until 2029 to do so as he thinks he could do it now in the throes of 2026 maybe help the republicans in the november midterms by having new blood fresh face and somebody's not going to hit the fucking button to end the world in nuclear war jade advanced could get there by way of section 4 you know section 1 is trump dying again a possibility but right now section 4 is an option I just don't know if the cabinet it's the majority of the cabinet level executive department officers that has to help JD Vance get there it can't just be JD on his own so let me be very clear not only is the threshold of votes from both chambers high but in even order to get the mini deposing of Trump in the meantime you need JD Vance and the majority of the cabinet level executive department officers and I just don't know if Hexeth Rubio and others are gonna have the energy to do it so if it was just JD I think this would have happened before now I also think that part of the reason why there are no adults that are curbing Trump is a JD Vance palace intrigue kind of thing I think people know that if Trump steps in and enough then maybe some people would support the idea that this effort is crazy not crazy like a fox but just fucking crazy and that's why Vance would be the appropriate heir apparent to what's going on I also think sending Vance on an international diplomacy thing like going to Victor Orban is also another kind of we're blessing you for a role I mean there's a lot of stuff that happens I'm sure behind the scenes about which we have no idea but I don't think it's a coincidence that Vance signed on as VP to Trump because Vance knew that there is a very real possibility that the 25th amendment by Hook or by Crook would get him into the oval. I that's so interesting that you think that because I mean it stands also in contrast to the idea that he couldn't even get a diplomatic solution right and he's kind of like the guest man that gets sent around and I know that there's a maniacal side to him like you don't go from Hillbilly allergy is Trump America's Hitler to I want to be vice president and have complete fealty to this man without their being. He is the epitome of Machiavellian energy Jess. I don't think it's a coincidence his wife is pregnant right now how great is it to have a young baby in the White House I mean come on it is like in my and I'm not a conspiracy theorist but I do believe that there were a lot of machinations that went into this just that was not just he would look like a good VP candidate. Well definitely Netflix bound right I want to ask you a strategic question that I want to talk to you about Timothy Snyder's theory about the defense budget and a coup that could be coming but firstly on the strategy so you just said we could have it all right you could have impeachment and you can have 25th amendment and as a democratic strategist and someone that has to live in a conservative media environment I've been really down on the idea of talking about this stuff because I think that why well I think that when people go to vote they look at their grocery bill more than they are listening to conversations about impeachment and the president and his allies and the Republican party I should say just writ large has been very successful in weaponizing our weaponizing okay right and there even Mike Johnson is out there saying if Democrats get in they're going to impeach President Trump now like don't tempt me with a good time right but there are a lot of people that are not interested in any more what they perceive as lawfare they're just looking to have health care that they can afford that's decent to be able to send their kids to a good school be able to pay for groceries and maybe get to Disney World. All of which has been taken away by the Republicans. Hundred I'm right so that that is my point so that message to me is one that resonates across all 50 states. But why can't we have why can't we do both like why can't we not have that conversation about the ask for more money for this war when people can't afford their gas or their health insurance or their chicken. I am I'm totally here for both conversations that one I guess just like my one A option and then my one B option because the Republicans and this has been a problem with Democratic communications since the Obama era we're not that good at it on a comparative basis and they are very effective in taking something that might be our one B or our number two or three or four or fifth point I mean they made an entire election seemingly about culture war stuff right where they're saying like they're good yeah war and war yeah exactly which had an economic undertone to it in the day them add but it still was very resonant with people. Yeah and look I don't just I agree that there has I think that the Democrats have historically suffered from a we have so many great ideas we want to put them all out there and sometimes that spaghetti on the wall theory doesn't always work right because only some things stick and some things don't I do think that there has been a very good move by the Democrats as far back as July of 2025 for the big bullshit bill to really frame the affordability issues in a way that all makes sense because Trump is really making it clear his one and a half million one and a half trillion dollar ask for military spend is going to hurt us in small business administration disaster response loan issues education housing healthcare low-income housing healthcare cancer research Alzheimer research I mean and if you know that the reason why he's doing that is to build up his military when he parks the military everywhere in every corner of your life especially vis-a-vis the elections it's because he had the money to do it right he built it up so big when he gives a boost like he wants to give in that 1.5 trillion just he wants to give the department of justice like 40 billion dollars or some shit like something crazy he wants to give cash freaking patelle of all people like 11 billion dollars that guy has no business having 11 billion dollars so if you think about how it's a literally stealing from peter to feed paul and paul's the only one who is living in the trump family because he's not doing it for all republicans to help them he's only doing is to help himself and his family and his billionaire buddies I do think the things have now become inextricably intertwined I think affordability and impeachment slash get the crazy guy out of the office slash we need better representation I think the democracy is a good thing I think those things can actually live together and not be fighting against each other I don't think they have to be yin yin on that okay and then by extension what do you think of our pal timothy sniders an amazing historian friend of the pod is putting out there about this budget that essentially it's a way to curry favor with the military so that when the time comes to hold on to control even after an election that says that you should be out that trump will be in charge still on a permanent or at least semi-permanent basis 100 and I think professor schneider knows what the hell he's talking about because he's seen it happen in history it's a it's a proven there's there's evidentiary proof that that that's how you do it it is no coincidence just that his very first appointment tromps very first appointment was who pete hexeth that was his very first one of all the cabinet positions it was pete hexeth the secretary of defense and there's a reason why tromp has also kind of superficially wanted the military parade for his birthday right like he wanted to be able to do that he has always wanted that type of intimacy in terms of his office and the military because in his mind he has seen other countries successfully stay in power because they've had military or for example revolutionary guard I mean you have people that are armed to the teeth loaded for bear that are there to serve only one now I would say and I think we started this conversation with me saying thank you as well as I appreciate our armed services um right now especially I do think though that is a gross gross miscalculation of our military I do think it and I do think that there are people that are not as public as maybe a dan queen and others that are stalwart defenders of my job was never supposed to be politicized my role as a soldier was never to serve one man it was to serve an entire country and that's why my oath has never been to the president of the united states but to the people right to the country of the united states and so I do think that if trump thinks boosting his military budget is going to make that much of a difference I think he's sorely mistaken well I I said it when it happened I'll say it again folks like Adam admiral holsy who left southern command when we started shooting those boats in the Caribbean those are the types of people that we need to be hearing from so that we can understand a bit more about the dynamics within the pentagon and what people are being asked to do in terms of violating their oath to the us constitution not to donald trump um katie fang always a blast to have you thank you oh thanks for having me just before we go another reminder the not only is raging moderates five days a week we're also available on substack subscribers get ad-free episodes which I know you all love live streams place to connect with me the prof g team in general which includes scott plus we had access to the new raging moderates newsletter the monday rage our first one was out yesterday did you like it find us at raging moderates at profgmedia.com and we've got our webby award for best news and politics podcast I'm 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