Conversion Therapy Might Be Back

This is exactly right. People who didn't do what John F. Quad wanted them to do, they usually disappeared. John of God was once Brazil's most famous spiritual healer. But in this limited series podcast, we uncover the darker truth behind his global empire of faith and fear. From exactly right and a Thundermedia, this is Too Faced, John of God. Listen on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Brief Recess, I'm Michael Fudd. I'm Melissa Malbranch. Today we're going to be talking about Stomach and Tiquities, all the weird things Melissa found out in a state sale, crazy conversations I had with a bouncer and JK Rowling. Oh, I hit four estate sales this weekend. It's actually an illness, you need to be stopped. I do not need to be thought, I love the state sale. There is nothing better to tell you something. And we could talk about, yeah, actually, I want to talk about this with you. Dead old lady clothes, dead old lady furniture, dead old lady jewelry. Because they really don't, because the blade stage capitalism, they really don't make it like they used to anymore. So like if you can get your hands on like a sofa from a sofa or a bag of rea pollstered. Yes, yes, yes. I've had a sofa for like three years and it's already, and I spent a lot of, sofas are expensive. They're very expensive. I think this sofa might have been like $4,000 or $5,000. Yes, and now it's a piece of shit. And it really is like, and that was, that was a, we really drained the savings to buy this five and sofa. And it's sagging and the fabric is weird and it's not like nice enough one where you would get a rea pollstered. Right. Yeah. Did you get anything good at the estate sale? Yeah. What did you got? Well, let's say goes to, okay, so Melissa goes to a lot of estate sales and. I do. It's a problem. But ethically she gets first and ethically we feel like it's in this gray area where it's okay because the animal's already dead. And it is vintage. It is vintage. I would never buy a new fur coat. No, I really wouldn't. The Swifties already hate me on the internet. So now that people are going to come from it, I'm always posting Taylor Swift Tate. She's a billionaire who's a crime at terrorists. So I don't know. Do you know what? And there are a lot of them. Well, I know. She's not the only one I'm critical of all of them, but I'm not going to like be like, oh, she does a step touch in her concert and has some like nice visuals. I'm going to, I'm going to lay off this billionaire. No. Anyway, sorry. That's weird. But the, but the pita people will probably come for us for saying that. But I think vintage fur feels okay. It does feel okay to me. And I mean, listen, I am more than willing to accept that maybe there's something that I might not know about this and if somebody wants to nicely come at me. We're open to suggestion. We are. I really, really am. I'm one of the few men who actually takes notes and like says, I'm sorry and incorporates it into his like work and life. Do you? Well, I don't know. I mean, my husband needs to say something else. And let the record reflect that Michael Charles foot filing a suit against me has never apologized to me ever. I apologize to you all the time. When? I don't know. I just felt like I should say that. Because he's not. He's a liar. I mean, my publicist on the phone getter on the phone. C.J. No. But you got good stuff at the estate. I did. I actually bought a shaved lambs wool jacket. I love that instantly. You're like, oh, I got all this great stuff. Like, you know, there was like sofas and like, oh, lady stuff. No, right for the first step aside. I also got a couple of like cashmere sweaters. Okay. That's great. No, no, no, I love it. I read an interesting article about cashmere. How like we have overbred sheep in such a way that cashmere is no longer what it once was. So if you can get your hands on a vintage cashmere sweater, it will feel different. So now, what we get, I definitely think that the, yes, I agree on that with the cashmere. So now cashmere is like one or two ply and it basically see through, which is why it's so, it's like relatively expensive. It's relatively less expensive than it used to be because the quality is different. Because now you can go to Blooming Dells and get a $59.99 cashmere sweater. But it'll be very thin. It'll be very thin. It's like linen also. The quality is not as what it used to be. Wow. And that's the, that's the, that's the, life and late stage capitalism. So those are the states I'll sound really fun. I went with my mother. Magally is out on the streets. Magally was out on the street. Tell the people in America what happens when Magally passes a car accident. So when we pass a car accident, I do my best not to look at all. Because a, I don't want to see any carnage number one. You can't unsee that. You can't unsee that. Right. Yeah, there's no one ringing that. There, you can't unsee that. But also I am aware that when you're driving past anything, you kind of slow down. Right. You can't help it. Right. You just kind of slow down. So I will almost speed up to go past my mother inevitably. I'm like, I don't want to see it. You just like, I want to see it. It's really like let me go. Let me, let me, did I ever tell you what I did tell you this story about my mother. This is really long time ago. We were in Haiti. And we were, we were, we were supposed to block this out. We were headed home. And there was a woman, two women and a child walking up the hill. And then the kid. And the kid started to run out into the street. Oh, no. And the mom grabbed him by the scruff of the shirt. Oh, no. And in the meantime, I don't remember the story. You don't remember this. I don't remember this. My mother rolls the window down as this woman is walloping her kid. Oh my god. And she's encouraging the lady that hit her kids. She's like, do it. She's like, do it. No, no, no. And I was like, oh, mom, what is wrong with you? And then my mother hit him. And then my mother says to me, can you imagine what a bad day I would have had if we hit this kid? May we all? And she said it. May we all have the confidence on DAS. We, my mom says this to my father. Imagine how awful my day would have been if we were friends. We get home and we tell my dad this story. And he's just like, yeah. It's like the noted. It would have been a really bad day for your mother. My lung just collapsed. If we don't get canceled for the fur, it's going to be the driving in Haiti. Listen, I was driving in Haiti. Driving in Haiti sounds like a punchline. It's killer be killed. It's rough. Really? Yeah. I mean, I've never been to Haiti, but I can imagine. I mean, I think I, I mean, anytime I've seen like videos of what it's like to drive in like India or what it's like to drive in Sri Lanka or Pakistan, there is a certain level of chaos. Sure. And I will say if you can drive in those places, you can absolutely drive anywhere. I've been in a car with Melissa, Mal branch, a couple times. You've driven me. Yeah. We went to the beach that one time. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think I'm going to be a girl who grew up in Queens like she is. It is very much like the stop signs of foot away. And we're going to just start pressing on the stop break. No, but are you okay? Yeah, I'm fine. I mean, I made it out alive. You made it out alive. We got there pretty snappy. Yes, we did. I've got places to go. I have shit to do. In and out. Yeah, she's got four fucking estate sales to go to. Listen, I will not be judged by the likes of you. Okay, I just wanted to tell you this one thing that a balancer said to me this week. And we don't have to get into the whole story about me going out. It's okay. We all support my lifestyle, especially Melissa. But I do just have to tell you that this balancer, first of all, Lady Balancer, rare elucidate creature. We love that. We love that. And I was like, oh, yeah. And so I'm like going in on our alpha and I'm like, this is great. We're having a great time. The balancer had a special alpha. Yeah, she was just like, great. She was beautiful. And so we were chatting. I feel like. She's a line behind me. Okay, sorry. I just, I think I feel like a balancer would be wearing something. We're going to try. We're going to key key. We'll be wearing something in case there was very. It was very, I mean, it was very like buffy the vampire slayer. Okay. It was a lot of like leather, like dark colors. Yes. It wasn't like like a diamond first and burg wrap dress. Like it was. I didn't think that. But like, I didn't think it'd be an alpha that required comment. Yeah, yeah. But it was, it was like, oh, you look great. And she looked at me. So the night, sort of a road on in a debaucher's way. And she and I end up chatting at the bar for a while. And she goes, can I just ask you something? Are you white or white passing? It's like that is a crazy question. I've never actually speechless. Why passing or white presenting? Because she said white passing. Okay, those are different things. Yeah, I know. I was like, this is. I think white presenting, you can't help it. Right. No, no, no, no. Yeah, of course. Yeah. White passing is when you were like, smoking. Right. And I was like, I'm not sure with all these white boys pretending to be, and I'm not like pretending to be white when you're not. It was very, it was like so interesting. We got into a whole identity politics conversation after that. But I thought it was, and it reminded me of your cousin who reached out to you, asking to talk to a transracial couple, asking Melissa to chat about the relationship. But we're not. I'm not in a situation. So she did reach back out to me, by the way. I forgot to touch base with you about it. I was just like, no, thank you for waiting for the viewers at home. Everybody was tight. Type one in the comment section if you need to be constantly kept up to date on this, because I do. So she got back to me, and she was just like, I'm sorry, I meant cross-cultural, not. Okay. Yeah, which is, which is great, which is, because I was very worried. I was worried that like, not that it would be an issue if I was married to a white man, but they would think that my not-white husband was white. Yeah. And what is the conversation that's been happening behind my back? Rupal always says, it's none of my business, what other people say about me. I don't believe that. But I'm my back. I try to live by that, because people really do talk shit about me. No, I want to know everybody who's talking about me. No, people on the internet, I'm really limiting the comments, like what comments I read, because sometimes it's like, Yeah, no, the internet, I think the internet is different, but I'm interested in knowing what my family thinks. Actually, that's the last people I want to know, I think about me. No, I'm scared. No, I want to know. And I will take them on. Let's take a brief recess. All right, so this is Sidebar where I share all the weird things that happened to me in court this week. This is shout out to the baddies, to the girlies, to the nurses of New York City, because nurses are fierce divas, who not only kept everyone alive during the pandemic. 100%. And then like, I was talking about this, my friend this week, and actually, that, and then we just literally stopped thinking them one day. We were like, oh done. Well, we stopped banging on the roof. We stopped banging the roof. And then it was like, okay, back to treating them like shit and underpaying them and like not honoring their union contracts. Right? So not valuing them. Yeah, of course, yeah. Yeah, referring to, yeah. So I met this client who, she was experiencing like extreme illness. I can't really say too much, but she was very sick. And so I had to go get her stuff from the detention center because the transferred her to the hospital, with her belonging, without any of her shit. And so I was like, all right, I got to go get her stuff from a detention center. Let's just say it's so far in Brooklyn, so deep in Brooklyn. We know what I say. What? Behind God's back. But when something is fucking far away, where is that behind God's back? Yes, that's literally a child. Behind God's huge back. We have passed. We have passed. Sorry, shout out to God. Type two in the comment section if you love God. So we're so far behind God's back that like the macho shops of Brooklyn are like in a flag, a spec on the horizon. So I get over stuff. I book it back to the hospital. She's not conscious. I was hired by the family. Like I was not working with this individual. But I'm chatting with one of the nurses because nurses, they're like, oh, you're an immigration lawyer. A lot of nurses are immigrants. So like, they kind of, you know, come over and want a key key and they want to like get the tea. Ask me a quick question. No, why is that actually? I know you have a lot of nurses in your family. I do. So because the, what happens is that the United States has a shortage of nurses, right? So a lot of people from other countries are coming to the United States to be nurses, which is then resulting in a shortage of nurses in other countries, right? So like there is a shortage shortage of nurses in the Philippines because so many Filipina nurses come here. There's a shortage of nurses in, and I know Africa is a big place in a continent. I cannot remember the country. However, there is a, you got a hall pass on this one. Sorry. They have all gone over to Ireland. Oh, because there's a nursing shortage day. Yeah. So a lot of Irish nurses make more than, yes, and oh my god, where are the Irish nurses going? The UK. Stop. Oh my god. Yes. Three card shuffle. Yes. And that's what's happening. That's what's happening. Yeah. Wow. Anyway, if only we could like come together and just be like, hey guys. For so many. Yeah, I guess, yeah. Let's, let's just like fair pay. Anyway, so I'm chatting with this nurse and she's like, oh, like this is, and we sort of get into the case a little bit. And the ice wouldn't unhand cuff my unconscious client. So I asked the nurse, I was like, hey, like, would you kind of be willing to testify? And she's like, jumped on it. She was like, yeah, sure. And I'm going to like help her out with other stuff. But I got to go to court the next day. And the judge read, like leaned into me and was like, where's your client? Like came at me hot. And I was like, my clients unconscious in the hospital, ice won't release this person from custody. She's a nonviolent criminal record. We need to get her unhand cuff because medical professionals are advising that they can't treat her properly because she's still unconscious and handcuffed to a gurney. So I got, I face timed the nurse. She gave me her number. What the, Doug? Test, I made her testify. And did it, did it work? It worked. It worked. Yeah, they released her. It was great. And nurses like, I mean, they really fucking hate ice. Like she was, they, a lot of them are from immigrant communities. So she was like, these are the receipts. These are the ways in which it was nurses also had empathy. Yes. Right. There's that caregivers, right? They care about what happened. No, it was, it was just like what I feel good moment. And, you know, um, an onslaught of fucking bullshit that you have to deal with as an immigration lawyer. So it's just like one of these moments where it was like, we're going to band together. We're going to hold hands. I love that. I love that. I love that. One person on handcuffed. Yeah. And so I can't say much else about like what's going on with her. No, that's fine. But like, but now she's being properly treated. That's good. Yeah. Good. Good, I'm glad. Yeah. People who didn't do what John F. Guad wanted them to do, they usually disappeared. John of God was once Brazil's most famous spiritual healer. But in this limited series podcast, we uncover the darker truth behind his global empire of faith and fear. From exactly right and a thundermedia, this is Too Faced, John of God. Listen on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Alright, so this segment is called, uh, what the fuck is it called? Under oath. It's my own, my show. Oh no. This segment's called under oath. We're going to be talking about art law. I'm really excited to talk about this actually, because I have a little bit of lore here, because I actually feel like I'm coming out, but I was an art lawyer. That was like sort of part of my villain origin story. I was an art lawyer right out of law school. I got a job working for a huge gallery. I can't say which one you can probably guess it, but it was here in New York and it dealt with art from all areas of the world, modern art, antiquities, everything. So this case from 2005, the curator was indicted in Los Angeles at the Getty for, uh, sort of taking antiquities accused of taking antiquities from Italy and displaying them at the Getty. And it was sort of this like, um, the sort of one of the first cases to really kind of deal with this issue because like antiquities do belong to someone like, right? And this is like, yeah, it's like where they were taken from. Yeah. And this is like a huge, I think a lot of institutions are sort of grappling with this like moment where it's like, okay, we have this thing. We know it belongs to this other person, like people's perception and how they think we should be behaving and treating these objects and treating other cultures. You know, I think the sort of logic and air quotes for those of you listening and not watching is the logic was, oh, it's safer with us than it is with this. And it's this very colonialist fucked up perspective. I was going to say because the colonizer will insist on colonizing, right? Yes. At every turn. Yeah. And it was very much like steeped in the sort of notion of like, oh, well, you know, these people could never possibly they don't understand what they have. That's right. Yeah. And it's just this is like gross sort of like white imperialistic, frankly, British perspective. I mean, the British museum is like a very, very infamous example of antiquity looting. So I wanted to talk about this case because I thought it was just sort of like an interesting entree into art law, right? Like art law is sort of like cobbled together of all these weird different laws. Like there is no like art law section of a law school textbook. There's no like art law book of statutes. It's actually like it's contract law. It's criminal law. It's not it's sort of like pulled together in the subject matter. Just happens to be art. So Mary and Trish was the curator of the getty and she was accused of sort of like laundering these artifacts through private collections to sort of disguise the fact that they were acquired by the getty in an improper way. So the outcome of this case was kind of cool because basically what happened was they sort of struck a deal in this like weird like Italian court where they returned a lot of the antiquities and the charges were dropped, which is like an interesting thing. You don't normally see that happen. I mean, these were criminal charges. So you don't normally see that happen in criminal court where it's like, Oh, if you return the TV you stole, I'm going to drop the charges. And it's like there's really no backsees in criminal court. That was like a really new thing. But I think because it was the getty because it got so many headlines. And this was five years later, like it took five years of negotiating with the Italian government to sort of drop these charges. What happened to the woman? So Marion didn't have any finding of guilt. Like she was exonerated. She does claim that I mean, and I think she's probably right. Like her reputation was badly damaged and yeah, you're right. And I think contextually like the criminal defense lawyer of me is like, Yes, and everyone was doing this. And this was the first time not to like say what she did was right. It was clearly there was a precedent. And this was the first time we've got a female curator. It's 2005. I don't know. There is something here. There were more like a little bit stuck on it where I'm like, Yes, what she was doing was wrong. Everyone was doing it. And we chose this person to make an example of like that felt a little like, Oh, we've got there's something here. So since this case has happened, this was sort of like this beacon of how we're going to change the way we handle antiquities. So we now have to have established provenance with every sort of artifact that says like you came from this place and sort of like a certificate showing that like it's okay to do that. So if you're at the Met, you're at a museum and you see something like that, they probably have some sort of documentation that says that it's okay for them to have that. Are they borrowing it from the country? I'm not not in the before times more now. Are they borrowing it? That's a great question because now I think there's like this sort of interesting trend that's happening with these institutions where they're like, Oh, this is like a bad PR moment. And it's like totally not worth having this like mummy in our literally mummy in our museum. It doesn't look great for us. And people are kind of picking up on that. Yes, they are. The woke is coming for them. And so the woke left the woke left without saying goodbye. Yeah. So, but they started doing a lot of repatriation where they're returning. And they're going to be doing objects to my eyes are on new British museum because I don't know how much of this they've actually done. Well, I mean, I think just the, it's not just a British museum. It's the entire British system where they would go into countries and steal the jewelry. Yeah. And so there was sort of this like slate of international laws that came out that sort of governed this. And but there've been like follow up lawsuits like Peru sued Yale University because they had objects from Machu Picchu that one of like the Yale professors sort of stole from Peru in the early 20th century. Can like I guess obviously they can Peru sued Yale for this professor that had taken these objects in their early part of the 20th. Right. So it's not necessarily something that that may have happened in the past five or 10 years and you can go back. Oh, no, really old. Yeah. So a Yale professor discovered Machu Picchu Peruvians knew where it was, right? And white people did it. And so he discovered it in his mind. And so he said, Oh, I discovered this place, this abandoned city filled with antiquities and brought back some of those objects. And they were sort of being housed in hell debt. Yale. So I mean, we love to see accountability. They did return the antiquities. Peru did kind of have to like sue them to get that to happen. Like I don't love that part. No. So it's not like they were doing the right thing. They got sued and had to give it. And this was actually right after the getty. So this was in 2006. So there was sort of this like wave of, uh-oh, like this wave of people being like, Oh, shit, we might have kind of fucked this up. And there's like kind of press coming out around this. So there was also an interesting statute that the US enacted an act, the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act because there were literal Native American remains being displayed in museums. So there, that act has been pretty strictly enforced where people are returning, you know, burial objects, uh, literal bodies sometimes. So the craziest things do happen in the art world. Like I think it is the most unregulated asset class. And so something I sort of learned quickly was that we're basically working for a finance company. Like, yeah, it's an asset. And the contracts are just about art as an art lawyer. So I was an art lawyer for about two years. And I worked at the scholar and like the craziest things kind of happened. Did you like it? The silence is definitely- I don't know if I still don't know if I liked it because it was crazy. It's like, um, it's like hanging out with like your manic friend. Like it is going to be weird and crazy, but also like really fun, but also you're quickly going to get kind of tired. Okay. You know, that manic depressive friend of yours. So, you know who you are, Becky. I imagine there are a lot of also sort of really intense personalities, right? A lot of intense personalities, a lot of nepo babies. There was a lot of like- Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. The art world is governed by nepo babies. It is all like the wealthiest people their kids want to work in art. They are interested in contemporary art galleries are kind of run. It's like it really is this insular world. Big personalities, a lot of entitlements. So that got old really fast too. Okay. I can imagine. So a lot of my job was like, unfucking things up. So I don't know how else to say it. Yeah. But we were looking for this like bust of like Julius Caesar's head and no one could find it. So we couldn't find it. Right. And it was like months and it was my first day like the person. Well, first of all, when I interviewed, they were like, oh, yes, great. Like I interviewed with like whom I've also going to be. And then I got a call from HR offering me the job and they were like, just so you know that person you interviewed with quit. She is no longer here. She- She quit or she could find it? She just- No shoes on, walked out the door, half a cup of coffee on the table. You know how I feel? That's my theory of that one. She was walking off into the sunset, never to be heard from a guy. Yeah. It was something, put to them over the edge. She's on the note, yeah. She's on the note, yeah. She's, yeah. Uh-huh. She's behind because they said fuck it. Yeah, fuck this and just walked away. So she left this like, hey, we can't find this bust of Julius Caesar's head. And this woman, she was like, you know, well, I don't know. She was like, if she was like, what are you doing? Or tense van uppity. She was like this like older woman. It was clear. She was just like very much like a blue blood Emily Gilmore type, right? Okay. To like interview her, it was like an involuntary occasion. In her office. You had to interview Emily Gilmore? Yes. And I had to sort of figure out where this was. We could have find it. It was really- Did she know where it was? Very valuable. She was the one, she was like, we don't know where this is. And so interview her anyway. She ends up retiring. Sure. As we're cleaning out her office, she was using it as a footrest. We found it on the floor under her desk. How do you not know that you're using a bust of Julius Caesar's head? Like, or or or or or or or or how many how many bust of Julius Caesar are you using? That you just mix them all up. Or was it in a box? Because that I can see, right? Yeah. And she was using the boxes of footrest, not recognizing. No, it was like stuffed under her desk. And she could, I mean, in her defense, again, the defense lawyer in me really wants to defend more tense manopathy. What is the defense? The defense is like, you know, what was the last time she got on the floor was kind of crawling around her office. I think it probably fell off her desk like backwards. And then was on the floor. And then she was like, my feet are sore, spin class the sweet can. I was resting her feet on it for the next. I was like, well, I, I reject this. I do. I really, really, I reject it. I reject it. I reject it. It's ridiculous. So you mean to tell me, let's just say that's true. Yeah. You knew you had a bust, a valuable bust on your desk. Oh, sure. Yeah. It fell off the desk. I mean, yeah. I think it went. Yeah. And then what it rolled? Yeah, it could have been, yeah, I think it probably rolled all of it. This is this. I know. And this is not a you problem. I know. This is a Hortens event. Updates problem. Right. And technically, I mean, Julius Caesar's problem too. Well, he's, it's not really his head. We're going to do a rapid fire of all the crazy things that happened to me at that job. At one point, there was this war hall that we couldn't identify. Like, we had like an extra war hall, which is like never, it's like when you're putting together a key of furniture and you have an extra screw. It's like something's wrong. Something's wrong. Yeah. So why do we have an extra war hall? We had to call in like a specialist from London, we like flew people into like, we didn't know what this was. And it turned out that it was an empty frame. We spent like a awkward grand trying to figure out what it was. And it was just an empty frame that someone put the wrong sticker on. That would piss me off. We were. That would really make me so angry, especially because I can see myself looking at something that looks like bullshit to me. And I'm like, and now you've got me running around. And a jackass parade. I mean, this was part of why I left. I mean, we've got, I spent a lot of time in this. I was like, I could really be doing some good work with this law degree instead of looking. Or maybe not even good work, but better work. Yeah. Yeah. At one point, we had, we were moving everything around in this like shopping cart. Like, there was a literal shopping cart. Like from the stop and stop. Yeah. And we were moving art around the gallery with someone came and was like, I got to pick up my artwork and we're like, where is it? We're like trying to find it, we're moving stuff around in the shopping cart. The shopping cart was a work of art. And no one told us. And we were using it to transport. It had been like painted and glazed in like a specific way. We had to pay a lot of money to have it like restored. Well, yeah, it gave me a lot of money. We've been pushing. And that's the problem with modern art. I was going to say that that's the problem with modern art, right? And I feel bad. I can't stand that shit. Well, I mean, because I really am not pro shopping cart art. No. Like, it has to stop somewhere. No. Like, like, no, it's actually gotten out of hand. This is your expression is actually, I do want to like shut the art expressions. I just, I don't, I'm kind of anti-artist at a certain point. Well, I mean, I just become my father. Like, it's not a painting of a horse. Or is it like a bowl of fruit? Yeah. Is it a, is it still like, is it? Is it, what is it? Is it a, you know, a nice watercolor? I don't get it. My dad actually, wait, while we're on the subject of my dad, my dad touched a painting at Mama and got escorted out of the building when I was a kid. He walked, he was like, well, it looked like an interesting fabric. And he went, and he touched it and it alarm went off. I was going to say it's, it's their fault. If you don't want people to touch thing, put it behind Lucite. Yeah, I mean, this is, yeah. You don't want me to touch it? It's when I really became interested in the law, criminal law. My dad getting escorted out of Mama, perp walked past the gift shop. I wonder what the artist was. I bet it's probably someone like really famous. Of course it is. They probably, they maybe they follow me on TikTok. If you made that shopping cart. Michael, sorry. I'm sorry we did damage it a lot. But we fixed it. There was this person had a reality show and they were a, I'll say they were like a rap mogul and they had a piece of art that was basically like chalk, kind of chalkboard. And the house cleaning person cleaned it. That was bad. That was bad. I have to be a good lawyer at this point just for like a second. Yeah. So technically under like intellectual property law, if you are an artist and you are making these like temporal works like chalk or something like that. Do some sort of like guide or manual that goes along with it. These sort of like artworks that can be like broken down and put back together like swapped out or they're an object that is like a cup or thing. Do like a menu script around it. That can be the thing that your intellectual property attaches to rather than the drawing of the chalk which can easily be erased. It'll raise the value of your property. And I think that that's probably really valuable advice. I just think that probably somebody who is an artist is like Erica Badu said, you know, is an artist and they're sensitive about their shit and they don't want to take the time to do something like that. Sure. Yeah, of course. But your point is well, it's higher someone to do or like chat GPT that shit. Like I don't, but you know what I mean? No, I think I'm like a little something. But I get it. I've also been like that. My agent was like, we really need you to write a book and I was like, I don't have time or the energy to like you do. I don't tell me what to do. Wait, I have that tattooed. What? Don't tell me what to do. You do? Yeah. It's a bulldog and it says don't tell me what to do. That's right. I don't think I've ever read your body before. We'll get a close up. We'll throw a photo of my tattoo upon the screen. We could do a full tattoo tour one day. Okay. So, I think that's what happened at the gallery. We had to send this one woman. She was always, I would always catch her carrying a painting down the street. Like the, like the, sometimes we had to send things out to be authenticated and we would charge back a department for the transport. And she would want it to save money on the transport because we were on a shoe string budget. And so she would take the painting off the wall and like, I would catch her like side stepping down the street with the painting and I have to be like, you're going to damage this. And then I'm going to have to file the insurance claim. So she was always just ripping it off the wall. I don't know how I feel about the idea because it sounds like this was like a major gallery, right? A major institution that they were doing anything on a shoe string. Like, no, it was. It was all about that bottom line. Oh, yeah, everything. But the whole thing is the art. So if you damage the art, I know. I know. Well, that was my point. No, but I was going roll. I don't know anything about this. And I'm telling you that that sounds stupid, right? So it bothers me that there are people who, this was their job. And they're just like, nope, I'm just going to like take it off the wall. She's like, I read Sarah Pilling going rogue and I really took that to heart. I've got to just go and waste this thing. Straight wild. I'm going to put this bust underneath my dad. I'm going to punch Julia Caesar's head. I hate every word. Say that every episode. I hate every word. More and more. Okay. Well, you're about to hate me because at one point, I got locked out of my computer and I was getting sworn into the bar. Like this was back in 2014. And I was the only person who had access to this like specific system. So my boss called me on myself like at the swearing and ceremony. But in the art world, they don't give a shit what you're doing. And I had to read my password to my laptop. What was the ooh to my boss? Tell me what it was. Rainbow Dolphin 69. Oh, that's not that bad. But with a capital R. Yeah. Yeah. To act succinct. It was technically incompliance with like what I T wanted. So I didn't get fired for that. But it was like, I had to explain it to me. He was like, okay, thanks. That's actually not bad. No, it could have been really bad. I've had some bad passwords. Well, I don't want to get hacked again. No, no, no, I wouldn't say, but I'm just saying like I've had nasty shit. Yes, real, or like, if I've hated a boss. Stop Melissa, you're gathering your boss and your password every time you punch it in. Fuck this motherfucker. Hashtag number seven. Michael used to be my boss. We're not going to talk about that on the show. We're not. No. Anyway, let's take a brief recess. Melissa has some cases actually this week that we wanted to talk about. So jump into it. I was looking at the docket for this year's Supreme Court. Were you just, do you just like wake up in Peru's? No, I don't. I don't. But a coffee on a Sunday morning. You know what? I was thinking about it because of the government shutdown. And I was like, I wonder what, I wonder what they're up to. Yeah, I'm going to be there up to anything. And, you know, a little rabbit hole. One thing led to another and I was like, oh, I didn't, and I don't think I had realized that you can look at the docket for the year. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of people like track it. I stepped on Sunday so to my horse foot once. Did you say sorry? No. You should have. I, I, I was a dick move. We were okay. So I was 24 old enough to notice, excuse me. And I was waiting tables. And she came in with a big group and she was, I mean, she was great. I knew who she was. And like, there was a whole like debate among the waiters of like what we call her and I wasn't a lawyer yet. And so I don't really know. I think it's a mad of justice is what you're supposed to call her. I don't know. Anyway, I stepped on her foot and she was like really cool about it. We both just kind of like looked at each other like, are we going to like do a whole thing here? And she just like went and like just kind of ignored me. It's kind of great. She was super friendly though. Well, that's welcoming to hear. Did I, I know I did tell you this the time that I accidentally stepped on some guy's foot in the subway and he kicked me? What? I said, excuse me. And he kicked you. Don't be go fuck myself and he kicked me. But the best was he mentally ill. He seemed fine to me. I kicked him back. That for me on all kidding aside, that was the part. Melissa. That was the part. When I tell you Perry met Perry met us. Let me tell you about Perry met. Perry met us will make you do some shit. And I, you know, and I, you know, and I, you said you hit me. You put up. Oh, I was so, I was so, I was so, I was so angry. But let me tell you so I, unlike you, I am not a prolific tick tocker, but I took it to tick tock. What did, oh, what did the clock app say? Yeah, what were they saying? Well, there were, I mean, there were definitely two camps. People who were like, you had a coming bitch. I would have kicked you. What? Would have kicked you too. Could you stepped on this foot? I, you know, when you're walking and I sit on the back of his foot and I say, oh, you gave him a flat tire. Sorry, but I said, oh, excuse me. Yeah. And then he turned around, fuck you, you bitch. And he kicked me and I couldn't believe it. I kicked him back. And this man behind us, this random man sort of came up behind me and like very sort of kindly ushered me out of the way and was like, don't fight with him. He's crazy. He kicked me. And I'm telling you, before Perry Metapause, I would have let it go. But if I had a, I might have cut him. Melissa auditioning for the pendant like Beckham sequel. Just kidding. I can't even tell you. And the thing is, it's like, I think both of our kicks were like weak. It wasn't like, not even wasn't like. And it wasn't just like, yeah, I kicked his fucking ass. It was like this week. But I was absolutely on fire in my soul. In my mind, no, in my mind, you did something accidental that did not warrant physical intentional violence. I mean, the men's ray was present for that man. Well, I think I just, I genuinely believe and I'll say this is somebody the other day. I just think that post pandemic, we are not okay. Like just generally the world is not okay. We're not okay. Let me tell you something post pandemic who hasn't gone to therapy. Like I went to so much therapy after the, because I just couldn't, I literally didn't know how to talk to people. I like forgot. I forgot how to relate to people, which I do you look in, do you look in both? Like it was like, how do I do this again? Like it really took me a minute. It was clunky, especially with like client-based work. Like how do you actually relate to someone with empathy after like when all of your insides are screaming that, you know, what we're doing is unsafe just being near each other. Like that was so spooky. So I went, I mean, I did and a lot of people I know went to therapy or were in therapy during the pandemic. I actually, I actually wasn't, I stopped right before. I stopped right before. And you're still wondering why you kicked someone? Because you kicked me first. It's not like I kicked him. He kicked me. I kicked him back. Fuck him. Fuck you, sir. Get out of here. Okay. You have Melissa Brotta case this week that you want to talk about. This is Supreme Court. Yeah. So I was looking at the Supreme Court's docket. And they are bringing this case and the case is called Chiles versus Salazar. Oh, yeah. And it is about Colorado law that is banning conversion therapy. Right, right, right. So we don't know what conversion therapy is. It is actually illegal in 25 states, which means that it's not illegal in the other 25 states. Yeah, I have a friend who went to a conversion therapy camp. Really? Oh, yeah, he's still fucked up. Oh, right. Yeah. It's really fucked up because especially at this time in your life when you're trying to figure your shit out, and someone is forcing you to not do that, it really does. Oh, I can imagine. You do this psychologically. You do this sort of tapping down who you are. Right. Yeah. Yeah, and some of it's negative in the course. It is really scary shit. And I also think the idea that usually if you are a young person who's going into conversion therapy, your parents have sent you to that. Right. Yeah, no, definitely. Imagine what that must feel like as somebody who's sort of trying to come into themselves and the people who should be the most loving, the most supportive are telling you that there's something wrong with you and that you need to fix it. And in the fixing, it's almost like a breakdown of who you are. It's also like the messaging that you're getting from a parent is that I don't love you the way you are. No, you have to be. You've got to change in order to be acceptable to me. That is like the most fucked up thing, I think. I mean, my parents were contextually very cool with me coming out when I came out and they were supportive like in their own way. I don't think like they definitely didn't do anything like that, but at the time like they were so progressive about it. And I like I'm always so grateful for that because looking back, I mean, at the time it didn't feel like a huge big crazy deal to me, but like looking back, knowing everything I know now about the world and how most gay people sort of enter it. Yeah. I don't know. I just feel like very grateful for the fact that they made it like a non event, non issue, especially then going to law school in the South when I was 23 and I had been out for eight years at that point to meet all these gay men who were still so happy about it. Deeply deeply positive. I really struggled with it and I was like, it was a culture shock for me because I was very much like a North or North going to school in the South and I was like, I don't relate to this. Like I actually, this is like such a strange cultural difference. It was really, it was different. It was hard to kind of connect with that community when I was there. So it was like, it's hard to really date when people are like very closeted or still hung up on it and it was never something I was hung up on. You are permitted when you really needed it to be yourself. Exactly. Right. And now you're gone through college and now you're in law school. You are really yourself. Yes. And you are trying to connect with people, hopefully who are also their authentic self. And you're also able to sort of like find parts about yourself that aren't sexuality based. Like for me, it was like got through it, figured it out. Now I can explore like the other things I'm interested in. Like what motivates me as a person? Like what hobbies am I interested in? Like how do I sort of want to enter this world? And I was able to sort of do that. I think a lot of queer people who don't have that experience then are still figuring it out now, right? Right. Now there's these are sort of adult in their 30s trying to figure themselves out still. Right. Yes, but this band, they're banding it in Colorado and it's made its way up to the Supreme Court. This room court is going to decide if they're going to hear it. They are going to hear it. They have decided. Yeah, they are going to hear it. And so the therapist who's bringing the case, name is Kaylee Chilis. I think that's how you say it. She's arguing that the Colorado band infringes on her first amendment right to free speech because it is limiting what she can say to her clients. So this is a therapist whose therapy practice is faith based. Oh, Jesus. That makes me so nervous. Right. Well, yeah. And she, according to what I read, she's sort of really bristling at the idea that this is conversion therapy. She's saying that, you know, she wants to be able to speak to her clients about who they are and what God wants them to be. No, get fucked. God wants her kid to be gay as hell. I'm sorry. Go fuck yourself. Like that's like that's a guy with that headline for me dog. Like, I don't know, man. Like, oh, like God is telling me what to say. How about like the governing ethics for psychology and psychiatry? Like what? That's true. And what she's saying is that, so she's also saying that these are people who are coming to her on their own, okay? Not necessarily being brought forcibly to them by their parents, but it still makes me really anxious. You know, after the election, actually, I recorded it, but didn't post it because I started crying in the middle of it. But one of the things that I was really, really worried about is I was worried about trans people while I was going to happen to them. You know, I think being your authentic self is such an important part of who I am. I'm just, you know, I, oh, yeah. And it takes everybody some time to figure that out, but I can't imagine what it would feel like if you felt like the world around you resented you for simply being who you were. Yes. Yeah. And it made me worried about those people sort of moving along in their lives and being healthy and choosing to stay with us, right? Because that is something else that's really worried about. Yeah. So the suicide rates and the trans community are significantly higher than they are higher and we can sort of almost understand why that is, right? Sure. Yeah. It's going to be like the entire world is against you. Right. Then what is there to live for? And I feel like, you know, I hate to sort of be this person, but like, please don't do that. You are loved. You are wanted. You are respected. Totally. Yeah. And I hope that trans folks are getting that message in spite of what is happening. Yeah. We talked about this just like the way in which like the queer community like is taking care of itself. Yeah. They have to. Like, we're kind of like clinging closer to each other. Sure. And like, I don't know. If you are not trans and supportive, like, and you know someone who is like, you don't have to be like, hey, holding space for you trans person. I know a lot is going on. You can just like be like, hey, how's it going? Like, you get like, there are ways to support each other. Right. That isn't like, you know, the after school special. Like we can just be like, we can just like be there for each other. Yeah. You see someone at the bar. You see someone at a coffee shop who's sitting alone. Maybe they look like, like, you know, I just, I think about that a lot. Yes. So do I. And I actually feel it when I don't. You do. Like guilty. I'm like, I really should have talked to that person. I know. And then I get like a little, I think the other thing that somebody could do, I know that I do this. If there are people around me who are making like commentary that I find offensive and they, and they think that it's, well, I think you can do that if you choose. Be careful. Um, I don't, don't do that actually, but listen. Okay. But I also think what I love to do is make people feel uncomfortable. Right. Melissa is a villain when it is so satisfying to watch you do this. It actually is like a litigation strategy. And I don't know who taught it to you where you found it from discovered it yourself. I told you before why. Okay. I mentioned person. Okay. I have the blood of revolutionaries. Oh, yeah. Yes, yes. Yeah. At all times. No, and that is actually in your bio. I mean, it's on your business card. Yeah. Um, but I, but I do think that sometimes by making people who are offensive feel uncomfortable. Right. Let's do an example. So say, say something that you think that we know is offensive. I think you got that I think is funny. Oh, I don't know if I could do that. But like, um, I know the one that you've talked about. What I always do is if somebody says something, I can think is funny. Yeah. Yeah. I will inevitably say, I don't get it. Oh, I don't understand. And then they'll say it again. And I'm just like, wait, am I missing something? What part of that? Oh, I'm sorry. Explain it to me. And then eventually they're just like, oh, she's taking me to task without actually being like, you're a fucking whatever. Right. There's nothing worse than telling a joke and having to explain the joke. And then any joke, even if it's not offensive, to have to have someone a not understand. So now there's crickets. Right. And to have to be like, oh, let me answer a quick Q and A about that joke I told was no one left. Right. And now I'm realizing that I said something offensive or not funny. Yeah. That's not clever. Yeah. Yeah. And it's not something that I do to just random people. But when people say things in front of me that I find offensive, that I know are could be potentially hurtful for somebody else, I make them explain it to me. Explain it to me slow. And then explain it to me slow. I love it. And then you know, and they usually sort of either like say forget it or the bad pedal. Yeah. I don't. Wait, why is that funny? See. I'm so it's true. No, it's great. And you and you have to and you have to look at them right in the eye and be really uncomfortable about it like right getting their face. Like playing and you don't and again, not everybody is comfortable telling somebody to go fuck themselves, right? No, I am. But yeah, for sure. It's so annoying. Like those of us who are like, let's do it. You do it. And I think you do what you feel comfortable with. I am comfortable in making people feel uncomfortable. I'm very comfortable. I can live in the awkward silence where you know, someone's getting called out on something or if someone asks me something and I really need them to hear their own question, like getting comfortable with that like awkward minute of like. Let me ask you a question. Okay. In an uncomfortable situation, like let's say you are in a group meeting with a lot of people and they're in there. This is completely not what we're talking about, but I'm just not that you mentioned. I'm curious. And there is that uncomfortable moment. Do you just live in the moment or do you let the moment play out or do you sort of do something like some people will like move things around. Some people will like cough. Yeah. Do you want to know what I'm doing? Do you know what I find stillness like I'm just like, you just wait. I think there's power and stillness. I think we're all moving around. So I don't know why I do this, but I fake sneeze. And I don't know. And I think because I think because if I if I if I speak if I sneeze just someone have a cat someone's going to say bless you. And it's like. No. No. I do. And now I've given away my thing. But that's what because sometimes if the uncomfortable thing has nothing to do with me, but I'm here. I get very nervous. Oh yeah. Yeah. But if I it's different. I got my guy just like a sneeze. Oh my god. I'm going to fucking atrophy. So this is what I do. I don't know when I started doing it. My stop. I have a high blood pressure. That was it. You can't do it. That was a really good scene. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. it's going to reset the moment. I've got to add it here. So, my response is fighter flight. I'm like, get me out of the studio. So yeah, so anyway, back to this game. Back to TransRates on the line. Anyway, I'm super interested to see what happens. I'm too. I'm super worried about Trans folks and yeah. As a lawyer, I have to jump in and just compare like this to the gay, cake, baker, lawsuit, that the Supreme Court. So there will be like an interesting like call and response between those two decisions, right? But doing this decision and that decision. But speaking of like allyship and like how you kind of relate, like we talked about like how to like relate and, you know, sort of like handle a foe, right? A transphobic racist person at home or whatever, maybe JK Rowling recently was talking to Emma. Oh no, Emma Watson was talking to no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, Emma Watson. I am getting, I am getting corrected. Any, any Harry Potter reference, they're, okay, there are like 10 people I send memes to. The only Harry Potter memes I send to people are two molissa. She's the only person I send Harry Potter to. And she loves, I mean, I knew like every one of them. I love them too, because I get it. If I'm hungover, it's Chinese food and Harry Potter movies on the sofa all day. That is my sudden accident. As much as I have enjoyed the movies, my real thing is the books. And just really quickly about my foray into Harry Potter, I came to it late. I was a grown-ass adult when it first came out and I thought it was stupid. I'll be the idea that me as a grown woman, I'm gonna read a book about a boy wizard. Get the fuck out of here. But I bought the scholastic like set of like the first four books from my cousins, I have a lot of cousins, from my cousins. And those books look very much like for a kid. Like the book covers our very much like for a kid. Yes, very much, very much. And I bought it for him and I don't remember why, but I ended up not giving it to him for his birthday. Interesting, okay. And I threw it in the back seat of my car, where it rolled around for months. Swurches flying down the road. I've been in the car with her, slamming on the brakes. Those books are banged up. And I had taken my mother someplace and I ended up having to wait for her longer than we had thought. And this is before like, she was rebernecking at an accident. Probably. And I pulled out the first book and instantly was like, I was like, oh my God, this is great. You were like, oh shit, who's that great? What's happening? Why are the letters exploding out of it? Yeah. Yes, love it. Anyway, so, and then I even turned into the person who would go to the midnight. Oh, I did that. My friends and I left the club. I was 19. We left the club and we went to the midnight showing turn. No, no, no, no, nothing midnight showing the movie. Oh, of the book. Oh, we went to the movies and we were like, you know, who would in the hall or in the back? You went to the midnight like Barnes and Noble release party. I would. To like, Fergie perform. I don't know, I'm trying to imagine. I just felt like it would just be me, all these like parents and girls. I really do that. I mean, just like, sitting there. I really do have a tremendous amount of like affection for these books for some reason. Yeah, me too. And it has been, I can't even begin to tell you how deeply and profoundly disappointing it has been for me to realize that in spite of her talent, because she is talented, right? Like she, Jake Hibber only has created this amazing world of books. She's also written other books that are also good. Yes, yeah. But to realize that she's a really, she's a bitch. Like she's this horrible person. It is really, really disappointing. I can't just say my favorite meme is on Twitter. Someone put, she was saying something insanely transphobic. Yeah. And someone said put her back her like thumbnail photo was it was clearly there was like black mold growing up the wall. And someone wrote like the black mold is like destroying her brain. And then the next photo was she changed her profile photo. She saw the tweet and changed her photo to the thing to something else without black mold in the background. Yeah, I don't understand the loving that she has or that anybody has, frankly, for the trans community. The trans community is minuscule. It's tiny. And also I got to say some of the coolest people I know. There are plenty of jokes of punching down about them not having a sense of humor or like, but literally I have the most fun. There's a lot of this like, oh, whoa, can't take a joke kind of like energy on the alt rate or whatever. Can't take a joke as opposed to conservatives. Right, yeah. Yeah, right. I will say in my experience, it's usually the people have the most fun with trans because like to be trans, I think for the most part, a lot of people have like a lot of self awareness if you're trans. Like there's this interesting MPR sort of series a couple of years ago about trans kids and how they are oftentimes like the people who understand themselves as a person more than non-trans children. They were able to identify that there's something different about themselves articulated to an adult and like seek assistance. So it's like kind of interesting. Like I don't know to have that level of self awareness. Like a lot of the times, at least for in my case, I have a lot of like humor about it, right? Anyway, to be like very disappointed, I think what we're kind of like coming up against here is like the artist versus the art. Yeah. And like how do we like separate that? And it's coming up more and more. I think it's society. Like people just sort of like are getting more and more canceled. So speaking of being canceled, so Emma Watson went on some podcast and she was talking about her life after Harry Potter and how she sort of stopped acting for a while and she's speaking about coming back. And then of course the JK Rowling came up and then she said that she's deciding that she's going to love JK Rowling in spite of her stance on trans folks because she's choosing to remember the JK Rowling that she knew herself, right? She's choosing to value the woman who wrote this amazing character of her mind, which she's... And probably had like amazing experiences with her when she was the kid, right? Absolutely. And you know, saying that, you know, somebody, she's like, I am choosing to believe that there is something that she just does not understand. I don't want to believe that she's a bad person. I don't want to believe that this person that I loved is really sort of inherently evil. This feels like how people kind of relate to a dead relative or parent or something like that. It does. It's very much like, I'm going to choose to remember like the positive things. And it's also like kind of like a very healthy way to sort of deal with. Yeah, like... Oh, absolutely. Yes, that's the best. Yeah, like how do I just like take this wonderful experience I have with this person who's now doing something that I completely disagree with and like honor and cherish what I remember of that and not have it be colored by what's happening now. Like that is like a very evolved... I thought so. I thought so. And it came across, and I know she's an actress, but it came across to me as very sincere. Yeah. And she was just like, yes, I think that she's wrong. I think that maybe there's something that she doesn't understand. I think that she could be taught, right? This is basically what she was saying. This person has like the capacity. Right. And she was like, I am not going to cancel her. I am going to hold space for her. And I'm going to be here if she were to choose to be educated. I'm happy to do that. What happened? I actually didn't follow this. J.K. Rowling's tweets or of course. X's or whatever it is. Rips Emma Watson, a new asshole. Like when I, and just full of vitriol, it was disgusting. Wow. And basically was like what she thinks, what J.K. Rowling thinks is happening is that now it is no longer sort of attractive to be the person who hates J.K. Rowling, right? So that now Emma is changing her stance to sort of gentle her stance on what she had said about her before because apparently Emma Watson, Daniel Radcliffe and Rupert had all come out and been like sort of against what she had said about trans people. And she's saying that she thinks that Emma now wants to sort of start back into acting again. And that she's now changing her sort of hardcore stance about J.K. Rowling to be gentler so that she herself becomes more palatable. And just going in about how this woman is ignorant and doesn't know anything, it was so fucking gross. That's great. Absolutely. Just so reprehensible. Like would it not be better to be like, you know what Emma? I disagree with you. I'm gonna keep my stance. Yeah, I'm gonna keep being. I'm gonna keep being this turf, right? I'm gonna keep on doing this. But I appreciate the love that you have for me. I love you too. Even if to say let's agree to this. Had some great memories as well. Yes. Gonna go back to being a turf. Right, I'm gonna go back to being basically hungry to convolve them more together, right? I was again, I'm just constantly disappointed by her. Really, and it kind of bothers me. To have like the level of imagination where you can write seven books about, you know, something that really was like very fascinating and interesting and she really built a world. But not be able to imagine the gender spectrum is like crazy to not be able to be like, oh you know what, maybe someone is not necessarily a binary. Like what? What? What? So crazy. That is wack. Yeah, no, it really, really is. Anyway, I just thought those two things kind of went together. I really, I hate, I hate feeling so disappointed in people. It's like when I found out a client's guilty. I'm like, you fucking lie. Or if I doubt, no, I mean, it's a lot of the times like I represent guilty people. Like and it's just like a matter of we're figuring out a technicality or making sure that at least they're job rate. Right. But a lot of the times it's like, I gotta figure out like they lie to me. It's not necessarily that they're guilty, but they lie about the criminal. They're about the lie, right? And if I don't like the most annoying way, it's always like right when I'm like about to really stick into the prosecution that I find out about the other. But the other thing is, I know you don't love being lied to, but also even guilty people deserve representation. Oh, right. So yeah, so yeah, I feel like really strongly like, I know don't want to ever give J.K. holding another dollar. You know what I mean? I know. And the thing is is that what I hate about that. Those fantastic beast movies though, if you take an edible, they're really good. They're not good. I mean, if you take a couple, if you take a gummy. Not even. No. A little gummy and a fantastic beast. That is a good night. Is it a good night? Yeah, it's a good night. And a glass of rosé. It's a good night. All right, this is Tales from the DMs. I'm gonna be answering all your burning legal questions that you send me on the internet. You DM them to me. You call in. You leave us voicemails. If you go to my link tree, you can leave us a voicemail and we will play it on the show and I'll answer your legal question. But keep the information private. If you don't want to say who you are and also don't record a voicemail, if you don't want people to hear your voice, someone wrote and was annoyed about that. And also everybody I want you to remember that while Michael is a lawyer, he's not your lawyer. So this is just for informational purposes and entertainment purposes. Just remember that. All right, this question, let's play it. What happens if you're riding in a self-driving car and it gets into a crash or if a police officer pulls over a self-driving car? What's the legality of that? Okay, so the interesting thing about self-driving cars is that there's actually a scale-based off states about autonomy. So there's like, it's like a scale of zero through five of how autonomous is the vehicle, which I think is like so crazy that like, someone had to come up with this of like, okay, it's just the one that kind of keeps you in the lane and someone else was like, all right, it's like a completely self-driving car. There's no person in the driver's seat. Like I think they have these on the West Coast now, right? In San Francisco, yeah. Yeah. So basically what happens is if it's fully autonomous, there's no one in the front seat, then you can actually sue the manufacturer. If there was some sort of like IP or product liability. So that's usually what happens if there is an accident like that, there have been some cases where that's happened. But if you are in the driver's seat and there is like an autonomous feature that you're using and you get an accident, you can be held liable. Yes, I mean, I feel like that, sorry. I was surprised that there was, I was when I learned about it, I was surprised that there was like a literal scale of like autonomous features. I thought that was cool. All right. But I'm like such a loser. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I mean, I feel like if you are behind the wheel of the car, if you're using the adaptive cruise control or something, you're still behind the wheel of the car, you are responsible. I guess I do love this because it's like the one instance in society where we are like passing the liability off on companies, not the individual. Like that is actually kind of your sputes. Like I do love to see a company be held accountable rather than like, yeah, it was actually kind of iconic. Diva, I have so many questions. You guys are going to make him insufferable. I want to know how enforceable NDAs are. I have find several in my life, especially with people who have been in a position of wealth and power. So you feel obligated. There's some war here because you're getting a payout or compensation for whatever activity will work you're doing. Is that stormy? You know what I hate? It took me a second to realize that you know, so it just happened in the world that like a literally a porn star signing an NDA. Yeah. So just love it. The president. I'm really interested to what's been going on in this person's like like legitimate. I know there's some more. There's something going on. I'm finding multiple NDAs. And he is, okay, so this is like kind of a hard question to answer, but I'm going to do my best. Okay. It kind of, it depends on what the hell you signed. Like some NDAs, there are contracts. So if it's a royally weird fucked up contract that is has all sorts of issues in it, it's not enforceable. So you really need a lawyer to look at what you signed because like if you signed it under duress or there's like a basic contract law has been violated in this document that you signed, it's not enforceable and you can't be held to the terms therein. Let me ask you a question though. What can you do if you've already signed it? If you've already signed it, you can bring it to a lawyer and show it to them. They really need to read it. Okay. But can they get you out of it if you've already signed it? Yeah. If there's some sort of critical flaw to a contract, you can get out of it. So for example, like you were forced to sign it. There was a criminal lawyer. So contract laws are kind of far into me. But if you weren't given anything in consideration for your sign language, so there was no payment or any sort of like term that way, if the terms are like really vague where it's like you can't say anything, it's like okay about what? It has to be specific to like one thing or like a few things, but they have to be like enumerated. So there have to be like contract law. We can't just like be making up laws and NDAs and they're still gonna be honored by a judge. What happens if you break an NDA? Generally the damages are enumerated in the contract and that's something that would need to be enumerated for it to be enforceable or that would be a sticking point. The thing about NDAs though that do you wanna call out to storm me if you're listening is that? I think she's okay. She's okay. I think so. NDAs are often it's like the threat of litigation is what keeps people silent. It's not like if you say something, instantly there's like a carrier pigeon who like swoops in with a lawsuit. Like someone does have to be like, oh, you violated that, you broke that law. You broke that NDA and here you are being served for damages because you violated that contract. So a lot of the times I think like people who sign NDAs stay silent because they think that there is something that's just gonna like happen if they happen to violate it. But if it's been like a really long time or something like that or the person really doesn't care anymore, like you don't necessarily have to pay those damages because someone would have to get a lawyer and sue you to enforce it. If somebody signs an NDA and the person dies, the one that you're signing it for, let's say you make me sign an NDA and then you die. About something. About something. And then I tell the whole thing. I worth drafting where I want to make sure that there was some sort of clause about what happens. Yeah, because I mean. That'd be an interesting question. Yeah, I could transfer. Yeah. Okay, well that's everything we have today on brief recess. I'm Michael foot. I'm Melissa Malbrant. I'll see you in court. This has been an exactly right production recorded at I Heart Studios, posted by me, Michael Foot. And me, Melissa Malbrant, our producer is CJ Farone. This episode was edited by Nicholas Galucci. Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain and our guest-booker is Patrick Hotner. Our theme song was composed by Tom Brive-Fogel with artwork from Charlotte Delario MNSA Lilac with photography by Brad Obono. Brief recess is executive produced by Karen Kilgarif, Georgia Hartstark and Danielle Kramer. You can find me on Instagram at Department of Redundancy Department or on TikTok at Michael Foot. And I'm on both Instagram and TikTok as Melissa Malbrant. Got legal questions? Reach out at briefrecessatexactlyrankmedia.com. Listen to brief recess on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And of course, we're a podcast with video. Search for brief recess on YouTube.