Trump Pulls Back in Minneapolis as Democrats Turn Up Pressure on ICE

Dell PCs with Intel inside are built for the moments you plan, and the ones you don't. For the time you forgot your charger at the gate. Passengers, we are now on our initial ascent. Or when you're bouncing between projects like a ping-pong ball. We build PCs with long-lasting battery life so you're not scrambling for a charger. And built in intelligence so you can stay focused on whatever you're doing. Dell Technologies, built for you. Dell.co.uk forward slash Dell PCs. Support for the show comes from Odoo. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odoo. It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that makes your work easier. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce and more. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's odoo.com. Welcome to Raging Models, I'm Scott Galloway. And I'm Jessica Tarliff. Jess, how are you? I'm good. I don't want to be weird, but I miss you. It was like a- Go on! No, I was thinking about it. I was like, is this an appropriate thing to do? But a month is a long time in general. And also, you know, when you get used to somebody, I guess this is what happens, like if you get divorced, right? You got to go out and like date other co-hosts. And I had great conversations with- Who was your favorite co-host? Who was your favorite? When you cheated on me, who was the best? I mean, Heather Cox Richardson was great in Intellectual Bed, to say the least. No, Sarah Lovewell was awesome too. And you know, something that was really great about it, I loved how many female voices we got on. Jennifer Griffin, who's an amazing national security reporter, had a great conversation with her. We need to feature more women on the pod. The ladies are coming. How was your time off and Davos, you know, all the things? It was great. I went to Australia. I got to climb the bridge with the boys. I saw that I'm not in family and said I want to do that. I went to Singapore. My kids had never been there. I was in LA doing some work. Davos, which was interesting and depressing at the same time. And yeah, it's nice to be back. I feel sort of antsy and, but yeah, it's nice to be back. And fortunately, not a lot happened while I was gone. Yeah, no big deal. Slow moving politics in this country. It's weird when you take some time off, when you're not looking at the news every day, which I did not do. I remember when I came home once after being on the road for three weeks. And I popped my head into my kids room. And this was like when I was working really hard. My oldest was six and he was sleeping above his covers. And I could physically discern that he had grown in the three weeks that I'd been gone. And it just really bummed me out. But my point is when you're in the news every day, you're a frog and water that's getting hotter and hotter. And then it's boiling. And then when you come back after an extended break from the news and you see this shit, I was just when I first got to Davos and I was listening to the talks and just the mood and the vibe and annexed it. And I thought it was just so kind of rattling and jarring to see how much things had changed in the last month with the murders in Minnesota. And this annexation discussion and what was going on in Iran. And the two best lines while I was gone were one was by your co-host Heather Cox-Witerton. A lot of people have been talking about the need for better training of these ICE officials. And she had the best line. I don't know if it was on the pod with you. She said, that's like saying that the guards at DACA just needed better training. I thought that was a great line. And then the other line came from Catherine Dillon who essentially runs Propg. Media when I was in Davos and just coming back. And I said, I had spent a lot of time on panels talking about the need for some sort of military intervention to kind of push the Islamic Republic over the edge. And I kept saying, you know, they're executing citizens in the street. And Catherine goes, you realize that's happening in America, right? It was just sort of kind of stopping me in my tracks. Okay. Government executing people in the street, executing citizens in the street. And I hadn't taken the time to stop and go, wait, not on the same scale, but that's happening in the US. Anyways, I am happy to be back in today's episode. We're discussing how Democrats should respond to the aftermath of the murder of Alex Pretti, the GOP's hypocrisy when it comes to the Second Amendment and the new Melania documentary. And what it says about her priorities as First Lady, I'm hoping we do not get to the third subject. That's called a, I could give zero fucks given. Does this change it for you? Melania will be on the five with me tomorrow, the day that this comes out. I don't want to preempt that, but I think she's the worst First Lady in history. Cool. I'll let her know. Yeah. And I don't think I've ever heard her speak. I don't, I know. You have. No, really? That's all I'll let her say. Really? Okay. Anyway. Anyway, I mean. I think that'll be, I think they will afford her. I don't know. That's going to be weird. You got to be, you know, I find that we're appropriately respectful of the First Lady. I think she's not absolutely fucking nothing. And she clearly has, you know, has she spent a night in the White House? Anyways, how many nights have you spent in the White House? Will you ask her that for me? It's been 400 days since he was elected or whatever. Or how is the best working out? 365, 370. How is the what? Be best. Remember her social media bullying campaign. That was her cause. Like reading or getting fit, but it was social media bullying. Yeah. Ask her what she thinks about chain migration that you move here. Mary Rich guy gets citizenship and then get all your family members over. Can you ask that what she thinks of chain migration? You know, I can ask anything I want and I will consider all of these options. Is this unfair? All right. Let's talk about Minneapolis. All right. Let's get into it. The killing of Alex Freddie has pushed Democrats into a fork in the road moment after two U.S. citizens were shot dead by federal immigration agents in Minneapolis. Democrats are threatening to block DHS funding unless ICE is reined in even a risk a partial government shutdown. Meanwhile, pressure is now coming from multiple directions. A federal judge in Minnesota has ordered ICE's acting director to appear in court over what he called extraordinary violations of court orders. While senior border patrol commander Gregory Bovino and some agents are leaving Minneapolis and mid mounting backlash signs that federal crackdown may be hitting its limits. Jess is threatening a shutdown. The only leverage real leverage the Democrats have to force accountability on ICE. And if not, what else could, what else could be done here? I think it's your main source of accountability in Washington. I think we have seen that the biggest source of accountability that you can push for is what the brave people of Minneapolis, St. Paul have been doing in taking to the streets and doing it in, you know, minus 20 degree weather. And in totally fearless fashion, I am continually overwhelmed by how brave and good these people are and the way that they talk about Minnesota values and American values and living by the credos that all of these uber Christians are supposed to like helping your neighbor and taking in the tired and the sick and the poor. They have mobilized so quickly considering this. I mean, the amount of organizations that are working on the ground, the amount of individual citizens that are doing things like running makeshift food pantries and making sure that people who are hiding in their homes or homes of American citizens can get the things that they need. I was talking to someone who's doing this. The orders for diapers and children's medicine through the roof, it's freezing cold there, right? Their kids are getting sick just like my kids are getting sick here and they can't come out of their houses and their neighbors are all stepping up for them. And I think that their example is one for the ages. And so that is a way to get accountability. Greg Bovino out, Kristi Noem and Corey Lewandowski getting, you know, a big talking to by the president. I agree with you from what you said yesterday on our Robert response video that Kristi Noem will not be long for that job. But when the legislators are sitting there in Washington looking at what their options are besides supporting the people of Minneapolis and wherever ICE may go next, this shutdown is the biggest way that they can push for accountability. And I think that it is very smart strategy. So what they want to do to be a little bit boring is they want to take the mini bus spending bill that already exists and chop it up into five or six pieces so that the DHS section can be carved out. I want to note that for people that are saying like, you know, we're going to fund ICE or abolish ICE, ICE is already funded at 87% higher level than it was the year before, even if this $10 billion doesn't go through. That's the amount of money that's in question here. But I think that it is definitely worth continuing to push Senator Thune on it. When the Democrats are asking for five big things in their kind of reform package that DHS must cooperate with state probes, you would think that that would be normal and natural that you would have cooperation when you're investigating things like American citizens that have died, but that has not been the case. That CBP actually stays at the border, not allowed to roam wherever they want. They have to be within that 100 miles that you need a warrant for arresting people or breaking down doors for the amendment. Shout out. Agents have to have IDs and wear body cams and we're waiting for that body cam footage from what happened with Alex Prattie. Apparently a couple of those agents were wearing body cams and ICE has to get out of churches and schools. So those are kind of the five big assets that are percolating in the conversation. What do you think about the shutdown strategy? I like it. I'm just worried that if we cave again after a certain amount of time that we're going to look even weaker. So I'm all about a shutdown as long as we all hold hands around the campfire and agree that we're not going to open until we get something. And my sense is we got nothing the last time. So I'm all for a shutdown. I just don't know if the people who will affect the shutdown have the backbone to, I mean, basically we blanked in the last shutdown. So I'm all for it. But guys, unless you're going to actually wait until something happens, something tangible, unless there's rule given on the other side and you can legitimately claim victory, then we don't need to put the nation through this again. So I've said that our military incursions overseas are like bond films. And that is bond films always nail the opening. They're always amazing. And then they go on to be a bad mediocre or a great film. And democratic actions when they have some power always start really strong and then we cave. So I'm all for it. But if they propose a shutdown, they get a shutdown and we go through this nonsense again and you have parks closed and veterans not getting healthcare and Marines not getting paid. And then after 25 days, we have some incredibly flaccid, impotent 90 year old Democrats stand up and say, it's not working. We're caving. Oh my God, we're going to go to the single digits in terms of popularity. So yeah, I'm all for a shutdown as long as it's real and people understand there's going to be real sacrifices to be made. And it's going to be difficult. So any reaction to that? Yeah. I mean, the good thing about this versus the previous shutdown is it would be a partial shutdown. So it won't be this scale and scope of what happened before. And especially if the bills are... Can you say more about that? What is that? I understand that it's... I like the term you as many of us. What does that mean versus what would the tangible differences in terms of how it impacts ordinary Americans and our federal services? How would this shutdown be different than the last of what I think was a complete government shutdown or threatened at least? Yeah. So essential services, which allegedly kept going during the big shutdown would continue obviously during this. If you are able to target the DHS pot of it, there is concern that you don't want FEMA not to be working, for instance. We're going to have another huge snowstorm next week. So that's on the list of concerns. We all want TSA to continue to work. There are people who also want CBP to continue to work just in its capacity that it should. So that's kind of what's up for discussion at this particular moment in terms of the tangible implications of it. And I think that we'll know a lot more if any of that will come to fruition in the next 24 hours, maybe even when this comes out, because Senator Thune is going to have to make a decision about whether he is going to split it up. If you don't have the bill split, it is going to have much broader implications for Americans. And there are a lot of Republicans who are dug in saying, absolutely not. We don't want to split this. Thune's inclination that he doesn't want to. But it is interesting to see that in your terms, the Cavers, the Senate Democrats who ended up saying in the end, no, actually, let's just reopen the government. I have no appetite for this anymore. Like the Angus Kings of the world, of the word Gene Shaheen, they've all said, absolutely not. Like we're going to the mats on this one. And it's interesting to see the caucus even more united than they were over something like healthcare, which affects every single American. Right? We all need healthcare, whether you're on Medicaid, Medicare, or have private insurance, or some combination. And I think that that energy is going to be put to good use in hopefully pushing us towards some of these reforms that I just read out. Rand Paul, who's the chair of the Homeland Security Committee, very, very powerful, is really hot on this. He wants all of the agents who are involved to be suspended. He's calling out the fact that Alex Pretty was referred to by government officials as a domestic terrorist or would be assassin right out of the gate. And there are other powerful conservative voices that are speaking a similar language to the Democrats. And so hopefully that'll put enough pressure on soon. The other component to it, which I don't know, it doesn't satisfy the same mechanism, I guess, but is this conversation over impeaching Kristi Noem. And Kyle Cheney at Politico has been doing incredible reporting on this. And he's tracked 2,300 cases since July in which federal judges have ruled that ICE has illegally detained people without bond or due process. 2,300 since July in the read and in the intro, you mentioned how Todd Lyons, who's the acting ICE director is going to have to go in front of a judge that is completely unprecedented. You have Tom Homan going into Minneapolis. And there's another guy named Rodney Scott, who is the head of CBP that Lewandowski and Noem had sidelined before who is now being reactivated and is going to be sent to Minneapolis too. So they are moving fast and with a sense of urgency that indicates that they know that this funding showdown is something that would look really, really bad for the administration. And Trump is sensitive to those kinds of optics. The Articles of Impeachment, just for some color on it. Violation of Congress is one article, which is about not letting Congress do their oversight, not letting them into ICE facilities. Violation of the public trust, say First Amendment, Fourth Amendment, Second Amendment now with Alex Pretty. And then also charges of self-dealing for Kristi Noem of inappropriately using tax dollars to do ICE recruitment and giving contracts out to friends, namely senior DHS official Tricia McLaughlin, who is a spokesperson. Her husband got a massive contract and it didn't go through the normal tendering process. So I think that the impeachment of Kristi Noem is looking more and more like a good idea. And John Federman, who said that he doesn't want to shut down the government, came out this morning and said that Kristi Noem must go. So just along the lines of it's the boring stuff that moves the needle, it's important to revisit what you reference. And that is after Renee Good's death, a bunch of Democrats refused to advance legislation that provided funding for ICE, but seven Democrats crossed party lines to pass it in a 220 to 207 votes in the House. And if you look at those numbers, it means that those seven Democrats had in fact gone along with their colleagues and refused to advance legislation that provided funding for ICE, it wouldn't have gone through. And it's important that we hold those people accountable. And the seven representatives were Henry Clare, Rep Don Davis, Rep Lauren Gillan, Representative Jaren Golden, Representative Vicente Gonzalez, Representative Marie Glucenkamp-Perez, and Representative Tom Svose. I think it's important to highlight the Representative Svose has come out and said it was a mistake. And Gillan has as well. Oh, thank you for that. But this ICE funding would have been severed, have those seven Democrats voted to restrict ICE funding. Sorry, I don't want to be like Debbie Downer or Tracy Flick of this podcast, but just to add that if they do split up the spending bill into the individual packages, part of the concern is then it has to go back through the House and you're not going to get the support that you would have, that you got the first time from like Swazi and Gillan for it. I mean, the Texas reps are probably going to hang on and continue to vote for it. So Senator Thune is thinking about that as well, that it would then get kicked back to Mike Johnson and has to go through that process again. And then the question is, what are the demands from the Democratic side to get the funding and Schumer put forward a framework of restrict reform and restrain? Just what the fuck does that mean? Shouldn't the condition be something along the lines of all ICE out of major cities for the rest of 26? Shouldn't it be something that like regular people can fucking understand? So abolishing ICE has its highest level of support that we've ever seen. It's gone up 20 points just from over the summer, 46% support, 41% oppose. Independence are plus 12 on it. Republican support is up 10% over the last six months. The most interesting finding that I saw in the polling around this is that two-thirds of Democrats and the majority of independents say abolish ICE is not quote, abolish immigration enforcement. They want to figure out a way to do this that is commensurate with American values and our judicial system. And the things that I read off in the beginning about making sure that people have warrants and body cams and cooperating with state and local officials when you're doing probes, that's all part of that. But I agree with you that there needs to be some, that bumper sticker effect, right? Like some clear explanation of what a new reformed ICE would be like. It seems like ICE is a name that we are not going to be comfortable with again. So the Democrats should have a clear proposal for that that doesn't involve people, you know, ticking through what we're going to get this, we're going to get this, we probably won't get that, but we're going to get this and we're going to get this. Because I think that you need to find a way to come out there and to say, we know that there are undocumented people in this country that are committing crimes and we need to get out, we need to get them out of here. And I think to some degree that involves also talking about blue city mayors cooperating to get those hardened criminals out. That's what Tom Holman is going to try to do when he's in Minneapolis. It seems like Mayor Fry and Tim Walls are open to those conversations. I'm not talking about, you know, full access to jails in the way that they're asking for. But like in California, they work with ICE all the time to do this. And Brian O'Hara, who's the police chief in Minneapolis, has talked about that too. He did it in Newark where he was the police chief before and he's done it in Minneapolis too. So I think that there is a lot of ground to be gained by sounding like you are not against immigration enforcement writ large and not allowing the right to cast abolish ICE as we don't care who's here. Right? Hundreds of thousands of people streamed across the border on a monthly basis for a couple of years there. And we don't really care who they are because these tragedies happen. You have to care about both. Yeah. So I received an email or a message from someone in the White House borders are Tom Holman's office saying that the people in the office listen to his pot. So I'm just going to ask if they pass along a message that if he removes ICE from Minnesota, I'll give him $51,000. And that's a serious offer of 510,000. Just an extra thousand on the Kava bag? Well, you know, he's done less for 50. So 51K, Zara Holman. Yeah. I don't, I think the Democrats again are demonstrating this restrict restraint bullshit. Like they need specific realistic demands where they can point to a victory. I don't know what even what that means restrict and restraint. What does that mean? So again, we were figuring out a way through what I feel is incredibly weak leadership to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory here. If you try and read the tea leaves, you have said that you believe that the secretary known will be removed, that Holman's moving in, they haven't replaced Mavino. They just asked them to maybe kind of stop getting. They're conflicting reports though. I think that he will be forced into retirement, which one of the reports that I think is what I saw said, you know, that that was coming quickly and it was already on the schedule, could be moving up. So another report that he doesn't have access to a social media accounts anymore because it did such irreparable damage while tweeting away. So I don't think Bavino is going to be a figure that we are going to be seeing a lot of. So you think his days are numbered? That would be my expectation. That would be what would be smart for the administration. And I believe that's what Tom Holman wants. Tom Holman has been fighting against the Stephen Miller, Christina Nguyen-Koriluindowski, Greg Bavino, wing of the government for months now and it has been widely reported that they have been trying to sideline him. And Tom Holman, you know, his approach is even too harsh for me, but Tom Holman has served both Democratic and Republican presidents in the past and has said over and over in interviews, like one on the daily and did a great interview where he talks about his focus on getting hardened criminals out of this country. And I think that that would be a good sign for us if Trump is really ready to hand over the reins. I still worry about Stephen Miller because I worry about Stephen Miller all the time, but we are in much better hands if it's Holman and I'm sure he, there's no love loss there with Christina Nguyen-Koriluindowski. I'm sure he would be just fine seeing her. That's where we are. We're hoping for Holman. Hoping for Holman. So the, there are cracks many, I mean real fidgers beginning to emerge and form here at the New York Times, Santa University poll from this month said 61% of voters believe that ICE tactics had gone too far. My question is who had the 39% but anyways, many Republicans have also expressed concern and have called for an investigation. Senator, Senators Murkowski, Cassidy and Tillis have all asked for investigations, even Representative James Comer of Kentucky who has been a staunch ally of the president suggested on Fox News' Sunday morning futures that Mr. Trump should consider removing ICE agents from Minneapolis and sending them elsewhere. Trump's overall approval rating has slid to 38% according to the latest orders. Ipsos poll matching the lowest mark of the second term and there are now 140 co-sponsors unable to impeach Kristi Noem. So this does, it does appear as if these cracks are turning into pretty broad sinkholes if you will. All right, with that, let's take a quick break. Stay with us. Support for the show comes from Hems. You don't just want to lose weight, you want to look better and feel better. That's why weight loss by Hems now offers access to the FDA approved WGOVY pill and the FDA approved WGOVY pen. WGOVY is designed to help you lose weight and keep it off so you can stay on track with your goals. With WGOVY at Hems, you can lose up to 20% or more of your body weight when combined with diet and exercise. It can help you regulate your appetite and eat less, so success is within reach. Plus, WGOVY is the first ever GLP1 pill for weight loss, so there are no needles needed. Plus, Hems has everything online. You'll connect with a licensed provider who will determine if the treatment is right for you. Ready to reach your goals? Visit Hems.com slash Moderates to get a personalized, affordable plan that gets you. Visit Hems.com slash Moderates. Weight loss by Hems is not available in all 50 states. WGOVY is the registered trademark of Novo Nordisk AS. To get started and learn more, including important safety information, WGOVY clinical study information and restrictions, visit Hems.com. Support for the show comes from Odo. Introducing a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odo. It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that makes your work easier. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce and more. And the best part? Odo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you? Try Odo for free at odu.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com. Support for the show comes from Fetch Pet Insurance. Do you have a pet? Every six seconds, a pet owner in the US gets hit with a vet bill of over a thousand dollars. And it's almost always an unwelcome surprise. That's where Fetch Pet Insurance comes in. Fetch is the most complete pet insurance. Paid back up to 90% of vet bills. You can use any vet in the US and Canada. All vets are in network. Go to fetchpet.com slash save right now for your free quote. That's fetchpet.com slash save. Welcome back. The killing of Alex Pretty has blown open a glaring contradiction at the heart of Republican policies and beliefs, specifically something central to the Republican Party and that is gun rights. For decades, the GOP has argued that the Second Amendment exists to protect citizens from an overreaching federal government. Let's say that again. The Second Amendment exists to protect citizens from an overreaching federal government. Yet now, Trump officials are arguing that a man lawfully carrying a gun somehow forfeited that right and deserved lethal force. As even the NRA and gun rights groups push back, the question isn't whether Pretty was exercising a legal right. It's why that right suddenly seems to disappear when federal agents pull the trigger. Just how does the GOP square its longstanding warnings about tyrannical government with defending federal agents who kill a citizen for lawfully carrying a firearm? I think some of them are just trying to bury their head in the sand and you're seeing with many others the majority of them in how they're responding to this that they have loved their gun longer than they have loved Donald Trump and that this is the one amendment that they are not willing to play his little games with. I think that in particular hit the gun rights community hard to see an administration official, the first assistant US attorney, this guy Bill Asailly, who tweeted, if you approach law enforcement with a gun, there's a high likelihood they will be legally justified in shooting you. And seeing it in black and white doesn't allow you to live in the chaos that the Trump administration thrives on, right? Because they can't use their echo chamber against that because that's just freely available for you to look at and to read. And then that fact that Trump also posted a photo of Alex Pretty's gun, you know how they removed it and then they took a picture of it like sitting in the front seat of a car. And Trump wrote, this is the gunman's gun loaded parentheses with two additional full magazines, but we haven't seen the magazines. And it says, and ready to go, what is that all about? I think that having the tangible evidence of how this administration actually views the second amendment when they please is what really felt threatening to so many people in the conservative party, the gun rights activists, but also just the regular Trump supporters. And they've been posting videos all over social media saying, I voted for Trump three times. We cannot stand for this. The second amendment means something very specific. And I've seen a resurfaced old Charlie Kirk tweet that they're using about the second amendment and how the point of it is to rise up to be able to rise up against a tyrannical government. I just wanted to shout out John Stuart. His monologue was great. But he said, I wasn't shocked when you guys gave up the first amendment and I wasn't shocked when you gave up the fourth and the 10th and the 14th that Trump's behest. But the second, come on guys, guns are your whole personality and way better delivery than I did, obviously. But I think that you're really seeing that come to fruition. And this reminder as well that Trump is new to Republican politics. On a relative basis. I mean, this guy is independent from Queens, right? Like he's not somebody who was carrying a gun, let alone caring about what happens when you need to rise up against your government. He was building high rises here and opening hotels. And I think that they see how weak he is on one of the most serious issues to them. The best argument that the NRA has ever made and the best argument for the second amendment in my view, and I'm not a gun rights person. I'm one of the things I love about the UK is I'm just never worried about someone popping off a cap when I'm watching, you know, the fantastic four at a movie theater. But the best argument I've ever heard calls on history. And that is when the Nazis marched into Poland and France and other European countries. Those countries had done a very meticulous job of tracking gun ownership. And the first thing the Nazis did was get ahold of those records and then go around the city and collect all the guns from the civilian population. Such that there was no ability to push back. That is, in my opinion, a really, really valid argument. And also to be fair, gun owners similar to Mr. Pretty, who go through the training and are legally licensed to carry and conceal and carry are seven to 10 times less likely to commit a crime than ordinary citizens. Now, there's some other data when this moment you buy in a gun, you're more likely to kill yourself, unfortunately, because it's like, OK, you wake up, things are bad, things are really dark. And like, I know I'm an answer to this problem. But in terms of people who go through the popper training and have no criminal record, which Mr. Pretty did not, if you just look at the data, these people are less likely to commit a crime than someone wandering around without a gun who might have committed a misdemeanor. So this really does fly in the face. And then you have all these pictures popping up that I love of Kyle Rittenhouse, who shows up to a demonstration, brandishing a semi-automatic rifle. And that and then those turned our posters and collateral and he's invited to the Republican National Convention. So this really does appear to be, I don't think that's the second biggest fissure with the American public. I do think the American public, certain Judeo-Christian values are certain, like to think that we're the good guys and we hold on to a set of principles and morals. And when Secretary Noam came out and basically defecated on the grave and the memory of this individual by calling him a domestic terrorist and basically saying he was there to, I believe it was, what do they say, murder federal agents or what was the term? Massacre. It's just there is a certain decorum that when people die, you try to give them the benefit of the doubt. That you don't urinate on their tombstone and start lying. I think that in my view, I think that was the moment I saw that and I thought, okay, granted, I do not understand many of the motivations and the forces that got President Trump elected by. I thought, I think that's the moment when a lot of people said, okay, this has just gone way too far. I'm sort of curious around how your co-hosts on the five are responding to the gun rights issue because what I was, if I didn't know what the five was, I would assume it's the most liberal talk show in history. I would think it was the view because all I get is clips of you making very strong points that are not left, but what I'll call center left. So if my only, if my only interact, if I didn't know what the five was, I would think it was this crazy liberal show on the Mother Jones network because all I get are clips of you because the, I guess the algorithm has figured out, I know you and I like your views. But when their face, what is the general retort back around Mr. Freddie and the contradiction of gun rights here from the other four members of the five? Well, it's definitely the algorithm that has us synced up because I can assure you that a good half of the internet thinks that I'm the stupidest woman that ever lived. And it's making unfair comparisons because I did bring up Kyle Rittenhouse who not only showed up with a gun brandished a gun, shot and killed two people, injured another one, found not guilty that he was, it was self defense, but much more controversial situation than what Alex Freddie did and certainly considering the fact that he was disarmed when he got 10 bullets in him. I was actually surprised because we, we talked right before I went into work yesterday and I thought that there would be more agreement about what had happened. And I got into it a bit with Kayleigh McEnany, who was Donald Trump's press secretary in the first term. And she agreed. How is she thirsty? She is definitely there for one person trying to get another job. That's how I read it, whatever. The job is way better for her. For sure. I would not. Kayleigh is not leaving, but she was talking about how I jumped to a conclusion in saying that Alex Freddie was murdered and had this line that I was no better than Christine Noem and doing it. And I was one of those, could it, what it should have? Because right after I was like, you should have just, you should have just said, I'm not the head of the Department of Homeland Security. I'm not responsible for the security and safety of 330 million Americans. I am somebody who is paid for my opinion and I have watched a ton of video on this and listened to a lot of people in positions of power, including governors, states like Oklahoma and Vermont, who have said the same thing. But that's my coat of water shutout. On the gun rights issue, it was really interesting listening to Joey Jones, who is a veteran, lost both of his legs with an IED incident. He's a gun owner. There are many pictures of him on the internet with his closet of guns or his whole basement of it. It is a lot of guns. He said something about being a Second Amendment absolutist and then went into things that Alex Freddie had done wrong. And that argument doesn't make a ton of sense to me because the people who you're seeing online and the NRA and all these gun rights groups are Second Amendment absolutists in the absolute sense. And it brings up this question of what are the things that you're doing that maybe put you into a less safe environment, which definitely going to a protest is less safe than sitting on your couch and watching heated rival. But that there were things that Alex Freddie did that put him in more of a vulnerable position, like allegedly, though we don't know, he didn't have his permit and his ID on him. Again, we have no verification that that was the case. And just the act of having a gun when you go sends a signal that you are there as an agitator versus as a peaceful protester. Now, I don't see things that way, but this is somebody who has a very big voice in the military community and the conservative community. That was his take on it. And you can look that up online and people liked that just as much as they liked me talking about the comparison with Kyle Retton House. So that's what I heard yesterday. Well, FBI Director Caspartel said, open quote, you cannot bring a firearm loaded with multiple magazines to any sort of protest that you want. It's that simple. A Director Patel, have you have you seen any of the footage from January 6 or the guns there? So those folks were in the wrong. They did not have rights to bear arms at that protest. Also, this is a bit of a, this is a tangent and a side note, but something that struck me, I don't think, and I'm guilty of this, what affects a lot of big tech CEOs is that they don't understand the vulnerabilities of certain special interest groups because they've never been victims themselves. They're mostly white dudes who have grown up in wealthy households. And I'm guilty of this. I remember during COVID, my sister, I was walking with my sister and she jumped out of her skin when a homeless person kind of stirred and crossed the street. And I said, that was a bit of an overreaction. She said, Scott, you're 6'2", 190, easy for you to say. And it dawned on me that men live in a different world. And I just really come to bear or front center for me recently, one tracking some of the comments you get. And also someone left a voicemail in Kara, who's unafraid, played the voicemail on pivot. And it was so angry and vile. And I said, or I said, I know I have just as many people who don't agree with my views as don't agree with yours. I never get those voicemails. And there's also to your, some of your comments, the really violence, there's a twinge of threat of violence and just plain misogyny that men don't have to put up with. And by the way, I'm someone who believes that if you're a true feminist and will know when we have equality, when you're subject to the same bullshit that we're subject to, I think that's what equality is. But what I would suggest to a lot of young men is to recognize what I did not recognize. And that is there is an unfortunate, thin, it's not even a vein, but it's a thin avenue of river of people, especially men who are more comfortable saying really vile, borderline, threatening violence statements to women than they do to men. And some of the comments I've seen in your feed and some of the comments I see in Kara's feed and some of the feedback she gets, there's a twinge of, you know, bitch, be careful. I'm coming for you. Yeah. And men just do not receive that bullshit. And to recognize if you are a young man that it's, you have to force yourself to have more empathy and turn the volume down and acquit yourself with more grace, because unfortunately there is a large vein of people, especially men and also some women, the woman who left this vile man. Misogyny takes, misogyny is not sequestered to just men. But to recognize, all right, would these statements fly? Or is there an unhealthy vein of threat here? Because the target, you know, has indoor plumbing. But I have finally recognized that, you know, it's like, we'll get comments of like, well, welcome to our world, Scott. But long-winded way of saying young men, I think need to realize that you live around these things, around threat in a different world than women face. All right, my virtue signaling TED talk is over. I liked it. And it's true. And it's a, especially once you become a mom and you are responsible for protecting these little people, you are, have a heightened awareness for the level of. threat, obviously, I'm in a particular profession that brings it on more, but you're, you know, mama bearing all the time. And Tara is bolder than I am. I, I get really freaked out and very upset with the new administration of Twitter, because also when you put in the report of threats, which seem quite obvious. Sometimes they'll write back and say, oh, it doesn't meet our, our standards for that. And you're like, what are your fucking standards? If not, like you deserve to die. So anyway, there you go. All right, let's take a quick break. Stay with us. Big news this week for all my Gordon geckos, my Robin hooters, my Claude squad and thropic, which is newly the most valuable AI company in suburb, announced it would be going public. That news follows reporting that open AI plans to go public as soon as September. And that that news follows reporting that space X, which also considers itself an AI company, will be going public in maybe just a few weeks from now. Welcome to the era of the Omega IPO. We are about to see millionaires, billionaires, and yes, probably even the world's first trillionaire created overnight. And yes, it's that guy. This is the chainsaw for bureaucracy. But all the tech bros who are going to make all the money, they need our money way more than we need their products. And we're going to remind you why on today's explain from Vox. I'm Seth Matlin's my new show creator destroy reimagining marketing explores how every decision a company makes, not just the marketing ones, but the HR, pricing or design and planning ones, the ones most don't consider marketing at all contribute to either creating value or destroying it. Each week I sit down with CMOs, CEOs, founders, cultural thinkers, the people building, breaking and reimagining how businesses grow or don't for conversations about what creates value and what destroys it. It's a business show. It's a marketing show. Creator destroys the show that argues they've always been the same thing from the Vox media podcast network in the wisdom is coming. New episodes drop weekly on YouTube and your favorite podcast app. Welcome back before we go just hours after federal immigration agent shot and killed Alex Freddie in Minneapolis. The Trumps were inside the White House hosting a movie night for their billionaire friends. Part of Melania Trump's reemergence into the spotlight this week are heavily marketed Amazon back documentary Melania, which comes out on Friday and reportedly earns her a $40 million payday from the deal. So I asked one of the folks who are prof G to stream this and then put it on one of those old machines that puts it on VHS tape such that I could get the tape and put it in my VHS recorder and player, which I still have so I could erase it. Is that wrong? Jess, is that wrong? I don't think it's the best use of a prof G employees time. But I think it's kind of cool. You saw VHS player. Is that for home videos? None of that was true. It was an attempt to be funny. I see this as more as just this is just another example of Amazon. I am, you know, I've been, I don't know if you've heard this, Jess, but I'm the executive producer of original scripted drama coming out next. I can't hear that. Yeah. No, it's sort of a big deal in Hollywood now. And I've gotten to know or understand a little bit about the world of documentaries and everything. And it's actually interesting enough. There's a bidding war for Ed Norton's new film at Sundance. I heard that yesterday. That's awesome. Congratulations, Ed. But for Melania Trump to have received $40 million, this is nothing. This is kind of along the lines of putting money in a crypto account for the president. That first off, that documentary would have never been made because she's a strikingly uninteresting person in a very interesting situation. But $40 million for documentary just doesn't happen. So this is an attempt by Andy Jassy and the good folks at Amazon to just curry favor with the White House and the administration, which is another form of kind of soft corruption. Anyways, are you going to see the documentary, Jess? I wasn't really planning on it. Like I mentioned at the beginning, she's going to be on the show tomorrow. So, you know, we'll ask her some of your thoughtful, proposed questions. I just wanted to add that it was the $40 million for the documentary and they've also spent $35 million promoting it. And early reports are that the tickets aren't selling, which doesn't surprise me here and abroad. And I think that it's going to be one of those kind of inside baseball things where it's the, you know, the toast of Mar-a-Lago and has no resonance outside of that bubble. And I get it. The Trump administration is a big pay for play scheme. And why would that be any different when it comes to the First Lady versus what you would be paying to the president himself? But I do always wonder, and I mean, I like a compliment as much as the next girl, probably a little bit more than the next girl. And everyone likes to be flattered and things like that. But it really eats at me when I think that somebody is being nice to me or giving me false praise because they want something or they think I can help them with something. And what must it feel like when you're just being flattered and sucked up to all the time and that it has nothing to do with actual merit or who you are as a person? That's what I really struggle with. And that goes for all of them. Like it doesn't, you know, Trump standing there holding Maria Machado's Nobel poster that he, that she made for him. Like he was a six year old. Like how can you live with yourself if you are that dependent on false adulation from people who are actually doing important things with their lives? I think you're being a little harsh. I think it's a dramatic story of a quiet desperation of having to marry a billionaire and still feeling underpaid. I got that joke. You know, I might just watch it because I want to hear how the subtitles handle. I'll turn subtitles on. I want to hear how the subtitles handle really long pauses of someone who doesn't understand the question. Is that wrong? That's probably a hate crime. I'll give it this. Have it become a subtitle person, by the way, though. I put it on for private. And now I love it. Next thing you know, you'll be watching TV and your legals twitching like, oh my God, I have restless leg syndrome. I need to get that drug being advertised. Yeah, yeah, I don't. Jesus Christ, let's move on. There's nowhere to move. It's the end of the show. It's the end of the show. There we go. Good luck with Melania, Jess. Thanks. Del PCs with Intel inside are built for the moments you plan and the ones you don't. For the time you forgot your charger at the gate. Passengers, we are now on our initial ascent. Or when you're bouncing between projects like a ping pong ball. We build PCs with long lasting battery life so you're not scrambling for a charger. And built in intelligence so you can stay focused on whatever you're doing. Del technologies, built for you. Del.co.uk forward slash del PCs.