1427 - Bruce Cheated on his First Wife, then Started Swinging with his Second Wife

If you want to be on the show, it's called Strictly Anonymous because I change everybody's voices and everyone's name. So if you have an interesting naughty secret life or even just regular not so naughty life that you want to talk about while remaining anonymous or not anonymous, if you're out and proud, that's cool too. You can be on the show. I also look for like health related stories now. I have a sexual health Saturdays. So if you have any kind of interesting health story, I love stuff like that health and fitness story, you could send me an email at strictlyanonymouspodcast at gmail.com or just go to my website, strictlyanonymouspodcast.com and click on be on the show. If you have a naughty confession that you want to leave on my Confessions Hotline, you could do that 24 seven, the numbers three, four, seven, four, two, oh, three, five, seven, nine, that's three, four, seven, four, two, oh, three, five, seven, nine. Some of those confessions make it onto a Confessions episode and I talk about them. The rest of them all go up on my Patreon. My Patreon is a great place. Listen, if you're annoyed with these beginning intros and you don't want to hear f-ing ads and you want to see hot picks of all the females who have called into my show, plus take part in all of the polls and questions and contests we have over on my Patreon, join my Patreon for just $7 a month. That's like super cheap. I also throw in a complimentary link to my private Discord. My Discord is great. We're having the annual Dick Pick Contest coming up in April. So you want to join so you could take part in the infamous Dick Pick Contest. Last year, we did the Dick Pick Contest. We got like 250 Dick Picks. Okay. Winner is going to get 300 bucks. Okay. So if you want to join that, you got to get into my Discord. I do throw in complimentary access to my private Discord. If you join my Patreon, like I said, it's just $7 a month and you could cancel it anytime or you could buy my book. I have a book. It's called Strictly Non-Miss Confessions, Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers. It's now available not only in paperback and ebook, but you can pre-order the audiobook. It's still not going to be out till August 25th, but you can pre-order it. The book is basically 17 different stories taken from my show, told in the third person. There are quick short stories, think like Penthouse Forum letters or naughty true stories all in one book. If you get my book on Amazon or wherever you buy books, you could get it. Send me a screenshot of your order and I'll also give you complimentary access to my private Discord. My Discord is f-ing great. That's where you could go in and post your own stuff. My Discord is super fun. People get very naughty on there. We have lots of contests, tons of different channels with all kinds of content, but it is private and I only give links to either my guests. If you call into the show, you get a link to my Discord or get my book or join my Patreon. You get it from all that. Last thing I want to tell you about is if you are looking to get into the lifestyle, the site I recommend to everybody is SDC.com. SDC.com is like the world's largest online adult dating site, but it's so much more than a dating site. It's more than a pickup place. You go on there. You're going to learn everything about the lifestyle. They have live events. They have educational stuff that you could learn on there. They also will tell you where all the gangbangs and swinger clubs and orgies and parties that are going on in your area and your neighborhood or if you're traveling, you can find out what's going on there too. That's what's great about SDC. It's like a one-stop shop for the lifestyle. If you use my code 37712, you're going to get a free trial so you could check it out. Go to SDC.com, use code 37712, or just go to the description and click on the link. All the links, everything I told you about including my Patreon is in the description. Okay, today I have on Bruce. I love Bruce's story because I love a good biography. Bruce's story spans many years. He talks about his first marriage, which was very vanilla and not so great in the bedroom. He talks about the issues with his wife. I'm not going to tell you them. Now you're going to have to listen, but he had two very major issues with his wife that wasn't, he wasn't getting at home in the bedroom and he started to have affairs. He started to cheat and he went pretty extreme. He talks about how far he took his cheating. He eventually got divorced and then he met another woman and got married. The whole transition with his wife and everything, it's funny how he tells the story because he drops interesting facts about a story at the weirdest times, not when I ask, but you wind up getting the whole picture, which is fascinating. You're going to have to listen, but he does wind up with another woman and he winds up swinging with that woman. They don't do hardcore swinging. They never swap with anyone or even soft swap, but they do go to swinger clubs for many years together and watch people and have sex in front of people and all that kind of good stuff. And that was something he always wanted to try and do. And then at a certain point in their, in their relationship, she did shut that down and didn't want to. And he explains why and when that happened. And he explains, you know, how and why he's never cheated on her. Both of his marriages are around the same amount of time. He does redeem himself. If you ask me as a cheater, he did go to therapy after his first wife and, you know, he thought maybe he had an issue or a problem and he talks about that. And, but he also talks about how and why he's remained completely faithful to his first wife and why he's happy about that. This wasn't a guy that was cheating the first time around and without any guilt. He actually felt immense guilt and hated that. So it's a super interesting story. I think it's always interesting to get into the mind of a cheater. I definitely believe that once a cheater, always a cheater is not a true statement and he's here to prove that point. So anyway, I'm going to get right to it and be right back on with Bruce. Hey, Bruce, welcome to the Strictly Anonymous Podcast. How are you today? I could hear you breathing, Bruce. Move the phone. If you stop hearing me breathe, tell me quickly. I will. I will. That'll be a great episode. I saved someone's life on my episode. He was so excited about his story passed down and died. Anyway, yeah. So your story is an interesting one. I love a good cheating story and your story has ups and downs. I like an episode that reads like a good book. The short story is vanilla married, have an affair, leave your marriage. You always wanted to get into the lifestyle. You wind up becoming a swinger or going to swing your clubs. I don't know. I'll get the whole details. And now you're vanilla again, which I think is super interesting. I don't think I've ever had that trajectory, but I like the ups and downs and the, you know, it's like you've kind of come full circle, which I don't think is a bad thing. Well, it depends upon your perspective. Well, it depends on the story. Let's hear it. I mean, if you're fucking in love, you got it all out of your system. You fucked a ton of people. You lived your swinging lifestyle fantasies and now you met someone that you care about and you have no desire to fuck anyone else. That's a great story. What's wrong with that? You're doing what you want, you know? Well, you're trapped in another vanilla marriage and you're drooling over your past swinger life and you wish you could go back and you're about to have another affair. Well, then that's a, that's not such a great story. No, the latter will never happen. Okay, good. I've been through one divorce. I'm not going through another. Well, okay, let's go all the way back. Save the details for the story. Okay. All the way back. Yeah, let's go all the way back. Okay. So you get married. Let's get, let's start with like, you know, how long you're married before you start having an affair. Were you always a cheater? No, that's a maybe kind of. Yeah, maybe. I think it's, it's the parameters or the situation you're in and listening to your broadcast and other quote cheaters and the quotes, the common denominator, and you've brought this up over and over again, is, is if you don't get in your marriage, you're going to go out and find what you want. And basically, I was married 28 years before I got divorced. And I didn't, I didn't kiss my wife for 22 of those 28 years. Wow. Yeah. And I mean, you know, a kiss a peck. But I get it. I get it. No passionate making out. So, so the, the, the, the the precipitating event was when I was dating my first wife, she was giving me a blow job and I lost it, came in her mouth a little bit and that ended oral sex. Really? Why? Why? Because you slightly gist in her mouth and she was so horrified, like, I'm never fucking blowing you again because God forbid you jizz in my mouth. Yes. Yes. Oh my God. Women are so nutty. Oh my God. And so the closest thing I got to oral sex was talk, talking about it. That's almost worse actually. Yeah. And so, you know, for the longest time, I would have quote affairs in which I go and make out and maybe have oral sex, but not, not have penetration and intercourse because I could rationalize that. And then, you know, after you have done that for a while, the women who you're making out with then, who's performing oral sex would like to have penetrating sex and one thing leads to the next and that's what happened. And then, from your previous podcast, I can assure you that it was tremendous guilt, tremendous guilt to the point that I would make sure that if I screwed around, I would not go home and have to make love to my wife because I couldn't get it up. It was just so guilt written, but after a couple of days, you know, somehow it dissipates the guilt, guilt dissipates. So this went on for years and toward the, toward the end of my marriage, I used to call them double heteros, double headers and triple headers. By that, I mean, I'd have one or two women a day, a night. Oh, I call that, I call that double dipping, triple dipping. Double dipping. I like double headers. And a couple times, I had triple, triple dipping. Wow. And so I think I have, what I consider to be normal sex drive for a 20, 30 year old individual and 40 year old individual. So then I got divorced, met a woman. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, we can't get too past your divorce. I mean, because are you, do you swing with this one? I just want to stick with your affairs a little bit. I feel like we need to discuss that. Okay, go ahead. A little bit. Yeah, sure. I mean, do you get divorced because your wife ever finds out that your guilt ever like, you know, get you to sabotage this whole thing and she caught you? No, I never got caught. Okay, that's good. On the other hand, on the other hand, I've had people tell me that she didn't see the obvious and refused to see the obvious. And she didn't want to see the obvious, of course. Exactly. Plenty of women live that way. I admire those women. I wish I could be like that. Well, yes. And the interesting thing is that we would occasionally address this problem of making out and, and she would say she's not a good kisser. And I said, I've never ever told you how does she know how she ever made out with herself? I mean, didn't you guys make out when you when you first dated? That's like the weirdest thing. Oh my God, that's was she trying to say you were a bad kisser? No, she was saying she didn't enjoy it. I mean, before she was a virgin when we got married. Okay. And we did everything but penetrative sex. Okay, I mean, I could bring her to orgasm manually. She could bring me to orgasm manually. Oh, she waited till marriage to have actual sex with you. Yes. Okay, she was that vanilla or that like traditional, you know, conservative, very conservative household, very good, very conservative religious upbringing. And so, you know, use it and again, in my mindset at that age, it was, you know, I'm going to marry a virgin, you know, I'm blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And that, and that shows my stupidity. And then you were born in the wrong time. If you were like, you know, dating women to marry now, not one girl would be a virgin before you fucked her or married her or anything. But back in your day, most, a lot of women were that way. I mean, that's just what the world you lived in in order for a man to get sex. He had to get married. Yeah. And the other thing, we didn't have the pill and we didn't have, and we didn't have abortion. So if you got a girl pregnant, you either married her or you supported that kid. So that was a, that was a huge turnoff. And then you get married and two or three thoughts have run through my head over the years. Number one, in my rationalization for swinging, if you will, is that the male species in the animal kingdom tries to sow his seed and as far and as wide as possible. And, and I don't think it's just because you're a human being that that animalistic behavior is a risk. I think it's, it's still in there because you're, you are an animal right at the end of the day. Yeah. And the other thing that I think is interesting is that in, in the years that I grew being young, you know, it's like you stayed a virgin, you got married, and then your wife's supposed to be a whore. And, you know, if she hasn't experienced sex or, or, or much experience, you know, you learn together and she either goes along with the program or she doesn't. Now, the other interesting facet of education, if you will, is pornography. And I remember one time later in my marriage, I brought home a videotape and I mean, it was like you don't bring that trident to my home. Yeah. And, and so I've recognized as I've gotten older that I enjoy porn. My president wife enjoys looking at porn with me. And it's a turn on for both of us. And as you get older, you need more and more stimulation and pornography offers that. And in addition, it's, it's an educational tool. Okay, it's finally getting warmer outside. So warm that I actually just started to unpack my spring and summer clothes. And of course, every time I do that, I think to myself like, Oh my God, I need more stuff, but not just more stuff. I need good stuff that is not only reliable, but high quality too. And that's where Quinn's comes in. Quinn's makes high quality everyday essentials using premium materials. Their men's linen pants and shirts are lightweight, breathable and comfortable. So they're perfect for spring. They have a whole new line of spring products to choose from. And the best part is their prices are 50 to 60% less than similar brands. How do they do that? Well, Quinn's works directly with the factories and they cut out the middle man. So you get high quality items without the high quality markup. Everything I've got from Quinn's I have loved. I've got their men's sweats and t-shirts for my son. I bought a bunch of different cashmere sweaters for myself in the winter. And recently I bought a pair of leggings for the gym, which were so soft and high end. I went and bought them in another color. And I also wound up throwing in a candle from their new spring collection. And it was like a high end candle at a low end price. Okay, it was only $24, but the smell lingered in my apartment just like a $78 candle. The leggings were 45, but they were equivalent to a pair that was 95. I promise you, okay, you will be blown away by their attention to detail and the quality of their products. That's what sets Quinn's apart. So now that spring is right around the corner, go refresh your wardrobe at Quinn's. Go to quince.com slash strictly nonfort free shipping and 365 day returns now available in Canada too. Go to quince.com slash strictly a nonfort free shipping and 365 day returns. That's quince.com slash strictly a non or just go to the description and click on the link. And you know, you can see what other people are doing. You can try it or not try it. Yeah. So, so basically, that was why I was screwing around in my first marriage. Let me ask you a couple of questions about that first marriage. So like you said, you know kissing, no blow jobs because she didn't want to swallow. And one time you almost you slightly came in her mouth and then she stopped blow jobs. Was she giving you regular sex and was she enjoying regular sex with you? Yes. Okay. Yes. But no kissing. She never liked to kiss. No kissing. No. Okay. And the other thing is she didn't know how to handle a man. A penis. I mean, she take my dick and flip it back and forth. You know, I was opposed to a robot. And massage it. You know, she didn't know. Right. Because she this is a woman who never watched porn or anything, right? Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. And I mean, she enjoyed sex. We'd have sex. She enjoyed it. But you know, when you're young and a newlywed, I dreamt the day that I could last more than 30 seconds. Last more than 30 seconds. You know, now at my age, I can last, you know, a hell of a longer than 30 seconds. But when you're when you're young and in a newlywed, it's like you want to try and last as long as possible. She was also kissing, but listen, she was kissing you in the beginning. She was blowing you in the beginning. Like nothing, it just never starts out like where it winds up. It's always great in the beginning. Why would you marry that person? And also, I'm sorry, but first wives are always so different than second wives because you marry your first wife for very different reasons than why you marry a second wife. I love to see pictures of first wife versus second wife material because they're always very different types of women. First wife is like the mother of your children, the person your family is going to be close with. You know what I mean? You're young. I don't know. There's just so much more invested in that first wife than sex. Second wife, you're going to fuck and you're going to travel and you're going to have fun. So, you know, most likely she's going to be a little bit kind of a different kind of woman. I'm sorry. Oh, for sure. For sure. I'm more second wife material. I was never first wife material. And that's okay because I never wanted to be a fucking wife and cook and clean for some guy. It was like I'd rather kill myself. But you know, that's it's just a very true thing. But all these great women though that did want to do all those things were available and you know, you weren't just you didn't just pick her for sex. I mean, she wound up being the mother of your children. You know, you have a partnership with her. There's a lot more going at state. Yes. And as a mother of your children and you have common denominators and common issues. And then, you know, once your your kids have left the house, the empty nest syndrome, suddenly it's you too having to put up with each other and figure out how you're going to make the next 40 years of your life fun, lively and everything else. Yeah, no, I know it's a common kind of a thing. Let me ask you this though about all the people you had affairs with. I mean, where would you meet them? Did they were they typically married women themselves? Yes. Yes. Although there were there were a few single ones. Okay. And they were just like coming for like, you know, side sex or whatever. Because I mean, you were just like banging them and leaving like, I mean, this wasn't like, when you say affairs, are these like you're you're seeing them outside of the bedroom as well? Or just did feelings ever go on between and you and any of these women? Or was it strictly sex? Most of the time it was strictly sex. I mean, there's friendship, I'm sure that grows. Oh, yeah. Yeah, there's friendship. Yeah. And it was people. This is a listening to some of your podcasts. I broke the first rule on that is, you know, you don't dip your pen in company ink. And and I find that I can get close to the people I work with. And there's a mutual respect. And pretty soon that respect turns into more than friendship and touching, etc. etc. Oh my god, that's a boundary issue, Bruce. Yes. Yes, depending on who you are in the office. I don't know. That's right. Yeah. Oh my god. And the other thing when I was single, I never, never was able to go into a bar and pick up a woman and take him home and fuck her. Never, ever happened. But once you got, well, back up, you'll find this story interesting. I dated once I got engaged, my personality or interacting with women changed. And I got engaged and a week later, I had a woman outright proposition me. And I'm going, where in the hell were you a week ago when I wasn't engaged? Oh my god, you had the stink on you of unavailability with some women. Fine. Very attractive. That's right. Yeah. And the other thing is that once you've had sex, if you didn't have much sex, I mean, penetrative sex before marriage, once you have it, you begin saying, well, what did I miss? What did I miss? What am I missing? And you start looking around thinking, is this all there is? Yeah. And I have, I had an older brother who shared with me that he had gone to, I think it was Plato's in New York. Oh, okay. This is where the swinging seeds get planted for you. Yes. And I said, what? You got to be kidding me. And he said, no, you're going to play those and people are fucking and there's all sorts of stuff going on. And it just blew my mind. I didn't even know something like that existed. And I saw, so it's going to, not my employee, but another employee at work who shared with me that she'd been to Plato's in New York. And it was a mind-blowing experience. So fast forward, I thought I would love to try that out. So, you know, finally got to go to a swingers club. And it was, all it was cracked up to being more. And the person I went with made it crystal clear that there was going to be no touching. It was going to be purely watching. And I was so grateful to be able to go to the club that I said, that's fine with me. I will not touch. And so I'm a voyeur. I'm exhibitionist. When I was growing up, my parents, everybody walked around the house naked, you know, at all ages, like until you went to high, like until you left the house, everyone was still naked. Now, I guess in high school, we didn't particularly walk around. But I mean, if you walk around your underwear or whatever, it was common in other countries, you know what I mean? It's only in America where we're very uptight about new. Very modest. You have to keep your body clean also. But to someone who's never been to a club, I mean, if you want to have your mind blown, go to a club, go to the orgy room, go to the individual room. I mean, it is, it is visually, visually stimulated. Okay, well, let's get there then. Let's start to talk about your swinging days. I mean, how long were you in those clubs for? I would say probably two or three years. Okay. We go, we go periodically, a couple times in New Year's Eve, a couple times in Halloween. All right. I want specific. Slow it down. Okay, let's get there. So you wind up getting divorced from your wife. She never finds out that you're a cheater. But to everybody else, you're one of those, I mean, we all know them. You were one of those obvious like this guy's a fucking player. He's definitely cheating on his wife kind of guy, but she never accused you, brought it up, and she never caught you, correct? No, no, no. Okay. And none of your girls ever blasted you, you got out. Why did you guys get divorced? Did she, I mean, because typically a guy, a man won't leave a woman unless he has another woman who came and said, let's get divorced. Her, was she like, I'm sitting like, you're complaining about the lack of sex and intimacy and all, all like, what would she, what was she complaining about? Probably a lack of communication. She, I remember she said one time, we're just two ships passing in the night. Yeah, that's a problem. And, and yeah, it is. And she said, we need it. We need to sit and talk. And I said, no, no, no, no, no, we need to sit and talk. Yeah, she was right. So we did sat and talk and it came out that, you know, I wanted a divorce. So, oh, you did. Yeah. I said, you know, I don't think it's working anymore. And so my schedule is busy. So she went, hired a high and high profile divorce attorney and filed for divorce. And she did, she did all the paperwork and this, the state in which I live, the husband pays the wife's legal fees. Oh, yeah. So I refuse, I refuse to hire an attorney. So I didn't have an attorney for 98% of the divorce. And I got drafted, but, you know, I figured I was worth it. So you, I basically found somebody else in, and I had a rule and you'll laugh at this, that if I'm having an affair and screwing around, this is not going anywhere. I'm not falling in love. So you did have another woman when you said, I want a divorce, correct? Yeah. Yeah. Man will never say I want a divorce unless he's got another woman there to clean his laundry, blah, blah, all that shit. They never, it's always the woman. That's why I knew it was odd that you said that without any back, you know, back end persons right there. So you, you felt, you wound up with a woman. That's important to the story. You, when you guys get divorced, you, you're supposedly not supposed to have any kind of feelings, but there's a woman that you have developed a relationship with at this point. Yes. Okay. Well, you got to say that. I asked you if you ever developed feelings with them. You should say the last one. That would have been the correct answer. Well, the last one really, really, there were, there were some emotional ties during the screwing around period, but, you know, then I basically fell in love with this, this woman and she was single. Yes. She was, yes, she was a widow. And so we'd, we'd been friends and friends progressed to lovers and lovers progressed to husband and wife. And she allowed me and, and we would go to springers clubs, but no, none, zero zip touching. Wait, stop right there. I just have a quick question for you. And then I'm going to let you go again. We're going to get your whole swinging story. Do you have two wives or three wives? Two. I'm my second wife. So this one that you're with your vanilla is the same one though that you started swinging with at some point, like you guys, the same one that your vanilla now is, is doing. Okay. I just, I thought maybe it was two different people, but it's the same one. Okay. So you, so you get divorced from your wife and then how does the swinging come up? Let's go from there. I guess I expressed a desire to do that. And she was amenable to it. And we went, visited the club several times. Okay. Well, you know my show, we like detail. So you got to walk me through like, what were the conversations going in? Was there anything off the table on the table? Like, what was the deal? That go, like, what were you guys going to do the first time that you went fuck other people? Everything was okay? No, no, no, no, no, no, those were the rules. When she, she said to go, she said, I can never see you with another woman. I don't want to see another woman. If you touch another woman, I'm out of here. And so I said, no problem. I appreciated the luxury of going to swing club for the first time in my life and seeing, seeing and experiencing that. So I said, there's no way on God's green earth that I'm going to screw this up. Okay, guys, want not only bigger loads, but better tasting loads as well. Okay. Well, then listen, you need to go right now and get yourself some load boost by VB health. Okay. I have heard from so many guys that it not only works, but it works fast. My listeners have been telling me they are shooting bigger loads and their wives are saying that it tastes better after just two weeks of using it. Swear to you, if you don't believe me, email me and I will send you the screenshots of the DMs. Okay. Load boost is not some sketchy supplement. Load boost is a doctor formulated and it's not only great for bigger and better tasting jizz. It's also a great supplement for prostate and sperm health. So go get yourself some load boost by VB health. And when you're there, check out their other products. They have drive boost soaking wet. They even now have protein powders and energy powders that you could use before and after the gym. They offer 100 day money back guarantee. So you really have nothing to lose. All you got to do is go to loadboost.com and use my code strictly and you're going to get 10% off. That's loadboost.com. Use my code strictly for 10% off or I made it super easy for you. All you got to do is go to the description, click on the link and use my code strictly. She said to go. She said, I can never see you with another woman. I don't want to see another woman. If you touch another woman, I'm out of here. And so I said, no problem. I appreciated the luxury of going to a swing club for the first time in my life and seeing and experiencing that. So I said, there's no way on God's green earth that I'm going to screw this up. So we went and basically voyeurs, I guess, you know, there's several levels of swinging, exhibitionism, voyeurism, soft, soft, swap, hard swap. Never, there was never any physical interaction with anybody else. It was purely voyeurism. And I guess like it's a big exhibition a little bit. Meaning that you guys had sex with other, with each other in front of people. Yeah, we would go and have sex in the club. Yeah, I don't mind that. I like that kind of a thing to have on my show to show guests that, like, you know, you don't always have to go so hardcore into things because listen, the people on my show, a lot of them are very hardcore, right? They're the extreme, fully open. Everyone's, you know, doing everybody. That's all great, right? But, you know, maybe the majority of people aren't going to roll that way. But I do think like, why not as a couple, you know, if you want to stay only with each other and only be intimate with each other, why not go to a club and see other people and have all that? You know, I mean, it's kind of like a fun way to like dip your toe into something without going all the way. It's still like you're monogamous, but you're like monogamish, right? Yes, yes. And you're absolutely right. You know, you can dip your toe and you can see and you can see what other people are doing and And you could do it in front of people. I mean, the whole thing is super hot, right? I mean, you're seeing people. Oh, God, yes. You're doing that. I'm sure it only increases even the sex when you go home and with each other, right? Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. How did she feel the first time she went? She's very modest and you you the club we went to, they have a dance floor so you could go out and dance. And then the if you go into the swing room, you have to take your clothes off and wrap yourself in a towel. And she's very modest and we keep herself covered, you know, with a towel and then go into the string room and have to take the towel off. But it was it wasn't that there were bright lights in the swing room. It was kind of a little bit subdued. I mean, you could see other people, obviously. And she was she watched and looked, but I mean, it is that she stood up, walked around naked and was was much of an exhibition herself as I was. But that's okay. That's good for other women to know that they can go and keep their clothes on and be modest, but still taking the experience, right? Oh, absolutely. And you know, there's there's a whole there's dancing and on the dance floor, there's just some unbelievable dancing going on between two men and a woman to women and a man. I mean groups. I mean, it's really quite sensuous and exotic and erotic, if you will. And then you can go into the swing room, take clothes off, go into the swing room and screw your brains out, you know? Yeah. But did you ever screw your brains out there with her? Yeah, I had my record is five times in one night. With her? Yeah. Oh, okay. So she loosened up. Oh, yeah. No, she is amenable. She was amenable to sex. It isn't that she wasn't amenable. It wasn't that she was not amenable. She was amenable to sex, but only with me. Yeah, that's okay. And yeah, of course it was. I mean, I was living my dream. Yeah, I mean, who's gonna come what guy's gonna complain? I mean, listen, she's not totally vanilla. Yeah, she's not like letting you have sex with other people in front of her like some of my guys. But I think that there there's this is like something that maybe a lot more people could maybe try and explore. And it just adds a whole other layer to your relationship and keeps it still, you know, like monogamous, like you're still only with each other. And as you said, or as has been said on your podcast, it's live porn. Yeah. You can see porn on the movie on your TV screen. But when you when you see it in real life, it's mind blowing. You want to know why? Because not only because it's live, and I don't know about you, but I sometimes porn really fucking bothers me because it's so obvious. Nobody's really into it. You know what I mean? It's all fake shit. You know, like, I'm always like wanting to look at people that are really actually turned on, you know, and not fucking faking it. And there's nobody in a swinger club that's faking it. You know what I mean? No one's performing. Everyone's there because they love to fuck and they're having fun. You're right. And it's like, it's so it to me, it's better than porn because it's the real deal. A lot of porn stars are fucking screaming so loud. You're like, bullshit. Is this so dumb? 100% plus there's another subtle, more subtle atmosphere in the atmosphere is the pheromones from sex. Your, your nose can appreciate the sense of sex. Oh, for sure. Oh, yeah. For sure. I used to fuck my booty call guy and then walk across New York City without taking a shower home after our like illicit daytime sex. And every guy would be like almost crashing and like trying to follow me down the road. I'm like, I got the sex smell. I know I do. You're right. But it all adds up and I'm going to describe when I thought about calling you up and sharing the story. Yeah, I'm going to describe describe one scene that has driven me crazy in the sex club. And that was in the, in the origin room, they had a table and so you can, you know, get up on the table and fuck her. You can sit and kind of lean against the table. So she and I were just based basically leaning against the table and there were three women and a guy and the, there were the guy and the one of the women or girls, they were, they were younger. Okay. And then the two women were a little bit older. So all three of them were kind of making out. And remember, they don't have, nobody has her clothes on. And so the, it was almost as if they were initiating this couple of sex because they took the two women were, they're kissing the third woman, they're kissing him. He, the women that eventually got screwed was kissing him. And then they propped her up against the wall. So she's sitting against the wall. And there's a woman on either side of her and the guy is the young guy, I want to say kid, probably in his twenties was sitting in front of him and they're kissing her, sucking her breasts, handling her, handling him. And then the, the gradually just take her legs, pull them apart, and then gradually just guide his dick right into her. And it was the most sensuous thing I have ever seen in my life. And then he fucked her and everybody had a good time. But I mean, I, that scene still haunts my memory bank. And there, that's just one example of what you can see in, in, in the swinging clubs. It's, it's mind boggling. Yeah. Did you ever wind up bumping into anyone you know, when you went there? No. Okay. And your girl, like, I mean, so you guys never went further. You never like soft, even soft swap with anybody, correct? Nope. Okay. Okay. But she, she was like, totally open to having sex with you while other people watched, correct? Yes. Okay. Yes. Well, I wouldn't say she was, I wouldn't, I don't know if it's, it's fair to say she was totally open or tolerated that because she, she knew that, you know, if you're going to go to a sex, I'm going to have sex. And well, sometimes you can close the door. I mean, there are rooms where you could close the door. Yeah. Well, in this particular, let me see, in this particular club, there was just a big orgy room and then a dance floor. Yeah. And then where there was a smaller bar area where people with couches if you could fuck on, but there were no private rooms in this, in this club. Okay. Cool. And so did you make friends there? Did you ever like get close to maybe crossing the line? Or were you just completely fine and happy with what you were doing? No, just, no, we never made friends. Yeah. Yeah. First we never made friends. We talk a little bit where you're from, you know, and, but never, never exchange names. I think we were all, I mean, she and I were afraid of A, being recognized, B, being out and out. Of course. As a matter of fact, I think there was a time in this club was raided by the police and they took everybody in the club down and booked them. I don't know what they booked them on, you know, in decent exposure. I don't know what they owe them. Yeah. And I mean, I remember there was a school teacher involved and, oh my God, you think that she committed the greatest felony in the world, you know. Yeah. She was having consensual sex with grown adults. Exactly. Yeah. And so you're, you're, you're a little bit sensitive to it. And No, I'd be paranoid like that too. I got it. I got it. I think that, you know, people are. We never hooked up. We never, I mean, with another couple, we never hooked up with or made friends or anything else. We just, we just went periodically. I like to go today. I'd like to go. Well, why don't let's get to the point where it starts to fizzle out because you're going there. She's open to it. You're enjoying it, blah, blah, blah. Like what winds up changing? Getting married. What do you mean? Got married and it stopped. Why? She didn't want to do it anymore. Because of the paper? No, I don't know why she, she just, I don't, I don't like to go. I don't want to go to the club anymore. Oh, watch porn. Oh, she did. She did. That's the girl move. She does whatever she needs to do to get the fucking ring on her finger. And then when she's got it, she goes to be who she really is. Now I'm not interested in that. Oh my God. Are you serious? The minute you got married, she's like, Oh, by the way, I don't like this. Well, she, I wouldn't say she didn't like it. She just said she didn't want to do it anymore. So I guess she didn't have to. She had you put a ring on it. Oh my God. You don't find that funny. Yeah, it's funny. But you know, the thing is we have such good sex. That's great. Such a good life. We love each other so much that, you know, you know, you know what boundaries you have. And, you know, and as I said, I'm not getting divorced again. That was a very expensive and emotional, emotional ride, if you will. And the other interesting thing is that there was such guilt involved with my first divorce. I was just going to say, well, there was also, you even said it, you felt guilty all the time when you did it. You're not the type of guy that wants to do that. I mean, you were doing it, you know, because the sex was lacking at home, you weren't getting anything, no blow jobs, no kissing, you know, if you're happy in this, there would be no reason to do that and have all that guilt for what reason, you know? Exactly. And I went, you know, to part of trying to erase my guilt, I saw a psychotherapist and for the longest time, I always thought that psychiatry and psychology was for the other individual. And I realized that I was really in deep going through this divorce. So I, I went to a psychotherapist for over a year. And because I said the divorce is 95% my problem, my fault. And she looked at me, she said, home, no, no, no, no, no, it's 50, 50. Right. And don't blame yourself. Number one, number two, she said that she knows the, the woman I married and she said, everybody I've ever met, your wife is the least likely to have had an affair and you're, you're lucky. And uh, meeting your first wife, what does that mean? Why are you lucky? What made you feel better? She was my present wife. Oh, it is, is the least likely, you know, to, to have had an affair. And listen, you had affairs when you have judged her if she had, I don't know why that was coming to question when you were talking to her. I don't know where that comes into play. No, no, it was just, I, the psychologist was just offering that to me as, as a, as an observation. And because you're talking to this psychologist while you're married or when you're now married to this woman, I don't get it. No, I, no, I, I filed for divorce, started seeing the psychologist. Oh, okay. And, and, and saw the psychologist for you. I didn't, I didn't get remarried for several years. Yeah, obviously, that's right. You were swinging with her though. But yeah. Okay. And so, and you're going to the third, and why are you, why is your therapist telling you, don't worry, she's not going to cheat on you. Were you worried because you had cheated on her? No, no, no. Okay. No, I, when, when, when, oh, I know what I was thinking of. She's, the therapist told me, I said, I think I'm a, I'm a sex addict. She said, let me tell you what a sex addict is. Yeah. And she said, I have a client who's an attorney who hires prostitutes. Okay. The attorney knew that there was a sting operation down the street from his law office. Even though he knew there was a sting operation, he still went down and hired a prostitute. We got her arrested and got caught. She said, no, that's addiction. She said, you don't have addiction. Yeah. And, and she said, seven years. She said, if you don't cheat in seven years, you will never cheat again. And she's right. I haven't cheated on my second wife at all. And I guess because I don't want to go through a divorce, I know what an emotional trauma it is. And I know how, how good I've got it. I mean, we, you're more obviously, absolutely, you're obviously more connected. I mean, like a lot of people like act as if sex is like this extra thing added into a thing, but it's a very important piece of the pie in a marriage. And when it goes out the window, a lot of things go out the window besides just the physical aspect of it. You know, there's the intimacy and the closeness. You didn't have that with your wife. She didn't feel it with you either because women don't get closeness through sex so much. They get it through talking and you weren't talking to her. She wasn't fucking you. So both of you were like not connected with each other at all. You know, so I think unfortunately a lot of people think a lot of men cheat for different reasons than women and a lot of men are doing it because they're pigs or sex addicts. You know what I mean? You men get a bad rap for liking sex, right? But it's not. It's, you know, men cheat for the same reasons women do. There's major things at home. You know, you do get the Philanderer who just, you know, is always going to need variety and that's just the way he's wired and he loves his wife at home and everything's fucking great, but he's going to go get extra tail. But that's not most guys I'm telling you. Most guys that call into my show that cheat as well as the women are cheating for the same reason. There's problems at home, happy, healthy things. Because look at you. You're happy in a great relationship now with a woman that you love and you have everything that you need and you don't have any desire to do it. You're right. Absolutely right. Yeah. So, you know, that's, so that's why now it doesn't make it right. No, you know what I mean? It doesn't make it right, but it's, it's the reason why it happens. Not because guys are sex addicts or they can't keep it in their fucking pants. I mean, when you take sex away from a man and a lot of women, this happens, especially with menopause or other times, you know, if you draw, if that dries up for 10 years, what do you expect a man to do? A man feels wanted, loved, appreciated through sex, you know? Absolutely. Absolutely. You hit it right on the head. Yeah. It's the same way a woman feels when you're talking to her and complimenting her and that's what men stop doing to women. So it's a real problem. You know, men are from Mars, women from Venus. It's a real thing. You know, we get it all wrong. We're both like, no one's, no one's better or worse in the scenario. You know what I mean? Men fuck up women fuck up. It happens all the time because, you know, in families with relationships with kids and everything, you get on autopilot and a lot of people wind up where you and your first wife did, you know? It's just unfortunate, but it happens all the time. 50% of the time 50% of marriages wind up in divorce. Yeah. I mean, listen, you know, the fact that people are getting married in their 20s, I mean, I was 20 something years old. I'm like, you're basically like an amoeba then you don't even know who the fuck you are. So like, what are the odds that you're going to be on the same page with someone 40, you know, when you're 40, you know, I don't know. I think it's a, and some people do wind up and they're happy and ever. And I think that that's the lucky people, but a lot of people find themselves and I don't like, honestly, I don't see divorce as such a negative thing. It's sad that it gets such a bad rap and there's all this like, I mean, listen, it was negative for you. You lost all your money and all that kind of stuff. But I'm just saying like, it's not like you and your wife didn't have a successful marriage for some time. I mean, you were together a long time. You don't have to spend the rest of your life to not consider it a failure. Like, you know, I mean, it doesn't have to be a failure just because you didn't live till you're in your fucking grave miserable. You lasted 28 years, right? How long was it? That was like 28. Yeah, that's a long fucking time. The high five for that, for making it through a long ass relationship for both you and your wife. And so you both moved on and now you're getting another great relationship. Why not? You only live once. I agree 100%. 100%. Yeah, I do something called marriage math. And you know, I don't think a lot of people would think about it. I always did. And that's why I never wanted to get married because I'm like, you know, if I get married, if I think I'm going to die when I'm 85 and I get married when I'm 25 minus 25 from 85, and that equals the number of years you're going to be with one guy. And I was like, that gives me claustrophobia. I don't blame you. And for me, as a woman, I could have a baby on my own, which I did. So it's like a different story. But you know, listen, I think marriage is great. I love that you have been given a second chance. I feel like for you especially because you did have all that guilt. And you know, you are in a therapist's office, you know, wondering if you have a second like really looking at yourself and really trying to take accountability for why you did cheat and everything, which I respect, you know, I mean, a lot of guys will never look in the mirror at themselves, you know, you did feel bad, you did it, but you felt bad and you really wanted to take accountability and not do it again. And you haven't. So you redeemed yourself. I think that's great. That's a great story. Oh, you're sweet to say that. But it's true. Yeah. Yeah. What's a cheater? Not always a cheater. Well, that's what I was worried about when I saw my therapist. Yeah. And she said that it's seven years. If you go seven years and don't cheat, you're fine. Yeah, listen, you're not goggling the people in your office anymore, are you? That you're getting close with and crossing the boundary lines? No, no, no, no desire, no desire. Yeah, amazing. You know, when you have a good relationship and you're having fun together, you know, what the hell? Why ruin it? You know, there's no even space for that. That's how I feel. I feel like unless there's a little space for someone to creep in and, you know, sort of make you look in a different direction, that's where their problem lies. But in a happy, healthy, fulfilled relationship, most of the time there isn't that space for someone else to come in and take your attention away. It just doesn't happen most of the time. Absolutely right. Yeah, absolutely right. I think your description of space to come in is key. Yeah, yeah, you don't have that. Even though you're the same office, I'm assuming, I don't know, you know what I mean? Same work, bad boundaries, like you cross it, there's none of that is happening anymore. And listen, and your girl, like it's not like your girl's doing anything crazy for you or anything, you're just having regular, great sex with each other and that's enough for you. That's right. Yeah, that's great. And for her too, obviously, she got a guy, listen, she was a poor widow that her husband died and now she's got a great second husband. I tell that every morning. How long you guys are married for? 25 years. Wow, that's a long fucking time. Yeah, it is. Yeah, wow. Wow. And how old was she when you met her? How old was she when her husband died? 40 41. Oh my God, how did her first husband die? That's so curious. I am sorry. Like, how did her first husband die? He had cold and cancer. Oh my God, that's terrible that she had to go through that. Yeah. And she has kids? Yes. Okay. Does your wife know her and like her like, I mean, so many years later, like, what's your relationship with your acts of them and everyone? Well, interesting. Interesting story. Yeah. We had a pretty good relationship. So then things changed when lifetime alimony stopped. And then our relationship deteriorated to some degree. But I think it's, it's, it's getting back on track. Why do you think because she didn't need your money anymore and wasn't getting it so she didn't have to be nice? I don't know. I don't understand. No, I think it's, it's back on track because the, I mean, we have kids together and she feels, I mean, I think there's a relationship to maintain with her kids. Of course. And, and, and with me and, and my kids and our kids. And so I think that in order to preserve that relationship, she's softened a little bit. Right. Did she ever get remarried? No. Okay. No, no. And she told me, she told me she'll never trust another man. Well, did she, why did she, she, I thought she always trusted you. Did she find out you were cheating on her the whole time when she got out of the relationship? Yeah. Oh my God. You just, you're the worst storyteller. How did you not tell me that later earlier? Well, that didn't, well, she didn't know about it until, until the, after the divorce. I mean, when, when, when the divorce was first filed, she asked me if there was somebody else and I said no, I lied and said no. Yeah. And then, and because I said no, because there were a few couples that were friends of mine who said, who knew about the situation? They said, don't ever, ever admit to having another individual. Right. So I said, okay, I won't. So I didn't. And then subsequently, you know, if, if you wind up dating an individual, you know, it comes out and she found out. And that was not an enjoyable time that she found out about it, but I, I fasted up to her and until the other was somebody else. And but she didn't know about all the people. She didn't know it was tons of people. She just thought, thought towards the end of your marriage, you did wind up having this affair with another woman and you did leave her for this other woman. Yeah. Yeah. That's going to stay. And the thing is, I, I raged, it's got a sting, but I rationalized it by saying, I more than once tried to discuss the problem of kissing and oral sex. And you're valid for that. Sorry. If she was my girlfriend, you know, so many years later, I'd be like, can you at least now look back and realize like maybe that's why he cheated and maybe you should have taken him seriously. Maybe you should have just made out with him and blew him and made sure to move your mouth before he came. Like, you know, you have to take some accountability. Everybody does for all of the things in their life. You've took, you took accountability for what you did. You felt bad. You went to a therapist. You thought you were sex addict. You know what I mean? She has to also look at her part in things. Sorry. You know what I mean? Yeah. I agree. I agree. Yeah. So, so that's what she does have a, she does. It's like I said, it's not right that you did it, but it wasn't also right that she didn't listen to your needs, no matter how many times you told her, you know? Exactly. I agree. Of course, that's me, me rationalizing where I am today, but you know, that you're right. No, it's right. Of course, it's right. I used to do private calls, okay, where people paid to talk to me because they didn't want to come on the phone. And all the calls were men that would never cheat on their wives, okay, never ever, but they were like in marriages where their wife went through menopause and wasn't banging them for like 10 years. And they were calling me because they were at the point where they were going to cheat and they didn't want to, but they didn't know what to do. What is a man supposed to do? What does these women think a man is supposed to do? What do you think? I don't know. There's a whole menopause Facebook group. It's like fucking hilarious because I was on two. I was on the one with the hormones where everyone's fucking happy talking about all their sex and they feel fucking great. And then the menopause one is miserable. They're all complaining about their husbands trying to bang them and they're all calling their husbands pigs. All he ever wants is sex. It's disgusting. You know, it's like, well, what's going to happen 10 years from now when he has an affair? Like what do you expect a man to do? You know, and that's what does a woman expect just to jerk off? I had a guy on recently. That's like what he was doing. I'm like, I don't get that for 10 years. I agree. Yeah. For 10 years, what are you going to do? You know, there's eventually going to, you're eventually going to wander period into discussion. Yeah. And then can you blame him? No, absolutely not. No. So there you go. So we say you were wrong. Eventually you were double triple dipping. I mean, you did, you know, sort of go to extremes, but you know, you wound up redeeming yourself, I think, by coming to terms with everything and now is proving to yourself that you could be in a relationship and not cheat. You know, so I love your whole story. Thank you so much for calling in and sharing it. I think it's like super interesting and great. You know, it's got the ups and downs of like a good biography, you know, which I always love and appreciate. I appreciate it. But you know, that's life. Yeah, that's what I love. That's why I always love documentaries and biographies because, you know, life isn't just like what's happening right now, you know, whether it's good or bad, you know, life has ups and downs and whatever, you know. And so that's why I feel like you can never sort of judge a lot of people, judge people where they are at one place and time, you know, but you can't do that to people, you know, people grow and change and they're in different times of their life and they do different types of things. And you have to look at someone's whole life before you put judgment on them, you know, if you're going to. So, for sure. So let's see how people judge you. After they hear your whole redemption story, I mean, how can you like people, you know, listen, you're going to have the people with the blinders on there, they're going to be like, oh, well, he's still cheated the first time, so he's a terrible person, you know, whatever. But I don't see life like that. I think we're all human beings, life is meant to be messy. If we were perfect, there would be no reason to be here, you know, and we're here to fuck up, learn, grow, change. And that's what it's all about. And, you know, you had some messy times in your life and but, you know, you've had some not messy times and that's what I love. That's like real life shit. Okay, so thanks, Bruce, so much for calling in. When we get off, you'll get access to my Discord and you'll get a free link to my Patreon so you could see the comments when people call in. Okay. All right, I appreciate it. Thank you so much, Kathy. Thanks, Bruce. Congratulations for your new life. Oh, thank you. I'm enjoying it. That's good. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Okay, I just want to tell you before you go that my book, it's called Strictly Anonymous Confession, Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers, is now available not only in paperback and ebook, but you can pre-order the audiobook. It's still not going to be out till August 25th, but you can pre-order it. The book is basically 17 different stories taken from my show. I kind of picked one story from each category that I talk about on my show. Like there's a hot wife story, there's a cuck queen story, there's a cuck story, there's a gang being girl story. Like I said, 17 stories and they're all told in the third person and they're all true. I took the interview and rewrote it in the third person and I wouldn't really call it like a total erotica book, think like penthouse letters. It's more direct. It's not so over the top like erotica. I don't really like that kind of vibe, right? But these are true stories. 17 of them, they're really short chapters, easy read. You could read one or two and then skip around. You could read the whole book. It's available in e-back format, paperback format. And finally, the audiobook is available coming out August 25th, but you could pre-order it now. And if you buy my book in any format or pre-order it, I will throw in a complimentary link to my discord. My discord does not disappoint. There's no way you'd get into my discord any other way than getting the link from me. I give it to people who buy my book. There's tons of people in there. Everybody shares content with each other and that's what you get to do there. You could post your own pictures and videos. There's tons of channels. We have lots of contests where you could win a lot of money. It's a super fun place to be. It's a total strictly anonymous community and you will love it. I will be giving anyone who buys my book access to my discord. It's private. Like I said, all you got to do is email me a screenshot of your purchase, whether you did the audiobook, the e-book, or the paperback. Send it to me at strictlyanonymouspodcastatgmail.com. That's strictlyanonymouspodcastatgmail.com and I will send you the link to discord. Anyway, thanks so much for tuning in. I just want to tell you before you go that my book, it's called Strictly Anonymous Confession, Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers, is now available not only in paperback and e-book, but you can pre-order the audiobook. It's still not going to be out till August 25th, but you can pre-order it. The book is basically 17 different stories taken from my show. I kind of picked one story from each category that I talk about on my show. Like there's a hot wife story. There's a cuck queen story. There's a cuck story. There's a gang being girl story. Like I said, 17 stories and they're all told in the third person and they're all true. I took the interview and rewrote it in the third person and I wouldn't really call it like a total erotica book, I think like penthouse letters. It's more direct. It's not so over the top like erotica. I don't really like that kind of vibe, right? But these are true stories. 17 of them, they're really short chapters, easy read. You could read one or two and then skip around. You could read the whole book. It's available in e-back format, paperback format. And finally, the audiobook is available coming out August 25th, but you could pre-order it now. And if you buy my book in any format or pre-order it, I will throw in a complimentary link to my discord. My discord does not disappoint. There's no way you'd get into my discord any other way than getting the link from me. I give it to people who buy my book. There's tons of people in there. Everybody shares content with each other and that's what you get to do there. You could post your own pictures and videos. There's tons of channels. We have lots of contests where you could win a lot of money. It's a super fun place to be. It's a total strictly anonymous community and you will love it. I will be giving anyone who buys my book access to my discord. It's private. Like I said, all you got to do is email me a screenshot of your purchase, whether you did the audiobook, the e-book, or the paperback. Send it to me at strictlyanonymouspodcastatgmail.com. That's strictlyanonymouspodcastatgmail.com and I will send you the link to discord. Anyway, thanks so much for tuning in.