Still Bobbi: Bobbi Brown on Reinvention, Midlife Entrepreneurship & Finding Purpose After 60

I'm still served ads that are anti-aging and it drives me crazy. There isn't such a thing. No. I mean, I'm older now than when I first arrived here. Like, there's nothing that's going to anti-age you. There's things that will age you, like smoking and not wearing sunscreen and straining, and straining bad food and all that kind of stuff. But I'm a liver. It's, you know, I'm not looking to use the term anti-age at all. I just, I want to be more vibrant. And I do that through makeup and I do it through what I put in my body and I do it through positive attitude. When I opened Bobby Brown's new memoir, Still Bobby, the very first sentence stopped me in my tracks. I won't want to work when I'm 60. I laughed out loud because 30 years ago, those were my words too. I thought 60 would mean retirement, grand babies, slowing down. What I never imagined is that now at 57, I feel like this is the most productive, impactful and fulfilling time of my life. That line resonated because it revealed how deeply we underestimate what purpose and passion can look like later in life. When I first saw Bobby launch Jones Road Beauty, I remember thinking, does she really need to do this? Why does she take this on? And then I realized we don't create just for financial reasons. We create because passion and purpose don't disappear with age. I met Bobby at a business summit where I was an invited speaker. She was standing in front of a table filled with the Jones Road line and I'll never forget the image, this incredible icon in the beauty industry. Noan Terage, no assistant, just Bobby herself, talking to women, answering their questions and introducing them to her products. I had this moment of recognition. She's just like us. And then I opened my swag bag and found some of those products and I dove right in. What struck me was she made these products for us, for women of a certain age, for skin that gets drier and menopause, for faces where powders can settle into fine lines. Her creams were exactly what my skin needed. And the brow product is genius because not only are my brows going gray like the rest of my hair, but the texture is changing and suddenly I needed help getting them to behave. That's the brilliance of Bobby. She sees us. She creates for us and she's not slowing down, reading her book and seeing how she's built this next chapter has been a joy and I am so excited to share the conversation with her today. I'm Dr. Mary Claire Haver, a board certified obstetrician and gynecologist and certified menopause practitioner and also an adjunct professor of statuic singenconn ecology at the University of Texas Medical Branch. Welcome to Unposed, the podcast where we cut through the silence and talk about what it really takes for women to thrive in the second half of life. The views and opinions expressed on unposed are those of the talent and guests alone and are provided for informational and entertainment purposes only. No part of this podcast or any related materials are intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. So welcome to Unposed. I'm so happy to be here and so happy to see you again. So let's just go back to the beginning. Tell me a little bit about your Chicago roots and the journey that got you to New York City. Well, you know, certainly writing this memoir has been cathartic because I went back and thought about what my life was like when I was a kid and who I got to observe doing things. So I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago. I was the oldest of parents that were 20 and 21 when I was born. By the time they were 25, there was three of us kids living in the suburbs. Pretty normal upbringing and then eventually we moved and things started falling apart like one by one. But I look back at my childhood and I don't think I had a complicated, you know, hard childhood. I think I had a wonderful loving childhood and things just happened. You tell this great scrappy story about your grandfather and how he was, you know, came over on a boat from the Ukraine and built his own business. How do you feel like that helped you develop your story? Well, Papa Sam was this incredible guy, very, very, very short man, very sweet man, very rough on the outside, tough guy, but inside he was a mush. And I used to watch him how he would talk to his customers and how he respected everyone the same. It didn't matter who you were. If you were a person that came in, you were treated the exact same way. And so I saw that and I used to help Papa Sam stuff his envelopes and mail them out to all of his customers. And I would look at his brochures. So I didn't realize that I was learning about business, customer service and marketing. You met your husband Steve and there's a theme throughout the book of what Iraq he has really been in your life. I think I'm married a Steve. Oh, yeah. You know, we're lucky. And by the way, I've been married 37 years. I'm so lucky. But it's not easy. No, you know, I mean, nothing is easy raising kids, being a, you know, working mom, being a working woman, nothing's easy, but that doesn't stop me from putting things into it. I love my husband. He's always there for me. He calms me down. He also is a dream catcher to open a store here. Okay, I say, and we go over with the roll of tape and all of a sudden we've taped out where things go and he starts building it. That's amazing. I'm one of eight kids. And my oldest brother died of leukemia when I was nine, so our family kind of took a tumble. My next brother came out of the closet when he was 16 and he was heavily, heavily into makeup. He was actually friends with Kevin O'Quant. Yeah. So they went to high school together. And I was his muse. You can imagine in full drag, basically at nine years old. I mean, I was contoured. I highlighted bowling alley blue. I showed him a big frosty lipstick. He thought of what was glamorous and beautiful at the time, but he actually tried to make it as a makeup artist in New York and moved up here in the 80s. Right. I was in high school and he came home within a year. Wow. Yeah, I was in touch situation. You know, I think HIV was coming and he wanted to be home, but he he tried. Okay. And I have lots of great pictures of him in studio 54. Uh-huh. Looking very glamorous. Right. But he did come home after a year and he was super successful at home. What did he do at home? I call them in Jane of all trades. Like he was a really accomplished chef. And so he did a lot of private dinner parties. He did a lot of seasonal decorating towards the end of his life. People would hire him to do all their Christmas decor, but he would go in at like October. And he would, you know, decorate their front doors and their homes from October through Madigra in Louisiana. So that was like four or five months of solid going every few months to change out the lights, change out all the decor. And a life in creativity, whether it's makeup or Halloween decorations or cooking is a life of passion. When it wasn't holiday time or Madigra, he was cooking and like we send off the parents will call and say, Hey, Bobby's going off to, you know, college and he'd make all these, you know, cast roles to come pick up to show up. So he was always busy. Oh, he's not no longer with us. No, he, um, he died of HIV and hepatitis in 2015. Right. And that was kind of my big lightning bolt, right? To give myself the okay to pin the, because it's too short. And I had a step brother that died of HIV. I'm not even sure if I put it in the book or not. I don't remember reading. Yeah. It probably would have. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was my step brother and he came to New York to be a hairdresser probably around the same time. And you know, eventually he, you know, contracted this and died. So that was a, that was a sad time. Yeah. I was, I was just tough. When I think about the no makeup makeup look and like understanding how what the, what everyone expected as from a makeup artist at the time, because that's what my brother was doing. How, who was that for you to just stick to your guns? And I know you, you had to do what the people who hired you said to do, but the whole time you're like, these people are beautiful. They don't need all this. Wasn't hard because it was a natural pivot. So I tried to, to, you know, to be like Kevin O'Connor. Maybe, you know, he came after me, but there were other makeup artists that I tried to be like and I either didn't have the talent. Like I could not paint a face to change someone's face. They looked awful. So either I didn't have any talent or I, or I just didn't think it looked good. So I started doing these little things that now people think were brilliant. Like choose a foundation or make a foundation, mix it and blend it so it looked like your skin. So it didn't look like a mask and find colors of blushes that were the color of your cheeks. To me, it was common sense and simple. I think it was a way that I could hack the system. I don't need to put a blush on and try to blend it to look good. I could actually find a blush that you put on and it's a better color. So it blends itself. So I kind of hacked my way into a career and somehow started a revolution in a new look. I love how you, you really lay out the origin story of the original company Bobby Brown Cosmetics and that you were working as a makeup artist, stumbled across the lipstick. You love this formulation. You had him in Ziplocs. You were handing them out and then turned that into a company which eventually grew and you got bought out by, or you sold to a lot of companies. You sold this through. Right. So I was a makeup artist, you know, and had a really great life getting hired by all the magazines, fashion shows and met my husband, got pregnant. And said, I don't want to do the traveling anymore. So I still took jobs around New York and I did this one job where it took me to a pharmacy in New York and I met the chemist behind the counter and I talked to everybody and I started asking about these lipsticks. He said, Oh, I made them. I said, wow, they're really nice. I said, but I've always wanted to make a lipstick that didn't smell. Wasn't greasy. Wasn't dry and look like the color I wish my lips were. He said, I could make it for you. So we started working together and he made it. And I said, Oh, my God, people would love this. I could probably sell this. And then I realized not everyone likes the same brown color I like and everyone has different color lips. So I thought and I deated what these 10 lipsticks should be. He made them for me. And I just started selling them out of my house. There was no, there was no thought of being a brand. There was no, but I was selling a bunch. Really a friend wrote about them in Glamour magazine. We got a ton of orders and the company kind of started. We then launched a Bergdorf Goodman because I met someone at a party and she told me she was a cosmetics buyer. I guess I pitched her right on the spot. And I mean, I told her about it. I didn't realize at the time it was called pitching. And we entered Bergdorf Goodman with 10 lipsticks, not with the original chemist. We had a kind of redo everything we did. To get it the right way. It became successful. And after four and a half years, we sold the company to SD Lauder with a 25 year non-compete. As I talked about in the opening, the first line of the book is I want to work when I'm 60. And I left out loud because I remember thinking 30 year old Mary Claire, 35 year old Mary Claire, 60 was old. Old. Old. Old. Old. Old. I didn't have a model. No. Other than domestic labor. Right. Of a woman working on purpose at 60. And so I totally get what you I would have said the exact same thing like sign the contract honey. You know, this is our payday. But you you stayed on his creative director like they you didn't just buy a walk out. No, I did not. I actually went to work as a cell in walk out. Right. I actually went to work as if it was still my company. But now I had these teams and this money and these budgets and that seems so fine. It was really, really fun for most of the time. And I had, you know, complete autonomy. I had partners I loved. I had, you know, Leonard Lauder who was an amazing mentor to me. I had teams of people. And then like anything in life, things change. Like, I don't think people realize nothing stays the same. And so maybe it was amazing for 15 years, maybe 18 years, but the last four or five years were tough. And the last year was unbearable. And I stayed still because I thought I could fix it. You just have that grit. I just thought I could fix it. And honestly, it was my ant Alice. She was, you know, now she's 94. So she must have been 87. And she said honey, it's time. She said all you do when I talk to you is complain about everything about work, but you say don't worry. I'll fix it. And nothing changes. And then when you exit it, the company, they kept your name. Well, no, no. They, when you sell a company with your name and they buy it, they own it forever. Okay. And that was fine. I had no problem with that. You knew what you, you knew it when you signed contract. I knew and I signed 25, 24 years. Sure they could have my name. What do I need it for? What did I know? But it was upsetting. You talk about it in the book. It was, it was a really course. He took two whole days off. I did. I took two whole days off. And you know, it was, it was a tough time. And I write about it in the book a lot because there was a lot of details. And I want people to understand that it's normal to feel bad when things like this happen. And it's what you do with the information that matters. And for me, it was something I needed to go through. I needed to go through the emotions of anger and sadness and excitement. And it just, it was all over the place. And I, you know, thank my, my husband, my friends started reaching out, you know, even people I weren't, I wasn't that close with would reach out and just, you know, help me a bit. Check on you. Yeah. Yeah, check on me. And it took a while. But anyone that knows me, I just can't sit still. Yeah. So I started going out for lunches and I just started doing things and ideating and trying a lot of projects. So you did a master class? I did a master class. Was that fun? It was the first. You were one of the first. I was one, I was the first, you know, makeup artist. Okay. I remember seeing that advertised, you know, me who knows nothing about anything in the, in the cosmetic world. I thought that's really cool. And the master classes were new. It's not like everybody had done them. Right. But I mean, the master's up to that point where Annie Leibwood's teaching photography and, you know, Roger Federer, you know, teaching tennis. So it was a very big honor. And I didn't have, you know, a company or products, but they still thought of me as the one to be the master and I kind of, it was, it was really, really great. And then I got invited to India to be the keynote speaker of the first ever Indian makeup show. You think of Indian makeup as this soliwad over the top, but they hired me. So I got to do that. And I just realized how much I missed being in the makeup world. So you've said though, and it correct me if I'm wrong, you didn't have an intention when you laughed. That's it. No more beauty brands. I'm done. How long did it take before you went to Annie and you're like, maybe? Well, you know, what happened was when I left, you know, and again, you could read it in the book and make your own decision if I quit or I got fired. But I didn't have an agenda. I didn't have a plan. I didn't know what it was going to do. And honestly, I didn't know if anyone would care about me ever again. I thought, oh, no one's, I'm not going to be on those interviews. So much of your identity was tied up. Exactly. And my husband even said, you know, you've never really separated yourself from this company, from this, you know, it was my first baby. Yeah. It was before I had my first kid. Yeah. So I didn't know what I was going to do. Perry Menopause is not early menopause. It is its own distinct biological phase. And it has been largely ignored. My new book, The New Perry Menopause, is about the seven to ten years before your period stop. A transition that is anything but gentle. Hormones fluctuate wildly. And for many women, this is when the anxiety, brain fog, sleep disruption, weight changes, mood shifts, joint pain, and that unsettling feeling of, I don't feel like myself anymore began. Long before anyone says the word menopause, Perry Menopause often starts quietly. It shows up in the brain first, then the body, then everywhere else. And too often, women are told, nothing is wrong. I wrote the new Perry Menopause because you deserve answers before things spiral. You deserve care before burnout. And you deserve a clear roadmap for a transition that medicine has ignored for far too long. The new Perry Menopause is now available for pre-order everywhere books are sold. Learn more and pre-order your copy at thepaslife.com. I love this part of the story because you're driving with your husband. You're going to do another makeup brand and you figure out the name. Right. Well, all I cared about was launching this new company, the Day My Non-Competed With Off. Yeah. So when I left the corporation, why was that so important? I'll tell you what, because when I left the company, I had four and a half years left on this non-competed. I don't do great when people say you can't do something. So I couldn't do anything in beauty. And four and a half years seemed like forever. And you know what? I would have my freedom for the first time. You know, I could literally tear up the piece of paper I'd be done and I wanted to launch it. The issues were, it was a week before the presidential election in the middle of the pandemic. And everyone said, don't do it. Every PR firm, people we talk to said, you're crazy. Why don't you wait till January? I don't know. You remember what happened in January? January 6th? Yeah. So there never would have been a good time. And I needed to do it. And you know, I had the products because I had been working on them secretly. And but I didn't have a name. I don't have a name that was available that we liked or everyone agreed on. And I was driving with my husband to our home in the Hamptons. Of course, as I always do complaining, how and when and how and my husband said, you need to get this name by Monday or you're not going to be able to launch in time. And my head was down because my husband likes me to check ways and Google maps, God forbid, were late five minutes to somewhere and we had nowhere to go. But my head was down and I see Jones Road. And I don't know why I just blurred it out. Jones Road, beauty. And my husband said, I like it. And it was available. And that became the name. When I think about how I used to shop for makeup, I would go to, you know, based on my budget at the time, which was zero, I would go to the grocery store. I would go to the drug store, which was records or what is now CVS or Walgreens and wander through and then look at the makeup and say, oh, this looks nice. Or that looks nice. My children are 21 and 25 and they almost 100% by everything off of social media. Some they see a makeup artist using it. They see some product. They get influenced. And then they buy and you were on social media talking about your product. I remember, I thought I found you. I thought I found Jones Road. It was served to me during the pandemic. And I thought, wow, that's Bobby Brown. What's this Jones Road stuff? And you were showing this like the Miracle Mom. And putting it on. And so I bought some for my sister for her birthday. And I'm like, I'll get to, I'll get some of the Bottitub. Right. So much fun playing with it. And the first thing I thought was she made this for me. This is for women with dry skin. I never had a oily skin before. And then menopause sucked all the oil out of my body along with water and everything else. Did you though? I mean, were you focusing on a certain age? No, you built this. You know what? And this is the true story. I don't see age. Like I don't think, oh, this is for this group. And I know we have a demographic that is our higher people to buy the makeup. But I don't see age. I just saw this amazing product that would look good on skin. That of course, it's a skincare and makeup in one. So if you remember during the pandemic, we didn't do anything, right? We didn't color our hair. We didn't do anything. And then slowly we started to open up our laptops and our cameras and do zooms, but we looked awful. So this product instantly was a miracle because I just looked so much better and so did everyone else that tried it. The young girls in my office, you know, my friends. And I was like, I'm on to something. I said, this could be an entire brand because it's, it's number one. It was important to me that it's a clean brand. I wanted to create products that didn't have any chemicals. I'm a certified health coach. I went back to school and got my degree from IIN. And so I've always been someone that, you know, believes how you take care of yourself, impacts how you look. But then of course, you know, makeup can also impact how you feel. So I find it like one big circle. And miracle balm just was the perfect product because you could use it instead of a moisturizer. You could use it over a blush. You could, if your skin's oily, you could put it over a powder or you could just do it by itself. And so it became a pretty much overnight success. For my like go to Zoom look. Though, those in filters nice. Yeah. I have that long mascara wand with the hides that if you haven't seen it, it's my tech talk purchase. I throw my hair in a ponytail and I slick back all the fly away. I put on my miracle balm. I do my eyebrows. I put on a glass and I'm going to go. And I'm good to go. Because we wear glasses, we get away with the law. I think it's harder for women that don't. I don't. And honestly, it, some days when all else fails and no matter what, you don't look good and you put your makeup on and something's not working, you're probably dry and dehydrated from inside. But all I do is take the miracle balm and it fixes everything. Yeah. It's awesome. So when you're doing all this, I have this feeling, no one really tells you no, you just do whatever. Well, they tell me no, I just don't always listen. Did anyone say, what are you doing this? Oh, a friend of mine. Why am I doing this? Either age or do you really financially have to do this? Why are you doing this? Right. I mean, I had friends of mine when I said I was writing a memoir, why are you doing that? One of my best friends said, why do you have to do this? I don't have to do it. I want to do it. I mean, I am so lucky because I don't have to work. I work because I love what I do. And I'm really curious and I'm always, I always want to do something better. I always want to, you know, I'm very competitive with myself, you know, and I'm, I guess I'm competitive just by nature. So and I don't let go of something that I want until I get it. Until you get it. Do you like the scrappy stage? Like the beginning of the start up? I am the most scrappy person. I mean, Jones Road now is a big brand. We still run it very scrappily. And I love it. It makes total sense. I kind of grew up hacking my life. I knew nothing. I left, you know, I, I was not a great student. I didn't have a lot of book learnings, book smarts, but I realized I had other things. Maybe I had the Papa Sam education. So the, so as I'm doing more things, I'm learning more. And I'm like, oh, I could do this. And then I kind of just became watch me, you know, not even to other people. Maybe it's to my high school teacher, my middle school teacher, but it's to myself. Okay, watch me. I love in the book when you talk about just start. So many women in my clinic, you know, at this age reaching out on social media, this age. And so I'm about 10 years behind you are at this. There was a nice way of saying you're 10 years younger. Okay. I'm 57. So, you know, you're aging parents, dealing with that. And then, you know, kids are at different launch pads, you know, moving on. And a lot of people are getting in and out of marriages, getting in and out of jobs or, you know, men, like for a lot of women, at least in my world, because everyone's a menopause, a lightning bolt comes down and they're making decisions on the next 30 years really fast. And so I see a lot of them stuck in analysis problems. And that does not ever seem to be your issue. I don't like to be stuck. So when I wake up in the morning, I feel stuck. And it happens, you know, and again, I think it's probably I'm dehydrated or maybe, you know, I had the sushi and, you know, an extra glass of sake, whatever it is, I wake in the morning, I feel stuck. I drink water immediately. And then I put on either music or I have a couple guys I follow on Instagram and I dance. I do hip hop and I don't care if it's for 10 minutes. I love it. It literally unsticks me. I love it. So exercise, you know, for me is kind of everything. I'm very much the same. I built a gym in my house so that, and I work from there. So I have a treadmill and I'll throw the laptop up there and walk. And so I take most of my Zen calls up there. People think I'm nuts. I don't care if it's on the way to vest. I get up there. But when I'm stuck, I literally crank up. It's disco for me. I'm like, my brother's like, yeah. And I dance around until I work out. Yeah, makes me want to do more. So tell me about the weighted vest. So origin story for me was listening to Vonda Wright and some of the people in the osteoporosis world about we have an epidemic of low bone density in this country and for multiple reasons. And what can we do about it? So I'm a scientist. So I do the literature. I start digging. I'm like, what can we do? We know hormone therapy helps and not everybody can take it. And so what do we know works? I had three, four, five, six, nine, seven articles on doing weight vest training with elderly patients who had osteoporosis and they were seeing bone benefits from this mechanical low. And I'm like, and I knew like the bros were wearing them for tactical training, but I don't like listening to the wellness guys that much. I'm like, what are the women doing? Like what helps me? Right, of course. Not a 25 year old male athlete. And I was like, there's pretty good data. It's not going to hurt me. I'm already walking. I'm just going to throw this on when I'm walking or doing housework. I mean, it could hurt you if it's too heavy for your body. Exactly. So I go to Amazon and I pick out what looks like a decent weight vest. And I started like six pounds. Then I'm digging like, how heavy do you have to be to see benefit for bones? Right. And the benefits were about 10% of your ideal body weight. So for me, that's like 12 pounds. So like, all right. So I get a 12 and I immediately decide, I'm going to go walk on the seawall, which in Galveston we have this big walk along the water for like seven miles. Well, almost died that she is. That was way too much. I realize you have to build up to it. Of course. You have to slow. Right. But I love it. And then I keep talking about it and I'm making videos with my weight of vest. Right. I think there's a picture in the book where I'm at a fashion show. It was Ford model of the year. I was a young makeup artist. I must have been 20, four years old. I'm wearing Richard Simmons shorts. I'm seeing the makeup in your ears in the... Right. But what you couldn't see is I was wearing leg weights. So I used to bring my leg weights to work like years ago. Yeah. Yeah. This was like in, you know, the disco. The little ankle weights. The little ankle weights. Yeah. I used to always travel with them. That's amazing. I love that. I used to wear them in the OR under my scrubs. Okay. And then like, at the long case, they made so much fun of me. I was doing like squeezes and stuff behind the OR table on these pieces. You do not seem to be afraid of failure. I don't believe in failure. Yeah. Like to me, what is failure? I mean, yeah, some things don't work out, right? I got fired. Some marriages don't work out. Some relationships don't work out. Some businesses don't work out. That just means it's a big message to do something else. Yeah. And especially if you learn from it. My daughter's out there really, I'm just listening. Yeah. But you learn from it. And so it's funny because people say, oh, you're fearless. And that's not true. I'm a very, you know, I'm a very kind of anxious, fearful person when it's my kids. I worry about them when they're flying, when they're driving. I'm not a daredevil, but I'm not afraid to pick up the phone and call someone, ask something, do something, start something new. And I love when I've never done it before and don't know anything about it. That's my sweet spot. So I want to talk about our moms. I'll start with my grandmother. So my mom is one of seven children. My mother was the oldest. And my grandmother suffered from mental illness. They kind of glossed it over in her lower. But my mom said enough throughout the years to where she was hospitalized on a few occasions. My grandmother, she had shock treatments. My mom did admit that. And my mother was left at home to take care of her siblings. My grandfather was not a whole new mom. He hands on dad. She was probably 15. So old enough. Yeah, but yeah, that's still. Managed six other kids, you know, I guess some of my aunts kind of jumped in, but it's kind of a time that it's not been talked about right. Right. And her family and it's a lot of reflection on my part. My mother also has suffered from mental illness. She was medicated. I remember seeing the bottles of beauty saw in her bathroom and that was her, her, her nervousness, right? Right. And I looked it up when I was researching for the net for the new paramedic paws and thinking about when was mom in paramedic paws and when were those dates most likely. And my mom has dementia now and really can't give me any historical context. So I looked it up and I realized it's a sedative. So my mom was sedated. She had eight children. You know, lost one when I was nine. She had lost one child. Next one's out of the closet. Next one's in rehab. You know, she's going through a lot at the time. I was a little bit dramatic. And then had three little kids too, you know, all the same. So she self-medicated with alcohol. So I grew up in a very tumultuous household. There was very little stability. Little kid, I think I was fine, but like you said, you know, like things changed. Life got in the way and, you know, it's taken me 50 years of perspective to understand my mother and really what she went through. I've turned out okay. You know, reading about your mom and those first couple of chapters and, you know, I created this life for my children with as much stability as possible. I married the most solid man in America. I chose a career at the time that was a guaranteed income, even though I was away from the house a lot, you know, and I was always worried about them and them not growing up with all of the upheaval that I had. How was that for you? Well, very similar. You know, my mother really wasn't diagnosed until I was in seventh grade. So for most of my upbringing, you know, it was normal. It was our normal. I didn't really know, notice anything different. And I had no any different about her. And so when she had her quote-unquote first nervous breakdown, you know, where my sister found her in the bathroom trying to cut her wrists, that was the first time we realized there's a big problem. And she was hospitalized. And, you know, I remember that one flew out of the cookus nest was the movie of the year. And so that was the first time I ever heard that people had... We didn't say mental illness. We said nervous breakdown. And, you know, we'd visit my mom in this hospital. She was in there for, you know, probably months. And my father was taking care of the kids while working. There was only three of us, not eight of us. And he hired a woman to come in and, you know, cook and do the laundry and do whatever we needed. But it was, you know, it was an intense time. But honestly, I think about it. And where my brain goes, you know, when I laugh a little bit that my mother made some really good ash trays, you know, because that's what she did when she was in the hospital. And my father and I got to spend all this time together, bonding and talking. And, you know, he told me how important I was to the stability of, you know, the brothers and sisters. And I needed to, you know, to be the quote-unquote mom. And I felt, you know, I felt that was a really big deal for me. I just somehow didn't look at it as bad. And I was never worried, oh, no, what if I get it or what if my kids get it? Like I never thought about stuff like that. I didn't worry about that for me either. I somehow felt like I was stronger and I've definitely had therapy. Right. Yeah. But I haven't had nearly the stuff that my mother has gone through. What I do worry about now is dementia. Right. And but that's biological, you know, and there's a lot of things I can do. There's a lot later to decrease that risk. Yeah. Well, my mother also, before she passed had dementia, but she was on medication for, you know, most of her adult life. And, you know, we know that that is something that, you know, risk. Yeah. Antalis, who's 94, she's never taken a medication in her life. No thyroid, no harm. Nothing. Nothing. Everything's fine. She's my mom's sister. She's my mom's sister. Okay. And then when your mom was hospitalized, does she step in to help? She was always there. Yeah. We live near each other and yeah, she was always there. And you, you write about my mother was also hyperglam. Mm-hmm. It was the 60s and 70s and even the early 80s. And I can remember her sitting at that makeup table. I kept it for a long time. Right. And even had, it was wood and it had a cigarette burn. And I had it refinished, but I wouldn't let them cover that part, you know, because. There was always a cigarette hanging off the bathroom. Yeah, she set that. And there were always like, the marble always got stained. I just, you wrote about that. I was like, oh my god, that was my mom. I would watch and I couldn't wait to go play. And she had those little plastic, you know, ins all the organizers with all the different makeup coming out. I just loved sitting there. It was, it was definitely a different time. There's another passage that really resonated with me and I'm going to read it. You were talking about, I think you were flying overseas and doing all these press tours for the brand and to quote, there's a particular mixture of exhaustion and adrenaline in these moments that I've grown to know well. It's bone chillingly painful to be tired, but I know I have to perform or I won't have a career. Not only does the makeup have to look red on the model, but I also have to look good while I have people to support me. Ultimately, I am the one who has to perform. There's so much at stake, such responsibility to the company and myself. I put my exhaustion aside and performed. Of course, I over caffeinated to keep myself going. Then I get into bed at night, wired from the coffee and the stress and wondered why I couldn't sleep. It was hard, but I did this because it was more than my job. It was a calling. I really felt that in my bones. That was a choice I made becoming a physician. That was built into the system. You knew you were going to work long hours. You knew you were going to stay up past your bedtime and be in these crazy, emergent situations. I left traditional hospital practice in 2021 to open my menopause clinic, no more surgery, no more hospital. I really felt like I was walking away from that part of my life. I didn't realize that being a founder of a company. It's a whole other set of people. We're getting all of that back. I've been feeling a little bit alone in this journey. Sometimes, everything's on my shoulders as a founder. If I don't perform, if I don't step up to the plate, if I don't bring it every time and get on those planes and stay in hotels, the company is going to suffer and all these people who are counting on me. I'm just so glad you wrote that because I felt like she gets it. However, when I was working for a corporation, there were their rules. I was not in control and in charge. When you are a founder and it's your company, you have the ability to say, okay, let's pause. Just stop. Let's look at this. What's working for the company and what's working for me? That's the thing about starting this next phase of my life because I started Jones Road at 62 years old. We just celebrated five years. I'm 68 years old now. I don't feel it, but I know that I have the ability to cancel anything I need to cancel to recalibrate what's going on. I have no one to blame except myself. I am on this book tour and it is my friend's own thing. It's exhausting. It's cruel. No one around me believes what I am able to do. It's okay to be tired. You know what? The good news when it's tired, I canceled my workout this morning because I just couldn't get up. I canceled my blowout. So what? It was two days ago blowout. It's still fine. I realize things don't matter. That has made it easier for me to do what I'm doing. I'm not doing any less, but I'm taking away the pressure. My team is great in saying, hey, are you okay? Is this too much? You always say yes. I'm fine. I do. I do too. Until I kind of break. And then I'm like, it's okay to break and it's important to have your pasta around you that is there when you do break. Okay, don't worry. We got you. Okay, we could do this. You can't cancel that thing, but you could phone this one in or we could reschedule this. You know, because you can't do everything. We think we can. And also when we accept jobs and calendars when we feel healthy and great, no problem. It's a cake, but then when we start feeling exhausted and run down, it's like, what did I do? Yeah. And you know what? You're allowed to kind of say, okay, I need to take a break. So what if you cancel? So what? Trust your guts. The theme throughout the book. I don't think I was taught to trust my gut. Well, I don't think anyone teaches you to trust your gut. Look, you're someone that is, I'm sure you got all good grades your whole life. I did. Right? I didn't. I don't think that what's going to serve me are things that aren't written in a book, are not taught in a business school. They're just, they're in aid for me. Like I get it. Like I know how to do this, but it's kind of trusting your gut, which, you know, I'm not a thinker as much as I'm a do or do or, but you know, the whole trust in your gut thing, this is gut thing because I always have digestive issues. So I'm like, maybe it's my gut that's giving me my digestive issues. And then the power of no. And the power of no. That feels so good. That feels so good. I'm like, yeah. You know, my person. Right. Well, in, by the way, you could text me any time. Like I have these women that understand what we're going through. Not everyone understands this. And you know, when I'm in these situations that I'm so overloaded, the first thing I do when I have a second, I'm not, I don't get a massage, which I should be doing. I'm not sitting in a bath. I call my friends. And I have these friends that I, that are everything to me. They're not on Instagram. They have no idea what I'm doing. Whatever they read or see on how they get the media. And so I, but I need to at least have a 15 minute talk. How are you doing? How's your dog? How's your kids? I like that keeps me grounded. I need to check in with my people. I'm glad to hear you say that. I've transitioned, you know, recently. I kind of was in the same job and raised the kids together. You know, I have friends from college, friends from high school, friends from medical school, friends from my training program, and then the mom friends. Right. And that's kind of my core. Right. And we all kind of did this path together of raising kids and I was at the hospital and they would pick up my kids and my husband was traveling. And then now I've transitioned to this and I have to really make an effort. Right. Yeah. To reach out to them or else to say you will not have them. Yeah. Right. And sometimes it's just a phone call. Sometimes it's a text. And I have even one particular friend that I know she feels bad when I'm not in touch. And every once in a while I text her when I'm leaving some TV show before I'm going somewhere else, I just want to let you know, I'm overloaded, but I'm thinking of you. I'll call you on Friday when I'm back. That is great. So those little things have made a difference in the book. At the, you know, towards the end, I got a little teary. It was very sweet. You talk about how you define success now. And I define myself by grades, you know, which got me to medical school. I define myself by number of patients I was seeing, did I was, was I making the most money in the practice, all these external things were my kids making good grades as poor girls. Right. You know, one is a creative and I'm still trying to figure her out. And the other one is just like me. I'm five minutes. She's out there. Yeah. And my other one's in medical school. So she kind of, you know, is found that path. But I loved how you said you're the way you define success. Right. You're family. My family. My kids. And you speak of your daughter in law. You're, you're, you're, you're the women in your son's lives. Yeah. So kindly. But it's so beautiful. I love them. I, you know, and they're not even trust me. Nothing's easy. They both married three sons, two wives, one girlfriend, the two married boys married really strong women, you know, really strong women. And it's interesting for me to watch the dynamics. And it's really I'm proud of both of the boys, you know, how they're maneuvering, you know, two very different relationships. My and I have now a grandmother. I have two grandkids. And it's interesting because the parents of the grandchildren, what is my son, Cody, his second son, he's a CEO of Jones Road. His wife, Pyle is the head of brand. And in the beginning, it was a little difficult. And we've all really grown and learned and communicated how to work together better. And that's, to me, the secret is communication on everything. It just was so beautiful to see, you know, and I was like, I wish someone would write that about me. Oh, so sweetly. I live my mother-in-law, but it was one of those, she likes to point out how different, you know, she raised her kids versus how raised mine. But my kids can't say that now. Yeah, I know that as a mother-in-law, I just ran into trouble because I was worried for my granddaughter running out the back door. And my daughter-in-law just looked at me like, do you not think we are doing exactly what we need to be doing? You know, don't judge me. I'm like, just put a lock on the door higher so Lily doesn't open the door. But then I realized, Bobby, be quiet. You can't say it. I find myself doing that with my girls now. Now, like, took my 25-year-old adult child out to brunch with her boyfriend and was like, you're going to pack that up right and take it home because she hadn't finished her meal. And I was like, shut up. Right. You know, she's grown. It's no, it's hard. It's hard. I mean, you know, my oldest son is 35. You know, I still, I have find my friend on my apps, so I know where they all are. And I, you know, and I checked, they gave that to me from Mother's Day one year. And my youngest son who lived in Telluride for high school, I used to get in bed at night, you know, it was two hours different there. And I would look, oh, everyone's home. Oh, Duke's home, it says Telluride. And then the next, and then he finally told me when he went to college, Mom, I used to leave my phone at home. You know, so you thought I was home. I was not there. So, you know, you've watched how your kids are doing things, how you did things. And this, this generational, you know, you're working with a younger team, I'm assuming. Right. Yeah. How do you see this generational change? You're excited about how the way the kids are thinking and how they're doing things. Oh, I love it. I surround myself with a lot of young people that... Not that we're old. No, no, no. I mean, young people that, you know, certain names, you know, they just don't know when you talk about, you know, popular culture. And, you know, I had Diane von Furstenberg come in to speak about her book. She actually called in from a yacht in Italy to speak to the team. I have the kids didn't never heard of her. And so I made them watch the movie and Google her. Have you ever seen her movie? No. Oh, you got to see it. It'll make you feel so incredible to be alone. I know she is. Yeah. She was known for the rap dress, but she was an original powerhouse woman that just said, why do I have to live my life differently than the man? Wow. She just had that in her head. So it was a really great documentary. But, you know, I love surrounding myself with people that are a lot younger. I love teaching, but I also love learning from them. Yeah. And I also love being with people that are really old. My love of Leonard Lauder is in the book just like my love of my husband. So, yeah. I love my dad and Papa Sam. Now for a midi pause, sponsored by Midi Health. Let's talk about Omega 3s. One of those nutrients that everyone assumes they're getting enough of. Spoiler alert. Most of us aren't. Omega 3 fatty acids are essential and critical and their structural components of nearly every cell in your body. Not only do they keep your heart strong and your blood vessels flexible, they support brain health. They reduce unwanted inflammation throughout your body and help your immune system function optimally. Now, if you're consistent with eating fatty fish like salmon, macro or sardines multiple times a week, you're likely getting what you need. But let's be honest, most of us aren't doing that. That is why Omega 3 supplementation can make sense. It's one of the most well researched, evidence-based interventions we have. When I talk about supporting your health through perimenopause, menopause, and beyond, it's about equipping your body with what it needs to function the way it's meant to. Omega 3s are one of those functional pieces. Working quietly but powerfully to support every system in your body. If you're thinking about where to invest in your long-term health, Omega 3s are an excellent place to start because real health isn't just about living longer. It's about living stronger, sharper, and more vibrant at every age. So, what advice would you give to a woman in midlife that's most of my listeners who are thinking about launching or doing something different? Well, first of all, ask yourself what it is and is it different or better than what's on the market, whatever it is. And again, I don't care if you launch a business that chops vegetables and puts them in ziplock bags and sells them. By the way, if you do call me because I would love to hire someone to do that simple stuff in my life, but also just do it. Just start doing it, doing it little, seeing if it works, seeing if people like what you're doing, and seeing if you like what you're doing. Everyone wants to be an entrepreneur. Everyone wants to be a founder. Everyone wants their own business. Well, A, it's not for everybody. Yeah. It's not for everybody. There's a lot of spaghetti for that, a lot of walls at our house. And a lot of founders need a second person to make sure that they are dream catchers. My husband was with Chevron. So, you know, Dr. Engineer doing our things. And then as the business started growing, he has an MBA, and he kind of was helping out, but still working for Chevron. And suddenly he's doing more and more and taking on more and more. And I'm like, you're actually good at this stuff. Like I need to stay in my zone of genius. I mean, I did everything in the beginning. I didn't know what I was doing on social media and building websites and doing all this stuff. But he eventually did retire earlier than originally planned and now completely runs all that. He didn't, he never retired. I think that word needs to go out. Well, he says, you know, he's still like, like what I'm doing is not really work. I'm like, you know, you haven't done that. You've ever had in your entire life. You know, it's one of the, it's one of my trigger words when people say, how's retirement? Like for a result, no one retires. They just shift into doing something else. And even if that means you're playing golf all day, you're playing tennis. Yeah. That's what you're doing now. You're not retired. It sounds like some old person sitting in a chair. And that's the quickest way to die. It is. 100%. I read through Joyce Van. There's a gerontologist. I'm like fascinating with aging now, right? And I'm like, how do women age? I just want to stay out of nursing home. I want my time of loss of independence to be like as short as possible. And she talks about using your brain and human connection. Really, if you run the cancer gauntlet, you don't have a heart attack. Like what is really going to determine your joy, joy, joy, and living a joyful life is keep thinking, keep creating and keep connecting. Right. And honestly, keep moving. Yes. And Dallas, who's 94 has a, she says not boyfriend. That's her best friend, but they're together and have this great relationship. He's 95, going in 96, he walks around the retirement community with ski poles or walking poles. And he just walks. He never stops. He goes out walks. The property comes in walks it. He just walks and he is so vibrant. Yeah. You know, he also is on some kind of a GLP. And he said it keeps, it keeps him young. Yeah. He said it keeps my brain. It keeps me young. And he's not done. From a medical standpoint. I am so fascinated by that drug. You know, probably 25% of our patients are on it. And it is, it can be life changing with a whole other discussion. All right, back to beauty. All right. I'm still served ads that are anti-aging and it drives me crazy. There isn't such a thing. No. I mean, I'm older now than when I first arrived here. Like, there's nothing that's going to anti-age you. There's things that will age you, like smoking and not wearing sunscreen and stress and bad food and, you know, all that kind of stuff. But I'm a liver. It's, you know, I'm not looking to use the term anti-age at all. I just, I want to be more vibrant. And I do that through makeup and I do it through what I put in my body and I do it through positive attitude. So the book you talk about somewhere around 50, probably around your menopause I'm guessing. You went through a whole health transformation and tell me about the course you went to and your UV and health cuts. So I had my last baby at 41. The time I was 48, I was full on, you know, and yeah, like I started barely getting periods and I just was detached. There was something not right. So I went on bio-identical hormones. I've always been someone. That's really rare that you found someone who would give them to you. How did that happen? Because I read Suzanne Summers' book. I mean, I read the book. That's all there was. That's all there was. And I actually did the research and found one of her New York doctors. And I went to him. My husband also went to him and he's the one that taught me about it and I went on it. And it was like a miracle on it. And I was so afraid of, you know, breast cancer and the family. Of course. I eventually went off it and I felt awful again. I went right back on and, you know, I've not been off it since and I'm way past menopause. But I just feel like it, I think it keeps me young. It's always protecting your bones and if you, and it can continue to give you cardiac benefit if you start young and after. So my husband teases me that, you know, if I don't develop a contraindication, if I do, then we'll deal with that. That when they open my casket, there will be bones and a little plastic estrogen patch, you know, I'm now right on my skeleton. But you will bury me with that being. It's amazing. And I finally have the right medical team. I have a functional nutritionist who's amazing and her sister who is an MD that left a woman's practice and now they work together. That's amazing. Because I used to just take the functional doctor that would read all the different tests and I would go to my doctor that prescribes and they say, where'd you get this information? No. And so it was always a struggle. And now I have a team that I get to work with that look at all, the doctor looks at the labs. Yeah. And then the functional one looks at these other things and they discuss it together. Yeah. So I'm a big believer in functional medicine. I'm a big believer in regular medicine too. Well, I think there's a meat in the middle. I try to do the best of functional in our clinic and everything I learned from my standard MD alopathic OBGYN. I have all of that. And then I have all the new knowledge. I went back to school for nutrition. I, you know, and there's a way to a real school. So it is a, it's called culinary medicine. And it's the national academy of culinary medicine. And so the courses I took were through Tulane. And then I did my labs in San Antonio at a test kitchen because we work with nutrition dietician. That's amazing. We actually went in and cooked in the kitchen and did some real practical hands on stuff with the internal medicine. Right. Well, I went to the Institute of Integrative Nutrition which teaches people to become health coaches. Yeah. And a health coach is not a nutritionist. We don't get the science courses, but we learn about how, you know, functional nutrition really works and how you crowd out a bad diet with healthy things and how you start realizing and helping people to change their habits. And who are you coaching? Anyone that has? Anyone that has? No one, no, I don't get paid for it. Anyone that has. So, you know, my kids are getting served these messages too. So I see that the little girls going into biscayne care, you know, at the Sephora, like 12-year-olds. I mean, that's crazy. It's crazy. You know, I don't go into Sephora very much, but when I kind of go and if I have an extra minute and it's there, I go in and I see a lot of fathers on a Saturday with their young children. And it's actually really sweet with their young daughters with like a gift card left over from their birthday or Christmas. And you know, hopefully they're buying lip gloss and eye shadow and not retinal. Yeah. Because, you know, a 15 or a 12-year-old does not need retinal. No, and they don't even need to know what it is. They're being marketed. Right. I had bows in my hair. It was running around the dirt right in my ex at 12. That's what you're supposed to be doing. So I wasn't worried about, you know, am I glowy enough for my Instagram. But you know what? You can't fight the new world, which is social media. You just have to be the voice of reason to your girls. You know, I've written two books for teenage girls on beauty and makeup. I'll probably do a third because it's the generations that come back to me say I started with your book that helped me appreciate my freckles or my strong nose. What do you want, you know, younger women? So you're talking to my daughters right now about aging. What would you tell them? Well, first of all, instead of wasting your time with aerobics, do weights. Oh, that is. That is a big regret I have that I did. It was the Jane Fonda, you know, stepperlobex. Stepperlobex. Stepperlobex. Okay. Yeah. I was not coordinated enough for stepperrobex. I was always doing my own thing. What a surprise. But I was feeling the burn with Jane Fonda. I was definitely feeling the burn. No, you do weights and you just you feel better, you look better and it's not about how skinny you are. It's about how strong you are. Stronger for skinny. And yeah, and I would tell them that. And I would also say just really think about what you love in your passion and try to build your life around it. And nothing's perfect. You can have whatever life you create for yourself. It's not going to be easy and it's not going to be perfect and that's okay. Looking back now, what would you tell that 34 year old Bobby with your couple of decades? Well, the 34 year old Bobby, I would say, okay, learn how to chill because you're going to be doing this in your 60s, 70s and probably 80s if not, you know, if not 90s. So I plan, you know, and hope to live to 100 and I really want my 90s to be great. My dad is early 90s. His brother and sister lived to their middle 90s. I would like to be healthier. Me too. All right. I can't, I just love, love, love, love. I love easy. I love when the book when you talk about, listen, I'm not making these for super models. I'm making this for the busy working mom who's putting this on in the car or in the train. Real fast during her makeup. So what they have the little setup here. What's in here? So that's the five year kid. And it'll probably be sold out by the time, you know, we talk about it. But and I gave five new products. So which we will probably, you know, that's the one in the little time. Yeah. And that color is called cheeky. And it's actually the color that you're wearing on your lips. And you know, you could put it on your cheeks. You could wear it on your lips. And yeah, we had two different colorways. Really pretty. And it works when you have nothing on your face. That's what's so great. But first of all, I hope your makeup artist approves, but it looks really pretty. She's probably. Yeah. I think really kind of gave you a little lift. And that is that one I'm not going to like for you because it's too dark. Okay. So you can give it to someone with darker skin. But this one is an illuminator. It comes in two colors. We'll try to get you the pinky one because it's just wakes up your skin. I love this guy. That's espresso. It is a darker like only someone like me could take a dark brown and think I could improve on it. So we still have the dark brown. But now I made espresso, which is the color of an espresso. Okay. That's deeper. And I'm really excited to try this. Yeah. People are going to be thrilled. So this is an eyeshadow stick that you could line your eyes. You could smudge it in a pinch. You could use it in your part between touch ups, which is so nice. And that is still coloring my hair. Yeah. And you know what? And I might forever. It's okay. It's still with dementia getting her hair colored and then nursing home. You know, people always say to me, why won't you just let it? I'm 100% gray. Why won't you let me go gray? I've done it. I want to. I don't and I don't think I always said, well, maybe when I'm 60, then I said 70. And now I'm like, you know what? I don't shoot things in my face. So if coloring my hair makes me feel, you know, younger, I'm going to just go for it. And then that's 18. That's 18. This is what I launched before I had a company. It's a great color. It works on everybody. This again, you could use on your cheeks. And we made this so I can give it out for Halloween. And it was people requested all the time so we brought it back for the kit. So menopause, you know, isn't just one day in our life. It is the last period till the rest of our lives. But it often feels like, you know, when I thought about it as a 30 year old, it was by time to be invisible. I didn't even have a picture of a woman other than an old woman, an elderly, decrepit, kind of frail woman. But that's not it. I am healthier, happier, living the best life that I've ever lived. I wouldn't go back. I love my whole life before, but I feel like this is the sweet spot for me right now. And it's only going to get better. What have you decided to unpause for yourself at this time of life? Well, first of all, when I think of pause, I never do pause. And I need to pause a little bit. But, you know, what did I unpause? I think I've just given myself permission to do whatever I feel like doing. Whatever it is. I can't wait to go home today and see my granddaughter. That is my priority today. I'm going to take your grandma name. My grandma name is BB. BB. Yeah, my grandma name is BB. I'm very proud of the name. Yeah. I love it. Well, thank you for being on pause. Oh. I'm so glad to spend this time with you and educate our listeners all about still Bobby, excellent book. I mean, I think it should be required reading for all young women, just a story of resilience and grit and determination. And you're just about to ask them. Oh, thanks. And I know what if I could do it? I don't even could do it. Yeah. So, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Awesome. As a reminder to our audience, you can follow Bobby on Instagram at justbobby.com or at Jones Road Beauty. And Bobby's new book, Still Bobby is currently available on Amazon. I'd love to hear from you about this topic or anything else that's on your mind. You can find me on Instagram at Dr. Mary Claire and get honest and accurate information on health, fitness and navigating midlife at thepawslife.com. Also my new book, The New Perry, Menopause, is available for pre-order now on Amazon. If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite podcast apps so you never miss an episode. While you're there, leave us a review and be sure to share the show with the women you love. We would be so grateful. You can also find full episodes on YouTube at Dr. Mary Claire. Amazon Paws is presented by Odyssey in conjunction with Pod People. I'm your host, Dr. Mary Claire Haver. The views and opinions expressed on unpaws are those of the talent and guests alone and are provided for informational and entertainment purposes only. No part of this podcast or any related materials are intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment.