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All of those places and tons in between. Try our new iced cherry vanilla matcha today. Matcha at Costa, made with heart. Hi, I'm Kristen Davis and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? Welcome back, everybody, to Are You a Charlotte? We have Craig Birko, part two. He's so great as Ray King, as I'm sure you all remember. So when you you were doing the music, man, you were at the tail end. So you were you simultaneously filming with us and still performing? I think so. I may have I may have taken the week off, but I don't know. I didn't like to take too much time off because I always feel like it's always horrible. If anything is different. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, you just like I'm on stage doing the show. I'm on stage, you know, you just yeah, whatever. That's incredible. But I think I did take a week. And then I think I don't know if they bought me back or it was originally for two episodes. I don't remember. There was some kind of an extension situation, I feel like. Yeah, because I think you were just so great and Sarah loved you so much. And I think everyone was so happy. And it was just such a you really were a breath of fresh air at that point, you know, in terms of the storyline, but also your presence. And I do remember there were going to talk about the episode in a minute, but I do remember something and I feel like this was something that you were doing in life. Like it was kind of like a precursor to social media in a way. Like you had a blog or a vlog or something. Do you remember this? Was it while I had a very crazy first episode of a talk show? Maybe that's what it was. You had something that we were like, wow, he's so multifaceted. It might have been was it bathing with Bjerko? Yes. Oh, my God. What was it? Yeah, I'm so proud of that. I did. I had this crazy idea of I love talk shows. But I also sometimes they they really get lost with talk shows. And I remember I was joking around with a friend of mine. And we were I think we were talking about Bert Reynolds used to have a talk show like in the 80s. Wow. He was trying. Yeah, it was it was that sort of like he done that stroke race, post stroke race, the Lonnie. Wow. What am I doing? Like, OK, OK, I'm an aging guy. Sometimes I I don't know. He was throwing all kinds of messages out to everybody. Wow. About what he was and what he was. Predelections were not that any of that matters, but it was a confusing Bert Reynolds period. OK, OK. And I remember he had a talk show called Bert Reynolds talking with. Wow. OK. And it was and it was I remember watching it and going, oh, my God, and no offense. But this was the feeling I was like every time I watched this show, I feel like whenever it's over, I feel like I'm just getting off of a great gay cruise. It was so it was so like they shot him like they shot Barbara Walters and her specials are dying to just this fuzz. And he always had like a pastel sweater and flowers. And that always made me laugh. And it was always like the same guest, Dom Delouis, Jim Neighbors. And I was like, am I watching a talk show or am I at, you know, but was I called Plato's Retreat? Wow, wow, wow. It wasn't that bad, but it wasn't that I'm not that far off. It was it was strange and it lasted like two episodes or something. Oh, my God, this isn't right. This isn't right. But I remember that and I remember joking around with a friend and thinking the only thing that would have been sent me more ill at ease, I think, was if if he was bathing his guests. Oh, my God, where are we going? We actually started talking about like, wouldn't that be funny? And maybe we should shoot that. And there was no this was pre-internet. So I was like, where would I go? I don't know. I think I was just riffing. And the original idea was to sit on the side of a tub like in a caftan and just sort of like brush the person and ask questions like you're asking me. And I'm just and never reference it. Never. What? And then I I I had lunch with a friend of mine, this guy, Rob Cohen, comedy writer, came off the Simpsons. Very funny guy. And I told him about the show. He said, just do it. Just do it. And so he found some camera people for me. And I I told my agent at the time and she said, you think Malcovich would do it? And I said, are you asking me? What? I said, she goes, let me ask him. And I said, my God. And so he said, yes. And I had to go to the I had to go. Is this too much? No, I love it. I love it. What on earth? I went to the Beverly Hills Hotel where he was. He had a bungalow and I met with him. And I'm sitting there and I explain the show to him. I will be sitting in a tub that's too small for me. And I'm going to be bathing you and I'm just going to ask you. And at that point, I wanted to just be straight, like just, you know, a ridiculous situation. I'm just going to ask you about Steppenwolf and, you know, your fashion line and all that. And he said, OK. I said, I want to tell you what it is again, just because I think I should have told you twice, but maybe you didn't hear it. So I told him again. He goes, yeah, it's OK. Wow. And he showed up. It was shot a good friend of mine, Mishie Rest in Peace, the other Carrie in my life. I'm sorry. That's OK. Right. Sure. Oh. Yeah, I get a little over. OK, Fisher, who's also on our show? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Did you get snow at all? Not no, no. We tried to leave her alone because I remember it was the LA episodes and everybody was so excited, but we didn't want to like overwhelm the situation. You know, but she was she was un-overwhelming. Incredible. Oh, we should have. We should have. She lived in overwhelm. That was that that's her comfort zone. Right. Right. Right. Wow. Wait, she was involved also. She. Well, that's her tub, because I was staying in her guest house. I've been living on and off for a couple of years. Wow. And so I remember looking at that tub and it was hilarious because it was a bathroom, but it had room for three cameras. And there was a piano in it because Carrie Fisher was a piano. And so even if we wanted to have a band, whatever we wanted to do, but we had cameras there, not big ones, but we had cameras and it was crazy. It was almost like the room was crying out for it. I think Edith, Edith had built the house and then Betty Davis lived there. Oh, my gosh. And then Carrie Fisher. Wow. So we we did it. I think if you it's something you can show actors because John Malkovich is so brilliant because it's a ridiculous situation. And the whole idea is let's make something that's so awkward. You almost don't want to look at it. Wow. And yeah, it was just it was just there was just seemed wrong. That's all it was just wrong. And and and all he did was he wanted a cup of black coffee. And and some direction. And I said, I think it's Charlie Rose. And instead of a wooden table, just pretend this is the way these shows are done. You've done a million of these. Wow. And probably don't want to, you know, whatever it is, just treat it like a talk show. OK. And that's exactly what we laughed once, but it was because I it suddenly occurred to me that. I'm I'm spooning John Malkovich. This is crazy. Oh, my God, we have a picture. How did that happen? Easton, my producer is so good. This is so crazy that we need a picture to fully understand what is happening. Wow. I have other pictures that are hilarious. Oh, my gosh. I'll give you a scoop. I'll give you a scoop. I can't believe I'm on that. I might have should talk about Sex in the City. I'm talking about bathing with. But this is great. I need to know about this. We shot the thing. But I don't think we knew what we had. It took us a couple of weeks to edit it because we were we were like, is this an hour long thing? Because we had an hour of it. Wow. Do we still the whole thing? Because a lot of the conversation was just interesting. He was talking about Steppenwolf and and the more we edited it, the more we realized, oh, because we were trying to figure out, we know it's funny, but how do we sustain this? Yeah, it's a weird idea. But yeah, we make it funny and comfortable, you know. And then we realized, oh, the guest is the straight man. And I'm the idiot. And we just came up with the question, start out normal and they get ridiculous. At one point, I'm just asking him to repeat words that sound strange, you know. Wow. Whatever. And he played along brilliantly. And then so for the and then we put it out and we didn't know what to expect. And it it was one of the early like viral videos. I know. OK, this is exactly because I remember Sir Jessica being like, you wouldn't believe what Craig Mirko is doing. We were like, what? But yeah, it was. But that was after the music, man. So that would have come out. Got it. Got it. No, I think you guys were still chatting or whatever, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think did we have our I think we had our Blackberries at that point. I think this was the days of the Blackberry. I remember I would make fun of her all the time because I could never figure one out. I was on. No, she got me into it. We lived on those things. We lived on those things. Different time that feels like it feels like we're like in wagons or something. But we were using Blackberries. It's true. So wait, what happened with the bathtub show? Oh, it was it was a big deal. And unfortunately, I didn't see eye to eye with what Rob wanted to do because we shot a second one. And that was the thing is for every one hundred letters we'd send out, we'd get maybe one response, because who wants, you know, oh, I'd be scared to death. Yeah. So that's of course. That's why it was so good to have one episode in the can that we could show people. But anyway, of all people, Richard Dreyfus saw it and said, I want to do it. Oh, my God. I want to do it. And I almost drove off the road. I was like, OK, great. What? And he knew. Carrie, he knew Carrie. So this was all great. Wow. It all was falling into place and he wouldn't take his shirt off. He wouldn't get undressed. So and so, you know, we figured we'll we'll we'll shoot it. If I can find it, I'll look while I'm here. Oh, my God. I'll give you an explosive. But there is an episode. There's a there's a second episode. We're dry. It's the first episode. I'm very pleased with it. So surreal. And you don't it just sort of clobbers you over the head. And the second one was we thought like, what do you do once the joke is? I mean, it's a very simple premise. Right. I don't and I didn't know if it was a show. I thought maybe it's a New Yorker cartoon, just one thing. And out. But we had Richard do it and it's funnier. It's really funny. He was really funny. But he it looks like he's sitting in the tub with his clothes on. He must have been self conscious or something. Right. But the most surreal thing and probably my favorite part of the whole experience was his daughter and his wife had come up and they were standing in the bathroom going, take the shirt off. Because I'm not going to take the shirt off. I'm not going to take it off. Wow. You can yell at me and I'm sitting in a tub going. I thought being in a tub with John Malkovich was weird. But I'm in the middle of a family argument in a tub with Richard Dryfus. And I just loved my life. But it wasn't right. And I just thought. I'm glad he came. It was really nice to meet him. It was funny. I mean, we had the mashed potatoes. Crazy. Super fascinating. He was doing. Oh, God, it was I had him repeat. I said, the thing you that line in Jaws, it made me want to be an actor. Wow. This was no voting accident. Can you do that? And he did it. And I said, but do it like you did it. Oh. And he did it. And I went, I don't know. I don't know what you're doing. And I just he played along with it. It was just a lot of awkward. It was just whatever was awkward. It sounds like a precursor to like so much of what is online at this point. And also, it makes me think of the show that Zach Galifianakis did, like the Fern Show. Do you remember that? It was similar to that. Yeah. Wow. You were ahead of your time, Craig. Well, I just loved it. You know what? I love Will Ferrell. And Will Ferrell had sort of introduced this comedy of discomfort. You know, him walking into a room with tiny underwear on. And he just doesn't notice it. And he's just reaching past you and stuff like that. But it's safe because you know, the underwear isn't going to come off. And you know, and it was brilliant. But I thought, what would be what's the next step? Wow. And I think it was to this day, people are like, you're not naked in the tub, are you? And I'm like, well, it's John Malkovich. What do you what do you think? Which means nothing. And I just love that people were like, you were. And then to this day, they're just like, I love it, but that's weird. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, I mean, it's super fascinating for you to feel weird. Yeah, that was great. Wow. It became this huge thing. It got away, you know, like the New York Times and then people writing saying they wanted to be on it. And I met with Lauren Michaels. Yeah. And I'm like, this is crazy. Wow. And Lauren Michaels is saying, I can't tell Andy Sandberg at the time was in the cast, he goes, I can't tell Andy Sandberg that he can't have the last sketch in the show because some guy in California, I said, yeah, I don't know why I'm here. You know, and I just said, this is this can. I don't know what where this would fit into your show. I love your show. And I said, can I just use my 10 minutes to ask you questions? He said, sure. Wow. Oh, that's a great story. Yeah, I loved it. Oh, my gosh. Super fascinating. You're very, very interesting. I knew this. I'll send you pictures because I have pictures of Richard Dreyfuss. I love. Yeah, I'd love to see. I'd love to see. I knew there was something where I was like, he did something really odd after. And I couldn't remember what it was. So thank you so much. Experience. It's knowing the difference between a good deal and, well, a great deal. That's why right now you can get a 250 pound gift card when you take out Saga Health Insurance. You get 24 seven GP access whenever you want it. And the freedom to choose your preferred private hospital with your own room, should you need it? Search Saga Health Insurance for a quote today. Start a new policy before the 28th of May. New customers over 50 only terms and conditions apply. Virgin Media gives you show stopping TV and broadband. You get the channels you love, including Netflix and now Sky Atlantic at no extra cost. That's epic entertainment. You can't stop watching a bit like an elephant cruising on a truck through the bright lights of Bangkok. Plus, you get lightning fast broadband, too. Yeah, that's entertainment. The Virgin Media way. Visit Virgin Media.com. New customers only. Virgin Fiber areas, restrictions and credit checks apply. Terms apply. Let's talk about Samantha for a second. This would be the beginning of Samantha trying to have a relationship with a woman, which I don't even know. I know, like, well, I don't know what led to this decision to do this. We're going to have to ask Michael Patrick when he comes back. But and then I don't know how we got Sonya Braga of all people. Like, wow, wow. And it's interesting because she's, you know, they they meet at the art gallery and she wants to buy her at work and then she realizes she's gay because the lady's around her and then she goes to her studio and they do art together, which is interesting. And then there's kind of a vibe. But then Samantha doesn't say, oh, I am not into women. She says I'm not a relationship person. Right. Which is interesting. And Sonya Braga looks so crestfallen. And I for me, when I was watching it, I thought there was so much kind of subtext about what lesbians want, right? Because Sonya Braga could have been like, well, I'm not a relationship person. Right. Exactly. Right. Yeah. Right. But the thought was like, oh, no, relationships are like what what this character was, right? And I guess it is because then there's there's some to. I've ever been laid out or hinted to before that she might have an interest in there. Yeah. Not that I'm aware of. I mean, except that she just kind of was interested in whatever, right? Like her thing was like, I'm sexual and I'm free. You know what I mean? From that perspective, it doesn't make sense. She says something like, you know, I've done the women thing, but it's mostly been with a man and a woman or whatever. So it is very interesting. And I still I'm basically watching this show as though I've never seen it. At this point. Oh, that's interesting. It is. I don't remember any of this this section of our show. I don't know if I was just really tired. I don't know why I don't remember it, but it's super interesting to watch. I don't I don't know what's going to happen. I know they're going to try. But it's also interesting because Sonya Braga is just such an interesting actress and so so different. Beautiful. Yeah, gorgeous. I used to just stand there. I had to like with you guys, I was always just putting my jaw back. Oh, that's standing at the craft service table, trying not to drool. That's so nice. I think we were just very excited that a new man had shown up finally, finally for Kerry, but also in general, you know what I mean? Because for a while, we used to have like revolving, revolving, revolving. And then we got into these kind of longer story lines. Longer story lines. Yeah, which on the one hand, as an actor, is wonderful, right? Like you're just digging in. But on the other hand, there's something fun about having new people. Yeah. Yeah. There's it's it's it's both of those things. It's just fun to be on a show with a that it's like a carousel, like that people coming in and out, some staying longer than others. Yeah, I I I if it's worth it. If it's worth it. Yes. Yes. Definitely. Definitely. The rest of feed your core cast. They're the people we're really watching. You know, that's true. But I also think like with you guys, especially I was just thinking about kind of the joys of being an actor and having chemistry with somebody. It's something like it. Right. I couldn't have guessed it. Well, you know, you're all very winning and like that's why you're on the show. And like, but sometimes you walk into a room with somebody who's you're like in your mind, they're your best friend. But it's you realize it's a part. It's a role. Yeah, that person. Yes. And I didn't find her necessary. She's she was. A very approachable. I don't know that she would have remembered we did another movie. There was a movie called Till There Was You. Oh, we were both in. But we didn't cross pads on it at all. But and that was a few years. Wow. The forehand. But pretty forgettable move. Who's in it? Jean Triple Horn. Wow. Dylan McDermott. No way. I don't even think I've seen this movie. They were the Tracy and Hepburn of the of the movie. But Sarah Jessica Parker had the, you know, attention getting role of the ex-girlfriend. Oh, got it. And she got to be rich. I remember I just remember a scene in a restaurant where she was being really funny. OK. And I think we stood next to each other for a second. But we didn't really, you know, have anyone. Right. Right. And so I didn't know what to expect. And maybe based on that experience, I thought maybe she's going to be like a movie star and it's just going to be a gig. But it wasn't the minute I came in, I was like, actually, during the meeting, I got it. She's very smart. And so whatever, whatever she needed to draw out of me, I let her draw out, which was this, I think, just sort of somebody who I think that he just needed to be likable and he needed to have his interests and really like her. And I think it's a bit of a fake out, you know, until he opens the door. And he's like, I don't know what shirt to put on. And then it just all starts unraveling. I know, which is kind of sad, kind of sad. It is kind of sad, but I always appreciate it in a way that it didn't have to be. And also that is the fight. It is that ridiculous. Right. It was a tough scene, though, because his mind starts, it starts sparking and it feeds on itself. You know, once you get going like the once it's not like you can unscatter yourself, if you got to like sit down and, you know, there are ways to work through it, but to keep talking about whatever the obsession of the second, it's like you're leaping from obsession to obsession. Interesting. So he was talking about like, why is there no skeet shooting in New York? Oh, you know what? I made fish like and it was a bitch to memorize because it nothing had any. You know, that's really hard. Memorizing lists is the worst. Oh, nothing to do. And it really was like, I like swordfish. You've been to the baseball game. Oh, my God. Yeah, I had to be and you couldn't just do it like a joke. It had to be, you know, do you like sort of specific? I wanted to ask about the kit. Yeah. So there was all this sort of and it was really weird because like I said, and this was another thing I got from Carrie Fisher was lead with whatever your thing is, you know, yeah, like she she that's the way she always was. And it was so inspiring, you know, that, you know, she used to say I used to get awards for acting. Now I get them for being nuts. But she wasn't nuts. It was it was something that she normalized for herself, but most importantly for other people. Definitely. Really made a dent in this world. Just like Michael J. Fox is doing now. He's making a difference. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that was important. And it was important for me like I did think I want to do this, but I'm not going to let them make fun of it. And it never came up. Oh, I'm so glad. It never came up. It was it was it was funny in the way that life is funny and it is funny. Right. Right. But it was it it also was it was properly sad at the end. I was glad that they didn't just make it a, you know, yeah, a show away joke. Like, oh, he's that's what that was his problem. Right. That's why I think it was and the way she played it, they showed her walking home. Yeah. And it was a genuine disappointment. Oh, yeah. Gravity. I really thought that was it's one of the great things about the show is it just didn't go next week's episode like it had. Resonance. Right. Resonance has a good word. Absolutely true. Absolutely true. I just want to say thank you. Thank you for joining us, but also thank you for being part of our show. I love you so much and your part so great. When you guys I think I don't know which movie it was. And then when you guys did the the sequel to the series, one day you were shooting literally across from my apartment. What? Down and while I was down on. Horatio. Oh, yeah. I don't know if you were there, but but there was something the show was shooting at the Whitney. Oh, yeah, I was there. I was there. We were we were all there. Oh, my God. And I had had a thought when I think when you guys were doing that, maybe it was the third or I don't remember which movie was. But I just thought I want to pitch this idea and I don't even want to be paid because it's nothing. And I just think it's a funny idea, which was there he's walking between scenes. So you literally wouldn't have to change anything. But she's walking from one thing to another, looks in a storefront and there's Ray like looking at a can of tuna in their eyes meet. Wow. And he goes like that and she goes in. She goes, Ray, how how are you? How have you been? I'm great. I think of you from time to time and you actually think, is he going to be? And then she goes, it's funny, you know, I don't know if you remember big, Mr. Big and starts and then looks up and I'm gone. And I literally crossed the street. I've seen somebody else that I know. And I'm just there. Just like just a quick ADD cameo. It would be sad all over again. I was going to run over to the Whitney. And I thought I can't be the guy pitching a part. Oh, but it would have been so cute. You should have just come say hi. I would have. I should have said we were there for a long time. We were there for a long time. That was a heavy time, though, too. It's true. I also I didn't. I think the reason I didn't was because there was there was some press about like we're not going. It's not going to, you know, the world has changed. So it's not going to be the happy, go lucky. Let's get shoes. You know, oh, really? Did we say that? That's true. That's not what that's how they said that was live. But but but they they they did say it's not it's not going to be it's not going to be the same tone. Right. It's not it's a it's they really wanted to find the gravity of where would these people be? And time is going on. So there is that element. And I thought I don't know that I like even going into the room as a care as a guy who would be associated with the last. True, though, we could have used your energy. It like a 20 20 hindsight. But I was 20 hindsight, of course. This is going to be like, oh, it's going to be shot like, you know, with handheld. And it's going to be very important, like the whole time. You know, yeah, I know. I know that point. So I thought the last thing they need is the, you know, oh, you're so sweet. I didn't it was it was an impulse. It wasn't I get it. But we would have loved to see you. It's always well next time when you guys come back. I mean, I don't know if we'll ever come back. But who knows with this job and space, sex and space. I love it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, we could do whatever we want. That'd be fun. That'd be fun. OK, I have one more question that I can't forget to ask you. It's a little weird. But would you describe yourself, Craig, as a Charlotte? I think I would because of all the. You know, yours was the one everybody know that it's a trope. Yeah, the same. You're a carrier. Right. I I wouldn't know. I like to think of myself as a full rich human being. Right. You know, contradictions. Sure. I contain multitudes. Of course. I felt like I knew who, you know, yes, it's exceptionally well written, but I could identify. I could almost guess how every character was going to react to things. And it was always a pleasant surprise because it was written smartly and they wouldn't. But I knew the characters and I don't feel like I was able to pigeonhole Charlotte that way. Oh, that's nice. And that way, I like to think that I am a Charlotte. Love it. Because I don't, you know, I don't feel like I fit into any category. It used to frustrate the hell out of me. And now it just frustrates the out of me. But. No, I honestly. I know I know it was. I know that there were differences that that's that's that your character apart and maybe it was just the situations that seemed a little bit more grounded sometimes. Oh, thank you. That's so nice. And the way that you played it, too, it was always just a very. I couldn't I couldn't figure. I wasn't ahead of the character is what I'm saying. Oh, thank you. I mean, I think some of that really I have to credit Michael Patrick with because I think he would envision her arc in such a way that it was really grounded. And then I would just trust him, you know, and it always would kind of veer around in ways that I wouldn't even see coming. But yet her self was always the same, meaning like grounded, you know. Well, you were a joy. Thank you so, so much. So much. It's my pleasure. Thank you. It's really nice to get to talk to you. I know. Thank you. I feel like I've been associated with you, but it's like that's my younger sister by the time she was born. I was in college. No, no, no, no, no, not at all. Not at all. But also, yeah, it is that frustrating thing where like I didn't always get to connect with everybody, you know, that's part of being a show. Yeah. Yeah. But it's nice to get to do so now. I'm glad you're doing it. Thank you. Thank you. I'm glad that you joined us. You added so much. Thank you so much. Right. Then who's all in for cancer research? UK's race for life. Anglers, Ramblers, Climbers, Fiversiders, Surfers, Gamer's, Bikers, Hangliders. Book clubbers. Let's go all in against cancer, all in to help fund life-saving research. Join our London events throughout the summer. Sign up now and say 50% off entry. Visit raceforlife.org. Discount ends 19th of April, 2026. Teas and seas apply. When things don't go to plan, you need car insurance you can rely on. That's why at NFU Mutual, we pay out on 99% of car insurance claims with no quibble. And if you're hit by an out-fault, uninsured driver, your no-claims discount is protected. 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