Survivor 50 Kalo Tribe Preview

Hey everybody, what's going on? Rob Cisternino. We are back one more time for the Kalo Tribe Preview, the final group of eight players that we're previewing here today to talk about Season 50 of Survivor with the man who went down to Fiji to talk to them all. Give it up for Mike Bloom. Hello, hello, hello, to quote RuPaul. And we are here. Category is Season 50 Realness. And reality is, Rob, we are almost done. This is our last group of eight. And we will officially have gone through all of my interviews with all 24 cast members. It's weird to feel. Weird to feel. Yeah, we're almost there. And we're almost done previewing Survivor 50. We're going to be exhausted by the time we have to watch Survivor 50. That's the thing. It's a hell of a warm-up act, you know? You're feeling exhausted in the foreplay. Just wait until the carnival acts are proper. Okay, all right. Good night, everybody. Thank you. It's interesting, this group, Rob, because I feel like we— Premature conclusion to the podcast today. If I had a nickel. It's interesting, Rob, because I think all three of these tribes have very distinct vibes. You know, Selah, the Orange Tribe, has some very interesting pre-existing dynamics worked into it. Of course, we talked last time about the Vatu Tribe, which is just full of the bigger, I think, confrontational characters on the whole. I would say that Kahlo, in general, might have the most winner equity contained in it. Okay. All right. Well, why don't you tell us a little bit about these eight people who have so much win equity? Who are we talking about today? Yeah, let's get into it, shall we? We will reveal the final eight people from the Calo Tribe. Here's the Tribe pick. Rob, get out the specs. Get out my binoculars. Let me see. Who's in there? Enhance. Enhance. Enhance. Who's in there? I see Jonathan playing his day. Well, he is the first one we'll talk about. On the left here, Jonathan Young. We then have Dee Valladares, Mike White, Camila Cartagasso. We've got Charlie Davis, Tiffany Irvin, Coach Ben Wade, and Chrissy Hoffbeck. It's really interesting, Rob. Again, we talked about Vatu being divided equally four versus four in terms of pre-40 versus New Era. The other two tribes are a little bit uneven. This one has five new era players, three seasons, one through 40 players. I just it's interesting. Like, I feel like if you just swapped, like, I don't know, Tiff with Sari or Jenna, you could have gotten that even divide. But it is something that might play into these dynamics, because as has been talked about, the new era is connected, I think, at least colloquially, anecdotally. And so that might be able to help with initial dynamics. That being said, I do not think that the new era certainly is not a monolith. And certainly not with the additions of two people they never met before in Savannah and Rizzo. And then the old era, also not a monolith. So I don't think it's necessarily that we're going to see some sort of like one era ganging up on the other. I don't think so. I can think maybe is that more of like a early merge thing, right? If it's like, hey, if there's enough old schoolers around, maybe they'll try to do it. But I agree that I think everyone has kind of expressed either through friend or foe or through directly telling me like this is not going to become a battle of the eras thing. We want to mix and match as much as we can, because I think as we're talking about with one particular castaway, Rob, there is this like thrumming theme, right, of let's try to make season 50 one of the best seasons ever. And I don't think any sort of pogonging of an entire either past five years or past 20 years of the show would indicate a great season. OK, so we're going to go through all eight people, talk about reactions to Mike's interviews, who were friends, who were foes. And then ultimately, we're going to take a look at the tribe as a whole and try to figure out where the alliances might come together. So, Mike, should we jump into first up here? Who you got? We've got Charlie Davis. And Charlie is a really interesting one, because if you've been listening to the previous two tribe previews, Charlie has often been brought up as sort of a perennial foe. It is this idea that, again, his reputation, reputations being the key word here, kind of precedes him. He is one of the standout, I would say, non-winners, especially from a runner-up perspective of the new era. And he promotes this sort of air of intelligence as well. And so, you know, Christian outlined it when he did his categorization of the cast. Charlie was in the category of like people who typically win the season. And I think everyone is clocking that. The good news is I think that Charlie, and we'll talk about this with Dee to a certain extent as well, end up with like one of the best possible configurations of people where I think if Charlie was in another tribe, he would be in much worse shape. I still don't know about his prospects long term, but I don't think he's as DOA as if you ask any of the other 18 people. Yeah, Charlie is in a bit of a tough spot because I do feel like that he came up quite a bit as somebody who people seem to be threatened by. I don't know if there were too many people who were like, oh, my God, I love Charlie. Charlie is my guy. I really am dying to work with Charlie. Maybe the closest is Colby, who is like, I love Taylor Swift. Mm hmm. Yeah. So I think that he's sort of seen as somebody who is I know Mike White has called him a few times the smartest guy in the room. And so I think that people are wary of Charlie. Yeah, be wary advantage when it comes to Charlie, because, yeah, I think it's just it's one of these ways he just naturally composes himself. You know, it's to a certain extent, like the way we feel about Christian when we talk with him about like just the way he is. He kind of oozes this this idea of social intelligence and his resume speaks for itself as well. in the incredibly turbid waters of season 46. He was one of the calmest forces until, you know, his ship, I suppose, his number one ally ends up turning on him. It is interesting that Charlie obviously is going to keep that in mind, but it's not necessarily keeping him away from trying to find a number one in season 50. We'll talk about that with Tiffany, who feels the exact opposite perspective. But, I mean, I think I agree with it. I think it's almost to a certain extent what we talked about with Joe, where like, I don't know if Charlie needs to change the playbook that much. Now, granted, a lot of this is going to be determined upon how people are viewing him. But all that irrespective, Charlie did have an incredibly solid game. I think part of it is, as he mentions in my interview, he did the work a little too late. That I think he was trying to, again, going back to reputation, kind of mitigate his own perception as this dangerous player, that there were so many preconceived notions by the time Final Tribal Council rolled around in 46, amidst a myriad of other factors that it was too little too late. Yeah, Charlie is such a conundrum because to the people in Survivor 46, I think he was largely underestimated. He was underestimated socially. I think he was underestimated strategically and certainly underestimated as an athletic specimen. And I think that us as viewers got to see the story of underdog Charlie, who's underestimated, who should have won, but the audience, but the people there didn't quite see it. But it was clear as day to the people who watched the show. I kind of the point where Q remember, Q told me in my interview, like, oh, if I've watched, you know, if I'd seen what Charlie was doing in the moment, I probably would have voted for him. And to the people who are there, I believe that there is an overcorrection where they are maybe more afraid of Charlie than they should be. Not to take anything away from Charlie, who's a really great player. But is Charlie the scariest player here out of 24 people who are showing up on the beach? I don't think so. But he's talked about like he is. I mean I think there's a lot of comparisons to be held going to the season between Charlie and yourself Rob I think there is this idea that if they go early we'll certainly talk about this later on I think Charlie is well protected but I think his name can certainly be thrown out just due to that perception of like listen I this guy's super down to earth I love talking with him he's funny but like there's some we can't let him get far there's something going on there that's how he gets Yeah, you know. Yeah. If we forget about him, he's going to make us look dumb. And people say, why didn't you get rid of Charles? But there are people who are threats who are not underestimated that are, I think, people who have more of a shot to win the game coming in than Charlie. But for whatever reason, his threat level is huge coming in. Yeah, that's what he's counting on as well. You know, D talks about this to really anyone who's considered this big threat. It's like, well, I'm not the only one. and that could help Charlie to a certain extent. You know, if they're able to win their way through the first few rounds and he's able to make some very key bonds, again, I think he is affable enough that maybe he'll be able to wear down that initial arm's length perception and people will be like, oh, you know what, like, yeah, he's a nice guy at the end of the day. I don't know what I was so worried about. Going down the list here quickly of friend or foe. So Chrissy had Charlie as a friend saying that they had met before in the past. Coach says Charlie is a friend of a friend, of course, when we have the Ben Katzman connection of it all. Says he actually wants to run the game alongside Charlie. So I think that might be one of the biggest, you know, people that are going to be in Charlie's corner. Dee says Charlie is a friend but knows that he can play the middle. This tribe especially, Rob, I think with friend or foe, has a lot of, like, friend in the beginning, foe towards the end. Jonathan outright marks Charlie a foe, says he's not a Swifty and feels like he don't have to think. Who's for Jonathan was a Swifty? I know. Listen, appearances can be deceiving, Rob. Camilla says that Charlie is a friend, wants to take advantage of, you know, she could say, hey, you saw what I did for Kyle in the final tribal council. Let me be that for you. be the Maria you wish to see in the world. And then Mike White said foe for Charlie because of that aforementioned smartest guy in the room vibe. So again, I think despite everyone's general conversations about Charlie, it's not a bad distribution right now for him. Mike White, the narrative king, being on the tribe with him, though, does not help. So overall, not a bad draw for Charlie, but you really ideally would not want to have Mike White there if you're Charlie talking about how wouldn't it be funny if Charlie is the smartest guy in the room and goes out early? I mean, it is interesting that on this tribe, we have what? Three, four second place finishers that could all have this narrative right of like, I was robbed my last time out, now I'm back for redemption. So this might be a battle of the narratives, let alone the narrators. Yeah, not to mention And also, you know, Camilla is there who could have been a winner. And then you do have a winner. Yeah, exactly. This is actually, again, maybe one of the reasons why they have the most winner equities, because they have the most success making it to a final tribal council. Yeah. All right, Mike, is there anything else you want to say about Charlie? No, shall we head into the proverbial crack den here and talk with Chrissy Hoffbeck? Talk me through your analogy here. what that was her analogy she said that this game is like crack and she said she wanted another hit of it okay yeah she didn't mention a crack den uh that's what i think what threw me off Jenna Lewis called the game gen pop uh i don't know anybody's described being on survivor as being in the crack den isn't that the sanctuary where good things happen some good things for you okay let's talk about Chrissy Hoffbeck here because Chrissy obviously eagerly anticipated return to Survivor, not only because of the way Heroes, Healers, Hustlers ended, but again, the massive life change that she had. She went through all of the incredibly harrowing surgeries that she went through in order to have a clean bill of health. Rob, I am shocked that I still made the loved one's visit after I made that reference to her tumor being the hidden immunity idol of tumors. Yeah, sometimes Mike is going to take a lot of swings, okay? Much like your beloved people sharing the Trader's Castle with you. I'm an ice skater, Rob. I'm truly skating on that thin ice, and sometimes I fall through the cracks. But luckily Chrissy got that crack. In the same way, Tony would spend half of the day coming up with ideas that wouldn't work. Then he would spend all night thinking of things that would work. So you really get there eventually, Mike. So Chrissy, yes, she had such an interesting story about her background, and she comes in with this other narrative about herself, about how she's really going to trust herself. Yeah, and I think as well, she is really heartened by not only, again, this sense of intuition or confirmation in her gut, but also the idea that she is playing with a very different set of players demographically. I mean, she spoke about, you know, the accusations of the lack of social game from her own cast, perhaps, as well as fans and heroes, dealers, hustlers. She accredited to, like, Generation Gap, you know. It was me betting a bunch of kids, and so she does feel more among her peers here. You know, those little Gen Z Dr. Mikes and Lauren Rimmer and Joe Mena. Yeah, exactly. Dr. Mike was walking around all talking about no cap. Make sure you wear cap when you engage in your certain activities. But yeah, I think that, I mean, if Chrissy at least is walking in with more confidence about the relationship she can make, that is, I guess, better than the way the game ended. Hey, how's the vibe, guys? Am I cooked? Chad, am I cooked? I've got Riz for days. You should be tested for Riz. Six, seven. Okay. That's your urology levels. I digress. I digress. Okay. So interesting. Chrissy is also, unlike Charlie, team anti number one here. She wants to have more like a hodgepodge group. She's looking to form a bit more of a brain trust. She is a numbers woman. Maybe she just wants more numbers, but very intriguing. I don't know. As she maybe alludes to with when she was making mention of Rizzo, like maybe she just doesn't want to necessarily put all of her trust in one. So, I mean, we saw what happened with Ben. So maybe she just wants to stay away from that and trust more in the group thing. OK, I mean, we'll see how it goes. I don't think it's necessarily bad to have a number one. You don't need a number one. I do think that you might want to have like several good relationships and spread the wealth a little bit more than being all in on. I think as a financial analyst or as what an actuary might tell you, a diverse portfolio is probably a better way to go. Well, let's run through some of the stocks that are hopefully going to be in Chrissy's wallet very soon. So Charlie says Chrissy is a friend, feels like they can connect right away. Then we have Coach who wants to work with Chrissy because he feels like despite the fact that he believes she's pregame, he feels like she is sweet. Dee does not want to work with Chrissy. She is a foe because she is too cutthroat. You'll see this theme with a few of these players. Jonathan says Chrissy is a friend. She's good in challenges, a good person to have on your side. Camilla says Chrissy is a foe. She was rooting for her during her season, but she is good in challenges, which could be threatening. Mike White says that Chrissy is a foe, doesn't want her, quote, running the show in a mother kind of way. It's up to the fans to determine who's running the show in a mother kind of way. Yeah, who's mother. and Tiffany says that Chrissy as a friend gives a sweet and nurturing vibe so I would say it's a healthy mix but I don't think that's necessarily going to put Chrissy on the chopping block early on I think especially as you mentioned given just the caliber of people that are around her and I think the fact that Chrissy is going to feel more comfortable starting this game and I think as well she knows how to fine tune the intensity I think obviously a lot of her emotions towards the end might have just been due to sort of the the Charlie Brown football Wile E. Coyote insert metaphor here of like I keep trying to get Ben, but then he keeps finding a way to save himself. I think that she is walking into the game in a really good headspace, knows that she just needs to start cool, kind of bank on this reputation of like, I played so long ago. These new era people, they know the game much better than I do. But as we know, she can list every season in chronological order, Rob. Yes, yes. Well done there by Chrissy. How about Chrissy and Charlie? What did they say about each other? I feel like that seems like that's a duo that would work. yeah I mean it's interesting because I would say and I talked about this in the both the Charlie preview and the Chrissy preview that like I feel like Charlie's pretty Ryan Ulrich coded as well maybe not as much as Rizzo in terms of like the optics department but Charlie wanted to work with Chrissy of course and Chrissy wanted to work with Charlie so I think this could be a very easy meetup between the two right if anybody could be like a new Maria type ally for Charlie. Like, I think it's Chrissy. And I think that like where Maria ends up being a woman scorned by Charlie in the end, I feel like that Chrissy has a more of like a, okay, practicality about her of like maybe could understand, like, look, I understand you needed to do what you needed to do. and like I think Chrissy could be the type of ally that if it was the same situation I think Chrissy would give her vote to Charlie at the end of the game. Well not to mention that Chrissy can sort of go to Charlie and be like I sort of directly experienced what you did now granted I don't know if she necessarily the game was as lost at final tribal council as Charlie's and she didn't suffer at least as much of a direct betrayal but I think that is an experience that they can bond over and it's something that Charlie can feel like okay given what she went through and given what she saw I went through, I don't know if she'll replicate the same actions. Yeah. I also going back to Charlie briefly, I did not mention probably the most interesting person on his tribe in their relationship, which is Tiffany. Of course, the two of them did play together. Charlie contributed to Tiffany's blind side. But Charlie actually has some, you know, we'll talk about this with the Tiffany perspective. He has some some high prospects for them working together. And Tiffany expressed that they could start off as friends, but she knows how he plays. So that'll be something interesting to monitor. And we know Chrissy is really looking to work more with the old school players, the players from the 30s specifically. How did she feel about Devins? She enjoyed Devins. I think what she has talked about in my interview and a bunch of other ones is that she feels like the people in the 30s, much like Survivor Winners proper, like that is the sweet spot because it's not the old, old school players where, again, there's this narrative voisted upon them of like, they don't know the game. They're all honor and loyalty. Nor is it the new era players, which have so much reputation based on, you know, recent precedent. It's more so, hey, look, I was on these shores like almost a decade ago. You know, I get along with pretty much everyone at this point. I don't know. How do you feel about that? Do you think that this group of Chrissy, Rick, the David versus Goliath people, Aubrey, are they in like a nice spot from a chronological perspective? I think that they're in a fine spot from a chronological perspective, but I just don't think that even within that group of five that there's that many people who are dying to work with each other. And I think that some of them have bigger targets on their back. So I don't think that that's necessarily going to be a voting block when we get into the first starts flying. Yeah. So Chrissy did say, I mentioned last time, that I also assigned a category to each person. about like who's the one person outside of their tribe that they would want to work with. I think it would be Angelina. Chrissy talks about very much connecting with Angelina, maybe speaking to that point about the 30s coalition. I said for Charlie also Angelina, but Charlie also falls into this very unique bucket for a lot of these new era players, which is the way he was kind of assessing these people was based in the like frozen in, you know, carbonite. I remember watching them on their season and I liked them. So I want to work with them, which could be a folly in multiple ways. Yeah. I mean, for the new era players, many of them have probably never met these people. No, definitely not. Because, yeah, a lot of these people do not go out to these events or, you know, shake hands or slide into the DMs of a lot of these players. Yeah, they may be watching the show, but they're not actively engaging with the contestants. So it's going to be a really interesting concept, especially with some of these like branded super duper fans of like actually getting to be on the beach. Again, something that you probably experienced to a certain extent of like, here are some people that you probably never thought you'd be interacting with in your life. And then at what point does sort of the reality set in and you realize like, oh, yeah, they're also a person and I'm playing with them and against them. That never kicked in for me before I was gone in Survivor All-Stars. And I could say that the people who I was with, that they did not necessarily appreciate that. I wanted to hear all about their seasons and their stories. Right. Wasn't this the Sue Hawk stuff? Yeah, I would be like, Sue, so what was this like? I mean, honestly, out of anybody, I don't think that she really minded. But, you know, you got to get to know the person more than the larger than life figure. And I think that the players who came back and didn't look at anybody, there were no people who were, okay, not that person. Oh, that person's like, you know, the attitude that Jenna Lewis came back into Survivor All-Stars with of, yeah, I don't care about who this person is or what they did. It's just another person to me. I do think that that person does have a little bit more of an edge than the person who comes back with, oh, my God, there's that person. I have such reverence. Well, speaking of that, let's talk about maybe the one person who would appreciate if you revere all of his previous accolades. Shall we get into my interview with Coach Wade? Yes. OK, let's talk about Coach. And I thought the coach had a really great interview with you, Mike. And I'm very much looking forward to digging into talking about Coach, who had a lot of self-awareness and came at this from a very interesting perspective. And I think that we are preparing to see a coach unlike any coach we've ever seen before. I mean, dare I make this comparison because it is the easiest one to do. But it reminds me a bit of like Tyson's headspace going into blood versus water where, you know, I don't know if the apple's falling too far from the tree. As coach says, you know, he still is going to do coach Chi upon request. He already has a nickname for Chi. But this does seem like somebody who has is more emotionally well-rounded. and yes I think a lot of it is maybe a bit of like okay he says this but is it actually going to happen but I don't know maybe I'm gullible and I fell for it but I think the way especially coach talked about like the three lessons he learned from each of his three seasons and how he's incorporating that into this game can you remind us the three lessons well so if I'm remembering correctly I know that heroes versus villains I just so I think token chains was the I don't always need to be the leader I'm more than happy to support others I think now speaks to his newfound career as a like music teacher right when it's all about like supporting the people around you building an ensemble heroes versus villains was i need to take myself less seriously uh obviously maybe hopefully no more you know emotional jags in the woods where he's told about all the things he can't do at tribal council and then the final lesson was uh that he just needs to own things you know he talked a lot about obviously yeah that loss in south pacific and him realizing definitely in retrospect, and this is an episode that will be talked about, I believe actually the time this is coming out, that episode will be airing tonight, the South Pacific finale, when it comes down to, as many fans have clocked as well, that coach did have a very impressive game, made it all the way to the end, was regarded as this leader, but then sort of had everything fall down upon him when he metaphorically fell on his sword by continuing to say, nope, I did play honorably, I did play loyally. his answer to that was very interesting where he talks about a conversation he had with Cochran about how everybody was feeling coach on the jury and then Ozzie came and he said that Ozzie had poisoned the jury against him and that was the opinion of Cochran who then told that to coach and he rather than owning everything and Cochran said no that wouldn't have done anything what if he would have just told Ozzy off at that final tribal council. And we certainly seen that before. And I don't know if it would have worked, but I think coach would have come away from that feeling really good. Yeah, I think that would have been cathartic for coach. And I think it also would have made him realize that he was essentially playing with blinders for his first three seasons. And he faced the ultimate consequences that last time out where he had the best chance of winning, but because he had set himself up essentially for failure and then dug into it at final tribal council. But yeah, the Aussie relationship is also going to be very interesting because now we've sort of heard both sides. Like, Coach admits that he was kind of low-key being a dick about Aussie, especially in the press the day after the South Pacific finale. Aussie's very much from the perspective of like, I hope Coach and I are good. You know, I hope time heals all wounds. And I wouldn't like coaches out here looking to get deep seated revenge against Ozzy. Yeah, it does feel like that largely the wars of the past have all largely been forgiven. And it doesn't seem like any of the old schoolers are coming in with big grudges towards the other old schoolers. It does seem like that you hear Colby talk about like, oh, I wish I want to work with Sari. And Coach is like, I love Ozzy and I want to work with Colby. And it does really feel like that by and large, the people who knew each other from before have a fondness for the people. Oh, I remember that person from 15 years ago. And the person I know is better than these strangers who are these complete unknowns that I've never met before. I think that's the big take is that it's the opposite of familiarity breeds contempt in that there is this idea of I played with you so I at least know you a little bit more than these people that even if I've watched on TV, I'm only getting sort of like a smidgen up. There's also this idea that a lot of these old schoolers have gone through a lot between seasons. Obviously, Coach opens our interview with, you know, an entire Shaquilla about how he's retired as a college coach, he's become a family man, he wants to slay breakfast, not dragons. He's called his own like Sister Mary Clarence from Cicerac and brought a music program up from the doldrums. So I can also imagine it's when you get the bigger picture of things and you look back and you're like, I shouldn't be mad at somebody for what they did on a reality show over a decade ago You tend to not sweat the small stuff as much Yeah So coach I think is in a really interesting place A lot of players want to come in and work with him by and large I feel like that. I don't know if you have stats on this in terms of the number of friend versus foe receiving, but I feel like that he had to have been in the top two or three people in terms of people whose players wanted to work with? Yeah, I would definitely say so. You know, now that we have all the friends and foes laid out, first off, you know, I'll do these tanks at the end, but there's a number of people that have been able to do a lot of friend or foe visualizations across Reddit, across Twitter. I know Joseph on Stephen Fishback's Discord, like, assigned a number to each one as well and sort of did the calculations that way, financial analyst style. And Coach is definitely up there. I would say across the board, the top three are. So Joseph did a like, you know, friend is a two. Trending friend is one. Neutral is zero. Trending foe is negative one. Flat out foe is negative two. And so just adding all those up across all 24 contestants. First place, quote unquote, with 31 is Jenna Lewis. Really? Good for Jenna Lewis. I think it's, again, it's that lot of old school reverence slash perhaps underestimating of like, she's from the first season. They were playing for one Budweiser. If you if you remember Jenna Lewis, she is from Survivor One. Do you think which is a lower number than two? Would Colby ever remind us about coach grabbing his balls the way coach did in my interview? No, I don't think so. But Colby is ready to grab this game by the balls. Second place is Ozzie with 29, but very close behind him is Coach with 28. So Coach is on the podium. And, yeah, I would say by and large, I think the largest general positive perception is Coach. And this is where it's going to get really intriguing, Rob, because, again, Coach talks about how he wants to play as this evolution of itself. A snake must shed its own skin is one of the proverbs that he gave to me. but what happens if the majority of people you're playing with are like i love that old skin you know like i think that coach is going to be able to maybe immerse himself in two different worlds but it must be so interesting to come into a game where he's like i'm a different person now i'm not that big character and then all these people are like i loved how big of a character you were you know i think that's okay and i think that with a lot of these survivor players who with time they know who they are in the real world but for many of them also much like Indiana Jones picking up the fedora coach knows who he is on the beaches of survivor and I think he is willing to don that persona but I think that maybe once upon a time that the dragon slayer maybe he showed up in the real world where it didn't necessarily belong and didn't necessarily work but i think that he's comfortable in that dad mentor teacher role that he gets to play outside of the game but is also comfortable to wear the the coach the dragon player the jacket and put it back on in this environment. And I think having that healthy balance is probably a very good thing for him. I also think that it's a fun full circle moment where I think people are treating Coach the way he wants to be treated in Token Sheens and Heroes vs. Villains. I think people are kind of taking him seriously. Seriously in kind of a joking way, right? Where they're like, I want to get a nickname. You know, Charlie calls him a crazy fun uncle. Like, I think that Coach... Uncle Coach! Make it happen, Juwan. I think that, honestly, Coach is, like, at his most accepted from this group because of the reputation he's accumulated. It's been so interesting, Rob. You know, you and I have been in these survivor streets for a while. To think about, like, back in Token Sheens, like, people despise Coach. There's a reason why he was on the Villains Tribe, to his chagrin. But now I think he has become such, like, a big legacy-filled character that the idea of getting to work with him has really endeared himself to so many people. And I really think that also Coach is going to be able to, again, like play that part, but I think also make really good one on one relationships, too. Like, I think the fact that his job is about negotiating, granted, there are massive age differences. But I think being able to sort of work with individual personalities as part of a larger collective is something that directly applies to the game of Survivor. And I think that in the original version of Coach, where he was showing up with people that were his peers, calling himself Coach and telling them, hey, I am the coach. I am the leader, sort of asserting authority here that there was a question of who is this jackass? where especially for people who grew up watching Survivor, that he has an authority about him that is unimpunable. Of course, he's like, I look to him. Yes, tell me what to do, coach. Like, share your wisdom with me, where the people who were looking at him sideways with the stink eye didn't want to hear his wisdom. The people who are here now, whether they're his peers from back in the day or people who grew up watching him, that they're hanging on his every word. Yeah, I mean, again, like you said, the people that he would have the hardest time with on paper would be these people that he's played with. But Colby says that the next great bromance could start between them. Ozzy's like, I'm willing to let bygones be bygones. Sari is even like, I want to work with Coach. Coach himself says he wants to throw himself at the feet of Sari when he gets the chance to do it. So I cannot speak highly enough about at least the perspective that Coach is walking into the game. But now it's tough because due to past precedent, we don't know if that perspective is going to disappear. But if his claims that this is the first season in which he's walking in thinking he can truly win are valid, I think it's a really good headspace to be in going into his fourth timeout. And Coach does a really good job of balancing, you know, talking about himself and, you know, giving him talking about his own accolades and his accomplishments. But he also is able to do it with humility also. And maybe not always that was the case for him, but he is that he talks up a lot of people, too. So, yeah, he does a really good job of managing the two. Yeah, and it's interesting because, again, that's one of the first things he talked about with me. And I think it comes from this larger life perspective of becoming a father as he realized, I don't need to make any more hit motion pictures. I don't need to write any more ballets. I can just be the best person I am to these others who need me in that moment. And so, again, I still think that we are going to be getting some fun moments from Coach. I mean, hell, he opened up the Survivor 50 trailer with a quote from frickin' Magellan. But I do think that we are maybe in store for a down-to-earth Dragon Slayer, which is something I would not believe. And, Rob, it probably brings you no surprise, considering all the talking up I've been doing, that astoundingly, Coach Ben Wade is my winner pick. Okay. All right. It's not a bad pick. I think that, again, we'll talk more about it. I think there are a lot of options coming from this tribe. And granted, again, these friend or foe results, we'll see how much they bear out. But if we're taking the barometer of how they're feeling about this person, I can distill a little bit as to what people are thinking about Coach through the quality of their responses and maybe having that play out in the game in general. Whereas, again, Jenna, it might be a little bit more like you have an image of her And then once you actually talk with her, you realize she's a little more gung-ho, a little more cutthroat than you realize. Ozzy, I think, could be in a similar boat as compared to Coach. But just the way everyone was talking about Coach from every era truly, like, just absolutely took me by surprise. And so I almost had no choice. I had to be like, listen, if the vibes are good on Coach, then so are mine. Okay, well, let's talk about some of those vibes about Coach. And let's take a look at how people are feeling about him. Yeah, I mean, let's look at this, right? All positive, one mix. And even then was a little tongue in cheek. So I mentioned before, Charlie said Coach is a friend. He's a crazy, awesome uncle. They also, remember, have the Ben Katzman connection. Chrissy says that Coach is a friend. Dee says Coach is a friend. They also met before being on Ben Katzman's album. She does warn that, like, he might become more of a foe, But it's less so to do with like, I want to cut him and more so to he might be angry if I make fun of him too much. Jonathan says that Coach is a friend, though he will not call him Mr. Coach, sadly enough. And Camilla. Mr. Coach is redundant. You don't need to be Mr. Coach. They just call him Coach. Camilla, obviously, again, if we go back to this idea of I don't want to call it fan worship, But like meeting your heroes or your villains, Camilla lit up like the fire she was unable to create in a timely manner. When I talked about Coach, she he is her favorite player of all time. She is there for the coach. She she is there for the shenanigans. Mike White said it was the most mixed on coach said that he had a good vibe, but she he's just not a fan of the to the end brother like that sort of mentality. So, again, maybe a little bit of just a generic painting of who Coach is. And then Tiffany said that Coach is a friend, too, maybe for the more literal cosmetic reason of he had one of his big toenails painted. She likes that. She thinks that's pretty artsy. Yeah. Savannah did as well. I did not realize that. Listen, they say in the pregame that your toenail polish can give a lot away. I did not realize that would translate to Coach here. Yeah, he's peacocking. Okay. All right. Mike, anything else you want to say about Coach? I would recommend people check out the interview for themselves because it is true. I'm sure they do. In all of its own form. I hope so. I hope so. Because I had a really fun time getting to chat with him as well. Okay. Mike, after coach, who came next? After C comes D. Literally, let's talk about D. Valladares. Let's talk about this tribe's winner. And the winner arguably coming in with the biggest reputation. I mean, what do you think, Rob? Is D. D. O. A. I don't think so I think that if any of the winners are able to really win this I think that Dee is the person that I would pick I'm glad I watched the video of Dee as opposed to just listen to the audio because there were some people I listened to the podcast version and others I watched the video for and I'm glad I watched the video because I forgot how much Dee lights up in her face I feel like that she is so expressive and I think it really does speak to how well she's able to play the social game. I think that she has a smile that's in her face is like a it's electric. I think you really you it's very warm and inviting. And I think that she really was not exaggerating when she talks about how she has an ability to make you feel like you're the most special player in the game. And so I think that Dee has a very, very underrated social game, and I think that she can use that to great effect. I think that she is threatening, certainly, in terms of her resume, but I do think that she has an ability to be able to overcome that, whereas I think other people with threatening resumes may not be able to overcome that. Yeah, I mean, Dee, I think, is incredibly sincere in the way that she approaches people, which can be incredibly dangerous when she is lying straight to your face. But I think there's a reason why so many people trusted in her towards the end, how she was able to maintain the farcical like two number one scenario between Julie and Austin is because if she sits you down and is like, no, but you're really my number one. you were able to believe her. And the fact that she never was like truly in danger until that final five vote says a lot. I mean, yeah, when we talk about the perception of Dee, I mean, when we talk about the three winners going back to the friend or foe of it all, Savannah is obviously, you know, the least regarded winner, just because, again, there's a lot of people threatened by just the fact that she might be a winner and the mystery odds of what she might be. Kyle is definitely more highly regarded because I think it's this idea that, as you mentioned, D is more dangerous. I think the stuff that D showcased in Survivor 45, especially with these one-on-one dynamics, are probably more dangerous than Kyle, who's like, yeah, I was able to do these things, but it was alongside Camilla, and I did so with a bit of a broken heart to do so. That said, as we'll get into the friend or foe in a little bit, I do think she has one of the better starting tribes here. It should also be mentioned, I don't know how much physicality is incredibly valued in these returning player seasons, but she is one of the strongest women that we have in this cast. And so I think especially if this group, as we'll talk about with Jonathan, is trying to value strength over a lot of other pieces of criteria, it could be a reason to keep her around. I found her to be very observant and she brought up things that were a lot of the way people carried themselves were things she seemed to notice about things she liked or didn't like about people. And I feel like that as a player, I think that that is just a really interesting way to hear how she thinks about the game and how she's looking at these other people. And I do think that she is a little bit more vibes than resume in terms of how she's looking at making allies. Yeah, I mean, I think, again, she is sort of in the category of like beggars can't be choosers of like, I'm looking for anyone to want to work with me. So it makes sense that she's more so not looking at past precedent and more so, She's also more of a recent fan of Survivor as well, so she's not going to be like, I remember when I was seven years old growing up with Colby, and more so looking at, like, Colby's sitting in the back all the time. You're isolating yourself. Do I want to work with that? I think Charlie put Dee's superpower really well in that, like, she has this ability out of the Boston Rob rulebook of, like, being able to convince you that her idea was your idea. that, oh, I want to get on board with this because obviously this is something that I came up with when really, Inception style, it was something that she was encouraging you to do. She's able to get people to go along to get along. Now, the question is how much people do want to get along with her. I think she is somebody that, depending on, again, the criteria that people might be using, if they go to Tribal early and they have Jonathan on their side, I could see a world where they're like, we've got enough strength. We need to nip D in the bud right now before, as she mentioned, she gets into that sweet spot. She gets enough time to worm her way into your heart. Now, can she win over Jonathan? Because I believe that Jonathan was somebody who was not on board with her. I feel like she could. Yeah, let's run down the options here. So Charlie does say Dee is a friend. He says that actually she is one of the people he is closest with, which is also interesting when we talk about Dee with Charlie. That's another connection that we might be able to play. And Dee with the on-fire alumni. Which is interesting, though, because Charlie did not like Devin. So and D also said, right, that Devin's did not leave a letter of succession. You got to leave when you know, listen, when somebody's going to see you, you got to leave a note in the drawer. You got to do that. Exactly. For the next of Kin here, the next of Mike Kin. Chrissy said that D is a foe, basically going full Jenna Lewis, just wants to get rid of the fact that she is a winner. Coach says that D is a friend. Cool vibe. he doesn't care about working with the winners, considering that he did it in the past on Heroes vs. Villains. As we mentioned, Jonathan said Dee is a foe. She is too dangerous. Camilla says Dee is a friend. Basically, again, not necessarily banking on past reputation, but more so like, and we'll talk about this with Camilla, the way she did it of like, well, you were really loyal to your people until the end. Do you want to just run that playbook back, Dee? Because I will totally work with you if that's the case. Mike says Dee is a foe. Quote, you've had your fun. you can go and Tiffany is mixed on D. It's this idea that as we'll get into, Tiffany is I think one of the more socially connected people among the new era cast. And she's basically like, I know you, I like you, but do I want to let you anywhere near the end? Probably not. I can't let my guard down around you. Okay. I feel pretty decently, no pun intended about how her chances are going into this. I think on paper coming in, you worried a little bit more about her as a winner. I just think she's set up well and I think can overcome some of the early adversity she might face. Yeah, I mean, I think we'll get into it. She has a couple of connections that I think could keep her safe early on. You talked about this with the Kyle of it all. I do think it's going to be a high mountain to climb to have any of the winners be able to repeat their success here. I think especially with D, I do think there's going to be a point when they're like, it is like final eight, final seven. We're not letting D get to the final three again. I just think it's wild. Here's D who won and compare her to somebody like Genevieve, who's here by herself. Nobody else from her season didn't win, didn't win as many immunity challenges as D, who I believe won three in her season. Considered to be the most dominant winner of the new era. And I think that people are much more afraid of a player profile like a Genevieve, like a Charlie than they are of a D. Because I think that the warmth that D is able to bring to the overall package of her as a player is just so incredible. that I think that people trust Adi more than some of the players who are thought of just as, oh, they're that cutthroat analysts that are going to just make the best game decision. Well, I think what also probably helps are honestly the connections she's made. Something that definitely, again, the tough thing about Genevieve is that she has this reputation and she hasn't necessarily made these big online or in-person connections with a lot of the new era people that are playing. Dee has. We see Dee around all the time at all of these events, hanging out with various people from these casts. I think it's like Tiffany's spouses where, like, she is this more familiar personality. And so I think it's a little less scary, especially for people in the new era, because it's more of a peer and less of a figure. All right. Mike, anything else on Dee? No, I don't believe so. Actually, I will say, perfect timing on her part to say that Bad Bunny was her celebrity loved one. Maybe she manifested the halftime show. Yes. OK. Well done by D. OK. Yeah. And I love that Sandra cameo with she was hiding in the bush right when they came out to go hide around Bad Bunny. I spent a lot of time with Sandra this weekend. I was going to say, how was it? I it was so they had the of course, for people who know about the hidden immunity. Colby, what's going on with the idol search? All right, Mike. So you know that they've got a season 50 Survivor Challenge, Find the Idol, and you could win a prize. And so I was – I'm going to go back to being me. So I was at the Survivor 50 event, and we were in North Carolina, and it was me and Jesse and Sandra. And then Johnny Fairplay was around, but he was mostly outside selling his merch out of a shopping cart. And so I spent a lot of time with Sandra and Jesse over the weekend, and it was a delight. I mean, I always enjoy getting to spend time with the queen, and she was in rare form. Sandra's so good with the fans. Not every single person that you might think of as a survivor legend is going to be as gracious with the fans and spend time and taking pictures and signing everything. Sandra is just as good as it gets. Yeah, I mean, I'll tease something at the end of this podcast, but I've had the opportunity to talk with Sandra in a more long-term way recently. And, like, it just cannot be stated enough how much she loves Survivor. Like, and you would think sometimes the people who have won twice, you know, didn't have some great showings last time that she would become, like, disillusioned with the show. But she is so incredibly passionate about it. Like, this is something that obviously changed her life. And I would say, you know, of some of the more Mount Rushmore figures, she is like one of the most knowledgeable in terms of like watching all the new era seasons, certainly having some opinions on them if you follow her on chat BCC. And that's, I think, really cool to know, especially from a new era castaway perspective, too. She's gracious and not just to the show and to the producers, but to everybody who cares about the show. She really is, you know, just so humble. I don't want to say she's humble. She doesn't think that she's better than anybody who comes out to come and see the Survivor event and doesn't carry herself as being better than anybody, even though a big part of her identity is being the queen of Survivor. That's the thing. She's the people's queen. Exactly. Even though she has, you know, the queen stays queen and all these like I can get loud to what the F moments. Like she's also just a very down to earth person. Yeah. To speak with. Like, you don't feel like you're necessarily talking to a character when you're talking to Sandra. So sorry for that diatribe about a person. No, I really enjoyed my time with Sandra. Sandra's lovely. Okay. Mike, who's up next? All right, let's talk about Jonathan Young here. We go from a challenge beast to fellow challenge beast here. Let's get into my interview with Jonathan because Jonathan is someone that obviously a lot of people saw with a very similar perspective. we are using him in the pre-merge and then we're getting rid of him in the post-merge but Jonathan Young has studied at the feet of one Boston Rob Mariano not unlike yourself when it came to traders and he's trying to figure out some ways to... Hopefully not like myself when it came to traders. Oh yeah Jonathan if there's a conga line watch out but I think that he is Couldn't reach his shoulders if I was in a conga line with Jonathan Yeah maybe that's the reason he wouldn't avoid the conga line the conga line would avoid him. Hard for him to hide anywhere also well that's so that's interesting what he's putting out to me which is like despite his size he doesn't feel he feels like he can hide because yes what he's known for is less threatening than a lot of other people you know he is surrounded by yes he obviously is a was a challenge standout in his season Ozzy's won five five immunity challenges of the season and then some Colby's won five immunity challenges in a season Rick Devins won four Joe won four and so So I think that almost coach-esque, I think Jonathan's really trying to steer into the curve a bit in terms of like all catch fish, all win challenges for you. And they don't necessarily realize that he has a better head for the game this time around than in 42. Yeah, I loved hearing about the letter that he got from Boston Rob, where Boston Rob said, hey, Jonathan, smile more. Hey, you know what, Boston Rob, where I come from, don't tell a man he needs to smile more, okay? the construction worker in boston rob right he's like uh that's where the cat collar is pretty face so the three pieces of advice yeah let's talk about the boston rob letter here uh no it was good advice for uh rob and of course he has good advice for jonathan because he spent time with jonathan around the game and if jonathan can be fun and be sort of a little bit more gregarious and not be seen as a little cranky or sullen. I think that that is very good. He's a humble guy. He's a polite guy. We know this about him. I do think that he has a big heart and he does want to try to do the right thing. And so people, I think if he can be a little bit more warm and bring that to him and be seen as, sure, he's a big guy, but he's got a big heart too. I think that people will warm to him and they don't think he's sneaky. And so he doesn't have that same sort of brush that Charlie gets painted with of that. We don't need to necessarily watch out for him. And it does seem like that he has an express pass to the merge. Yeah, I'm hopefully he'll use that express pass. I'm like John and Jessica from Amazing Race 42. Yeah, I do. I agree with that. I think that Jonathan is one of the more like lock safe people, unless we get to like, I don't know what they merge at like 14 or 13. It's at like the final 15. And they're like, all right, let's just get – we don't need to worry about winning challenges anymore. Let's get rid of this guy before the merge even starts. Because the most danger I think Jonathan could face in this game is like if he starts winning the first couple of individual challenges. And people are like, okay, we're going to nip this thing in the bud. But I think, again, depending on the people that are left, they may not necessarily care if Jonathan is winning immunity all the time. Also, he didn't even win any immunity challenges, right? He won two. He won, but one of them was like a weird one. It was like the balance, like doghouse in the water. And it was like an incredibly windy day. Yeah, he won one in 30 seconds. And then he won the other one against Lindsay when it was just the two of them against each other in the do or die challenge. Yeah. OK, so and the do or die is kind of a weird one where people didn't want to play. If you didn't play, you didn't want to. So not to say that Jonathan is any slouch in the challenges, but I do feel like that the individual challenges, challenges especially like these endurance challenges are not necessarily always going to be that he's the ideal body type to win those so speaking like if they do get a grip i'm not liking jonathan in some of these challenges he actually beat did lindsey in get a grip so but i think if he's up against christian look out right it's charlie who has like the body type who is more likely to win some of those endurance type challenges. Actually, I mixed it up. Charlie won Get a Grip, the pull challenge. I was thinking of Uncomfortably Numb, which is the holding the handles above your head. But yeah, I agree. Get a Grip would not be Jonathan's challenge whatsoever. But I like how Jonathan has approached season 50 where he's listened to other people like Boston Robb, like Matt Van Wagnon, who give him the same sort of advice. And so I think he also took this opportunity very seriously in terms of his preparation to come back and wanting to learn. I do think he loves the game. So we'll see how he's going to approach things. I think that he from his interview, we know he's going to look at this from a much more old school, not the type of game that Mike White might want to see. Loyalty. He wants to go with the people who are straight and narrow. And so to that earlier point about how the arrow lines are going to bleed probably almost immediately. I think Jonathan is looking for, I mean, he said that what Miss Stephanie was going to be his number one ally if he can find her because she's the ultimate form of straight and narrow because he says she can't lie. You know, even if she tries to twist the road, it's going to end up being a straight through no matter what. So Jonathan is looking old era coded. Definitely so. And I think as well, you have a lot of people that are interested in Jonathan too, because the perception of him is that he is this big honesty and loyalty guy. And I think actually Charlie brings up a good point that I think there is masking a little bit of trickiness. I mean, Jonathan was one of the people, at least he says that he was brought in on this whole Omer vote. You know, he was part of this talk group that was sort of blindsiding people left and right in 42. So it's not necessarily like, you know, his job is beach. I mean, it quite literally is, but like, but he's only good at two things and that he's just so deficient in other parts. I do think that the biggest fault of Jonathan is as you mentioned more of the social aspect He was definitely irascible due to the elements in 42 But as you mentioned I think he done a better job of at least preparing himself for that And at least if he's getting more hangry, maybe he has more of a patience to be like, let me stop myself before I get into an argument with anybody. Well, he also changed his approach to how he was going to eat before the game. This is something I've talked about many times with Jeremy Collins, who's also an athlete, and that he felt like that he always needed to shrink his stomach before he went out there, where I've been much more as somebody who's not an elite athlete in like put the weight on. You're going to want to have the reserves. But if you're somebody who just has like an incredibly fast metabolism, you do want to get ready to have less sustenance. It sounds like that that's what he did. Mike, I know he is Jonathan Young. I would have to say I do not have a good read on the age of Mr. Jonathan. I feel like he could be anywhere from 27 to 37. Yeah. Why don't you wager a guess here officially and we'll see how I'll go right in the middle. I'll say he's 32. Right on the money, sir. You aim for the average and you hit it. Yeah. Above average guess. Okay. Yeah. But I agree that, yeah, he definitely, I think it's also his size as well. He doesn't necessarily come across as one of the quote unquote younger castaways. so again I think that's going to maybe endear himself to some of the older, the later days. Millennial Jonathan. Yeah who would have thought well let's talk about some of the people that will hopefully be in Jonathan's survivor generation here. So Charlie does say that Jonathan is a foe and he pretty much clocks Jonathan's assessment of him which is that he feels he'll be immediately in with the old schoolers and he doesn't want to work with any new era strategists but he does clock that as I mentioned before He's trickier than people give him credit for. Chrissy says, of course, Jonathan is a friend, but he's got to go at some point. Coach says Jonathan is a friend, says he has an old school soul, especially for a 32 year old. Dee says Jonathan is a friend specifically because he is loyal and also a very good meat shield for her. Camilla says Jonathan is a friend, then a foe, chiefly because they really don't have anything in common, even though Camilla has now learned how to bench. and Mike White says that Jonathan is a friend purely as an asset, wants to just use him on his tribe. And Tiffany says that Jonathan is a friend, seems like a rational player. So I think that the biggest dangers for Jonathan is going to emerge with a couple of those assessments of like, I think that as we'll get into the dynamics, he is going to be one of the more locked in safe members, one of the key arbiters of these decisions. But once the game turns individual, that might all get completely turned around. Yeah, so Jonathan is set up pretty well here to start off the game, and then we're going to see if he can make those adjustments as we get into the later stages of the game. Yeah, so we shall see. Maybe, you know, if he goes to the sanctuary and they get the loved one's letters from home, does he get another letter from Boston Robb or does he just reseal the one from Boston Robb and he reads it again? Yeah, I like Boston Robb said, hey, don't open this letter until you're on the plane. yeah exactly not to get in your head too much yeah but yeah kind of like when marty left the note for uh doc like uh don't open this until 1985 he's still alive he's in the old west uh i mean it's interesting though because i would imagine like a little bit of a doc and marty are they it looks boston rob has his workshop where he's working on all these different things has all these tools jonathan young man from another generation who comes over to see what rob is working on hey um hey mr rob uh can i see your amplifier today don't touch anything wow that's totally far out uh do you think that boston like what if the libyans come looking for me you didn't see i was gonna say are the libyans russell hans was him getting gunned down at the twin pines of all the the with the plutonium like the example of coach turning on him i think that Russell might be biffing this story, but we're losing the plot. No, I mean, I think we're gaining a plot perhaps for another film here, another off-season project. But yeah, Jonathan, just to remind people what the advice was, think number one, smile more, perhaps controversially. Number two, look at the game through your opponent's eyes. This is something I know Boston Rob gives out to a lot of people. Then number three, you can control what you can control. Don't worry about the rest. And so that's the thing as well is that with Boston Rob and Batman Wagnon, this is not like okay because you're you this is what you have to do this is not like specific one-on-one mentoring it's more so like here are general qualities that anyone can really use in the game which i think is the most applicable i'm wondering though rob how close were these people sitting on the plane like do you think someone was able to clock oh i think i saw like a handwritten letter from boston rob that jonathan was opening and reading on fiji airways yeah but the letter say smile more like it's not necessarily if somebody intercepted that letter i don't think this is like we found the smoking gun it's not like that boston rob said hey i told colby that you're good don't worry about anything fine colby tell him i sent you i mean i don't know how colby feels about hammering letters on survivor anymore i think by that in the past okay as you recall I've got Runt wrote a letter. You might know there was a season where there was a guy named JT. He wrote a letter. All right, well, let's move on from JY here, Rob, to Camilla, KK. Let's do this. Mike, let's talk about your beloved new era. I've been waiting to say that to you. My natural transition point. almost every and I was like but why is it their beloved new era? I'm trying to hopefully manifest it for them you know like don't crap on your own era you play with the era you came in with. I was waiting to say that to you let's talk about your beloved new era and then also that's the emotional cocktail of this preseason interview series. Yes and then I was mad at myself because I was also dying to say to you in the last tribe preview that I wanted to come on the podcast and pound the table for Kyle because Kyle was was pounding the table away all interview long. Well, listen, he's popping, right? Not only in the microphone, but in the interview. He was the one person going back to the old first one out days that we did to bring back. All right. Hands off the table. To be fair. I told them all that. So Kyle, maybe speaking to Kyle was very demonstrative of all of his points. Maybe he's better as a judge because he had, you know, resting gavel hand. Yes. OK. All right. So let's talk about Camilla. And I will say and I was hard on Camilla in our overall first preview and I called her a big liar. But in fairness, she is a big liar and she loves to lie. And so that that was listen, I was I was a little hard on because I do think that maybe the more charitable way to look at it was that she said that when when she found out about season 50, if she would have known Kyle was going to be on it, she would have said no. And perhaps when they first called her and said, hey, do you want to be on season 50? Perhaps at that time she did not know Kyle was going to be on. I'm sure very soon after they asked her to be on, she then found out Kyle was going to be on and still went. Yeah, I don't know if it would be so far as for her to say, no, I'm not going to do it because it's been 10 seasons without a returning season. and you really want to bank on another one coming soon. But I understand a lot of her comments about this because I do think of the three people of season 48, Camilla is in the most danger early on in this game. Really? I think so because I think Joe, as we spoke about, has the reputation of, yes, was a big endgame player, but his weakness was that he cared too much and that he put up the blinders of honesty and loyalty, as Coach would say. Kyle, yes, has won the game, but I think people look upon him favorably as a possible shield, just as winners in general. Camilla has now coupled this idea of she's dangerous. As he said, she's a good liar. Star says in the after show, Camilla would have won if she made it to the end. And then also there is this idea of we cannot let her get back to Kyle. That if we let her get far enough and her and Kyle meet up, we're going to get duped once again. I think a lot of that has her in danger early on. I could see that. She benefits here from being on a tribe with Jonathan and Dee and a couple others who can help win some challenges. Charlie's no slouch. You have Christy here also. So I think that she may not need to be scrambling as much. I forgot how much I enjoy listening to Camilla. She's always very fun and funny. I think that's the thing is that despite maybe the liar label you've assigned like she has a lot of candor I think in the way that she speaks yes which I enjoy hearing and which I always did appreciate about her in season 48 and I do feel like that in a very schmoopy season which was survivor 48 she was the one person in the confessionals with the exception of talking about Kyle which like what what are we doing why are we doing this and so I do think that that was cathartic for me as a viewer to hear her viewpoint on a lot of things but i just think that as mike white described her as that she has the appearance of a child who is waiting for their parents to come pick them up at the end of the school day at detention yeah at detention i wonder if that her the way that she just appears as like are we really worried about camilla that the specter of camilla might be large but then when you're confronted with the actual appearance of Camilla, are you as worried about her when Dee is on the tribe, when Charlie is on the tribe, when Chrissy is on the tribe, and people who you just might be a little bit more threatened of who's going to really make a run, whereas, like, are we going to, are we that worried about Camilla today? I could see that to a certain extent. We do need to remember that season 50 started filming two weeks after season 48 filmed, so if you're saying, like, We don't need to be worried about Camilla making a run to the end. They just saw her make a very deep run to the end. With Kyle. What if Kyle goes home? What if Kyle goes out? Like, I think if Kyle goes out, that is her best case scenario. I do think that there could be a scenario where we like we saw Amber go out early on Winners at War, where it was like, hey, Boston Rob's out there. So we go to tribal council. Let's vote at Amber. That certainly could be her fate in this game. But I could see a world, especially if Kyle goes out where nobody worries about Camilla. I could definitely see that because, again, it's the half measures we consistently see in Survivor. If you see a duo, you vote out one of them, you vote out the other person in succession because now they're weakened. Right. But the irony is Camilla is almost strengthened. She says that Kyle's what an anchor around her leg at this point, just the idea of the two of them linking up together. So Dee sort of spoke about this with Emily a little bit. And I think what she's kind of hoping for is that, like, the others take care of her work for her and vote off Kyle. And what's also interesting as well is, like, her relationship with Joe, because something that was not really reported either by her or the show was how close they were. But Camilla does rightfully clock, like, Joe may be feeling a certain way about me based on what he just saw. Yeah, Mike, you brought up Emily, and you lost me for a minute because I only call her Flippin'. I didn't know who you were referring to when you mentioned Emily. I do know now. Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah, that was wild. That was wild. I was really, like, buying into Jonathan. And then you asked him about Emily, and there was, like, a good 90 seconds where he was struggling to remember who that was. I mean, to be fair, these people were getting up incredibly early. I mean, that's why I sort of excused Q for the whole Rob and Amanda, Tony Tyson thing. Like, these people have been up since, like, 3 in the morning. It's like nominal aphasia makes sense. But, yeah, that was the most wild thing. I don't know if Jonathan was trying to compensate by saying I call her flippin', but that made it sound even more outrageous. But even, like, you know, if you woke me up in the Trader's Castle at 3.30 in the morning and you asked me a question about Tara, I think I'd be like, who? What? Oh, Lipinski? Oh, okay, that's different. yeah uh so we'll see if camilla will be flipping on her allies anytime soon i mean that's also interesting from camilla's perspective and granted a little this might be trying to save face but she's going to at least market herself as quote the true honesty and loyalty player in season 48 not sure if we're buying that and i don't think so either camilla is an incredible liar she loves she loves lying it comes so naturally to her but maybe she might be a little bit that she has a belief that she can lie about things that other people are like this is obviously a lie now what could actually help her is that she does plan to try to find like a true polar opposite person to work alongside she flags colby as one example and that is i think a pitch that could work if she's trying to make a one-on-one relationship of like look at what kyle and I were able to do behind the scenes we could do the same thing. Now Camilla if you remember you and Kyle were both on season 48 and you worked together very well and that's the kind of relationship that we could create. I mean Camilla would lap this up too. I think she is one of the people alongside Rizzo that are the most like I cannot believe I get to be alongside these people. Yeah and I think that Camilla Camilla has also, it's interesting because we talked about her season. I talked about this in the interview, right? That's like, oh man, they wasted Camilla on this season in terms of her gameplay style. But she's actually really grateful for playing on 48 because it taught her patience. I think it's an incredibly valuable asset to have where I think we talk about some of these old school players and it's like, they've got to learn how to run a bit faster on the treadmill because the pace is getting picked up. For Camilla, it was more so like, no, I know how to play this game super slow. So I know when I need to take the shots that I have to. I don't need to necessarily, especially based on my perception, go taking heads out, blam, blam, blam under the bus. I can wait a little bit for the next one to arrive. OK. All right. Should we look at how the other people are viewing Camilla? Let's do that, because, again, as we talk about her reputation proceeding here, it's actually not that bad of a layout for Camilla. Charlie said Camilla is mixed. He feels that she's tricky and he's threatened by her ability to connect with people so quickly. He uses that example right of like, oh, no, Kyle and I can only talk for like 45 seconds a day. Could be something that's used against her. Chrissy says Camilla is a friend. She wants to see her shine in the spotlight. Coach said Camilla is a friend. Due in part, perhaps, to the fact that Camilla was bringing up his name in every interview about why Coach should have come back. Really playing the long game there. Dee said Camilla is a friend. He loved her supporting Kyle on the jury. So again, maybe Camilla's pitch of like, no, remember what I was able to do for Kyle might not necessarily ring on deaf ears. The biggest opposition Camilla has is from Jonathan. It says that she is a foe, basically feels like she is very sneaky, sneaky, sneaky. He does not want that. However, I feel like if you're going to have one person against you in the group, I don't know if Jonathan is going to have that much sway in terms of like the early tribal vote out consensus. Like, I think I think he's more of a more of a presence. He's more of a go along to get along. I don't see Jonathan dictating who goes home, especially in the pre-marriage. and then just running down the last couple might said camilla friend as you mentioned the vibe of the breakfast club style girl who's waiting for her parents after detention but he did like her on her season and then tiffany said camilla is a friend until proven foe has less to do with her and more so about like i'm not letting my guard down until i get to know you more okay there you go all right rob shall we get into it let's get into wave the fans yes let's get into my My beloved Mike White. Okay, so let me bring something up to start here. Because, and I'm so sad that this was not recorded, but, you know, when the interview ends, I turn off the recording devices, and then, you know, I chit-chat with them a little bit as I walk them back to their respective areas. And I did tell each of these people, you know, I'm recording for Parade as well as Rob has a podcast. And so Mike White knew that this was for RHAP, and I told him to send him your best. you, you asked me to do this. And he clarified something for me. Now he could be straight up camillinating me. And I may not realize it. Mike White says in this moment, that the entire act or emotion that he put on in your classic exit interview the day after David versus Goliath was a bit. Oh, he said that he's like, I knew Rob could play ball. I know he's very sarcastic, you know that he's willing to follow that type of person depending on the tone they're bringing to the interview so i was just joking he's great i hope he's doing well yes well that and i appreciate that i'm sure that there was a like germ of truth uh in you know any good roast is based in truth and i think that that's why it's funny because that it does come from a place of truth and i appreciate mike feeling like i could handle whatever he was going to throw at me it was certainly a highlight for many many years on the podcast but i've always felt that i i did get it wrong with mike white and i did take cheap shots about mike's career which is incredible and his only yeah rob you could have been in the white lotus if you didn't rad no i don't think so but you know i was you know taking cheap shots because i i've said this like the thing that has gotten me in trouble on Rob as a podcast, like with consistently has been when I think, oh, this person doesn't listen to the podcast and we can make jokes. And I think that what I try to do is that I do try to treat the podcast a little bit more like it is a roast in that the people who you are roasting are often in the room. And that when I, in my head, get away from like oh Mike White is uh too too big he's not listening to this he's like hey you know what a-hole I was listening and I didn't appreciate what he had to say and so it was right for him to call me out for what I said now he also felt like that I didn't give him enough credit for his game and I think that that's also fair but to me I feel like that that wasn't always in the edit what he was doing. And so I, upon further review, like, and I went back and I remember I interviewed Christian right after the season. Christian said that what Mike White, how he played the game was really an emerging gameplay style that should be studied for years and years. And I'm not sure necessarily if it was to the degree that Christian recommended we take a look at it, but Mike White did play a really, really strong game. And I do think it has been celebrated more over the years as we have gotten further and further away from David versus Goliath. So I did feel like that Mike White had very fair points that he brought up in the way that he did when he called me out in that interview. I cannot wait for you to cover him on Survivor 50 and then him be irascible to you in your ex interview. And now you have to do the mind death of like, OK, was it a bit this time or is he really mad at me? Yeah. Well, I am very eager to see what the presentation is here from Mike White in season 50 as we talk about him. And I am having a hard time really getting a consistent game view of how Mike White is going to be approaching season 50. I would agree with that because he has been on record and he was in this interview as well saying like, you know, I sort of gave up the ghost of final tribal council. I felt like it wasn't the right narrative to have a Goliath win. So I sort of gave up in the end. And I don't think he's doing so here. But he pretty much espouses to me, Rob, in so many ways that he's here to make good TV, that he wants to make sure, listen, it's in the hands of the fans. So let's create a season that the fans want. And yeah, I gotta admit, I was a little mind-deafed, Rob. I was trying to wonder, like, was he trying to sell that to me as a way to mask a strategy, right? Because that is a very powerful tool, the weapon of the meta, to be like, do you think the fans really want X person to stay? Yeah, I think that's hard because as we know from many people who have tried to bring, try to guess what the fans want. I feel like that's often that does not make for great TV when you try to do fan service. So we'll see what Mike is able to do. We know he wants to take out Charlie. Yes. He has been clear about that. but I'm not sure necessarily how he, like what else he's going to try to do. That's the thing is that I think that Mike's game is going to be determined more about the perception of him than maybe any adamancy that he seeks out. I mean, Mike was someone who really mastered your prevailing strategy for big brother, right? Which was like, he was pretty low key the first half of the game. And then once it started getting into five, eight, seven, six, et cetera, then he started really individualizing these moves. So I think if he's trying to get someone like Charlie out, I don't know how much he'll have to mobilize forces considering, as you mentioned, Charlie's reputation. But like I don't necessarily see him being someone to whip together the votes the first time. Well, I think that the thing that he did that was the most impressive was the thing that he did around his reputation in the early part of David versus Goliath, where he would do things intentionally like lose this water bottle. And I'm trying to remember of who said that Mike White just looks consistently confused walking around Ponderosa. So I don't know if he's doing it. That was, I believe, Camilla. No, I think it was Camilla said that Mike looked around continually confused. Maybe he's confused that, like, why is this woman waiting for her parents to come pick her up from detention? Yeah, maybe it's just like, I'm more fascinated in you than I am confused by it all. Yeah, so I don't know necessarily how Mike is going to look at setting up an alliance here in this group, or maybe he may not even want to play an alliance game. I mean, he does say that he's pegging Seri and Ozzy, that he really wants to almost do what Christian's doing, ironically enough, and go to them and be like, listen, I'm going to sit at the end with me. Let's do this thing. Let's have three Google lives sit at the end of the game. The issue would be getting there in the first place. And I think what's so interesting is that how many times, Rob, has it been mentioned in these interviews, oh, well, so many people are going to be wanting to work with Mike to get a cameo in the White Lotus. But as far as I know, not only has no one actually said, I want to be in the White Lotus, I'm working with Mike White. Mike White himself said, like, I don't want to talk about that while I'm out here. I'm on a break from shooting this show. Don't make me get to the subject matter again. It would be very funny to see the person who does bring it up first to Mike White and see how that person, what the reaction is to that. Yeah, I think that because it would be like very Michael Scott to have somebody come in and like angle for a appearance on the White Lotus. What if it's from Jeff? That might be the person. That's right. yeah i'll reveal a key tidbit from the opening match chat that's how jim mike just to let you know can i be in season four just floating it out right here right now i'm just throwing it out there i'm not saying do you have to do it but i'm just saying i'm available yeah so let's talk about the way mike is perceived in this group so charlie feels like mike is a friend he wants to he wants to shoot the shit with him i think that's the thing is that like mike has a very easygoing funny, snarky vibe to him that I think makes him a very fun person to talk to. I feel like Chrissy feels a very similar way. She says she feels they'll click. She also points out that her and Mike are a similar age as well, which is something that could definitely help them connect. Coach also has Mike as a friend, says he's joyous, and that he wants to play the game like a kid, which is the way that Coach wants to do so. He really likes that sort of fancy-free way of playing, which again, that's a lot of the good stuff that Mike was doing. Dee says Mike is a friend. He's quote unquote here for the vibes. Jonathan says Mike is a friend, that they have the love of the game in common. Camilla is the one who says that he is the foe because of the method, the way he's behaving in Ponderosa, and also the fact that as she brings up, that very close to winning on his first time out. And then finally, Tiffany has Mike as a friend, says they're going to have a nice kiki session. so yeah I really do think that we talk about like good try from Mike White I think so although I think by and large people like feel fairly good about him and I really do think that he is going to be I think one of the most socially integrated players in this group because again he's also not someone who's going to put this target on his back by being like I thought Mike was really you know laid back but now he's trying to play in this huge blind side on coach we got to get rid of this guy before he strikes mike doesn't necessarily play that way and i think mike doesn't want to play that way especially early on and so i think if he's sort of confirming their preconceived notions that's only going to help him i think that he could potentially run into danger where once he's going for charlie if he sort of like gets the reputation as being sort of new era hunting of looking for people like okay i'm gunning for the people that the fans didn't really want to see here. I wonder if he could run into trouble there. I also think we talked about this with Angelina, and I know you denied it, but I still do think there might be something in people's heads, especially if they go early to travel council of like, he has two other people from his season. We cannot. That was coach said, right? Coach is basically like, I want to take out. Well, initially he was like, these people who are in groups, I want to work with them because that's strength in numbers. But it certainly is a threatening prospect. And look, people don't necessarily know that like him and Christian maybe are are it's more of a one-sided relationship and that Christian's looking to get some revenge but like just like we talked about with Camilla I think sometimes the idea of the people who are on the other mats can be enough to send them away from your own mat yeah Mike White shouldn't have put Christian on White Lotus until after season 50 exactly it's much like Christian said much like Camilla if Mike White called if Jeff said that Mike White was going to be on season 50, I would have said no to being in the White Lotus season three. I would have said save me for France. Okay, Mike, we have one more person to talk about, and that's going to be Tiffany Nicole Irvin from your beloved new era. Maybe not a season where people were very beloved in each other's eyes, especially in someone who Tiffany is playing alongside here in season 50. You know, I think one of the biggest storylines going in with Tiffany is how do her and Q stand? And I think she put it in a really good way where her and Q outside of the game are great friends. But last time we checked, Survivor Q and Survivor Tiffany are not friends. And so I do appreciate that perspective of like, I am more of a familiarity with Q that I feel like I could work with him, but I am not counting my chickens whatsoever. I'm not relying on him in any way, shape or form. Yeah. And we haven ever seen Tiffany play without Q So it going to be interesting to see her in the pre here where she not on a tribe with Q How does she operate in without Q being a antagonist or ally for her? Yeah, and that's the perspective that she talked about was that she felt one of the reasons why her game fell apart is because she kind of didn't see the forest for the trees. She should have picked more seashells, as you said. She should have stayed more present because she was so kind of flustered by everything going on with Q that it had her kind of lose sight of the fact that a lot of people were saying that she is a massive threat and target leading to her blind side and she talks about her biggest piece of prep between seasons was kind of working on composure and saying mentally sounds keeping her head on that swivel which i think time away from q can also help with i've always been impressed with tiffany i think i had her as a winner pick in season 46 so to kyle yeah bang the drum for her we bang the table for tiffany and she's somebody who I just think has it all she is somebody who's very smart about the game she's an athlete she has a great social game she's very charismatic she's fun in the confessionals and so Tiffany is somebody who I also think could be very overlooked in this season she comes back and she's in the very enviable position of with all due respect to Tiffany probably one of the lesser known players who ends up making the cast of season 50 and i'm old enough to remember back in survivor all-stars when nobody thought amber would win survivor all-stars and a lot of people at that time said well she's only here because elizabeth falarski didn't want to be here mm-hmm yeah i mean this is sort of a trend we've seen in a lot of returning player seasons like yes sandra had won the game before in heroes versus villains but out of all four winners her parvati jt and tom she had far and away the lowest profile and look at parvati in survivor micronesia you could even say cochran to a certain extent like cochran's reputation remember was like him being this pariah who made arguably a game losing move however the difference is that i'm talking about the person who that if you made a fan cast of like what the season was going to be this person would not be on it yet they're here they're sort of not considered to be a very scary presence Cochran was insanely popular out of I guess yeah from a from a win equity maybe you didn't think Cochran could ever go the distance coming into Karamoan but you always thought he would be cast for another returning season. One of the rare favorites on that favorites tribe. Yeah. But here's the question, Rob. Yes, there is historical precedent for these people who are coming in with the smallest resume. I think Senator Lucina also, Survivor Game Changers. Yeah, I would say to a certain extent, based on the fact that, again, she was remembered going out of the game by playing the middle too loudly. And so for Tiffany, yes, on paper, she has the makings of, you know, following in those people's footsteps because I think she has a lot of great core skills. The issue is, Rob, we are in one of the most meta eras of Survivor in the show's history. Continually, these new era players have studied past seasons. They're referencing past seasons, past players in every move they make. And it's been referenced a couple of times. Is the fact that the Tiffany types have won the season before the thing that could put Tiffany in danger? Maybe a little, but I don't know if necessarily people are going to gun for her because other lower profile players have won all star seasons. Yeah, I mean, I could see maybe it's something that could be a piece of criteria for people to talk about her early on. But I do agree with you that I think once these people put the past behind them and focus more on the present mindset, ironically enough, what Tiffany wants to bring into the game. they're going to be more concerned with like, who's a threat to me in the moment, which Tiffany could also be, you know, she is someone who, again, the reason why she was voted out in 46 was because she was a great all around player and people were gunning for her for quite some time. Plus the fact that she had an idol. And so we could see a possible repeat of it, or we could see a version where Tiffany just makes these small, fine tune modifications to her skills. Much like we talked about with Charlie, find the right people, despite the fact that she doesn't want a number one ally, find some people she wants to lock in with, and actually make it to the end of the game as she wanted to in her first season. Okay, let's talk about the people that are in this tribe with Tiffany and see how they're feeling about her. All right, well, let's start with a big one in Charlie. Charlie said that Tiffany is a friend. He is probably more positive on Tiffany than vice versa. He basically says, like, if her and I were on the same starting tribe in 46, it could have worked out very differently. So I think he feels very good about having her on his tribe. Chrissy says Tiffany is a foe, but it's more so about sort of in a Rizzo-Savannah style. Like, I don't really know a lot about her, so I'm fearful at first. Coach says Tiffany is a foe specifically because she will not make eye contact with him. So, again, that could be easily remedied by them hitting the beach together. Yeah, I think he was a little bit more like, I don't know if she's a foe or she's just dying to work with me and she's just not looking at me. Exactly. So it's tough to sort of jump to those conclusions. Well, Dee is happy to jump in with Tiffany saying she's a friend, but she is worried that Tiffany might have better New Era relationships than her, which could put her on the outside. Jonathan says Tiffany is a friend. Camilla says Tiffany is a friend. Sort of like she talks about with the Charlie side of things, she respects her stumping for Kenzie at Final Tribal Council. That's sort of like what she did with Kyle. She was ready to, like, let bygones be bygones, put her own sort of feelings aside, and support her former number one ally. And then Mike said Tiffany is a friend, seems cool, and he would like to get to know her. So again, a largely positive reception from Tiffany, which I think reflects on the way she will get along with a lot of people. Because I think it's also like a really good hang. Again, it's only really when Hugh started getting into her craw for understandable reasons that I think she sort of lost grip of the game and as a result of her looming blind side. Yes, literally to Charlie. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. OK. I believe I believe it actually was the challenge that she lost. Yeah, that was. And Charlie Charlie had a couple of things, I think, that really if he could do it over again, that he did a couple of things of like, you know, Survivor fans, grip strength is actually the most important thing. He also I had rewatched hide and seek for a podcast. It's one of the encore episodes. And Charlie is like, you know, if you're on Survivor, wake up early in the morning. That's when you have the most important conversations. And then also I think him being on the on fire podcast. I think he does come across a little professorial in terms of how he talks about the game, which is one of the things that really makes me feel like I do not think people would have received me particularly well. in survivor 50 i don't have a professor vibe to me good i hope not you know because i think that people with no with no offense to the professors yeah someone who was in this cast well i just look i like to talk about the game but we can have fun too all right well maybe the most teacherly thing you'll do rob shall we go to the big board yeah let's go and let's look at this visual representation because out of all three tribes this is the one i have the hardest time really trying to nail down okay because i don't there's maybe one like there's one dynamic where both of them said they were foes of each other which is jonathan and camilla but even then i don't think it's going to be a jonathan and camilla immediately gun for each other the way that we talked about with like uh angelina and colby or even like jenna and sari to a certain extent on the orange tribe okay all right so let's let's take tiffany down and let's see if i can find the right screen to be able to do this this also feels like a very professorly thing yes yeah when when stream stream yard is being very annoying today so uh let me see if i can uh do it over here and okay i think let's see i think we got it um or not all right mike you talk for a minute while i figure this out all right yeah uh so let's talk about what i feel like again i'm having a really tough time getting my hands around what the core of this tribe might be but if i were to settle upon at least an initial dynamic. I think we've got the FOBs going on, the Friends of Ben, and that is Charlie, Coach, and Dee. I think that all three want to work with each other. I think all three are at least somewhat familiar with each other. I would not be surprised if all three pre-gained with each other. And so I think that those three could easily seek each other out to form at least some sort of initial dynamic. Okay, so Charlie, Coach, and Dee. Yeah, I think that, again, Coach is not afraid to work with Dee. Charlie said Dee is one of the people he's closest to out here, so I think both of them are willing to play ball with her, even if we feel like she's going to be targeted by the others. Okay, and yeah, that makes sense. I feel like that that's really best-case scenario for Charlie. Yes, I think so. Again, that's what I said before about how even on paper, he might be in danger from a lot of players. he's got two friends seemingly right here which i think are going to go a long way in him at least not being one of the first couple boots on this all right i'll see your coach d and charlie and i will add jonathan to whatever alliance is happening yeah i think that uh this is somebody who would probably get brought into any sort of majority because he viewed as an asset on the tribe and also not that big of like if we tell jonathan something he's not going to go blab the plan and then make a counter alliance against us so i think if they're trying to form a core from the outset it would make sense to bring jonathan in okay is there anybody else that you feel like charlie i think could stump for tiffany d also was high on tiffany yeah i think that's i she seems safe to me i think that tiffany is a good lock safe pick because i think that charlie could also be like okay if something's up like i know tiff i don't mind getting rid of her you don't need to worry and even so if it's a five-person alliance if they feel like there's gonna be a 46 team up there's more than them than there are of the 46ers okay uh and then we have chrissy we have mike and we have camilla so i feel like you know this i mean five into eight is in to quote brad culpepper so they might just want to do this but i could see them like like i could see Mike be a good person that they would want to get into this because he does seem like such a good hang if his social skills are really up to snuff as people are wanting that it could be like oh yeah we want to bring Mike in let's have Mike work with us I think Chrissy like coach really wants to work with Chrissy Charlie really wants to work with Chrissy I know that people like Dee and Jonathan are made or Jonathan actually wants to work with Chrissy Dee's maybe a little threatened by her but I don't know if that'll preclude people from working with Chrissy I think, unfortunately, more and more, this is looking like now maybe there's one exception here. Let's look upon some historical precedent here, Rob, because I'm thinking back to Survivor South Pacific. And I'm thinking about Coach being part of this early majority alliance and then finding Edna Ma and being like, you're not a part of this, but I feel really good about you. I'm working with you on the side and eventually bringing you into our alliance. I could see Coach easily doing that with Camilla. I could see that. That certainly is possible. I know Dee wants to work with Kyle, wants to keep Kyle around. Does Dee feel like in any way, oh, is it helping Kyle to get rid of Camilla? I mean, she said she wanted to work with Camilla. She liked the fact that she stumped for him on the jury. Yeah, but now that's just in a vacuum. Now we're sort of like out in the field. i mean yeah that's a classic strategy too right of like i want to get rid of this person's number one so that i want to be their number one i want kyle to be less threatening so why don't we get rid of camilla i've got a little 240 chest for someone like d who feels like she has a big target on herself going in did you see what she did with telling julie with playing the idol yeah that's true i don't know i'm having a difficult time trying to figure out like of these three could it be chrissy could they go after chrissy here i could see something with Chrissy where like she touts the fact that she's not as connected to these people. So she's less threatening. Yeah. Could be something to easily be like, yeah, you're less connected. So we don't feel bad voting you out. Give me the relationships that D was not high on Chrissy, right? D was not high on Chrissy, felt she was too cutthroat. She liked Mike. He was here for the vibes. And again, like I mentioned before, she was friends. She wants to be friends with Camilla because of the way she stumped for Kyle. I just think that D could be the loudest voice in the room here. and of these three people the one that d doesn't want to work with is chrissy now i guess the question is though would people want to work with d with her being the loudest voice would it just confirm their juts of like oh nope she's coming out with even more guns blazing than how did coach feel about d he was he was high on d coach was high on d uh let's see he said that yeah cool vibe and he doesn't care about working with winners i mean coach again if it from his newfound perspective of I don't need to lead, I think he's more than happy to draft behind D the dragon as long as he wants to. Yeah, I just, I feel like there's a lot of people that are going to want to just go along with what other people are doing, and I feel that D is going to be the one person who's like, here's what we're doing. So could we see then, as much as I'm talking about and you're saying like, who's going to not put themselves forward, could we see a dynamic of like Chrissy versus D? it certainly is possible Chrissy was I think the most vocal Mike was pretty vocal as well about like no winners they've got to go but Dee might have the numbers on her side what if we have Chrissy and she's going to try to put her people together Chrissy shows up and she's going to play hard from the jump and we think that her and Mike White will get along her and Mike I think would definitely get along he was a fan of hers And I think, again, if they're united under the same philosophy of that winner's got to, you know, get their torch snuffed ASAP. I think it makes sense. I am negotiable on D and Charlie, I feel like are going to be in lockstep. I think that coach probably actually do Malcolm and Denise this time. Yes. I just I have a hard time pulling Jonathan or Tiffany away from this group. I mean to be fair Jonathan did say that D was a foe And he liked Mike White Jonathan did like Mike White Feels like they have the love of the game in common Jonathan is going to go away from Coach I think that wherever Coach goes I think that Jonathan will follow I mean I think that Coach could also Be someone that if he feels like the numbers are amassing Is more than happy to vote out someone like D Who he's like tangentially connected to Hmm He's just such a good person in the challenges. I would, I really struggle to see where we're going to pull together this group, this loose group to vote out D early on, be the first person out of the tribe. I mean, yeah, that's wild. That arguably one of the people with the biggest profiles coming into this game might be one of the most well-protected from being the first boot. Yeah. Do you see the scenario where Camilla goes? I could definitely see the situation. I mean, if there was going to be one version where we get a seven-on-one, I feel like it ends up being could be the seven on one against Camilla. I think that is the easiest vote if they want to remain unanimous and cohesive early on. I think that as much as he would make a bond, she would make a bond with coach. As we mentioned, I don't think coach is going to stick his neck out early on. And, you know, fall on his sword, for lack of a better term, for Camilla. I think he'd be more than happy to let her go. Yeah, I think that if any coach based off his past games, I think that we get a little bit more of like a heroes versus villains coach. were sort of like go along to get along with the group play his shot in the dark so he doesn't have to vote her out so i could see that i i really i was worried about charlie especially with mike white wanting to go and and get charlie out early but it doesn't really feel like that mike white is going to have the numbers to be able to push against charlie especially if he wants him to stay yeah and i think that it's interesting because i think the people he would want to bring over like Chrissy on paper could be someone who would want a good for Charlie Beatley, but Chrissy really wants to work with Charlie. It's tough finding the people. Again, I think only two people really selected Charlie as a foe, and Mike was one of them. So I think he might – now maybe Charlie will do stuff on the island to warrant people agreeing with him, but at least on the surface, he doesn't have many people on his side who agree with that concept. Anything else you want to say about the tribe dynamics? I don't entirely think so. I just want to see as much Coach and Camilla interaction as possible. Because, again, this is going to be Coach's dream come true. If she is just sitting in his shadow, following around all the stories that he's going to tell. This seems like a really fun tribe. You know, given their challenge performances, I would not be surprised if this is one of those tribes that, like, doesn't go to tribal until, like, episode four or five. Like, they seem, like, much like the Orange Tribe, a very stable group. And we'll see if that bears out. I don't necessarily expect fireworks with this group. like I do the other two tribes. But listen, they could surprise me. And I do think, going back to what I said at the very beginning, I do think if you're looking at Coach, who obviously I did, you could look at Chrissy, you could look at, you know, Tiffany. You could even look at Diagon if you want to. I do think that while a lot of people could win Survivor 50, there are cases to be made for a good amount of people in this tribe. It's also a tough season to prognosticate first boot, where we have had certainly seasons where we say, okay, that's clear first boot. If this tribe goes to tribal council, they're definitely out first. I know over on Patreon that there was a first – Brandon did a first boot draft with a bunch of people and that I had not listened to that yet. I want to go back. They did it while they were away, so there was no chance that anybody would have been spoiled. So I think that that is a really tough thing to prognosticate of who could be the first boot in this season. I mean, there are a couple of people that stick out right off the bat. Like, you know, again, you look at the most perennial foes. That is obviously Rizzo and Savannah. That is Q. That is, you know, maybe some of the winners to a certain extent if they want to play that game. But again, there is even more so in a returning season, so many different pieces of criteria you are incorporating into your syllabus to go back to the professorship of it all of like, okay, do challenges matter? Is this person connected to someone else that I do or don't want to work with? Do I feel good about this person? Am I worried about this person based on what they did in a previous season? There's just so many other things, unseen factors that we don't necessarily know about that I agree. It won't be so straightforward as to like, well, this tribe is probably going to lose early on and then they're going to get rid of one of their weakest members. They certainly could. But I think given, as Mike White talks about, the ephemera around this milestone season, I don't think they necessarily want to move forward with straightforward votes that early on. All right. Mike Bloom, what an incredible job you've done. What is this, eight months in the making? Something like that. I feel like I'm a Marty McFly hopping through time, jumping back to, you know, May, June 2025. I cannot thank you all enough. God, I had so much fun getting to be out there and talking with these people. I arguably had even more fun having you all get to experience what I did in the moment. And I'll say what I keep telling people who have talked to me both online and in person about this, which is like, again, you saw the cast on paper in May. Certainly some question marks. Certainly some like, OK, are we going Legends? Are we going New Era? Are we going, you know, Second Chances? It was a combination of everything. But I did find a unifying theme in talking with all 24 people. They each felt they needed to be out there for season 50. whether it was to rewrite the ending of their survivor narrative from long ago, whether it was to showcase how different of a person they are, whether it's to seek some form of redemption, or whether it's to follow up, you know, something you did only a few years ago and feel like you now more acutely sharpened your skills to be able to do so. It was just such an incredible experience getting to talk with each and every person out there. I mean, I'll admit, I've said it before, I'll keep on saying it. I was bawling at the Survivor 50 match chat. And it wasn't because Mike White promised Jeff Probst a cameo in White Lotus Season 4. It's nothing to do with how people were, you know, reacting or doing things in the opening talks with Jeff. But I think, for me, it was this overwhelming tidal wave of gratitude from my perspective. Because, like, who am I? I am someone who has due largely in part to someone like yourself, Rob, been given the incredible opportunity to get to talk and write about a show that has become such a part of my lifeblood for 25 years. and to be able to sit down with, you know, your coaches and your Colby's and your Ceres, who I never thought I'd be able to in my life, to getting to speak with new era standouts that I've gone to know very intimately over the past few years, to getting to have Christian, who I consider a friend of mine, reveal his child to me. Like, it was a really special moment that I want to, like, preserve in a snow globe of just what Survivor means to me. And if any of that came across in the interviews that I did. It is so incredibly appreciated. I've received such kind words from so many people about, you know, listen, if I die tomorrow, like friend or foe might be the best thing I've ever produced in my life. I'm so happy with how that game turned out. And it just, it means the world to people who checked out everything. I know it was a lot, these podcasts included, but you have no idea how much it means to me to hear all that and to have CBS give me the opportunity to for lack of a better term, make dreams come true. Mike, if there's any doubt on your part, there's never any question that your passion for what you do comes through in everything. So never, ever wonder if your love for this thing of ours ever comes through. And that does sound like a beautiful moment for you that to be so emotionally moved. And I'm so glad for you that you got to be a part of this culmination of this 26 year journey that we've all been on together. And so that does sound like a beautiful moment. And it's so clear your abundance of excitement for all of this. And it's palpable. Thank you. Yeah. And now we actually see what happens right now. we're actually, we primed the engine. Now it's time we turn the key on this thing. So for all we know, we have no idea how this season is going to turn out. But I don't know. I keep using the term headspace when I was talking with these players. I felt in a really good headspace, at least starting the season off. And I hope you all are as well. I know I've certainly seen comments about interviews that have surprised people, interviews that have heartened people, interviews that people have found instantly iconic, to use a Jeff Probst quote. And so again, thank you all so much for following us on this journey. Rob, thank you for getting together for these two-hour previews to try to prognosticate what might possibly happen before we crumple it all up and throw it into the waste bin. This was not a waste getting to talk through all of this with you, and even more to come. We still have two weeks of preseason left. And everybody is so pumped up for February 25th to watch the premiere of your beloved Survivor 50. Thank you, my beloved, dearly beloved. So, let's talk, I could tease a couple of other things I've got because I'm not done yet yet. I have put out all the cast interviews both in this form and over on Parade.com but actually I'm not done talking about the Survivor 50 cast just yet including on the islands of Fiji because on Friday I've got a very special treat for people. So on day one of Survivor 50 the tries were revealed to us much as they were revealed to the players and so with that plus the information and opinions we gleaned from our interviews, I sat down with the one, the only Dalton Ross, and we did a cast draft. We went back and forth drafting members. It was a winner-take-all of the 24 players, giving our thoughts along the way based on our interviews with them, other people's perceptions of them. That was really cool. I spoke about it on the podcast. But again, doing this sort of like navel-gazing for me, like Dalton is somebody who made me realize that you could make a career out of writing and covering Survivor. And so it was a really awesome moment to just be able to sit with him, have him on a podcast, give our sometimes discrepant, sometimes similar opinions about that. So, yeah, I know that obviously you have the draft that was done back in the summer, but it's coming out very soon. But if you want to check out a draft done fresh in the moment, like the live after show, we've bottled that, and we will be releasing it come Friday. Audio only. You don't necessarily want to see my hotel room. So just in podcast form. All right. Mike, anything else you want to let people know about? Yeah, I've got something else for you. Yes. You're spoiling us. Not literally, though. I won't tell you anything that happened in the first few days. But I will, once the season premieres, I will be able to talk a little bit about my experience going through the events of the first few days of Survivor 50. Of course, we've got the B&B going on as well. But in a week from now, February 18th, I had the chance to talk with four players who are not on Survivor 50, but their legacies are certainly there. You could say they're monumental because, in my opinion, they are etched into an outright Survivor monument. I have a cover story coming out for Parade with the Mount Rushmore of Survivor. Wow. Parvati, Boston Rob, Sandra, Tony. I spoke with all four of them about their Survivor experiences from beginning to end, hitting on some highs, some lows, how they look back on the show now, who they're rooting for in Season 50. Got some really cool tidbits that I was not aware of that still, you know, are able to get my history brain a ticking when it comes to Survivor. So if you're interested in it, feel free to check it out. Of course, I'll promote the crap out of it once it ends up coming out next Wednesday. But, yeah, a really fun way to, again, look back on this milestone season by talking with four of the people that helped get us to 50 seasons in the first place. OK, incredible job, Mike. We love to hear what everybody has to say in the comments. The response to all the interviews, as Mike mentioned, has really been incredible. I have been just very impressed with the turnout for all of these Survivor 50 interviews. You have shattered records. I don't know if you heard, Rob. I actually shattered a glass through the course of this podcast. I did hear that, and I wondered what had happened. Listen, it's just me saying Mazel Tov to the new season of Survivor preemptively. Yeah. So, interesting. I thought Stone Cold Steve Austin was coming out. No, actually, I pounded the table too much and a glass smashed. So, luckily, much like some of these players, Rob, I have to tiptoe around. Don't pull in Auris and then get medically evacuated almost. Yeah, listen, I'm happy to be part of our final two, Rob, even if I was medically evacuated from it, much like Anis would have been. Okay. All right. Thank you so much for joining us. Take care, everybody. Have a good one. Bye.