What are you up to this weekend? There's a new Spielberg out that's supposed to be nuts. What are you gonna do? Full disclosure. To the whole world. All at once. If The Mandalorian and his little buddy Grogu didn't already do it, Disclosure Day will officially kick off a big blockbuster summer for the movies. No one could stand between my men. We've got Sir Nohwin. And home. We've got Woody and Buzz. We're finding more abandoned toys each day. We're down! We've got Spider-Man Supergirl. We've got one with Anne Hathaway and Dinosaurs. But all those big ones aren't necessarily what's got Hollywood a buzz. People are talking about movies with much smaller budgets. In particular, Iron Lung, Obsession, and Backrooms. Because they all have one thing in common. And if you don't know what it is, we'll tell you on Today Explained from Vox. We come to this place from Today Explained. Okay, Stephen Zeitschik is the senior editor of tech and politics at The Hollywood Reporter. And we asked him here to tell us more about what Iron Lung, Obsession, and Backrooms have in common. And what they have in common is YouTube, by the way. It's been a pretty roller coaster few weeks in Hollywood in terms of what's been taken the box office by storm. And this is a number of YouTubers. Really starts back in January with a creator named Markiplier who did a film called Iron Lung. You did test this thing, right? This is the test. This movie made $21 million dollars opening worldwide. Markiplier's Iron Lung has now almost earned $50 million worldwide. He self-financed this and self-distributed it, which is not normal at all. But the two big ones in the last few weeks are Obsession by Corey Barker. I love you so, so, so, so much. That blew the doors off the box office and has now become the highest grossing movie all time in the history of focused features. And then not long after that, we had Kane Parsons or aka Kane Pixels, who many listeners may know. He's got three million followers on YouTube for his creation backrooms. I found a place. And he put it all together, actually created a new film. And the film also, I think, will become, if it isn't already, the highest grossing movie ahead of films like Lady Bird and Midsommar. And I think Marty Supreme was the last domino to fall for A24. It's got to be higher grossing than all of them. So, pretty big revolution going on. Now, people who hear YouTube creators are making movies might think that these movies look like the Joe Rogan experience, but these movies do not look like the Joe Rogan experience. In fact, if you didn't know that they were affiliated with some sort of YouTube creator, you might just assume they're your typical studio horror movie, right? Yeah, that's right. I mean, they're low budget horror, obviously. Sean is a genre that's pretty time tested in Hollywood. You can go back to paranormal activity about 17, 18 years ago. Something's here. I feel it breathing on me. Go back to the Blair Witch Project almost three decades ago. Shake your camera. Some of your OG listeners might even remember seeing that in theaters. And so low budget horror is a huge genre for Hollywood. People are used to seeing these movies that don't need any kind of fancy effects, don't need big stars. And, you know, let's face it, these are creators who are used to making things on a budget. If you go on YouTube and you watch what content creators are doing, you don't need to spend a lot of money to make it look good. And so you kind of marry the expectation of the audience with the talent of the filmmakers and you get this exact elixir that you're describing. And what is the talent of these particular YouTubers, filmmakers, Markiplier, Curry Barker, Cain Pixels? What are they particularly good at? Because I assume they're not deeply experienced filmmakers. Aren't some of these guys really young? Yeah. Well, Cain is actually 20. Mark's a little bit older. He's in his late 30s. And Corey, I think, is in his mid-20s. You know, they're good at two things. One of which is kind of staple for any filmmaker, any person who's ever directed a movie at Sundance. And that's just understanding the power of images and the power of storytelling. Some of them are a little bit more, maybe a little more visual, some are a little more narrative, but like, they get that. The other thing they understand that a lot of filmmakers don't or just don't have the opportunity to get is their audience. YouTube taught me through the comments that people are really smart. They'll pick up on things you didn't even intend and you just kind of learn like, okay, a modern horror audience is actually very smart. So let's not treat them like they're dumb. You know, when this film comes out and when it's in theaters, I probably won't be going out and around. I'll be online monitoring. Being on that wavelength has been very helpful, I'd say, for just sort of being respectful to the audience. They know what they respond to. They know what they don't respond to. If something isn't working, they could pivot on a dime. And so, you know, that's something that, again, I think Hollywood is probably right for that kind of sort of innovation, if you will. And these guys are bringing it to them in space. And are they making good movies or is it just that, hey, our audience is loyal and they'll do whatever we ask them to do? You know, it's funny, before these movies came out, I kind of had the same question and I'm like, look, is this just sort of a brand play and this just will follow you to wherever? Now, I should say there are plenty of franchises, film franchises that studios put out, which we will remain nameless because, you know, I don't want to obscenity my sources. But yeah, I think listeners can use their imagination on what those are. I'm hearing like lightsabers and superheroes like crashing into stuff. I can either confirm or deny what you're talking about, Sean. I am a flop. But look, a lot of franchises can come up with great installments, can be long in the tooth and still get fans, even when they're not as great anymore. That all happens. I think that is a big fear here, that this is just the filmmaker is his or her own franchise. I think what's been striking is that each of these films has a vision. Now, it may not be everyone's vision. I'll tell you just kind of from my own perspective, you know, you watch Obsession, that feels to me like a fairly traditional narrative thriller and it plays that way. You saw the reviews kind of reflect that. You watch Backrooms if you're not maybe extremely online, if you're not a Alpha Gen Z type person who's kind of used to seeing these like few minute mysterious memes. It's beautiful. Am I right? Hello? That movie to me resonated in a different way. But what's been striking to me is that it's not like the movies are doing well simply because of their filmmakers. They're doing well because of their vision. Whether you like that vision, of course, that's up to you. And you called it a disruption, the success of these three films. And in some cases, the enormous success of say Backrooms. Tell me about the disruption. We'll start with the first one that came out back this winter, the Markiplier film Iron Lung. This guy self distributed his movie. Now, admittedly, he has 38 million followers or something in that vicinity and he's been doing this a long time. I make an ungodly amount of money and it feels unfair. My channel has had 17 billion views. That is that's insane. Yes, that's what I'm saying. But to really go out there with no marketing support whatsoever and just kind of say I'm going to put in theaters myself. He made, I think, 40 million dollars here in the US, 10 million dollars overseas. You had a unique profit sharing model with the cast and crew. So I basically I took their salary that I paid them for the production days. I said, like, I'm going to apply that again as a bonus. And so just like whatever your salary was, it's now doubled. And then the other thing you did that was super interesting is he said, you know what, instead of selling it to a Netflix or an HBO or so, one of these platforms that has been buying movies for years, I'm going to put it out myself on my platform on YouTube. Iron Lung is now available exclusively on YouTube. So you can click the link that's up there, down there, or even on my face to go find it on YouTube movies. Don't know what YouTube movies is, where you can buy or rent movies on YouTube. Didn't know you could do that? Well, you can. Five bucks to rent, 10 bucks to buy. And again, you know, YouTube, that's the kind of thing where YouTube lets you keep a very big chunk of that change. Obviously, their business model was not to buy stuff, buy libraries the way Netflix does. So he's kind of a disruptor to me, Markiplier, on both ends, where he put it out in theaters on his own and put it on YouTube kind of kept it exclusive there. If we're talking about Barker and Parsons, I would say they're partial disruptors. I mean, certainly just the very fact that they made these movies and that distributors took a chance on them in the way that they did is disruptive. But I would caution folks who say, and believe me, I've encountered it even at my own publication and plenty of sources too, are like, well, this is just a new film school. You know, this is just people, you know, or the new film festival world where it's like, okay, we've always found, you know, the industry, the machine, if you will, has always found like talent in new places. And this is just another one. Let's not assume the business is just going to continue as usual with just one more new way to find talent. I'm saying there's going to be new modes of distribution, new modes of financing, new modes of marketing that go beyond just, hey, do you find your director at a festival or online? Everything seems to be trending to YouTube or bending to YouTube's will, be it, you know, sports or be it podcasts or even like TV now with YouTube TV. YouTube is the place to be. Why do these young filmmakers want to be in movie theaters? I mean, I feel like we on this show even have been talking for years about whether movie theaters are going to make it. We have any idea how many theaters in the country across the world have permanently shut down. And now it looks like they might be having a big year with Odyssey and Toy Story in Dune. But why do these guys want to be in that space? There is money. Like people are paying 15, 20 bucks a pop. But there's also a lot of prestige and a lot of audience value that comes with it. I mean, I talked to an executive at YouTube about this and they were saying that, look, you know, we've seen this with creators for years. Their fans want to gather. You know, they may want to gather at VidCon. They may want to gather at a concert. They may want to gather at a book signing at some other kind of creator event. And theaters, even though obviously the creator is not physically there with them, it's just an extension of that same idea. Okay, so Hollywood is learning to love YouTube and after a lot of kicking and screaming, it's getting ready to friend AI too. We'll do that disruption with Steven next on Today Explained. Support for the show today comes from Quince. There's no better time than today to update your wardrobe. And it's not because your clothes aren't fabulous. It's not because you're not fabulous. You're fabulous. But look, look outside. 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For more information on APY rates, my pay, spot me and travel perks, go to chime.com slash disclosures. Hi, I'm Maria Sharapova, host of the Pretty Tough Podcast. Each episode I sit down with high-achieving women to discuss the pursuit of excellence without apology. This week, model, sports-illustrated cover girl and entrepreneur, Ashley Graham, talks about the time she almost quit. I called my mom and I said, mom, I just, I'm not going to do this anymore. And she told me, no, you are going to stick this out. Your body is going to change someone's life. Every decade, you're going to go through something different. So be really happy with who you are right now because things change. Check out Pretty Tough, new episodes on Wednesdays. You can watch it on YouTube or listen in your favorite podcast app. I don't know what today it's playing. I think she's doing. She's disrupting. Let's start with Martin Scorsese. There was a big actor strike just a couple years ago in Hollywood and one of the biggest issues was, was AI. And AI was, was the boogeyman who was going to, you know, come for all of our identities and our intellectual property. And now you've got like the most perhaps illustrious living director saying, you know, I'm going to mess with AI. If you have a tool like this, you could figure it out much, much quicker. And you could save production time and also less wear and tear in the crew. How did that happen? What happened? What is he saying? What's Marty saying? All right. So I have kind of two thoughts about this and they're sort of opposite. One is like everybody needs to chill. And the other is everybody can freak the fuck out. No, look, here's the thing. What Scorsese, the part where everybody needs to chill is this guy's been using tech for a while. Anyone who saw the Irishman was at seven years ago now knows how we use the aging technology. He was on the cutting edge of that. The Nero was 75 and Puccino, a sprightly 79, appear at different ages spanning decades, which is accomplished with VFX and makeup. But it's the digital de-aging work that has already been the focus of much curiosity. I think it's the first time this kind of thing is done for this type of narrative film, this type of character film. For the most part, actors are OK with that. So in that regard, I think people may need to chill. Where they may be needing to freak out and freaking out even more than they already are is Scorsese says, yeah, I'm going to use this tech to figure out my films from a storyboarding perspective. This conveys a cinematic, a cinematic intelligence. Not necessarily painting, not necessarily literature. You know, it's cinema. So that's the great thing about this tool. The thing that's kind of crazy about it. And I've talked, I have some sources on this front. I've been warning about this for a while is like those are people's jobs, like in livelihoods. Like there are concept illustrators and designers and folks who are kind of, you know, figuring out the look and feel of a film long before the first camera starts rolling. That is a whole class of job in Hollywood. What he's essentially saying is like, we don't need this group of people anymore. And we can automate that. And I think once you start automating that part of the process, what you're really saying is nothing is off limits. And that's not even a slippery slope. That is like a flat wall that is right down to all right. So what's next? And it's not just Marty. I mean, there are other names in Hollywood who are saying, yeah, AI, let's let's engage. Who are they? Yeah, well, look, Jim Cameron. I mean, I think predated Scorsese by a couple of years. If we want to continue to see the kinds of movies that I've always loved and that I like to make and that I will go to see big effects, heavy, you know, CG heavy films, we've got to figure out how to cut the cost of that in half. Totally. That's not about laying off half the staff out of the effects company. That's about doubling their speed to completion on a given shot. With the brutalist and Brady Corbett in the Oscar race, all that was used for he used it for a little bit of like accent tinkering so Adrian Brody could sound more Hungarian. I actually talked to Matt Stone. He and Trey Parker, the South Park guys, using it in partnership to do things we haven't seen done before. There's a Trump deep fake they used on their own show. Hi, kids. I'm Donald Trump, your president, and I'm going to read you a story. I mean, there is a lot of stuff coming in from all angles. I think what we need to do, Sean, is just distinguish it between, you know, where are we automating art and where are we taking something that could be done by humans and is just being done either just as well or more likely not as well by machines to save money or for whatever reason. And that's a me, you know, whether you want to call it slop or just kind of like, you know, the inshification trend. Like that to me is where we really have to be careful. Matt Stone said to me, he's like, I don't want it to do anything that humans can do because the reality is like we have humans who can do that. Well, we don't need a technology to just kind of replace them. I want to see it do something that a human can't do. Like that feels like the tool aspect of it and not the automation replacement aspect. So I just, I don't know. I guess AI gets all sort of lumped into the same bucket in Hollywood, but I feel like there are distinctions. You know, he's no Martin Scorsese, but Darren Aronofsky, who people love, you know, he's behind movies that you may have seen like, like, like Noah or the whale or many years ago, Requiem for a Dream, Pie. I think he made a fully AI movie, right? Did did anyone see it? Did anyone like it? Well, Aronofsky is a fascinating case. And as you noted, I mean, he's a great filmmaker, Black Swan, perhaps his biggest hit and just beloved for the kinds of movies. Mother, a favorite of mine. I mean, he is an incredible filmmaker. What he decided to do was basically he wanted to do historical reconstructions about the Revolutionary War and our founding fathers and mothers. And he partnered with Time Magazine and he kind of created this web series called On This Day that essentially in honor of America's 250th went back and recreated moments of American dependence. And he said, I'm going to do it all in model. In America, the law is key. Now, he got pilloried online when it came out this winter. Look at the way Benjamin Franklin looks in this fucking trailer. He looks like Gollum if he went to a boarding school. His entire career about humanity. Let's strip it away. I have lost all my respect for Darren Aronofsky. Some of it was very uncanny, valious. We are now the troops of the United Colonies of North America. And look, to me, he was trying something that I think it was like the greatest work. Was it his greatest work? Far from it on either score. That said, are there going to be filmmakers, young filmmakers, people who don't have the budget, people who are starting out who literally would not have the chance to make this movie, who make something super cool in model and maybe it leads to something else or maybe it's just interesting on its own? I think that will happen too. So both things can be true. That's, I guess, what's more interesting here. Maybe the great innovation won't be coming from a Martin Scorsese who I think is like well into his 80s or a Jim Cameron who's getting a little tired with those Avatar movies or an Aronofsky who's always been interested in trying new things. But maybe it's going to be coming from someone who doesn't have the cache. Doesn't have any funding, who really just starts innovating with these tools. Well, it's interesting at the Hollywood Reporter, we did an AI issue. And then one of my colleagues interviewed Gossip Goblin, who some listeners may know he's got about a million plus followers online. I know you, boss. No, I don't think so. He's a pure AI creator, kind of a genre, Guillermo. Guillermo Del Toro type, but using AI, not really my speed. It's kind of very baroque, but there's real vision. He spends months storyboarding, like hitting plot points, outlining and then eventually, you know, shooting, which again is a misnomer. But like generating these scenes and these moments in the model. We're not encumbered by the fact that like we would need to raise, you know, 50 to 200 million dollars to tell this story. You know, there is an argument that someone like that is going to emerge. And do they exist only kind of in this online AI film world? Do they cross over? I don't know. But surely there's a lot of potential there. I think this trend of creator driven filmmaking and AI efficiency are going to merge and who the hell knows what's going to emerge, but it's going to be fascinating. You know, it's funny you mentioned Guillermo Del Toro because I believe he is one of the holdouts here, right? He's a filmmaking purist who says, get that AI away from me. It's giving me the ick. Is he increasingly alone in that ideology? You know, it's funny. I've interviewed Guillermo about this and, you know, he has come out and said very open guy. Fuck AI. He said it multiple times. I don't know of any artists that raised their hand and said, we need AI. Yeah, nobody. Like, like, you know, somebody that somebody that's into the middle of the party, sharded. And now it wants to be applauded for. Yeah. If you look at some other big creators, Vince Gilligan, who of course did Breaking Bad and now has Puribus on Apple TV. In fact, I think he's got a little credit line at the end of Puribus saying, you know, made by humans. I mean, these are people who are drawing lines of the sand, very established people. And I don't know, are they alone? Maybe, maybe not. Like, I think there is a pretty big camp in legacy Hollywood at least and pretty high end filmmakers who, you know, will say, I'm not really going to use it. But, you know, you see that with technology in general. So I think there's that camp is going to be significant, but will they be dominant? I'm not so sure. Well, your piece about AI in Hollywood for the Hollywood Reporter was called Saviour or Slayer? What AI is doing to Hollywood? Unfortunately, I got to the end of it and you never clearly said whether it was Saviour or Slayer. But that's OK, because maybe you didn't come up with that headline. But can I ask what the vibe is out there? Yeah. I cannot even claim any plausible deniability there, Sean, because I did come up with that headline mostly because I like the rhyme. But like any good news analysis essay writing journalist, I gave you all sides and left you completely unsatisfied with what the answer is. I think where I ended up is I think it is going to slay huge parts of the industry or at least transform them. I think a lot of physical sets will not be the same. And I think a lot of, again, call it human slop or call it more commodity content. I think we'll have a strong, strong AI component. Do I think that's going to happen for every one of those shows or movies or let alone for the higher, more turd driven ones? Absolutely not. In five years and then in 10 years is more content we watch going to be AI led or human led? I suspect it's going to be more AI than human, at least in terms of how assisted it is. That doesn't mean there isn't a human at the helm. But like in terms of like was there AI involved in the making of this episode or this film and to a pretty significant extent, I think more often than not the answer in a few years is going to be yes. Steven Zajcik, as you heard, writes for The Hollywood Reporter, but he also has a sub-stack, if you're into that sort of thing. It's all about tech and AI and it's called Mind and Iron. Peter Ballin on Rosen was our mind today. Jenny Lawton was our iron. Patrick Boyd and David Tadashore were not only in the mix, but on it. Gabriel Donitov was on Facts. Ariana Espuru, Dustin DeSoto, Kelly Wessinger, Hadi Mawagdi, Danielle Hewitt and Miles Bryan also make the show. Abhishek Artsi, Amanal Asadi, Jolie Myers and Miranda Kennedy help run it. Breakmaster Cylinder scores. Noel King is my co-star. I'm Sean Ramos for him. Today explained is distributed by WNYC. The show is a part of the Vox Media Podcast Network, which you can learn more about at podcast.boxmedia.com. 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