My Husband Never Has Time for Me or the Kids

My husband has a pretty busy job and so just isn't really able to help. We don't have a whole lot of family support, so I'm kind of stuck doing most of it by myself. Okay, the more you're talking, the more I'm getting the sense that your marriage isn't pretty significant peril. So I guess the scary, terrifying question that I often ask folks is... What's going on? What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloni show. It's you and me and a couple of million people talking about what's going on in your life. Your marriage, your mental and emotional health, your kids, whatever you got going on. That's what this show is, sitting with hurting people, trying to figure out what's the next right move. Real people going through real challenges. If you want to be on the show, go to JohnDeloni-slash-ask. I'm sorry, JohnDeloni.com-slash-ask. And we'd love to have you on. All right, let's talk about your marriage. Right now we have February and October weekends on sale for the money in marriage getaways. The best marriage retreat on the planet. Tickets start at $749 a couple. Get yours at ramsysolutions.com-slash-getaway. Let's go to Austin, Texas and talk to the great and wonderful Elizabeth. Hey, Elizabeth, what's up? Hi, Dr. John, how are you? I'm good and you? I'm doing well. Thank you. What's up? So I was calling because I guess my question is how to handle my husband's limited help as a mom to two under two? Oh, geez, two under two. I just recently had another baby and the baby is about four weeks old now. My first is about 17 months old, so very busy. My husband has a pretty busy job and so just isn't really able to help. We don't have a whole lot of family support, so I'm kind of stuck doing most of it by myself. I think the key there is that last word you used. Yeah. Is motherhood was never designed to be by yourself. Even the fantasy of the stay-at-home mom, this idea that one person can navigate all things at all times alone and by themselves and lack of sleep and feeding and food and diapers and stuff and lions and tigers and bears, oh my, it's a madhouse fantasy. It's not real. I think it's driven a century's worth of Western world women into wondering what's wrong with them, into guilt, into shame, into all these different things that has never been true in all of human history, which is you go home, close the door, it's you and this one kid, these two kids, these three kids, and you got to do it all by yourself. So tell me about your husband's job that he can't come home and help even when he's tired. So he's pretty busy. He is actually a lawyer, a pretty new lawyer, works in big law. Is he on the partner track? Yeah. Okay. So you've lost him for two years, right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's kind of what it feels like. And that expectation was that going into this. I knew that going into this. Cool. I guess I didn't realize how hard it was going to be as a new mom without any family support. We are not actually originally from the Austin area. So, yeah, it's kind of learning and trying to build a community here, which is hard to do as a new mom with two little ones and a husband that works, you know, a lot. He works a lot. And so, you know, I knew going into it, it wasn't like that. Expectation wasn't set. He very much forewarned me of that. But I didn't realize the amount of time that it would require of him to do that. And so I realized that our future, there is a light at the end of that tunnel. But it's just been really hard. Like there are nights where he just doesn't come home because he's working so late. And so, I mean, there will be 24, 48 hours where I just don't even see him and I'm doing it literally all by myself. So, the beauty about your situation is, hey, I'll talk to about it. Now, there's the experienced reality, but it's not like a shock. I guess the shock is, oh, this is what this really feels like. Or when you, we may have had different pictures, like when he said, I'm going to be really busy and you're like, okay, I know really busy. And then you're like, oh, you mean you're going to be working for 48 straight hours, right? Like so, there is some adjustments into the reality. But that also means you'll have, if he's working big law in the 512 area code, that means you'll have some resources to get some support. Right. And you're going to have to be able to deal with that innate. I don't want to throw this on you. What I hear often is, if I have to hire help, that somehow means that I wasn't enough. Or if I have to figure out how to get three or four or five or six women to come over on Tuesday mornings and Thursday mornings, and they bring their kids and we just talk or we just stare off into space, whatever. If I have to work that hard to have friends, I've never had to do that in college and never do that in grad school and never had to do that in undergrad, like in high school. But now I have to work that hard. Then it must be something wrong with me. And it's you taking those two lies head on and saying, what do I actually want and what do I actually need in terms of support and care here? So tell me what's the story beneath the story that's going on inside your heart and mind when it comes to you acknowledging, I'm real, real lonely here. Yeah, I think the part that's the hardest part for me is that the extra stuff that comes with it. I realize that you have to kind of work and play with the partners and there's things that come with that, like these events and such. And I think I find myself at home essentially drowning with two kids. And I see my husband like not doing that. I know his job is very taxing, but he's also going to these nice centers that are going on in these events. And it almost feels like I'm jealous in a sense that I am sitting here with these two kids by myself, just trying to stay afloat. And it's like, I'm just trying to stay afloat. And I'm sitting here with these two kids by myself, just trying to stay afloat. And it's like he's not there. He's not a part of it. He's not seeing it. And he's living this whole other life that doesn't even feel like he's really married and is like a father most of the time. Okay, so I want you to have that conversation. Yeah. Because that's the thing beneath the thing. By the way, you're right to feel jealous. That doesn't make you a bad person. If you feel jealous that five nights a week, he's at a big five-star restaurant, whining and dining clients, or the nights he's not whining and dining clients, he's having a celebration dinner because they won the case or they got the new, like whatever. You're right to feel jealous when you're covered up and throw up and you just miss the guy that you married. Yeah. And he comes home for conjugal visits and then goes back out into the world and where he's dressing up in suits and going to fancy plays. You'd kind of be nuts if you weren't jealous of that. Yeah. Because also in the past, in law school, you were the date to the barrister's ball, right? Like those were all with you. Yeah. And so you're right to feel jealous. The thing I'll challenge you on is already starting out of the gate, keeping secrets. Mm-hmm. And already saying, okay, we had this plan and this plan is killing me. And I want to be honest about, is this the right plan moving forward? And so it's being able to have that open dialogue. And you might find if you broach that conversation that he exhales and says, I really thought I wanted to do big law, but I miss my wife. I'm not being a dad. Or he might find that the firm could care less if he goes to all five dinners, five nights a week. He thinks he has to to make partner, but he could sit down and have coffee with a few of the partners and be like, no, do you know who cares about those stupid things? Yeah. Go home and be with your family. Yeah, I think that's the biggest thing is that he feels like he has to go to those. Like he has a hard time saying no. But I think the thing that hurts my feelings the most is that he says no to coming home to help us like at all, but he can't say no to them. And I think that's where the issue is lying, especially with the newborn. Like I very fresh postpartum and, you know, like I could use for sure some help, especially with our toddler. And it's like I'm being told no, I can't do that. And, you know, it's even simple things that's making it really difficult. You'll need to have that hard conversation. Yeah. Sooner rather than later. Because at the end of the day, you're, you phrased it beautifully. I'm telling you, I need you. They're telling you they want you. And you're choosing them. And he might rightfully say, hey, we knew this was coming. We agreed upon this. And you're saying you're right. We did. And I feel like things might have changed. Have you said the words, I want you home other than I need you home? Yeah. Yeah, I have. We've actually had quite a few conversations about it. And it, I think it's a little bit of a, a little bit of a, like there's small changes, but then it just like kind of falls back into the same song and dance. And, you know, I'm, I'm very understanding when it comes to him actually working and understanding of these events and things that he has to go to. But it's, it's like there's almost a fork in the road of whenever it's time to kind of come home or it's staying out. And it, it seems like, like our life at home is so chaotic that it's just easy for him to not come home. And so he just chooses to not. And that's where I would look him in the eye and say, you're, you're not fulfilling your chief responsibility. Yeah. And I mean, he's admitted that that he's been doing that, but he also isn't changing it. Like he's acknowledging that it's not right and that it's wrong, but it's also still happening constantly. Does he have some men in his life that he trusts and he listens to? No, unfortunately, he, he kind of doesn't really have the best relationship with his family and a lot of the people that he works with, I probably wouldn't say are the best of influences. So I guess the scary, terrifying question that I often ask folks is, what are you going to do now? I don't know. Because it's a hard, you use again, your choice of language is really instructive. It's really excellent. You're at a fork in the road. You said, Hey, I need you here. And I'm actually supporting how hard you're working in the crazy hours of a first couple of years in big law. I'm really supporting of that. But then there's the, Hey, we're all going for drinks. And that's when you could come home and be a present husband and dad and you choose now. And he said, you're right. I do choose the other. No. Right. It's not like you've brought something to his attention. He doesn't know. Right. Yeah. We've had a lot of, a lot of conversations about it. It definitely hasn't, hasn't not been talked about. Would he go see somebody with you? I don't know. We've, we've talked about it before. But I, I mean, I, I see a therapist that I've seen for a while. And I've asked him to, and he seems to be kind of indifferent about it. And it seems like it just kind of gets brushed off. Okay. The more you're talking, the more I'm getting the sense that your marriage isn't pretty significant peril. Yeah. Am I right or am I? It feels like it. Okay. Yeah. It feels like it here. Okay. Have you sat down and asked him if he still wants to be married to you? I did. We did. We had a very, a very long talk about it. And he, he says yes, but it feels like his, his words are great. But it's just like the actions that aren't following through with those words that is making it really hard. Well, the next layer, behavior is a language, right? And by the way, you're married to a wordsmith. I know. All right. And so, so the next layer is what are the actions that are going to, they're going to back up your statements. And so I think the next conversation is, and it can be leading somewhere. But the next conversation is, hey, you said you wanted to be married to me. I've spent some time thinking, here is a roadmap of what love looks like, what our marriage looks like in the next six months with two kids, two and under, with a postpartum wife, with an exhausting chaotic household. Here's what this looks like. Are you in or are you out? And it's almost like, I've been on the other side of some attorneys when I started answering a question and they'll say like, no, no, no, stop. It's not what I asked you. Did you send this text on and you're like, yes, I did. All right. And so it's getting to that level of I'm writing these things down. Will you be a part of our married household like this? But the phrase behavior is a language. You said all the right words. That's cool. I'm putting the, I'm basically, I'm putting you on notice to use their language. I'm putting you on notice. Here's what being married in this particular season looks like. And it's commendable that you're looking, that you are understanding. It's not like you need to be home at five o'clock. That's unreasonable for that job, right? You know that. Right. But you don't have to go out for drinks every night. And it's getting, it's finding those, and sometimes you do. I hate to say that sometimes you do. Like sometimes there's a client and you got to get like, dude, this just came up. I got to go as part of it. Right. I was on call for, for 20 years. And so my wife lived with that. It wasn't fun. It wasn't great, but it's, yeah, you've, I mean, I hate to say this. I don't know success in your marriage outside of a marriage counselor for both of you together because there's, there's got to be some harder conversations. And I don't know without talking to him, I don't know if he just doesn't like it. If he feels like home is a failure factory and he can be more successful there. If he's uncomfortable, he's done half to, like, I don't know what's in his heart and mind and you don't either. But you've had all the preliminary conversations that I would recommend somebody have, which tells me, yeah, your marriage is at a precipice and you're feeling that. And I think the important thing is, is to turn the lights on and stop the, stop the music. And here is what I'm asking of you. I need you home four nights a week. I need you home five nights a week. When you come home, I need help with the following things. I need you just to hold me on the couch for 45 minutes. That's it. Like, what are those things to look like? And having the deeper questions is big law right for our family. And anybody who gets married has to know what's right for me goes to second place when you say till death to his part and then you start bringing kids into it. You become second place, third place. It's like, but this is what I want. Okay, but this is what we, this is the set of responsibilities you took on when you married This is a set of responsibilities you took on when we created humans together. And it might look different than we had it mapped out. But I think you're at a place where hard, hard conversations or deep conversations aren't going to be as much. There's not going to be a lot of utility there. It is, here's a set of actions. Are you in or out? Let's have that conversation. I wish you the absolute best. This is a tough, tough situation and it's a tough situation for him too. I know that also. Thanks for the call sister. I don't feel like I was very much helped to you other than to clear it up and say you're not crazy. I don't think he's crazy, but y'all have some really hard reckoning. No more hard conversations, but some hard reckoning about our actions going to be a part of what happens next. Thanks for the call sister. We come back, a woman asks how to cope with her in-laws weaponizing religion just to create conflict. I'm excited to tell you about Cove. Cove is a smart, affordable home security company with one mission. Help you protect your family for less than a dollar a day. And the holidays are here and they can make your home a target for thieves and porch pirates. And Cove cameras will stream live video and audio directly to your control panel and your phone. So you can see and hear what's happening in real time. That clarity and control over your home, especially while you're traveling, can give you peace of mind. Cove lets you customize your security system with a quick online quiz. 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I'm not too bad. Not too bad. All right, so what's up? So I have been married for, oh gosh, eight years and together with my husband for a little longer than that. And when we first got together, I actually joined him at church kind of, I don't know, admittedly as a pleasing way to kind of join my way into the family. And you're young, you gotta get there. Wow, that was well said Jennifer. Not that I don't believe, not that I don't believe, but their church specifically and that specific synod of sorts was very evangelical and I found out through experience that that is the absolute pillar of the family, at least in my in-law's eyes. My husband grew up that way. His dad was the principal of the school type of the church. So he grew up completely educated within the church and came out on the side saying, well, you know, I believe but not for me. And so a lot of this has caused a lot of a lot of schism in the family and they kind of come back together sort of and kind of repair and move on. But the move on is, you know, tied together with a lot of grudges. And so the latest schism has lasted about three years. And it's created a lot of favoritism in the family and it's very evident to now my nieces and nephews who are all kind of getting aware of what grandma and grandpa like them more than us. Okay. So how do I, you know, stand here in the middle? We don't have any children, but you know, being surrounded by the whole family where we're on one side and they are on another. How do I, you know, not fix it? But leave the field. Leave the field. Yes. Yes. No, I'm saying leave the field. Oh, listen, like, I'll say this as directly as I can. His parents have made it very clear they don't want y'all around. They don't want y'all in their life unless you worship as they want you to worship, where they want you to worship and how they want you to worship. And unless you want to play, you know, wear their suit that comes out of their closet, they don't want to be in relationship with you. Period. Yeah. And there's a deep grief that comes with that sort of cutting you off. Yeah. And most of the time, the people please are in us, the solver in us. And if your husband grew up in that world, he's been people pleasing his whole freaking life. It's, there's a sense of responsibility to make sure the adults in our life are okay. I remember one of the greatest, like only in retrospect, one of the greatest gifts my dad gave me is when he quit being a policeman and took over a job as a minister at our big church, he said, I'm going to be your minister now and I'm your dad. And so you're not going to be able to hear me. You need to find some men that you trust. And of course, he can, he helped point me in the direction, in that, in that direction. And I remember him saying this, I don't care where you go to church, I just want you to go somewhere. And that was, I, at the time I blew it off because I was, I don't know, 10 or 12 or whatever. And I was like, okay, like, you know, but in retrospect, that may have cost him his job that he was a minister somewhere, his kid went somewhere else. But it was a bigger deal to him that I find a place where I could plug into. And I found a group of people just to do life with, then it was him being right. You get what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. Your husband doesn't have that. He has the opposite. You will do as I say, and the weapon here, the, the, is my relationship with you. Good God almighty. Yeah. A breaks my heart, dude. Yeah. And funny enough, you know, joining his family, their family to me was the stable ones. I came from a really chaotic family, you know, drugs and alcohol abuse and, and, you know, emotional neglect and all of that kind of stuff. And so seeing his family, you know, in my eyes, looked on the outside very stable. And you went and married your unfinished business. Indeed. I'm, I'm no, you know, I'm no worse off for it. I love the guy, but no, it's not that, but the way that we did it, your body recognized, oh, emotional manipulation, oh, control and power, oh addiction. It just was came in a different bottle. Yeah. I'm home. Yeah. I'm home, right. And your body goes, ah, here we are in your mind's like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's tough too. Cause I, I'm the only one in the family, at least his family, um, actually, and mine as well, who's been through therapy and actually got help for, you know, how the feeling and Jennifer, why would you go to therapy? You just need to pray harder. Duh. I can't tell you how many times I've heard that. I know. I know. Listen, here, here's the brass tax truth. He has to make the call. Yeah. That, that call is going to be informed by a wife who loves him deeply and will be his ride or die, come hell or high water, but he's going to have to make that call. Otherwise, if you sever the relationship with his family, there's going to be a wedge between the two of you. However small or thin or invisible it feels, it will be there forever. Yeah. And the second thing is, is y'all have to exhale and grieve the fact that his parents would rather, y'all continue to be elementary school kids and do exactly what they say whenever they say it, then they would prefer to be in relationship with you. Yeah. And that's not how parents should be, but that's what you got. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. It's, it's heavy just, you know, with, with that because I crave the unity. And so I put it on my, my shoulders for a long time, especially because we were in the middle in here in both sides. Not necessarily just his parents, but I mean, his, his sister as well. He has a couple of sisters and, and one sister is in their boat still and is the favorite because, you know, she's kind of the, she's the oldest and she's, you know, done everything right, you know, according to their book. And, and you know, here we are, what they would probably refer to as joining the dark side with the other sister who, you know, they won't even tell they're coming into town from out of state. So it's, yeah, it, it, it breaks my heart to watch too, just from my need to know for you to say, it's the same question you've been haunted by since you were a little girl. Why, dad, why, why would you choose to drink over me? Yeah. And you married into, why would you choose, why would you choose to be manipulative and um, discontinue relationship unless I sing and dance exactly as you want me to sing and dance. Yeah. It's the same exact question. It's just got a different suit on it. Yeah. And so the heartbreaking work is finding yourself in the exact same toxic, destructive mass and then asking yourself that scary question, okay, who are we going to be now? What are we going to do now? We're going to have a different kind of Thanksgiving, a different kind of Christmas this year and we're inviting younger sister. And that's great. Yeah. And we're going to be sad that it's not what we wanted it to be, which is one big happy family because half of our family has chosen to not be in relationship with us. Yeah. And by the way, if they called, I would say, hey, they're choosing, if that's the boundary you're drawing, either they go to this church and worship at our building or they don't get to come, I would say, okay, you made your bed. Yeah. Like you put the cards on the table and they called, right? Or you made your bed and they called. It's like, it just stinks. It's such a dumb, unnecessary, heartbreaking fracture of a relationship. I agree. And yet here we are. Yeah. And there's something about saying out loud, your dad doesn't want to be in relationship with you. My father-in-law doesn't like me. Yeah. It's the worst. For sure. And also, I think for you, it's got to feel worse. Tell me if I'm wrong, but when you were playing along, man, those hugs felt good, didn't they? Actually, they don't hug. Okay. Because hug leads to sex and sex leads to dancing, right? Actually, kind of, yeah. Yeah, dude. I mean, there's just some deep grief here. And after the grief is asking yourself, okay, brass tacks, what does church look like for us? Brass tacks, what does the holiday season look like for us? Because we can't have nothing. We've got to have community. We've got to have people. So if our family is asking or telling us we don't want to be in relationship with you, okay, we've got to be in relationship with somebody. So is there an island of misfit toys that we can have a great Thanksgiving with? Or my family and my wife's family, they just live 17 hours away. And so our Easter is the best. You know who comes? The craziest group of people you can possibly imagine. People sleep on the couch, people like tattoo artists, she comes, like musicians come, bankers come, higher education. It is the most random group of people. And I love it. Love it. Single people come, kids, but we had to do that. Because we backed up and moved away from everybody. And so it's creating the reality. Here's the reality. I got to deal with it. I hate this for you, Jennifer. I hate it for everybody going through this holiday season, whether it's around religion, whether it's around anything, which is you seeing or dance, or as your parent, I'm taking my relationship and I'm using it as a weapon to cut you off. I hate that, man. I hate that. I hate that. I hate that. I'll tell you, aging parents with young adult kids I've never met somebody in the last stages of their life, ever, not one time. Have I ever met somebody in the last stages of life say, I'm really glad I cut my kid off over issue X, Y or Z, who they voted for, who they were dating, what church they went to. I've never heard somebody heading into the last years or weeks or months of their life say, I'm so glad I cut them off ever. I have heard repeatedly, man, if I could have five more minutes. Aging parents, it's your move. When we come back, a woman asks, how do we talk about Santa with their kids? This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. The holidays are a time of traditions, both good ones and not so good ones. The holidays can be busy, stressful, and for many of us, lonely. And that's why it's a great time to reflect on what the good traditions are during our holiday season and the traditions that aren't so great. And if you need to dig into some of those not so great traditions, therapy can give you space to reflect on the old traditions and create new ones. If you're thinking about therapy, I recommend BetterHelp. They've served over 5 million people globally with an average rating of 4.9 stars out of 5. BetterHelp is totally online, so it's easy to fit into your busy holiday schedule to get started. Just answer a few simple questions and they'll connect you with a licensed therapist who fits your needs. If it's not the right fit, you can change therapists at any time for no extra cost. This month, during the chaos, start a new tradition by taking care of you. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Deloni to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloni. All right, let's go to Richmond, Indiana. Talk to Bethany. What's up, Bethany? Hi. Oh my gosh, I'm so excited. I'm excited to talk to you. Hey, you just heard how terrible I am at this job. We had to edit this stuff in. I don't know why my mouth isn't working today. I can't make full words and sentences, so we'll try to get through this one the best I can. Okay, you're not a Hoosier. Okay, good, exactly. All right, what's up? Okay, so I was wondering what age do... Hold on, hold on, before you ask that. I've got to give a disclaimer here, okay? Okay. Kelly, let me know. Give me a heads up on this call because I didn't make a disclaimer in the past when I've had these conversations, and I have people who are listening to the show and their kids are in the room. So parents, we're talking about Santa. If you got kids in the room, spoiler alert. Either get your kids out of the room or you can just let me do it for you, and then you got to clean up the mess that I'm not to make. All right, Bethany, go for it. Okay, so I have a 11-year-old son and a 21-year-old son. The 11-year-old was a surprise blessing that we didn't expect. Surprise! Yes, it was a very big surprise, but anyway, the 11-year-old still 100% believes. The 21-year-old is telling me that I need to tell him that he went through this as a kid, and he thinks it's horrible and all these things, and I'm thinking to myself, why not let the kid be a kid? Yeah. So that was my question. Fifth grader? Because apparently I've traumatized my oldest. Fifth grader? He is in fifth grade, yes. Why does your oldest say he was traumatized? Did he find out the hard way on the playground? He found out when the tooth fairy was taking care of her aging ill parent and forgot to leave tooth fairy money. So, I know that tooth fairy should got me every time. I have went to great lengths to keep this secret. Like, I took a picture of him with the elf, and then I erased it. I have tried so hard to keep this. Okay, so let me ask you. What does this story get you? Get me? Yes. Honestly, I want him to have memories. He's got memories. He's got a great mom. He's got a crazy older brother. He's got great memories. What is the perpetuating this story? What does that get you? I didn't have all this growing up. I didn't have memories. I remember sitting on my couch on Thanksgiving eating a tostino's pizza. There we go. And I don't want that for my kids ever. They will never have that. You know why? Because they got an awesome mom. Well, thank you, but... Anyway... No, no, no. You can't hear that, and I'm going to keep saying it until you hear it. Your kids have an awesome mom. Thank you. I've got my best. You're doing a great job. You're changing a family tree from the inside. I mean, you're doing amazing stuff. But here's the hard thing, though. Okay, I said a nice thing. I'm going to say a hard thing. Okay. Be very careful about using your child's experience for your inner hurt. Okay. Because then your kid can become a Xanax for your pain, and that's not their job. No, it's not. Put me in his little face light up. I know. It's the best. It's magic. It's magic. And then, you know, when they find out, it's just like... Okay. Except... I've done a lot of things not right. I've had to explain jokes that I probably shouldn't have made in front of my kids in a way. Like, I haven't done things right. I will say I think I hit this one out of the park. Okay. And can I tell you why? Absolutely. Because I didn't wait until it was this moment. And by the way, fifth grade, he's going to get blown up this year. I can guarantee it. Guarantee it. I don't know. My kid was in sixth grade almost, you know, like... It's different times. Every kid didn't have a smartphone. Okay. Mine's don't either. My oldest, that's because he's 21. But your youngest doesn't, but all his friends do. Okay. That's a true point. The conversation with my son was something like... I don't even remember how young he was. He was way younger than 11, maybe six or seven or eight. I believe deeply that childhood has been robbed of magic. And so, I love Halloween for them. I love Santa for them. And people always ask me when I say, don't lie to your kids. What about Santa Claus? Dude, it's totally a different thing. Right? So, I believe in magic for kids. I love it. The outdoors, the woods, forts, like when I come home and all the couch cushions are off and they've made a fort, I'm all in. And blankets, whatever. I believe in childhood magic because I think it's been stripped away by stupid adults. And there came a moment. I remember the conversation. My son said something like, dad, I'm going to ask for something crazy for Christmas. And if I don't get it, I don't know, I'm going to pray for something. And if God doesn't give it to me, then I'm just going to ask Santa for it. And I was like, okay, we probably should have this conversation. Right? He's starting to conflate the two. And so, here's what I did. This is the silliest Taster's Choice moment and I don't care. I said, hey, I need you to meet me in the bed of my pickup truck out in the driveway. And he looked at me kind of weird and I said, we're going to have a big grown up conversation. And he said, okay. And so, here's what I did. I set up a totally brand new environment. We've never done that there. And I told him, I'm inviting you in to an adult world just for a minute. And the sense he got, he stood six feet tall. Because it was, I set it up as I'm now grabbing your hand and pulling you into another world that you don't even know exists. And it's called grown up world. And it's not as fun, but it can be awesome. And I trust you enough with a hard conversation. Okay. And so, he sat in there and we had the, we talked it out. I said, there's a story of Santa Claus. You know about Santa Claus? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You asked me one time how does Santa Claus fit down the chimney? You asked me one time, how did the reindeer get to every house? And then I explained it. But I set up a context where he didn't come home and find out mom and dad were liars. I invited him into level two of the world into a developmentally appropriate conversation. And then hilariously, at the very end, I said, you had any questions when you asked any question you want. And he felt very special. And then he goes, tooth fairy. And I go, Nope. And he goes, he started laughing. I mean, he was a young kid. But the way he was like, tooth fairy. And I was like, Nope. And he just started cracking up. But I was like, that's the way adults love, we don't get to play anymore. This is how we get to re experience childhood. And he was like, Yeah, that's awesome. And then when he had the exact opposite reaction that your son has, because he had a sister come along six years later, and he kept it magic for her. Right. You get what I'm saying? Yeah. And so if you, oh, man, if, if you're moving this along down the road, because you're scared of the conversation, or you want to avoid it as long as possible, because you want to make sure that your kid doesn't ever feel like you felt rest assured, they never will. Your kid so loved. It's amazing. He is loved. Has your kid ever had pop charts on the couch for Thanksgiving? Oh, yeah. Oh, no, no. All right. So let's, let's, let's, I mean, our family's small, but I grew up with my grandparents. So my cousins were all 15 years older than me, you know, so. So let's traffic in reality. Let's feel our feelings. But then let's ask, is this true? And what's true is no, my son has a very different experience than I had. He is loved. Okay. He knows mystery and excitement of fun. And before I let him just stumble into this and discover it, I'm going to take his hand and he's going to walk with me into this next thing. Is he going to be heartbroken? Maybe. Or he might be completely excited. He'll be heartbroken if he finds out on his own that mom and dad hadn't been telling him the truth. What else have they been telling me? Yeah, I love that. He might be completely energized. I don't know. My, my n equals one and my, or my daughter had this various, I did the same thing with my daughter and she did the, she was like that too. So I've got two examples of I'm before that you find out, I'm going to invite you into a new kind of magic, which is adulthood. It's kind of rad. It's also kind of a bum deal, but it's kind of rad. All right. And I'm going to invite you into this world. Just for a minute and then you got to go back to being a kid. But there was no heartbreak and those two, but I controlled the environment, made it special, made them feel bigger than they really were, treated them with dignity and respect, told them the truth, all those things. I always want my kids to, I want my kids to discover something out in the world and think, I don't think I can bring this home. Or why did my parents tell me this? And so this is just one of those moments when you're going to have to have the conversation. You're going to have to have a conversation about sex. I'd rather you create a, like, natural conversation in the house and they always know they can have conversations. They're going to want to know questions about your mom and dad. That's going to be tough. I'm just not going to hide things, but I'm also not going to rob my kids of magic either. And I don't know. I love the story of Santa. I think it's fun. I think it's one of the last things we got left. And, but there does come a moment. And fifth grade, it feels about right for me. I mean, it feels a little bit at the top end of right. I think I went earlier. Kelly, how old were you guys when you ruined your kid's childhood? My son was probably about fourth grade, but we handled it every time he would ask. We would say, well, what do you think? That's how we always handled it. And then I remember one year, he said, I think I know. And I said, well, do you want to talk about it? He said, not yet. He wasn't ready. And then the next year he asked again and I said, well, what do you think? And he said, I don't think he's real, but we have a special needs child in our house, an adult who still believes and we brought him in on, and I think you can do that with siblings. Yeah, we brought him and he's, he helps us now do that and he loves it. But yeah, that was always our answer. Well, what do you think? You know, so kind of letting them lead the conversation. But yeah, third, second, third, fourth, fifth, I mean, kids are, every kid's different, but don't let your heartbreak dictate how you think his feelings are going to go. And you know your kid. So you'll know how to make it special for me in Texas is the, it was the back of a truck in the bed of a truck. I don't know. A great question. And if y'all are listening to this and you didn't let your kids out of the room and they just found out Santa's not real, I told you so. We'll be right back. I travel the country for a living. And if you've seen me on stages, if you've seen me at comedy clubs, wherever you've seen me, you've almost surely seen me wearing poncho shirts. I love my poncho shirts and it's cold outside now. So I can wear my favorite poncho shirts, the denim's and flannels poncho's performance denim has that soft broken in feel with a little bit of stretch. It's like you've worn it a thousand times, but it still looks amazing. And poncho flannels like the one I'm wearing right now come in original or Western styles and they are guaranteed to be the softest shirts you own. Somehow they're both durable and comfortable. Poncho shirts come in slim or regular fit and they're built for real life. I wear them on stages. I wear them to church. And I wear them when I'm out working in the woods. They are ready for whatever life throws at them. When you're shopping for the men and boys in your life this holiday season, go to ponchooutdoors.com slash D'Loni and get them hooked up. Sign up with your email and you'll get 10 bucks off your first order and tell poncho you heard about them right here on this show. And if you're into the social media thing, take a picture of the men in your life wearing poncho and tag me and tag poncho. Hurry right now and get your order placed to get free shipping before the holidays. That's ponchooutdoors.com slash D'Loni. All right we're back with a money and marriage question. This is a good one. This is an anonymous question that I received at the money and marriage retreat. We got one, by the time this comes out the November one will already have happened right? Yeah and we've got one limited tickets if it's not sold out in February, Valentine's Day weekend here in Nashville. All right here is a question from the anonymous question box. My husband always said he would get a vasectomy when we were done having kids. Now that we're done he says he won't get one. How do I get him to follow through with his our plan? I mean there's a nuclear option here which is when you take care of your end of the deal you can have my end of the deal. I shouldn't have said it like that. I mean hey we made an agreement. I'm not taking the pill anymore. We're not using condoms anymore and so shops closed until you keep up. I mean you can play that game. The deeper probably more realistic conversation is why. Why have you said I'm not going to do this anymore? Is it something because of bad information that you got on Instagram that like if you men who get vasectomies don't have to start stupid stuff like that that's just simply nonsense and not true or is it a fear of going into the doctor's office and having someone chip chop chip chop chip chop and if that's the case you can just have him go with you to your next annual and you can see what you go through all the time and he can get over himself. Or I mean it's getting to the okay you have gone back on what you said you're going to do. I'm asking I'm being curious instead of judgmental. I want to see you and I want to know you. Why? What are your big concerns? And let's have that hard conversation because I think there's two fold here. One I don't want to get pregnant again is what it sounds like here. We've agreed we don't want any more kids and yet we got a live we've got a loaded weapon here and so I want to protect ourselves and the second thing is you're going back on what you said you didn't keep your word and maybe that's the second time third time tenth time he's made a plan that he didn't follow through on and so let's get to the deeper issue here and have the harder conversation the thing behind the thing. But for whatever it's worth every single guy I know that's got a second to me has given it a 10 out of 10 100 out of 100 hashtag just say it. Thank you so much I love you guys stay out of trouble bye