Your favorite true crime series, 48 Hours, is back for a new season, and so is the official aftershow podcast, Postmortem. Every Monday, listen to a new episode of 48 Hours, and then join me, 48 Hours correspondent Anne-Marie Green, on Tuesday for a new episode of Postmortem, where we bring you a closer look at each case. This case was eye-opening on so many different levels. Follow and listen to 48 Hours on the free Odyssey app, or wherever you get your podcasts. Before we begin, just a trigger warning. The following episode does include mentions of graphic physical violence and suicide. So please listen with care. Hey, so, uh, I think you're in a department, okay? So I have to read this stuff to you. Okay, you understand? All right. On June 17, 2013, almost two months after Chip Northup and Claudia Mopin were found dead inside the safety of their bedroom, investigators asked the police officer who worked at Daniel Marsh's school to bring the teenager into the station. You have the right for me to style it. Do you understand? Yes. Anything you say, maybe it's against you in court. Do you understand? Yes. Daniel would be questioned alone. Even though he had just turned 16, California law states that minors can be questioned without parents present if law enforcement has reasonable belief that they were involved in a crime. At no point did Daniel request his parents' presence. When the officer read him his Miranda rights, Daniel waived his right to an attorney. And then, Detective Ariel Panetta began the interview. Daniel was a little scruffy with long blonde hair, thin and wiry. He looked like a regular teenager, a little jittery and awkward. Yes, where are you? I'm going into my junior year. Officer Panetta told Daniel why they had asked him to come to the station. You may know this, but we have an investigation going on in Davis in regards to some murders and information indicated. You may know about it or you have some information as well. So that's why I'm here to ask you about that. Okay. Okay. But instead of questioning Daniel about the murders, Detective Panetta started with the basics, school, friends, family. Daniel told the detective that his life was stressful. How have you been able to deal with some of that stress? Honestly, I smoke pot. Yeah. Like, I don't do it for any other reason than to deal with my depression and my anxiety and all the s*** that happens. It's just kind of, you know, a little bit of a relief temporarily. Like, for a little bit, I can just relax. Everything's all right right now, you know? It was actually Daniel who first brought up Chip and Claudia. He was telling Detective Panetta about his parents' divorce. I know, like, they were either next door or within, like, a few houses of there. Daniel told the detective that within a week after the murders, his father had moved out of the neighborhood. Well, it freaked him out, you know. I mean, you wake up and you find, like, the people next to you are dead. It's like, wow, that could have been us, you know. I guess it's just kind of scary in a way. It's spooky. You want to just get out of there. That was the perfect opening for Panetta. And so you do know about the murders that were investigating you? Yeah. I mean, with Davis, when something like that happens here, it's like, holy crap. Everybody knows about it. Here's about it. Tell me what you know about it. I think there were like an elderly couple or something. I know that somebody broke in and stabbed these two people, but I don't really know anything else. But as law enforcement officers questioned Daniel over the next five hours, they learned he knew quite a bit more than that. I'm 48 Hours correspondent Erin Moriarty, and this is 15 Inside the Daniel Marsh Murders. Episode 4, The Unlikely Suspect. What was your reaction when you heard that the main suspect was a 15-year-old boy? It shocked me. Special Agent Chris Campion worked in the FBI's Behavioral Unit. The Davis Police Department had asked for his help the night before their sit-down with Daniel Marsh. About an hour into the interview, Campion opened the door to the room. I walked into the interview room and introduced myself and sat down and started talking to him. Hi. Hi. You must be Daniel? Yeah. I'm Chris Campion. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. I'm from the FBI. I spoke with Special Agent Campion in 2018, five years after he questioned Daniel. Daniel was no ordinary suspect, and I wanted to hear more about how he approached the interview. We had pretty good evidence, probable cause evidence, but certainly not enough to arrest him there and then. And your then hope is to get him to admit what he did. Of course, that's our goal. At the same time, though, teams are searching his mother's house where he lived most of the time, searching his father's house where he was at some of the time and some other locations that they were trying to gather other evidence at the same time. Campion started the conversation by asking Daniel about his family. Dad and Mom split when you were pretty young. Yeah. And then Mom basically left, abandoned you or your family? Yeah, for like three or four months. and she just kind of randomly turned up again. Campion then got Daniel to confirm something his friend Alvaro had already told the police. Daniel said that his parents divorced after his mother had an affair with a woman. He was actually my kindergarten teacher. Wow. Yeah. In the interview, you're not just asking him about the crime at all. You're starting just talking to him. What's the purpose of the beginning of the interview? Well, in any law enforcement interview or any interview, you try to get some rapport going to make the person feel at ease, right? And so that's what we try to do in these cases. And, of course, during that time, you get to know the person a little bit. I like to try to drop a few hints and some themes that I might come back to later on. One of those themes Campion wanted to pursue was trauma. He guessed that Daniel might relate to hearing about how people struggle, like Daniel did, with mental health. Doing the kind of work that I do, there's, I see a lot of people who have had lives that are just devastating. Devastated by all sorts of different things. And the refuge is the key. And we all do that I mean from combat veterans in Afghanistan and Iraq who come back and they have these nightmares and they haunted PTSD and stuff PTSD, right? We see those and we see them do just some horrible things because they just want the pain to stop. They need the refuge. They need some place to go where they can feel something besides what they're feeling. Does that make sense to you? Yeah, it's a way to escape, get some temporary relief. Right. Temporary relief from the hell that they're living in. Yeah. Does that sound kind of familiar to you? Yeah. Campion spoke gently with Daniel and thought he had struck a chord with the teenager. Daniel perked up as Special Agent Campion talked about the psychology of criminals and his mission in law enforcement to heal people. And not necessarily just the victims, but the people who do these horrendous things, what the public perceives as the horrendous things. They agreed that people might do horrible things, but that doesn't make them horrible people. That's not what they planned on for their lives, right? But why did you get there? How did you get there? And I ask them, you know, and they're sometimes very honest. And they say, Chris, it's just, I can't not do it. I can't not have it. It's what I think about all the time. Something like a form of a CD. It's an obsession, for sure. And it's a compulsion because they can't not do it. Campion's approach to questioning fascinated me. I asked him where he was going with it. Well, the biggest theme with Daniel that I suspected is that he didn't feel like anybody else could understand what was going on in his head. That he thought that he was unique, that nobody else felt like this. And so I tried to reassure him that I had talked to other people who have had these kind of very dark thoughts and fantasies. and that I wasn't going to look at him like he was an evil, terrible person, that I could understand, try to understand what was going on in his interior life, in his thoughts. Daniel was opening up more and more. Campion learned that Daniel's father suffered from back and neck injuries. How does he get along? I mean, that's got to be constant pain. Yeah, not very well. It makes him pretty irritable. doesn't help with his temper, but he's on a lot of painkillers. Does he look like one of those guys that we have so many in our society right now, Dan, that just are kind of addicted, like Brett Favre, a football player? Yeah. Would you say that that's... I'd say that both of my parents are addicted to painkillers. According to Daniel, there was one point when he and his sister had to take care of their mom when she was diagnosed with a disease affecting the nerves in her face. She has fibromyalgia and trigeminal neuralgia. And she might have MS. They're not sure yet. Daniel coped with his parents' behavior, he said, by slowly trying to starve himself. Ultimately, he checked into an eating disorder clinic for 25 days. But after treatment, he still sought other ways to harm himself. At that point, Special Agent Campion leaned forward to have a closer look. Daniel extended his arm. for suicide attempts. Daniel told Campion that his parents never found out about those attempts on his own life. At the time of the police interview, Daniel had just turned 16. He had spent much of the conversation with Special Agent Campion discussing the many problems in his life. But he also told him that his outlook on life had started to improve somewhat when he began to take antidepressant and antipsychotic medication. Yeah, it got to the point where I actually wake up in the morning and I want to be alive, you know, like I want to experience what life has, you know. I mean, I'm 16. I've just started, got my whole life ahead of me. I experience all the things that they're already experienced. But Campion didn't see this revelation quite the same way Daniel did. He didn't think Daniel Marsh was actually getting better or healthier. Campion had reached a far more chilling conclusion. Well, to the casual observer, you might think he's just, you know, he's getting through his depression. And, you know, this is a good thing. He's looking forward to a life of doing positive things. In my mind, as I'm listening to that, I'm thinking he's looking forward to being a serial killer. You're actually thinking that. Yes. And why are you getting that? When I worked with the profilers on analyzing this case, and they've taught this to people such as myself, FBI agents out in the field for years, these people are fantasy driven. The people who commit a crime, like we saw in the crime scene photos of this double murder, they're motivated by a fantasy. Their interior life is completely obsessed with this fantasy that he has. And Daniel's, we find out later, is about death and mutilation and murder and gore. And so I knew that that was going on in his mind. So that's why I felt pretty confident he was talking about looking forward to his future as a criminal. This is what gave him pleasure. This is what gave him meaning in his life. This is what really thrilled him. And he found that and could leave the depression behind. What exactly are you guys trying to get from me? Daniel had asked, what exactly are you guys trying to get from me? Close to two hours into questioning, FBI Special Agent Campion revealed concerns over some of Daniel's online postings. People who are much more tech savvy than me because I'm just an old guy. I don't know anything about anything. Found this thing called Tumblr. And your Tumblr page, is that the right account? Yeah, yeah. Daniel had an account on Tumblr. It's a blogging platform where users can share videos, pictures, or text posts. Daniel's page was public, but under a pseudonym. On it, he had curated and saved a series of unsettling images. There were all sorts of images like Iraq war deaths, you know, roadside bomb aftermath, sniper killings, horror movies, you know, Hollywood type horror movie images, all mixed together, crime scene photographs from different types of violent crimes. So we had a little bit of everything, but it was the common theme was gore and violence and death. How unusual is that for a 16 year old? Very, I think, very unusual for any age, quite frankly. It's not a focus or an obsession with most people. Campion kept patiently probing. He needed to understand why Daniel focused so much on gore and violence. I'm wondering if it's a refuge for you, Dan. in a way kind of is um kind of dark screwed up sense of humor and actually a lot of that stuff makes me laugh when I see it Not a lot of stuff makes me laugh And so it's like, I like horror movies, and it's just the same thing as a horror movie, only it's real. And since I don't have any connection to whoever it happened to, it doesn't really bother me. Right. So it's kind of like the cutting. It's a feeling, right? Yeah. Seriously, like, it makes me feel something. And I've just always kind of been into darker stuff. Darker stuff that would spook most people seem to thrill Daniel. I don't know, it makes me feel like shocked. And I'm fascinated with anatomy. and so like you know you can see what happened to them and how warped their bodies are and just kind of fascinating to think like what could have done that how did that happen um why did that happen just how did this all come to play and I don't know. Sometimes they'll be like in a funny pose or something and they'll just look like stupid. So I'll like giggle at it. Finally, Agent Campion got to the point of the long interview and directly brought up why Daniel was being asked all these questions. The tips they received that he had killed Chip and Claudia. I don't want to hurt them. I mean, yeah, they piss me off sometimes, and they do some messed up shit, but I care about people. What were you thinking at that point? I mean, I found them kind of convincing. Did you at all? No, I did not at that point. I mean, what would the normal, innocent person do? Are you kidding me? You think I murdered those people? Absolutely not. That's ridiculous. You really think it's me? Something like that. The FBI agent had just confronted Daniel with the reason they had brought him in. They had evidence that Daniel committed the murders. Now Cambion had to get Daniel to admit it. I see you as a person who has a need. You have a big need. You have a need for a refuge, maybe more than anybody I've ever run across. And at age 16, just 16, that's remarkable. I don't know if that's a good thing, probably not, but it is an unusual thing to see, to meet a person like you, Dan, who has been through some of the things you have and has this need, the compulsion, I think the need to do something to feel. Well, yeah, but I don't hurt people. Over and over again, Daniel continued to deny that he could have killed anyone. I don't want to kill anyone. I don't want to hurt anyone. The person who did this will do it again. I have no doubt about it. They can't not. It's the inside of obsession. It's the compulsion. Well, then maybe that's where you'll find your guy. Sir, it's not me. Almost three hours had passed in the interview room. It was a standoff. Special Agent Campion stepped out of the room. Daniel cracked his knuckles and wiped his face with a tissue. When Campion returned, he was holding a DNA swab kit. I'd like to take your DNA to check it against things that have been found at the crime scene. Pretty much standard CSI kind of stuff. Any problem with that? No. Okay. Special Agent Campion asked Daniel to remove his boots. Then he again asked Daniel about the elderly couple who had lived near his father. Have you ever been inside of that house? No. either when they were there or when they weren't there. When? I went in once when we first moved there. Okay. What were the circumstances of that? Neighbors, meeting neighbors. It was just kind of a welcome thing, you know? Daniel said that he had been to Chip and Claudia's house once when his father first moved to the community. It was just a, quote, welcome thing. neighbors, meeting neighbors. But it turned out that Daniel knew quite a lot about Chip and Claudia's home. He had actually been invited inside with his father two years earlier. They showed us around. I went in the kitchen, in the living room, showed me their bedroom, showed me how to use their bathroom at one point. I think. That was a long time ago. He was planting the, in the contingency that there was DNA evidence there, he was planting the thought that maybe that could have been the reason. As another officer began opening the DNA swab packaging, Campion picked up Daniel's boots and began probing for more information. Anything unusual about these? I don't think so. You're lowering them around blood. Maybe a lot of nerve bleeds. So maybe they got on that. Okay. But if that was to be the case, it would be your blood. I didn't. We started talking about his boots, which I think he realized were the same boots that he had worn the night of the murders. And he realized he probably didn't clean those to remove all of the physical evidence. We started talking about his cell phone and the fact that cell phones are basically personal tracking devices. And, you know, we could track his movements on particular days and times. So those factors, I think, started weighing on him that he wasn't going to be able to talk his way out of this. And the walls started closing in on him. say that I didn't do this. That was the first sign that he was getting over that wall, that he was getting ready to talk to us about what really happened. If you want to help me, then don't ruin my life. Anything, send me to the psychiatric hospital. Backed into a corner, I'm f***ing either way, aren't I? Daniel Marsh seemed to see that he was trapped. Chris, were you really prepared for what he told you next? Um, no. Every time I look at someone in my mind I see flashes of images of me killing them in numerous ways in numerous horrible ways doing terrible things I can't help it. It's just what comes into my head when I see them. I don't want it to. I don't like that it does, but it does. Daniel admitted to Special Agent Campion that he had spent years thinking about killing people and that he made it a reality on that April night. When was the first time you started thinking about throwing these people down the street? That night, I just, I couldn't take it anymore. I had to do it. I lost control of my door. Okay. I just went into the street and wandered around for a while just looking for who would be, which house I should get, who would be a good victim. Daniel said he had walked through his father's South Davis neighborhood in the middle of the night. He scouted most of the street and checked out 50 homes. Everyone had done a good job of locking their doors and closing their windows until I got to their house. When he got to Chip and Claudia's home, he noticed that they had left a back window open. So he cut the screen and climbed through. I listened to her snore and I heard it. Went to their bedroom. I opened the door. And I just kind of stood over their bed watching them sleep for a few minutes. My body was trembling. I was nervous but excited and exhilarated. I was actually going to do it. I was there. It's finally happening. He said at that point, Claudia woke up. I just started stabbing shape over and over. I all stepped in the torso and I tried to get in. And then the husband woke up. And he looked over and just as he looked over, I stabbed him in the neck. And he didn't stop. Daniel Marsh stabbed both Chip and Claudia a combined 128 times. I made sure they were both dead, and then I just kind of kept stabbing their dead bodies. Don't know why, it just felt right. Okay. So even after they stopped moving? Even when they were dead, I wasn't done. Daniel admitted to all of it. I just kind of messed around. Messed around with them. Cut open both of their torsos around here. And in the moment, I put a phone inside of her, and I put a cup inside the guy. I don't know why. I really don't. Okay. And I, like, cut open her leg. I don't know why I did that either. I just kind of wanted to see. The horrific details Daniel shared match crime scene reports and the autopsies. But what he said afterwards was even more outrageous. I'm not going to lie, it felt amazing. How did it feel there? It felt great. It was pure happiness and adrenaline and dopamine, just all of it rushing over me. It's the most exhilarating, enjoyable feeling I've ever felt. Special agent Chris Campion never changed the tone of his voice during the hours-long interview. He never reacted visibly to anything Daniel Marsh said to him. But he later admitted to me that Daniel Marsh was the most dangerous suspect he had ever interviewed. With everything out in the open, Daniel was then willing to walk the police through where they could find the rest of the evidence. The ski mask he wore, his gloves, his pants. He had stashed it all in his mother's garage, but he kept the jacket. It's kind of a little memento and a constant reminder of what happened. so I can see it and kind of relive it. Daniel knew his admission of guilt was going to lead to an arrest and was curious about what would come next. Did you go get the death penalty? I don't know. That was kind of far-fetched. You were 15, right? Yeah, I was 15. and got psychological issues up the wazoo. There was one moment from Campion's interview with Daniel that especially shocked me. In my years of reporting on crime, I had never heard anything like it in a police interrogation. For the prosecutors building a case against Daniel, It was just one more example of how dangerous Daniel would be if he wasn't put behind bars for a long time. That's next time on 15 Inside the Daniel Marsh Murders. This series was reported by me, Aaron Moriarty. Alan Pang is our producer. Maura Walls is our story editor. And Jamie Benson is the senior producer. Megan Marcus is the vice president of podcast editorial for CBS. Special thanks to 48 Hours executive producer Judy Teigard, along with 48 Hours producers Judy Ryback, Stephanie Slifer, and Greg Fisher. From Goat Rodeo, this podcast was written and produced by Kara Schillen, Max Johnston, Jay Venables, Isabel Kirby McGowan, Megan Nadolsky, and Ian Enright. Additional reporting and recording by Kara Schillen Our executive producers at Goat Rodeo are Megan Nadolsky and Ian Enright Original theme and music by Hans Nelshi with additional music from Paramount Final mix by Rebecca Seidel Fendel Fulton is our fact checker Our production manager is Kara Schillen I'm Erin Moriarty If you're enjoying this show, be sure to give it a rating and review. It helps more people find it and hear our reporting. If you liked 15 Inside the Daniel Marsh Murders, check out the rest of our 48 Hours podcast by searching 48 Hours on your favorite podcast app. Thanks for listening. Your favorite true crime series, 48 Hours, is back for a new season, and so is the official aftershow podcast, Postmortem. Every Monday, listen to a new episode of 48 Hours, and then join me, 48 Hours correspondent Anne-Marie Green, on Tuesday for a new episode of Postmortem, where we bring you a closer look at each case. This case was eye-opening on so many different levels. Follow and listen to 48 Hours on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.
