Hour 1: More Impressed with Jokic and the Nuggets or Tatum-less Celtics?

From 30 for 30 podcasts. Brian Pata, senior defensive lineman from Miami, gunned down. The key to this case, it's Brian. An hour before he died, he was on the phone arguing what's about. This might be a hit. You want the truth. They just want a conviction. They're placing the arrest. We had a killer amongst us. Murder at the U. Listen now. Fleet run today between a couple of teams that are fixated and intent on making it into June. Joker, two on the shot clock, has to fire. Those usually go in just the way he drew it up. Brown with a jab and go on Murray. Spins, elevates, buy one, get one free. Jokic takes a three. Yeah! Eight-point lead for Denver, their big lead of the night. Jalen Brown, he traveled. Come on, man. And then they throw it away. KJ's got a breakaway. Doc right-handed. 11-0 run by Denver. Puts him up by 10. Boston, a season-low 84 points. Hello, everyone. Welcome to First Take. Shea Cornett here with you. Jay Williams. There's a lot of Jay Wills being thrown around last night with the Thunder. I feel like I'm constantly hearing the name Jay Wills just echoing in my head. We're here. This one is here, though, today. Good morning, Stephen A. Good morning, Brian Windhorst. How are you both today? What's going on? What's up, people? How y'all doing? Good morning, good morning. I can't see y'all yet. I can hear y'all, but I can't see y'all yet. But how is everybody doing? We're doing good. I can see you. He can't evaluate our outfits. That's right. I can see you in undisclosed locations. It's a crime. It's a crime. The producers slipped up, and you usually don't call them out like that. But how could you mess that up? I have to see what Jay Williams and Brian Wintors are wearing this morning. But I also want to say this, Jay, are you okay? I heard it's a bit cold there. You all right? I just want to make sure. I just want to make sure. I feel like you should kick off the day on a – well, obviously the day is starting off very positive for you, looking at the undisclosed location behind yourself. It looks very sunny and 80 degrees. Yeah, yeah, yeah. About that. About that. All right. Wasn't sunny and beautiful for the Celtics last night? Let's do that. They were in Denver to take on the Nuggets. And despite a relatively poor shooting performance from Nikola Jokic, he still had 30 points and 12 boards. Jamal Murray left early due to illness. Yet still, the Nuggets took care of the Celtics handily, winning 103-84. Joe Mazzula pulled his starters in the fourth quarter. And so now we ask the question, does last night's results say more about Boston or more about Denver? What do you think there, Wendy? Well, I have to say, obviously, I am not a player. But I covered many teams that played the second night of back-to-backs in Denver, covering West Coast trips in my career. And I know that it was exhausting for me to come to Denver and make the long drive in from the airport. For decades, this has been a trap situation. And Jalen Brown knew about it. Jalen Brown skipped the game in Phoenix two nights ago to more be ready. But I'm never going to fault an Eastern Conference team on the second night of a back-to-back in Denver. But this game was really important for the Nuggets. They really have been bleeding. And then not only that, but Jamal Murray got sick. He didn't make it through the first quarter. He had to basically go to the back because he couldn't stay out there. And this team's been struggling. And, you know, in the Western Conference, it's like a free-for-all. Like, you have a bad two weeks. You can slide from safely into home court in the first round all the way to the play-in. And Denver has just been playing really shaky defense for weeks. And to get a defensive-level performance like this, even facing a team that wasn't 100% in Boston, it was important. And, guys, I'm going to say, Nikola Jokic is not quite right right now. This is a guy who his numbers are always going to be great. He missed 17 shots last night. He went weeks on end this season where he didn't miss 17 shots in a week. He is still not back, in my view, from his injuries. And so to limp through victories over Eastern Conference contenders, however they get there, that's important for Denver. Crazy that you could not be right and have 30, 12, and 6. I know. I'm telling you he wasn't. I think it says something about how legitimately special he is. I don't know about you, Stephen A. I think last night for me it kind of confirmed a theme that I think I'm ready to openly state here with you, is that when I think about the top tier of the Western Conference and I think about the top tier of the Eastern Conference, I think there's a sizable gap. I honestly think, and I love the Detroit Pistons. Maybe the Cavs can get there. Maybe the Celtics can get there. Maybe the Knicks can get there. I would probably favor Detroit. But I think the Eastern Conference is playing for the consolation prize. I just firmly believe it. I feel like when I watch OKC, even though they're not fully healthy, now health can be a determinant of that. But obviously Denver, they played their best defensive game, I thought, of the season last night. I've heard Wendy talk about Victor Wimbayama potentially being the most dominant player we've had in the game since Shaquille O'Neal and the way they dip in with their young studs. Houston probably maybe could crack into the upper tier. But I look at those three teams, and I think one of those teams is going to win the NBA Finals. And I pretty much feel that it's a lock in my opinion. Now, maybe Detroit can scare somebody, but I still think the usage rate for Cade Cunningham is so high. I just wouldn't bet on that. I would bet on one of those three teams. That's what that game showed me last night. A couple of things. Number one, I can see y'all now. Finally, the producers have me on the air. I got to be the last one that people see on the I mean, it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. That's number one. But we're here. Number two, Wendy, you look like a politician. I approve that message. Jay, you know what? You're always looking sharp. But I'll talk to you about the shirt later. Number three, let's get down to what happened last night, OK? You know what we talked about. Listen, the Boston Celtics, when you're not making threes, you're a different team. We all know they live with it. They buy it or whatever. I know that Jalen Brown sat out last night's game. I'm sorry, sat out the game Tuesday in Phoenix. I get that part, knee contusion or whatever. I hope that's what it was, Wendy, because this brother is en route to possibly capturing league MVP honors. And I just hate when cats sit out on the road. Sit out one of the home games, one of the 41 home games you have during the year. When you're on the road, particularly out west, they only get to see you once a year. You want to put those talents on display. So I sincerely hope that Jalen Brown wasn't sitting down. just for rest. Damn it, Tide, play anyway. Because you're about to capture league MVP on us if you keep going the way that you're going. Last night was a derailment, we understand that. But they couldn't make shots, and that's really what this comes down to. Season-worst 35% from the field, 28% from three-point range. We know that the Boston Celtics are better than that, but last night was not the case. But I do agree with you, Jay. Last night's results, more about the Celtics or the Nuggets, it was more about the Nuggets reminding everybody you know, there's levels to this, okay? And when you have Jokic playing the way that he was playing, struggling the way that he did, but still finishing with 30 and 12, for crying out loud, that tells you what you need to know. There's no Aaron Gordon there. There's no Watson there right now. And so when you look at it from that standpoint and you see Jokic going out there, doing what he's doing, knowing that supremacy within the NBA really, really lies in the Eastern Conference. Do I believe Detroit could potentially make a run and win the championship? I think they're talented enough to pull it off, but they'd have to bring their A game in order to do that. We all believe that the Eastern Conference is playing for the Constellation Prize. Even when I bloviated at the start of the season that the Knicks were going to the NBA Finals. I said going to the NBA Finals. I damn sure didn't say win it because I never anticipated them beating an Oklahoma City or even Denver. So I get where you're coming from, Jay. I totally agree with you. We're playing for the Constellation Prize, and I think the Nuggets reminded us that last night because even though they weren't fully armed, they still find a way to do what needs to be done. And that's something that the Eastern Conference continuously has shown us they've struggled to do, at least on a perpetual basis. I can't believe the two veterans, Shea, that we have of the NBA basketball who just watched the Indiana Pacers come this close to pulling that upset last year, dismissing the Eastern Conference like that. But all right, you go ahead and do that. I'm not dismissing it. I'm just saying favorite. I'm not dismissing it. They might have won that game. Hal Halliburton didn't get hurt. I did say, I've said for weeks, I've said for weeks Detroit could win it all. I've said for weeks Detroit could win it all. But what I'm saying is that if you got to bet your money, because we do live in the age of sports gaming, if you got to bet your money, who you going to bet it on? You going to bet it on the West. You ain't going to bet it on the East, Wendy. That's a fact. Fair enough. Let's keep it moving. Let's stay, though, with the East and stay with the Celtics because Shams reported last night that Jason Tatum is competing in five-on-five scrimmages. And this question has been thrown out a lot, but now it feels a lot more realistic. Should Tatum come back? What do you think for the Celtics? There is a huge part of me, Shea, that wants to see Jason Tatum come back. But I don't believe he should come back this season, and I think here's why. Number one, being dropped into this part of the season or later changes the chemistry and dynamic of how your team plays. There are a lot of players right now, and I know a lot of fans would think it can be additive, right, because it's Jason Tatum. But also, like, not having the fluidity of touching the rock, the continuity of that, the continuity of fitting inside that system this season in particular, I think that would be very disruptive to the way the Boston Celtics played. And also what happens with that is when you drop somebody of his magnitude inside of a team, if that's March or late April, people start deferring. The pressure ramps up. Jason Tatum starts to expect to try to do things that we haven't seen him do this year, also react in that mindset. So I don't know if I like the position it puts him in. And lastly, what I will say is that, and look, if he gets cleared, he gets cleared. But guys, these Achilles injuries, they aren't anything to play around with. Ain't nothing to play around with. We've seen how many of them happened last year. We see the wear and tear. We see the pace of this game, which is exceptionally different than before. And just inserting yourself back into that at the most intensified time of the year, where scouting reports get pinpointed. I just don't like the situation it puts him in rather than have him ease into next season, take his time this offseason, crystallize how he feels, and let that be the ramp where he bolts into next year. That's just how I feel about it. I say, I don't know how you feel about it. Well, let me be a bit facetious before I get a bit serious by reminding everybody that when Jason Tatum showed up in the studio earlier this year, earlier this season on first take, I implored him to stay home. I implored him. I said, hey, man, you don't need to risk anything. Stay home. Don't play. New York Knicks' path to prosperity. I mean, don't get in the way of that. Stay home. Relax. Rest for the rest of the season. We'll see you next year. Don't worry about it. You know what I'm saying? He was laughing about that because I was trying to convince him to stay home, right? But in all seriousness Damian Lillard ain thinking about coming back this year Tyrese Halliburton ain thinking about coming back this year but there reasons for that Jay And the reasons for that is the team ain contending for a championship And I think if we saw the Boston Celtics plummet the way Indiana has in the absence of a Tyrese Halliburton, even though Myles Turner is gone, Matherin is gone, that kind of stuff, the fact is is that you look at the Boston Celtics and the way that Jalen Brown has been playing and you're still fantasizing about capturing another NBA championship. And I don't say fantasizing like it's a pipe dream. I'm just talking about legitimate dreams because obviously Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown, if Jason Tatum, some miracle happened and he came back and he was Jason Tatum, with Jalen Brown being what we see him being, the seeing, what we've seen him be this season, my God, what could Boston do? You can't rule out anything. And I think that's what this is all about. Me personally, I would be inclined to hold off in all seriousness because it is an Achilles as opposed to an ACL or something else. An Achilles is not something to play with. And to rush back and come back early, you could potentially derail your future with that because this is an Achilles tear that we're talking about here. But I think Boston knows that better than anybody. Tatum knows that better than anybody. Brown knows that better than anybody. And it's twofold. On one hand, you don't want to see him jeopardize his future, even though you understand why he's doing it, why he would be doing it, because they got a chance to capture a championship. But the other thing is the same Jalen Brown that we put on a hot seat in a regular season that has answered the call in MVP caliber fashion. I want to see if that brother as the number one option shows up in the postseason, too. It would be interesting to see what Jalen Brown does when he doesn't have a Jason Tatum to defer to, when everyone is deferring to him, and it's in a best-of-seven series. I'd like to see Jalen Brown under those conditions because I think he'd respond in a big way and put everybody on notice. You should have had me on the Olympic team, and you should have always considered me a number-one option, even if it's 1-1-8 with Jason Tatum, because I'm that dude. Shay, I think that this question that's down here, this is only for one person. That's for Jason Tatum. And he's going to be the one that gets to decide whether he's ready or not. And I think the Celtics have put it in position where they apply no pressure to him, nor have they ever indicated speculation. And they have gone overboard in protecting where he's at in his recovery because they don't want people to get amped up. And they have given him that space. And he has something on his side and all this downside of coming back from this injury. What he's got on his side is he's already proven he's a champion. He's not trying to get back to show people anything. He's answered all of the questions. But where I think it is fascinating is exactly what you just said, Stephen A., is the difference that he can make in this race. Because I could sit here and explain to you, oh, this is why I think Detroit could win. But I could easily explain to you this is why they can't. Say the same thing about Cleveland. Say the same thing about the Knicks. Knicks take two steps forward, one step back every freaking week. I have no idea what they're going to look like. But when you look at Boston, as impressive of a season as they're having, let's just be fair and honest. From a talent standpoint, top eight versus top eight, they don't match up with the other three top teams in the East. Now, they would fight on that, and they would say, well, we're going to beat them in seven, and they may end up being able to do that. But from a straight talent standpoint, the Celtics' influx of getting Jason Tatum, even if he's not 100%, would be game-changing. And, of course, he knows that. And so that's why this is such a fascinating situation, not just because it's the Boston Celtics and they're chasing a championship, but it's the Boston Celtics where if they got Jason Tatum back, it would potentially change the balance of power in the whole league. And so everybody understands that, but the Celtics know that this is a guy they want to have doing this for years to come. Right. So if Jason Tatum comes back, the Celtics could potentially win a championship. If he doesn't come back, I don't think anyone would slap the Celtics as a team that could win the championship. So you know better than anyone. He comes back and he's right. Sure. He comes back and he's right or 90% or whatever. To Stephen A's point, when he came on this show, he said, I'm not working out two times a day to not come back this season. I'm doing what I can to get back and get in game shape. He, by all accounts, wants to come back. Of course. But you know better than anyone what it's like to come back from a serious injury. Not the same one, right? Not the same one. But your mentality has got to be there. You disagreed with Wendy. Why? Well, because my thing is that, you know, I know what Jason Tatum wants to do. Like, Jason Tatum is a competitor. Like, it's the whole reason why he's training so hard to come back. But I will say this. Sometimes the organization needs to protect the player from himself. And Jason Tatum is 27 years old. There's so much talk about what would this team be like if he came back and he was absolutely right for a guy that has not played basketball in six or seven months and is just trying to train in 505 and practice. We're going to throw him into the playoffs. All I'm going to say is this. He's 27 years old. For as much as you want it to be right right now, think about it being right next year when he's 28. Think about being right next year, the year after that, when he's 29, when he's 30, when he's 31. Make sure you think long-term with Jason Tatum instead of just thinking about we need to get it right here and right now. That's all I'm saying. Jay's a thousand percent right in this regard. Here's how you send that message to Jason Tatum. You're 27 years old. Jalen Brown is 28. And you've been to five conference finals. He's been to six. You've been to two NBA finals. He's been to two NBA finals. You both have won a championship together already. and you got plenty of time to figure out how to do it again. You ain't in your 30s. You in your 20s. You got ample amount of time over the course of your career as a dynamic duo to pull this off. We want to make sure everything is in place and nothing potentially disrupts that for the long term. That's how you sell that to Jason Tatum. You talk about what you've done repeatedly over the years. Think about that. Age 27. And you've been to five conference finals and two NBA finals and a champion. Age 28, you Jalen Brown. You've been to six conference finals and two NBA finals and you're a champion. You do have a legitimate beef to say, what's the rush? Let's make sure we got this right. You're Boston. You could do that because if they did what they did at a younger age, imagine what they're going to do. It's not like in their late 30s. They're in their late 20s. They got plenty of time. That's how you pitch that to Jason Tatum. Yeah, but you never know with other injuries or what's going to happen with your roster. That's the thing, Shea. Shea, you're right, because I'm telling you, they're going to get there. It's going to be April or May or whatever, and they can see the lay of the land just like we can. They know the lay of the land, and that's why this is so incredibly fascinating. And I'll just say one other thing. DeJounte Murray came back two nights ago. We're glad to see him back in New Orleans. He tore his Achilles last January. He needed 13 months to get back. And the Pelicans are not tanking this year. They don't have their draft pick. They're still holding out hope for the play-in tournament. That guy needed 13 months. He's in his 20s too. Jason Tatum isn't even at 10 months yet. So, you know, just because we follow Tatum more because he's a champion, superstar, Olympian, all this stuff, you know, So, the Achilles tears are different. There's a difference between Murray and Tatum and all that stuff. But here's another guy who needed 13 months. So, just keep that in mind. If he doesn't come back, it's not like a mark against him. He needed 13 months. Jason Tatum hasn't even been at 10 months yet. Lillard and Halliburton are out. And when KD suffered it, how long was KD out? It was a year and a half. A year and a half. Before he came back. Before he came back. So I'm just saying the point is that all of that is evidence to say pump the brakes. You don't need to come back this season. You don't need to do that. Not all players are. All of that is reason. I agree with you. That's all. Let's move on. Let's go to a quick take here from college basketball. UConn faced off with St. John's for the second time this season last night. And UConn took care of business and then some, beating the Red Storm 72-40. Oh, my Lord. And marked Rick Pacino's worst loss since becoming the head coach at St. John's. The Red Storm beat the Huskies by nine a few weeks ago, but last night, I mean, goodness, it was all UConn. They had a 42-12 advantage in the paint. Advantages all over the place. J-Will, yikes. So I'm going to say this, Stephen A., and you know I love me some college basketball. Dan Hurley and Rick Pitino is the biggest coaching rivalry we have in basketball right now. I don't know what other rivalries we have in the NBA, But I will tell you, Dan Hurley is one of the craziest coaches you'll ever meet. He's so passionate about it. You already know Coach Pitino. Coach Rick Pitino. So the fact that these two collide. Now, here's my thing. They usually call Madison Square Garden, I think, Stores South, right? Because they usually sell out Madison Square Garden. Now, last time in St. John's, they played this year, St. John's won. And Rick Pitino went out in the newspaper and said, Oh, I think that's about 80%, 90% red tonight. 80%, 90% red in this building tonight. Like, oh, we took over the Garden again. I think that's why Dan Hurley wanted to smack them at UConn. Like, this is something that's festering right now that I think has a chance to be one of the top storylines in all basketball, NBA and college with those two. I'm glad you told me that because I didn't know that. I respect the hell out of both coaches. I'm a huge fan of Dan Hurley. He's a sensational coach. I just love him. But I will say this. I will say this. That was an aberration last night, only from this standpoint. I don't give a damn who you are. who the hell spends an entire half shooting two for 28? Who the hell misses 24 straight shots? I mean, it's like I would love to give UConn all the credit in the world, but, I mean, you can't make that up. St. John's, I mean, a bunch of bricklayers, construction workers. You know what? If it was the summertime, it would be appropriate. But considering the fact that we just experienced – oh, y'all, not me, but y'all just experienced the blizzard, okay? Considering that reality, I mean, damn. Listen, if this was mimicking shoveling snow, it would have been understandable. But it wasn't. You were just laying bricks all over the damn place. That's an aberration. I mean, listen, I know the final score. You got romped. You got blown out. I get it. But, ladies and gentlemen, you'd be hard-pressed to find a team that misses 24 straight shots. that spent an entire half going two for 28. I mean, damn, they just couldn't buy a basket. That's really what that was about. It could be an aberration. It doesn mean Dan Hurley didn enjoy it No And St John had won 13 straight games leading into last night But I know a Dan that did enjoy it last night It an aberration I know a Dan that didn enjoy it No And St John had won 13 straight games leading into last night But I know a Dan that did enjoy it last night I know a Dan that did enjoy it Look, get in here, Dan Orleski. Congrats. That should be a UConn jersey, not a Team USA jersey. Team USA jersey. Team USA jersey. I haven't seen you in a minute. Isn't it the offseason? Isn't it the offseason? What are you doing here? Why are we looking at you? Stephen A, a couple things. I don't know why you're looking at me. You called it an aberration. Aberration? Aberration? Aberration? Yeah, there you go. Two years ago when they went to the National Tour, they went on that 30-0 run versus Illinois. So maybe it's a UConn thing. It's not just a one-off. Maybe it's a UConn plays defense. Well, to the basketball wannabe wearing the hockey jersey, let me state for you that when, you know, there could be 30-0 runs. There could be 20-0 runs. but usually that's right for a bunch of turnovers, sloppy play and stuff like that. Rare in the day do you see any team miss 24 straight shots. We'd have to go check your stats. That is a huge aberration. You're terrible. That's all I'm saying. Leave us alone, man. Leave us alone. He's speaking fracks right now. I haven't seen him in two weeks. All right. I haven't seen him in two weeks. Dan's going to stick around. Just say you missed me. Just say you missed me. That's all. You can't make it. That's all. I bet you $5 you can't make it. That's good. Bet five. Oh, no. Cash. Oh. All sides of the window. Run in. All right. De'Au's going to stick around and talk a little football. Coming up here on First Take, Kevin Durant had some choice words about if international basketball is catching up. Do we have money on the table? Oh, my gosh. Stephen A agreed with him, but will J Will agree with him? He'll have a word. Plus, yes, Dio had an interesting take, one I did not like about Fernando Mendoza that needs some explaining. We'll see if he still thinks he is the clear-cut number one overall pick. He has singles. You got changed for a 20? He has singles. Why do you have so many singles in your pocket, man? Where have you been? I have two singles and I bought a pocket. That's not what you have the rest of your hand. Your face is red. We got some SEC women's basketball tonight. Flaugé Johnson and number six LSU will host Talasia Cooper in Tennessee. Coverage begins at 6 Eastern on ESPN and, of course, the ESPN app. Back on Monday during that snowstorm, Dan Orlowski was all over X, weren't you? Watching tape, tweeting some things out. And Louis Riddick is here from the Indianapolis Combine. Good morning, Louis. Thank you for getting up early with us. Looking dapper. Indy. Hold up, hold up, hold up, hold up, Shay. Props to, I mean, somebody recognized and remembered the dress code associated with first take. Louis Riddick is an Indy looking shot. Way to go. I mean, I'm very impressed. I'm very impressed. I'm very impressed. Stephen A., Stephen A., this ain't about your dress code, bro. This is about – this is just how I roll. Okay, I have reigns like that. All right? You already know this. You already know that. So, that's just what this is. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I'm glad to be here. I'm glad to be here because you always look good. You always look good. Dan's in his hockey sweater. He's supporting Team USA. It's okay. Too bad you didn't wear that yesterday with Doggy. All right, anyways, let's go to Monday and let's go to you on X annoying me because this is what Dio tweeted out. Studying the first five games of Mendoza's tape, and it's not what I expected so far. Explain. Yeah, so I'm through eight games now, and through eight games you see good, but there's a lot of underwhelming. I think there's a lot when you watch Mendoza's tape through eight games, not all the way through, and I understand that his season finishes strong, but there's not a ton of big-time throws. There's a lot of clean pockets. There's a ton of RPOs and back shoulder fades, a ton of them, RPOs and back shoulder fades. And then there's moments where you see like, okay, that first read's not there. He's spooked with his feet, and he becomes a runner unnecessarily. If you take away the RPOs and then those back shoulder fades, there's just not a ton of balls over the middle of the field. Very good decisions. I think that's his superpower is he avoids negative plays, but you're looking at a guy that's saying first pick, first pick, and I think through eight games, Ty Simpson's tape from Alabama through the first eight games of the season, I think is significantly more impressive than Fernando Mendoza's. Okay, really quick, he did play for Cal the year before, so maybe taking a few games to get acclimated to Kirkson. And I just haven't watched the back half of the season yet. I just haven't gotten to those. Okay, so before I go to Lewis here and Stephen A., do you still think he is the clear-cut number one overall pick? I'm not there, and that's through half of the season or so. I'm just not there. Wow. NFL season just got done two, three weeks ago. I haven't gotten to the back seven or eight games or so. So I am not there through half the season. You should be ashamed of yourself. See, Lewis, this is what bothers me. And listen, we all brothers here, man. But this is what bothers me about my bro Dan Oloski, my brother from another mother. He really gets on my nerves with this stuff. Had there been Stephen A. Smith about anybody, and I mean anybody, Dan Oloski. See, he's such a hater. Ryan Clark, he's such a hater. This is what they would have said. So I got a Heisman Trophy winner who goes undefeated, who wins the national championship, who has one of the epic moments in college football this past year. I mean, to pass Omar Cooper against Penn State. You know, to run in a national championship game. along with a bevy of other moments because that's what it comes to. You would point to all of those things and say, where they counted most, the man stepped up. It was his first year in Indiana. He was playing under Signetti. And look at the development and the growth and all of this other stuff. But even though you have more tape to watch because you haven't completed your job yet because you didn't look at the other seven or eight games to go, right? All right, you're going to sit up there and say, the Heisman Trophy winner, the reigning national champion, I saw some tapes about him that gives me cause to pause, and I can't say definitively that he's my number one guy. If it were anybody else, you'd be accusing him of being a hater. But you, Mr. Hockey, we doing that hockey this morning, you, Mr. Elvis, you can go on national TV and say that based on half your job being done. You're unbelievable, Dan. You're just unbelievable. I'll give it to you. You're one of a kind. My job isn't to watch every single snap of these guys. There's nobody like Dan Olavsky. February 20th. Go ahead, man. That's not my job that I was at. I've gone through half of those games. The NFL season literally just got done. I've gone through half of those games. Anybody ask you, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Who asked you to give your analysis after half the job was done? Did you do that on social media? Did you show up on NFL Live or SportsCenter to do that? That's not what you did. No, first take did. You went on social media. That is not your job. That was a choice you made. You made that choice. Yes, it is. You didn't wait. You didn't wait until you see all the games. You didn't have your win on social media. I did the first five games. Nobody asked you to do that. You chose to do that. Go ahead, Lewis. Go ahead, man. Please. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I disagree. I disagree. We've seen some things very similarly when it comes to quarterback. Disagree with who? The past couple of years. But I couldn't. I disagree with Dan. I couldn't disagree more, quite honestly. Look, if you go back to week five against Iowa, week seven, I believe it is against Oregon, week 10 against Penn State. If I was a defender going up against Fernando Mendoza and won, okay, let me just start here with the intangibles, the football character, the toughness that this kid shows, the mental horsepower that this kid shows, the ability for me to sit there and go, I just can't show him what I'm trying to do here because he's going to pick me apart. He's going to know exactly where to go with the football. This guy is one of the most efficient dudes that I've seen in a long time as far as being able to play the game from the neck up. And then from a physical standpoint, I would say this. This dude plays on time. He plays in rhythm. He throws the speed outs as fast as anyone. His ball handling on the RPOs, his decision-making on the RPOs is fantastic. His back shoulder accuracy is better than just about anyone in the NFL right now. The guy can throw the back shoulders as well as anyone. He drove seam balls over the middle of the field in between the numbers in the hash as well as any quarterback I saw in the NFL. His red zone efficiency, his red zone accuracy, that throw to win the football game against Penn State, there aren't many people who can make that kind of throw. There aren't many people who can come back from the kind of shot that he took in the Big Ten Championship against Ohio State and then come back and play that game the way in which he did. So, look, I'll tell you what. I looked at my notes this morning as I was getting ready for this and trying to think about, okay, were there some reservations that I had about him? And I did notice that I did say this. Does he look like a guy who I played with twice? The former number one overall pick in Jeff George. One of the best natural throwers of the football that God's ever created. Jeff George wasn't a franchise caliber quarterback. He wasn't a winning quarterback. Does he look like that? No. Does he look like Matthew Stafford? Absolutely not. These dudes are one of one from a physical standpoint. They are one of one. And you'll never probably see many guys like that ever created again. Does he look like Jamarcus Russell? No, we know what Jamarcus Russell turned into. But what did Peyton Manning look like when he came out of Tennessee? Andrew Luck, did he have a house like Matthew Stafford? No, but he's one of those guys who Indianapolis was still trying to recover from. Fernando Mendoza is the number one overall pick. And if I'm the Raiders, I'm John Spitek. I'm not even overthinking it. Yeah, I mean, there's still, once I see the final like seven games, I might get to that point, Lou. I honestly might. I just haven't gotten to that point. I would tell you that Iowa game that you talk about, that Iowa game, that would be one of those eggs this year. Like, that was a tough game to watch. And I think the quarterback conversation between really the two guys that are in the conversation this year is interesting because the first half of the season, I don't think Mendoza's tape is great. And to everyone's point, it gets really good. They've experienced it. I haven't. Ty Simpson from Alabama's first eight games are phenomenal. And then he tails off. They sure are. I think the team's got to, like, figure that out. Because if we were just going through eight games, you'd go with Ty Simpson, by far the better player. With Pups, to me, Lou, in those first eight weeks, Omar Cooper Jr. is awesome. Surratt's awesome. We're talking about these back shoulder faves and the ball placement. Those dudes are the stars of the tape for two months. That was a spectacular catch for Omar Cooper. There's no doubt. To catch it like that and come down and come down. He came down with both feet in bounds. It was a spectacular catch on his part, no doubt about it. But when I'm looking at Mendoza and I'm seeing the growth, your first year with Signetti, all right, and you pointed out the Penn State game, and then you look at what he's doing. I mean, you beat Ohio State, Alabama, Oregon, and Miami to win the national championship, and you ascend each and every single time. You know that you're in line to capture the Heisman. You're competing against others for it, and you elevate your level of play as the competition stiffens I think that when you looking for a number one overall pick What doesn he have going for him As far as I concerned it clear cut It nothing to even think about Go ahead, though. Yeah, look, I think you definitely have to keep in context the fact that this young man was transferring all the way across the country into a new system, trying to get his feet wet, trying to get acclimated. And, you know, there is going to be a ramp-up time period. Okay, and there's going to be those games where it doesn't look perfect for him. but his progression throughout the course of the season is exactly what you're looking for. It's his first time playing with these guys with a team that was totally overhauled, and he's the quarterback. And he went on and threw 41 touchdowns and six interceptions and led an organization and a football program to the promised land that had never even sniffed it before. You have to factor all that in when you're talking about the number one overall pick. You just have to. And to go back to your point about Ty Simpson, look, I'm a Ty Simpson fan. I love what the kid brings to the table. I think he fits perfectly in what an L.A. Rams type of offense is really trying to get done from a philosophical standpoint. And I don't think he goes outside of the top 15 picks overall in the first round. He was hurt during the latter part of the year. His offensive line stunk. They had no running game. His wide receivers were all over the map. I'm not a Ty Simpson basher at all. I think he's going to be much better than people think he's going to be. Well, right now, Mel Kuyper Jr. has him going 21st overall. That would be to the Steelers. Meanwhile, as we know, Fernando Mendoza, number one overall to the Raiders as it stands today. We've still got like two months until the NFL draft. Lewis, thank you very much. Enjoy the combine today. J. Will is going to be back here in a minute. And as a take about Luka Doncic that you don't want to miss, we'll see where Stephen A. stands on that. Plus, is Kevin Durant right about USA basketball against other countries? Well, we heard Stephen A. the other day say he thinks so. But buckle up for J. Will's response. We'll go back into basketball next. His first take, Rose and all. Welcome back to First Take. The other day we discussed these comments from KD on other countries catching up to Team USA. And he said, quote, I just don't like the talk around the USA versus European style of how you approach the game. All I hear is AAU is destroying the game. The Euros do it right while the Americans do it wrong. It's a lot of bull fill in the blank with that. I can read between the lines on that. It's a shot at black Americans. were controlling the sport. They're tired of us controlling the sport. France is coming for you, really? We smacked them boys, end quote. So, Jay, the other day, Stephen A. agreed with Kevin Durant and what he had to say, and now I ask you, how do you feel about what his thoughts are? So, I've been waiting because I was going to jump on KD the other day. Sure. And, you know, then I got a chance to watch Straight Shooter on your show, which is a great show, by the way. You know, great show, elite show. Thank you. And I heard you pontificate on it. And I have to firmly push back. And there are some things more so in the KD part that kind of got to me earlier because I felt like we were having different arguments. Right. The first argument was about AAU basketball, which is a completely different argument than the black American thing. I think whenever you bring race into something like this, it hijacks the conversation and takes away from the initial point. Right. So to me, frankly, it felt a little bit like a racist victimhood mentality, frankly. And it concerned me a tad. Right. Because I think critiquing a development system is not critiquing a race. And we're talking about development systems for Americans, Americans. It's so AAU, which has been monopolized by shoe companies and by handlers and by, you know, institutions that try to make it where it extracts value. And I get that predominantly players in the NBA are African-American, but there are also a lot of players in the NBA and around the country that are Caucasian and involved in the same developmental structure, right, of AAU basketball compared to the likes of overseas where it's more institutionalized, where there's more structure. There's more focus on the basic fundamentals of the game. Now, the thing that really bothered me ultimately about the comment is that we've heard American players talk about this for the longest time. Michael Jordan, Larry Bird. 2015, Kobe Bryant literally said, European players are taught how to play the game the right way. They grew up learning fundamentals, spacing, footwork, and how to read the floor. In the U.S., we teach athleticism first. Over there, they teach skill and IQ first. Now, to me, Kobe never framed this as a racial or predominantly black thing. He framed this as, or he never said European players were better. He was just saying the way they developed was different. And I felt like when KD sometimes goes off on these rants, it doesn't mean that he's fully wrong. But when you just engage it that way, it sounds a little bit reckless. And it also feels as if it can just polarize a statement to a country where we're all in the middle of Black History Month, like Morgan Freeman always has said. And, man, like, black history should never be minimized to a month. It should be American history. And that's why I wanted to come on TV and say to you. Well, first of all, I disagree with you on a couple of points, and I'll get into that for a second. But first of all, the business is that you're my brother and you're a highly intelligent brother and you make sense every time you open your mouth. So, listen, there ain't nothing to be offended by. You disagree with me, I'm going to win either way because either I'm going to be right or I'm going to be educated. I'm going to be right or I'm going to get educated. So I'm not losing either way. So we're good. So let's get that out of the way first. Secondly, let me say the thing that I think you're missing. I don't think it's appropriate to call KD reckless with this comment. And I think that it's important to point out that while you talk about victimhood when it comes to racism, right, there is a history that shows black people have been victimized by racism. Not in every single case, not always or anything like that. But the fact of the matter is that's a reality. So when people sit up there and say, oh, you're coming across as a victim, well, damn it, that's because black folks have been victims of that. And we live in a society, particularly in this day and age, where people would like to erase that reality. It doesn't get erased. It's a part of history. Just like any other group of people have their history, you can't go to the Jewish community and tell them to forget the Holocaust. You can't tell them to forget stuff that they've endured and they experienced and they suffered from and the iniquities that they were exposed to and they had to endure. Don't come to black people with that. So let's get that out the way. To get to Kevin Durant specifically, Kevin Durant, with all of those superlatives and whatever, Jay, he was talking about the narrative. He wasn't refuting what Kobe had highlighted in terms of European basketball and what they focused on compared to what was transpiring in America and what have you. In my estimation, he was pointing to the narrative. If you remember, just weeks earlier, he had talked about it. He brought up Luka Doncic, and he brought up Nikola Jokic. And he said, y'all get on us all the time about our lack of effort for All-Star Weekend. You never bring them up. Have you seen them play in All-Star Weekend? They don't care at all. Nobody had thought about that. We were saying NBA All-Stars, but we were really looking at the LeBrons and KDs and other people. So as a person that has won championships, that has won MVPs, that has won scoring titles, that's a four-time Olympic gold medalist, he is sitting there with intimate experiences of dealing with the narratives that are thrown in his direction and that of his contemporaries. And he is compartmentalizing. Yo, this is what we're experiencing. When y'all ask these questions, y'all come to us. You're not coming to the other all-stars who are lackadaisical on the court who haven't put forth that much effort. I'm just saying that when he pointed to the narrative, I thought that he made a very salient point. Because it was true, and it is true, that when we talk about players, we're usually talking about them. And that's a fact. But why is it black Americans? Well, because it turns into a battle between Kevin Durant and Luka Doncic and Nikola Jokic when obviously like there's Wimpy. I thought I just answered that. I thought I just answered. He's saying that when y'all come with this cynicism and this skepticism, it is aimed at the black American players. That's what he's saying. Y'all are coming at us with it. You ain't coming at the others. You look at cats from Europe, whether it's Jokic or Gluka or it's Wembeyama today, it's Embiid, it's anybody. He said, you're looking at us differently. That's what he's pointing to. And I thought he had a point when he said that. I don't think that could be denied. But in my opinion, he's looking at that comment. It's not about black Americans. It's about stylistic. It's about, and that's my point, Stephen. I hear where you're trying to go with it. My point is it felt like it was misconstrued. It's more about systems in place and how people felt those systems led to quality of players and the way the game was taught. It had nothing to do about race. Wait a minute. I agree with that. But you're talking about the validity of the subject matter that we're talking about. I'm saying in his words, he was alluding to the narrative that has been created and how everybody is coming at players like himself and LeBron and black players from America acting like they're responsible for bringing down the quality of play. They're the best players in the world. Of course they're going to go at them. What, are they going to go at Tyler Hero? Of course they're going to go at LeBron and Kevin Durant. Kevin Durant's the most skilled player in the history of the game. Yeah, it's going to be a thing. Hold the time on top. One of the most skilled players in the history of the game who has never cheated the game. He's never cheated the game. The brother shows up. All he wants to do is hoop, okay? You know, load management with him. You know, taking his money for granted. He's not playing like somebody that's not a champion. He's pointing out, based on the narrative, and he said, I can read between the lines of what you're doing. This is how him and a lot of the players feel. You know them, and you know that's how they feel. Now, you can attack the veracity of their feelings or the legitimacy of their feelings, but there is no doubt that they feel that way. And a lot of times us in the media, we're sitting back and we're like, hey, you know what? When we go and we ask them these questions, we're aiming it at them. When he pointed out Luca and Jokic, for example, when have they been asked those questions? That's what he was saying. And I think he's legitimate to that. By the way, as a producer that's been in our air for five minutes telling us, countdown, stop. Okay, we know. Okay, stop. All right? But that's it. All I'm saying is that's what he was talking about, the narrative. And I get it. I understand where he's coming from. In order to be fair, I do get where he's coming from with that. I have so much more I want to say on this. Well, maybe we can revisit this later on. Yeah, we can come back to it later on. All right, coming up here on First Take, J. Will is going to stick around because speaking of Luka Doncic, we're going to talk about his play as well. Must see TV. As always, more First Take after this. chanel