BBC Sounds Music Radio Podcasts Hello and welcome to News Hour from the BBC World Service. I'm Leila Nathou in London. In a moment we will have the latest on the US naval blockade of Iran's port, that's due to begin shortly, and have the Pope's visit to Algeria been overshadowed by a row with President Trump. But we will start today's programme in the Hungarian capital Budapest, where Viktor Orban and his Fidesz party have suffered a crushing defeat in parliamentary elections. News Hour's Regina Verdeanathan is there for us. Regina. Yes Leila, we're at the Hung Expo Centre on the outskirts of Budapest. It's a non-discript glass-fronted business centre, not the sort of place you'd expect to see the soon-to-be prime minister who's been congratulated by capitals across Europe. It's definitely not the place you'd expect him to deliver his first press conference to the world's media. But it was in a slightly soulless conference room where the leader of Tisa Petter Magyar spoke to journalists standing in front of Hungarian flags, with, for good measure, an EU flag at each end. Well, Mr Magyar promised to usher in a new era in politics after 16 years of rule by the far-right Prime Minister Viktor Orban. Hungary and the Hungarians wrote history yesterday on the 12th of April. What we saw and experienced in Hungary and also from across the world, it was history in the making in real time. Well, Mr Magyar said he won't govern Hungary like a king, but as a captain, pledging to hold referenda to make big decisions. A dig perhaps at accusations that his predecessor misused his powers to change the constitution to give him more. Well, the soon-to-be prime minister says he's just ready to get on with the job. Our country has no time to lose. Hungary is in trouble in more than one way. It's been robbed. It's been betrayed. It's been indebted. It's been devastated. We became the most impoverished and the most corrupt country in the EU. And I would like to repeat what I said last night, that Tisa government will represent every Hungarian, those also those who did not vote for Tisa. But we will represent every Hungarian within the country, but also across the borders. One of the great historical figures of Hungary who also has a statue in the Congress in Washington, DC. And he said everything for the people, everything with the people, nothing about the people above the head of the people. That is democracy. This is what Leuszko Schultz said. And this is what will be our guiding light as well. We will do everything in our power to start a new era, because the Hungarians did not only vote for a change of government, but rather a change of the whole regime. Well, that new era, Leila, was ushered in late on Sunday on the banks of the River Danube. And I was there with tens of thousands of supporters of the Tisa party as they celebrated a feat few politicians could pull off. Because Peter Madjar has only been the leader of Tisa for two years. 24 hours ago, 24 hours ago, his party didn't have a single MP in the National Assembly in Hungary. And now they are on course for 142. Well, I watched the range of emotions as the crowd wept, wailed, cheered and celebrated a momentous night in Hungary's history. Well, let's get more on how things unfolded with this report from our Hungary correspondent Nick Thorpe. As the news broke that the Orban era was over, the Hungarian capital erupted in a sea of celebrations. People laughed and shouted and sang and danced in the streets. To the surprise of many here, Viktor Orban conceded swiftly, almost gracefully. The result of the election is painful for us, but unambiguous, he told his shocked supporters. The possibility and responsibility of governing was not granted to us. I have congratulated the winning party. Reaction in the huge crowd lining the shores of the Danube, opposite the parliament, was instantaneous. Young people who were toddlers 16 years ago could hardly believe that Viktor Orban and his Fidesz party could be defeated. I've been waiting against the Fidesz parliament for forever, so I'm really happy that there is finally one person who is strong enough to actually challenge him for this well. And I hope it means like we are getting closer to Europe and I don't know, it means more democracy, yeah, just more freedom for me. Hungary is European, Hungary is part of the West and not the East. And we believe that those are the countries we should make and establish and nourish our alliances with. Peter Modja fielded phone calls from some prominent European leaders, among them President Macron of France, Kirsten Stammer from the UK, and Ursula von der Leyen on behalf of the European Union. Then he came on stage. The Tissa party and Hungary won this election, he told the cheering crowd, not a small victory, a huge, enormous victory. Together we toppled the Orban regime, together we liberated Hungary, we took back our homeland. After the celebrations, an immense task faces Peter Modja as prime minister. On Sunday night, he held out an olive branch to Fidesz voters, inviting them to work together to rebuild the country. All those who've stolen the national wealth, however he warned, will have to face justice. Well, Layla, as we headed back to the hotel, we bumped into a young supporter of Peter Modja who we'd met on Friday at a rally. He was carrying, you may have seen it, that manga one-piece skull flag. That's become a symbol of the Gen Z resistance movement. We spoke to him on Friday and then we were walking back and I saw that flag and I thought it can't be him again. And it was. So we stopped him and we asked him to get his reaction on Tissa's landslide. It's a new thing, you know, I grew up in this system, I grew up in this regime and it's ended and I'm floating. I'm floating. When I met you on Friday, you said you really hoped that Victor Orban would lose and not be prime minister anymore after this election because you really hoped that the reputation and perception of Hungary around the world would change. Do you believe that that can now? And what do you want the world to look at Hungary and see? Yeah, I just want to say first that I've, that's a sad thing to say, but I've never really, I've never been happy to be a Hungarian. That's a very harsh thing to say, but I've never felt truly a Hungarian and today I feel like I'm happy to be Hungarian and I hope that Europe will see us differently from now on and, and they should know that we, we want to be part of Europe and, and we, we are not Orban. We ended him today and, and this is a new country and every European should hear that. So, I'll win there who we've met on Friday before the election result and then last night on Sunday evening as it became clear that Hungary was on the precipice of huge change. Well, let's speak now to someone who is very close to Petr Maja, Tamas Topolanski. He's not a member of TISA. He is in fact a Hungarian film director and screenwriter who's had a ringside seat at the meteoric rise of Mr Maja, spending a year following his movement. Well, Tamas has turned that all into a documentary film called in English, Spring Wind. Welcome to News Out, Tamas. Thanks very much for joining us here on the outskirts of Budapest. You have seen Mr Maja close up. For those of us who are not as familiar with him, what would you say is the one defining trait that is important to know about how he might lead? First of all, thank you for having me. We've been with my team following Peter Maja for over a year, as he said, and we met someone with a lot of passion and dedication for his country. And over this year, we saw how many hundreds of thousands of people of Hungarian he met during his not just campaign, but this sort of rising movement. And what we saw is that this sort of passion just strengthened in him and this dedication for the country became much stronger. I feel and I saw that these individual meetings of Hungarian citizens, made him feel even more responsible for the country. Yeah, it's interesting because just in that news conference now, he was talking about how he traveled around the country and that meant he didn't get to spend as much time with his five children. He's got a young family, sorry, I heard that wrong. Pardon me, three young children. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. 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I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. One of the most interesting persons I've ever met. Again, very, very well educated about Hungarian history, about the government, how it works from DINZA. I think that the most interesting thing is that he knows really how the government worked, what we just finished yesterday, basically. Okay, Tamás. Thank you very much for sharing what you know about Peter Medjub. Well, Leila, of course, will find out in the days and the weeks and the months to come just how he will govern. Rajini, thank you. The BBC's Rajini Vardionathan, they're live in Budapest. Coming up here on News Hour, Pope Leo begins a tour of African countries beginning in Algeria, which is majority Muslim. We speak to a Catholic bishop there. It's a great, great event, not only for the church, of course, his coming is a great encouragement for the church. But it's a great joy for all the Algerian people. Since the day of the election, he said, I'm a son of Saint Augustine. All Algeria is waiting for him, and they are very, very happy to welcome him. And the BBC News headlines for you this hour. It's been reported that the US military has notified seafarers that all vessels, no matter which flag they sail under, will be subject to its blockade off the Iranian coast. You're listening to News Hour with me, Leila Nafi. We're live from the BBC World Service in London. President Trump's threatened blockade off Iran's port is due to begin within the hour, an act of piracy according to Iran's military. Tehran has choked off global supplies of oil and gas since the start of the war by preventing most tankers travelling through the Strait of Hormuz that lies to itself, but has warned of a severe response to any US naval action. A two-week ceasefire between the two sides is still holding, but direct talks between the US and Iran over the weekend in Pakistan's capital Islamabad ended without any longer-term deal. Earlier I spoke to Nicholas Hopton, who was the UK's ambassador to Iran between 2016 and 2018. I asked him how he thought President Trump's blockade would work. The understanding that I have of the proposal is that the US will stop any ships passing through the Strait of Hormuz that have taken money or paid money to the Iranians. So that will affect a large amount of shipping which might be not directly connected to Iran, but has perhaps paid some sort of toll or levy to the Iranians, because they are now of course de facto in control. And listening to a US admiral retired yesterday, he suggested that it would take a huge amount of US naval assets in order to make an effective blockade. And generally, it doesn't seem a very clear proposal because it is puzzling how a proposal to close the Strait of Hormuz is meant to open it. What will be the response from Iran to this naval blockade? The initial response was to say that they would not accept a US naval blockade of the Strait. The way I think they will be interpreting it like many is that the announcement is actually due to the President's frustration that the talks between the US and Iran on Saturday in Pakistan did not produce immediately a deal on the American terms. The hope must be that J.D. Vance and his Iranian interlocutors do manage to return to talks and then in due course negotiations sooner rather than later, and that this question of a blockade may be just a distraction for a few days, but equally it could lead to an escalation and a breakdown in the ceasefire and a return to full-on war. So you think there is still a path towards a negotiated settlement here? There has to be. Before the war, the Strait of Hormuz was not part of such negotiations. Now it will be an essential part of any negotiations because Iran has de facto control over the Strait of Hormuz. But could disruption to Iran's own oil exports cause enough damage to its economy that it feels significantly under pressure to come back to the negotiating table? Over time perhaps, but certainly I don't think it's a short term silver bullet to get Iran to do exactly what the United States wants. Iran does rely on its oil exports mainly to China. The Iranian economy is in a very bad state, but at the same time I don't think turning off Iran's oil exports and through the Strait of Hormuz will immediately cause a significantly different situation. It will just increase hardship for the Iranian people and the regime is resilient and ruthless and they are perfectly capable of taking a lot of pain for their people. You mentioned China and the impact of a squeeze on Iran's oil exports on China. Is there a more vocal response now from China if they start to really feel the effects of a US blockade? Quite possibly. And then the question is would they put pressure on Iran I suppose to comply to the US demands? I can't see that happening. I think the Chinese are feeling very comfortable that the US is making a mess of its war with Iran. Also they are probably quite pleased that the fact that so many US military assets have been taken to the Gulf means that those assets aren't in the South China Sea and which obviously has implications with the question about Taiwan. But I think the Chinese will probably feel the need to get more involved if a blockade actually becomes a reality and the US Navy does stop pretty much all shipping going through the Strait of Hormuz which will obviously impact on China, it will impact on the United States as well and on Europe and particularly on Asian economies. That was Nicholas Hopton, the former UK ambassador to Iran from 2016 to 2018, talking to me earlier. Now to all chocolate lovers across the world, if you are worried about the sustainability of your favorite treat, you may breathe a sigh of relief at our next story. Because scientists in the US and Colombia have come up with a new way to try to protect cacao plants against drought. That's something that's increasingly threatening parts of the world where they are grown. Dr James Richardson is a botanist focusing on the biology of cacao and its relatives at University College Cork in Ireland. What is this promising new strategy? So they were looking at fungal endophytes which are fungi which grow within a plant in a symbiotic manner. So it's in a manner which helps both the fungus and the plant. So what these researchers have done is isolated endophytic fungi from species of plants known to be drought tolerant and applied those endophytic fungi to the soils in which cacao plants are being grown. And what they found was that the association between these endophytic fungi and the cacao plants resulted in better growth of cacao plants under conditions of drought. And is this an entirely new approach to take what is happening in a cactus and try it in another crop? It's the first that I'm aware of it. It's a very smart strategy. So basically looking for organisms that are associated with plants that we already know grow under drought conditions and basically transferring those to plants that would benefit from those associations with those fungi. And what is it that the fungi do to make a plant resistant to drought? So that's a difficult question. We're not exactly sure how that works, but I would think they would help to improve the absorption of water and minerals from the soil. But apparently some of the observations that were made by Sylvia Restrepo's research group was that they also helped to regulate what are called stomata. And stomata are tiny little pores in the leaves of plants that regulate the movement of gases and water inside and outside of the plant. So basically if the plant has its stomata closed, it loses less water. So my understanding from their observations is that these endophytic fungi are helping in some way to regulate the size of these stomata, which in turn regulates the amount of water they lose. And how vulnerable are cacao plants to climate change? So theobroma cacao, which is the species from which chocolate is derived from the rainforest of Amazonia. And in conditions of drought, they don't grow as well and they're less productive. And one of the regions of greatest productivity is West Africa. In fact, it's the area where most cacao is produced. And these are regions which suffer in particular from periods of drought. So it's a huge problem for the cacao industry. And is this something that could appreciate it's in early stages of research, but if it's found to be successful, is it easily deployed on a large scale? That's a difficult question for me to answer, but I would imagine it would not be that difficult. Is there anything else that cacao plants could benefit from in terms of better farming methods, for example? So each cacao tree would produce hundreds of flowers, but only 5% of those flowers actually produce fruit. And the production of fruit depends on the pollination of the flowers. So we're interested in trying to improve the pollination success to see what is actually pollinating them and whether we can improve the success of pollination. My main research is looking at related species to see if we can use the information on a related species to make theobroma cacao more drought tolerant. That was Dr James Richardson there talking to me earlier about hopes for protecting future supplies of chocolate. Welcome back to News Hour. Let's return to Hungary now and the defeat of Viktor Orban in yesterday's elections, ending his 16 years in power and from Russia's point of view, severing a fruitful alliance. Orban had delayed EU sanctioned packages after Russia's invasion of Ukraine and has been blocking an EU loan to Kiev. How might Hungary's relationship with Ukraine now change under his successor, Petr Mediar? Yevhenyich Kravchuk is a Ukrainian MP from President Zelensky's Servant of the People Party. We now have a chance actually to build a normal relations where neighbors will have a shared border. Ukraine wants to be part of the European Union. So as long as decisions of new Hungarian government are not orchestrated in Kremlin, because Orban was obviously the proxy of putting inside of the EU. Well, the Kremlin said Moscow hoped for a pragmatic relationship with Hungary's new leadership. Andrei Fedorov is a former deputy foreign minister of Russia. Of course Russia will recognise the results of elections, but how to build a relationship with the new government and new prime minister is a very big question. First of all, it will depend very much on what kind of decisions Petr Mediar will take on Ukraine. With his assessment, here's our Russia editor, Steve Rosenberg. This is clearly very bad news for Vladimir Putin. To explain why, let me use the kind of language that Donald Trump uses about cards. Who's got the cards? Who doesn't have the cards? For years, Viktor Orban was a super strong card in Vladimir Putin's hand. So a Trump card, if you like. This pro-Moscow, pro-Putin leader of an EU country, of a NATO member state, who opposed further sanctions against Russia, who opposed the idea of further assistance for Ukraine, who opposed the idea of Ukraine's accession to the European Union. This is why he was so useful for Russia. And I think the Kremlin saw him as a destabilising force inside the European Union. Having said that, I'm sure we'll see attempts by the Kremlin to try to reach out to the new administration in Budapest. Also, I think the Kremlin probably reckons it has a few other cards to play regarding Hungary. The country over the last few years has become heavily dependent on Russian energy. That isn't going to change overnight. Neither will the Russian authorities' attempts to destabilise the situation, I think, inside the European Union. From what Russian commentators have been predicting in recent weeks, if the economic situation in Europe gets worse, if the energy situation in Europe gets worse, then destabilisation could be unavoidable. I've already read some comments on the pro-Kremlin website suggesting that Ukraine will get more assistance from the EU. Hungary under Viktor Orban had been opposing tens of billions of dollars of additional aid for Ukraine. So that might now go through. And as I say, these pro-Kremlin commentators were suggesting that the war will continue. The BBC's Russia editor Steve Rosenberg there. You're listening to NewsHour with me, Leila Nathu. Now, you might think that President Trump has enough on his plate at the moment, but he has found time to denounce Pope Leo after he spoke out against the Iran War. We don't want a pope that says, crime is OK in our cities. I don't like it. I'm not a big fan of Pope Leo. He's a very liberal person, and he's a man that doesn't believe in stopping crime. He's a man that doesn't think that we should be toying with a country that wants a nuclear weapon so they can blow up the world. I'm not a fan of Pope Leo. That was President Trump speaking to reporters at a US base in Maryland, elaborating on his social media attack on the head of the Catholic Church last night. Mr Trump followed that attack by posting an AI-generated image depicting himself as Christ healing the sick. Well, Pope Leo said he had no fear of the Trump administration and that he would continue to speak out loudly against the war. He's landed today in Algeria at the start of an 11-day tour of African countries, and he had this greeting for people there. Dear Algerian brothers and sisters, peace be with you. As-salamu alaikum. I give thanks to God for giving me the opportunity to visit your country as the successor of the apostle Peter after having already done so twice as a spiritual son of Saint Augustine. Pope Leo is the first head of the Catholic Church from the order that follows the teaching of Saint Augustine who was born in Algeria. Bishop Michel Guille of Constantine-Hypone was among the crowds waiting to receive the Pope in Algiers earlier. I caught up with him briefly, but we had to cut short our interview when the Pope arrived. It's a great, great event, not only for the church, of course his coming is a great encouragement for the church, but it's a great joy for all the Algerian people. Since the day of the election, he said, I'm a son of Saint Augustine. All Algeria is waiting for him, and they are very, very happy to welcome him. As the Pope usually do, they feel that he doesn't work only for his flock, for the Catholic people, but really he's at the service of peace, justice for all people, and they feel very close for many values to what he says. How important is his presence in Algeria for the dialogue between different faiths? These days, the point of dialogue is Saint Augustine himself. When we restored the Basilica of Saint Augustine in Hypo, half the contributions to restore the Basilica came from Algerian people, from institutions, companies, all people, and the other half was from the barricades Saint Augustine all over the world, or the help of other Christians. But you have many people coming every day to the Basilica, and most of them are Muslim. Saint Augustine is an Algerian. They are very proud to know that you have every day in the world a new book printed about Saint Augustine, and so he's a mean of dialogue, a bridge between the Algerian people. That was Bishop Michel Ghiord of Constantine Ipon, talking to me earlier from Algeria, where Pope Leo has arrived. Now let's go back to that momentous election result in Hungary, the defeat of nationalist conservative Victor Orban, who ruled his country for 16 years and turned it away from the EU, locking horns with Brussels, over Hungary's slide into authoritarianism, and the EU's support for Ukraine. So what does his departure mean for Europe? Ursula von der Leyen, president of the European Commission, gave her reaction to the result. The people of Hungary have spoken and they have reclaimed the European path. Today, of course, is a day to celebrate. I want to recall what I once said in a speech to the Hungarian people. We are one family. Your story is our story. Your future is our future. And we will walk with you every step of the way. Well, let's discuss the implications of Petr Madias' victory for the EU further with Peter Altmaier, a former German MP with the governing CDU party. He was federal minister for economic affairs and energy between 2018 and 2021. Welcome to News Hour. How much of a thorn in the side would you say Victor Orban was for the EU? Well, it was excellent news because it is strengthening. The geostrategic position of EU in the conflict between Russia and Ukraine, the Hungarian people has given a very clear signal that they see the European Union as a promise and Mr Putin and his war of aggression as a threat. That was not the case over the last years. The European Union was partially paralyzed by Mr Orban's vetoes. And we expect now a conservative, a very strong government in Budapest, but at the same time a pro-European government. And it will help us to overcome this paralysis that has lasted too long. So on the issue specifically of Ukraine, it is likely that he is going to unlock that loan that the EU wants to send to Kiev. But it's not a complete departure, is it, from what Victor Orban was promoting before? Because Peter Madziar still opposes Ukraine's fast-track entry to the EU, for example, and still opposes sending arms to Kiev. Well, as far as the entry of Ukraine into EU is concerned, you know, you have a wide range of different opinions inside European member countries. And he will made up his mind that I'm pretty much sure after he has taken office as soon as possible. Second thing is Peter has made it clear, very clear that he will still rely on Russian oil because he will buy the oil where it is the cheapest. But at the same time, he has clearly indicated he does not want to be the bad guy of European Union. So I expect him, for example, to lift the Hungarian veto against the funding for Ukraine. He will certainly not deliver weapons to the country, but there are so many European countries prepared to do so. And what we want to give is a clear-cut signal that the European Union is able to act unanimously whenever it is required, according to our treatise. So you are confident that the relationship between Brussels and Budapest can be repaired somewhat? What about within Hungary itself? Do you think that Peter Madziar will be able to unpick everything that Viktor Orbán has done during his 16 years in power? Well, we will see. He has legal margin of maneuver that is needed for that. We will carefully watch what he is doing. But here is the elected prime minister. He is a conservative prime minister, but this is not a disgrace. We have many conservative prime ministers, pro-European, pro-Western prime ministers, and he will organize the government in a way that respects international obligations, that respects human rights and that respects pluralism. Peter has been a member of the European Parliament for a couple of years and he has done a great job. So he enjoys a lot of confidence. How much of a warning do you think his victory is to other populist parties across Europe? Do you see this moment as a turning point for them? Well, maybe this is indeed the peak against the populist parties in Europe and we should not forget that the Hungarian people have voted so overwhelmingly in favor of Peter, despite the fact that President Trump and Vice President D.G. Vance have supported Viktor Orbán repeatedly. I believe that even Mr Trump's unpredictable behavior over the last couple of months has helped achieving government change in Hungary and this will have long lasting consequences for the political landscape in Europe as such. Peter Altmaier, former German MP and former federal minister for economic affairs and energy in Germany. Thank you very much. Now to an alarming finding in sub-Saharan Africa where the charity WaterAid says mothers are around 150 times more likely to die from maternal sepsis than those in Europe or North America. Maternal sepsis is a life-threatening reaction to an infection during pregnancy, childbirth or in the following months. The condition is linked to a lack of proper sanitation in healthcare settings. That's a particular problem in Zambia as the BBC's Anita Nacongay reports. Isabel is just 23 years old. She's sitting hunched over in a stool outside the house she shares with her grandmother, the son beating down on her, her face gaunt and grief-stricken. She's living through a mother's worst nightmare. Her first baby was born on the 10th of March of this year, but he survived less than 48 hours. I just saw the condition of the child change it. He developed a high temperature. He stopped breastfeeding and was disnoic. We took him to health facilities, but he later died. Isabel's newborn was showing signs of sepsis, a life-threatening reaction to an infection that causes the body to attack its own organs. The doctors told her that his death was caused by exposure from a local clinic that lacked basic sanitation facilities. Here in Zambia, according to WaterAid, 98.8% of local healthcare facilities lack basic sanitation facilities to be used on patients before and after childbirth. Here in Mazabuka, local clinic Amin, the showers in the toilets don't work. In fact, the shower is being used as a storage. Clean, safe water is vital in pregnancy and childbirth, as Rachel Modenda, a midwife, for the last 13 years, explains. The mother has to wash hands. The mother has to bath after delivery. If that is not done properly, it means that the infection will set in. According to government policy, we are supposed to observe mothers for 48 hours after delivery. Now, because we have inadequate running water, and so we observe them for six hours and we discharge them. In the town of Monze, an hours drive away, mothers here said they would draw water from a dirty dam when they didn't have access to clean water, as 32-year-old Pashas Jemima tells us. After I gave birth, I was still bleeding. I needed a bath but was forced to collect water, which was dirty. I used it to bathe and drink it. It wasn't good for my body. In its recent report, WaterAid said Sub-Saharan Africa has the highest number of cases with one in nine women experiencing maternal sepsis. Yet, according to the report, the solutions are clear, affordable and proven. Yanco Mataya, WaterAid's country director in Zambia, explained more. Our recent report actually confirms that investing in water sanitation and hygiene is a cost-efficient way of tackling the issue of sepsis. And that in itself can translate into as much as 50% reduction in illness and death that's related to maternal sepsis. With that said, we can see from our study that as little as $1 per capita can translate into the change that we want to see. And that $1 is three times much more cheaper than actually treating the sepsis. The BBC reached out to Zambia's Ministry of Health to speak about this issue, but they have yet to respond. It did recently say on social media that it was launching a nationwide initiative to expand access to water, sanitation and hygiene in healthcare facilities, aiming to tackle associated infections. But those words will be little comfort to Isabel, who is struggling to come to terms with the loss of her baby. That was the BBC's Anita Nacongay reporting. You're listening to the BBC World Service. This is NewsHour. You're listening to NewsHour with me, Leila Nathu. We're live from the BBC World Service. Let's return to our top story today, the ousting of Hungary's Viktor Orbán in Sunday's election after 16 years in power. Let's go live to the BBC's Regina Vardionathan in Budapest. Yeah, I'm still here and the Prime Minister-elect Petr Maja is still speaking to international journalists at the Slightly Solace Conference Room that I was in earlier. I'll say, Leila, they have given us some nice cake and coffee. Now, he's still fielding questions and one of the big challenges and one of the things people have been asking him about is how he can represent the country across the board. He was given a huge mandate in that vote with record turnout. But of course, there are still supporters of Viktor Orbán here who want to make sure that their needs aren't ignored. Petr Maja is saying that he will represent every Hungarian, not just those who voted for me. He said, well, bridging divides though will be a challenge and I've been speaking to David Guaidosh, a Hungarian journalist with the Austrian newspaper, Depress. And also, Matthias Kohan, a foreign policy writer with Hungary's pro-Orban conservative weekly Mandina publication. To get their perspectives on what's happened in the last 24 hours. Well, in democracies, losing and not having your favorite party in power is normal. But also, in Hungary, this is not just not going to be just a change of government. It's also going to be a change of direction in massive terms. And it's going to be an end to policies that I loved, that I personally am attached to. And this is going to be something that I think is going to end up being painful even for those people who supported TISA for reasons that are pretty unrelated to the actual policies of Fideszware. Thank you, Matthias. Well, let's speak now to David Guaidosh. He's a Hungarian journalist for the Austrian newspaper, Depress. Morning, David. How do you see this victory for TISA? Well, I see it as the victory of young people, of people who didn't believe lies anymore, that the government media and the government spread and they celebrated big time as we saw it yesterday. Yeah, indeed. Now, Matthias, what went wrong for Viktor Orban and his campaign? Because clearly something major went wrong. This was not just a small victory for TISA, it was a landslide. So I think the key thing that happened is Peter Mojira has been able to mobilize people who have never voted, either because they were young voters. Everybody puts this in terms of this being a victory for the young people. David just did this was not young people. This was former undecideds across the board thinking that this is the right time to end Viktor Orban's rule. And what I think the key reason for that was it's structural and it was economic voting. When I spoke to a lot of people through the campaign, I've only been here of course for a few days or so, but one thing that really resonated with the younger people I spoke to, David, was the idea that in many ways this was a vote, not just about Hungarian domestic politics, but about this country's relationship with the European Union. Arwin's comments just then we spoke for a lot longer, but when I first met him on Friday, this was all about the fact that Viktor Orban was so close to President Putin. Yes, and not just Putin, President Trump and all sorts of questionable world powers. Of course, this is a legitimate direction to take to talk to every side and to be close to all sorts of world leaders as a small country. It was something that Fidesz was pushing very hard for such a small country to be on a world stage, but that wasn't enough in the end for Fidesz, mostly because Russia is closed. I think Hungarians probably remembered the revolution of 1956 and they remembered that from the east not many good things came to Hungary in the recent centuries. Matt, yes, was the big problem the company that Viktor Orban kept? No, I would push back against that idea really. But so many people I spoke to said he was. I do know that. I do know that. I think those are the people who would have voted for any opposition candidate at any former election, any previous election during Viktor Orban's rule. I think the key reason was that the economy has not gone well in the last four years and Fidesz's foreign policy only makes sense to people if it's accompanied by good results in the Hungarian economy, which was not the case. And this kind of delegitimized foreign policy. Foreign policy was not the cause. Foreign policy was seen as part of an overall economic failure that Fidesz produced in the last four years. And so many people that I spoke to say this is a moment now to feel proud to be Hungarian again. Because you were in Budapest. This was not the main driver of voting in any other areas. But it was a driver for the people. I'm just saying this is something that anybody else could have done also in the last previous elections. David, your thoughts on those comments from Matt Yes. Well, I think it's of course a huge mixture. Of course, Budapest is different, Terran, and as a countryside. But if you talk about economics, I think it was an economic vote and economics went down in the whole world. And Hungary is very dependent on German and carbon-efficient, which also went down. But if you talk about economics, I think people also had less money in their pockets. And when they saw Orban's son-in-law becoming a billionaire, a dollar billionaire in the last 10 years, through a lot of states, contracts and very shady deals. And now leaving the country with his wife and with his money to New York and Dubai. And a lot of other close billionaire friends of Orban, his father and his childhood friend, Mey Sarosh. Then this economic vote, as you say, was certainly one, but one where they felt that the government doesn't do enough and promises things and does very different things. And I would still try to put this point down that Russia was a thing, especially among young people, was not only in Budapest, because they have internet and they see what happens in Russia now. They see what happens in Ukraine, but also they know that in Russia as an oppositional person, you go to prison only if you post something on Instagram, which is slightly against Putin. And I think they saw that this country is going slightly in that direction, that the government is lying and running huge negative campaigns against opponents, against young people, against politicians, and didn't want this direction. So, leaving the projected seats, share Matias, 138 for Tisa and just 55 for Fidesz. I mean, this is essentially a wipeout for your party. You're going to have to rethink how you recover from this. I mean, I know other parties around the world have had these moments as well, but this is a moment for you and your colleagues. And it's a tough one, isn't it? It is. And it's a wipeout, definitely, as you've mentioned, in terms of the seats won in parliament. It's not that much of a wipeout in terms of the actual vote tally. We've talked about the Hungarian electoral system when we had an interview. This favors the winner massively and even 10-point wins translate to supermajorities in Hungary. Which was changed by Fidesz. Which was changed by Fidesz. Which is not something I'm pushing back against. I'm just saying, so the Hungarian conservative movement is alive. It has taken a beating. And it's time for a much needed cleansing that was due to happen after the election, no matter what happens to happen now along the lines of what David described. And maybe if I may add, I think the problem that you can ask my dear colleague what his party thinks, I think that was really something that people are annoyed by. That Fidesz built a media empire which reached across not only like former private companies where you work, but all the state media, state radio, all the local newspapers of all little cities. They all were run by basically one company and formed into an Orwellian crazy superpower which pushed lies and propaganda. That was David Gajos there and you also heard from Matthias Kohan in Budapest. Many thanks to our team in Hungary. That's it from Nizá.
