An Unlikely Foursome with Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes

Hi, it's Jill Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter Podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And today I'm talking with my dear friend, Krista Williams. It can change you in the best way possible. Dance with the change, dance with the breakdowns. The embodiment of Pisces intuition with Capricorn power moves. So I'm like delusionally proud of my chart. Listen to the Spirit Daughter Podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. The human body is a beautiful machine, and keeping it running means understanding how it actually works. Which is why this podcast will kill you is doing a multi-part series on sleep. What it's for, why our bodies don't follow neat rules, and why modern life is not helping. When you consider what we know about sleep in humans, there's one rule that comes out. We are predictably unpredictable sleepers. We'll continue exploring how the body works with a multi-part series on digestive function. So listen to our newest series which runs January 20th through February 17th with new episodes every Tuesday. From the Exactly Right Network, listen to This Podcast Will Kill You on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. When segregation was a law, one mysterious black club owner, Charlie Fitzgerald had his own rules. Segregation in the day, integration at night. It was like stepping on another world. Was he a businessman? A criminal? a hero. Charlie was an example of power. They had to crush him. Charlie's Place, from Atlas Obscura and Visit Myrtle Beach. Listen to Charlie's Place on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Ryder Strong, and I have a new podcast called The Red Weather. In 1995, my neighbor, Anna Traynor, disappeared from a commune. It was nature and trees and praying and drugs. So no, I am not your guru. Back then, I lied to everybody. They have had this case for 30 years. I'm going back to my hometown to uncover the truth. Listen to The Red Weather on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, Amber. Hi, Lola. Welcome to An Unlikely Affair. All right. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of An Unlikely Affair. I'm sitting to the right, or actually I'm sitting to the left. You're to my right. I'm your right hand today, baby. Yeah, you are. And I'm so excited for this podcast today. We are here with Amy and TJ. Hi, guys. Hello. We're happy to be here. Oh my goodness. This is a nice setup. This is great. This is what it's like to be on you guys' podcast. We'll come all the time. This is lovely. Don't tempt us with a good time. This is lovely. We're not used to this. Yeah, the light is great in here. Amy and TJ were at our unlikely affair party. And we were talking at this round table, which by the way, thank you guys so much for coming. I know you guys, thank you. Flew in and had like the longest day. But Amy said to us, you guys have such a crazy story. I was like, so do you guys. We should talk about it. Touche. Touche. Takes one to know one. So we're very excited to have you guys on. that was last night isn't it another thing that party we found each other and it looked like all of us were trying to find the exit like at the end of the night you all caught us when we were trying to leave we caught y'all and everybody was ready to go and I think I said you guys should probably leave now we took the hint yeah I was like you guys have been up and you have to wake up at 1.30 in the morning like you mama bear came out and said okay it's time to go to bed that's funny but yes that was good advice and we took it well we're thrilled that you did because I mean I you both have children older how old are your kids amy um i have a 23 year old daughter and a 19 year old daughter wow and we have the my little one is 12 i keep saying 12 she just turned 13 in january wow oh my gosh i know part of my language but bitch you look good thank you i will take that language any day yeah and you know what's cool because i know you all have some shared children experiences. We'll get into that. But my daughters grew up babysitting Sabine. So they all knew each other very well before we even became romantically involved. Let's start from the beginning. Yeah, let's start from the beginning. What even is the beginning? We actually aren't sure. It gets a little foggy, doesn't it? Yes. Kind of a disassociate. You're like, I don't know. I'm not claiming that. Trauma can do that. Trauma can do that. We have that experience for sure. So you said this is the third go around for you both. You're correct? Both are married twice, yes. Okay, well, third time is the charm. My dad always said he only made it to his second wife. So I don't know. I don't know how he feels about that. And you said that your kids grew up watching your child. I have to imagine then that you guys knew each other's spouses at the time. Yeah, we, I mean, you just naturally have to, but there wasn't a lot of, we didn't spend a lot of time together. There was no relationship with the other's spouses at the time at all. We would run into each other. I would say maybe in the span of the eight years that we were just friends, I bet you we crossed paths at social functions. I could count on one hand. That's how little people made a lot more about like, oh, somehow we were all friends. We were not. tj and i were always the friends and to your point about the wondering about the kids her kids would just come over and babysit it wasn't like i was going over there you know so no i needed a babysitter much i was one two at the time when they started babysitting my kids were teenagers and so it worked out here you go were you guys at abc together yes okay so just okay that makes sense and you know i feel like there are times where you and again i've i can count on one hand how many times I have been in a relationship or even leaned in that direction, but the friendship part and then the comfortability I find is when shit gets real. Obviously that's what you guys found as well. Yeah, we just, you know what? We were two people who always found each other in a crowded room. And I was like, oh, there's my guy. And he was just always that friend who I knew I could go, you know, when you have to make small talk with people and you're in these functions. And even when we would go, we would get assigned to go cover things together. It was like, oh, thank God it's TJ because we just got each other. We love just hanging and we knew we could trust each other on the air. And that's very rare in media. Usually people are trying to one-up each other, steal the spotlight from another. So if you've got two people on a story, it oftentimes becomes competitive. Wow. And he and I never had that. We always were there to make the other look better. And it was just such a rare chemistry that we had where we just trusted each other and we made each other better. And so we just, and we liked each other, which is also, I think kind of rare sometimes in the business we were in. Yeah. And I'm sure at some point, both of you guys clocked and said, you know, like, wow, they, that person just makes me feel like myself, or I feel so like, did you consciously recognize the difference you felt when say you were with another, like a co-host or co-anchor or even back at home. Oh my God, dear lady, we were begging and pleading with them to let us work together. Like we were, please, please, will you all please allow us to work? Because we became, let's say in the last three years, at least before we started dating, we were best, we were each other's best friend, like legit best friend. She helped me through some of the worst hell I've gone through in my life as a friend and got me on a good path. So that foundation of friendship was there now. And we didn't realize how valuable that was in a relationship because I've never had that in a relationship. Neither have I. But I am saying I have I argue before we ever start dating, I said, sweetheart, this I cannot lose our friendship. So we have to make a decision now. If we're going to date, I cannot lose you as a friend. So if you think this is going to cost us the friendship. I don't want to date you. We absolutely had that conversation. That's true. Yes. It's so important to be friends first. And I think that's what I'm realizing now going out and dating. I think I told you this before. It's like I go out and I look up the person that I'm sitting across with and can I actually be friends with this person? Not romantically. Can I just, can we be best friends? Do I see that like comfortability with each other? And I realize it's so important. It sounds like you guys had that from the beginning. what's the thing you like what's the thing you like to do most right we eat we go to movies we watch Netflix you lay in bed if you don't if whoever if I ask you who do you want to do that with and it's not your partner there's a problem there's a huge problem that should be the number all that stuff a basketball game I want to watch a go-to or anything she's number one I got my boys she's got her girls and yes there are moments for that but all the best fun adventure vacation you name it, get drunk off my ass. You name, what's the thing you want? Who do you want there? It's her. That's a friend thing. That's not a romantic thing. I want my friend there. And it's true. I'm so obsessed right now. I want all of it. I'm sitting going, oh my God. I don't think people believed us. And I think it's fair to say, and we've talked about this, there were always rumors that something was going on between us because we got along so well. And we were always like, absolutely not. It was the truth. We were just friends who really liked each other. I never even let my head or my heart even consider him as anything other than my friend. It just, I was in that lane. That was just where I was. And so I was bifurcating. I wasn't even acknowledging how important that friendship was. And I did know that in other relationships, I never had that, but I always thought that was normal. I'm like, I have my girlfriends. Those are my best friends. That's who I tell everything to. And I used a lot of times, not used, but I leaned on my girlfriends and those friendships to distract from not actually having a relationship that I wanted to be in or I wanted to. So that should have been a huge red flag, but I didn't know anything different. And it wasn't until it all clicked with TJ where I was like, wait, this is actually incredible. the person who I like being around maybe actually could be the best romantic partner ever and it took us a little while it was weird at first we were such good friends it was weird I think the first time he I brushed my teeth in front of him he was like I don't even know what's happening right now and it sounds silly but me brushing my teeth in front of him it gets real in there tongue is out spitting but it's like drippage we're just friends who hang This is way too intimate. Right, right, right, right. And there was a lot of nerves because we actually, he told me he loved me before he ever even held my hand. So we had such an emotional connection where there was nothing physical between us. And so it was an, I've never had that experience where it's like now when it was time where we actually could be physical because we were in a romantic relationship, it was scary. I was like, this is strange. Was there, were you intimidated by that? Because sometimes when you have such a beautiful thing happening and you're like, now I got to perform in the bedroom. Yes. And now he's got to see me naked. Like, is he going to still feel the same? That's super vulnerable. Yeah. And I'm in my late forties at the time. So how are you feeling, TJ? Were you worried? You're like, I'm ready to go. I can't wait. Hey, look. All right. Look, if we're just different, they're not sitting there being like, I wonder how she's going to feel about this. No, I didn't have that. They're just not like that. They're not in their head like this. Girls are in our head the whole time. 100%. Does he see that? Does he see this? Will he notice that my left boob droops more than my right? I don't know. That could be a deal breaker. Exactly. Exactly. Well, no, I didn't have that. I don't know. Maybe, like you said, guys just don't think about that. So I wasn't concerned. But as crazy as it sounds, we ran together for so long. I sit next to her at work. She's wearing tight outfits. She's wearing running pants. I had a pretty good idea of what she looked like. Oh, you know what I'm aware of. You were clocking the whole time. I'm just, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying. Don't put words in my mouth, Mala. I was aware. I mean, I would suggest you are wearing an outfit today that would lend to letting people know what your figure is. She's wearing a larger jacket. I'm saying I had more. Don't make me take off my clothes. I'm saying it was simple as that to wear. No, of course, that wasn't a concern. but we were very familiar with each other. Yeah, we actually had a very specific conversation because I was nervous. Look, I'm a breast cancer survivor and I had a double mastectomy and I had reconstructive surgery, but it is not the same. And you do not look the same and you have scars. And I actually broke down and cried. Redemption bar. At redemption bar. Because he said, are you nervous? Because we were talking about taking the next step. Yeah. And I started to, I started to cry. And I just said, I'm just afraid because I'm not who I used to be. And I just am afraid because I felt like I had damaged goods and I didn't know how he was going to take that, if that was going to take away from any interest he had in me physically because I look different And so I was nervous about that 100 Life after cancer is nerve wracking sometimes And I sitting here with you all I haven thought about it this way before And it's a little upsetting to think that how everybody views our relationship. Like early on, at least, people thought these two were involved in this hot affair. Don't get, and please, we were the, as far as morning show anchors go, we were the hot ones. We were the, in all seriousness, I mean, we're just the younger group. When you guys got together, I'd be lying if I said I didn't masturbate to it I'm sorry, I'm just going to put that out there What other morning show anchors have you masturbated to? Nobody, just you guys That's my point So with that in mind What I'm saying, we get that people think Oh yeah, they got hot and they had a hot night And they did this and they threw away their marriages That conversation, you make such a good point It was so deliberate Like she took and we took time We did And something that serious about breast cancer and what she looks like and the deliberation we took before we took a step to have a relationship together. That is important. This is so special to us. And to think that anyone thought that we were just blowing up our lives or we were out of marriages before that conversation even took place. That doesn't make for an interesting headline. Exactly. And you said that as a woman who has been there and done that. You know how it goes. People take control of the narrative. They don't care that you're two people who are in love and with children involved. It does not matter what is going to get the most clicks. It's not. Oh, we know that. Of course you do. You know better than anybody. It is very hard when people who don't know you in the slightest take control of your narrative and then you never get it back. You never get it back. You will always be. And, and I, Hey, I'm, I think you're both great. but I'm telling you when you see your names, you guys are the anchor. It's almost like your careers, which is not okay. This is not okay at all. And I hope that I'm not offending you by saying this but once something is out there, you can't change it. Oh, I have a scarlet letter. Like, oh, I mean, it was- And I relate to that. Shame, shame, shame. You know, like Cersei in Game of Thrones. And that's how it felt for a whole year, every day. Hi, this is Jo Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver. The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're going to have a terrible time with men. Actor, storyteller, and unapologetic Aquarian visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives. and I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius like are misunderstood. A sun and Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership. He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms, on different houses, in different places, but just an embracing of the is-ness of it all. If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart-side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life, This episode is a must listen. 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And we're not just lawyers, we're also husband and wife. It makes for some pretty entertaining episodes. Listen to Legally Brunette on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. After that, after all of these headlines, how did you guys stay so intact as a couple? I felt like now hearing your story from the beginning, Like your guys' foundation was so strong, there was nothing that could possibly break it. But if I'm wrong, please. No, I think it had to be. Man, God, I shudder to think if we were not already solidly friends, you can't survive. That's evidence of how good we were. There's no way. The shit we went, there's no way you could survive that. I know. With just somebody you're starting a relationship or not. God breaks people. Yes. It does because they would individually go after TJ in a different way than they would go after me. And so then they almost are pulling you apart. Like, and that can be incredibly damaging. We had to stick together as a team and face it as a team. But we were, I know you guys know what this feels like, but we were, I felt like we were under assault. We had folks camped out and just chasing and looking for a weird facial expression. If we were smiling, we were flaunting our love and our ex's faces. If we were cold and had a look on our face, we were fighting and things were about to end. And it didn't matter what your face looks like, what you were doing, what you were wearing. They found a way to make it negative. And it just became where you got so freaked out by it. We ended up being hermits in our apartment, unable to leave. And then if we did leave, it was hell. Were the kids affected at all? I mean, in terms of like walking outside of their apartments? Really, I know. I'll tell you an interesting story. I know you guys know the paparazzi, but there was a point where I was trying to pick up my car. I had a parking garage next to my apartment and both of my daughters were out and there was a paparazzi out there just taking pictures, taking pictures. And my older daughter thought stupidly that she could go talk to him and say, hey, you got your picture, please leave. Like, this isn't fair. My sister's 16 years old at the time. She's a minor. Please stop taking pictures of her. And he just looked at her and didn't react. So she came back over. He starts taking pictures even more. so she puts up her hand like stop they use that picture and blurred her hand to make it look like she flicked them off that is exactly the kind of stuff they do and i told her i was like you just learned what happens when you engage they will come back and double down and make it even worse wow that's disgusting i'm so sorry that she had to go through that how what was their reaction during all of all this i mean you're yeah the kids um were did you sit them down and talk to them? Like what was, what your ex's reactions? Like. We didn't have the opportunity to, we were blindsided. You were just outed. You're completely outed. I was giving a speech in DC and he was on the set of Good Morning America when it all came out. You asked about our daughter, well, my daughter, how she was affected. She, this all happened and came out November 30th of 2022, right? Okay. My daughter was aware of the divorce in August of 2022 because I moved out the house. She knew the divorce was happening. Yeah. But this wasn't a big, that part wasn't a shock. That wasn't anything. It was what the media did that was intense. We was, and we've talked about this and we were blindsided, but I don't know if we didn't take the threat seriously, but we were. We were threatened. We knew this was, someone threatened specifically to do this to us. specifically threatened to do what happened in the media as a part of, I guess, is it blackmail or extortion? It wasn't, is it extortion? It was blackmail. They wanted us to admit that we were dating and we just weren't ready to yet. We knew, obviously we were co-anchors on Good Morning America. We had a conversation about it. Should we go tell ABCPR? And our thoughts were at the time, let's get our divorces finalized and then go. And so we were not like hiding, but we weren't broadcasting that we were dating. And we actually had a plan right after the Christmas break. We're going to go into ABC and say, hey, just want to let you know. But everyone around me, like my close friends, my family, and my daughters all knew I was in the middle of a divorce. This was in the summer. Yeah, end of July. Like my ex moved out of my apartment. So to have it be that many months later for them to pretend or act as though they caught us having an affair was so unfair. It was completely, absolutely not true. But it was intentional. It was intentional. This was a targeted, a specific plan to make this be the case. Was the plan to get you two off the air? The plan was to humiliate and possibly, yes, to get us to lose jobs. But absolutely, this was a part of a plan to get us to behave a certain way. We didn't and we lost. The threat came November 4th or so, I think it was, two days later was the first picture that was taken of us. So they made good on the threat. How do you stomach that? I mean, how do you go out into the world after that and believe in humanity when people are capable of doing that? I mean, that had to have been just such a shock to your system where you're looking around so disoriented. You're the happiest you've ever been in your life. That is true. And at the top of our careers. And at the top of your careers. And then someone comes in with a fucking bulldozer to shit all over it, knock it down. I mean, that is heartbreaking. Yes, I will say this. I had never, before TJ, TJ and then my daughters, but like in terms of being in love, the only, the love of my life, other than my daughters, was my job. It was the one thing that I knew I was good at, that I loved and I was proud of. It was my identity. And so someone who wanted to do harm knew that. And TJ, I would say probably the same for you, right? This was your passion. Yeah, this was, we were finally healthy and happy. As crazy as that sounds, that when you all in the country saw us having the worst moment of our life, it was happening because we were having the best moment of our life. We were finally out of marriages we shouldn't have been in. We were finally getting ourselves healthy and happy and stable and getting kids settled. We were as happy individually as we had ever been in our lives. You found your other 100% to make the 200. You had fought the battle of your life. Correct. I mean, and honestly, I will say this. This is not being dramatic. my cancer actually played a huge role. We, like TJ was saying, we made a decision to be together. This wasn't some lustful night where we just said, fuck it. Let's just see what happens. Let's get drunk. And this was so intentional. We had so many conversations. We had to acknowledge that we were feeling a certain way about each other and then say, what are we going to do about it? And then we said, we both have to go back and figure out what we're doing. We have to, we have to move forward in a respectful, correct way. And that is how we managed everything. And we actually, I wanted to be able to look in the mirror and say, we did the right thing. We did right by everyone. And so to have been managing all of that and dealing with divorce, I knew this was going to be difficult for my children. And we knew it was going to be difficult for TJ's child. But I told myself, if you knew your cancer came back, and I have a friend who I watch fight every day and live her best life because no one is guaranteed tomorrow. But when you've gone through cancer, you know, it can come back that threat of recurrence. And I thought if I walked in for my blood test and they said, it's back, how would you live differently? What would you do? And I was like, I would be with TJ. Oh my gosh. And it absolutely had an impact on the decision that we made because it's hard. It's hard to make all the choices that we made, but we were trying to do the right thing and live our best lives and show our daughters that you can be happy and you can do it the right way. For those decisions, it's great. Those decisions were made after we both had made individual decisions to get divorced. I didn't know a divorce was going to happen. She didn't know mine was going to happen. No. Wow. She didn't know. There was no planning. Okay, you go first. We didn't know we were going to be together. I'm not going to get out of a marriage for the sake of maybe I'll start dating. I really want what you guys have. Yeah. And I didn't think I did. I had sworn off men. I was like, I going to be single for the rest of my life They add so much drama I don know As far as I don know if we got lucky I don't know. I really, really don't. The advice I give to people now is it's okay to find out, like figure it out now. It's okay. Like why are we wasting time with something you know is not going to work out? It's okay to just, my mom used to tell me, it's better to find out in five months than five years. That's some of the best advice I've ever gotten. That is genius advice. Something so simple. It is so profound. When I was in college, it's better to find out now. Not cry. Don't cry long, but go ahead. Congratulations. You got out of that shit. Yeah, for real. But you can tell when you guys are together, it seems very effortless. That's friendship, man. We just know each other. I feel it. You guys don't even have to say anything. You guys have this- We know each other. But I will tell you that year, and again, this is not me being dramatic. That year, 2022 going into 2023, that was the hardest year of my life, including the year I went to chemo, had multiple surgeries, had the breast cancer diagnosis. That year, that assault, that emotional assault, the assault on our reputations, on our credibility, that was the hardest year of my life because our daughters, and mine were older, so I think it was more difficult because they were more aware. My youngest was in high school. My oldest had just started NYU. They're walking past the New York Post. They're walking past these tabloids. They see the headlines. They hear everyone talking and social media. They were devastated. They were devastated. They were hurt. And we had not told our daughters. We say that was our biggest mistake of not being transparent about our relationship with our children. We just, I wanted to give them a little bit more time. You know, they were getting used to the new normal. Annalise and I were living alone together in our new apartment. Ava had her apartment at NYU, but I just wanted them to get settled for a few months And I think that's fair. That's our right as private people to be able to give our kids a couple months to breathe before we said, hey, by the way. And because they knew TJ and Sabine knew me and we all knew each other. I was like, let's just give them a little bit of time to get used to this new normal. And that's really why we were trying for our kids sake to keep it quiet just for a little bit to give them space because they were in the middle of divorces. Also, why are we making an announcement? Please keep in mind here. We didn't know we were going to end up together. There was no reason for us to make an announcement that we were dating because it's like a why are we hard launching a month in? There was no reason for that. Right. We're still figuring it out. We're finding our our groundwork. And we also hadn't made announcements about our divorces. We this is the other mistake. Yeah. We didn't realize that apparently as public figures, people give a shit, need to hear about everything going on in your life. So if we had made an announcement that she was getting a divorce and my divorce came later and people found out two months later they're dating now. Okay. Yeah. It doesn't count because you didn't let all of us know. Didn't let us know. Exactly. Even though, yes, the people who were important in my life already knew. I mean, I had draft. I thought my divorce was going to be finalized by December. It was quick. It was ready to go. We had lawyers. Everything was done. I think you had lawyers, too, at the time. Yeah. Of course. I've been going through a divorce for four months. The frustrating thing about what ended up happening to us professionally was that it was, it, it took, it, we could prove it. Not that we had to, but we could, it, we could easily prove like, hello, we're not in this affair cheating on our spouses. We actually have the proof. You want to talk to my divorce attorney? Do you want to talk about when I hired her? We, it was not even a question. We had, you were living in another apartment. I was literally living somewhere. I mean, it was, I was moving the day it came out was the day Annie and I were moving into our new apartment with all the paparazzi changing. So, I mean, it, everything was scheduled and happening. It wasn't like it happened because we got photographed together. Everything was already like far along in the proceedings. It's just. Yeah. Someone was out, out to get you. Yes. Wow. That just makes me sick. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to. No, I just, hearing you say that, Amy, I just realized we are so focused on the wrong things in this country. And I know I will speak for myself only. It's just so twisted. There's so many criminals and with all the Epstein file shit that's going on and all of the political, I mean, everything that's going on, not within the United States, in the world. And they choose to focus on two people that are with children trying to get their lives together. you guys were trying to do right. And then you get, you get fired. You get fired by, by, by, it's just, what was that? What was that like when they brought you guys in? Did they bring you in together or separately? They probably had to. It was a Friday night. I got called to the Empire Hotel. Who did you, you went somewhere else. Somewhere else, yeah. They had us. Did you know what was, what was coming? No, because when they pulled us apart actually on Friday and had us talk and they asked us very specific questions about the, the timeline, everything. They then told us, we're going to support you. Like I left Friday night saying we have a job. I didn't hear that. I did. I heard, I heard, I said, what do you think? They're like, look, everything, it sounds like this is fine. Like we wish you had told us ahead of time, but we understand now things are making sense. And then, so I was like, cool. And we were supposed to be on the air on, we had been on the air after it happened, I think on a Wednesday came out. Can I ask one thing very quickly? So the person who were obviously not saying their name, the person who you feel was blackmailing or out to get you had nothing to do with the news channel. Correct. Got it. Okay. Keep going. It was. Correct. So we actually were back on the air for the first two days. We had phone calls with people at ABC and they at the time were like, you know what? You're right. You've technically done nothing wrong. You're in the middle of divorces. You're your own, you know, private citizen. What you do on your own time is what you do on your own time. and so I felt pretty confident that we were good we came back Thursday and Friday then Friday night they took us and had us do some more investigative questioning right so we were like okay but it all went well as far as my experience went how did you oh it was fine but I didn't walk out of there feeling I had support of any kind you didn't feel supported at all you left feeling support I did oh not in the oh there was never a moment from the time that article came out that I felt support from ABC or Disney. That's so interesting. Not once from anybody. Now, they're not supposed to. This is not a criticism. What I'm saying is they're looking out for ABC. They're looking out for GMA. They're looking out for their brand. They're looking out for shareholders. They're looking out. Fine. They're supposed to not support me. But it was pretty shocking how quickly that nobody even asked, well, what's going on? Or what happened? Or how are you doing? There was none. It was boom. But why are they not supposed to support you? You didn't do anything wrong. I get it. It's a big business. It's a big machine. Disney. Yes. At the end of the day, when they love you, they love you. But when you no longer serve your purpose, goodbye. But again, see, that's the thing. We were serving a great purpose, but Twitter was talking about us in a way that Disney didn't like. Okay. Well, there you go. The frustrating thing though, is if I, and I believe this, if ABC and Disney had been able to say, and by the way, we both look, and I'm not naive enough to think, oh, I was so loyal to them. They should be loyal to me. But we were their go-to workhorses who would fly anywhere, go anywhere. I didn't miss one day while I was on chemo. We loved that job. We loved that company. We loved that show and we still do. And so I felt like, and this is my naive part, that we had the receipts. We could prove that we did nothing wrong. So I was of the belief, well, the truth is on our side, so we're going to be okay. Yeah, right. But something happened over the weekend and Monday morning, we were getting up to go into work, get a call, don't come into work. We're taking you off the air while we- Effective immediately. Further investigate. Oh, further investigate. This isn't you being fired. This is just us giving it a beat, letting it die down. I said, please don't do this because at that point, only the tabloids had reported it. The New York Times, the Washington Post, any reputable organization had not reported on it because it was just, it was it was fun let us say this that weekend uh after the thing went down we went on the air two days that weekend we spent the weekend with crisis managers on the phone with a lot of news outlets and the mainstream news outlets refused to do the story because it felt smucky because you're getting divorced and now you're dating okay who gives a fuck right right yeah there's no relevance all passed tmz loved it though i'm sure they all passed as soon as a network now has suspended it. Two anchors. Now it's a story, a mainstream story. And that's what I begged. I begged. I said, please don't do this. Now you are going to make it such a much bigger story. If you all just said, we did the investigation. Turns out both of them are in the middle of divorces and had been for months. We, we support, um, where whatever they choose to do, you have to say that whatever, but just say we, and, and that was verifiable. And so I don't understand why they wouldn't have given us just that because if they had done that none of the rest would have happened right none of it none of the main we to then when that happened when they took us off the air now we're on every single news channel to see your face to see oh my god and then the network looks at it and it's like well now it's huge and it's like exactly you caused that you did that and look some of the bosses at the time who aren't there anymore did get criticism for that for that being a bad move for not handling this the right way. Look, that is all either. I mean, it's all said and done. We had to get over it. We had to get past it. Yeah, you do, but that's hard. It was hard. How do you still want to show up and do your job now? Because it's like, obviously you haven't lost that love for storytelling or journalism. We're doing it on our terms. We're working our asses off, but we're our own bosses now. And we love iHeart. And we have just honestly, the iHeart family, I could get emotional because when you feel like everybody turned their back on you, the moment you aren't of use to them, they just completely discard what you've done and how hard you've worked to build a certain credibility and career. And so iHeart came in and said, we got you. And we believe in what you can still do and what you can still produce and you have value. And that was everything in that moment because I can only speak for myself. I felt so devalued and I had a lot, I had, I had to go back to therapy, like, and just figure it out. And it's all been good for me because you shouldn't have your job, be your identity. You shouldn't get your value from what you do. You should get your value from who you are and how you treat people. And so it was just a total, I've been on a course correct because of it. And I think we're at a place now where I can't say that I'm glad it happened, but I do think there was a reason why it did. And I'm a better person because of it. And I'm just so happy that we are where we are and our kids and our girls and our families, full support of us, full support. And we did lose friends. I did lose friends. You should have lost some of those fuckers. Seriously, there are some asses in there you shouldn't have. Yeah, that's okay. I don't think I lost any. Seriously. I know, That's amazing. I'm surrounded by a certain type of clan. I have very few people that I am close to. And you know it. I lost a friend. I hadn't thought about this. Did I lose a friend in this mess? I don't think I did. There were some colleagues I don't still deal with. I used to see every day. But you knew they were probably never friends to begin with. That wasn't that shocking. I didn't know in the beginning that I was going to be gaining a friend at some point. But I did. In my divorce. You're talking about me? Yeah, bitch. I'm talking about you. I love that. There's no one. I mean, yeah, it's amazing how life does that. You just never know. You don't. And it's such a testament to who you guys are and your values, both of you and your children and the strength. Like I'm just completely blown away. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, right? It's true. Thank you, Kelly Clarkson. It'll damn near kill you though. Yeah, yeah. I mean, no, but seriously, like we both had moments. I mean, and we can kind of laugh about it now, but there were days where I had never, ever had thoughts of wanting to just, for it to all be over. I've never had a feeling like that before in my life. And I did on multiple days in low moments. I actually, and that scared me so much. I was like, I have never felt like, I just want the pain to stop. I just want it to end. I can't live with this pain. Because it's one thing if you, a divorce is hard enough. Losing your job is hard enough. Losing your reputation is hard enough. Having it all be public is hard enough. Having it all happen at the same time and having your children, my adult children, being upset with me about how it all happened. Like, how could you let this happen? How could you get, how could you not know someone was taking a picture of you? Like those kinds of things. We're like, are you kidding me right now? I cannot deal with this. But it all happened at one time. And it just, it almost, it almost broke me. The part of that that got me is that it was happening and it was false. And there was nothing you could say or do. Everything you saw, everything that happened was a hundred percent lie that was specifically manipulated and done intentionally to do what it did. We lost. I mean, they won. I mean, for the folks, for the one folks out there listening, you beat us. You won. And we have your name. We have the emails, the documentation at our attorney's office. We could blast that out anytime we wanted to. But we have chosen not to because we don want this to all get started up again We don know well you don want impact to our daughters again which it certainly would be And we don we just not there but would that help us And they go oh okay We feel better about Amy and TJ now that we know this Well we should have put that out three years ago. Hi, this is Joe Interstein, host of the Spirit Daughter Podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver. The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're going to have a terrible time with men. Actor, storyteller, and unapologetic Aquarian visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives. And I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius are misunderstood. A sun and Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership. He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms, on different houses, in different places, but just an embracing of the is-ness of it all. If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart-side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life, this episode is a must-listen. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. A ambitious, well-intentioned, ferocious, and wealthy mother looks like in the Black community. This Women's History Month, the podcast Keep It Positive, Sweetie, celebrates the power of women choosing healing, purpose, and faith, even when life gets messy. Love is not a destination. You have to work on it every day. Keep It Positive, Sweetie, creates space for honest conversations on self-worth, love, growth, and navigating life with grace and grit led by women who uplift, inspire, and tell the truth out loud. I have several conversations with God and I know why it took 20 years. To hear this and more, listen to Keep It Positive, Sweetie on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is the biggest night in podcasting. The countdown is on to our 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards. Live from South by Southwest, March 16th, we'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative, talented creators in the industry. It's truly a who's who of the podcasting world. Creativity, knowledge, and passion will all be on full display. And the winner of the iHeart Podcast Award is... See all the nominees now at iHeart.com slash podcast awards. audible is a proud sponsor of the audible audio pioneer award explore the best selection of audiobooks podcasts and originals all in one easy app audible there's more to imagine when you listen sign up for a free trial at audible.com this is rider strong with a podcast called the red weather in 1995 my neighbor and a trainer disappeared from a commune it was nature and trees and praying and drugs. No, I am not your guru. Back then, I lied to everybody. They have had this case for 30 years. I'm going back to my hometown to uncover the truth. You can now binge all episodes of The Red Weather on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, tell me this. Do you feel that, you know, this happened in 2022 or in 2026? do you feel that obviously things have calmed down because that's what happens with time. But do you feel that people have come around to like really see you again and appreciate you? Yeah. And you all probably realize as well, we think the whole world is after us and hates you because you read a headline or something like that, but you go out in the world and there's the nicest people and everybody embraces you and it's just a totally different. So we were just caught up in that thing for a second to not be caught up in that. Yeah. Once we actually got out and started interacting again, we're like, oh, we're not. But it took a long time for us to get out. And you guys didn't leave New York, which is shocking. I would have been like, get me out of the city. The city's, you know, toxic. So everyone was telling us, get out of the city. I'm like, that sounds great. But I have a daughter who's a junior in high school and TJ had a daughter who was in elementary school. I can't leave. I can't go somewhere. Did I want to go and maybe go to my parents' house in Atlanta and go just bury my head? Yes, I did. But I couldn't because I was a mom. Wow. But it also showed that you're like, I'm standing in my truth and I'm not leaving. I didn't feel strong like that at all. I felt like I was under the sheets. But now looking back, you have to be so proud of yourself and like the woman that you are today because of that experience. And we talk about it all the time. Like there's the growth doesn't happen like when you get the pot of gold, right? The growth happens in those moments where you're in the closet and you're like, I can't fucking take another phone call. I don't want to cry anymore. and you're just, you feel defeated as a human. Like I would rather, for me personally, rather not be on this earth. Every time a headline came out with Lala and our ex, and the kids, and it was just like, it's a pain in your heart that there's no words to describe. You just want the pain to stop. Exactly. And I don't think people understand and you can't know, like even us as journalists who saw this and knew the media business fairly intimately, I still can tell you until it happens to you, until the cameras are pointed at you and the accusations are being lobbied at you and the headlines you're reading are complete, utter lies, you can't know how destructive that is, not just to you, but to everyone who loves you. Right, it's a waterfall. It's a waterfall effect. When you see the same thing over and over again, and obviously my situation was on a massively smaller scale, but there were moments where I would look in the mirror and I'd be like, I don't even know who I am. What do I want? What do I represent? What do I care about? Like I just relate on a much smaller scale of looking in the mirror when those headlines, and even though you know how the media works, like you said, when it's pointed at you, you lose your identity and sense of self. And it is beyond disorienting and you are in survival, you disassociate, you're on autopilot and then being a parent. It is like, you're just doing enough to like get your kids fed and where they need to be and being like, that's a win for the day. I'll catch you tomorrow. I'll catch you tomorrow. I said, I love you. And I fed you three meals. We're done here. And you know, we actually had to be very mindful then after that, like we, I, it wasn't a year. A full year went by before I physically saw Sabine. We kept everything separate. We just wanted to give the girls space. We kept everything separate. So our first Christmas, first two Christmases together, we spent apart because we spent them with our respective children because we just wanted to give them the courtesy of them deciding when they were ready for us. And now we have family vacations. We have Christmases together. Now we can't get rid of them. Now we can't get rid of them. It's true. We're going somewhere next week and Annalise is popping by. But it also is just a reminder, if anyone's going through something, even as a parent and your kids are upset with something you did, or they don't like even maybe a new relationship or how it all happened, they come around. I had someone tell me, I had someone very kind who went through something similar and say, your kids will come around. They will accept it and they will accept you. If your love is real, they will see you happy and they will support you. And sure enough, they did. It just, you have to be patient. And that was a lesson for me. I wanted to force everybody just like, it's been so painful. Can we just all be together? And you have to respect where they are. And we did that. And I think with Sabine, it was really, I was proud of us. We waited a full year before I, and you asked her, it was your birthday. Sabine led the way. She was never forced to be around anything. None of the kids were. So that was, and Sabine came around to a point. So now I ask her to do things and she'll ask if Roblox is going to be there. And if not, she'll say, oh, I'll pass then. Right? It's just that we have a thing. We've gone on so many vacations internationally. The three of us travel together. It always works out the way it's supposed to. It works out. It's worked out. I cannot believe we're sitting here and where we are and how we are, but something has worked. Yeah. And I want to say because you said that they won. And now I'm going to get emotional. Damn it. no please i never apologize for tears they're powerful and i know i hate when i cry too i hate that i just cried and i do it all the time and i'm like stop it but you care but it's something when you sit down with people and you you find each other and there are only few people everything we've said you all look like oh okay i get it okay and so many people can't relate to what we're saying and to being in those positions but i can understand why almost everything out of our mouth You all have been there, done that to a certain degree. Yeah. And it's probably easy for me to say because I wasn't in your shoes, but I don't feel like they won. I think it is really hard to find the love of your life. And love always wins. It is. And it's not always been easy. This is a tough, and by the way, we went from wanting to hang out with each other to now never, ever not being with each other. It's, I've never spent this much time with another human in my life, but thank God it's him. I don't know. I said that about, because it did, they, their goal, they reached their goal. I mean, they did what they set out to do. Was embarrass, humiliate, and maybe even get us to lose jobs. But it, like that plan worked. We were threatened and it worked to perfection. Look at what happened. And I don't mean to discredit that. No, no, no, no. No, but I'm saying I need to be on board with what you're saying. You are correct. Yeah. Like I just imagine that they're like, they set out to do what they wanted to do. And now where the fuck are you? And you guys are together living this like very beautiful, happy life. And it costs a lot. But I mean, I'm out in these streets, you guys. And finding your person is hard. And you guys are a testament to like, you fought, you sacrificed. Christ. And I'm just so happy that you guys, you know, worked it all out. Your kids are involved and happy. You have I heart allowing you to do things on your terms. Yeah. This was just, I really enjoyed having you guys on this podcast. Yes. Thank you guys so much. Thank you. We, we have loved starting to get to know you, but we're going to find out a lot more about you here in just a moment, right? So we have had a blast being on y'all's podcast, but you all are going to be on our podcast. I know that's correct. I love a good swap. So you guys, thank you so much for listening to another episode of An Unlikely Affair. You can catch Amber and myself on Amy and TJ. And I'm so excited. We're going to get into it. So we will catch you guys next week. We'll catch you on another pod. Bye. Bye. Hi, it's Joe Interstein, host of the Spirit Daughter Podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And today I'm talking with my dear friend, Krista Williams. It can change you in the best way possible. Dance with the change, dance with the breakdowns. The embodiment of Pisces intuition with Capricorn power moves. So I'm like delusionally proud of my chart. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. The human body is a beautiful machine and keeping it running means understanding how it actually works. Which is why this podcast will kill you is doing a multi-part series on sleep. What it's for, why our bodies don't follow neat rules, and why modern life is not helping. When you consider what we know about sleep in humans, there's one rule that comes out. We are predictably unpredictable sleepers. We'll continue exploring how the body works with a multi-part series on digestive function. So listen to our newest series, which runs January 20th through February 17th with new episodes every Tuesday. From the Exactly Right Network, listen to This Podcast Will Kill You on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is the biggest night in podcasting. The countdown is on to our 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards. Live from South by Southwest, March 16th, we'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative, talented creators in the industry. It's truly a who's who of the podcasting world. Creativity, knowledge, and passion will all be on full display. And the winner of the iHeart Podcast Award is... See all the nominees now at iHeart.com slash podcast awards. audible is a proud sponsor of the audible audio pioneer award explore the best selection of audiobooks podcasts and originals all in one easy app audible there's more to imagine when you listen sign up for a free trial at audible.com this is rider strong and i have a new podcast called the red weather in 1995 my neighbor and a trainer disappeared from a commune it was nature and trees and praying and drugs. So no, I am not your guru. Back then, I lied to everybody. They have had this case for 30 years. I'm going back to my hometown to uncover the truth. Listen to The Red Weather on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.