Corrupt Rikers Island Prison Guard Turned Drug Smuggler Tells his Story

Hey Sainsbury's, have you got anything to help me save on my lot's dinners this week? Well, we're always matching and lowering prices. So hundreds of Sainsbury's fresh fruit, veg and everyday products are price matched to Aldi. And every week with Nectar you can save money on thousands of the products your family loves. So we can help you plan your dinner and your budget. Sainsbury's good food for all of us. Selected products, Aldi price match not in Ni. Nectar prices require Nectar account. Terms at Sainsbury's.co.uk slash aldpricematch and netto.com slash prices terms. Please stand clear of the gap. Another morning, another reminder there's a gap to be careful of. But maybe it's time to bridge the one between your nine to five and your dream of living life on your own terms. At HSBC we know ambition looks different to everyone. Whether it's retiring early or leaving more for your family, we can help. Because when it comes to unlocking your money's potential, we know wealth. Search HSBC Wealth today. HSBC UK opening up a world of opportunity. HSBC UK current account holders only. No Jumper, coolest podcast in the world. And today I got a very, very interesting interview for the people out there. Steven Dominguez, the author of this book Across the Bridge, a Rikers Island story. And I'm not going to say where we met exactly, but you definitely probably have one of the better stories of how you got a No Jumper interview of anybody ever. Yeah, I would say we were in Miami and we could say that. We were in Miami. I was Miami for you. I was great. I mean LA took a series of pretty brutal elves in the boxing arena, but not brutal. Most of them were pretty close, but Miami was good. But on the last day, me and Michael went to get some some food somewhere. And you actually like really grabbed my attention because you go, Hey man, you a legend in Maria Hernandez Park, which is basically like when I lived in Bushwick, I lived right around the corner from this park that we used to just go ride at all the time because they had this one little ledge. And then I later found out that it was kind of notorious because like 69 talked about it and talked about how it was like a famous heroin park. It is. It is. And it's like out in the open. You know, a lot of corners in New York City are out in the open, but Maria Hernandez Park has just like a very crazy reputation. Really? A lot of like, you know, gang culture in that park, you know, like universal meetups with like the land kings and the floods back in the nineties. See, I was completely oblivious to any of that when I used to live there. But I do remember that there was this like really hot Asian woman that I pulled out that park one time and like even just finding one bitch at that park just really stood out to me. What were you doing? I was just riding bikes because there's just this ledge that we used to just ride all the time. And it's notorious for it. Yeah. Most skaters BMX riders run through that park. Yeah, for sure. And so then as I was leaving, you mentioned like, yo, I did like a million views on Ian Bix podcast and I'm like, what? I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about? And you kind of like explained how you had this insane story from being on right working at Rikers and then actually catching charges as a result of some shit that you got into as a CEO. So I was like, you know what? We got to do this. Usually I have my pitch already down pack for moments like this because it's like, you know, I got to grab your attention. It's like, you get a lot of people on podcasts and interviews and they'll mention Rikers and their perspective. But I have this duality where I was a uniform first and then I was an inmate. Yeah. I didn't I wasn't stationed at Rikers when I was an inmate. That's like being like a conflict of interest for sure. So I was in Westchester County, but we'll run through the story. Definitely. And for anyone who doesn't really understand Rikers, like I first became familiar with it back in the day because there was one of these like hood DVD type things. Yes. That like a lot of BMX dudes that I knew were really fascinated by it and we'll kind of talk about it all the time because it was just so notorious for people getting their faces slashed open, which I don't know. Is that where hence the title? Yeah. Is that where Mano got cut? Every no Mano got cut up state. Oh, okay. But Mano definitely was on Rikers. When I was a correction officer, Mano's brother, younger brother, I believe it's his younger brother, or maybe his older brother, Mouse. Okay. He was in one of my housing areas as an inmate fighting his case. Crazy. Yeah. A lot of people were domination with Bangal smurf and 50. He was fighting his case in my housing area, True Life, G-Dep. Like I'd see Cardi B come visit her boyfriend. So it's like, if you get caught doing something wrong within the five boroughs of New York City, you're going to end up here. So being that here is Rikers Island, it's not as big as people think, you know? Right. When I was there, there was like 10,000 inmates. Now there's like six, seven thousand. Okay. So let's get a little bit of like early life story before we get into how you even ended up working there. So you're from Queens, right? Queens, Boner Race. Okay. My parents split when I was like six. My father moved to Harlem, so I go to the city a lot. I take the train to bus by myself. All my scholar years have been in Queens. I went to John Jay College of Criminal Justice. So I would say regardless of my environment, I was kind of walking a straight path. My mom is a substitute teacher for the Board of Ed. So, you know, she had things in order. She taught me like, hey, listen, having a city job, having this employment, having these benefits, the reason you go to a dentist and a doctor and the reason why, you know, you can choose whatever cereal you want. You have a Nintendo 64. It's kind of this job. So if you solidify something within the city and you get this pension and you started early, that's like a lottery ticket. And that's exactly what I did. Were you tempted to like join a gang or get real in the street shit? That was all over me in every type of layer of every corner in New York City. It wasn't just my neighborhood. But does my neighborhood have that? Absolutely. But I was able and blessed enough to say no. Right. You know, so basketball was a good thing. Being in the park was a good thing. I was born in 88. I'm 37 years old. Okay. So you're five years younger than me. Right. So there's a certain feel of like I didn't have my phone in my hand. That's not a sport we didn't play. So growing up wasn't terrible. Again, the drugs, the gangs, the violence, it's in front of us all the time. But we were able to dodge it. I had enough good standing friends that, you know, we worked in unison like, hey, you shouldn't do this. Like, hey, don't go here. You know, trying to dodge it. I feel like if you grow up in certain areas in New York, it's just like the temptation is just always going to be there. It's always going to be kind of right in front of your face. The pressure too. It's a lot of social pressure. Yeah. Because, you know, it's a cool thing to be in a gang. You know, gang banging in LA and gang banging in New York is totally different. What would you say the biggest differences are? It's not that street intense where we're showing, you know, gangs still wear beads and they still flag and stuff in New York, but it's not as intense to like, hey, this is who we are. This is who we're representing. It's more low-key. Yeah. You know? Yeah, I did a vlog where we went to the Bronx with like a couple hundred bloods to shoot this video with Shay Davis and King Pill and stuff. Shay Davis is a legend. Legend, for sure. I worked at the Coliseum on Jamaica Avenue. I so fitted jerseys, sneakers. That was part of my hustle while I was in high school. So aside from getting a discount and getting stuff, you know, for the low and early, that's kind of how I maintained being fly and not being bullied and pressured. And I was kind of part of like, hey, this kid's cool. He got his own. I don't have to steal or rob or do certain things. You know, I always had good money management from a little kid. I would shoot out of the snow. I would do a whole bunch of stuff. Anything, like self sneakers, Jordan's, everything. I mean, that's kind of like a rare thing. Or I guess it's maybe not that rare, but to be like a real hustler, but to also have like a commitment to not doing stuff that's illegal, just because I feel like the older you get, the easier it is to understand like, yeah, I could probably make a lot of money if I become like a Coke Kingpin or something. But like, it's just not worth it because what is doing 20 years in prison is glamorized. Yeah. So when you see going back to the DVD stuff, working on Jamaica Avenue, I had access to all of these things. I saw the scar face for life. I as a correction officer, we'll go back. I used to have a housing area with a DVD player and the warding of the jail knew what was going on. They would bring in like, you know, how to have like anger management stuff, DVDs, but it's still a DVD player. The A officer used to bring his own DVDs, put in movies, he'll put in the equalizer, he'll put scar face and it'll calm these inmates down because they're in a day room, 31, 25 deep with five channels on the TV. And it's only the news. So when you distract them in a good way, whether it's a sub zero DVD, whether it's a smack DVD to come up, I used to bring those DVDs in way before I used to really do the wrong thing. Right, for sure. So, okay, you went to college or? I went to college. While I was in college, I was a TSA agent. Oh, right. So from 18 to 21, I worked at LaGuardia Airport. So that's kind of like the foundation to me getting a check every two weeks. I maintained college part-time and did that part-time. And so what was the process of you becoming a CEO? So I'm coming out of John Jay one day waiting for a friend and there's a desk just like this and they're doing like a recruitment. Hey, want to be a CEO? Want to be a CEO? You know, hey, just giving out the paper. Hey, if you go to this school, John Jay College of Criminal Justice, the test is free. Back then it was like 50 bucks, 30 bucks. How old are you? Well, I'm 19. This is the interaction I'm having with him. He goes, all right, what are you doing now? I said, well, I worked TSA. He goes, well, you want to make some big money? And he shows me his pay stuff. And it's like 4K. This is 2007, 2006. So 4K back then to someone that. Went a lot further. You know, my mom's a substitute teacher. I'm a product of a single mother. I'm out here hustling doing things the right way, you know, trying to make a quick buck without having to ask for one. And I'm in my mom's living room and I don't have like a sense of like manhood yet. So I just want to get out of my house. So you don't have that liberation of like, well, I got a job. I got a study job. I'm about to graduate college. I want my own place. Like, you know, the standard stuff that we do and think as young men. And that 4K was something I haven't seen. Being part-time at TSA, I'm getting like $700 by weekly. Oh, wow. So I take the test, pass it with flying colors. They call me four months shy of my 21st birthday. I let them know, hey, listen, my 21st birthday is in four months. Okay, you might not make this class. You'll make the next one. Cool. They literally call me four months after my 21st birthday. It's like quarterly that these classes are coming in. Mind you, these classes are 350 to 450 recruits. That means all these people pass a test. They passed orientation and they took an oath saying, we're going to protect New York City's most notorious jail. Right. I do all of that stuff. I pass the test. I pass the academy. It's four months long. We go to old job training and it's our first introduction to where Rikers Island was. And that was my first introduction as a about to be officer because I have visited friends on Rikers Island. I have seen what we know as DVD culture exploiting what Rikers is ready. So this is like the real deal. 21 is so young to be around all of these hardened criminals who realistically are basically like the most violent people in the city. Yeah, they are. And a lot of them are there for a mistake that they probably didn't leave their house knowing they were going to commit. So it's like a revolving door of that, the minor crimes and the major crimes. And it's a constant rotation. It's like the airport is 24 hours. Right. It does not stop. So my soul experience with getting locked up in my adult life was when I was, I don't know, like 24. And I basically, me and a bunch of my friends got arrested out party because some girls were throwing glass bottles out the window and one of them ended up hitting a taxi cab. The cop in the middle of Midtown too. And the cops end up like storming the apartment. I told all the guys I was with like, don't rat out the girls because we need a place to stay. And there's no way they're going to arrest all 10 of us. And then they absolutely did arrest all 10 of us. This is why you live in Brooklyn? Uh, yeah. And this was like, but it was in Midtown. So it was like, they locked us up for like 24 hours. And then that was essentially the end of it. I had to go to court like one time and they dropped the charges. So you didn't get to hit Rikers? No, definitely not. But I was in like the men's, uh, like, I forget what it's called the, the, but basically. Central Bookings. Yeah. Central Bookings for like 24 hours, really, as much as that is like nothing in the grand scheme of things really made me realize like how much I never wanted to go to jail again. I was arrested twice on minor violations and ended up staying weekends in Central Bookings. And I still was able to pass and be a correction officer. Okay. You just, you can't have a felony? Can't have a felony. So you can have been charged with misdemeanors and convicted? It also does depends what, it depends the misdemeanor, uh, in a sense of like what type of crime. But I'm pretty sure there's misdemeanor, uh, domestic violence. And I don't think they'd accept that. Okay. Because they'd see that as like an anger issue. You do have to go through, uh, psychological. They're not just giving this test out and just because you passed, you're good, you know. But so if I, like me spending that 24 hours in, uh, Central Bookings, if I had gone and seen the judge and the judge basically was like, nah, we're not letting you out, you gotta stay here? They would have sent me to Rikers? You would have went to Rikers or you would have went to the boat or from the boat, you would have still went to Rikers. The boat is more holding facility for people that probably aren't going to spend too much time. Okay. If they are, if they are classified as such, like they might be on the boat for two weeks and get a superseding indictment and it's like, oh, now you have a murder charge. Now you go to Rikers. Okay. So you, you start the job and what was that like? Intense. This was something that, you know, no, no one can really prepare for. Right. And again, being 21 years old, telling guys 21 and older what to do and then understanding how new I am. The, the badge is super shiny. My boots are super shiny. Like they've been there three, four years fighting their case. They know who's new. And these are guys who are better than anybody at like finding weakness and honing in on it and exploiting it. There's nothing else to do. It came to the point that, and then I'm just giving you a random bullet point. They knew what days I'd get a haircut. Just because of like routine and it's like, you know, my routine, that's crazy. That means you're really like locked in. And as much as that's like useless information, it's like they don't really have anything else to do. How they survive too. Cause now it's like playing chess. I'm ahead of you. You might think I'm lacking cause I left this piece here, but I'm two pieces ahead. Right. Interesting. So do they like slowly ease you into this environment? What happened with me and I can only talk for myself is that the empathy kind of grew because these are a lot of my peers I'm running into. You know, it's a conflict of interest for you to have a friend or family member be in the same building facility that you're working in. But how do you prevent that when you're a New York City kid and I've played in every basketball court there is, I've taken every train there is, it's not an able hood I haven't walked through. So it's like, you know, it's hard to not gain a certain friendship and relationship or some type of just middle ground with like, Hey, you're Dominican, you're Colombian, you're from Queens, you went to this high school with me, you know this girl, you know, so it's like a lot of things that struggle for me started early. But I didn't let it hold me down. I was still a good officer. I mean that wholeheartedly by like, I tried to do whatever I could do within the means of my capability of why I'm here for the next eight to 16 hours. So if you want to know if your package came through and the officer didn't call before, I'll call for you. And at least if the officer on the receiving end says, at least you saw that I tried and I kind of gained that respect. Right, because you know, you're not so different from these dudes in a variety of ways. I saw that because you know, as a mean tough gangster, these guys were, they're going through an emotional roller coaster going to court, coming back, having family members die while they're awaiting trial, like things happening while not knowing if their kids are okay. So all these things, it's like they're just venting. I felt like a therapist there. Yeah, definitely. And I mean, but I've read studies and there's like a bunch of famous experiments that they've done basically over the years where when somebody goes into the role of being, you know, a guard or a correctional officer to jail or whatever that they start to like believe or like really like their view of the relationship between them as the guard and then the prisoner starts to like really change where they start to view themselves as like all powerful. And I feel like that's almost beneficial because of the fact that the prisoners are basically going to try to exploit you and take advantage of you. So how much like training or preparation did they give you for that? It's drilled in you pause is drilled in you every single day in the academy to not sell your integrity. Okay. They literally make you read something off a wall. I will not sell, you know, not in those words verbatim, but you know, I will not fall to this. And it's because it's the accessibility is there. The, the, hey, can I borrow your pen because it depends on commissary or rubber and a street pen that I have to log in my book with those hard pens they want to write because they want to write a rap lyric or they want to write their girlfriend, you know, and it's like, oh yeah, here you just broke a rule. But it's something, it's something humanistic about, hey, bro, I just want to write my girl. Tiny little bit of a connection right there. You're humanizing them a little bit and they're going to take that and build upon it. The question always was why not. And then when you question that why not to other officers, you become an inmate love or what they say, label you as that. And it's like, no, these guys are bad. These guys are horrible. These are the guys that are robbing your grandmother and taking her purse. And it's like, yeah, maybe not all though. I can wholeheartedly say there were some innocent people in that building and the building I worked in. And like, you know, especially just kind of growing up observing and listening to hip hop and shit like that. There's a lot of bad behavior that we're all able to justify when we find out that our favorite rapper ordered a murder in the case of like a little Dirk or something like that. Yeah, there's a part of us that's like, wow, what an idiot. Obviously it's alleged at this point, but like, there's also a part of you that's like, well, what would I do if somebody killed my friend? Right. You know, we can all kind of put ourselves in their shoes. And I'm sure that some of that has to start taking place in your head when you're a CEO as well. We're all human. The only difference between me and them at that point was that I took a test and they didn't. Yeah. That's the only difference. And that probably just keeps being reminded to you over and over and over. It does. It does. And you're literally there when these guys are at their most vulnerable point. And you see that maybe other inmates don't, but they might show you because they might cry on a visit floor and only it's them and their mom. And then when they get back to the housing area, you know, he's the big whoever he is. He's got to be that guy in order to survive. But as an officer, you see the tender points and they kind of respect that. With you because they know that you're there with them. We're all stuck in this system. You know, definitely. So what's the crazy shit that you've seen in the first like few months that you're there? A lot of blood. It wasn't so much the violence that I got to see personally, but if I were to walk by, you see someone was stabbed 11 times in the infirmary or you're on a hospital run because this guy got sliced from top of the ear to bottom of the lip. Right. And it's like, this guy still has to go to court next week. Judd doesn't give a what's going on. Definitely. So how prevalent was the culture of stabbing there? Because like Rikers being so famous for it, I would imagine that they've had to take really drastic measures to make that as difficult as possible. Inmate to make weapons out of anything. And Rikers is deteriorating as an infrastructure on itself. So when the radiator over here is chipping, there's a chip in the back that I can sharpen and I can go and try to cut whoever I need to cut. So there's a sense of like, they can just get certain items. They can dig the spokes from the fin. And as an officer, you see there's two or three missing. Yeah. And you'll tell the captain and the captain get a little spray paint and put it. And it's like, all right, we know these are missing. And then tomorrow it's like, oh, these are missing. It's like, well, now they have six. But does that trigger like a raid of everybody's cells or is that just too much work? A lot of it is just preparing for war. That's all it is. It's just preparing for war. You don't know who's going to go after who. So there could be something that stems from the street and it gets sent to Rikers and they say, hey, listen, you got to go get an atom because atoms in five main. We know you're in five main. So now you're easy. Now you're you're you're caged in with the wolves and the and the apes and the and everybody. You know, right? So these guys are all just kind of placed together. There's no pressure cooker. It's they're all just in this exact room. Imagine 25 of us right with a small TV and wreck is called at 5am. And is it like, is there any attempt to take dudes who are of different gangs and to kind of separate them? They do that. They've tried many things. When I was an officer, they did something called 5 5 5. They'd have five three and 30 was five bloods, five crips, and it'll just to like, well, there's an equal part of them. So maybe they might, you know, maybe this might work, you know, they've also, you know, secluded whole gangs of three and 30 is on this side, the Crips on this side. Right. From your perspective, like what's more effective? I would say less of a population would be more effective. So it's the overcrowding the causal problems again, the infrastructure. Things are deteriorating. It stinks. It's super hot in there during the summer. There's no ventilation. The food in there is trash. There's no sunlight. There's no nothing. So when you're working in a place like this, it kind of you kind of also feel like man, the system, you feel just like these guys, they just feel it on a different level. So is there a part of you that like, did you start to notice this degrading your mental state, just being in this environment pretty quickly? Absolutely. I started to act with this like diligence outside and it was like overwhelming. Right. It's like, you know, little sounds, I felt like an army. And I would never know what that feels like because I didn't serve. Right. But it's just like, I have to be on point every single second. Right. And I would take that home. I would take that home. Did you start to see violence against the CEOs? I saw some violence, but it was, I would say it's equal. Not in the sense that the CEO is starting problems. The CEO is just protecting themselves, which they should. But, you know, I don't know what you're going to do. So my verbal with you might escalate. So I rather escalate it first. Damn. Okay. And there was some officer, you can't depend on and there was some that you were. So either way, you're alone. Everyone in there feels alone, even though there's a separation of inmate, officer, and civilian, they're all alone because the civilians get slashed and cut all the time. Right. Mental health clinicians have been cut and slashed. Right. Just for no reason? Just a random. And it could be because the inmate doesn't want to go back to his housing area. And he's already doing 25 to life and he goes upstate next week. So let me start my upstate bid in the box alone where I don't got to offend and fight all day because it's just me. But putting people in the box is going to be complicated too, because I assume that there's too many people that they want to put in solitude. They're super that old box time and they don't give it to them and they'll say, hey, you know what, this person should go in front of this person. It's like, it's a line for it. And especially as a juvenile, that's very deteriorating to the mind. Damn. Okay. So how long did it take before you started to see, well, did you see CEOs who are basically like corrupt or doing things that you saw as fucked up? The corruption has existed in Riker's Island before I was born. Right. So this could go from bringing in contraband. It can go from writing something on a document that's false saying that the inmate did this and they didn't. It can go anywhere and in faking an injury report. So the corruption is always there. I feel the system itself is corrupted and it just teaches you how to corrupt. So you might bend the rules today and realize later, like, at least nothing happened. I'll try not to do that again. Yeah, because I mean, just being in that environment, would you say it's fair to say that the CEOs almost become like a gang in their own way? In their own way, they're in unison. If I see a CEO getting jumped, I have to jump in. Does everyone jump in? No. Did I ever have a physical altercation on Riker's? As a correction officer? No. Really? You never did? Never. Never. Was there opportunity to or you just kind of? I think there were many opportunities, but I just kind of deescalated my way out and it wasn't because I was trying to avoid a fight. It was just like, wait, I don't think we got to do this because this doesn't end here. You still got to come back. I still got to come back. Even though they might ship him to another building, now, if I felt like it, I could get him jumped somewhere else. And it's like, you have that animosity because this guy's spitting your face or through urine at you. And that never happened to me. I never put myself in those predicaments. So you didn't see anybody die while they're in Riker's? I saw two suicides. Really? Yeah, not myself seeing the person hang, but witnessing having to deal with it. How would they do that? They would hang themselves. But there's a way of hanging without hanging. So they'd turn around the bed frame and they'd rip the sheet, just have a whole rope type of sheet. They'd lay on the ground and they'd noose themselves and they'll just twirl like sharks do or like crocodiles do that or alligators do that. Well, once they bite, they twirl continuously until they can't get out of it. Really? That takes so much commitment. And it happens a lot. If you check the statistic, I guess there's like 15 to 25 suicides a year. Really? And is that a huge priority for the COs to prevent that stuff? Or is your attitude kind of whatever? No, we have 9-11, what we call a 9-1-1 knife, which is like shaped like this. So we can cut that noose. Like we're prepared for it. They do teach you that in the academy because it happens so much. People don't want to deal with the time. You might get someone back from a court. That's why they make you see the psych. Right. As soon as you come back from court, hey, everything okay, you're good, right? Because people become suicidal. But it's why, because how much time are people really doing at Rikers before they get sent off to prison or they're freed like a couple years max? At least two to three years fighting their case if it's a big case. I've seen people on Rikers for six years. Really? And that's me being a correction officer for four and a half. They already have two years of being in that building and I come in as a rookie in this building. Yeah. Wow. And again, you go through these people turning 21, 22 and who's also turning 21, 22 me? Definitely. Wow. So are you like you end up essentially kind of for the spoiler for the people out there, but you end up basically kind of going to the other side and starting to do stuff that's inappropriate or illegal. Was there were there things that led up to that that you found yourself doing that you kind of saw yourself and you were like, I'm biting off little bits of rebellion here. I'm doing little things that are inappropriate that led up to like. Like I mentioned earlier, the DVDs. Even though I got the okay from white shirts, meaning captains or wardens like, hey, yeah, you're good because they just want a quiet shift. So it's something, the sub zero DVD is playing everybody's like this. You know, and it's like, if I say, Hey, guys, it's 10 minutes to lock and grab your shit. So we could lock in. It's militant. Yeah. Why? Because this guy helped us today. Right. What would be the alternative if they're not trying to like go to their cells? Like are they just going to sort of just hang out in Dilly Dally? Have someone of higher rank and tell them. Oh, that is Dominguez. And I think that kind of boosted my ego in a sense of having the control that I needed. And looking back at that, though, is that all kind of part of a concerted effort to like sort of win CEOs over? We can say that, but these guys are going upstate, you know, rapidly. They are there for years at a time, but they're also going to different housing areas. They're also going to different buildings. Things are happening to them. They go to the box. I don't see them for two years. So it's not like one inmate stays in a housing area for five years. That doesn't happen. Definitely. You know what I'm remembering too is that like when I was saying that DVD, the Scarface shit, I remember one time being out riding with these dudes and they seen one of the dudes from the documentary. And there was like, it was like they met this huge celebrity. I was with one of the dudes, Renegade. He's the one that says, once they pull out that Matavaca. Yeah. He's in my housing area. One me. Yeah. I mean, and at the time I was like really surprised that they recognized them. But I guess when you see somebody with a buck 50, you are going to pay attention. Pistol Pete was in that too. Really? Yeah. This is when pistol Pete was really like in and out of right. Really? And he built the cages in the box in the wreck yard because of pistol Pete. So when you were there for what years? 2009 to 2014. Was the slashing like totally out of control? 30 to 40 slashings a month in my building. A month is so insane. In my building. Because what happens is that once the alarm goes off, I can't see what's going on in three lower. But I know that the alarms are ringing. The officers have their radios and you hear 10, 11 in progress, 10, 11 in progress and the inmates hear that. Yeah. Whether they're in the law library, whether in Chow. So it's like, ah, Adam popped off in three lower. Yeah. Because we spoke about Adam popping off. And now I know to pop off on whoever because it's just a domino effect. Do you feel like there would have been any conceivable way to stop people from slashing each other or is it just they're going to find a way? They're going to find a way and they're going to find a means, whether it's someone promoting Scapple or some type of sharp object or they're going to make it themselves. Yeah. But again, Rikers is falling apart. That's why these things exist. That's why I'm able to break things off and make them into a shank. Yeah. Damn. It's crazy. And these search, they do a search, a tactical search. Every time somebody gets cut just to find more weapons and they do. And it's just nonstop. Really? It's nonstop. Was there all phones in there at the time? During my era, no. No, OK. No, during my era, no. And this is, you know, iPhone 4. Yeah, kind of new. Like, yeah. And things of that nature, like you don't want to get caught with that stuff. And no one, I don't think as much corruption as there was, aside from me doing what I was doing, I don't think a cell phone around that time, you didn't have enough money to bring a cell phone. It was, it was $1,000 was, that's what you get for tobacco. Right. You know, so a cell phone had to be 10 grand and nobody's paying 10 grand. Right. Yeah, I recently interviewed somebody who told me that they knew a dude that they were in prison with who could fit four of these in his asshole at the same time. I saw that clip. I'm still thinking about how crazy that is. And the fact that this is a dude who was respected for being able to do that. And the thing is, it's like that's saving whoever is around him and himself another seven years. So it's like, no way in hell, hey, it's either do this or take the seven years. You know? Yeah. I just like on a purely physical level, that's just amazing to me that anyone could do that. No comment. But you don't think that people were people stashing stuff in the booty hole on Riggers? Yeah, of course. I guess. Coming off the visit and getting the bag, you know, and it's like, hey, it's part of it. Like it's not, it's respected at that point. Like you just said, it's part of it. That's the culture. And it's like it's accepted culture because my uncle used to do this and my dad used to do this when they were on Rikers 45 years ago. Yeah. And it's just like, all right. It was just crazy too, because I feel like they get out and then they try to act like that didn't happen. Because the street has a very different perspective of that, I'm sure. It's embarrassing. Eating on this table and sharing a soup with you is embarrassing. Because, you know, it's something I'm getting money in the town. I don't do that stuff. Now you have to. Is this amazing? Because like this sort of street culture is like the most homophobic culture you could ever think of. I think the world is like that for the most part. But I mean, like a lot of gang members and stuff is just you could never be gay and be a gang member. Yeah, because there's just more cheese more. You know, everybody. But you could put four phones in your ass. That's the thing. That's the thing. Circumstances and desperation leads to aspiration. For sure. Did you know Asap Yams? I was just seeing that tattoo. Childhood best friend. Really? Childhood best friend. Wow, that's crazy. He's going to Harlem like I told you earlier. I met Yams when Yams was like really just having all his ideas in a hat and slowly just, you know. Really? Yeah. So you were very strategic. You were in touch with him throughout the Tumblr era and everything? Way before that. I would say getting into that when he had a blog called Choppers on Deck. Yeah, yeah. And then he did East Side Stevie. And then like real N-word Tumblr. I think it was the one right before he popped Rocky off. Yeah, that was the one where it was like I knew his capability just because of the images he had. He would get these images of rappers just chilling and it's not him taking the picture. He's like, yo, it's just on the web. He was going through like old issues of the source and just find like the most fly South Pole ad and just upload that and that was a post. He worked with Duta God. He worked with Jim Jones. So he was around that a lot. I remember one of Rocky's first shows was at most on 125th. My girlfriend at the time was a manager there. So it was like it just worked. Yeah. Purple swag went crazy. Like me and a lot of other nobody asked internet kids used to talk to him on Twitter and Tumblr or whatever. And like I remember the one time I met him was at this Gucci Man and Young Scooter show here in LA. And I'm so drunk leaving this party and they had bottles of gray goose at the party. And there was one like this big and I had it in my pants. Stashing it. Not where the cell phones go. But I was coming out and that was how I got to meet him. And I probably made a total fool of myself because I was wasted. But the thing about James is that he's in his own world. Like he was, he's just a thinker, man. He's just always been a thinker. He's always been strategic and he just kind of knew what to do. Like he just had the puzzle pieces. And again, he would just put them together. Yeah, for sure. For a lot of people, not just ASAP. Yeah, it's crazy. We'll never get to see what his long-term contribution could have been. I mean, it's still, I get stopped for the tattoo a lot. I also see people with merch and stuff. I was at Yam's Day when I came home right before COVID hit. So I got to experience the love that he got. So that kind of like, cool. Like it's the acceptance of legacy. You know, like this, not that it was supposed to happen. Nobody wants stuff, but it definitely changed the trajectory for a lot of people. Yeah, there's a lot of people at that time when you think about it who like, not that he was doing it, but there was a lot of glamorization of lean and drugs in general. And that era really kind of like led to where we're at now, where it feels like people are not so open about it. This is because activists was 1500 or bottle. And this is 1500 in 2012. 11, 1500 is a lot of money back then just to drink something. Yeah, but now you probably get taxed for 10, 15 grand. Now that's different. Yeah, if you can find it. That's inflation, whatever. Yeah, yeah. Just like drugs in jail and prison, it's inflation. And now activists is like, like it's a historical heirloom. Yeah, totally different. But okay, so how do they start? Like, like break down how you first kind of went over to the dark side. So I always get an approach. I think as any correction officer, there's always that temptation of you're the one that can do this, the impermissible item I cannot have. I'm willing to put a nice ticket on it. So it'll always be in a cool form. Like, yo, Domingo, let's make some money, man. And I'm like, no, bro, I'm good. And I boast and brag about how much money I'm making as a CEO. I'm making okay money for my age. It's three times more than TSA was, but it's because I'm working 16-hour shifts. So every five hours of overtime in my area, you were getting $550, which is not bad. But if you're doing that three, four times a week, you're getting the 4k that I saw from initially when I was at John Jay. So you'd work a 16-hour shift and then what, have a day off and then do another? I do a 16-hour back-to-back sometimes. I do three 16-hour back-to-backs and then have an eight hour because they'd have your days off are numbered. So if you just came off of me two days off, they're consecutive. Your first day, you're prone to overtime 100%. You just had your rest days. That's how it's thought of. So you're going to stay. In comparison to Dominguez as an officer, he's on his third and he got stuck yesterday, send them home. So it's like there's a level to who gets stuck. It's also a lot of favoritism. Some people would rather, as far as captains go, certain officers in their housing areas because they don't know they have a chill day. Yeah. I mean, it's like you're making good money, but then also it's probably kind of destroying your life in a way because you don't really get to have much free time. I started drinking a lot. I started being like more of a night owl and this is all just, I guess, the PTSD of it happening live going on. You don't know when to rest. It's a very stressful job. Correction on itself is a very stressful. Definitely. Were the inmates doing drugs there? Yeah. A lot of weed, a lot of tobacco. Back then, Suboxone was big. The strips, they looked like listerine strips. And they were sneaking it in or they could get it. They were bringing it through the mail. Because it was such a, they're like little listerine strips. Oh yeah. You guys weren't like trained to look for that yet? Not yet, but after a while, you know, you started realizing again, drugs evolve and getting drugs inside of jails and prisons evolve. So there's certain ways. Sometimes, you know, like there was story that they put it like behind the stamp itself. But so before you started breaking the rules, did you know other CEOs to be doing similar stuff? Like especially like sneaking drugs in. So just being a smoker now and always have been one, you know, the smell of weed. Yeah. And it's like, how the fuck did they get weed in here? And you know, you kind of want to blame it on the visitor. But then it's like, well, you know, staff can also bring things in and again, going back to the Academy days, don't bring anything in. These guys are on your friend. They're going to offer you money. Don't bring anything in. And it's just over and over and over because there's going to be that point. Just like it happened to me. Just like it happens to all officers. Hey, listen, proposition, you know, just bring this in and I'll pay you Western Union. I have someone meet you on the corner, wherever you want. You know, it was like before Zell and Cash App. So it was like that was the method. For sure. So, OK, how did this dude actually kind of start to break you? This dude in particular, which is everyone that I have denied in the three years that I've been a CEO now, that I have been very straightforward aside from just bringing in the DVDs. I know him from the street. I've seen him in live time. He knows a girl that I know. And I know him to be this big drug dealer in the street in the town. Pre Riker's Island. He's also been an inmate these three years that I've been an officer. So tons of familiarity and tons of trust. Trust. He's worked every job you can have in these three years. And I just see him in translation because I'm also on the wheels. So I was working a one to nine shift and I'd work sanitation. And then my next week shift would be nine to five and I was working the rec yard. And then the next week after that, I worked five main only. And it's like I'm seeing this inmate throughout the building. He's a well known inmate, even though he's on one side of the building, he has access to the entire building. One day we're on the overnight shift. I'm working a sanitation post. I'm doing a vacation relief because I'm going on vacation soon. It's 3 a.m. We're going around every single housing area, picking out the garbage outside. He's one of my workers. And we're just talking shit, talking shit. A lot of his talk was about once he gets out, he's going to run this business and he's going to do this and that. And he's going to leave the streets alone. And I'm always just like, yeah, man, that's a good thing. He'd ask about the girl that we know. And he asked about the street and just like, you could tell you miss being home. He's facing an attempted murder charge. I know this from Gecko. So his minimum because he's a predicate felon is 15 to life. And he's around my age. And it's like 15 to life and you got this going on. And he's got a nice G Shock watch. He's got a Cuban link on back then on record, you were able to wear street clothes. You weren't wearing sweatpants or a jumper. Right now they're wearing tan jumpers, brown jumpers before you could wear street clothes. So dudes had true religions, academic hoodies like Jordan's on. And it was like that also built a certain ego within. I'm flyer than you and I'm still here. Yeah. Damn, that's crazy. That feels like so inappropriate. They changed that once I left though. Yeah. Like 2015, they started, they changed into the, you know, the tens. Going back to this night, he goes, Joe, let's make some money, man. And I'm like, nah, bro, I'm good. And I'm like, in my head, I'm like, took your while for you to even ask me. And I'm like, nah, bro, I'm good. I'm just kind of brushing it off, laughing. He goes, nah, but I need you to do security on the street. I'm like, what you mean? He's like, you know, like just, well, driving around with my brother. I'm like, I'm like doing what? And it's like, he didn't have to say I already knew because I already know what he does. He writes on a piece of paper, the phone number, nobody's watching. It's like three AM. I only have him and the other inmate picking up the garbage. So everyone's locked in. There's like one or two officers in the corridor and me and the intake officers are getting the new inmates ready for court. Rice was not the piston paper from his Bible and right to number down with a piston and give it to me that you're cool. Call my brother and tell you more information. I'm like, yeah, yeah, I got you. But at this point, it could be legit work. I'm thinking once he says security and just me putting two and two together knowing what I'm like, um, do you just want me to drive because I have a gun and a badge and I have that security. Now no pun intended. Security no no pun intended that if I get pulled over I'm also law enforcement because that's a big thing in New York City To have a gun in New York City and to have a badge on top of that It's like yeah, you're superior because they don't give out. There's no guns. You can't buy a gun in New York City Yeah, they don't give everyone a license Yeah, a lot of people might not realize but the New York is just like having a gun is so different than having a gun in Atlanta Texas, you know, it's just like the the hardest place to have a gun in America. Correct. Correct. And before They found you with a gun you get eight months on records I mean and then you go upstate get a get a number of state number then you come back and you do that You're really doing seven months out of that eight. So you say before what you feel like that's changed a lot I changed the law. So now you get three and a half three and a half years in half years for just having a gun on you Per gun offer board and operable. Wow. Yeah, that's how heavy the gun laws are in New York, right? So I take the number and I put it in my pocket. I got these big cargo pants on I Just throw it in there and we continue tonight grabs a garbage He grabs his tray because it's breakfast and goes back to the dorm I'm done with my shift because my shift was 9 to 5 a.m. I Go home and I'm getting ready for my vacation because now I'm going on vacation. I come back from vacation I'm doing laundry. I'm taking all the pockets out. I'm this is a week or two ahead and I see the number and I'm just like Mind you, I'm pondering this while I'm in the living room in my mom's house Yeah, I'm this city employee of three years and I'm still in my same situation So maybe that kind of put my ego, right? And I just broke my integrity broke that day cuz I called the number And so what's your first mission like for these guys? Well, I'm gonna run through the phone call. Yeah, what's up? Oh, yeah, you Hey, such as such told me to call you. Oh, okay. Okay. You want to link up tomorrow? I leave in three days I'm sorry. That's came back From vacation I work tomorrow. So I tell him hey listen, I get out at 9. Da da da da. All right. Yeah cool. No problem Me me on 150 something and Amsterdam Avenue. This is Washington Heights. I know Manhattan just like I know Queens. I know where I'm going Hang up and I'm just like I'm not regretting it, but I'm just saying I might regret it tomorrow. I sleep on it. I don't think nothing of it He texts me Yo, oh this time All right, cool I go up we meet him. He looks just like his brother. This is his younger brother Big earrings big watch big chain sweatsuit just mimics Washington Heights, you know Jugg shit, you know Let me go grab a bag. I'm gonna come downstairs All right, cool. He's still smoking a cigarette. Let's a cigarette go grabs a duffer bag comes downstairs puts it in the trunk Where in my car gets in the passenger seat gives me a dab starts talking shit. Yo, how's my brother this and that? I don't know what's in the trunk. Mm-hmm. Yeah, we're gonna go to 44th Street in 10th Avenue Who we get on the West Side Highway? Yo park right here to end Parking out where you go inside into the garage real dark Papa trunk gets a trunk meets a guy in a minivan. I'm just there like So you're in the car I'm in the car the entire time I didn't touch anything So if this guy tried to rob him you wouldn't even really be that useful cuz you're still in the car I'm in the car, but guess what? I also have my gun on yeah, so that was kind of like my other wave of armor where I'm just like All right, I'm also in my vehicle. I'm I can leave whenever I want You know if that were to pop off that did go through my mind, but more so I just wanted it to end right He gets back in the car no duffel bag. Yo, can I smoke a cigarette? Well, where yet? Oh, just take me back to the crib get back on the West Side Highway Drop him off. He smokes another cigarette. He's a yo hold on gets on the phone walks up the block comes back down 1500 I Don't know was 1500. Yo call me tomorrow. I got you I get on the Grand Central Parkway I go home to Queens cuz I go in that same day at one. I Don't count the money till I park the car. I'm nervous. I'm like damn that can't be it couldn't be that easy I didn't touch anything. I didn't bag nothing up. They didn't tell me go somewhere. You didn't see anything camera. I didn't see nothing I Count the money is 1500. I'm like shit. This is my bi-weekly check with no overtime in 45 minutes Hope what were the rules about what you're allowed to do when you're off duty with your gun on you You're doing that for sole purpose of personal protection. Okay, it's just personal protection We know you're gonna run into inmates. We know this can escalate So this is to protect self So you're allowed to have it on you no matter what you're doing establishments might tell you no. Yeah, like Perfections would tell me no start this would tell me no for sure, but uh, yeah, that was really what it was for just to protect So that's a city is not that big That's such a big advantage to even be in a CEO in the first place because then you get to be one of the very few people That are able to move around like that. Why I'm thinking at this time not in hindsight You're paying me to do the security this moonlighting right is because I have a badge and a gun so we got pulled over and he had seven bricks in the back and I was like, hey my bad for the tense and they were like, oh go ahead. I Just saved us 20 years. Mmm. You know, so And that I painted that picture. No, well, they painted the picture Like this is what we're using you for right the fact that you're law enforcement Nobody ever told you when you got the job like hey, you're not allowed to go and do this Now obviously you getting the work through the prisoner is bad But they're not necessarily really gonna be able to prove that that's how you got connected. Let's do it anyway I could have said I went to high school with the girl that I knew Mutually, right, you know, so no no no, but you did have to let the department know if you were doing security on the outside Okay, they weren't preventing you from working outside. It just couldn't conflict with work hours or you know your responsibility as a Peace officer, right? Because you get peace officer status when you graduate the Academy, which means if I am in plain view of someone getting assaulted and as a peace officer, it's my duty to Stop that from happening and arrest. I have that duty and I have that okay from the city of New York to arrest, right? If a situation like that happened in the street because obviously if I happen on right because that's my job, right? So in retrospect They were basically having you do the most minimal amount of Actual in the beginning, right? And they were paying you very very well because they want to make you feel like this is an arrangement that you want to keep coming back Correct, and I'm not it's kind of justifying like hey, you're not bringing nothing in yeah until that situation happened So how long you do that for I'm doing this for like 18 months. Okay now in my fourth and a half year of Being a CEO I'm six months away from Toppe Toppe at that time was like 107 107,000 a year and I guess if I had the patience to wait those six months Maybe I wouldn't have done All these runs that I was doing and then started promoting prison contraband like I did when one of these runs the aunt that I Met in translation because I started meeting the Organization as a whole not just the brother. I was doing runs with the cousin. I was doing runs with the aunt I was doing runs with this person because it's like hey listen. I need you here I need you there and it would be a different person Mm-hmm So I kind of knew the inner workings of what was going on and who was who and this whole time obviously you're not an idiot You know that there's drugs being moved, but you're not seeing it right and I'm touching nothing So that's me justifying it to myself like I'm not here bagging scale and shit up like Hey, they get caught. I they hired me as a security guard, right? That's always gonna be my My my title to what I'm Positions here to do if they were to get hit with a recall or something, you know, and I mean Realistically if they had you know if there was a big sting done on this operation or whatever and they ended up pulling you guys over And you were in the car you would have a lot of plausible deniability there of just like I'm security guard like what do I know? But what's in the double direction officers I needed more money and I took this job I'm oblivious and I don't know what's going on. Yeah You know, that's what I would tell you a good lawyer and you know work your way through it But it wouldn't be too bad to do so because aside from the 1500 these runs started becoming a Frequent every two to three days. I was doing a run and I would get 4k 7k I guess it depended on how good they were doing. I got 12k once right and it's like oh shit Yeah, and then shortly after that 12k The aunt is like hey, um you work tomorrow and I'm like I do and I'm doing a mutual which means I'm gonna work for someone else so they could work for me another day So I could split like a shift like officers used to do that They'll work two days sixteen and be off for four days because you'll work my sixteen that I oh I work you or so if I'm in Five rain you work seven three I work three to eleven. I work here. I work Adam shift and vice versa Okay, and I'm like yeah, I do Can you give that to It's a small black box. It looks like a deck of cards. Okay, and it's inducted black duct tape It doesn't weigh anything and I'm just like Dear headlights. I'm like, alright Same same scenario that happened the first time where I don't like Analyze what's going on right now. I just kind of go with the flow and you didn't look inside the box No, I get back in my car and I'm just like and I'm squeezing And I'm like then the thing that I try to avoid from day one and Saving my integrity for this entire year for four years four and a half years that I've been a CO Now I have to break it because I've been doing these runs with these people. I'm already into deep balls You feel me like I'm already like They could have someone pick up a phone and say hey, we know someone So it was like I kind of had to at that point How much are they searching you on the way into Rikers? So the thing now is that I'm I am a tenured officer I'm not a rookie anymore. Even though four and a half years as officers there 20 25 plus But because there's so many classes back to back after my graduating every four months three four hundred at a time My seniority goes high and also I get a Steady shift. I told you I was on the wheel where they will change my shift and they do that purposely They want you to know all the ins and outs of the jail. So you can't say you don't know how to work this post In your first couple years of probation probation is two years After probation is when they gave me a gun. So that that was like, okay, you graduated, you know so my seniority is high and I'm not really getting the crazy housing areas that I used to before but I do work the shoe the Rhu unit restrictive housing unit on Rikers where these inmates have a mental health level of like Level 1 s like the highest level like they're the bugged out ones and they're doing box time now we were talking about the box These inmates get assigned the psych on site in the housing area. That's how bad this housing area is but it was open to do the escort From one to nine and me being a party goer going to Starless and live in my life because now I have a certain life where I can afford certain things because I'm making this money on the side It's like one to nine works perfect. I took the housing unit and I have more Leverage of walking the building because I can go to the visit. I'm not stuck to one housing unit So I'm like, wow, this is perfect. This is perfect. But now how can I bring this to this guy? So I did I held it down for like a week and then I told her over the phone I'm like, yo, how do you need me to do this if I don't see him no more because I'm in this housing area now I'm not on that side of the building All right, I'll call you back Call me back within minutes and say give it to this guy Someone part of the organization but on that side of the building Cool ironically the next day that I go into work. They say hey, listen the one and I shift that you got It's gonna start uh next payroll next check. So uh, just go to uh, dawn 12 Don't tell us where this guy is. I'm like, oh, shit This is perfect. Now. I could just do the handle myself and get rid of it Even though if they asked me to do this again, I might have to but if I get it off my person Like I feel free. Yeah and running that risk As much as you only get like a year to do uh, when you get here with promoting prison contraband The cocaine and all the stuff and running from burrow to burrow on the outside gave me eight years But I was scared to death to do this because this is all the shit I worked up for Going to john j doing tsa like Taking these city exams and all that stuff. It's like I'm throwing this shit away Like that's why I felt that I didn't feel like that doing an industry But you never like even knew what was in this little black container back on okay, it's tobacco on weight I don't even know that because that's what I got hit with You know, they they uh found oxycodone pills in my car. They found like two pounds of weed. Um On my vehicle, but I'll go back to the sting operation. Okay, and I got caught with way more than that Okay, so how many more times do you end up bringing stuff in for people? Probably like eight Eight more times only eight. That's crazy. Yeah within a span of like two months because now It's this is the first time that I'm actually like doing this and it's now every time I do a run this little Box this little compartment thing this little square. It's kind of like mandatory It's like you from everyone on now you're gonna get one of these Really and if you don't see this guy give it to this guy and they're giving you money for it each time or not No, I'm not getting paid for the run for the promoting prison contraband separately I'm getting paid for my whole hearted runs that I was doing right and the money is still coming in one day I go to work and I see this guy. He goes you know stuff with with my brother and and I'm just like, okay But I got away with it in my mind and my soul. I got away with it I don't ask too much and he gets into detail. Yeah, man. They're just my money up. I'm good. They're not behind me They're running shit and I'm like, okay Here It's another number call this number And I'm just like I thought I was over with this. I thought I got away with it. Nobody even suspected. I've I've gotten certificate of appreciation from the warden For getting a cuff key from an inmate stealing it from another officer from the slot So I'm I'm like nobody's suspecting anything in this building that I'm this corrupt guy bringing contraband and Transporting cocaine throughout new york city and you never said a word about it to anyone you worked with couldn't I didn't have no one to tell that too. I couldn't confide in anybody if you knew that someone else was doing it then I guess you could but Even then it's much better. I didn't know my peers and friends and family at home. Nobody knew but I did live lavishly enough where it's like And man, maybe being a ceo pays off in new york city, you know, yeah, but um, he gives me a number again He goes call this number. This is the guy And I'm like, this is the guy They like this All right Again, I'm already In hindsight, I don't think this way, but I'm already into the pause or it's like, okay, uh I can't say no anymore. Right. I call a guy big columbia accent. I'm half columbia Hey, what's up making um, uh Can you meet me at this restaurant? I know the restaurant he's talking about so I'm queen's boulevard Yeah, yeah, that's good. Yeah, I'll meet you there. All right. Can you meet me at this time? Cool I do exactly that the next morning. It's like 11 a.m I get there this guy looks like he could be my uncle He's like 40 something sweatsuit white tee new balances He goes, um, so how's this guy and I'm like, he's cool. He goes. Yeah, he's going through a lot right now. Um But I heard about you. So, you know, you're fucking me now And I'm just like, all right, and I'm in this columbia acts Uh, uh, uh, this columbia restaurant broad day talking about these dealings All right, cool Uh, can you start tomorrow? Yeah, but it has to be at this time. Yeah, that's cool I go with him Similar run we go to the 44th and 10th parking lot the same first spot that I went to with the brother Same exact situation Pickup drop off It works 4k Damn, I don't want to stop this shit. Yeah He doesn't give me nothing to bring in so he doesn't even deal with that. That's uh, little shit to him, you know This is the connect, right? We do this again two three more times No contraband, but the last time he told me yeah, you got somebody that uh Is kind of like you and I'm like like badge and yeah In my time as a ceo, I've had uh inmates tell me about officers that was bringing shit But it's like locker room talk, you know, like nobody confronts anybody. There's no time for that You know, there's chaos going on people cutting each other over here. I don't give What adam does as ceo, you know, so I remember hearing this from a ceo that I was working with frequently The day goes by And I have that on my mind and I see the ceo that I remember it may tell me he was bringing shit in and making shit hot And I'm like, yo bro, uh, if you're gonna do the right thing make sure if you're gonna do the wrong thing make sure you do it right and he was just like Getting what I was trying to get at and I'm like listen, bro If you want to get some real money, like I could help you out and I'm real I'm reeling him in now Because the columbian guy is asking for somebody else. He just wants to cover ground. He told me and I said if this guy's willing to promote prison contraband on his own He'll look at this and see the real money because I know he's getting like five seven nine hundred dollars, you know I bring him on a run. I introduce him to the columbian guy We do two runs together. He's ecstatic He gets two k. I get two k and in my head. I'm just like I make way more with these people but you know, it's kind of the introduction And he's trying to do runs on himself by himself now and it's just like all right cool as long as I could ease off from it We don't hear from the columbian guy for two weeks And I'm just like oh I don't see the other guy in the prison I'm like Maybe it's a dead issue. Maybe now now I can ease off from it even though this guy knows what's going on I know what he was doing because you're loving the money But you're also kind of like if this stops it would be sort of a relief to it would be It came to the point where I was with my girlfriend at the time and I wanted to throw my phone into farak away beach I'm just like man This you know, it got to me like and you never told your girl either. Nobody. Nobody but we you know I did let the people around me Reap the benefits But you know, I just do a lot of overtime. Yeah, so it looks good. We having two cars. It's like that's not Farfetched me spending seven k at starless. That's not crazy Either ceo he makes 100, you know, like so We don't hear anything and it's like mutually like all right. I guess it's over between Me and my partner now. That's also a ceo Spoke too soon get a call. Hey, listen, uh, meet me sunday morning. Uh, I mean monday morning 9 a.m It's a day after father's day Meet me at the target parking lot uh in washington heights We get there We get into his car. There's two duffel bags. There's a brown one and a black one I'm on the right side the passenger. He's in the driver's side the columbia guys in the front turns around He goes, listen, uh, I'll text you the address. I'm waiting for it right now But we're gonna go to yonkers And we're like, all right, cool. He goes, uh, you grab the black one telling me and telling him to grab the brown one And this is done strategically. I'll get to that we get out the car and He tells us I'm gonna go to the bathroom and then I'll text you guys the number It's 8 9 a.m. In the morning target is not open yet Um We fit that split second. I see a enterprise van a rental van the white big van's Doors bust wide open. It's a dea Best out lasers everything get on the ground get on the ground And I just look at my partner. We each have a duffel bag in our hand And I'm just like Wow I'm on my I'm on my belly right now arms behind my back. I get a dea agent Neemey in the back take my personal protection glock 19 that I have uh, take the um the magazine out Put me in the car and I'm just like what the is going on in the midst of this I see my partner. We're looking at each other stunned and scared and we see all these agents around us I see the columbia guy tussling with the the agents trying to get into the car And I'm like yo, this is real and I'm telling myself to wake up wake up. This is a dream Yeah, because you've seen this in a movie a million times felt like everything the slow motion shit that people talk about that's real That's how it felt. You know, I didn't think this was happening And then like I'm third person. I'm like, yo get up Wake up. It was a bad dream. Yeah, because that's the kind of thing that you dream about or especially you haven't actually done it You know, I don't know Wait, but so the columbian guy was the one who was an informant who was lining all this up We're getting there. Okay at this point in time. I don't know who the columbian guy is yet, right We get into the car. It's like a full focus. There's a big white guy officer to the left of me in the backseat young asian woman in the front and I'm just like We're on the west side highway. Hey, what priest in over going to he goes now we're going to To headquarters and he shows me his badge and drug enforcement agency. I already saw it on the on the vest and I'm just like what what We get into this building. It's like a maze to go upstairs. We get off on handcuffs by like four fettles the elevators bus open as a big emblem drug enforcement agency like they keep reminding you where the You at they put me in the bullpen and I just don't know what's going on. They put my Coldy in the bullpen next to me and they put the columbian next to him And in and out people start coming in and out and then they grab us separately and they hey listen I we just want you to fill this out. You don't need a lawyer for this. We just want to make sure this is your name Your last name all this stuff. I'm going through the motions with them. I haven't said a word aside from yes. Yes. Yes. That's my name that's my name And then one of the agents comes and goes to me because um, you know what you were doing I don't know I don't say yes. I don't say no, you know growing up, uh, especially where I'm from you're told Don't say anything. Yeah Wait for counsel. Do not say anything. So I did exactly that He goes this guy's pretty big man. We weren't watching you guys. We were watching him We know that you guys were just doing a little security shit. That's why he's playing Yeah, you know you want to talk to me and I'm just like The district attorney comes in and says hey, you want to talk to my guys and And now it's gonna be a long day your code the over there. He's singing the columbian guy. He's singing And I'm just the columbian guy's bigger than us like I'm mentally We're there for about four hours They take our fingerprints and then we head back downstairs and go back into the car and I ask again Where are we going? Oh, you're going to Manhattan tombs. Now. This is a city jail. It's not federal anymore I understand that the feds arrested me and again, I don't I don't know what's going on Uh, now these are my peers. These are new york city correction officers that Work in the same system that I do and they're like what the f*** happened. I'm like, I don't know I get on the phone. I call my mom. I'm crying. I'm like, yo, I don't know what happened I was working security like I'm running this same motion. Yeah The attorney comes in this attorney is pointed to me by the union And the president at the time norm in seabed For correction officer, there's a union that we pay union dues for and they Back us up when things like this happen when you need some type of advice or anything legal They appointed me a lawyer for arraignment The lawyer comes in the bullpen. Hey, tell me what happened and I break everything down to him. He goes, uh, all right, cool We're gonna get arraigned. All right. I call my mom. She comes to arraignment with my girlfriend Arraignment is 750,000 over 500,000 dollar bill And I'm just like yo, they give serial killers that like what like that's crazy A1 felony possession of a control substance a one attempted sale of a control substance I'm looking back at my mom and I'm just like We can't pay that like I'm I'm not going anywhere. You know, my lawyer says hey, I'll talk to you tomorrow when you get to Westchester County, they're not gonna put you on like He comes the next morning my mom comes the next morning and It just unfolds there. I tell them everything that I was doing this and that and uh, I go through the motions of Going through court, which is one of the worst things that I probably endured was going to court being shackled You know risk to ankle and being in that little dog can in the back the little dog kennel And like man, like again everything I worked for all the shit I did everything that amounted to me being Law abiding citizen and the city employee that everyone's proud of it just went to shit Wow and I mean, how long were you waiting to face trial almost two years My first offer was 12 and you were locked up this whole time locked up this whole time I'm in westchester county. So while I'm in westchester county. I'm going back and forth city Of new york is coming to pick me up Which is my peers other correction offices taking me to court And they're just like damn man, like, you know, you get people that like feel for me You get people like hey that could have been me It was probably officers that transported me that probably did it themselves once in their time. Yeah, they're like Probably dudes doing it right right then and there since I've left right is in 2014 There's been over 35 officers arrested and indicted for the same exact thing Not so much the transporting outside, but the promoting prison contraband. There was a chick that just got eight years on too long ago so this type of News it's not really news. It's just ongoing news Yeah, because I mean I sit here with gang members or whatever who tell me about CEOs bringing in drugs like all the time or bringing in whatever all the time and you see it now with social media with phones is like, all right How do how how are the phones coming in if they're not? Being smuggled in through civilians. Yeah, so it has to be office and they don't just offer civilians to like the The inmates don't act like it's that big a deal from their perspective because they're not the ones taking the risk Yeah, but we took that off in the beginning saying hey, you won't do this We won't do that, you know, that's kind of what my lawyer threw in my face was like Hey, man, your minority they gave an opportunity to Fuck that up and it looks bad for the city and it looks bad for the mayor and internal affairs and Drug enforcement at NYPD. They spent a lot of money on you and with the overtime and restitution and you know You're the poster boy of promoting prison contraband Why because so much violence has been happening the last three years so many cuts and slashings and stabbings 30 40 a month jail-wide It's like we got to blame somebody And we're gonna blame you the beautiful part of this is that the columbian guy Is a DEA agent right so all that shit was acting when he's like trying to get back into the first guy that initiated the entire Thing from hey, let's do security is a confidential informer. Oh, so he was from the beginning. Okay the very beginning this was all tailored to Get to where we got to whether or not because I don't think every single run I did was uh Federally watched. I still think he was doing what he was doing on the outside It just used me as leverage enough to say he's been doing this With me and we'll continue doing it. So if we grab him And I give you guys him Can we talk to the district attorney and get a little less on this attempted murder? The guy didn't die. That's how these guys are talking. He didn't die. I tried to kill him So in exchange for that it's like I'll give you someone that's on your team But so we'll make it look good But when he switched you from the original plug that you were doing security for to the columbian guy That's when I feel it's like the trajectory changed of all right now. You're being monitored. Oh, okay Oh, so all the stuff you were doing in the first place might not have been monitored know that until And I'm saying this now in hindsight Uh, if I would have went to trial I would have probably gotten that through my minutes and understood more of how intricate this investigation was because it was called the Operation correction connection So it was like this was premeditated to work a certain way and it did but you ended up Uh, taking a plea deal right? I took eight years And but the whole thing that stands out to me is that how were they actually going to be able to prove that you knew What was in these duffel bags if you never saw it you never transport like I mean you transported it But you never saw it nobody there's no wiretap of you saying like okay. Do you have the coke? One of my main charges that I got After every attempt and every sale was conspiracy You can't win that Yeah, okay. He conspired. He knew exactly what they were doing He conspired with all these people that are currently doing so no he knew he knew right I wouldn't lie and say oh, I'm working for a jeweler and there's rubies and emeralds here I wasn't doing that security right so conspiracy would have me over Um, I copped out to a one felony criminal possession Conspiracy two and four bribery receiving and promoting prison contraband. Wow And I took eight years with five years post. Um, I was west chester county for almost two years Chester county was cool. Your lawyer told you like you got to take a plea deal You're he said if we go to trial the minimum you're doing is a 12 because off the a1 felonies Eight automatically new york state, which is anything over eight ounces And I had 77 ounces of me. So they would have hit me with that two three four times Right, even though it would have been concurrent because it's my first time and it's not violent And you know, they understand circumstance what happened. I probably got 12 Damn, so taking the eight was a small idea Understanding that I could go to work release because it's a nonviolent felony But something I aspire to do. So, uh, I would write the the department of corrections telling them. Hey, I'm two years within my a release state Can you guys put me in work release and they're like, uh, you know Like you're in a max eight prison I got I went to a max eight prison because I had the eight years. So I'm with lifers. I'm with people doing 40 50 plus Um, and also my status as a correction officer put me in a certain unit and clinton max So, you know, I'm there with like joey farmer Uh, barbie schmurder like there's uh, true life was there and then I once I got there true life at home um, true life was with me on rikers on or two like you know, all these people are there and No one knowing their fate. It's like This is just a system a whirlwind system. Just like they spit chewed me and spit me out. They're continuously doing that And it's nobody's fault. You can't give you a name and point It's just the way things are structured the judicial system the criminal system the mental health system these kids are getting Cups full of uh Pills to take and they sleep all day on rikers. And it's like damn man. They're just sedating themselves because nobody wants to be there Yeah, that's crazy. Even though i'm uh over here Not really preaching, but it's just like I want to be the example Don't be me because I got caught thinking I wasn't going to be him and I was him right so Uh paying my debt to society uh doing those six years. That wasn't easy You know, but it's like that's kind of what i'm and no pun intended. That's what i'm promoting now Right. You want to take the test? Go ahead. You want to work on rikers? Um, you want to see misery? You want to see people fighting for their life and freedom? and violence Go ahead. How many drill rappers on rikers island right now? A lot right? It's a system that it's like nobody wins. So it's like that's really what i'm saying. So when you go to prison though, uh Had you already accepted it at that point like to the extent where it doesn't feel I accepted it once I took the eight years because it was like, all right, there's an end right still light at the tunnel I only got to do uh four because i'm already two years in I do six out of that eight Once I got to the two years I qualified for work release. I used to write these people my pent game was insane and I was letting them know hey listen, uh Black and whites as this and here it is and here's the penal code and they're like All right, give them work release came out on work release I'm working at Whole Foods in the city like i'm trying to just reintegrate back into society six years is a long time I didn't do that as an officer. I did more time as an inmate than an officer So again the dichotomy of what i'm trying to explain is like I've seen both parts and I understand them Equally, you know what was prison like as opposed to what your observations of rikers were like Prison was more of the punishment Prison was more of the sit down and think about what you did for everyone Uh jail is surviving just to get to that. Yeah But so what there's less violence in prison. There's more gruesome violence in prison people are dying and clinton max where I was at um, I forget the name uh, richard and and and something matt Uh, they're the two guys that escaped from clinton the year before I got there. Oh, so the ceos are on edge Because they look dumb So they're like treating inmates very unfairly and ceos of state are different from ceos in the city These are my peers in the city You're an inmate, but uh, I'm an officer and we went to the same high school together Right. I didn't grow up with nobody upstate. So uh, the culture that new york city culture doesn't really exist up there But does it switch over from being like gang oriented to race oriented? It's both. It's still predominantly both But it's just taking a step further. Yeah, the respect that Uh is amongst inmates is it's it's thin enough that once you cross it and I don't do anything about it I'm gonna be a target now. Like you have to attack. That's like a killer be killed mindset Did I have a fight? No, never never how'd you avoid that officer to inmate? I don't know man Uh, I would say it's just good energy and like I also saved a lot of people and uh, I say that egotistically but Having a conversation you could have thought about killing yourself today and just me having a conversation with you about the nicks I gave you some light, you know, like certain things like that. So if an inmate asks me for something and I can help Or assist I would plus uh, I was uh the barber up north So I helped people that didn't have money and I'm like, I got you y'all pay your soup next week. I don't I don't need a soup man. I'm all right the bad things the things I was doing uh The the things that I thought I was doing right for the wrong reason or wrong for the right reason pay me back while I was in jail in prison So you never had to like I hear a lot of like race riots going down where you kind of have to fight I did get the pressure but I got this pressure as an officer from being too cool with black inmates Even though i'm afro latino, it's like, oh, you're too cool with the black inmates. I get inmates. I said that while I was an officer I also got inmates that told me while I was an inmate and it's just like, well, you know, I'm from jamaica avenue, bro like I don't know. I didn't grow up with just Dominicans or just the Puerto Ricans or just the cuban So it's like the fact that I had that equal open door policy where everybody kind of helped me and also They're glorifying what I did. I'm a golden boy. I was doing the right thing in their eyes. I'm helping the Less right, you know, so they're looking at you as kind of what they want the seos to be just trying to get the bag Right, that's it And he's doing so he wrote a book about it and he's trying to make this into a film because you had already written this book before you Went to prison. I wrote this book while I was in prison. Oh, okay. I was in climax. Um, because it's like a A real lockdown facility. Yes, I worked at barbershop. Yes, I worked up front But I was in myself for 16 hours. So, you know, uh, I got light at the tunnel. It's like i'm just counting down. Did you have opportunities to Start committing crimes and stuff like that that you had to kind of use yourself discipline to turn down There were certain things that it's like Could have probably got me box time or something, you know, certain things in jail where it's like you can't do that because it's against the rules but ethically no Nobody that was involved in that that I was around Will put me in that position again because they're like, no man, like he don't deserve this. This is not him You know, he really was trying to do the right thing. He just He bent the rules too much. That's what it was. What was that like when you first got there though? And they're going over your paperwork and figuring out why you're in there The seals know and that's one thing that I was worried about more because I'm already used to inmate culture you know, so I spent my From 25 to 31 I've been in prison in jail, you know, so it's like like, uh, they're certain ethics and codes that I already know, you know There's certain ways of doing things that I already know So I never stepped on nobody's toes in a sense. So I never got nobody to the point of Oh, I'ma get at the main guys or I'ma put a shank in the cell so you could go to a box or Nothing, like I really just played being myself and it worked out That's what's up. So, okay You do six years and then you get work release. I do, uh, yes, I get work release. Um Going into 2020 so COVID had been March 20 something 2020 they shut the city down. I was released from work release March 3rd So my integration into society was the city shutting down Yeah being home, which is kind of a good thing because it's like I can acclimate a little better, you know, like That's not that ruckus of like a million people on 42nd street or stuff like that, you know, so It was fairly easy. Really. Okay. Wait, so but you're supposed to get a job, but everything is closed. Well, uh, you know, uh This is pre Oh, you right before I was doing oh you're talking about after Yeah, also after I got a land I landed a job as a case manager for uh department of homeless services They had a program with uh breaking ground. I will go to like what, you know, a skid row And just kind of do like a wellness check that was kind of my way of paying My debt forward and it also looked good with my parole officer, right? Because it's like hey, listen you're helping drug addicts and homeless people Get back on their feet and avoid the shelter system and go to a safe haven and get housing I did that for a while. Kobe was a prevalence still um, I started doing kovac compliance on our production sets I work at paramount with um, charlamagne the god and i'm just like getting back into that rhythm and I've just been doing my thing ever since Wow, that's dope. Uh, so What like restrictions do you have or were you on probation for a while? Parole up until 2022 and in 2022 I moved to Miami. Okay. And I've been in Miami since So you don't have any kind of parole or anything like that this one I literally just received about a month ago a certificate of relief of disability. So Uh, I had uh, don't think because I was law enforcement and became a felon that it's like, oh, he's still law enforcement like no I'm just a felon now. So applying and getting uh housing was not that easy In florida, they go through your record and they go they go through a panel to say Yeah, we'll let them live here and I got not I've been denied twice Because of my record. So there has been hurdles, you know, there has been hurdles getting employment here and there But I still manage I work in production now I do security on the side. So it's like certain things that like I always swim and I always I always been a hustler Right. I promote the book. Uh, like I said, I had an initial meeting with netflix in 2025 So they know what I'm trying to do. It's just right now the backing comes with The culture that I'm surrounded by You know, so that's what we're working on right now So you did you get the idea that netflix was sort of interested is they're interested what they want right now They told me was we need a Director and an a list celebrity Wow package it and we'll get it on and they kind of put that on you they enjoy the perspective Right. Well, you know, I don't have a agent or nothing. This is a one-man army But they put it in perspective like this is this is a cool POV because This guy's dibbling and dabbling in the most notorious jail Right, the most notorious, but they kind of put it on you that you need to be the one to find the director and the celebrity Well, they know where I'm coming from the the book's only been out five years Like they see the traction they see me do the podcast and the interview so little by little It's like they're just watching it grow and I guess when they can put all the eggs in a basket We're ready. Wow interesting. So Do you think that there's anybody who could get you to? Go back to the dark side of doing a legal shit at this point in your life or not I don't think so because freedom is too cool man freedom is great Just being able to see you a few days ago in Miami and say hey, we're gonna chop it up in LA You can't do that while you're in prison. Yeah, I just running that risk like I remember stack bundles said, uh, you know, uh If you're running that risk it better be worth your lifestyle. Mm-hmm and it's just like Yeah, I mean, honestly, that's one of the the more helpful things of like having encountered so many people that spend big chunks of their life In prison is just constantly kind of getting this reminder Of how shitty it is and how much it's not worth the risk say it's part of the game though Yeah, like hey, listen, I'll take this seven years But my family and my kids are in public school and you know, we have a lake and we live Uh Lavishly because of what I do, but I just gotta sit down and Some some people are strong enough to take that. Yeah, and I mean I meet people who like from childhood kind of look at going to prison as just Either like an acceptable like almost like the way that like a normal kid thinks about going to college Or they think they think it's glamorous. Oh, yeah, it's just part of it Maybe I make a million dollars over these 10 years and then I got to go spend seven years locked up I mean to me the math really don't make sense. I mean sometimes mentally I tell myself I'll see something happening or like something escalating and I'm like, man, they're not gonna do anything. I could tell by Environment that these two are just talking they're not gonna hit each other Just because I know when people are really about to hit each other how it looks Yeah, I mean as far as the streets these days like I saw this 21 savage interview a few months ago that I always think of is like In the 80s if you were to go and be become like a big-ass drug dealer or whatever There was actually enough money for you to make that it could justify the idea and the prison sentence says weren't as long So you could like, you know make a million dollars a couple million dollars And then maybe you have to go do a couple years and that trade-off it seems like it kind of made sense whereas now It's so much harder for you to make money in the streets And then the penalties are so much worse that the the math just really doesn't add up I mean listen shout out to hip-hop shout out to rap culture. I love it. I love listening to drug music I love listening to young gz and That's how I was thinking young gz really kind of sold a lot of people on a lie there not just him but a million rappers But but there's ground work to it, but it's just experience and it sounds good on on wax, you know Yeah, not definitely. Yeah, it's it's it's a weird uh I mean, I guess I feel like rap doesn't glorify the drug dealer archetype the same way that they used to It depends what they're saying, you know, how there's like cocaine rap, you know how like Benny and them talk about like certain Things like pusha tees a certain thing. Yeah Drug like but all those guys are grown enough and I feel like the audience is sophisticated enough that they don't they kind of see through The generic drugs kingpin talk. They know something. Yeah, we know that these rappers aren't talking to The columbian connect through a satellite phone. You got a room say yeah But then also like the era of gz and gucci being on top of the game. It's like We didn't necessarily know the extent to which they were exaggerating But then also like the truth is is that gz really was around bmf That's the thing a part of it has to be believable and that's where the credibility from I guess, you know The character itself comes like yeah, you did this, you know I do feel like there's like good changes in society where it feels like young people are less Impressed by the the sort of hustler archetype, you know, we you know, we all are hustlers Internally, we all want to feel and reap the benefits of hard work But then it's it's because now it feels like the killer Themes are like way more popular even though that almost feels like that's kind of on the way out too The rappers are on right giz island right now But whereas new york drill at it's like all time low like that seemed like it was going to be huge and all the stars from that world Are basically locked up or dead, you know, yeah But now it's kind of like well where does hip hop go from here when we kind of used up the drug dealer Shit in the killer shit bring back some good I don't know some good battle rap some good like yeah, let them diss each other, but we know it's entertainment We don't gotta hurt nobody Yeah, or give me some like, uh, you know the fuji's make that like the default rap style. I don't know that I don't want to listen to this Shit I like promoted peace now Yeah, no, definitely. So okay. Yeah, you're uh, like what would you say your message is that you're trying to spread to the youth? going forward We all make mistakes. I'm just trying to sell you mine. Hmm That's real What uh, what are the moments that make you feel the most alive haven't been out of prison for this long? People I was locked up with whether I was officer in me and still getting that love, especially through social media Yeah, I got a lot of messages like oh man. I just came home. I'm proud of you Uh, you were in three main with me. You were such a cool guy. I also get the message like yeah, we were in clan together um Let's think up and smoke like it's like There's a certain brotherhood and respect that you give someone when you're in this vulnerable situation and Hmm The the the duration of time that I did I got to see and meet a lot of good people. It's not Terrible horrible people only that are incarcerated Definitely do you have hope for like a place like rikers and the changes that are necessary I hope it closes. I'm not gonna say that incarceration is not needed for many because some people are out of hand So people need to be Uh Sat down You know, so but rikers specifically you'd like to see it closed shut down and again I'm big on like the population should be you know, less for the officer to handle because If I got 50 inmates, I'm taking them to chow and then you got 50 inmates taking them to chow. We're crossing That's not we're we're all gonna suffer You know because it's it's it's just not made to to to work and that's again going back to the system How Um, all right anybody you want to thank or anything else you want the world to know thank you bro I appreciate it. Thank you to everybody that has pushed and uh been behind across the bridge of rikers island story Big screen. Um, this will be very entertaining. Uh, you'll see the different layers of this ecosystem that is rikers island Uh, I don't talk about myself a lot. I just make myself a character But that's how I'm pushing the the film to be or the series We'll see what the money's at what the budget is that but I think this will hit home especially uh People that have been in this scenario whether you've been To rikers to visit you've been in may yourself you took the test You're a civilian cook or doctor and you see the The way things are happening. It's like it's This is something that stays with you. You know, that's why I always push it like I don't like talking about this all the time But it's just like it's to remember and kind of spread the message like Hey, uh Don't do the wrong thing. Yeah, no definitely some message that a lot of people need to hear Steven I appreciate your time man. Thank you, brother. And uh, everybody go check out the book I'm sure it's on amazon or something like that every single platform I did the audio book it's on spotify app music everywhere Hell yeah, Steven no jumper coolest podcast in the world. Check us out on youtube tiktok instagram, etc Like comment and subscribe and shout out to our members Appreciate it, man