From the Vault: The Great Eye of Jupiter, Part 1

This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name is Robert Lam. Today is Saturday, so we have a vault episode for you. This is going to be the great eye of Jupiter, part one of two. It was originally published 5, 8, 2025. Let's jump right into that eye. Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of I Heart Radio. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name is Robert Lam. And I am Joe McCormick. And today on Stuff to Blow Your Mind, we're going to be talking about the great red spot of Jupiter. That's right. We've, you know, we've talked about the Jovian moons before. Jupiter comes up time and time again. We did an episode talking about, you know, the mythical connotations of Jupiter, sure. But, you know, we've never done an episode just on Jupiter. And we're not going to do that today. We're focusing on a detail of Jupiter. I think Jupiter is just too big. Like, is it too big of a topic? Well, probably not. We could cover it in multiple episodes. But Jupiter is just so large that it feels intimidating to even attempt to cover all of it. Oh, we're doing it piece by piece. Defeat in detail. That's right. It's like eating an elephant, as they say. Yeah. Jupiter is the largest planet in our solar system, commanding, as we've covered before, its own vast system of moons. Its massiveness is such that a Jupiter mass is actually used as a unit to describe the mass of other massive cosmic bodies. And given its size and proximity to Earth, humans have known of the fifth planet since very ancient times. So long before the invention of the telescope, with observations made by ancient Babylonians, ancient Chinese, among others, it's bright. And it is observable to the naked eye. Right. You may, in fact, associate Jupiter with the dawn of the age of the telescope. And that could be because Jupiter is very important and said the story of Galileo's early observations, like Galileo. One of the most important things he saw early on with the telescope was the moons of Jupiter. When he discovered the Galilean moons named after him now. But yeah, we knew about the planet as a point of light in the sky. One of the movable stars going back thousands of years. That's right. So there are a number of what I mean. Jupiter is an immensely important planet as in addition to just being immense in all sorts of ways. The main thing we're going to be talking about here today, though, is is less essential, but more of an interesting detail and indeed an iconic detail of its appearance, that being the Great Red Spot, the big red storm that is is visible on the planet, Jupiter. And I think more to the point is highly visible in every illustration you've ever seen of the solar system, every drawing of the of the solar system and specifically the planet, Jupiter, that you ever had to do or chose to do as a child and onward. I would say that the Great Red Spot sort of gives Jupiter a face that some of the other gas giants don't have, though, as we may discuss later on in this episode or the next, there are similar visible weather patterns and storms on some of the other gas giants. There is a there's a big spot on Saturn. There's a spot on Neptune as we've talked about before. But I would say none of those other features are as clear and easy to see. And as just kind of face like as the Red Spot on Jupiter. Yeah, like a Great Red Eye staring at us, judging us, maybe protecting us a little bit. And, you know, of course, it's not really an eye. You know, glad it's nothing. Oh, what if it was just a blemish on Jupiter's face and we've just been staring at it the whole time, so rude. My belts are up here. Yeah. So yeah, even with great vision and optimal eyesight, humans were unable to glimpse the details of the gas giant swirling surface until the invention of the telescope in the early 17th century CE. So to be clear, humans have only been capable of observing the Great Red Spot of Jupiter for roughly three centuries. And the really interesting thing on top of this is that the planet's key identifying mark, again, that every school child can replicate, is neither a permanent or even a long lasting feature, certainly in terms of the life of a planet, but rather a temporary atmospheric occurrence that seemingly comes and goes. We've only been observing it for a very short amount of time. You know, it's as a human observed phenomenon. Yeah. And I guess it can actually be weird in terms of its existence in time from two different directions. On one hand, if you think of it as the feature of the surface of a planet, the fact that it's a weather pattern makes it actually quite kind of transient and unstable. It, you know, it sort of undermines the ground beneath your feet to think that the face of another planet in our solar system, which we learned when we were children in school, could be changing within our lifetimes even. On the other hand, if you think about it as a weather pattern, it's kind of freaky how stable it is for decades or even hundreds of years. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great point. All right. Well, let's let's get into the history of the observation of the Great Red Spot. So given that the observation in the Great Red Spot wasn't possible before the telescope, when do human observers start noticing it during the telescope era? Based on what I was reading here, the earliest possible observation and I think ultimately, as we'll discuss, unlikely observation dates back to May 9th, 1664. And that's when 17th century English polymath and author of Micrographia, Robert Hook, observed something on the face of Jupiter that he described as a small spot moving east to west, quote, in the biggest of the three obscure belts of Jupiter. Now, we could easily do a whole episode on Robert Hook. He has hands in multiple areas of scientific inquiry. He was especially active in the study of the microscopic world using new microscopic technology. His book, Micrographia, concerns this work. In fact, I'm to understand he coined the term cell in this book. So he was concerned with the little things, but also the ginormous things such as Jupiter. But based on a subsequent 1666 observation and 1987 analysis by Marco Forlani in the Journal of the British Astronomical Association, I was reading his thought that this would have situated the spot in what is now known as the North Equatorial Belt, the Great Black Belt, according to the American Physical Society, while the Great Red Spot that we know today is in the South Equatorial Belt. So given what we've already explored and what we'll be getting into, you might well wonder if this was actually a different storm that Hook was observing. Well, possibly. But Forlani's argument here was that Hook actually was looking at the shadow of the or the the transit, you know, the silhouette of the second largest Jovian moon Callisto or some other transit shadow. The Royal Society back hooks claim, however, and there are, you know, various arguments about, you know, nationalism and so forth that are that would have been wound up in that judgment at the time. Yeah. So I've read the same analysis. So the question is, did did he observe the same storm that we see today as the Great Red Spot? Probably not. Was it maybe a different storm than we see today? Possibly, or was it the the shadow cast or the silhouette of one of the moons? And Forlani says the latter. Yeah, yeah. And that seems to be a fairly convincing argument here. Now, the other possibility in terms of first or earliest documented sighting of the Red Spot takes us to 1665, just a year after Hook's sighting. And that's when Italian French astronomer Giovanni Cassini noted noted it for the first time. In his letters, he described weeding out different transit shadow spots and noting, quote, a permanent one, which was often seen to return in the same place with the same size and shape. So he totaled 13 observations. He calculated its rotation. He did not note the color, perhaps, according to the Journal of the British Astronomical Association, because the instrumentation was too low light to really pick up on any colorization. Now, again, historians between these two tend to favor the Cassini observation because it seems that Cassini is definitely observing. There's a stronger case to be made that he's observing an actual storm here, an actual storm spot on Jupiter. But an important distinction to make here is that this might not have been the same storm that we see and know today as being the iconic great storm of Jupiter. The article that I referenced on the Journal of the British Astronomical Association titled May 1664, Hook versus Cassini, Who Discovered Jupiter's Red Spot, points out that the first of all, the history of the red spot or spots is imperfect and that no one observed the red spot on Jupiter after 1713 until 1831. That's when Heinrich Schwabba observed it and then described in much greater detail by American astronomer C.W. Pritchett in 1878, often references being the individual to, quote, unquote, rediscover the great red spot. So the permanent spot of Cassini and the great red spot that astronomers have been observing since at least 1831, they might be two very different storms. Since around 2012, scientists have observed a shrinking of the great red spot and recent flaking has also led some to think that it might one day disappear. Some have predicted in the past as little as decades from the point of observation. Others and certainly I think more recent observers have urged more caution on this. I mean, I say caution, not that this is really any threat to us whatsoever. But it tends to they tend to suggest that it may last for some centuries yet. I'm not sure if it will last to 2401. Hard to say. But this is ultimately one of those things where no one really knows because, again, it's a storm. Everyone is familiar with the difficulties we have in predicting how the weather works on our planet. You know, it's a complex system. Likewise, it's it's difficult even with Jupiter to figure out, well, this storm has lasted for decades at least. But will it last for decades more centuries more? We just don't know. Right. So not caution in the sense of it could harm us, but maybe caution in the sense of like, don't don't go to one of the betting markets and put big money on the storm being there or disappearing in a certain timeline. There's not a whole lot we know. It would be very interesting to see how the public responded to it. Because I think back to, of course, changes in categorizations or adjustments in categorizations of Pluto as a planet or some other you know, astral body. And you know, people ended up having strong opinions about that because the idea that Pluto is not on the list anymore it made them feel threatened at times or wounded in a way. And I can imagine a similar reaction to scientists telling everyone, you know, the red spot in Jupiter is not there anymore. So don't draw Jupiter the same way and please everyone make corrections to your textbooks. You know, thinking back on the Pluto thing, some people, I think, genuinely do get frustrated when they have to update what they know about something. But on the other hand, I think a lot of that was just people trying to be cute. Yes. Just making a little jokey post on Facebook. Don't take my Pluto away. But somehow, I don't know, it like it's something that I think snowballed from mostly ironic posting to begin with into like, I don't know, somehow an actual kind of sentiment about like I'm dissatisfied with astronomy today. Yeah, it kind of at least dips its toes, even in jest into sort of science denial, doesn't it? Yes, though, of course, the idea of a planet is not like a consistent objective category over time. The whole thing was like we're updating the definition of what we consider a planet. Yeah, I mean, we could have gone in the other direction and just added a list of other things on the end there. I can't imagine people wanted to memorize more planets. So, you know, I feel like this was a good balance. I hadn't thought of it that way. Yeah, you want to add series to the list? You are. But that's Pluto, Pluto's small and ultimately insignificant compared to the glory of Jupiter and and then, of course, it's Red Storm. It's great red spot. There is another, by the way, at least one more. There is the little red spot, also known as Red Spot Junior or Oval BA, which formed in 1998 and 2000 from three white oval shaped storms. So again, like new stuff pops up, new details. If you look at some of the glorious detailed imagery that we now have of the storms of Jupiter, I mean, it is a complex system. It is like a crazy swirl of madness there. Sorry. Sorry. I just had to check something off, Mike, because I had a massive musical confusion in my brain when you said Red Spot Junior. I thought I was hearing that to the tune of the theme song of a cartoon I watched as a child called James Bond Junior Red Spot Junior. But then it turned out I went and checked and I wasn't even remembering the theme song right. I think I was hearing the tune of the Transformers theme in my head. But putting James Bond Junior robots in disguise. I don't remember James Bond Junior. Oh, man. I'm glad I could bring you on this journey with me, folks. All right. So back to the Great Red Spot, GRS, if you prefer, is pointed out by Simon et al. In 2018's historical and contemporary trends in the size, drift and color of Jupiter's Great Red Spot published in the astronomical journal. We have roughly 150 years going on 160 now, obviously, worth of recorded observations of the Great Red Spot that we can study. Now they point out that the Great Red Spot is roughly worth of recorded observations of the Great Red Spot that we can study. Now they point out that the measurement accuracy in all of these observations depended greatly on terrestrial atmospheric conditions, the skill of the of the observer and the contrast of the Great Red Spot with its ever moving surroundings. Because as we'll discuss, it's like there's there's coloration changes in there as well. It's not not a consistent color over time, nor a consistent shape and size. Nor a consistent color throughout. Even within the Great Red Spot, you've got like the sort of central redder area and then you've got kind of a white band around the outside of it. And then that's within like the the wider stripes along the latitudinal stripes along Jupiter, which are known as the zones and the darker, more orange or red stripes, which are known as the belts. Yeah. So in this paper, they averaged out reported measurements to better reflect the likely actual conditions in Jupiter's atmosphere. And I'll get to some of their general details here in a second, but we should probably point out some of the things that they highlight here as well about like where our imagery comes from. So some of our most impressive images, of course, of Jupiter come not from Earthbound telescopes and observatories, but from satellites and especially flybyes of the planet, Jupiter, such as 1974's Pioneer 10 and 11. These revealed stark colorization more than detail. Then we had 79's Voyager and Voyager 2. I forget which one became Veager in track since we mentioned it. I don't know which one. Did they both become Veager? I don't know. We all become Veager eventually. They revealed more complex inner working and velocity fields of the storm. And then we have, of course, the Hubble Space Telescope, Galileo, Cassini, New Horizons and Juno. And these have all helped to produce just a robust monitoring record of Jupiter and Jupiter's great red spot. Certainly, among other things, confirming its continual evolution, that it is a thing that is continually changing. Now, at the time of this study, they pointed to these general trends and stats. You can get into a great deal of detail here. We'll get into more detail as we get into this episode. But they do state that, yeah, it is in fact shrinking, though it's too large and too complex a system for us to really leave it at that and do it justice. There's a great deal of information about how its longitudinal length has continued to decrease, as has its latitudinal width. While there's also been an observable increase in its westward drift rate, internal velocities have increased on the east-west edges and decreased on the north and south. So it's become a rounder over time. But again, it's like our mind, it's so big. We'll get into even more detail. I mean, Jupiter is enormous. This storm is enormous and it is also incredibly complex. So you can't, again, you can't just talk about its color. It has multiple colors in it. And maybe those colors, when seen from a great distance or rendered in just a certain way, takes on a certain feeling of red or orange or sort of a rusty brown. But yeah, it's one of those things that we want to be able to categorize it as more of a single entity when I mean, it is, but it is again, it's a great storm. It's not, it's not a it's not like even a planet itself we can sort of look to as a conceivable whole and we have just a different system going on here. Well, much like a storm on earth, I mean, we identify it as a thing, a coherent mass. But of course, it is a pattern within fluids, within masses of fluids. And so there are fluids that are constantly flowing in and flowing out from it. Yeah, yeah. You get into questions like, well, there's a hurricane. What is it made of? Well, it's yes, it's it's made of raindrops on one level, but there's a lot more to the answer. You could say it's made of energy. Yeah, yeah. I don't have to think about that. But we want to be able to answer the question with the succinct. Oh, it's made of X, you know. So this study also points out that you have changing size and internal wind speed. It's that have been observable from 79 through 2017. Again, keeping in mind the publication date of this paper. And this seemed to result in decreased internal circulation within the spot. Intensity of the storm and resulting darkness, lightness in places has also shifted. And again, I've seen this characterized as a general darkening. But I think that what you see discussed in more in-depth papers like this indicates something far more complex with color, coloration and brightness, depending on the exact composition and intensities within the storm system. Now, again, we absolutely don't know how long the storm will ultimately last. Again, it's an extremely temporary condition in the lifespan of a planet, but long lasting within the context of human lives, human observation and in comparison to terrestrial storms. That being said, more commentators these days seem to favor a longer continued lifespan for the storm unless I noticed at least one paper pointing out, unless something really cataclysmic occurs. I wonder what they got in mind for that. What, like an asteroid hitting it or something? Well, this got me thinking. I was like, well, what would it take? So this is and it does get rather fascinating because, first of all, Jupiter does take a lot of hits. And and some of these hits have been like pretty brutal. It's pointed out in a 2019 NASA article by Carl B. Hilly from July 16th through July 22nd in 1994. Enormous fragments of the Shoemaker-Levy 9 comet crashed into Jupiter over the course of several days. And it just been discovered a year prior, quote, creating huge dark scars in the planet's atmosphere and lofting super heated plumes into its stratosphere. Yeah. And you can look up images of this. I included a couple for us here, Joe. Yeah, like it basically looks like the planet's lower hemisphere was hit with celestial buckshot. Yes. Yeah. It has wounds in there. Strangely kind of scattered almost along a line. Yeah. You see? Yeah. Yeah. And the interesting thing is that, first of all, these scars persisted for months and were reported to be and certainly you can look at the images and see this for yourself. They're more noticeable than the great red spot during this time. So this was definitely a period. And, you know, I was in school at the time. I don't remember anyone making a point out of this. But like Jupiter definitely looked different as long as these scars were hanging out. And, you know, we didn't freak out about updating the illustrations or anything. But these were big hits. These were the sorts of things that if these fragments had hit the earth, we'd be talking about an extinction event. Yeah. And observation of these impacts I was reading at the time, helped fuel efforts to better protect potential space collisions involving the earth, you know, certainly, you know, driving home that collisions like this still do occur in our solar system. And it's not unthinkable that they could occur to our planet. And therefore, maybe we need to keep a better eye on what's out there. Well, fortunately, we're a smaller target, both in terms of size and gravitational attraction. Yeah. Jupiter is the broad side of a barn here. Yeah. He respects. But doesn't mean we shouldn't be vigilant. Yeah. I think as we've discussed in the show before, like we need to have an idea of what's out there and and all these efforts to track them and coordinate and to possibly redirect anything that's incoming. Vitally important to everything we're doing on the planet for good or ill. Yeah. And a plan of what to do. A well researched plan. Yes. So these these fragments that hit hit Jupiter, they didn't directly impact the red spot. We can if you look at some of these images and you can look at one up here, Joe, you can you can still see the much fainter spot in the this July 1st, 1994 image that I've included for you to the right. And even if the the red spot took a direct hit, it seems like there's plenty of reason to assume that such a large storm system would maybe be slightly temporarily altered, but otherwise would remain. So we should remember that in addition to being historically larger than the earth in its diameter and its footprint, the storm is also quite deep. And again, is an energetic system. Now, how deep fairly recent recordings give us estimates on this. According to a 2021 Weisman Institute of Science and NASA collaboration, the great red spot likely extends to a depth of about 500 kilometers or 311 miles below the planet's clouds. And you can compare that to the storms diameter of roughly 10,250 miles or 16,350 kilometers. So what kind of cataclysm would it take to like erase the big red spot? It seems like it would need to be a cataclysm on the sort of scale that would threaten Jupiter itself, like a collision with a planet or a close passage to a massive star. And of course, in either scenario, the loss of the red spot will be the least of our worries here on earth. All right, now, Rob, you asked me to look a little bit more into the nature of the storm. We've said several times now that the great red spot is a storm. But what kind of storm is it? Like what's going on there? So I looked into this. The great red spot is in the words of the authors of a paper I think you mentioned earlier, Rob, and we may come back to in the next part of the series, one by Sanchez Lavega et al. from 2024. The great red spot is a giant anti cyclone vortex. Now, that will make more sense if we break it up into its parts. Normally, when we're talking about weather, a vortex is a rotating or revolving mass of air. So when air begins flowing in a spiral around a central axis, so a tornado is a type of vortex, a hurricane is a vortex, a polar vortex is a vortex. Vortex has the same meaning on Jupiter that it does on earth. But of course, because we're on Jupiter, it's not rotating air. It is the atmospheric gases found on the planet, which are mostly hydrogen and helium with some other things mixed in there as well, methane, ammonia and things like that. So that's vortex. What about the anti cyclone bit? Anti cyclone refers to the structure of the vortex and anti cyclone is easier to understand in contrast with its opposite, which, as you might guess, is the cyclone. Cyclone has a circulation pattern where the wind flows counterclockwise in the northern hemisphere and clockwise in the southern hemisphere. An anti cyclone is the opposite north of the equator. An anti cyclone spins clockwise south of the equator, counterclockwise. Now, from that distinction, you might assume that cyclones and anti cyclones are essentially just mirror images of each other, kind of like a wind that blows from the east versus the wind that blows from the west is going to be about the same as just what direction it's going, but that's not the case at all. On earth, cyclones and anti cyclones tend to have extremely different characteristics as weather. There are some exceptions, but generally an anti cyclone is going to mean clear skies, calm, dry weather on the ground, really just not much to notice. So often an anti cyclone doesn't even really register to us as weather. It's just like, oh, it's nice and clear out, clear skies, it's dry. It's great, great, nice weather. Meanwhile, cyclones include stormy patterns like hurricanes and typhoons. Those are both examples of a tropical cyclone. These bring clouds, high winds and rain. So what makes the difference? Why would the direction of rotation of a mass of air feel so different on the ground? Well, a major factor determining whether a cyclone or an anti cyclone pattern forms in a mass of air is pressure. So an anti cyclone forms around a region of relatively high atmospheric pressure and high pressure air is dense and it wants to sink. So with an anti cyclone, you've got dry, cool air from higher up in the atmosphere that converges near the center of the pattern and then it falls down toward the earth because of the high pressure it wants to sink and then it diverges outward from the center at the bottom. So this is not exactly right, but just you can roughly kind of imagine a whirlpool sucking cool, dry air from way up high in the atmosphere and then funneling it down to the ground where it then kind of spreads out gently over the surface. Meanwhile, a cyclone is formed around a region of low atmospheric pressure. It's the opposite. In a low pressure region, warm, moist air near the surface begins to rise up. And this causes more warm, moist air to flow in from all around near the surface to take its place. This is sometimes described as convergence at the surface, meaning the surface of the earth, like the ground or the surface of the sea. So it's flowing to the middle around the ground. And the air flowing to the middle from the bottom is again in contrast to the anti cyclone where the air flows to the middle from the top. The low pressure and the convergence at the surface, these tend to result in cloud formation, rain and high winds. So why do these patterns have opposite rotation in the northern and southern hemispheres? This is because of the Coriolis effect. We've talked about this on the show before, but just to briefly refresh, it's an apparent force that manifests because it is not only the air that is moving over the surface of the earth. It's not like the surface of the earth is actually stationary and the air is moving around the surface of the earth is moving to the earth is rotating. And so the earth rotates counterclockwise. If you're looking down at it from the north pole, it rotates clockwise. If you're viewing from the south pole and as a result, objects moving in the atmosphere within the rotating reference frame of the earth will appear to have their path deflected because the earth itself is moving and it will appear to be deflected to the right in the northern hemisphere and to the left in the southern hemisphere. And that creates these different patterns. That's why it's different on the different sides of the equator. By the way, the Coriolis effect, it only manifests on large scales. The idea that it determines which way the water flows down the drain in the sink, that is a misconception that's apparently based more on things like the shape of the sink and how you pour the water. You see Coriolis forces popping up in like big movements of masses, like weather and ocean currents and stuff like that. The Simpsons taught us wrong on this one. They did, yes. A rare miss for them. The Simpsons often, they get the math and science right usually. If you're not familiar with what we're talking about, I don't remember the season, but they travel to Australia. Yes. Where the US Embassy has a toilet, like a high tech toilet that's been specially designed to force a northern hemisphere directional flush effect as opposed to a southern hemisphere flush, which again, as we're making clear here, is not a thing. Right. To make it flow the right way. But anyway, back to the storms here. So again, cyclones form the basis of most storms and bad weather on Earth. I mentioned there were some exceptions. There are some occasional large anti cyclone storms that conform for various reasons, but that's more rare on Earth. Most of your big storms are cyclones, tropical cyclones like hurricanes and typhoons form over low pressure regions in the ocean north and south of the equator. So they form these massive rotating systems where you've got warm, wet air that comes up off of the ocean and it circulates and forms a spiral of thunderstorms with high winds and generally these storms, they build up in energy and intensity and they can travel around and they usually dissipate once the storm either moves onto land or into cooler waters at higher latitudes, robbing the storm of the warm, wet air that that supplies it with energy and keeps it going. So Jupiter's Great Red Spot is an anti cyclone vortex. It is a spiraling storm, but unlike most of these big storms on Earth, it is a high pressure system, not a low pressure system. And it rotates in the anti cyclonic direction counterclockwise in Jupiter's southern hemisphere. So that's the two parts of the description, anti cyclone vortex. But there was a third word, it is a giant anti cyclone vortex. And it is indeed giant. You were already alluding to this, Rob, how big exactly is the storm? It seems currently it is more than 16,000 kilometers wide, which is bigger than the entire planet Earth, as we've said. Earth's diameter is something like 12,750 kilometers. The Red Storm is more than 16,000. And I also just want to briefly compare this to the biggest storms in the historical record on Earth. The largest storm ever recorded, this doesn't mean necessarily the largest storm ever to occur, but the biggest one we ever measured was Typhoon Tip, a tropical cyclone that formed in the Western Pacific in October 1979. Tip was huge with a peak diameter of more than 2,200 kilometers. A common comparison people make is that if you laid the storm out over the eastern United States, the edges of the storm would reach from Texas to New England. It's just gigantic by Earth's standards. But of course, the Great Red Spot is not only a lot bigger than that storm, it's bigger than the whole planet. So and and it is not even currently at its maximum size. As you were talking about, Rob, you know, when it was first observed, the diameter of the spot was estimated to be almost 50,000 kilometers, so which is more than three times the width of Earth, I think actually almost four times the diameter of Earth. And so again, contained in that fact about the change over time is the implication that the Great Red Spot fluctuates greatly in terms of size and structure. Another thing is the contrast in intensity with the the biggest storms we know about on Earth. In Typhoon Tip, the wind gusts reached more than 300 kilometers per hour, which is absolutely crazy. That is really, really high wind. But the Great Red Spot storm is even more intense. I've read different numbers here for the wind speeds. I'm not sure, but I wonder if any discrepancies in the accounting might have to do with the fact that there's no solid surface below to measure the winds against, I don't know if it has to do with the fact that it's fluid on fluid. But anyway, I was looking for a good source on this and I used a fact page from NASA's Juno mission, which was focused on Jupiter's atmosphere, among other things. So that seems to be a good authority. And they peg the range of wind speeds within the Great Red Spot at 430 to 680 kilometers per hour or 270 to 425 miles per hour. That would be within the outer reaches where the winds are the most intense. In any case, way, way more powerful than the most powerful cyclone ever recorded in history on Earth. Yeah, I mean, it's just an absolute monster on a scale that staggers the imagination, challenges the imagination. And it's and it's a planet that is again, it's a gas giant as we've been been driving home. There is no hard surface. Like it's we we can't even picture ourselves in the midst of it. Like we have an easier time picturing ourselves, of course, on the surface of something like Venus, which in and of itself is a completely alien and inhospitable environment. Yeah. But would kill you, but there's something to stand on. At least something to stand and crumble. Here, it's just it's how it's a stupider baby. But so, yes, the the red spot of Jupiter is a giant high pressure storm in contrast to most of Earth's low pressure storms in the atmosphere of Jupiter, Southern Hemisphere swirling in the anti-cyclonic direction. But there are a bunch of interesting questions that remain, some of which we have fairly good ideas of how to answer, some of which are much more mysterious. And there are only some kind of educated guesses, questions like the one you raised, how long is it going to be around? One question that's interesting is how does this storm persist for so long over time? Storms on Earth don't last that long. And also the question of how did it form in the first place? So I think we should come back and do a part two on the great red spot, Rob. Yeah, yeah, get into why this color. You might think it's the jelly filling of the planet, but that's that's inaccurate. If you've read that somewhere, that's that's a lie. And we'll we'll look at more plausible answers to that question in the next episode. In the meantime, since we have several days before that episode will come out, we would love to hear from you if you have, especially I'm interested, for examples, from various science fiction films where Jupiter pops up in the background, or at least the red storm is acknowledged. And then I want to know what year that is supposed to take place and how we might therefore couch that in our very vague and shifting understanding of how long the storm has lasted and how long it will last. Just a reminder to everyone out there that stuff to blow your mind is primarily a science and culture podcast with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays, short form episodes on Wednesdays. And on Fridays, we set aside most serious concerns to just talk about a weird film on Weird House Cinema. If you want to follow us online, well, we have different social media accounts. You can follow the podcast wherever you get your podcasts and on Instagram, we're S2BWyand podcast. So if you use that, you can find us there. Huge thanks, as always, to our excellent audio producer, J.J. Pawsway. If you would like to get in touch with us with feedback on this episode or any other to suggest a topic for the future or just to say hello, you can email us at contact.stufftoblowyourmind.com. Stuff to blow your mind is production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app. Apple podcasts are wherever you listen to your favorite shows. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.