142 | Josh Beaumont Talks Navigating Career Transitions From Pro Sports to Sports Science

This is becoming undone. I think for me it was when I left professional sports. I knew the writing was on the wall, just based on, you know, it got feeling. And when I got in there, when Lassi really was on the ground floor. Right, there was 12 teams and the league was growing and I was like, oh my god, I'm going to be here for the next 30 years of my life. I love soccer. I was a college soccer player in addition to La Crosse. And as I look back on it, you hit a key word that, the identity. And I felt like my identity was my professional job. So here all of a sudden I am. I'm out of work. But all of a sudden my identity has completely changed because I was unable to separate the two. I was fortunate I wasn't out long, but it was still this massive pitted it and a lot of bitterness. My name is Josh Palma and I am undone. Hey friend, I'm glad you're here. Welcome to another episode of Becoming Undone, the podcast for those who dare bravely, risk mildly and grow relentlessly. I'm your host Toby Brooks, I'm a speaker, author, professor and performance scientist who spent the better part of the last two decades working across professional, collegiate and high school sports as an athletic trainer and a strength coach. Over time I've become deeply curious about what makes high achievers tick, especially how moments of failure, even the gut punch kind, can become the exact spark we need to move forward. This show is where I explore that journey. Every week I sit down with a new guest to unpack how the most powerful breakthroughs often come after things fall apart. And just a quick note, while I proudly serve at Baylor University, this podcast is completely separate from that work. It's a personal project where I take what I've lived, what I've studied and what I'm still learning and offered up to anyone hungry to grow. Let's get into it. This week I'm doing my best to just stay the course. Sixteen weeks of semester are always a grind both for professors and for students. Considering I'm both at the moment, I am ready for fall 2025 to be in the rear view. I'm doing my best to finish strong at the front of the classroom and my organ admin class as it wraps up. And I'm trying to finish some projects and some finals in the two classes that I'm taking. It is a grind, but I'm convinced that it's worth it. Originally moving into the classroom as a teacher was a hard move for me. It took me more than once to leave full-time clinical practice as an athletic trainer, and there's something about just being a part of a team, a real live uniform and road trips team. Practices and team banquets, time in the locker room, in the training room, a team that's just impossible to replace. Through teaching I get to experience that indirectly. But even today there are moments when I just missed that connection. If I'm honest it was in those moments of ambition and aspiration, turning to guilt and shame, where this work was born. I just couldn't understand how I would ever be able to replace the joy that I got from helping my athletes be their best. But at the same time I also couldn't see a future with the brutal hours, the low respect and the barely livable pay. It was a dark and lonely season, and I'd venture a guess that today's guest went through much the same. And like me, he's come through on the other side better for this struggle. So what happens when your dream job turns into a walking nightmare? In the title, the paycheck and the prestige still leave you empty. In this week's episode of Becoming Undone, I sit down with Dr. Josh Beaumont, a former competitive soccer player and former pro soccer athletic trainer, turned sports scientist. To unpack what it really means to walk away from the thing you thought you always wanted, Josh shares his raw journey through identity loss, the high stakes world of pro sports, and how the quiet courage to pivot opened up a whole new lane. We talk burnout, recovery, data overload, and why sometimes the most powerful performance metric isn't in your spreadsheets, it's in your gut. This one's for anyone standing at the crossroads, wondering if the next step is forward or out. Spoiler alert, sometimes it's both. Let's check out episode 142 with sports scientist and athletic trainer, Dr. Josh Beaumont. Hey greetings and welcome back to another episode of Becoming Undone, the podcast for those who dare bravely risk my lean, grow relentlessly. Join me, your host, Toby Brooks, each week as I invite a new guest so that we can examine how high achievers can transform from pulling apart to falling into place. Joining me this week is a guest that reached out on LinkedIn. I love this. I've been posting a lot of kind of salty stuff on there about AT and about how there's this mass exodus going on. Dr. Josh Beaumont's joining us. Josh, thanks so much for joining me tonight. That was my pleasure. Thanks for having me on. Yeah, I think your story will resonate with a lot of my former students who are in that space in college athletics and it's like your dreams come true and you start to realize that maybe you need different dreams can be a lonely space to navigate figuring out like I finally got where I thought I wanted to be and whether it's money or hours or whatever. It's not. You kind of pivoted into sports science which is an emerging area. We'll talk about that. I always like to start at the beginning. If someone only knew the polished outward facing version of your journey, what's maybe one messy or misunderstood hard-earned part of your story that they'd be surprised to learn? Oh, that's a great question. Messier hard-earned. I would say the reality check the post-war sketchy. People that have spent time in there, it's always whatever you've done for me lately. Certainly felt that during my time in Pro Soccer, I had forehead coaches, three general managers, three presidents within a five and a half year window and even though the team had success, it was all four of the playoff teams in that team's history were during my tenure. It was still every all season nerve-wracking and what have you done for me lately? And some like politics and life-planned at that. Sure. I think that can certainly weigh on especially a young professional that's not only trying to navigate the politics of it but also figuring out who you are as a professional. The title of this show is becoming undone and we spend a lot of time talking about how things oftentimes need to fall apart before they can fall into place. Tell me about a time when everything you thought you knew whether it's about work or your identity or your direction. You mentioned before that you're a former athlete. Tell me about a time when that fell apart, when it came undone and how did you rebuild? I think for me it was when I left professional sports. I knew the writing was on the wall just based on what it got feeling. When I got in there, I really was on the ground floor. There were 12 teams and the league was growing. I was like, oh my God, I'm going to be here for the next 30 years of my life. I love soccer. I was a college soccer player in addition to LaCrosse. As I look back on it, you hit a key word that the identity. I felt like my identity was my professional job. Here all of a sudden I am. I'm out of work very briefly. I can talk about that in a second. All of a sudden my identity has completely changed because I was unable to separate the two. I was fortunate, literally the next day, the US soccer called me up and said, hey, you're available. We got stuff for you. You know, our team, you know, a lot of our staff. Let's bring in and put you to work. I was fortunate. It wasn't out long, but it was still this massive pit of it and a lot of bitterness in the way I went down the timing. There was some certainly undercuttings and untruths that happened at that level. It was definitely a bit of an earning experience that way. Yeah. I think that's certainly true for a lot of the students that I've counseled or who've reached out to me who navigate that transition. Even from setting to setting, even from job to job within setting, there's just a lot of, it seems like there's guilt and shame kind of baked right in for us for some reason. We're used to working behind the scenes. And if you put yourself first, then somehow that feels toxic or counter to who we've cultivated ourselves to be. Talk to me a little bit about that and about kind of the psychological process of making that jump. I think when I was younger, it was a little easier to, again, because my identity was tied in. I mean, I got married on an off day. I had my first born and then God, I was literally at the game the next night. So 24 hours later, I'm at a gate working while my life is in the hospital. And probably, of course, I went back afterwards, but it is very, very difficult to dissociate and put others first and even time off. I mean, I don't, I mean, I remember getting grief for being sick one day. I'm like, dude, like, I know there's no other assistant, but I mean, do you want me to spread the germs everywhere? Like, there's not much I can do. I mean, I'm in bed and not feeling so well. So, you know, I think some of that's changed a little bit culturally across, you know, sports and school and, you know, I think we're probably both old enough where you probably got a gold store if you made 100% attendance in elementary school. And, you know, I think those days are long gone. Yeah. I mean, I'm just a little bit more mature, immersed in performance science, which, you know, I've said this to my students for it. If that would have existed when I first majored in athletic training, I never would have majored in athletic training. The sports scientist in me would have been so enamored with that. And that's not the dunk on AT. It's just it aligns with me. How do you personally navigate the tension between peak performance in your athlete and rest and recovery and burnout? I mean, it's kind of related to what we're talking about for yourself, but in your athletes, how do you do that? That's another great question. You know, for me, I've always been in the high performance, probably perhaps because I was an ex-athlete. You know, I had a colleague who was a head AT at a major division once school. And he's always said, you know, the performance is really where the money is going to be and the pace is going to be. And I think you've kind of seen that evolution every so often. You see, you know, how much performance coaches at the college level versus the head AT's are making it various institutions and generally performance drives that. But for me, I've always felt like they'd go hand in hand. You know, whenever it's good for the health is good for performance. And that's how I approached a lot of what I did. I loved when my team's conditioned. I was in the year like sometimes I've always tried to coach the same. Do more, please do more because I knew at the back end that it would help them long term. It's kind of that acute burst chronic, right? A little more acute risk and a little less chronic risk. I love this sentiment here, especially on the heels of what Josh talked about in his own life. You heard him say it. His world was completely unbalanced. Got married on an off day back to work the next, back to work the day after his oldest was born. I completely relate. I got married on a Saturday afternoon and was at work first thing Monday morning. I too worked the day after our oldest was born. Somewhere along the way that competitor's mindset of if a little is good a lot is better starts to creep in to your mentality too. Back then in an incredibly competitive job market where routinely hundreds would apply for a single pro or D1 job, you had to show that you were willing not just to do the job better but longer and more reliably than the other person. But what I didn't realize then and what I don't think Josh realized was that growth requires resistance but it also requires recovery. Sports scientists now refer to this as the fitness fatigue model. Within it it's the idea that athletic performance is the result not just of working hard. It's the result of two simultaneous and opposing training responses. A positive adaptation that builds fitness and a negative response that triggers fatigue that undermines it. In the gym this means that your plan for no days off and to grind might actually be blunt in your growth. On the job it can mean that you're unknowingly grinding yourself to a pulp toward burnout. Josh points out that even when working as an AT he gravitated toward the performance side of things and indirectly he recognized that whatever is good for health is good for performance. I've heard it said that the more you sweat and peace the less you bleed in war. Preparation isn't just helpful. It's essential. The part of preparation is recovery. It's a fact Josh could recognize in his athletes but he was slower to see it in himself. I'm going to go off a little tangent. Something that a lot of young athletic trainers and strength coaches struggle with and that's where you get the silos. They're so afraid or they have to train athlete injured in the weight room but occasionally someone may get hurt there. But if you have a good performance staff, a good strength and conditioning staff they're going to save you four or five injuries on the back end. You can't focus on that micro. You have to look at the macro. But I was a guy like even when they were running conditioning I'd stand by the finish line. I stood a little bit away as a way so I didn't get the come to the athletic trainer to opt out of my fitness rinse. Right. Yeah, for sure. One thing I've definitely noticed maybe in the past two or three years is how there's been a pivot away from it. A pivot toward recovery agents. So Creadin has long been used as a muscle building agent but if you really think about it it's there to facilitate recovery. Today I see peptides, BPC 157, collagen, some of the commercially available supplements like from few of those kinds of things are more popular I think than they've ever been. And with that, even athletes using their alcohol watch to log their sleep and how much deep sleep did I get? Talk to me a little bit about how recovery is more perhaps more important. I don't want to lead the witness here so to speak. But how does recovery factor into the work you do as a sports scientist versus how you viewed it as an athletic trainer? For me it's always been massive. Certainly soccer was unique in the lake for the season and that was always issued. The knowledge is a spread. Professionals was long time but always the recovery was massive and I remember transitioning so I went college pro national team to college and you know recovery at the national team level was already there. You know we had athletes that had been in Europe. We had athletes from all over. There was always a travel component bringing them in the cap and how do you get them training as high with recovery as much as possible? So when you really see the first evolution of recovery it was this peruvial training loads and they haven't figured it out. You've almost dope or adjusted. We've got, hey we got to watch training loads and then we don't get enough stimulus. And I think my first foray is at the pro level one, guys we get pro days. We had an older midfielder who was 34 years old, 300 games like he needs more recovery than in young kids. So he would get a pro day. And when I needed that college transition and we started getting some heart rate monitors as you mentioned now it's all over the place with Apple Watches, all kinds of devices. You could see how much workload they had and said hey you know maybe for this individual we have to scale it that. So you you seen this really nice evolution and now it really is a focus and it's looking at nutrition, it's looking at the modalities, the peruvial biohacking like every little bit that you can do. And my personal opinion is it's all great but you still have to listen to the athlete. Yeah. And I've always found that to be the best indicator. It's just getting to know as an athletic trainer, even as a sports scientist here on my current role, like getting to know the athletes and today we'll tell you when they're they're out of sorts if you will. Yeah. Yeah, I think there's kind of a metacognition here for some of us where we can see overtraining and even overreaching in our athletes, even in our staff, but we're oblivious to it in ourselves. And I think perhaps your pivot was partially in response to this isn't what I thought it would be in terms of my schedule, in terms of my salary, those kinds of things. When did you first realize that title wasn't enough when you had kind of ascended the ranks and you kind of got where you thought you were going and you didn't feel that satisfaction. Whether it was an athlete, scholar, professional, did you know that you'd need something deeper in order to keep going? Yeah. I think for me, it was after about, you know, I'd started the PhD program and that was kind of in the Nexus, but I don't say this in a way that sounds arrogant, but I was almost I had so much experience and soccer that I felt like I could do the job blindfolded. Like, hey, okay, you got an ankle boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, hey, you got an ankle, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, you're not feeling well, all right, you're going to see Doc, you're going to do this, you're going to do this, you're going to do this, you're going to do this, like, and it was almost, it was almost too easy. And so for me, you know, that was kind of the first Nexus. And then just again, I had always had my fingers in a little bit of everything. So going back to school kind of gave me that opportunity to, you know, have that stimulus again, and not just again, sleepwalk through, through my days. Yeah, that's definitely, it can be an eye-opening, right? An eye-opening experience to realize that you're not being challenged anymore, you're not growing anymore. And sometimes that's a startling thing. For other people, it feels like failure. So what was the moment that you failed? Maybe spectacularly, maybe subtly, and how did that failure set the stage for something even better? Ooh, that is a, I mean, I've already, you know, kind of talked about that transition from, from MLS. I think, I don't know if there was big failures, but just, you know, going through the PhD program and learning that, you know, sometimes failure is part of research and having an overcome the obstacles of, you know, a failed hypothesis, if you will. And, you know, how do you pivot? How do you deal with the challenges within that? Like, when you don't meet, you know, your subject advances or, you know, you can't get down to the lab. Like, that was one of my biggest issues, that, that issue was the X-Fiz lab was downtown. And I worked on main campus. It was about a 30 minute train ride back and forth. And if you're trying to, you know, get into the lab, just for some of those moments, like, it was, for me, I guess that, that was probably a little bit of the failures. Like, how do I promise this? And, and, and overcome it and still get the necessary components of my PhD program without essentially having to quit my job to get down there. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's valuable to look back and, and kind of deconstruct how, how maybe things could have gone differently. Let's think back to a younger you and you can, you can specify when and where, but think back to a younger version of yourself, worst day. Knowing what you know now with the experiences, with the life that you've had, who would you go back to younger you? And what would you tell them? You play a little more nice in the sandbox. I think that was, that was hard for me. Minesco's kid, I grew up outside Philadelphia and, you know, we have a certain reputation and, and we are the city of brotherly love, but we have very sharp tongues. We're, we like to give a hard time with my, I used to tell my athletes, it's a, I still even tell my son's team that I coach. I said, if I'm not giving you a hard time, then you got to worry. Yeah. I'm not talking to you. I think just probably not being so brash and toning it down a little bit, because I think a lot of people took that as, as cockiness and, you know, I, I'm actually not that cocky. I'm, at times, very insecure about my knowledge and, especially with the career path that I've taken where it's been a little bit of everything. I'm not, you know, an expert in, you know, O2 kinematics or a certain type of exercise testing. But that everything. So, you know, letting that insecurity show through and recognize that, hey, you know, I'm a jack of all trades in some ways, but not, you know, a specific expert, expert in one. Yeah. I think that's well said. I talked with my students a lot about how much the profession of athletic training and two certain extent sports science has changed over this span of my career. And, and I know early on, there was just a horrible lack of data. You know, you're, you're making decisions on your gut. Like it, this guy is performing better. Like I've got a stopwatch. Maybe I've got a vertical leap and that's kind of it. And maybe a tape measure to measure, you know, single leg hops and things like that. Today, it's almost the opposite. We've got so much data. We've got so many tools. And you're working at the intersection there between science and human potential. You know, whether it's catapult data or VBT stuff, you know, bar speed, that kind of thing. What role would you say your beliefs and your purpose play and peak performance versus kind of the data, the science, the quantitative side of it? I think it's the classic art versus science aspect of it, right? For us here, we do like athlete testing, like we'll get a lead athlete. So when we get NBA guys that are going to end up in the Hall of Fame or playing all story games, we get kids that are getting ready for graph combine. And we'll put them through all these tests. It's very robust. Like I'll have my section, strike coaches will have theirs. We have an embedded physical therapy department, right? And if it's so and maybe doesn't understand the biodex, the first time they could have a bad set. And if you are so rigid in your thought process, you'd be like, oh, he needs to do X, Y, Z on his quad because it's like right quad is, you know, 15% of them is left. Well, it could be a little bit of a takeoff like you could have an injury. You know, you can't just be so myopic. And then for us, what we've really found really, I think, distinguishes us and leverages, you know, the proactive sports performance overall method is we're looking for actionable patterns. And that's where the science is. So I'll see something. I'll talk to our strength coaches. And I'll talk to our physical therapist and say, hey, this is what I saw in the lab. And did you see this on your test? Yeah, you know what? He hifts, he shifts to the right on his double leg squats and the single leg squats. He drops in the balance position. That is worth repeating. We're not just chasing outliers or cherry picking success stories. We're looking for actionable patterns, reliable trends, a consistent stream of data pointing to a deeper truth. This is true in high performance sport, but it's also true in life. Thanks to tools like Functional MRI, we can now observe in real time how different types of motivation, encouragement, feedback, light up specific areas of the brain. It shows us exactly where neural activity tied to engagement or performance is occurring. These regions of the brain don't lie. When we do it right, they activate. When we do it wrong, they stay quiet. Back in the day, we used to guess it was rooted in our best informed judgment, but it was still just a guess. Today, we can know. Emerging research in neuroscience and data science both are making it clearer than ever. If you want to grow to perform to show up as your best, you need more than just hustle. You need strategy, insight, and self-awareness rooted in evidence. One of my favorite sayings is that if it matters, we should measure it. What Josh is pointing out here is supported by that science, and it's as true for Hall of Famebound athletes as it is for us. If we're looking to make lasting changes, we identify those actionable patterns first. Then, it's just a matter of relentless execution. We tend to find patterns, and I'd always like to say that we're data guiding, not data deciding. I like that. I think that's important. It's kind of pretty John and I was talking to a soccer player a couple of weeks ago, and their team is so sad on substitution patterns based on numbers. The coach, I'm like, what about the tactical component of the game? If you're going to stop it, let's make a sub. I made some of this person with a 65th minute, but what if it's a slow game? What if it's a fast game? What if your team is playing great, you're down a goal, and it's not the right time to sub. You've seen this to your point, this evolution, where we are so fixated on data that we can't make decisions that are right in front of us. Yeah. I think for a young professional, that can be a really daunting space to be. It reminds me of when you're working on a PhD, and if you don't narrow that research question adequately, then you're just drowning in data that doesn't help you make an informed decision. I think for a lot of our young professionals, maybe they weren't even involved in the decision-making process. We're going to use catapult because XYZ University in our conference uses it, and there's kind of an arms race going on where you have to have this, and you might not even know what to do with it if you have the best of the best system. No, 100%. You see so many different metrics that are pulled out. You have to, I think you're that peruba, what is your why? What is your question that's so important? But I think you've also seen, I'm going to kind of tail back to something you said a little bit that I think is important. It may not relate to how far the training is, but I've talked to those in the sports science professor world, and they're saying, we get kids that can build these great databases, and they can sit there and say, well, he's down 20% on his jumps over the last four days, and that's outside this standard deviation. If you look at this graph, it's bright red. Okay, how do we fix that? How about these bright red? How do we fix it? We're seeing some of this evolution of sports science where you have data science, sports science, the clinical application of it, and it's just churning under this singular name, and I think that's why, depending on where that person's background, they have a strengthening backlight. It's a athletic training background. They have a computer science background, and it's really hard when you look at some of these jobs that are out there, and you're like, oh my God, you're really point three specialties into one and hoping it sticks, and almost setting people up to fail in some ways. I mean, I even know my position was a little bit like that. When I got here and talked to them, I was just fortunate to have, kind of like I said earlier, that athletic training and sports science background that most don't have, because I got to deal with the physical therapist. I got to deal with the strength coaches, but we also do metabolic testing and biomechanical testing. If you look, usually those are two different programs within either a master's or a PhD or an undergrad program. I think you're seeing some of this convolution that's really, in some ways, sending people up to fail, and it's unfortunate. Yeah, I think you're right. Again, talking with Dr. Josh Beaumont. He's an exercise physiologist and sports scientist, has a history in professional and collegiate sports. And I think probably what connected us was, you saw some posts where I was kind of lamenting on behalf of my students who, you know, they can't post those things because they're still in those jobs, and they would die if they're AD, saw them being honest. Talk to me a little bit about what advice you would give for that young professional, who's maybe in that job and struggling with whether or not they should stick it out, whether or not that's what's for them. I mean, you navigated that and came out on the other side of it. What advice would you give to a young professional who's maybe in that space themselves? I think there's two points. I think there's a true period of self-reflection, right? It's easy to sit and complain, but you have to look and say, in within yourself, am I doing what I need to do? Am I taking care of myself? Am I even going to have that opportunity to do that? And that may answer the question for yourself. But also, you've got to have a plan to exit, you know, and I think if you're going to make that pivot, you really have to sit down and say, okay, this is my plan. This is how I'm going to execute it. This is the time frame. I mean, go for it. This idea is specific to athletic training and pro sports, but it's also generalizable to so many other areas. As the emotion and the overwhelm of the moment can convince us that our best next move is bold, definitive action. You may be tempted to walk out the door on a specially hard day and never return. You may be tempted to tell that boss how you really feel. But trust me on this one. Wait. Being strategic in purpose means not moving before we develop a plan and then not quitting until we execute on the plan. For Josh, that meant going back to school and pivoting to an adjacent career path. For me, it meant a move to a new university in a dramatically different role. And it's meant more than one additional degree. For you, it may mean subtle changes or massive action. But the common thread is that when you're facing down your own purpose storm, you owe it to yourself and those you love to be purposeful rather than emotional. And if you focus more on the execution of the lay ahead rather than the exit that lay behind. And if you can set that fear aside and plot your course with a rational objective, you can minimize the unnecessary risk. Because at the end of the day, there used to be a time where if you were out of athletic training, it was always harder to go back to the level. If you... I feel bad saying this because some values high school athletic trainers less and I certainly don't want to do that. But it's a lot easier to go from pros to college, college to high school than the other way to wrap and make a jump from high school to college to pros. Having been on some of the hiring committees for those roles. And so I think a lot of people are afraid, but athletic trainings changed enough. There's enough jobs right now. There's better pay in some ways that I think you can take a risk. Whereas if I walked away from athletic training 15 years ago, it would have been really hard to get back in other than a clinic job or having to know someone who was a past friend, a past colleague or whatnot. Right. Yeah, there's definitely a stigma that hopefully has gone away. And maybe it's just a reflection of the market economy and the fact that places are finding much more difficulty in filling roles. And so they maybe can't be as choosy. All right, we're going to wrap this one up fairly close to the end here. I want to ask of all my guests, I love music and the emotions that it can frequently represent. What song would you pick to play in the background if we were to watch a montage of your life? And why? Oh, montage. Well, my favorite song is Kit Kuddy, pursue the happiness, D.B. The Okie remix. I guess that probably fits with the podcast, but it's also one that just, it's uplifting. It just motivates the B, especially the remix. It's about getting after it or I don't know. Sometimes I feel like dancing with myself, but Billy I don't. I like it. Because you find yourself just in those moments, especially as an athletic trainer, sometimes you have assistance and things like that. But you find yourself just in the middle of that training room and like, all right, here I am. Just going. Yeah, especially this time of year. I don't know about you, but I definitely have some PTSD from Fall Camp, experiences back in the day. All right. Well, last one promise. That's all good. Yeah, what's the Dr. Josh Beaumont remains undone? I think for me, I can't answer that because I'm really waiting to see how AI plays out over the next five, 10 years. It's going to be, that's the undone component of this, that nest level of AI and how it affects our data analysis. And, you know, does it enhance what we do? Does it limit what we do? Does it, how much does it change? To the point, if AI's been out formula, listen to you, you know, a kid shouldn't practice or a kid's ready to train and you don't think he is, you know, are you still going to listen to the AI or are you going to go with your gut? So I think for me, the undone is really this continued evolution of sports science and how AI is going to intersect. I love it. I think that's definitely the bleeding edge. And, you know, here I am with a podcast and 10 years ago, I didn't know what one was. So I love the continuous growth and looking for ways to incorporate the latest technology. All right. Well, if listeners want to connect with you, give me some links I can throw in the descriptions there. Where can people find you? I am a little bit older so the social media is not super big. I am on LinkedIn. The website for our facility is proactive, sp.com. So there's some blurbs on there about staff and the lab and what we do here. Email is JoshuaB at herblife.com so they can reach out to the email as well. Cool. My name is Josh Palma and I am undone. Awesome. If you're out there listening and feel like the path you're on no longer fits who you are, let this episode be your sign. Okay, it changed direction. Reinvention is not just retreat, it's strategy. You're not weak for walking away, but you can be brave for choosing what's next. I'm thankful to Josh for dropping in and I hope you enjoyed our conversation. For more info on today's episode, be sure to check it out on the web. Simply go to undonepodcast.com, backslash EP142 to see the notes, links and images related to today's cast, Dr. Josh Palma. I know there are great stories out there to be told and I'm always on a lookout so if you or someone you know has a story we can all be inspired by, tell me about it. Again, go to undonepodcast.com, click that contact tab in the top menu and drop me a note. Coming up on the show, I've got another former pro soccer athletic trainer Morgan D.Trey drops in. She bravely shares her powerful story of recovery and redemption and her fight with alcohol addiction. Then I've got former University of Illinois women's gymnastics head coach Natalie Walsh who shares how her transition out of division 1 sports has allowed her to walk more fully in her calling as a consultant and a professional coach. Then, I'm also stoked to share my conversation with the incomparable Marissa Nelson, who story began in rural North Dakota and how she transitioned from a teen mom and a single wide to now owner and CEO of multiple multi-million dollar businesses. This and more coming up on Becoming Undone. And hey, if you're looking to go deeper, check out my brand new website, Thrilled about this, it's finally up to Webrook's PhD dot com. It's your hub for resources, speaking info, one on one coaching opportunities. I would love for you to check it out. Love you to sign up for my newsletter and connect. And speaking of coaching, I'm also stoked to announce the launch of my all new all personalized all for you coaching app at scienceofthecomeback.com. It will launch next week and I'll have a special introductory price just for you, my faithful listener. I built it from the ground up specifically for those ready to turn their pain into purpose and take real steps toward a comeback. I can't wait to share more. Becoming Undone is an IEEE production written and produced by me, Toby Brooks. Tell a friend about the show, follow along on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn and Becoming Undone pod. And follow me on my new socials handle at Toby Brooks PhD. On Facebook, Instagram, X, LinkedIn and TikTok. Check out my link tree at linktr.ebackslash.com to Webrook's PhD. Listen, subscribe and leave me a review at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcast. Till next time, keep getting better.