MCD Shutters, Audible's Story House, and More of the Week's Book News.

British Gas have this thing. We call it home care. We'll fix all sorts and its unlimited repairs. Expert engineers will solve the upset of boilers not boilering or taps that won't wet. Electric's playing tricks or a pipe that's broke. We're there for everyone. Even blue furry folk. Your home won't feel booby trapped. It'll feel just like new. British Gas taking care of things and looking after you. T-Sensee supply excess options available per repair. Isn't life grande and making it better just got easier with Starbucks new protein cold foam? A little something something to take your favorite drinks up a notch with 15 grams of extra protein. Turn your usual iced caramel latte into a smooth iced caramel protein latte. Add a delicious swirl on top of your drink just like that. Protein never tasted so good with Starbucks new protein cold foam. Subject to availability while stocks last. This is the Book Riot Podcast. I'm Jeff O'Neill. And I'm Rebecca Shinsky. Got a two for free today sort of. We're going to do a regular news segment A. Then in the B side of the show Rebecca we have a guest. We were just talking about this interview we just did. Yes. Kathy Galliano. She is the executive vice president of merchandising from Books a Million. She's been there for almost 20 years and we had a really interesting conversation with her about how the industry has changed. The current trends that they're developing or watching develop how Books a Million spots trends. They were on the manga tip like a year before other mainstream booksellers were and other stuff that's going on. We had some conversation about spreadages and just really interesting to get a chance to talk with someone who's been working in book retail for as long as she has and has seen the industry develop. Like 2007 is before ebooks were widespread and borders still existed. Do you think she has like a notch on her belt? Like there went borders. She was like yeah. There went Hastings. Books a Million especially in the south and midwest. There's not as many on the west coast and in the northeast as they think but like I've spent some time in like a Tulsa Books a Million when I was a kid. Yes. Yeah. They're I mean second largest U.S. retail for books after Barnes and Noble. So there's that right after this show coming up later in the month. We're going to have the April hot list that's going to be next Wednesday and right now over on Zero to Well Read. You can check out us talking about Old Man the Old Man and the sea by one Ernest Hemingway and Rebecca. I think the TLDR for that episode is both what you think it is and totally not right with the old man. Yes. It's kind of weird to say it that way. It was really surprising. It was my first time with Hemingway. I think since high school or at college at least and it was really so much more fun than I expected it to be and much more complex. The man does manage to say a lot with very few words. It was a great discovery. I realized last week we teased for this show's listeners like the next Zero to Well Read is something that you've heard us talk about a ton. We were wrong about the calendar. That one's coming out. We were wrong about the calendar. So as you're listening if you're in the main feed on Monday here tomorrow's show Tuesday on Zero to Well Read will indeed be Gilead by Marilyn Robinson. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes ma'am. And tomorrow we're recording an episode with a friend of the pod who've heard before about another shared favorite. So a lot's coming out over on Zero to Well Read. Go check it out there. Currently in the Patreon feed. Got a lot of nice feedback about our best debut novels of the last 10 years episode that we did for Paypal. It was really fun. It was a really fun episode to do. So people coming there also are we still taking mom dad's request Rebecca? Are we not? We are. Yeah. We're still taking mom's dads and grads request maybe another week. We've got to record that when you're the end of April. So we're doing it in two parts though. The first episode will come out right before Mother's Day. So we will prioritize mom's questions in that first episode and then dads and grads will fill in on the next one. A lot of feedback about books with two authors and I'm not going to shout out any specific one. I'll say this. Every example that I saw and tell me if you understood something differently is in the data camp of neutral at best for two authors and what it does for books, profiles, sales and reputation. Yes. Yeah. Neutral at best. I think we haven't seen any situation where like two authors have combined their powers and it has eclipsed what either of them had done individually, especially like when one of you is V.E. Schwab. I mean, come on. Yeah. I mean, I don't want to say less than the sum of its parts, but I think it might just be there's it's a small data set and most books don't break out. So like, right, you know, maybe we could come up with a list of a couple of dozen even with a listener contributions of things that we know about. That's fewer than 4% of books really really pop. So I think it could be just that we don't have enough examples at the same time. But thank you all for emailing in. Those are all data points that prove the rule rather than what I think most people thought was like, look at this book by two people that most people have forgotten by now or, you know, was kind of a mid middling sort of success. Anyway, so that's that. I think that's all of our housekeeping for the day there. Today's episode is brought to you by 11 Reader. If you listen to audiobooks a lot, the narrator problem can be so real. 74% of audio book listeners have stopped or considered stopping a book because of the narrator's voice. 11 Reader helps by letting you choose from more than 1000 natural sounding voices for any title. You can even design your own narrator. So there are more than 50,000 audiobooks to choose from. There are bestsellers, hidden gyms and guilty pleasures. The catalog spans every genre and you can pick the narrator that fits the story. And you can listen to anything. You can turn your documents, your PDFs, your ebooks into life like audiobooks. This gives you the freedom to upload any text and hear it read in studio quality voices. Your reading list becomes a listening list. There's premium listening at a fair price and plans start lower than audible with no credits to track or expire. And you can of course cancel anytime. So you get three days of premium entirely free try before you commit. It's available on iOS, Android and the web. Just go to book riot.com slash 11 Reader. Again, that's book riot.com slash 11 Reader. And thanks again to 11 Reader for sponsoring this episode. This episode is brought to you by Del Ray, publisher of Enamorada by Ava Reed. Stick around after the show to hear an excerpt from the audiobook edition. Once there was an island where the dead walked the earth and seven noble houses ruled by necromancy until a conqueror's blade brought them low. But Defiant Against the New Order stands the house of teeth and its last living members. Beautiful Morosia and her cousin, the uncanny Lady Agnes. Though she has not spoken in seven years, Agnes carries the house's legacy. She must recapture the secrets of death magic and avenge her family's fall in honor. And so a gruesome new duology begins. This is the first book in a new duology from Ava Reed, author of Lady Macbeth and a study in drowning. If you crave the macabre, body horror and doomed characters, this book is for you. And it will leave your jaw on the floor. You'll be desperate to know what happens in book two. Then stick around after the show to hear an excerpt from the audiobook edition of Enamorada by Ava Reed. Thanks to our sponsors at Del Ray. Today's episode is brought to you by Gungnir, Forged in Myth, publishers of Aeon by Matthew Medney, John Connolly, and Joe Harris. At the last black hole, the universe nears its end. Protons have decayed, neutron stars are gone, and time slips away. Immensely powerful beings gather, building a planet and Citadel to manifest fragments of themselves. In this space, they communicate, confront fate, and decide what remains when existence itself unravels. Aeon is what happens when the last inheritors of a dead civilization discover that legacy isn't about what you leave behind. Rather, it's about who you become when leaving behind is no longer possible. This is a love letter to everyone who ever existed. It was always going to end here. You can visit GungnirBooks.com and sign up to read the first 20 pages of Aeon for free. Again, that's GungnirBooks.com. Sign up, read for free. Make sure to check out Aeon by Matthew Medney, John Connolly, and Joe Harris. And thanks again to Gungnir for sponsoring this episode. Shout out to the millions who does a seasonal spring preview. This is largely, I think, maybe exclusively Sophia Stewart over at the Millions that does this. I've interviewed her about the creation of this. Warmed my literary man's heart to see transcription by Ben Lerner be the top only because I think it was sort of first out of the gate. I have not yet been down to pick it up. I haven't had a chance to put on my Hormren glasses and roll up my jeans a little and put up a flannel and vape on my way down to Powell's. Oh, we're going to add vaping to your repertoire now. I don't know. I need to up my priors of what a middle-aged man does now because a middle-aged man is not smoking pipes in mahogany chairs. I am middle-aged. What are my peers doing? I'm not vaping or really doing any of those things. You're going to pour yourself a cocktail that you make with juice you squeezed yourself. That's what I'm saying. This in my nugget ice machine. Yeah, this is how you live. This is a good way to live. I got my copy of transcription. I haven't read it yet. There's texture in one of the elements on the hardcover which is kind of cool. Yeah. Is it on the phone backing part like the gold? Yeah. Yeah, so both the front and the back covers of the book have sort of the outline of a smartphone because the bit is, you know, the main character goes to interview someone and his phone is dead and he has no way to record the interview that the book is about and the phone feels textured. And I was so surprised. Like, we don't ever get scratch and sniff stuff on literary fiction. No, we don't. You texted me a big profile on Ben Lerner that appeared in New York Magazine. I've not gotten it to it yet. Will transcription by Ben Lerner make the hot list episode? Tune in to find out. But go check out that also. Number two on that list is One Leg on Earth by Pemi Oguda, which we were talking about in a previous episode. So really cool to see. I think there's a lot of seasonal summer previews, monthly previews. I think that millions does and what Sophia Stewart does is really the only lit, thick forward one out there. I can't think of an equivalent one that really died. There's translation. There's smaller press. She does a wonderful job. So go check it out. Yeah. If you are especially like a mainstream literary fiction reader and you're looking to read more from small presses and independent presses, this is a great resource. 140 titles from April, May and June. Plenty of books out there for us all to consider. I guess I was thinking about transcription again this morning. That's what it's my Roman Empire for the next couple of weeks. Right now we're just thinking about Ben. I kind of assume just like once a week you pause and just think about Ben Lerner for a little bit. Do I love you? Do I hate you? Like what are we going to figure this out? But it's an FSG title. And it's that's in the news interestingly today because FSG announced that they are shuddering their MCD imprint. FSG itself is one of the flagship commercial literary titles going back years and years and years. I always pay attention to their list. It's like them and Knopf I think kind of exist in a similar space. And then FSG has a sort of skunk works weirder fiction imprint called MCD or they did Rebecca because word came down today that they are shuddering MCD. Such a bummer. We've shouted out MCD several times in the past for being one of our favorite imprints that does experimental but not too experimental, weird but not too weird. Like those books were a reliable way to expand your literary horizons. They were always doing something interesting. And very sadly the MCD imprint will be shuttered. It's SVP and publisher Sean McDonald will be leaving the company April 15th. You know, lots of changes are going on in publishing but a lot of changes happening at McMillan especially right now. FSG is part of McMillan. So we're really sad personally to see this happen. I don't know that it means anything bigger than businesses make decisions about business things. But I'm really bummed for the literary landscape to see this happen. And I hope that those books and authors find a good new home. I had said that if I had to pick one imprint to read for the rest of my life it might be MCD. Now do I get MCD as part of picking FSG? We'll have to appeal to myself for the judge's ruling on that offhanded comment because that's something that I care about. But this is what I really do. I like to read a meaningful part of my kind of reading just to give some examples. So I talked to Catherine Dunn, I'm sorry, I talked to the editor of Near Flesh, stories by Catherine Dunn for first edition, The Wayfinder, Adam Johnson's new book, and certification you read by Corey Doctro is a book that we talked about. They broke out Ray Naylor, The Mountain in the Sea, Model Home by River Solomon, Hector Tabar, The Barbarian Nurseries I've talked about on the show before, Grief is for People by Sloane Crosley, Dead in Long Beach, California by Vinita Blackburn I've read. I of course have not read all of them, but I don't have to scroll very far down the MCD catalog. She's like, oh there's one I liked, oh there's one I liked, oh there's one I liked. So I if I Survive You by Jonathan Escafri really broke that book out. I really liked that. Colt Classic by Sloane Crosley. Now I'm just naming books which is like fun and representative and also not helpful. I am hopeful that these kinds of books, most of them, many of them will find home at FST. Me too. But they let go their number, the sort of the person who was in charge of this. They've kept some of the staff. I don't know Rebecca, I don't know what to say. I think it's not great news. On the other hand, are you that surprised? This happens from time to time. I don't know. Yeah, it's tempting to get into like big trend pieces and draw some conclusions about what this must mean in the bigger literary landscape. And maybe it does mean some things, but no one is saying that yet. So I'm not ready to come out and make any big conclusions about it, but I will certainly be sad to not see MCD in my catalogs anymore. Yeah, I mean it could be as simple and ruthless isn't the right term, but cut and dry as, you know, some of these books are doing well, but we're they're the ones we thought we could just publish under FSG. And there's a bunch of these that didn't earn out or were a lot of work. And we just we're not as we talk about like publishing as a casino and or as a lottery and that publishers want to like place their bets and buy their tickets and see if they can cash in and you know, take a chance at winning big. It's expensive to take all of those chances and they may just be doing some math about how many chances they can afford to take. And as publishers make those decisions, sometimes fewer books get published. But I certainly share your hope here for most of these books and authors. MCD was a real one. Yeah. And it's not like it's been around since 1941 or something like this. This started in 2017. Like the first book was born, which is Jeff VanderMeers, one of the after the Southern Reach trilogy books came out. I'm trying to see in those early days sat Robert and Sloan had a couple books, not Mr. Penumbra, but a couple of follow ons there. Yeah. So I don't know. I'm not seeing a huge number of giant hits, and they didn't seem to mint franchise and other things that are really paying the bills or giant successes there outside of the mountain and the sea. And again, even that I wonder about Rebecca in McMillan, is that not a tour title better fit? Why is it an MCB? It feels like a tour title to me. Yeah. Probably just had to do with who the editor was at the time and all the sort of behind the scenes things that go into how books landed in prints. But I could totally see that one being a tour. And also that they were doing genre literary stuff 10 years ago. And maybe they're like, you know what, this is just regular imprint stuff now. Like we either put it with genre, we put it with the flat irons or the other kind of commercial and literary titles that go into it now. So maybe the puck of weirdness has come to the skater and they don't need to skate to the puck. Yeah. Yeah, show title. We'll pour one out. How long has it been since we did show titles? Like what person people listen now even get? No, it's been long. Rebecca. Has it been longer than a couple years? I don't know. We've been doing this podcast for so long. That's something where, again, I find AI less and less useful in my own workflows and thinking. But there are some things like, could you just ask it, go look at the archives and scroll far enough to see where the last free reign show title. Yeah, where we used to just take a funny phrase that came out of our mouths in the show. And that was the show title. Back before it really mattered that episode titles told you about what you were going to hear in the episode. So there's that too. You know what imprint came back but is not going to go away is crown because crown has on its hand a bona fide sensation. And luckily James Patterson and Bookshop have deigned to give the correspondent its inaugural debut award because Lord knows the correspondent Virginia Evans needs it, Rebecca. Virginia Evans is having a really good run right now. Not only did she win this inaugural James Patterson and Bookshop.org prize that you just mentioned. She gets 15 grand for that. The prize is awarded by independent booksellers. She also won the adult fiction Indie's Choice Book Award, which was announced earlier this week. They announced all seven of theirs earlier this week. Those are also voted on by independent booksellers. And I had a little like, are we going to have some in future years like coordination or crosstalk? So it's not just the same books winning the Indie's Choice Award and the James Patterson Award, but it's the same voting bodies basically. It's American Booksellers Association members can vote on the Indie's Choice Book Awards to be eligible. Those books have to have been featured in the Indie Next List or the kids Indie Next List. I don't think the parameters are quite as tight on the James Patterson Bookshop. Those could just be nominated by folks. But the correspondent took the prize in both of them. The Lilac People by Milo Todd was the runner up for the James Patterson Bookshop Prize. He also will get $10,000 and then other winners of the Indie's Choice Awards, which are back for the first time this year since 2019. They went on hiatus during COVID. One day, everyone will have always been against this by Omar Elacad was the adult nonfiction. Don't Trust Fish is the kids picture book. Middle grade was Kate Messner's The Trouble with Heroes. The Young Adult Winner is They Bloom at Night by Trang Thanh Tran. The debut adult book, which again, we love it when people give out debut awards. This one went to Black-Owned Revolutionary Life of Black Bookstores by Shar Adams, who we've had on the site before. Really interesting history about how central bookstores have been to the black community and to political movements. And then the debut children's book is called Whale Eyes. So all of those winners also get $2,000. Nice little week, but Virginia Evans, I mean, on an all-timer of her run. Yeah, you know, I'm sort of tongue-in-cheek about that. I don't necessarily mind because I think more people finding about a single book, especially when it's like literary fiction, it's selling well, but it's not romantic, right? So it's not oversaturated like that. The Lilac People by Milo Todd, which is a book if I had seen I had forgotten about, so this is about a trans man in World War II relinquishing freedoms, making like it's historical fiction, World War II with a trans like, yeah, now, now we're, we're just actually will hear us talk with Mary a little bit about, or no, that was after we were recording, I think Rebecca or Kathy, sorry. Oh, did we did we get that part about her own? Yeah, I think she was talking about getting people out of like pretty straight ahead World War II historical fiction and bridging out from that. And this is the kind of book I'd like to see here. Most of the time, we're not going to have a correspondent breakout debut where it feels a little bit like a checker on a checker to give it all the debut fiction awards. So again, it's okay. But it would, I'm glad to see the Lilac People get also in the creative like included a little bit at this time. I think that was clever as well. Yeah, nice to see it. My only complaint about any of this has nothing to do with the awards themselves, but it is April 9th of 2026. And we're still giving out 2025 book awards. Yeah, what are we doing? On the other hand, it's still selling, I don't know. I'd had another data point for you. It's been a while since I looked at the publishers weekly bestseller list, I just dipped into it yesterday to see. And the correspondent is being outsold by Theo of Golden two to one right now, right? Because I'm thinking of them as a package, even the coloring on the book is sort of the same. But like they're both paperback versus hardcover. I think that's part of it too. And I don't I'd love to know if we could A, B test the universe if the correspondent was out in paperback right now or vice versa, the Theo of Golden was out in hardcover, but two to one for Theo of Golden versus the correspondent right now. How about this for you in our age of social media and book talk and tick tock, where sometimes you can pluck something out. Could we give the three years ago best book award? Like right now we can give out the best book award for 2003. Just like whatever it is right now. Sure. Pick it out. Yeah, let's do that. That would be fun. I'd have to go back into my notes for 2023. What was the last debut? The Barry Pickers by Amanda Peters did quite well and not quite as well as this book, but that was a debut that did well, literally well in the literary fiction space recently. Nothing else comes immediately to mind. So yeah, I'm scrolling through books I read out 2023 was the year of the heaven and earth grocery store. But you're talking specifically about debuts. Yeah, I'm just thinking about debuts right like well if we could go back and do it a little bit later to see. I wish I also say this and the moms and dads and grads request the correspondent catch all Swiss army, mother-in-laws, father-in-laws, parents who like to read books. It's going to be a good Swiss army pick. It's going to be so easy. I'm going to have to ration myself. Only 14 mentions of the correspondent. I'll limit myself to that during the. You know, I'm looking as I look back at 2023 now that that's a question that you've posed. One of the debuts that I still hear people talk about and that shows up in comp titles a lot is Big Swiss by Jen Began as a like messy female prototype. I did. Yeah, I thought it was fine. Yeah, I was okay with it. I was well. But a lot of people really liked it and I do it shows up in comp titles a lot what we're talking about like kind of the same otesia, a test of big zone of like messy female protagonist. So that might be that it might have been a contender for where we had a mess of female protagonist because it did have it certainly had a moment maybe best articulated in that book cover and that like it feels like we're somewhere else. It's not over. I think we have moved on to trad wives and the dark side of trad wives now. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Different kind of mess on that side for sure. Um, let's see. I have the so the next story is audible launches this thing called story house. So you go to this place in New York and you sit down and I guess you listen to audiobooks and you knit stuff for Becca, which if that's your kind of experience, great. I'm excited for you. I have more of a question about this whole genre of marketing, right? Like I always think of this Sobi Lifewater VIP room from Parks and Rec like that no one is allowed into that's like a send up of this. Like do these things work? Do we have marketers in our audience? Like does this move the needle or is this something you do to show your boss that you're doing marketing? Like is it that we're talking like what is talked to why? Why? Why are we doing this? Yeah. I mean, I think this is a it's a clever idea. Let's have a listening. Maybe it's a let's have a listening lounge is a nice idea. Like part of it harkens for me back to like when you could go into a Barnes and Noble and listen to samples of any CD, you know, or like our shared favorite scene from one of our shared favorite movies when they're in a listening booth in before sunrise in a record store. Like that's that's an old fashioned kind of media experience. Like put on headphones, listen to a sample of something before you buy it. This is completely unnecessary now that you can listen to samples of audiobooks from audible on the whole internet is full. Yeah. So like this kind of stunt marketing to me, I would really guess like doesn't move the needle. It can't possibly be ROI positive. There's no way. It's not even supposed to be on itself, but like in two years. Yeah, but but they don't even I think it's a situation where like ROI is not even the consideration. Like it's just brand visibility. Some of that matters how much is impossible to know. Like you really cannot measure the impact or the lack of impact of something like this. Can't prove a negative. But you can. But you can tell your boss we got this many news stories about it. This many people came through the door. Maybe you get to give them promotional material while they're in there or something like that. Like it feels similar to me of like when an app launches a new feature that you know isn't really going to do anything. But like they've just got to launch new features often enough to keep themselves in the news and audible like everyone else perpetually looking for ways to stay relevant. So this is a 260 bar in New York. And if you're not a New Yorker, Manhattan, I you don't know, but like this is a used to be really hip. And now it's like expensive. Like again, New York has changed and I've been a while since I lived there. So it could be that my priors need to be updated. So they had to rent this building out, renovate it, brand it, market it, populate it. I guess it's going to be open forever. It's Wednesday to Sunday, 11 a.m. to 7 p.m. Like what are we doing? I believe it's time limited. Oh, it's not. It wasn't in the release. Yeah, I didn't see I'm on the web page. Now I don't see anything about like this is through April or something. Now summertime in New York, I'd imagine there's people going to be out. Maybe just people walking by it, taking pictures. I don't know. But like here's the other thing about this. So you go in and you put on headphones and you sit there. Like that's what people are doing. You go in with your date or your mom or your friends or whatever you're going to be going. You're going to sit there for a while. I guess. I don't know. It doesn't open till 11. So you can't even take your morning coffee in. They should have coffee there. Just do this. Make it a coffee place. You can sit there and drink your latte and listen to the thing. This is another. It's not really a rant, but I've got a I've got a I've got two minutes on another idea for you, Rebecca, or not an idea, just an observation. Let's do it. Browsing audio book sucks. It does. And this is no better than that because you're still going to be on a phone. Like you're you have headphones and it's connected to what an iPad that's connected to an audible I don't even know if you're I don't even know if you're why have you made this, Rebecca? Why did you pitch this to audible and why did you make them do this? Yeah, this is the number one way that I would spend audibles money. Yeah. Well, I mean, congratulations to whatever boutique agency pitched them and took the money to do this because I've got to say that's some excellent marketing work on your side. But you're going to get an iPad with headphones and sit there. I can do that at home and it doesn't help you because they're not going to have some special concierge to recommend you audio books. It's just not going to work. I still think that's a real problem. I do too. I think that a different version of this that would work better, but I think it's always going to be a problem like sampling audio books would be something like a Libro FM cafe staffed with independent booksellers who can be like, what's your vibe? Here is the thing that you should try listening to, which is better always than an algorithm. Like those recommendations are always better because they understand the vibe of what you're reading. They're not just pulling from like the keywords of the synopsis of something. I have another idea for you. Sorry. I was almost done with my idea, but I was like, I was looking at this as like, there's got to be something else here. And I don't think this is any better, but maybe it would be more interesting. Like, you know how I had this, I think I have picked idea years ago where I think there should be movie theaters in not that show real movie, like full movies in airports, but like a little movie theater, but all they're doing is just their trailers on trailers. I would sit there for 45 minutes and be advertised to I love movie trailers. I think a lot of people do. There's actually a small movie theater in the Portland airport, but it shows like indie art house clips, which is fine. I've never been in there because I'm like, no, but if it was like the Avengers doomsday and the Spider-Man and the Odyssey, my shit would be glued there. I'd be eating my overpriced sandwich and watching this. So I was like, could you do something where you're just playing like the best clips with like a big multimedia board with like the author reading it? Like actually, that would be sure. Give me 60 seconds of these things. Just give me 30, 60 second clips. That would be great. There could be like a version of this on flights. Like I know different publishers and retail companies have experimented with airlines. And I've seen stuff on Delta where it's like sample some Spotify playlists. Like it would be cool if you could sample a bunch of like the best clips from Audible's best sellers while you're there. If they were playing movie trailers or the best audiobook trailers on the TVs and the Delta lounges, like that would be a 500% improvement. MSNBC or ESPN deportees or ESPN2 whatever they're showing over. Fox News, which is for some reason on a lot of the TV. For some reason, no idea why they're in the Delta lounge coming out of Richmond, Rebecca. There's a shock to that. I have some news to you about the demo you're dealing with there. Listen, my demo here, first of all, there's not a Delta lounge in Richmond. We're not that fancy. Oh, okay. Yeah, it must be nice. Yeah. Like I think that would be super fun. Some sort of trailer situation. Now Audible is doing audiobook trailers at the movies. When I went to see the project, yeah. The first time I saw it was when I went to go see Project Hail Mary. They showed some clips from Ray Porter reading the Project Hail Mary audiobook and like some of the social content that's been built around that. And because Audible has exclusive audio editions of the She Who Not, the Wizard series that we don't talk about anymore. They're starting to show trailers for HBO's new series with Audible's audiobook stuff behind them. And like you can listen to these on audio. So there is some like cross media platform integration happening there. But we could do better for consumers, just bumping into audiobooks, then come into a listening lounge. Yeah, mystifying. Mystifying to me. Choose email podcastabookride.com if you know anything about this kind of a world I'd love to know. Let's see adaptation. Well, sort of paramount getting back into the books business. So the chain of events here. Is this just to publish books by Taylor Sheridan? We'll see. It could be. But remember Paramount is now Paramount owned CBS and CBS used to own Simon and Schuster. So books publishing used to be part of Paramount's business. But there's a new publishing imprint. There's IP in play. This is a piece in Hollywood Reporter by Alex Weprin. Did Taylor Sheridan get shouted out directly in this? Or are you inferring that? Because that's a good call out if that's just you. I mean, there is a Taylor Sheridan book out this year. Right. Well, that's like how I'm not to die or something or not to die in prison. Yeah, yes. Yeah, I try to know as little about Taylor Sheridan as possible. But there will be tons of crossover opportunities, either, you know, books that are directly related to movies and shows that Paramount produces kids books is a real possibility. For a lot of these, maybe memoirs by some of their stars like vertical integration and synergy. Let's just that's just what they're doing here. Well, I do think having control or getting in on, let's put it this way, the books that you're going to adapt into film and TV makes a ton of sense. Like, I do wonder, was it was it talked about at all in Amazon's funding of Project Hail Mary that we have the exclusive audiobook, which is a one up one? Was that was that a line on the balance sheet to say, OK, and if this works, we could pick up four million six. I don't know how many dollars I'm sure it's doing even better now. Or also, like in this case, when as they start acquiring books, things that seem especially ripe for adaptation, we can acquire this, we can move it over for film adaptation at the same time, which that's a process that needs some smoothing. Because it has to be galling to no end that they will not get the wetter beak at all at the attendant book sales surge that will happen when the wizard who shall not be named IP is going to be in our lives for 10 years. A sidebar about this, Rebecca. We're not going to be covering the story. I think we said on an earlier podcast, I was so glad to see how mediocre the trailer looks. I don't have to care about it. I haven't even watched it. Yeah, it's you're like, wait, this is what is this the new one? Well, that's not Dan Radcliffe. But that's kind of it at this point. Where we are with this coming out Christmas, overperform, perform or underperform, how this is going to hit like our people. Is this going to be a thing? Like, where do you? What is your vibe check on this right now? And let's just take for the moment all the nastiness about rolling to the side. John Lithgow has been on a podcast to her to try to cover. I don't know what he's trying to do is like, I don't agree with it. I think she's too much. But also she like, I don't know what that mealy mouth crap that he's doing. I'm not a fan of that. But outside of our own opinions of it and how much we want to participate in it, I am really feeling today like there's a real chance that this is rings of power on Amazon, which is there. Right. Or is that sound right to you? Why are we agreeing about that? I think that's right. It just, all of the excitement that I see about it is coming from the studio. Or from like the marketing sort of marketing pieces or publicity pieces from outlets like variety and entertainment weekly and places that like it's their job to cover this stuff. And most of the way that they get information is press releases from the studios. And like there's been a ton of press information about these shows because they really want it to be big. So they're trying to make it look like the most anticipated thing. But like, I mean, the thing that trended over the holidays this year was heated rivalry. And like, we're not going to get another heated rivalry this Christmas season, but there will be something else while we're all at home. I think this is competing with the original Harry Potter movies. Like there are families that just rewatch those at the holidays every year. There are families that rewatch Lord of the Rings at the holidays every year. And so like here's a new one to compete with the old one that you already love. And it's a TV series and it's going to go on for goddamn ever. I just, I think there's a real chance that it comes out and like we won't really get viewership numbers because it's HBO, but that it will not be met with the fanfare that HBO and Warner Brothers want it to look like it's being met with. I would love to know in their heart of hearts now what the powers that be at HBO are like, are we are we excited? Are we white knuckling the spreadsheets a little bit? Like what's our tracking date? Like I love to know because I think there's a chance it gets blown out of the water in Legacy Fantasy IP by the GERWIG Narnia stuff in the fall. Yeah, totally. There's a real chance it's a bigger story. Yeah, Narnia is out I think right Thanksgiving weekend. So that'll be cruising and like families like to go to the movies at Christmas too. So you're going to be competing against GERWIG in theaters, but also I'm sure there will be other family holiday movies that we don't know about yet. And Harry Potter, the new version, you have to stay at home. You have to have HBO. Yeah, anyway, I'm just I'm just curious right now. If you want to shoot us an email, like if you are yourself and we're not doing any judgment in this corner for you, it's like if you are yourself, your family members, like you're a librarian, like if you have tendrils out to the hive mind of culture, like if you're picking up on vibes about the HP, I really am curious about this right now to see where we are. I also could be biased against it and I'm totally misreading the market and that's more than possible at this point. Yeah, I think that could totally be what's happening. In adaptation news, I am excited about to see we did parable of the Soar Octavia Butler's signal work at this point. I think we can say parable of the Soar, her dystopia 1993 modern classic, Melina Mazzocchis, who was the director and writer, I believe, of Queen and Slim and Insecure. I'm not sure it was exactly what all of the credit she gets for all of these at the same time. She's also collaborated with Beyonce will be directing a filmed version of this. Let's go. Which is they're going to move it to early 2020s, California. I think as we said in Joe DeWall read, you could set this in California today because a lot of the same things are still going on. It doesn't need to be the 90s. It opens in 2024. The book opens in 2024. I'm sorry, you're correct. Yes, yes, yes. So they won't have to because Butler was writing into like 30 years into the future, so they don't have to move the timeline at all. And I'm stoked. Like let's do it. Melina Mazzocchis, like in addition to as you said, Queen and Slim and I think she directed eight episodes of Insecure has also collaborated with Beyonce on several videos, most notably the formation video. So like a real intersection of higher art and pop culture and pop culture that leans into higher art as Beyonce likes to do. I think this will be really interesting. We don't know anything about the writers. There's no this is like the first announcement about this is that she's going to direct it. So writing and casting still to come. I immediately was like, Chase Infinity, let's do it. Because you have to be a teenager, right? You're a teenager. That would be interesting. That would be very interesting. So we'll be watching for that. And then the last adaptation news of the week, which is definitely not going to help us correct our perpetual misunderstanding and thanks to listeners for correcting this about TJ Klune's books, not actually being YA. I have a point of order about this, but finish this story and we can come back into this. Warner Brothers has picked up House in the Cerulean Sea to be an animated series. Are you at campaign's lighting of the dashboard? But not the pipeline. That's bull spend. And marketers are calling it out in dashboard confessions. My boss asked for results. So we opened my dashboard for the only positive sounding metric I had. Impressions. Cut the bull spend. See revenue, not just reach. LinkedIn delivers the highest return on ad spend of major ad networks. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend £200 on your first campaign and get a £200 credit. Go to linkedin.com.com. Slash lead. Terms and conditions apply. 500 orders a month was manageable. 5,000 is madness. Embrace intelligent order fulfillment with ShipStation. The only platform combining order management, warehouse workflows, inventory, returns and analytics in one place. What used to take 5 separate tools, ShipStation does in one. Go to ShipStation.com and use code start to try ShipStation free for 60 days. Is there a baby in your life who's about to start solid foods? This can be such a confusing and stressful time. As a mom of 7, I really struggled with spoon feeding my oldest baby. But once I realized that babies can safely feed themselves real, wholesome foods using the principles of baby lead weaning, feeding the rest of my babies became an actually enjoyable experience instead of something that I used to dread. Hi, I'm Katie Ferraro, college nutrition professor and dietitian specializing in baby lead weaning, and I host the baby lead weaning made easy podcast. Each week we cover evidence-based, safe infant feeding practices for parents and caregivers of babies who are 6 to 12 months of age. So if you're confused by all the conflicting info you hear about starting solid foods or you want easy actionable tips on how to safely prep food for your baby or introduce allogenic foods or figure out when to drop a milk feed, we cover all that and more plus interviews with the world's leading feeding experts in two new episodes each week. Search baby lead weaning wherever you listen to podcasts and happy feeding. Which I think is a very cool idea actually. Okay, I was telling my family about this and they were excited. They were excited about this. What's your point of order? Well, this isn't YA and that's because we're told it's not right like the genre, but my understanding of YA is it's about teens and teen issues. Like forget the marketing category for a second because we can have category fraud. This has the Oscar that happens everywhere. This is set at a boarding school for adolescent sort of magical beings. They are not of age yet because they can't be in the world right or else they could be in the world right. Like it's even part of the plot I think of the maybe the first one but the follow-up for sure where someone's going to age out of the program essentially they're going to get too old and they won't be able to stay anymore. This looks like a duck, this walks like a duck to me. So I don't know that its market is YA. I'm very willing to concede them saying that it's not. But in terms of the vibe check from me a civilian reader of books, this is appropriate, aimed at resonating with middle grade to teen readers especially. And it may just be my car full of them, but that's where I'm at right now. So I hear you and I see you people listening, but I also respectfully abstain from yielding that this is lower case YA or wherever. Like this is a coming of age stories about kids that are different. Like what else do you want from lower case YA? Right. And like having not read them, but general category, the way that category generally works is like you can have an adult literary fiction book that is about young people, but it's the writing and the issues and maybe like the depth or darkness of it leans more adult and so then you're in adult fiction land. But when both the subject matter and the writing lean young adult, or and it seems that the audience is intended to be young adults, like I think this is a real candidate for category fraud. But I'm excited for everybody who loves these books that there'll be an animated series that's probably going to be really fun. That's the bigger point here that my category anxiety is not the main point. But I think this is a cool idea and I hope it is great. Yeah. All right. Let's wander, take our shoes off, hang up our coat in front list for YA, which is brought to you by thriftbooks.com. You know, one thing that's hard to find used is parable of the sewer. I think we talked about that. It really is. Yeah. I was doing the thriftbooks read for it and because it didn't sell hugely when it first came out like it did. Okay. But it's subsequently become a much bigger deal than it was initially, which is one 20, 20. It really popped. Macmillan did a series of reissues of Octavia Butler, including the one that you're going to find now. But you can find that copy and then you can set some alerts if you're wanting some vintage Octavia Butler titles over on thriftbooks, 19 million used and new titles free shipping on orders over $15. And each purchase gets you closer to a free reading reward redemption. I've got one of them burning a hole in my digital pocket. I'm not sure what can I do with it the other day. You can also sell your books back. Our family did a recent cleansing of our individual and collective bookshelves like whatever we're not going to keep. We need to make room for new things and very simple to scan. You can print out a label, ship them up, send them over to your books, get a few ducats back if that's something you're interested in doing. That's not in the talking point, Rebecca. I actually did that. They didn't tell me to do that. Just one of the things you can do. Not just a president, you're also the member. Yes, that's right. Exactly. Not the Herak Club either. They wouldn't ask me to be because it didn't work. When I opened up the agenda today, I was so thrilled to see your front list for you. So I'm going to yield the floor to you to talk first. Yeah, I read The Witch by Marie and Jai, which my first time reading her, this is a book from 1996 that was just published in English for the first time and it's on the International Booker shortlist. She's been doing some pub. Have you seen? She's been out there. Yeah, she has been out there. I got hooked by the description of this, that it's about a mediocre witch in a mediocre marriage, just living her life. Really, it's just a vibe. This book is just a short, lovely vibe. The main character, Lucy, she is indeed a mediocre witch. She's early 30s, I think, has two teenage daughters, but their flavor of witchery, at least as far as it goes for her, is that she can sort of see what's going to happen in the future and she can sort of see what people are doing right now. Her daughters, she has just initiated her daughters into the practice and they are much better at it than she is. It's a matrilineal situation. Her mother is a very good witch, but also her husband has just run off and taken a bunch of money that she inherited from her dad. She's trying to get her parents who have been split up back together. The equivalent of the HOA. So real sandwich generation witch stuff going on here. Yeah, the woman in their neighborhood who's the equivalent of the HOA president is a complete nightmare and she's around all the time in athlete's, athlete's sure that doesn't fit her very well. And just like the people in the population of this world was really fun to spend time in. I just really liked Injai's writing and found it to be like, it's not about the witches, it's mostly just about like little snapshots of daily life. She happens to be a witch and it felt to me like, what books used to feel like? Like this is a book from the before times. It's from 1996. Oh, it is from the, yeah, you're right. That's interesting. It is a book from before the internet impacted the way that people think and speak and write. And look before witches, I guess, practical magic, but like the witches were having like the big... The witch world we live in now is completely different than the 1996 witches. I mean, yeah, 1996 witches were like, I guess this and the craft, which is a totally different, also a totally different experience. Sabrina, the teenage witch. Yeah. So like if you want to read a book that has a lot of witchcraft and magic in it, it's not this one. If you're a literary fiction reader who's like, yeah, but what if when she's mad at her husband, she can close her eyes and figure out where he ran off to? So what's the point of the witch stuff? Like, because this sounds like the ledger domain of like regular lit, thick stuff, but like... The point of the... It's just kind of there. It colors their world a little bit. The witches who have more skill than Lucy can transform themselves into birds, crows and birds. And so like we get to see her daughters become birds and fly away and do some other stuff. But it's really not a book about being a witch. It's a book about, you know, navigating early middle age as a wife and a mother and nothing is kind of going your way. And even with these powers, it's still kind of tough. Rebecca, what do you think the most mediocre age is? The most mediocre age? Yeah, like where you're kind of nowhere, right? Because I am finding that I am now 48 years old. And there's a narrative here. Like I'm an early, late middle, like I don't feel mediocre in that. Like things are happening. Like I'm getting used to this. Like my body is changing. Like there's transition here. I was going to float to you 36 years old as the most mediocre age because you're not old and you're not young. You're just kind of stuck. And not stuck. You're just there. Like there's this long period of like 15 birthdays where you know, you're just doing stuff. Yeah, you're just kind of hanging out. Yeah. I could co-sign that like 36, 37. It was just sort of living life. I did feel like around, I'm 43 now. And like around 40, I really did feel the arrival of like, I've seen most of the kinds of things you can see. I kind of know what to do in life. There's a little wisdom. Yeah, 30. Yeah, I think those late 30s. Because you're not really transitioning in. You're like 10 years from transitioning into like ARP eligibility, getting like really body stuff happening. Yeah, late 30s to kind of be a little bit of a like an existential slog. And I like the 40s. So this character is in that zone. She's in an existential slog. Well, that's when you said that was like that kind of make it's interesting that she picked that age because I feel like that window is you've turned 30. So your real youth is behind you, though you're still young at 35, 36, let's be honest here. But you may feel in your heart that the young part of your life is coming in and you're not yet age. You haven't aged yet into your sujacity that's going to come. Yeah, I think yeah, it's a good question. I think that's the right zone. And it really just reminded me how nice it is to go back and read books that were written before the internet. That's really interesting. Interesting transition to one of my picks, the true true story, not my picks, like just this is what I read, the true true story of Rajah the goal by Robbie Elmedine, which won the National Book Award last year. Yeah, I am so curious about your take on this. And the subtitles is important here. It actually didn't get into a lot of the news stories. The subtitle in parentheses are actually sure it's a subsize just in parentheses and his mother is what's in parentheses for the title. Elmedine, which has has a really solid, I would say, lit-fick track record like this is not his first book that's popped a little bit. I think in terms of award, this is the largest word. He has won. I've liked his book before. And as I like to sort of color in my what was the year about, I want to I'm going to win the National Book. I'm going to read the National Book Award winner at some point. And he was kind of those things I was browsing, and I picked it up. And I read the first page and I was like, I'm into this vibe. It is the story of Rajah, who's the main character really from the early 70s till today when he's a kid into his, you know, early my age and a little bit older here, living in Beirut, living in this one apartment almost a whole time. And all of the political stuff that's going on, that's not really point, but also his personal journey of being a gay person and a gay man in this culture and this world, and his relationship with his mother. It is not at all like a gentleman in Moscow by Immortals, but I kept thinking about it in terms of sensibility, because it's really a portrait of almost a small world, right? It's his apartment, a little bit outside of it, and a character study of this person, but also written in a way that feels like a throwback. And the main character is a teacher of philosophy and literature, I think maybe just philosophize, a reader. And he even talks about reading things that are throwbacks of like a lot of hypotaxis, hypotaxis, we don't know of these longer sentences with a lot of subordinate clauses. It's written that way. It feels like it's not a Henry James-like book, but there's a sensibility that harkens back to like an earlier time of sensibility and portrayal, but also with more modern political, personal, sexual politics wrapped into it. There's a lot of trigger warnings, I should say, violence, sexual violence, a very odd and disturbing scene that's the crux of the book where he's taken captive by someone and held in captivity. It's more complicated than that. That has a longer term ramification, but it's also about dealing with your aunt moving in when their house blows up in the ammonium nitrate explosion of 2020 in Beirut and ends with a really meaningful touching, bittersweet grace note. I'll say no more about it. That reminds me a little bit at the end of Grapes of Wrath or East of Eden or Steinbeckian sort of grace note in a family. I really liked it. I raced through it. I found myself really wanting to spend time in these sentences and paragraphs and worldview. One thing I know both of you and I like is a writer who feels like they have real control of what they're doing and they're going for a vibe. They're going for a world. They're going for a sensibility. And while I much would have preferred, I think auditioned by Katie Kimura to win for a lot of reasons I don't need to go into here. I'm not mad that this book won by any stroke of the imagination. I'm glad I read it. That's True True Story of Rajah at the Gullible by Anna's mother by Rabia Alamedin. I'm glad to hear that. Yeah. So if you've been circling that, I would recommend that. And then on my audio listing, Making Art and Making Living by Mason Curry, this is a collection of stories about artists and how they made their nut while they were trying to make art. This is made for Jeff O'Neill. Very much made for me in knowing exactly what Paul Cezanne's monthly allowance was in 1901 so that he could paint, he could go paint pictures. I'm not sure there's a moral here, but if you are an artist or have an artist in your life and it feels like things are impossible and you never can make your art, I don't know, Rebecca, how helpful it is to hear it's always been that way. And people did it. And there's a lot of survivorship bias in these stories because every Paul Cezanne you've heard of, there's a bunch of artists you never have. And yet, you have the Paul Cezanne, the Virginia Wolf. And it's organized into chapters versus you inherited money, you had an allowance, you had a day job, how you really put these things together up until or maybe you never really made it to the point where you could support yourself with your art. George Bernard and there's all things too. George Bernard Shaw wrote five novels and that being of his career that were rejected by publishers. Five, Rebecca, five. Yeah, the headline is really, it's always hard to make art and the people who make a career and a full time living off of making art are the exceptions, not the rule. And if it does happen, it happens after decades of not doing it that way in a lot of cases. What looks like an overnight sensation is almost never actually. Paul Cezanne didn't have an individual show until he was 56 years old. So I find the stories refreshing is not the right word. I find them interesting. That I think that's one thing I've been more interested since doing this job and having this company than I ever would have before is that art commerce, you still got to make a living somehow. You got to have food and shelter and some other stuff. And how does that stuff work? And how does it affect shape, enable or foreclose the possibility of art making, depending on where money can and doesn't come from? And also I'll say this, the stories of people getting a huge inheritance doesn't go great all the time. It's like the story about lottery winners, right? There's these things like in six months, you kind of go back to what you were kind of turns out the same for artists, but more so because they're even worse with money than just someone randomly out of the phone book. I thought it was cool. There's not a big lesson. Mason Curry, yeah, he has a good newsletter too. Oh, I wondered, I didn't do any reading like how did this book deal happen? And I was like, I don't know about that. I get his newsletter. So that's making art, making living by Mason Curry sidebar. I'll get out on this on my front list for you. This is no shade to the narrator of making art, making money. Who's a professional audiobook narrator? I think I prefer nonprofessional audiobook narrators, especially for nonfiction. For nonfiction, I mean, if it's a memoir, I always want the author or even just the author. I want the author. I don't, you know, I don't even, if you get into a modern studio or even have a modern mic that like ours, it's a hundred bucks. That's surely your publisher. If you're going to make an audiobook anyway, I kind of just want the author. I'm not, the profession, it feels like a put on. They feel like they're performing where an author reading on their work doesn't feel like they're performing in quite the same way. I don't know what that is. I like this point. I agree with this. So that's me. All right. Bookwrite.com slash listen for show notes. Check us out zero to well read. You can find the Patreon, bookwrite, patreon.com slash bookwrite podcast. I forgot, Rebecca, what else are people supposed to know about today? You can always email us at book, podcast at bookwrite.com, especially with mom's dads and grads requests, Patreon members get priority there, but we will try to get through everybody. So send your emails in. We're checking them. And I mean, I think that's it. Also, we are a proud member of the Airwave Podcast Network. Great. Thanks for listening. Thank you, Rebecca. We'll talk to you all real soon. Right. As promised, we are so delighted to be joined by Kathy Galliano. She is the Executive Vice President of Merchandising for Books a Million. Kathy, thanks so much for being with us today. Thank you. I'm delighted to be speaking with you today. You've been with Books a Million since 2007, almost 20 years. That's such a long career in books and publishing, and the industry has changed so much. Would you tell us, what does it mean to be the Executive Vice President of Merchandising for the second biggest bookstore chain in the country? And what have you learned in those 20 years? How have you seen the industry change? Absolutely. First of all, I'll say one of the things I absolutely love about my job is that no day is the same. So that is, you know, I've been in retail my entire career to your point, almost at Books a Million for 20 years. I love being out in the stores. I actually was in the store 30 minutes ago before we jumped down to the podcast, talking with booksellers, talking with customers, staying close to our customers is really important. I spend a lot of time, not only with the booksellers, but also with our buying team. We're faced here in Birmingham, Alabama. That's where I was born. Oh, I had no idea. How fun. Yeah, fun fact. And also, you know, a lot of time with the publishers. The publishers were just in Birmingham about five days ago, really talking to us about all the books that they're excited about for the upcoming fall and holiday season. So we refer to that as publisher preview week when they're down in Alabama for, you know, some good food and top books. So yeah, no two days are really ever the same. So if I'm going to infer a little bit into that, you're deciding what you want to carry in the store. Someone's like, what books you're going to carry in the stores and then how they're presented and merchandising. So for someone who goes into a bookstores or a bookstore of any kind, really, and they think the books are just there, there's a lot more thought that goes on what books are on the shelf, how they're presented, you know, what the programs look like. What are some things that a reader that just likes books and cares about books may not know about how to bookstores organize or especially how books a million puts their stores together and how imagine the experience when someone comes into one of your stores. So one of the things that's really at the core, the ethos of books a million is, you know, we've been in business for over 100 years. And that started because we were trying to serve a specific need in a community, which was when the initial TVA dam was being built in Florence, Alabama. And our founder saw a need to have local newspapers available to workers that were coming in from all over the country. So obviously 100 years later, there has been a lot that has evolved. But I think that one thing that's really still true to our core is that we are about speaking to and serving the customers that are in the communities where we have bookstores. And so we take the input and all the information that comes from the publishers. But we are really much like the comment I mentioned earlier about spending time in stores, understanding our interactions that the booksellers are having with customers, what are the books that they're looking for in their stores. And I think that is at a real community level. And then at a broader level, you know, the bookstore is such a commentary at any given moment on what is going on in the world and what people are thinking about, what it is that they need, whether they're looking for education, entertainment or escapism. And that has never been truer than the moment that we're living in right now. You and your team have a really impressive track record of spotting those trends. The information that I received before the show, especially highlighted that you were on the manga explosion more than a year before it really hit its mainstream peak. How do you do that? I think that part of it goes back to that being really close to the consumer. I also think it's a combination of looking at trend further ahead and really being in some places challenging yourself to be in places where you might not normally be. Shaking up what it is where you're consuming a podcast or other types of information, what's going on in the media, what's going on, you know, in streaming media, in the movie landscape, you know, there's been a dramatic change. And, you know, Jeff, going back to a question that you asked earlier, I also think that there's been such a change in who our customer was in the bookstore pre-COVID to where we are today. We've had a dynamic change in the age of the consumer. Our customer at Buttson million is heavily female driven, but definitely has aged down. A lot of that having to do with streaming media and also the rise of book talk and tick talk, as both of you, I'm sure, are very well aware of. And what are you seeing in terms of those new trends that are coming up around these the younger readers and the book talk driven thing? You know, we've been tracking Romantic and now I'm wondering if you have an inside scoop on the next one. Well, I do think that, you know, Romantic still obviously has a big role to play. It's definitely getting has gotten darker. We're also seeing more and more interest in dystopian. You know, one of the things that has been important to what we're doing in our stores is we are, we have identified and brought in several authors while they're really still very indie and they have not been picked up by a major publisher. A really good example of that right now in our stores is HM Wolf's dagger mouth. Yeah, I've heard about this book. We have that book in print in our stores. We've had it in for several weeks now. That book will be published in July by an, it's an imprint of Simon and Schuster. So we are continuing to see that, but I also think that we're seeing a lot of branching out from the core, you know, Romantic, if you will. I don't have to tell you guys, obviously, heated rivalry has really heated up so to speak the whole sports romance. So that's definitely back on. I think that we're going to see more small town romance as we head into the holiday season that will continue to trend. We're seeing a branching out from Romantic, not only into dystopian, but also continued growth in horror and that is branching out, you know, relative to that. So, you know, there's never a dull moment in terms of what the consumer is branching out and looking at next. You know, a really fabulous story really over the fall and holiday season that even today is Matt Denman and the whole dungeon crawler, Carl lit RPG world, which for us in many ways, I think there's been a customer that, you know, that that series is addictive and has really a lot of people that we read that got behind that here, you know, at our home office. A lot of people reading that book that thought maybe they would never read that. Now they've read every single one of the books in the series and we're constantly talking about that series of people love it and but we've seen people branch out that maybe we're reading graphic novels or maybe they were reading Romantic or they're reading science fiction fantasy and, you know, that lit RPG is really a new arena. I was going to ask you, I've got so many questions. I'm going to try to keep them in some kind of a logical order and not just necessarily do the ones I want to ask and maybe what other people want to know first that I'll save my personal peculiarities for the end. How much variance do you see from store to store? Does that change over time? Do you have some canary in the coal mine stores or booksellers like, okay, if something's going on at this store, we should really pay attention to it because with a chain, you know, you've got a bunch of stores in a bunch of different locations. I could imagine it might be difficult to separate signal from the noise when you have that much information coming from that many different kind of places. There are stores that across the country and there's no one particular region, but there are stores that tend to lead on identifying trends or anything that are then going to catch fire and spread in a broader way. I do think that, and I'll use manga as an example, we've over-indexed in manga sales for many, many years and this was really pre-COVID. Obviously, as the streamers, Netflix being a prime example really brought anime to the masses. That hit a new stride during COVID as more people were being exposed to manga via anime and it was for some of them really the first time. We hit a huge peak really in 2022, kind of a little leveling off, but now really in 25, we've surpassed where we were in terms of that earlier peak that we saw in what was already a very robust business. I think that as that is related to stores, we had stores that were there from the beginning, but in some of our markets that we've served for, where we've had bookstores for 25, 30 years and communities there may be older and they were maybe more literary fiction, more non-fiction, those stores have now caught that tale, if you will, of manga and really saw that occurring more in the back half of last year, whereas there were other stores that were more urban or even in places that we won't call urban at all, that were on it at a much earlier pace. So interesting. I wonder too, this is something Rebecca and I wonder about a lot because we've been readers for our whole lives, we've been working as book professionals for 10, 15 years now, like what's changed and what hasn't changed. From your point of view, because of social media, because of streaming services, is there more pull from readers like a Freedom McFadden or a Colleen Hoover? Is it less push than it used to be? One thing that I have learned is that things will change no matter how they are right now, but I do wonder, you were around for coloring books like we were. Remember that? I tell people that when they weren't around for that, they don't believe it. People won't believe this moment we're in right now, 15 or 20 years from now, but I wonder if one thing that maybe has changed more fundamentally is push people into stores to look for things that they hear about online in a way that didn't happen in 2008, 2009. Do you see that still happening? Is that going away? And then the flip side of that question, like how much power do publishers and retailers have to put things in front of people that they haven't discovered on their phones, essentially? I definitely think that we are in the entertainment space. And as a result of what we've seen with the streaming media, and I think this is what you are meaning by the push-pull dynamic, because we're at a place in time where we've seen a renaissance, so to speak, with reading and the really growth of reading coming out of COVID that has sustained, which for all of us that whole books dear, it has been so wonderful to see. Maybe the reader came in because initially they were influenced by something they saw on book talk or a community that they're a part of, because that is one of the parts of being a bookstore, the community of readers and finding your community within that that's so important. But I think that that reader has gone on to discover books that they didn't really know that they would ever be interested in. And it's been two really great examples recently, which I know that you've talked about on your podcast. We've got Romantic readers in our stores who have just read Theo of Golden, The Correspondent or Project Hail Mary. So it might be hard to discern if that's a push or a pull and who pushed you. That's so interesting because... By a thousand pushes. Yeah, because those are definitely not titles that would be offered to readers as reader likes, like you're coming off a fourth wing or a guitar, here pick up The Correspondent. But there's something about maybe that they've crossed some kind of threshold into mainstream readers awareness and that's maybe the thing that people are interested in. Yeah, that's fascinating. And I think that one of the things, the common thread for me between Theo and The Correspondent is human connection. And I think going back to what we were talking about earlier, in a time bigger picture with whether you're worried about the war or the economy or how you're going to pay for your next tank full of gas, I think it's good to be reminded there's good in humanity and there's this human connection. And one of the things I'm really interested to see as a fan of remarkably bright creatures. I was just going to ask you about this. Yes. So we know this is about to come to the box office. And if you think about the core of what that book is, very different book from, you know, Theo of Golden and The Correspondent. But at the core of that book, in my opinion, it's also about human connection. And it really resonated at the time. And you know, we are very fortunate that was another book here at the office. So many people love that book. And we were able to get Shelby Van Pelt, the author to do a Zoom with a lot of us readers here. It really talked to her about, you know, and just sharing her passion for the book. But I think it's, you know, first of all, here we have Sally Field at the box office, along with an amazing cast. I think it'll be really interesting to see that book be poised to have, you know, a really nice second run. Yeah, we've seen this, right, Rebecca? We've seen this with where the crawdads, we've seen this with the Colleen Hoover movies, we just saw the Project Hail Mary, like, those adaptations work, they work. That Project Hail Mary is another one of those that's like, it's a man and an alien, but it is fundamentally a story about human connection or at least emotional connections and relationships between folks. That brings me back to something that I did want to ask you about, because you've mentioned this sort of community space, third spaces being a focus of Books a Million. And I'm curious about, as we're coming, continuing to come out of COVID, like, Jeff and I hear this from listeners all the time, that they're looking for book clubs, they're looking for ways to like, be out in the world and participating in literary culture rather than just on their phones all the time. What is Books a Million doing to bring them into the stores, to keep them in stores? And what does that like third space community engagement look like for you all? The third space community engagement is off the charts. People are turning out in record numbers for all different types of events, both in stores and also at off-site events, a lot of which we tend to host in historic theaters. And, you know, so depending on how many seats you have, that can be anywhere from 200 people to 2,000 people. And, you know, it can be anybody from, we have an event here this month actually in Birmingham with Dave Pilkey. We also have an event coming up in Philadelphia with Matt Deniman and we have, you know, Katherine Stockett also coming up. So there's a wide range of events. You can definitely see people want to be with their community. You know, I can be in the store and here's somebody come in the front door and ask for a book. And the next thing you know, there will be six customers gathered around a table that all want to talk about this book that they're very passionate. You know, you mentioned crawdads and I have a specific memory of being in our Paducah, Kentucky store years ago. And that exact thing happening and suddenly you have a mini book club. So we're definitely seeing that. I think that part of it is because of that community opportunity that books represents to sort of to find your tribe, if you will, whether you're reading, you know, literary fiction or whether you're reading literary RPG. And I think it's a safe space. And I also think that it's a commentary on another category of books that we have seen interesting, which is about the loneliness epidemic that we're seeing in the United States. And it's a real life opportunity to connect and it's a safe space. I think that's fascinating. I mean, there's a one there's one way of reading the Romantic E. Boom as also on that thread of being about connection, like maybe really exaggerated extreme examples of connection. But that's what it's about is like finding someone in a dark time or a highly charged time and really connecting with them and in finding that there I need you to talk me down from this the spread. That's a joke for Rebecca Kathy, because one thing that we have seen and Rebecca and I, I'd say are neutral to down on the deluxe edition, the spread, you know, the sprayed edges that that's not what we grew up. We don't really care about that, which is fine. We don't have to care about that. It's great for other people. But that is one thing the physical book can do that an audiobook can't do that an ebook can't really do. Talk to me about this new world of plus up print editions. Do you see that going in different directions, lessening? Is this now going to be stable to sort of table stakes like a dust jacket is? Or is this we're going to look back at this like a remember when we used to paint the edges of books and everyone was gaga for that? Well, one of the things I think that we have to remember going back to a comment I made earlier and this is not everybody but a certain segment of the population. As we attracted a younger aged consumer and got them back into reading and in the bookstore, they are also at an age in their life when they are they're furnishing their homes. They don't have as many bookshelves on their own as many books on their bookshelf as maybe one of us might have. And I think that there's that whole I know you're familiar with the term bookshelf wealth. Yes. So I think that there is, you know, having beautiful books on your shelf, particularly things that you plan to keep that are, you know, your favorite author, your favorite series, you're building out, you know, a collectible all the collectible editions. So I think that's certainly part of it. I do think based on the amount of those that we've seen, it's very interesting as they come in now and over the last six months to see, you know, one upmanship, if you will, in terms of what those straight edges look like. And that's, you know, yes, a sprayed a solid sprayed edge is not as competitive with a lot of the other beautiful editions that we're seeing. I don't think all of it is about the young collector. I mean, there are some of those books that I bought for myself. Some of them are, you know, nostalgic. There was a beautiful edition of Charlotte's Web that was out for holiday this past year that Harper printed. And I knew the minute I saw it that, you know, I don't have a grandchild yet, maybe one day I will. And I have to have that book because it was a favorite, you know, growing up. So I think there's something for everybody. And you know, one of the things we're very fortunate in that we've got a rich page to screen lineup for this year. Obviously that really started with Project Hail Mary. And there's so many things coming. But I think the magician's nephew from the car and the Narnia that we're going to see in November, as you can imagine, we're going to see some beautiful Narnia editions. And I know there are going to be collectors of all ages that will want that book on their shelf. Yeah, that spreading to it. I was going to ask about Remarkably Bright Creatures as a bridge there because there's a special edition of that out. And that's the one historically like I have a collected Winnie the Pooh for my kids that's like very nice. And it's not quite like the special, special, special edition, but it's a keepsake. Like this is something we imagine being part of our family library for a long time. The mid-list literary fiction hit getting sprayed edges in 10 years. Are we going to still be doing that? I have no idea. I'd be very curious to know that. I don't know that I haven't answered for that either. You know, it'll be it will be interesting to see the trajectory of where we're headed. But there is definitely still an appetite today in the market for those books. As we're wrapping up, I'm just I'm curious about what you're reading or what you've read recently that you're excited about to maybe just for yourself or that you are hoping folks will pick up as they come into Books of Million. One of the things I am a big Maggie O'Farrell fan. Yeah, you are. Land coming out in july. Yes. Have you read it? I'm finishing reading it right now. I'm near the end. And so no spoilers. You know, she just has the ability her the language in her books is so rich, so descriptive. It pulls me in and makes me become interested in places and times that if you had told me, you know, I was going to be reading about 1850s Ireland after the great hunger, I would have not necessarily gone there. And so I'm really, you know, that that is a book that I'm really I'm a fan of Maggie O'Farrell in general. And that's one that I'm really looking forward to. I think that we have got a rich lineup of names we know, you know, that are coming. Yes. And then also, you know, some debuts that I think will be will be interesting as well. So I think that the fall and holiday list is is shaping up nicely. And also in combination with the page to screen that I mentioned earlier, it's an exciting time to be a reader. It is. All right. This is this one's for me, Kathy. And one thing that I like to remind people of that history exists. And even 20 years ago is not that long ago. Can you remember some of the phenomenons that maybe people don't remember from 10, 15 years ago that were popping off the shelves? You know, I brought up coloring books before, you know, people don't remember that at once upon a time, 50 Shades of Grey was a huge surprise to everyone in books. Like, what do you remember from 10 or 15 years ago that a new reader, someone who's 22, 23, right, who's getting into books and reading now may not remember or have never have known about was a big phenomenon bookstores around the country. I think it depends on who the reader is. Okay. And you know, that old saying, what goes around comes back. So there are a lot of these that are making their reappearing in different ways. So, you know, I think twilight has certainly been one of those. You know, we're seeing in that space, there's always, you know, we've been in a dragon phase. I think there's some discussion there that will be seeing some some changes and some potential previous trends that are going to pop back up into that space as we move through the year. That'll be interesting to see. You know, you mentioned coloring, which certainly got during COVID, which is hard to believe six years ago now. You know, there's a big rise in analog hobby. And coloring has really made a very strong comeback. We've seen that over the last 18 months or so now. So, I just continue to think of trends in terms of what I know is coming back around and, you know, speaking of things that are coming back around in Page to Screen, we did pause in the middle of a meeting that a bunch of us were in just a couple of weeks ago to see the first Harry Potter trailer. So, a lot of people are really excited about that, you know, that coming out for holiday. So, so there, yeah, I think a lot of those are poised and, you know, on the pop culture and general merchandise side of our business. Masters of the Universe. It has been getting a lot of, so there's a lot. I can't believe this one. That was, I was a kid. I, I, if you would have told me the properties that were going to be mass cultural phenomenons in 2026, I would have he man like 10 out of nine. I can't believe it. I'll be super curious to see. I saw the He-Man trailer when I went to see Project Hail Mary and I was like, what is happening? Yeah. I can't believe it. Amazing. I can't believe it. Thank you so much for your time. This is really interesting. You're welcome back anytime. And where can folks find you or should they just be looking for Books-A-Million online? Books-A-Million.com and also, you know, I'm on LinkedIn. So, I love those and great to be both of you. And thank you so much for having me today. Great. Thanks so much, Kathy. Thanks so much for listening today. We hope you'll enjoy this audio book excerpt of Innamorada by Ava Reed, provided by our sponsors at Delray. You, Lady Agnes, last of all, he said, I would be happy to receive your judgment. Am I a true king? Her heart beat in that strangled, rabbit way, with as much vigor as she could manage. She nodded. What was that, Lady? Speak. This silence was the most callous ruler yet, more bitter even than the king, as cruel as the stones of the castle itself. I speak for all the house of teeth in this matter, Morosia said hurriedly, before this horrible regime could grow more entrenched. You are a true king, Your Majesty. My cousin would not ever think to question your virtue, either. Enough from you, Nikefra said. He waved his knife vaguely in her direction, and Morosia closed her mouth at once. I am asking the Lady Agnes. I would like to hear her speak it in her own voice. His gaze rested upon her. It was not a hateful gaze. It was not even angry, particularly. Whether blazing emotion had been, there was now only icy assurance. He was certain that he could make her speak. He did not even need to shout or snarl. He already felt half victorious. Agnes stared back at him, her tongue line limp in her mouth. Seconds passed as droplets from a tincture. The king blinked, and a bit of impatience leaked into his voice. Well, speak, Lady Agnes. Speak. She did not. What is wrong with you, girl? He spat at last. I am your king. His spittle sprayed onto her face. She did not even try to wipe it away. Father, Leopron said tersely, leave her be. She has proven her obeisance, as have we all. The king's gaze cut the air like a whip as he shifted to look at his son. She has proven nothing until I say so. Nothing will satisfy me but her voice, so speak, Lady Agnes, or if you cannot, I will have to rest the words from you myself. And then he drove his knife down, right through the centre of her hand. There were screams enough to butcher the silence for good. Though none came from Agnes' mouth, she did not even whimper as she looked down. The blade had driven straight through the meat and muscle of her, pinning her hand to the table. There was no blood at all, and the shock head, in fact, smothered most of the pain. She regarded the bloodless wound with a removed sort of curiosity. She felt almost buoyant. Though her hand was held fast to the wood, her mind floated freely, watching herself from above. The king regarded her with his mouth ajar, stupid like a gutted fish. He had meant to surprise her voice out of her, as if her silence was an animal that could be spooked. Yet the act was so brusque and quotidian that Agnes felt almost embarrassed on his behalf. He had no wiles, not even imagination, and true torture required a bit of both. And then at last came the anger, gathering on his brow like black storm clouds. He released the knife, leaving it to stand perfectly upright, held in place by her constricting flash. Over her head he gestured to the leeches at the end of the table. Trus, he said, more don't come. They shuffled across the dais toward him. They shuffled across the dais toward him. The remove Agnes felt made her sluggish. Her reflexes slow. By the time Trus and Mordant reached her, she could not manage to rest her hand free. And then, at the king's gruff instruction, they each took her by one shoulder and thrust her down onto the table. Father, Leopron's voice rang out in horror. Stop this! Let her go! With her cheek pressed roughly against the wood, Agnes could not see what scene played out above. She heard scraping as Leopron pushed back his chair and stood. The king stood too. Mrozia was letting out little, wordless squeals of panic, muffled, as though she had one hand clapped over her mouth. Metal clattered against metal. She could glimpse only the legs and feet of the Dolores guard as they cracked the doors and poured into the room, storming the dais. They crowded the table like weevils upon a crop. Agnes struggled to turn her face up until at the blurry edge of her vision. She managed to see four of them holding Leopron back. Their steel-clad arms gripped him about the waist and the chest, and then two others came and grasped each of his wrists. She had not given Nicheferus enough credit, she realised hazelly. He had some wiles after all. This was no impulsive turn. It had been planned and calculated, arranged like an act of a grand mask. And this mask had a theme to impart upon its audience. Do not ever mistake sluggardry for idleness. The slumbering bear is not complacent in its den. It is merely working up its appetite again. Adele Blanche had made this error, and now Agnes would pay a martyr's price for it. The knife was removed, and blood spurted from the wound like a spray of seawater. Agnes barely had the chance to draw breath before the blade was driven down again, this time into the tender webbing of skin between her finger and her thumb.