265: March Madness HORROR TROPES EDITION

What do you think? I think we're dead meat. Real dead meat. You're dead meat! Go ahead and laugh, you guys. Find the final group of bosses at this place. At Dead Meat. Welcome to the Dead Meat podcast, your horror safe haven. I'm Chelsea. I'm James and Grussel's over there laughing. It's Molly. Oh, it was just... She's so happy. She loves podcast days. Yeah. We're married and we like to get scared together and do March Madness Brackets because it's the season. Yeah. Brr-da-brr-da-brr. That's not the music for March Madness. No, that was like Brutalist. That was almost a brr-da-brr-brr. I know what you were trying to do. It's the Statue of Liberty upside down. I don't think you can do the March Madness music. We'll get sued. I think you will get sued. Yeah, that probably will get sued. Very copyrighted saying. Anyway, it's March Madness. Where it doesn't really have anything to do with sports. It's just a bracket. I'm wearing a Michigan shirt. I don't even know if fucking Michigan's still in it. They are our number one seed and the favorite. Oh, really? Oh, go blue. Favorite for many. I should go change. Too late. Too late. Too late. Good for us. Yeah. Good for us. I did not know that until this minute because I don't really follow sports. We just all went to school there. Anyway. It's good school. We got a bracket this year. Last year we did, I believe, worst friend. Worst best friends? We've done worst friend and worst boyfriend slash husband. And then we've also done your classic kind of who would be who in a fight. This year, we're not going to do a bracket with people in it. I'm changing it up a little bit. We're going to get abstract. We're moving into year 10 of Dead Meat, year nine of the podcast. Your brains are big and at this point big enough for abstract concepts. Abstract concepts. So this year we're going to do the worst or most overused or basically the horror cliches that we are the most tired of or that we like the least. Oh, so okay. So the winner will be the horror trope that we like the least. That's the worst. Yes. This is a battle. This is a race to the bottom. Got it. Yes. The worst horror cliches and I've assembled a list of, I think it's a good balance of ones that I personally dislike, ones that I like, but I know other people dislike. I've tried to be fair, fair and balanced. I've tried to be real Fox news about it. I looked at, you know, TV tropes was helpful. Researcher Bella was extremely helpful. She had a whole list of tropes ready to go along with examples of movies that these happen in and I kind of went off on my own researching journey and basically just picked examples from my own brain that I remember discussing on the podcast. Cause some of these hard to search can't really search when it's a abstract thing like person. What'd you say? It was like person saying hello into the. I had to get rid of that one. Okay. Because you cannot. Google search sucks now. As we have said many times on this podcast, I don't think if I had started it now, I think the early research episodes would have totally floundered because Google search is just such ass now. Like you can't, I was trying to search for the specific trope of like someone walking into a room and saying hello, you know, and everyone hates that. It's silly. And all that comes up now, and maybe this is less a Google search thing and more just and everyone using the internet thing and trying to farm likes. All that comes up is the same meme copy pasted on Facebook, Instagram, et cetera, where it's when the girl in the horror movie walks into a room and says hello, like she expects the killer to be in the kitchen like, Hey, I'm here. You want a sandwich? It's the same like that specifically. Yes. It is that over and over and over and over again. There are, I can't find you can't find any examples unless you wade through five pages of that being reposted with like three of the crying emojis. Oh yeah. Yeah. It sucks, man. Anyway, I had to get rid of that one. That's not on here. Okay. But we have a lot of other real winners here. Did you seed them? Yes, I did. Okay. I seeded them properly this year, at least as properly as I could. It's really subjective. No, it's subjective, but I tried to see them where I think I picked ones where they're ones that people pretty universally complain about or ones that I pretty consistently saw pop up on like worst horror movie tropes lists over and over again. And towards the bottom are ones that like personally, I just think are annoying. Okay. But let's get started. Let's get into it. Because I know like the early rounds at least always take forever because we got to discuss. Yes. And it gets faster as it goes along. It is a sweet 16, not a full 32 because that would take forever. Have we ever done a full 32? No, God. Oh yeah. Okay. That would take way too long. Matches 64 contestants. Yes. Yes. Oh, why sweet 16 is eight matches. Yes. So, yes. Long terminology. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe we should start with nothing. No. Okay. I'll give you one more guess. Gressle do you have a guess? I don't for a number one overall seed. I want to say cell phone not working but I don't think it's that. It's got to be not double tapping the killer. All right. I'm out. Our number one seed in my opinion. The crazy person no one believes. Oh, that's a good one. Yes. Now does this mean. Crazy in quotes. There. Okay. Yes. or is this the lead character? This is the, yes, this is the lead character where no one believes them. Yeah. Or it takes forever for everyone else to get on board. Yeah. Let me see if we've got good examples of this. Like the Twilight Zone plane? That's a good example. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a crime line on the wings. Crime line on the wings, yeah. That's Shatter, right? Terror at 30,000 feet? Something like that. Yeah, yeah, Shatter, yeah. I think just all of Final Destination's a good example of this. I don't know if I would count this because that series kind of falls apart if everyone believes the person. Yeah. No, I think this would be more so where it's like, it's reasonable to believe. I don't know, it's tough because a lot of the times the thing being said and not believed wouldn't, I wouldn't believe it, you know, in a real world. You'd be the horror movie husband. I'd be the horror movie husband because we live in a rational world. Look, our house is haunted. There's a demon in it. And you would be like, honey, I'm getting you 50, 150. I mean, I wouldn't go that far, but be like, okay, what did you eat before you went to bed? You have a sleep paralysis, demon. You know, trying to find the reasonable explanation. Right. Bella has Marty from Cabin in the Woods as an example. Okay. Yeah, I could see that. Yeah, because especially in the beginning when he's like, guys, everything's off. Like this guy's a scholar and he's acting like an idiot. That one's tough because they're being drugged. Right. And he is specifically immune to the effects of the drug thanks to the weed that he smokes. It's kind of a play on that. Yeah, it's a great play as so much in that movie is. Cabin in the Woods is a hard one. Cause I saw it used as an example, not just in Bella's research, but on like TV tropes and stuff as an example for a lot of these tropes, but it's a weird one because it's. It's acknowledging it and giving a more rational explanation for why it's occurring. Yeah, it's like commenting on it. Same with scary movie where it's a play on a lot of these things. So it doesn't count. I would argue if it's narratively serving the same purpose, it counts even if the reason it's happening is kind of meta. If it's narratively serving the same purpose, like at the end of the day, he is the person that no one is listening to. I mean, what about like orphan with the mom, you know, trying to convince people that there's something wrong with Esther. That's a perfect example. Are there other examples that we have here? No, those are the examples that I have. Yeah, I feel like. Orphan's a great example. Yeah, I mean, the only thing that I think could break it is if we focus on how most of the time there's a reason for them not to be believed. Cause like even an orphan, she has a history with alcoholism and so it's like they use that to cast doubt on her. And you know, it's obviously, the whole point of it is the back and forth of like, should you believe them or not. Rosemary's baby. Yes. I think fundamentally a lot of horror movies just kind of fall apart without this trope and become a lot less interesting. So, okay. And it's going up against not calling a creature what it is. And on TV tropes, this is listed as not using the Z word. So for example, in 28 days later, that series, they call them the infected, deadites instead of zombies. Although I guess deadites are kind of their own thing. Deadites are possessed by a Candarian demon. In the movie, The Hunger, the David Bowie, Susan Sarandon film, they never use the term vampire. Okay. In leprechaun, foreign space, he's never called a vampire as we discuss on our We Hate Movies episode. Yeah, what is it? He's like the creature like. Yeah, they kind of assume he's an alien. The alien, yeah. I think they just call him an alien. Yeah. Weirdly, Night of the Living Dead 68 kind of counts retroactively. Yeah, never saw a zombie. But it's weird because zombies back then in the late 60s meant something completely different. It was the Haitian. Yes. Yes, they were. Like mind controlled ghouls. Yeah, in Night of the Living Dead, they were called ghouls. Because zombies back then were associated with voodoo. And it was, you were the subject of mind control by someone else. The original Romero trilogy, the word zombie is only used once in Dawn of the Dead by Ken Faray. He's like, there's gonna be a thousand zombies in here. Yes, and wreck, it's a virus and not zombies as well. So mostly zombies. Zombies, yeah, that's why the trope itself is called not using the Z word. Vampires, I think, is a second place, is like the runner up for. Okay. Which of those two do you think is worse? I don't find either of these two particularly bothersome. Not bothered by either of them, honestly, yeah. Yeah. But I think especially with the examples we're using here with the zombie ones, with the, like those, there is a difference between an infected zoomer or whatever, I don't know. The rage-filled virus or like, there's a difference. And I think that that counts for something. So I guess the person not being believed is the worst trope. Yeah. Yeah. I'll vote for that one too, just based on the kind of vocal opposition against it, even though I do think it really has its place. Yeah, yeah, I'm curious as to what it'll face next because I could see us getting rid of it. I think so too. Next up, we have the trope of everyone splitting up. Oh, that's a rough one. Yeah. Because there's often not a good reason to do it. There's barely ever a good reason for this. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, to the point where that is parodied and screamed scary movie, it's one that universally drives people crazy because why would you do that? Yeah, because this one is much harder to justify because what are the benefits of splitting up? Covering more ground, I guess. So it has to be a non-dangerous situation where the trade-off is worth it. But in most cases, I would say people have already died in these films. And so we're gonna split up for whatever reason and lessen our chance of surviving as a group, safety in numbers. It really is hard to justify. What examples do we got here? Funnily enough, Cabin and the Woods is an example, but it's a meta thing where the drugs get them to think they should split up. Yeah. Because their instinct is to stick together, but they are forced to split apart. Marty's the only one who is confused by this scary movie. Two makes fun of this and the thing, this happens in the thing. It is kind of weird, they would all split up. That's like the worst one to do. It kind of is the worst situation to do that in when the whole mechanic of the alien is it can take over people and copy them. Why would you not all stick together at all times? Yeah. But if you do that, you don't really have a movie. True, yeah. If you're all just walking around as a clump of people back to back, knives out. It was like Abed's horror movie from Community where he's like, no, Britt, and I will just stand there back to back throughout the whole night and stay alert. I mean, this is a very frustrating one to watch because it's the type that really gets you yelling at the screen of like, why would you do that? Yeah. Well, it's funny because I always, when I think of we should all split up, I just always think of Scooby Doo too. That's every single episode is let's split up. Yeah. And I wonder if that's almost worth it. Logic kind of comes from. They split up in bodies, bodies, bodies, right? I think that's because they're playing that game. Oh, right. Yeah, that one's motivated by games. Which is a clever way to make that happen. It's not motivated by. It's searching for something else. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because the murder, murder happens after they all split up. Yeah, see that one's justified. A rare occasion of that. Yeah. So what's that going up against? This is, okay, people are gonna be mad at me for this one. This is what I put on here because I personally don't like it. And I think people are gonna have a problem with it. The killer head tilt. Oh, okay. It happens a lot. I hate the killer head tilt. In all occasions? Not all occasions. Halloween did it and that's great. We originally, like Michael Myers, that's real scary. Pins Bob on the wall, does the little head tilt? Yes, and he does the head tilt. He admires his artwork. It's great. What about, can I interest you in a little bit of Jason Takes Manhattan? When Jason swims to the shore, turns around, sees a giant billboard with a hockey masked fellow on it and does a little head tilt as in, oh, hey, that's kind of like me. Well, that's different because that's like, hey, that kind of looks like me. Okay. But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the killer kills someone and it's supposed to be scary that he does the head tilt. Okay. It's not scary to me. Yeah, I mean. To me, it's just, well, we're referencing Halloween. It's tough because Halloween is the one. It did it. It did it. And it's in character for Michael to do it. To me, it just always feels like it's an homage to Halloween, which to be fair, one of my examples is Scream and in that case, it could be an homage. Oh, but Ghostface is always fucking tiltin' his head. That's true. Well, that's the problem, I think, with the silent masked killer is- Yeah. You gotta have him express things somehow. Yeah. It's because if you're going for the strong silent type like a Jason or a Michael or I even have hush here. The hush the killer does the head tilt and your character is not super animated. It only leaves you with so much. Yeah. And I think it's why you end up in Scream because Scream also, Ghostface has to be able to beat anybody and it leaves you with only so many, for lack of a better word, animations that Ghostface can do. So you've got your head tilt. You've got the wipe the blood off the knife. You got flossing. Yeah, he can floss. He can hit the gritty. You can't have so many, you can't have too many things he does where it looks different and you're like, oh, I think I might know who that is. It has to be generic enough. I don't know. I wrote here that I'm realizing my issue with the head tilt and just the kind of generic almost template of the strong silent killer is why I love Leatherface so much. Yeah, because I was going to say Leatherface doesn't do this because Leatherface is also a big masked killer who doesn't really talk, but he'll make noise. Oh, he does make noise. Like he verbalizes, but he is in. He's vocalizes. Yeah, he vocalized, but he's he's grouped in with the same like big boy killers, but he's so animated and he's got so much personality. He gets worried. He wears his emotions so outwardly and he gets to do so much that he doesn't rely on the same two, three kind of stock gestures. I don't know. People may be totally. I think it's a disagreement here, but I agree that like I don't want to see silent killers tilt their heads too much because it's it's overdone a lot. But splitting up is just I think the more egregious thing that'll make it. That will take someone out of a movie more than a head tilt. A head tilt might be like a eye rolled or a grown people splitting up risks falling into the territory of like this movie is bad because the writing is bad and the characters aren't acting like real people would. I think that's fair. I think it's more maybe inside baseball being annoyed by the head tilt versus a more general audience. Mm hmm. If you're seeing something opening weekend and the characters say to split up audible groans in the theater. Absolutely. For sure. All right, let's split up is moving on to the next round. Next up, we've got the mirror jumpscared. Ah, usually in a bathroom cabinet mirror. It's always the bathroom cabinet because they like have it open. The mirror. Yep. And then when you close it, there's someone behind you. I always think of a bathroom cabinet. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty much always that I think it's that in American werewolf where he sees his friend. Mm hmm. Pop up behind him. Let me look at my other examples. I love the way radio silence plays against it and scream five with Dylan Manette's character. There's that whole long sequence of them being like, because it's also like the fridge door, you know, it's basically the same scare where you have the fridge door open and then if you close it, there's a killer right there. And they do all those scares setting it up and then not having the scare happen. And then right as you start to get your guard down, they hit you with it. What's interesting is for as often as I found examples of mirror jump scares and horror movies, there are just as many examples of fake outs like in screen five. Yeah. There are so many fake outs. I think because the mirror scare is so ubiquitous, there are so many horror movies that do the fake out because that setup just is so anxiety inducing. And it's just part of the language now, you know, everyone, no matter how many horror movies you watch, you just know at this point that if someone's looking in a bathroom mirror, you are expecting the scare to happen. So at this point, it's almost, yeah, like you say, the cliché is to not have the scare. Yeah. Good examples of the mirror scare. Black Swan is like all mirror scares. She's looking into lots of mirrors. There's actually one that's not a bathroom one in Psycho, the original Psycho when the sister is looking around the house at the end and she turns around and she sees herself in the mirror and gets scared. Yes. Yeah. Jason loves a good mirror scare. There's like a I feel like a bunch of Friday movies where he's creeping up on people in mirrors. It chapter two, it grown up Henry Bowers attacks Eddie in the bathroom. Oh yeah, it stabs him in the face. Yep. Nightmare on Elm Street in Freddy's Dead. Tracy is in the bathroom. She looks up and when she looks up, she sees in the reflection that the room's changed in her old home where her abusive father is waiting for her. And in Freddy vs. Jason in Mark's Nightmare, he's getting pills. She'll help him stay awake and he closes the cabinet and his brother in the tub. Right. His reflections replaced by Freddy. Oh, okay. Yeah. Happens twice in orphan. We got orphan again. Wow. First time Kate visits the medicine cat. It's always again, it's always a medicine cabinet. She closes the door to find nothing. But then the second time she goes to the medicine cabinet and she closes the door, it's a Peter scars. So I always made it. SARS. SARS. Thank you. It's a Peter SARS guard jump scare. He's standing behind her. It's her husband to clarify. It's not just like actor Peter SARS guard as himself in her house. Paranormal activity three when the two sisters bring the camera into the bathroom to do Bloody Mary, they there's a jump scare where the sister turns on the flashlight and she screams to scare the younger sister and then they run out of the bathroom and they don't notice the there's like a silhouette in the mirror. So it's like not even quite a jump scare, but it's just like a scare using the mirror. Yeah. Yeah, which is really fun. So mirrors a lot of I mean, Oculus is like a whole damn movie about the mirror. Pulled her guys three, a lot of mirrors and that that one scared me so much as a kid that and I've probably told this before I had a mirror on my closet door in my bedroom as a kid. And then after pulled your guys three, I got so scared that I like kicked the closet door until the mirror broke and fell. Mirrors are never really many more. Yeah, they're scary. They've been scaring humans since we invented them. I feel I feel like our own reflections have scared us. Candyman. Yeah, entirely around a mirror. Yeah, but I guess like for this specifically, it's like not just mirrors and horror. It's like the setup of nothing's behind me and then something changes behind me. Got it. This is going up against the creepy gas station. Attendant. The Harbinger, our old friend, the Harbinger, which I don't think I think the era of the creepy gas that's long past, right? As far as occupationally, yeah, I feel like he kind of withered away in the 2000s. Like, you know, once once we got the era of quote unquote, elevated horror, I think the gas station attendant kind of saw the end of his heyday. You know, Google Maps played a role. Yeah, because you're not like pulling over to get directions. You know, pulling over to get directions. I think that character trope has simply changed occupation, like I said. I just associate it with like a wrong like wrong turn style kind of movie. There's wrong. But I mean, even even going back to Crazy Ralph, yeah, he's like a Harbinger. Because what specifically did you write down? Is it gas station specifically? Yes, gas station. OK, so it's yeah, Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Yeah, like you said, wrong turn. It does crazy Ralph work at the gas station. No, he's not employable. That's what I'm saying is I don't think he's a gas station attendant. Nobody's still a Harbinger. OK, yeah. So are we different? That's why I asked. That's why I asked. Of doom, because Harbinger of doom again, occupationally, he shows up in a lot of different ways still to this day. OK, so we need to make a decision here. Is this creepy gas station attendant or re broadening this to be Harbinger? Because sometimes creepy gas station attendant is even a Harbinger. Well, like in Tucker and Dale. Yeah, I mean, that's a parody. Yeah, yeah. But they might just be like in on it, maybe as opposed to Texas Chainsaw. Yeah, as opposed to like someone trying to warn the protagonists about what's happening or and again, as always with these cabin in the woods, has a great play on it with Kevin the woods is on here. What a guy. Is that his name? I don't know. I don't know his name, but yeah, it's the only person to take his job seriously. Yeah, because fucking Bradley Whitford's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, like mocking him around the phone. I've got the hills have eyes on here, too. Oh, yeah, because that guy he tells the family, like, don't go out there. Like, just turn around and get out of here. And that guy gets killed, too. Uh, yeah, I guess it's up to you. What do you want to do? Keep it specifically to gas station or or broaden it out? You know what? I'm going to say let's broaden it to give it a fighting chance against Mirror Jump Scare. Oh, OK. Because let's let's make it a little bit more because I'm trying to think of like some of the more recent iterations of the harbinger. Does Lequise Stanfield and get out? Or no, maybe not because he's already at the location. And he's like a victim. And he's a victim of it. Yeah, this is usually someone who's removed, who like knows something that's going on, kind of, I don't know, like, you know, James Urbaniak and Grind. It's a great example that everyone has seen. It's a great example. Yeah, fuck, I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I know that I referenced them in plenty of kill counts whenever they pop up, just regardless of their occupation. In any case, I think I'm going to go with Mirror Jump Scare as the worst. As worse, yeah, because it's it's, as we said, becomes so cliche that it's also a cliche to not do it. So you're kind of put in a corner with like, do you feel manipulated by it? If it shows up a little bit, like if someone goes into the bathroom and is out of cabinet, are you just like, God damn it? You see it coming, you know, and it has to be done really well in order to pay off with everyone expecting it. So I feel like it's the more difficult one to because Harbinger, listen, you need that in the story sometimes. You need you need that exposition and it can be like a good opportunity for a character actor or like someone to have fun with that role. Mirror Jump Scare is just like, OK, we know what's happening. OK, yeah, I know that we have been coming to consensus on these so far. Gressel is our tiebreaker if we can't. Gressel is the tiebreaker. If we can't figure it out. I'm with you on this one, though. I think that you can see the brushstrokes with the Mirror Jump Scare and the Harbinger is is just like it's a story. Hero's Journey stuff. Yeah, yeah, you know, it's just it's just part of the language. Yeah, yeah. I wish I could think of a good example of a more modern Harbinger of doom. Yeah, I reference them all the time and kill counts, but my brain's not working. OK, next up, this is one of my least favorite tropes of all time. I fucking hate this. We need to retire it ASAP. Shining. What? Shining. No, no, no, no, no, that's not on here. The Shining Act swings not on here. No, it's not on here, but it should be on here. It should definitely be on number one. Over. Yes. That's a very specific to the. I don't know if I would call that a trope necessarily referencing the Shining someone's someone's behind a door, their faces up against it. And then in the foreground, a blade of some sort through it. And if if they do the camera movement following the axe from the other side, I'm getting that's what I'm getting extra fist. And then, of course, it is it is way over the top when you then have the shot of the person sticking your face in the hole. I hate it. I hate it so much. We like stop it. Fucking stop it. There was a year where I swear to God, like four movies did it. Chelsea's just Michael Jordan. Stop it. Get it. Stop it. Get some help. I OK, I'm glad it's not on here because I'll just be sitting here getting crashed. Now I'm going to. Yeah. OK. No, this is another one that I hate and should be made illegal. Creepy crayon drawings. Oh, you do hate this. I hate creepy crayon drawings. They are never scary ever. Like creepy kid drawings. I just I don't like there's only a couple times where I've ever found them scary. I just think it just always looks like an adult drawing. Like kids drawings look so specific. And I feel like creepy kid drawings look like people have made them who have fine motor control that is way beyond the development of like a five year old or however old the character is supposed to be. And it's also just like not scary to me. The only times I found it creepy are like the ring because it's not I think in that movie, it's not like stick figure drawings. I guess I hate when it's like, mommy, I drew this of us and it's like stick figure of like the mom getting stabbed or whatever. No, it's like stick figure family. And then like tall, scribbly monster next to them. And they're like, who's that my friend? My friend, Feebleglues. Yeah, I hate that shit. I think in the ring, it's just like black circles. Like that's creepy. Are there examples of times where it doesn't work? Let me see. Yeah. Sorry, I'm just rambling with my own examples because I genuinely hate it. So she's so mad. Children of the corn, the ring, insidious. There's a lot of that and mama. OK. Yeah. I just it's just never scary to me. Yeah. But you're so right. The like, who's this in the picture? Oh, it's my friend. Yeah, he doesn't like you. It's just not. I don't know. OK. Creepy crayon drawings are going up against this is this is a trope that I kind of am defining on my own. That this is not like a TV tropes page. This is not something that was on Bella's list. This is something I just kind of like came up with that I think should be its own trope and that is saggy boobs are scary. Oh, well, it's a little old naked women. It's a more specific subset of old women are scary. Old tall. This is specifically long, pendulous. Yes. So mama X X. Wreck and wreck. Wreck. Yeah. It chapter two. It chapter two. Yeah. The shining. Oh, yeah. Yes. One of the originals. The visit. Nana's walking around naked at night. Oh, yeah. Wait. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Oh, yeah. She's I mean, at least for the back. From the back, she's looking pretty good. Yeah. Barbarian. Barbarian for sure. Yeah. Arguably the substance at the end. We've got a big long saggy boob. And I think in some cases it fits like with substance. The substance and X X is my favorite of that trilogy because of the way that it discusses women's bodies and aging and the fear of aging and sex. And no, I love X. Again, a lot of these tropes. We're not saying it's bad if you use the tropes. No, no, no, it's I have like such a complicated relationship with a lot of these because for most of these tropes, I have very good movies listed as examples. And there's going to be movies that use these well and movies that don't use these well or use these in a way that feels flippant or, you know, not well thought out or maybe just surface level. Yeah, easy. Yeah, easy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What else do I have? Oh, the witch. We see her really briefly, but when the kind of see that shot of where she's like grinding up the baby and she's rubbing it on herself. OK, yeah. Yeah. I forget if we see her boobs, but maybe maybe we see some side boob. I forget. But that's my my newly defined. That's my contribution to humanity. It happens a lot. Saggy boobs are scary. Stamp it, put it on TV tropes. So there it is. I just it's a visual that I and I think we talked about it in. We might have talked about it in our barbarian episode. And I forget what else. But I think I mentioned like starting to get sick of it because it's starting to become a visual that I'm tired of. Yeah, because it's starting to feel like it's an easy shock value thing versus something that holds kind of visual weight and feels genuinely interesting to me and feels like it's saying something. I don't know. So what's worse, saggy boobs or children's drawings? Children's drawings. I hate children. Really? Yeah. The saggy boobs thing, I think at least we're horrors at now. When I look at this list of movies, most of them still, whether it's barbarian, even if I did say like, look, I'm getting tired of this, barbarian still we're saying something. Thematically. Yeah. We're saying doesn't smile also. The first smile at the end when it turns into her mom and she's running at her. Oh, does that might be doing it too. Yeah. So it's it might it might be imagery that I'm getting tired of. But it's there for a thematic read. I don't know some of these cases. Yes. And in the cases where it is are really good movies. Yes. It just annoys me fucking less than the shitty stick figures. All right, I'll go. I'll go shitty kid drawings. Yeah. Those are pretty equal to me, but I agree with your reasoning. Yeah. And in most cases, if there's like makeup or anything done, like the substance that's how you boob was like a cool effects piece. Oh, sure. There's more artistry put in making more artist. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Drawing the kids drawing. OK, I just have a list of kill counts here to help try to spark any memories of these specific tropes in films that I've covered. So if you see me looking down at my phone, that's what I'm doing. Next up, we've got a classic. This is another one that I think people pretty universally hate or are sick of. Do you want to take another guess? No. Any other guesses? No, it's the cat jumpscare. Classic. It's the cat coming out of fucking nowhere for some reason, which maybe jumping onto a trash can. Yeah, into a window. Yeah. Real real recent example of this on the kill count with Stepfather 2. Very cheap scene with from Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2. What's her name? Stretch. Oh, Caroline Williams, Caroline Williams in a scene that they had to reshoot. Yeah, horrible. When I saw it, I just was like, this is bad. It's just it's the worst kind of jump scare. It's the kind that people say, think of when they say they hate jump scares. Yes, because they're cheap and there's no. It's not like a good reason in universe for it to occur other than to scare a person watching the movie of it. I would say, arguably, when people think of jump scares, this is what they think of is the cat. Yeah, I think it's this or the mirror. Yeah, yeah. But like even with the mirror, it's often a killer behind the person. Or when it's not the killer, it's usually a person who is very anxious or scared about the things going on around so they're on edge and so they close the mirror. And we've all been there, you know, we'll turn around and you'll be in the room and I didn't know and I'll get scared. So like even that has more of an in universe justification for it occurring, as opposed to the director threw a cat at the actor because we needed a little scare for the audience in particular, the movie watching audience in this moment. Is it true that in Friday the 13th part two, you can see the technician throwing a cat through the window? I don't know. That's what it says. Through what window? Would that be Alice's window in the beginning? I don't have the specific scene listed, but I think I saw this on TV tropes and I was like, I have never heard this before. But I mean, I've covered those movies a lot and I don't remember that little fun fact, but I would not be surprised. I wouldn't be surprised. I wouldn't be surprised at all. This is another one where a lot of the of my examples here, I have got like a handful of movies, the cat jumpscare. I've got a whole fucking list. We've got Alien. You've got a Jonesy jumpscare. That one, I don't mind as much because Jonesy's kind of an established character. Yeah, it's not some random cat in an alley. Yes. Yeah. Amityville horror. We've got a random ass cat that shows up. Darkness falls. There's a cat that jumps onto the hood of a car. Oh, yeah. I remember complaining about that one. Yeah, yeah. Demon Knight. There's a Jerry Lynn has a cat that shows up a couple times and scares people. Yeah. Friday the 13th, a few, I think like most of the movies have a random cat scare, which usually is then followed by a Jason scare. It's like a double. You know, it's a fake out. Halloween 2, there's a security guard, I'm guessing at the hospital. Oh, yeah, at the hospital. He gets scared by a cat and then he he sighs in relief. And then of course, Michael shows up. Yeah, it's there's a lot. What's this going up against? This is going up against a one that I also very much dislike. I just know like cat jumpscares a heavy hitter. But I'm going to make an argument for this next one because it's one where I'm like, listen, I know we all hate the cat jump scare, but I'm going to argue that this other one is just not scary and maybe we can we can pump the brakes on it a little bit. And that's messages written in blood on the wall. Oh, man. This is why you're asking about Hellraiser 2. I want that is why I was asking about Hellraiser 2 because I couldn't remember which Hellraiser movie this happens in. I knew it was to. Yeah, I'm in hell. Help me, which is that's pretty scary. That one is a scary. I'll give you that. That one's a fucking scary one because that message is scary and the implication of it's fucking scary. That's a good one. And I'm that's what I'm saying. I mean, Hellraiser 2 is a good. That's a good movie. Yeah, I'm just saying, like I said before, this list, there's there's good examples of these and there's bad examples of these. That's a very good example. You've got your next. You got your next written on the wall. Urban triangle. I just rewatched triangle. Oh, is there a blood message? A blood message. It's like me in the theater or whatever. Um, aren't you glad I didn't turn on the light from Urban Legend? That's a good one. Aren't what's your favorite scary movie from Scream 4? The Trick or Treat Brian Cox segment. There's like blood writing all over the wall from Sam and the boy. There's like a blood message that I think leads her to discover that the boy is a guy living in the middle. Whoa, spoiler. Spoilers for the boy. The hot guy in the wall. Um, I just like aesthetically, I'm just never like, oh, scared of a blood message. I get it because it does feel like a very easy way to try to establish that. Isn't this scary? Like your killers are fucking with you. Yeah, so messed up psychologically that they'll. They're so fucked up. They'll write this message in blood. Yeah, they'll take the time. I was going to say they'll take their sweet fucking time to make it look good. And it's all always the same font. The free font that we have downloaded for our videos. Yeah. I don't know, I think cat jump scares. Yeah, it's like cats. Yeah, it's just so cheap. As I was reading these examples, I was like, fuck, I use like all pretty kick ass examples. Yeah, these can be cool. I don't know if any cat jump scares are like nice, dude. That's true. Yeah, we love Jonesy. Sure. But is it is it like nice, dude? Or is it like I'll love that one slide? Yeah, fair. It's also tough when a movie is that old where it's like it wasn't as. Yeah, yeah. Trite back then. This week's episode is sponsored by Brooklyn Bedding. James and I were long overdue for a new mattress and we were so happy to have Brooklyn Bedding appear in our lives. A mattress is genuinely an important purchase and we have noticed such a difference in the time we've had our new one. 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This week's episode is sponsored by Nutraful. We see more pictures and videos of ourselves than ever and there's so much pressure to look perfect. We used to just feel the pressure for perfect hair from shampoo commercials, but now it's every time we open our phones. And I'm on camera all the time. I changed the tiniest thing and you guys notice it. Nutraful is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand and it helps prevent hair thinning, shedding and other hair issues. Over the long run, you can even start to see improved hair growth and more visible thickness. I have the Nutraful women's formula and along with generally taking better care of my hair and trying to fry it less with heat tools. I'm so excited to see my long term changes and it's not just for women. 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This one's pretty, this one's pretty bad. Yeah. Because just think about your everyday life. How often are you dropping and granted in a situation where there's higher stress, maybe you're more likely to kind of lose a hand-eye motor, motor coordination. Yeah. But yeah, this one's, it just feels real cheap. Like, I mean, for me, and I don't know if it's coming up at all. The randomly locked door is one of my hated ones when someone's running away from a killer and gets to a door and like, oh, it just happens to be locked. Yeah. And it's like, or if you're running and you fall and trip over nothing. It's like, all of these are just the most blatant examples of, oh, we need to make a suspense full, slow someone down. Yeah. It's a perfect little like script miracle to trap your character for long enough. I will say, pretty recently in Instagram, I've been scrolling around and there are people, there's like, I don't know if it's a challenge or what, but they'll have like employees at a workplace, like get a head start run from someone dressed as Michael Myers slowly walking towards them and they have to like unlock a door and get in and like lock it behind them. And a lot of the times that people fail, they don't drop the keys, but they have a hard time finding the right key or they just like can't put it in the whole. Oh, they give them a giant ring of keys. Yeah. Yeah. Something like that. Like, could you escape the killer at a horror movie? And a lot of times they do fail at doing that. I would actually get so scared doing that, even knowing it's not real, but just knowing, like, OK, I'm giving you this big ring of keys and I'm going to have someone dressed up as Michael walking towards you. I would actually freak myself out doing that. And that's the thing is like we from the comfort of our couch were like, this is dumb. They're dropping it. But like, if you're actually in that situation, it might be stressful enough to where you would realistically do it for sure. But the game's not. Is it realistic? The game is what's the worst cliche? I guess. Yeah. Yeah. But that judgment, a lot of it is what is going to take you out of the movie, at least for me. And I guess, you know, even if it is realistic, it still is going to kind of take me out of it. So what's it up against? Yeah. Or do we have do we have like examples? I feel like this one's so broad. It happens. I mean, it happens so much. I don't think any of these examples are really going to help. A lot of them are Halloween. OK. Halloween, the H2O, human centipede, it happens. Saw two, it happens. It's right after the needle pit. Oh, yeah, because he can't get Xavier. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is up against one of my favorite tropes. And I asked people online if they could guess what my favorite trope was. And I think Patreon subscribers especially would be able to guess. And I don't think I saw anyone guess at time of recording. And I'm disappointed in you all. Do you know what this is? Your favorite trope. This is the one that I get so fucking. Like I pop every time this happens. Little guys. No. Grussel, do you have any idea? I don't. I get so fucking stoked whenever this happens in a movie. And I pointed out every single time. I'm sure as soon as you say it, I'm going to know. Yeah. Yeah. We're going to the library. Oh, for microfil. We're going to look at microfiche. OK. I love it. I love it so much. This happens a lot. I love it. We just had Stranger Things 4. They were doing that, you know. Anytime you need to research something that's a couple of decades back. Yeah. The town's local lore. I love getting a lore dump through a bunch of newspaper. It's so good. Candyman. Doing some research. Candyman, that is an example where she's researching Cabrini Green, Silence of the Lambs, Clarice is researching. Pretty good movies. Pretty hot take. Pretty good movies there. The changeling George C. Scott's investigating his house. The ring Naomi Watts is going to the library. Yeah, good stuff. I just always think it looks cool. It's moody. It happens in some not so good movies, too. I forget what we were just watching where it happens. It was like Tarot or something. Oh, something. It was some weird random movie, but I still got really excited. It was something we were watching for a Patreon commentary track. While I was researching this trope, I found a video montage. Did you research it by going to the library and looking at a micro-fiche? Yeah, I looked at a micro-fiche of movies that do it. I found a video on YouTube by some guy that was just called Hot Chicks and Horror Movies looking at micro-fiche. It was a montage of women in horror looking at microfilm, and it was so cool. Nice. I was like, this guy gets it. I know. I want to task the editors with just like making compilations of all of these because they don't have anything to do. Oh, God. Yeah. That's a joke. They're so overloaded. Thank you, editors. I love you. So it's that against? Lost keys. Lost keys. Yeah, I think losing your keys is worse. Although when I was looking up the kind of library, side quest trope, plenty of people hate it, which is fair. It is a thing where it's an easy exposition dump. I can see how it's bothersome in terms of screenwriting or feeling like you're maybe getting spoonfed a little bit. Oh, it's definitely, yeah, a shortcut of exposition. I love it in terms of if a character solving a mystery and having a piece click into place. I love that kind of sequence. All right, but keys, keys, keys on Van Nuys. Next up, this is a similar one to some other scares on here, but I made it its own category. It's the friend scare fake out. Like your friend like, oh, it's me that like pranking you and it's a fake out. This is a weird one because it feels so common where it's like a friend sneaking up on someone else and they go, gotcha. But even Bella was having a hard time finding specific examples of this. And it feels like one where we've like collectively hallucinated it or something. I know it happens. But I was having a really hard time searching it. You know what I bet? I feel like this was very common in the post-screen way. Yes. Yes. The teen targeted kind of slashers. I just feel like for some reason I'm just like, was it an urban legend? I can't say for certain, but I feel like maybe yes or like a Valentine or like an I know because often those movies follow groups of friends. So you have a bunch of characters and you know, someone's on edge and then a friend's like, oh, yeah. So I feel like that's where we could find them. Yeah, that and just really low budget like slasher stuff is where I think that kind of happens. Like any scene where it's a bunch of teenagers in the woods, that's going to happen. Yeah. I can't think of any examples specifically of where that's going on. But that is up against one of my least favorite things or things that I'm sick of rather, bone cracking slash contortionism. Oh, like a monster, you know. Yeah. Usually women, I would say like 95% of the time it's like a woman whose limbs are moving in weird ways, probably in an exorcism movie. Oh, so oh, yeah, man. Those demons love contorting those bodies. They love doing back walkovers and you're like back bridges. And I mean, obviously the exorcist where she's crab walking down those stairs. Got old. Oh, yes. Yeah. I mean, that scene is great. There's exceptions to all of these. There was a movie we saw recently, which I shall name. That's for another episode that did it. And I just was getting so annoyed by it. Stay tuned for more of that. I just, I don't know. I just never really find it that scary. It just, I'm always just very aware of, oh, they hired a circus performer for this part, you know, because it always feels a little samey to me. I feel like Smile 2 did a pretty good job with people, but that was like a group of people. Yes, that's what made it so interesting. And the smile. And the smile. Yeah. That made it scary. Obsession, which is coming out, also has a character moving in an unnatural way, but I don't know how much of the bone. But like, you have to find a unique, unnatural way. This is not woman in a dirty white dress with long hair going. Yeah. Which I just, stop it. Stop. Like, we're done. It was good when the ring did it how many years ago. Yeah. Like, do something else. Okay. I just don't ever really, unless you're doing a good, like a cool spin on it. Like, yeah, like you said, Smile 2. I just, I'm kind of over it. It feels easy to me. I don't know. I feel like I can kind of see through what's being done there. Again, I just am always, I can always see the like, and yeah, we hired a contortionist. She does, she's a circus performer. And yeah, we got her in for the scene and she did a great job kind of thing. I can just, I just, when I see stuff like that happening, the behind the scenes instantly starts playing in my head. But if you do something interesting with it, then that doesn't take me out of the story, I guess. Anyway, I just find it kind of boring. And what's it going up against? It's going up against the friend scare fake out. What do you think? I don't love either of these. Yeah. Yeah. You know what? Friend scares like cheap and easy. Bone cracking feels a little more tryhardy. And I might go with that as the worst trope. Because I feel like more weight is being put on it to be scary. Yes. Friend scare is like, oh, we were just fucking around. It's a quick little thing. But like the bone cracking is like, isn't this scary? Isn't this fucked up? So I might go with that as the worst trope because even the filmmakers know the friend scare is just a throwaway thing. Yeah. I feel like you said it happens in exorcism movies and any kind of possessed or infected movie where it's like just a shorthand to show like, oh, there's something wrong with them. There's some real wrong with this chick. We got to call the exorcist. Yeah. And exorcism movies just, we don't, neither of us really. They got to be the bottom for me for the specific subgenre. If Russell Crowe is not there riding a tiny scooter and drinking it espresso, then what are we doing here? Yeah. I think I might agree with you. It's just a pet peeve of mine. And yes. All right. Last match. Oh, another movie that did it well. Uh, with Sarah. Oh, the bone woman. That movie's bone cracking. Uh, that's just all bone cracking. Still, I just have a slight vendetta against that movie because the lead actress took best actor at the prime ribs over Tobin Bell for saw X. And I just, that's tough. Cause that was when we opened it to a panel. I just want Tobin Bell to get it. I know. That was a tough year. That was a tough year. Tough year. Next up, this is our last in our initial round. Next up is the power going out. Oh, right. It in. That's it. That's pretty. That's pretty bad. I mean, do I need to read examples of it or sure hit us? What are you? I can't even find it. I wish I had these in a fucking order. Here we go. Often from weather, but I mean, hey, uh, this is an example where it's so interesting because these tropes are all ones where we're like, Oh, fuck, I fucking hate this. But then I look at the examples and they're all really good movies. Aliens, uh, when the xenomorphs are preparing to attack, they cut the building's power. Um, in the fog during the attack on the weather station, the ghost fog causes the building's power to get cut. Um, in jaws during the nighttime attack on the boat that causes the power to get cut and in nope, the UFO or Jean jacket messes with the power. So that always causes sure. But like you said, those are all really good examples and there's so many words. But there are many bad examples. Power goes out. Yeah. Whether due to weather or the killer is like finds the giant power switch on the outside of the button or outside of the building and just turns it off. Or if you're Jason, you throw someone into a circuit board and that usually cuts it out. Yeah. That is going up against consulting an expert slash survivor. So going in and talking to either a professor or paranormal expert or feels very broad because would it include for instance, paranormal activity, bringing that guy to the house? But would it also include like in smile her visiting the guy in jail because he has experienced the curse and survived it? I'm thinking more. This is the person who if the person is giving a giant, um, either exposition dump or they're the person who knows, okay, here's how you deal with this. That like that's the person is this Hannibal and Van Helsing. They're both Anthony Hopkins. I'm realizing, but yeah, you know, like would you include that kind of thing? Because like this, this to me feels kind of a little bit like the Arbinger where like this is like storytelling. Yeah. Like does Tanjina count? Is that what you're thinking or Tanjina? This is Lynn Shay in most things. In most things that person. Okay. Where they're like, here's how you deal with. Yeah. I mean, I think we got to go with power outage because again, similar to Harbinger, this is a true and I love a weird expert. Yeah. It's more fun to play around with this one, especially if they're kind of kooky. Yeah. Another great opportunity for a character actor. Exactly. Yeah. Often older woman, arguably Quint. Yeah. In Jaws. Make me do that. Yeah. Power outage. Okay. We're on to our next round and that's going to be the person that no one believes until it's maybe too late either for people to be saved or too late in the movie and we're all annoyed versus everyone. Let's split up. Everyone let's split up. Yeah. I think so. That felt definitive. I mean, again, there's so many reasons why you would not believe someone who says, hey, these leather clad BDSM demons from hell have come with a puzzle box and they have my uncle in hell and I have to go save him. I'm like, okay, let's get you some help as opposed to let's split up. It's real cheap and rarely justified. What have you split up because one of you is injured and one of you has to take care of that person. You're like, go get running. Get help. You know how to jump start a car. Arguably, that's a different trope. That's leave me and save yourself. Okay. I think that's a different thing. It's arguable. It might be included, but in any case, as we said, we can always find good examples of these. I think there are more justifiable reasons for someone to not be believed of what they're saying in a horror movie as opposed to splitting up in a dangerous situation, which is what I think is most of these occasions. Okay. I think splitting up is worse. Splitting up. It feels too scooby-doo. It is. I mean, it's scooby-doo. There's less narratively interesting reasons for it too, whereas someone not being believed, again, that's such a cornerstone of horror. I feel like often with the not being believed, the person not being believed either as a past with substance abuse or mental health issues or something. Smile. Smile one and smile two. Yeah. Oh, man. You have both of those. Both of those. You just described both of those movies, which is why they're so fucking good. Okay. So, yeah, the not being believed can feed into the themes of the film. Okay. Yeah. All right. Then we have the Mirror Jump Scare versus Creepy Crayon Drawings or Creepy Kid Drawings. This is tough because I know which one I hate more and it's Creepy Kid Drawings. I know you hate those Creepy Kid Drawings. They're just not scary. And every time I see them, I just get... I think if we want to be consistent, which we aren't always with these, but we could apply the same logic of the friend jump scare versus the creaky bones in that the Creepy Kid Drawings often have to hold more weight as a scary thing as opposed to the Mirror Jump Scare, which is just a quick little like, oh, we got you moving on. Yes. Because as soon as a movie introduces the Creepy Drawings, I'm like, fuck, we're hanging so much of this movie on this because especially if it gets introduced early on, I'm already disappointed that this... If this is what the movie is wanting me to find scary, what else is the movie thinking I'm going to find scary? That's not... Yes. I'm already just thinking I'm not going to be on the same wavelength here. Yeah, we're not calibrated to the same spookiness, creepiness thing. Yes. Unless it's a campy... Like Orphan is a really fun send up of that because she's not a fucking kid. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Creepy Kid Drawing. Okay. We've got the Cat Jump Scare versus Dropping Your Keys. This is hard. Yeah, but based on those Instagram videos I saw, I'm going to say Cat Jump Scare since... Oh, because the keys... You might reasonably lose focus. I think I'm going to make the same argument you've made twice previously though, which I think is a very good argument. There's more scare weight on dropping your keys. I don't think there is. It's a minor speed bump in a chase scene that just is used to slow someone down. versus the Cat Jump Scare, which is just to have a scare in that moment. I don't think the keys is a scare. It's more of just an obstacle, which again, I feel it's the equivalent to the jump scare in the mirror or the cat in that it's just a quick little obstacle to slow them down enough for the killer to get close and then you resolve that obstacle move on. I just think out of both of these, I'm less likely to go, oh, come on. I see the keys happen versus the cat. Yes. Cat is oftentimes a cat that hasn't been seen before. He's just getting thrown at the cat. It's like, come on, what are we doing? Yeah, I'd say cat for that. Yeah, yeah. Okay, then we've got cracking bones slash contortionism versus the power going out. That's tough. I think the power going out is the cheaper. You think it's cheaper? Yeah. Even if it's motivated, it's raining out or... Yeah, because how often does... Or the killer cuts the power? How easy is it to cut the power to a building from the outside? Oh, no, I'm not a freak. I've never thought about it. You've never thought about just going to the neighbor's house and cut their power. Just trying to? Yeah. I mean, in theory, there's one big line that goes into the house. Yeah, but how do you cut that safely? I was about to say, how do you do it without electricity? Is there a horror movie where the power goes out and they're all scared, but then nothing happens and the next morning they find an electric human ass feeler? They just find it a good day. That'd be very good. Dude, that'd be so funny. And then the rest of the movie is them... Who killed this guy? Realizing yet them trying not to be framed. I mean, that's almost bodies, bodies, bodies. That's almost bodies, bodies, bodies, bodies, bodies. Yeah. Oh, that's still very good. Yeah. Or they're like, why was this person after us? Yeah. That's so stupid. Yeah, I'd still say, I know you don't like the body control, but I can think of a few occasions where it was kind of creepy, I guess. Nothing I can vocalize right now. It's just nebulously in my head as like, oh, yeah. Yeah. I just think what is bad is really bad. And it's the same thing as the creepy drawings thing to me where when a movie uses it and is like, isn't this so fucking scary? I'm like, oh, no. Is the like, what else is this movie thinking is scary? Like, I'm just not on the same. That's true. I'm not I'm not going to vibe with the rest of this. What do you think, Gressel? I think the power is the is the worst cliche because it's also a a a quick cheat to make things scarier because it's now it's dark. Yeah, that's true. So it's the same kind of logic of this is a quick way to show that something's wrong as the contortionist, but it's so much broader because it's just now it's dark. So it's scary or, you know, now we don't have power. So things are, you know, harder. It's also here. I'll throw this in there. I think there are many times where the power goes out and then someone goes to use the phone and it's dead, even though landlines would landlines would work. So I'm just going to throw that in there as a little bonus of like why this trope is bad. Yeah, because I've seen, yeah, the the knock on effects of that. Yeah, I guess the power. I feel like because you two seem to be leaning more. I think I'm leaning more. OK, or you'll have plenty of commenters being like Chelsea was right. The body contortions worse. OK, you'll be you'll be vindicated in the comments. Final four. OK. Final four. We've got let's split up versus creepy crayon drawings. OK, I gotta go with let's split up. I understand the group, but like it's just so it has to be one of the most referenced and thought of cliches when people criticize horror movies for being cheap and dumb. I mean, this is up there with like going upstairs. Yeah, that's true. In terms of what's made its way to popular culture and just. So like, even if you don't watch horror movies, you know that in a horror movie, people will split up and that will lead to their deaths. And so when you actually see it in a movie, you're like, really? We're doing this. I got to say, let's split up, dude. Man, it's like I. Yes, it sucks. But it just I'm just so much more personally annoyed by those stupid drawings. Hey, being a semi finalist, nothing. I know, I know. Just what a bummer. OK. I mean, like this is one of the horror cliches. I know. Let's split up. OK. Let's split up. Then we've got the can't jump scare versus the power going out. That's tough. These two live together. Yeah, these two fucking room together, man, they split rent. Heavy hitters. Damn. Heavy hitters. I think cat jump scares worse. I think cat's worse because it's so fucking random. Yeah, there's no need for it. Whereas, you know, with the with the power, you often need to get it dark or whatever, and it'll lead to more scares. Cats just it just there's no need for it. You don't have to have it. I think I agree with you. OK, the power being out can lead to cool moments. Yeah. And it forces your characters to act a bit more desperately, which can lead to fun things, you know, forces them to maybe get out of the house or, I don't know. We're just making up reasoning. We're just making stuff up. That's all these are. We're thinking cat. We're just like voters, dude. We just we already know how we feel and then we just justify it to ourselves after the fact. Yeah. That's what everyone does. So cat. Cat. Yeah. OK. And the final two, let's split up versus cat jump scare. Who? That's that's tough. That's tough. One of these has a lasting impact on the trajectory of the plot. And one of these is just a dumb thing that pisses you off for a little bit. I think that's it, though. I think that just seals it like as as ubiquitous as let's split up is the scooby-dooness of it, the spread into broader pop culture. You get you've made the argument the whole time. The cat serves no purpose. But I would say. That splitting up often leads to deaths and can be like, oh, no, I like this character. But because they acted in such an unrealistic way, now they're going to get killed and removed from the movie. And that's upsetting. Do you think splitting up can go hand in hand with a thing that also pisses people off and was something that I saw people argue was a trope and I wasn't sure whether or not to include or I didn't really think about including, but like characters acting stupid or just making dumb decisions. Yeah, like it is a specific. Characters behaving dumber than they actually are. Yeah, for sure. Which I think is like, again, a thing that people who don't like horror movies will cite as a reason they don't like them. It gives horror a bad name. You know, yeah, it's a split up so that they can get killed. That's an interesting argument to make in the championship. Yeah, yeah. So I lean towards let's split up. I think cat jumpscares a very worthy opponent. I'm leaning that way too, especially because let's split up tends to be the type of horror movie that I find really boring. Like a like a paint by numbers slasher. When you're like, OK, we all split up. Now I have to watch them all get killed one by one. Mid 80s. Like like to mid 80s slashers or even like that weird run of like 2000s slash where they're just like. Random ones that no one really thinks about anymore where they're all kind of samey and they do the let's split up and you just got to watch the same shit play out over like let's split up is what contributes to me. To the movie being really boring in like that last stretch. OK, I think we're going with let's I think let's split up as the worst horror trope worst horror trope according to us according to the three of us. What do you all think? Maybe we're totally off here. But I think it's a solid bad horror trope. Oh, yeah, for sure. Let us know if you think one of the ones that we talked about deserves it more or one of the ones that we didn't talk about. I mean, we talked about a few that weren't in the bracket like the shining yes references or I think this one's got a lot going for it. It's like it's one that's parodied in parody films. Yeah, it's one that people who are just casual horror fans understand and also dislike about horror films for better. And it's in like every parody like in the blackening. Yes, we have to. Like, don't say it. Don't say it. We have to split up. And like it's fun when movies find a fun way to do it. Yeah, cabin in the woods or the blackening. It's for me a trope that makes movies worse to watch. Yeah, just feels like such a shortcut in the writing process, whereas the cat jump scare is like a shortcut in the filming and editing process, you know, just like a quick little adrenaline burst. I am more upset by shortcuts in writing because like just try a little harder, you know, I know it's not easy. Writing is fucking hard and to make things pan out in an interesting way that is still realistic, very difficult. But try, keep trying. Yeah. Also, arguably, let's split up as a gateway to more tropes happening. It's like a parent of other tropes. Yeah, yeah, a group of people isn't going to get scared by a cat. Yeah. And let's split up is then two characters can have Saxon get killed. The air trope. Yes, it is. It really is. All right. Yeah, cool. I'm happy. I'm yeah. Results. OK. I'm feeling good about that. But yeah, maybe you disagree. Let us know in the comments. This was fun. This was fun. We did this now because it's March, but the the scream episode that we hadn't planned on doing the scream seven episode kind of threw off the schedule. And so we to get back on the regularly planned schedule with like sponsors and everything, we will have an episode for you next week. Yeah. Instead of a gap week. Yes. And next week, we'll be talking about South by Southwest and all the movies we saw. And so like it's kind of a preview of upcoming horror movies, some that are coming out imminently, others that maybe you who knows. Yeah, like distribution yet, but we'll let you know what to look forward to and what you can miss. Most things look forward to. Yes. Great festival. And we'll just talk about the festival in general, because it was our first like big festival besides Overlook. And I can't wait to talk about it, which we're going to do in like five minutes after I change my shirt and grab. Yeah, there's a movie we saw that's like possible movie of the year. Oh, yeah. Unless something crazy comes along and knocks it out of its number one spot. This movie fucked me up. We're screaming in the theater. I'm I'm I don't know. Oh, and we'll talk about the movie I'm in because that premiered at South by Southwest. It's grind. Yes. It's the movie she's talking about. It's like, yeah, that number one is very, very good. No, it's fun. It's a fun movie. Well, you hear all about next week on our lightning round slash South by Southwest review episode. But until then, I'm James. I'm Chelsea. That's Gressel. And this has been the Dead Meat podcast. Change my shirt and get cope.