Spiderman (2002)

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This is a great way to pinpoint the things you got to work on. I personally believe the more info you have, the better off your life is going to be and that's why True Diagnostic is so great. Our listeners can get 20% off at TrueDiagnostic.com using code confused at checkout. That's TrueDiagnostic.com. Use code confused for 20% off today. Choose True Age, True Health or the Combo Kit as a one time purchase or subscription. Do you miss hanging out in your bedroom with your besties flipping through magazines and talking about pop culture? Well, lucky for you. We're your best friends now. My name is Troy and I'm Dara. On our podcast, What's Your Issue, we dissect pop culture magazine articles from various decades and genres. So every Thursday, the sleepovers at our house. Bring your old magazines, make sure to pack a sleeping bag and whatever you can swipe from your parents' liquor cabinet. Well, hello and welcome to the Confused Breakfast podcast. Do you remember the pure joy of a trip to the video rental store as a kid? Sure, it's hard to beat the ease and the convenience of the modern streaming era, but the experience of a Friday night trip to Blockbuster to make the big and sometimes tough decision of what movie was coming home with you was a truly magical experience. We're all part of the last generation that knows the joy of the search, the snap of the plastic clamshell. We're here to revisit the movies that shaped us and defined our childhoods. My name is Mike Schulte. Joining me as always, two dudes who want to take this entire podcast back to formula. Sean Pryor, nation events. How the heck are you? That's my formula. Yeah, man. Yeah. Back to formula. I'll take you back to formula. I'm just going to say it right now. William Defoe is born to play every character he's ever played. It's unreal. Yeah. Why did they make William Defoe wear a mask in this movie? He wanted to. We'll get there. Now, I'll talk about it. We'll get there. Well, boys, today's movie is 2002's Spider-Man. We're going to do a scene by scene deep dive analysis on the entire movie. But first, we're going to talk nostalgia, fun facts and reviews to set the stage. Sean, tell us the first time you saw this movie, what your memories were and your rating is was believe I saw this in the theaters with my friend, Jordan, who we were definitely not gay together. I don't know if any of that conversation made it into this. That's not contextually informative at all. So that's fine. We watched a lot of movies together. And we went to the theaters for this one. I remember seeing the trailer for this and you can't see it anymore, but it was the Twin Towers. So I was very intrigued and just super excited. Never really read any of the comics, didn't really give a hell, but definitely a fan of adventure, fun comic book movies. So yeah, I would give this a six. Six, AJ. Saw it in theaters. This is my Spider-Man. This is everything to me that started, I don't know, my love for just superhero movies in general, I guess. And how amazing they are compared to just whatever other kind of crap might be out there. No, like Toby McGuire's Spider-Man was like, just became like my idea of Spider-Man. I watched a lot of the cartoons. I remember watching this in theaters. I remember being enthralled with it. And the stuff that they were doing with this movie, it seemed like, was just insane. And I think it's one of the best origin stories of all time when we're talking about movies. So that being said, I'm going to go ahead and give this an old 9.3. Whoa, 9.3. I was never really a big Spider-Man guy. I watched it because this was definitely a cultural event. I think we went to the theaters maybe, but just overall, Spider-Man was not like my superhero that I really wanted to go to. So it was like, it was okay. Whatever. Six. I like how Sean's like, it was pretty good. Six. I'm like, it wasn't that great. Six. I know how to write movies. It was a six out of six to me back then. I know there was a ten. We got executive producer Dylan Mick with us today. He says, at the time this came out, I was certainly excited for it. I think in part because the marketing for this thing was everywhere. I did really enjoy the animated Spider-Man growing up, but the web slinger wasn't at the top of my list of favorite superheroes. I liked him plenty, but would have been more excited for an Iron Man, Thor or Deadpool. The movie delivered in that it was a fine origin story and definitely felt like the start of a bigger world of superhero blockbusters. Also, there were multiple songs on the soundtrack that I actually still really enjoyed. Yes, the Nickelback and Guy from Saliva song was awesome. You're not wrong. Albeit ridiculous then and it remains awesome and maybe a little more ridiculous now. Nostalgic 6.2 as a group. We're going to be a 6.88. Nostalgically, that's going to fall all by itself in number 129 space. We think Ghostbusters is better nostalgically, but we think this is better than a League of their own nostalgically. Well, yeah. For girls. Well, maybe I liked girl movies back then. Okay. Well, next we're going to go to Sean. I want to know all the important details of the movie on this thing. What do you got, dude? Produced by Ian Bryce, who we all went to high school with and Laura Ziskin, written by David Kep, a cinematography by Don Burgess. He's been on the show a lot. Music by Danny Elfman. He's also been on the show a lot. Elfman, fan of the show. Edited by Arthur Coburn and Bob Morowski, who once we cover the second one, I think both won best editing that year. Directed by Sam Raimi. Cast, tell me who I are. Chris Kirsten Dunn's, Fulham Defoe, James Franco, Cliff Robertson, Rosemary Harris, J.K. Simmons, Joe Mangliano, Bill Nunn, Stanley Anderson, Michael Papa John, fun. Ted Raimi, Elizabeth Banks, Randy Savage, Macy Gray, and Bruce Campbell. As we'll see, and as many of these big IPs have, this movie is a bit bi-cipital in nature. Since development for a film adaptation began for Spider-Man in 1975, there was a very rich history on how this movie was almost made and who almost made it, including Stan Lee writing a script for Roger Corman. Coralco Pictures buying the rights and signing Tobin McGuire into direct. Coralco did not get Spider-Man whatsoever. They thought he was a wolf-like character and they were going to have Peter Parker play a photographer who gets bit by Spider and turns into a giant tarantula. Oh, yeah, they were just going to go full exploitation weirdo on this. Joe Zito was hired as director, but James Cameron was hired as director. John Cusack was to play Spider-Man. Tom Cruise is going to play Spider-Man. It's a whole history on this. It's pretty fun to read about, so just do your own stuff. But it took a lot to get to the point of Spider-Man or of Sony buying the rights to Spider-Man from Coralco and start developing something that would work. When James Cameron was on board, he wrote a script that had Peter Parker shoot his webbing organically as opposed to inventing some device that allows him to do it. This stayed in every draft of the script and when writer David Kep was hired, it would be no different, keeping some parts word for word from Cameron's script. Sam Raimi was tapped to helm the film and being a giant fan of the comics, this would be a dream project, but was sure he wasn't going to get the job because of his reputation as a schlocky horror film director. Schlocky. His pitch to the studio lasted an hour and his sheer passion is what got him hired. Wes Bentley, Jude Law, Freddie Prince Jr., Heath Ledger, Zach, Braff. I corrected this up to Bradford on here. Even McGregor, Chris O'Donnell, basically any young skinny actor at the time was considered for Peter Parker. Any young whites skinny actor. However, Tony McGuire was Sam Raimi's first choice. Of course, the studio was hesitant, but were impressed by McGuire's audition. Shocking how actors are actors and the director's instinct was correct, once again, fucking studios. John Malkovich, Billy Bob Thornton and Nick Cage were considered for Norman Osborn, but turned it down. William Defoe was very interested in the role, but again, of course, had to convince the studio. They sent a casting director to where he was staying at the time and filmed an audition. They liked it, but liked the prospect of those other actors a little bit more. Defoe fought for the role and once he got it, he owned it, insisting to Sam Raimi that whenever you see the Green Goblin, it should be Defoe behind the mask. Mina Savari, Alicia Witt and Kate Hudson were considered for Mary Jane and Elizabeth Banks audition, but was considered a little too old so they cast her as Miss Brant instead. Here's what's done, Scott, the role of Mary Jane. Filming began on various sound stages in California and various locations around New York in January 2001. Of course, after the September 11 attacks, some scenes had to be reshot without the Twin Towers involved. Some costumes were stolen from set and the studio offered $25,000 reward. They were eventually found and security guard was arrested for the theft. What a dick. Yeah, weird. Spider-Man was released on May 3, 2002 and on a budget of $139 million. The film made $826.8 million at the box office. It spawned two more sequels and was nominated for two Oscars including Best Sound and Best Visual Effects, losing to Chicago for Sound and the Two Towers for Visual Effects, but did take home Best Kiss at the 2003 MTV Movie Awards. Thank God. So Spider-Man comes out in 2002 and grosses $826 million. It's still the third highest grossing movie of that year. Chamber of Secrets, $879 and Two Towers, $923. But it was the first film to ever gross $100 million in its opening weekend alone at the box office. At the time, no movie had done so, even adjusted for inflation. And it entered the Guinness Book of World Records as having the highest box office gross in a single day, taking $43.6 million on the second day of its release. Just quickly, do you guys remember all the marketing for this movie? Kind of. It was fucking crazy and awesome. And I missed the times when there was kids snack movie tie-ins like the Pop Tarts for Spider-Man. Yeah. Or like Blue and they had the webbing kind of system all over. I remember that. Those are so awesome. Burger King cups and everything. I just remember those commercials just being like, be sure to stop in this Friday for Spider-Man. It's like, but it's a Burger King commercial. Yeah. And it's like, get the Spider-Man combo pack. It's like, okay, great. I just, I do. I miss it being everywhere. It lives rent free in my brain. And what do we have now? Just like popcorn buckets at the movie theater, which are cool, but it's just like, yeah, it's not the same, man. I don't know. Yeah, I get it. Well, up next, we got to go to AJ. We need to know the ratings and reviews from fans and critics alike. What do you got, dude? Hey, Frick Joe, you go with nowhere. I've got you for three minutes. Three minutes of the tomato meter. All right. Clock's running. Three minutes. Let's go. Oh, shit. Oh, I have a time limit. I forgot. Oh, Jesus. I'm not even prepared. 90% could have just gone off with the last one to certified fresh. Not as good as Men in Black, but better than the Matrix for the critics. Just as good of a movie as After Hours. Correct. Nope. So I just wanted you to know that. Nope. Critics are good. Critics definitely got it right. The audience is came in at 67%. A little bit of a difference there. 7.4 on IMDB. Not as good as The Crow, but better than Face Off. I like that. That's fun. I like that. Seems like a good triple feature. Okay. Let's see. Dana Stevens, The New York Times, gave it an 80 out of 100. Spider-Man, while hardly immune to these vices, is like Mr. McGuire, disarmingly likable and touching in unexpected ways. Kenneth Turan gave it a 70 out of 100. Los Angeles Times, Spider-Man may look like an action comic come to life, but its best feature is its romance, Comic Heart. It's that cartoon movie, and it's that rare cartoon movie in which the villain is less involving than the actual love story. Roger Ebert, 63 out of 100. Chicago Sun-Times, the origin story is well told and the characters will not disappoint anyone who values the original comic books. It's in the action scenes that the things fall apart. Interesting. I'm not going to go see it now. I'm not going to go see it either. Yeah, let's just stop. Guys, Spider-Man over on Letterbox had, we had some great reviews in here, some great points to be made. First and foremost, four stars. Uncle Ben would be alive if pro-wrestling had a union. Wow. So I think that's something we really need to take stock in. Now like free Lansing wrestlers. Yeah, exactly. This weird New York wrestling league that they're talking about, I don't know, seems underground. Let's see. Stop on by, try and beat Macho Man. What the fuck is going on, right? There's an ad for this. This is like in the penny ad. Someone paid money to take an ad out in the paper. Let's see. Four stars. I had to beat an old lady with a stick to get these cranberries. That's a great quote from the movie. Yeah, thanks. I both adore and detest how this now plays like a non-stop meme compilation. It does. Tomi McGuire's acting in this gives off the same energy as me disassociating in the middle of a conversation and then pretending I understood everything. When Mike talks to me about realty. Well here, escrow. I don't know. Are you a realtor? I can't care. Are you a broker, Mike? Realtor? No, not. Okay. That is no disrespect. The upside down kiss means absolutely everything to me. How did nobody at Peter's school realize that he's Spider-Man after they literally saw I'm dragging around a tray by a web? Yeah. Don't worry about it. Don't worry about that. Spider-Man should call people gay again in like the good old days. Wow. Last but not least, the film where a teenager's life changes when he realizes that he can produce white sticky liquid from his body. Hell yeah. I mean, it's all over. It's all over his room. We'll get there. On my way here today, fellas, my wife asked me why I was so excited to be reviewing this movie. I said, the great thing about Spider-Man is when you look at the movie on screen and it's looking back at you, everything feels not quite normal because you feel stronger and weaker at the same time. You feel excited and at the same time terrified. The truth is you don't know what you feel except you know what kind of man you want to be. It's as if you've reached the unreachable and you weren't ready for it. She said, you're a strange man. I said, here we go. Scene one. Peter Barker lives in New York City. He's a constantly bullied kid at school and is in love with Mary Jane Watson. During a school field trip to a genetics lab, Peter's bitten by a genetically engineered spider. That night, he becomes violently ill only to wake up the next morning, transform stronger, faster and no longer needing glasses. Meanwhile, Norman Osborn, head of Oscorp tests an unstable performance enhancing formula on himself, which grants him power but fractures his mind. Again, two weeks ago, I'm going to bring up the first thing that I thought of when this movie started is the score by Danny Elfman. When superhero movie scores felt deservedly so unfathomable, like pick out any of the new Marvel movie scores right now and like, is that the Captain America theme or is that the Iron Man theme or is that the new Spider-Man theme? I don't fucking know. I can't pick them out. You can pick this out no matter what. Like, it feels it feels like the movie. Those scores and those movies just don't, they feel like vanilla compared to this. Yeah. Like, this is outstanding. This is Danny Elfman, one of the greatest composers of our time. That is Suno. Yeah, you know, you're right. You're right. Yeah. I really like the Avengers score actually. It's pretty great. Okay. I didn't recognize it. Yeah, it makes sense. No, I do want to say like, yes, the music comes in and it's just it's that it's very classic Danny Elfman, but we don't need three minutes and 23 seconds of this intro. This is one of the worst intros I've ever seen in my entire life. It's not speed because it's speed is four minutes of just elevators. This is three minutes of like real bad, real bad spider webs and terrible fonts. Excuse me, elevators and I'm just like, yeah, that's speed. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, but they're just elevators. This, like, guys bring, can we just grow up and just start a movie and we'll worry about credits later? Can we can we just grow up and just start the movie? So much of the so much of the over the narrative of like from Peter Parker said, who am I? It's like, it's like, well, my story, it's like, you could have done that. Wouldn't that have been awesome? A minute and a half ago. Don't worry. And then we could have just like kicked right in to him like chasing a bus or you know what I mean? Like, so that's like, that's my only, it's probably one of my biggest gripes, I think, so far, other than the fact that it just basically leaves a bunch of time for Danny Elfman's score. Yeah, that's it. That's it. And like, I, I understand that argument of like, just start a movie. I can't, I can't like say it's better either way, but I just prefer, I guess, like when a movie is just like, let's take some, take some time. It's not because it's not like I like to read the credits. I do though, but it's not like for that reason, I just like to like kind of get the vibe of a movie. You know how like, you know how you like get in your car and you drive 20 minutes to the Marcus theater and then you spend 20 minutes waiting for them to get a beer for you because it always blows the tapper and then you spend 20 minutes waiting in line for popcorn. So we're at an hour now and then you get in your seat and there's 47 minutes of trailers. The last thing I need after almost two hours of waiting is another three minutes of like directed by Sam Rae. I fucking know. Finally you recline and then you can't adjust. Yeah, you can't, yeah, you can't get back to an actual comfortable position. Here's an idea. Show me Kirsten Dunst's boobies, please. Am I wrong? Is that the reason that every fucking kid watched this movie when it came out? Mike just wanted to be to play Spider-Man in his room while watching Spider-Man. This story is like any other great story. It's about a girl. I mean like I had an, I think I like was by myself in the basement. I was kind of just sitting there and I just went, Jesus, like I audibly said, what the fuck when she came on screen? I forgot how hot she was in this movie and this isn't even her hottest scene. No. Is it other people that I know who buck against Kirsten Dunst? Might be. I think I've said on the show before, I'm a huge fan of Kirsten Dunst. Huge. I think, I mean she has her moments. Don't get me wrong. Like there are some times where I'm just like, and they might happen honestly in the sequels more so than in this one, but in this one, I think she comes out like really, really good. And comes out as just a very, very great Mary Jane. Yeah. You know, like I think she, I think she fit this character. And that's the other thing is like, even when it comes down to like James Franco, I think the movie is cast very well. I do too. I think it's, I think they really nailed it. I think he's good in this. Yeah. Yeah. And I agree with Kirsten Dunst too. Like they, unfortunately, the writing is very good as far as like, especially we'll get to later, them like talking in between the fences and their houses and taking the trash or whatever. Great scene. I love that scene. They do reduce her to just screaming. Yeah. The rest of the movie. Well, it's kind of annoying. It's, it really is kind of annoying. But I mean, you have to have that, I guess. Like you could argue that, but look, this is a superhero movie. It's a man superhero. This is a Spider Woman. There ain't no, there ain't no female superheroes. Get out of here with that shit. Right? Right? Right? Oh, damn it, man. I'm something of a scientist myself. Oh, God. 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Yeah, like where the nerds won't even let him sit. It's like really? That first girl who says it's don't even think about it. It's like fuck off, move over. It's like just move. Just move. Like what are you talking about? It looks like a movie star. Yeah, exactly. She's like don't bother. He's like, I wasn't. You're the biggest nerd in our fucking school. Yeah, I don't need it. Even more than me. You take pictures of shit. You're in the fucking front seat, nerd. They'll forget about me getting on the bus here. They're never going to forget about the time you accidentally pooped your pants in eighth grade. People don't forget. People don't forget. First, before we move on, can we just do like give your best of that meme face for my sake so I can make memes out of our faces? Wait, you want to do it right now? Of the, I'm something of a scientist. Oh, I don't remember that. I'm something of a scientist. He's just like, that's not the one I was thinking of. I'm something of a scientist myself. No dude. I don't remember. Just do your best one. Perfect. You can move on now. Thanks, man. I won't talk for 20 minutes. The one thing I was getting at is the one of the worst things ever captured on film here is that there's nothing worse than thinking somebody's waving at you. Oh, dude. It's, it's maybe one of the most painful moments in a person's life of, especially if it's somebody you like. That is a painful moment on screen. That sucks. And it's not represented well on film. It's very particular and they like, they kind of got it right here. You know what I mean? You're right though. It's just, it's just one of the worst things anybody could ever go through it like that and raw tiras or something. You like, you got to commit. You're like, well, I'm going to wave back. How the hell are you? Hey, hey, what's up? Holy sh. Like, well, people seeing this is like, oh, she walks right by you. Like, oh, fuck me. Okay. And then, you know, that's the other problem is that they don't, they don't actually see until you've made the mistake. You know, so it's like, all they know about you is this mistake. Yeah. And then like, what are you doing? Who are you waving at? Do you have friends? I'm not even going to explain this to you. I don't, I was waving at them. It's like, so I have a, I think I, I want to do it already. I need punchable face already. Oh yeah? Yeah. Hit it. If we were on a train to go punch a face, I'm on board. That's what I'm talking about. Dude, it's this micromanaging teacher, professor teacher. That's my lovable face, man. That's my lovable face. He's great. Of course it is. Of course it is. It's simple task. Follow the fucking rules. I just need to know your movie joys for fucking January. He just pops in. Don't have it. What are we going to do? Every fucking time like they're having a conversation, he just pops in. He's just like, you were talking during that time. Fucking teacher's complex. They're simple fucking rules. It's like, if anyone else talks, I'll tell you right now, you're failing this. You're going to get into Mary. I love that guy. It's just like, he just floats in just don't fucking talk. It's like, it's like, just calm down. All right. We're talking about the subject matter at hand. Teach. I didn't know that. It's like, for God's sakes, it's my punchable. Is that yours? I'm going to go general, Slocum. He does get it pretty good, but I want to punch him first. Mine's a bit of a tough one here. Mine is the four Bonesaw girls. I hate them so much. The fact that they have microphones and that we think that what they're saying needs to be pumped through the sound system wrestling match. No, it's important. Fuck those. Just being misogynist. No, they're beautiful. They are very hot. Oh yeah. No, that's not helping your case. Okay, wait, this never mind. No, they're stupid. Okay, here, wait, wait, wait, let's get back on track. Okay, okay, man. Fuck this dude named flash. Yeah, flash bandicoot. Why is his name flash? Is it really flash? It's Magic Mike. Yeah, it's flash something. That is the bully's name in the comics and everything. You can't have a comic book movie where someone is named flash. Wait, so you're not allowed to do this. Stanley wrote him as like an ancillary bully named flash. Yes, you can't do that. And there are comic book, there are timelines and comic book stories and stuff where flash actually he has his own superhero or like kind of anti hero storylines. Wait, because flash is a DC. Yeah, but it just well, so I'm saying but this is yeah, I can't remember his last name. No one's name is flash. Yeah, you don't call him. It's do that's what you're saying. Okay, this guy, this guy looks like he listens to just a lot of huba stank. So you know, a lot of fucking huba stank. God smack. This right now, right now, if he were to pop on headphones on this bus, it'd be voodoo. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He's like, well, kid, he's got his arm around like Mary Jane's just like, we're gonna watch a new episode of fear today. She could barely even sit in that fucking entire school bench school bus bench because he's just like, man, whatever. I don't even care if this bus crashes. As long as I make out with MJ, I don't care. Continuing the trope of like 30 year old dudes playing high school. Yeah. This guy just come on. Let's go this fucking nerd city over here where we go to fucking look at science crap. Also, it must be like this science place wherever we're at. They're looking at all the spiders. It must be this presenter's best day on the job. Because every time she's like, this is the whatever spider, their special ability is this. It cuts to them doing their special ability as soon as she says it. Like every spider she announces, she's like, and they do this and they do it. And they do this and they do it. They're lab trained. Crazy day for her. I fucking nailed it. It's just perfect. Did you nail it? Because one of those genetically modified super spiders got away. Well, it's out. It doesn't matter. Not a big day. 14 out of 15 ain't bad. I don't quite. This whole thing is not this is when you literally can't do what we do to this show. Yeah, this movie because if a genetically modified super spider is gone, that's not just a maybe they took it out. You can't do that. And then when he gets bit, like he knows that he's a smart kid. He's heard this. He understands that this is a super spider that has never been, we don't know what it does. Yeah, he understands this. He gets bit. He knows he gets bit. He knows it's by that spider as it crawls under. If that were me, I would be telling everyone on the face of this world. I would be like lady, everyone here, every scientist man, I just got bit by this. Mom and grandma and grandpa and uncle. I got bit. I now own this place. Yes. There's a lawsuit coming instead of I'm going to make a couple of jokes on my way up to my room and I'm just going to see what happens. No, Mike, this is exactly why you don't have teachers like this who just make everything a fucking complaint and everything a problem. You were talking during the entire woman's presentation. You know what? Yeah, I fuck it was. I was trying to get mine with with MJ. Okay, I'm trying to get the school paper. I'm trying to get her to stop talking. Every time I just get in trouble for everything. I'm not saying shit. I got bit by the spider because you're going to say it was my fault. Fuck. Fine. I'm going to get I'm probably going to get blamed for that too. Defoe. Defoe. We talk about Defoe. He plays a really, he plays Defoe in this movie. He does. He's always Defoe. It is. But are we complaining rather than D'Ali? Go ahead. No, no, don't let that sit. I'll keep talking. I just want five seconds. No, I'm just going to keep talking. I can't. All right. Defoe. He's like literally, like I said, I think he's born to play every single role he's ever gotten in his life. But also not born to play Legitimately. Is that a weird like, it's like he's so good at it, but also not good at it in a weird way. I think he's like, he's this is what's like kind of missing from like Marvel movies today, though, is just like the over the top kind of fantastical like performances we get. We just get like subdued. They have to be real. They have to be so relatable, you know, like a bad guy just isn't grounded enough. Exactly. He be like, it's the fucking green goblin. And like Defoe was born with a face. It looks like a fucking green goblin. Hey, Defoe's face green. It would be green goblin. I'm just saying, man, like I there we don't we don't get like characters anymore. I don't remember like I saw Spider-Man the one where you fucking went to fucking England or some shit and Jake Gyllenhaal played the whatever fucking guy. I don't fucking remember his name. It pisses me off. Like this is like this is what this is my complaint from Marvel movies. It's like be fantastical. These are unbelievable stories. They should jump off the screen like the panels did when we read the comics. They should and they're already they're getting right into it. It's like we're here's Peter Parker. He just got bit. He's got powers. Here's Willem Defoe. He's going to go in the machine. Now he's got by the way, we've said it before too. Like I mean, at least I have like origin stories are just so taxing, you know, like get into the story. First, we need to see how his parents died. This one really really works and it's like no, just go into the story. Yeah, that's why I say I think it's like one of the best origin stories that we've that we've gotten in like any sort of modern cinema that we don't have to sit here and spend the first 45 minutes of a two and a half hour long movie just getting origin ideas out there and like learning like they even do a really good job of him like learning his powers. While we're going through the motions, it's not he only there's only like a couple of montages where he's like maybe in his room like trying to shoot his webs after he discovers that and trying to kind of get over and over and over and now that he knows he can shoot the web. Yeah, he's like, oh man, I'll just shoot this constantly just every single chance I get. I mean, it's sorry. It's a great analogy for you know, coming of age, coming of age story. Like that. Truly though, like it really like it's pretty good. It's pretty on the nose. You're acting very strange lately. Exactly. These weird experiments in your room. You lock your door. Obviously commenting on it and I think they get away with it like you mean it's it's such a Uncle Ben's just like, oh, he's like, I went through the exactly the same is no, not exactly. No, I've seen your fucking room. It's such an on the nose on the wall on the tables on the bed on the napkin analogy that like it's it's really in your face and it does work in your face too. Huh? Yeah. You never know. You never know how it's good. Yeah. See how high it could go against gravity. It's just crazy. Where it comes down to Mike doesn't know. So, but I just like I say the origin story of this whole thing, they do it so well because they allow it to just they allow it to happen over this time frame rather than compacting it all in flashing back six times. So we can see it, you know, and you know, the Batman begins did a good job of it to for the most part. They took the entire first movie to do the origin. That's true. They took it a whole another different way. This were nowadays the whole first movie that we're talking about today would be the origin of him finally getting bitten. It's just so by the end. We wouldn't have seen his actual costume until like the last 15 minutes final battle of this movie where what in this like he gets his powers. We're 20 more. We're not even 10 minutes. Yeah, 10 15 minutes in. And then we get him like in his costume, maybe a half hour or 45 minutes. Yeah, I mean, he has like and I think it's it's really fun getting to like how he wants to create his own stuff to again all the reasoning behind why he decides to become Spider-Man or be Spider-Man even just because even if it's just for the night, right, for this wrestling match, it's all such great reasoning and it but it also just comes back to the very simple reasoning. Like you said, it's about a girl. Yeah, and she's just doing it for a girl. Yeah, it's crazy. Well, scene two is Peter begins discovering his powers. He tests them out in school and quickly gains confidence. Peter decides to use his abilities to make money by entering a wrestling competition, ignoring Uncle Ben's advice about responsibility. Peter lets a thief escape after being cheated out of prize money. Tragically, that same thief, Karjaks, kills Uncle Ben moments later, devastated, guilt ridden, Peter tracks down the criminal only to realize his own inaction led to Ben's death. Again, just like good characters too and good characterizations and good performances like Aunt May is great. Uncle Ben is really good. And like, I don't know, maybe sort of a relatable or just like kind of a sympathizing factor to this character is that he is seemingly an orphan, right? And being taken care of by his uncle and aunt. That kind of gets you into on this character. And I do think, I mean, as far as like his big performances types that he or like big performance woes that he has to go through, like being emotional and being tough or whatever. Tupemul Gwaiar does a really great job as both roles, Peter Parker and Spider-Man. I honestly, probably the best. He's, he's great. There are things I don't like about Tupemul Gwaiar completely in this movie. Some things are, we'll get to are very, very tough to take in, but, but he's great though. If he's bad here, he's incredible here. Like when he's testing out the webs and the music cuts, go, go away. It's like pretty amazing how he is showing us that like, well, we got these new powers. Let's kind of like figure out what's going on. It's like how, how it should be instead of be like, I got powers. Yeah. It's like, well, let me just see. Let me just test it out. He's, he's really great in that role. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, oh man, how did, how did I do that? And he just doesn't know. He's got to figure it out. How does he actually do it then? It's like, it's like he pushes. Oh, is there's like a push or something like that? Yeah, it's like, he pushes like into here. Muscle. Like he grew another muscle or something. Yeah. My favorite one of all the hand motions is when it goes, and they go, it's like, it slingers on that for a second. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Such a, such a good way to do it. Give me two. Give me two. And like, I don't, I don't want to skip over like, you know, him being in class though too, and him kind of like dealing with this and this moment of like where he does that thing to flash like, or he has the fight with him. Yep. And you know, he, his spidey sense is kicking. He doesn't know how he did that when he catches Mary Jane and all of her food. He actually did that too. That was a real thing. It was like two days or something like it took to catch that. Yeah. But, but he, he did it all. They like put glue on everything and then he, but he caught it all. Crazy. While holding her. They glued the trade his hand and then everything else was organic. Like it took like literally like 300 takes. Just insane. But I, but again, they did the work to get it right. Yeah. And it shows, you know. And the performances after 300 takes could be like, fuck. Yeah. Like, can we just get this right? I mean, like after he gets that, it's the two shot of him and Mary Jane. It's got to be perfect. And it is. Yeah. It's like, wow, cool. Good, good reflexes. Yeah. And that's the kind of shit though that after, after this, he has this fight with flash and knocks it knocks his dick at the dirt. And he's like, yeah. All right. And everyone's like, the fuck dude. Holy shit. It's like, are you guys not entertained? What's going on? This was awesome. This is the best thing ever. Like, like flash got his ass handed to him. Like that's this guy sucks. You all hate him. Yeah. Nobody likes this guy. Does anybody like this guy? Come on. What's he done? What's he done for anybody? Got abs. Yeah. He's 26 year old and in high school, like, cool. Yeah. He still listens to cassettes. And he's, he's been Aflac coming back for another year and days and confused. He's like, nobody likes this guy. That's great. He's like, nobody likes this guy. He is. He is. He is. He's O'Banion. Glash O'Banion. That's who this is. Like this scene outside too, where MJ's got problems too. I really like this. She's just not, she's not just like, just the girl next door. It's not just a pretty face. Yeah. She's, she's got some like issues with her family, it seems. Like, is that her dad? Is that her brother? So some, some abusive kind of tendencies going on. And like, she wants to, she wants something better with her life. She wants to be an actress, you know. And it's the first time that she's feels like she's been seen. And as well as Peter in this moment, or like, they both see each other. And I just think that it's beautifully done, beautifully written as well. Which again, my argument for these movies nowadays is just like, there's no characterization. There's no like, I don't fall in love with anybody in any of these movies now. I'm completely engrossed in both of these two. And then you move on from that to like, Uncle Ben, this whole great responsibility, great power, great responsibility taken when he says, listen, I know I'm not your father, then stop pretending to be. It's like, oh, holy shit in his face. Like, I'll pick you up at 10. It really sucks. It hurts so bad in its actual character development instead of like, you know, like we're just moving on to the next thing. Uh-oh, my dad, my uncle died. It's like, no, we need this scene because we know Peter loves his uncle, but he's going through a tough time. Like, you know, you're going to have these clashes all kids do have with their parents, but like, this was the last conversation he had. He got with them. Not good. And they let you sit in it for just a few extra seconds, you know, in this car before he gets out. And I think that's, again, it's just, it's very well done, very well to make you feel the emotions and feel like the, you know, how important this conversation is, because it's the last conversation they're going to have. It's just him lying and just running into this place. And it's like, Peter, you're kind of a, kind of a shitty person right now, aren't you? And it's like, it's crazy. Macha Man, Randy Savage, first of all, Octavia Spencer in here. Great. I totally didn't know. Yeah. Amazing. Bruce Campbell as he announced her. Yep. Gotta have him in a Sam Rae movie. Like even, even fucking his newest movie, Send Help, there's just a portion of Bruce Campbell. Brilliant. It's a weird sort of thing, this wrestling thing, because people are actually paying to come here just to watch a professional wrestler beat the shit out of amateurs. Yeah. This, that's, that's this show. But what I don't also understand though, is that like, okay, so we're jumping a little bit ahead here, but, but Spider-Man beats him. So then my logic then would be that then Spider-Man stays in the ring and keeps fighting himself. But no, he, he's done. Nights over. But does that mean that Bonesaw then, who just got defeated, keeps going? Or is, or is the night over? It doesn't make any sense. It's a game of death. Or is it, yeah, what's going on? It makes no sense what Bonesaw is doing here. Yeah. It's nuts how that actually plays out, because I would love to know more. I think it's one of the best introductory costuming, like this is Spider-Man. This is like the unlockable outfit you want in a Spider-Man video game. You know what I mean? Yeah. And this video game was so fucking sick. It was, it was sick. And like, dude, I just remember just literally just webbing around town. That's all you would do. Yeah. It was just all you would do. Don't care. Oh, there's somebody down there, you go and fight some bad guys for like a bank robbers for 20 seconds. And then you're like up and just doing it again. Can't wait to just fly again. Yeah. It's like, don't care about the other missions. It was like echo the dolphin on Sega Genesis. You would just do flips out of the water because you're a dolphin. Macha Man, Randy Savage. Yeah. He's great. What video game is that? Echo the dolphin. Echo the dolphin. On Sega Genesis. You play as a dolphin. That's just all you do. Yeah. And you can just do flips out of the water. Like you're supposed to go do the game, but I just be like, Hey. You want to talk about Macha Man, Randy Savage? Macha Man. No. Bow and saws, Randy. Just bow and saws. Hey freak show. I got you for three minutes. Three minutes. You can tell a lot about a guy, how he holds up a three. Like we've talked about in Glorious Bazzards. I don't think you should mess with a guy who does this. Yeah. That's the, I mean, I guess that's probably me mostly. Sometimes people do that. If you do this, you're pretty docile. If you do this, questionable. If you do this, oh, don't fuck with that guy. Did you hear there's a theory out there that, because obviously Peter Parker now has all these powers, right? It's not like he's developing them. He has the powers. Spidey sense is fully there. We saw it. Yeah. We saw it in the fight with flash, but in this, he kind of gets his ass kicked a little bit by, by a bone saw. Yeah. And everybody's like, well, why doesn't it, why is this Spidey sense not showing them where things are coming from and punches are coming from? But the theory is, is that Peter Parker and his Spidey sense think that wrestling's fake, that it's not real so that it's not a threat. It's not an actual threat to him. So that his like Spidey sense is not wrestling is fake anyways. It's real to me. Damn it. Parallel threats real to them. So I should think of it as real. So if I think of it as real, my Spidey sense will think it's real. And then after he gets hit a couple of times, he then is like, Oh shit. Okay. This is real. And then his powers kick back. I like that. He thought it was just a show. That's great. By the way, he, and he, you know, he does, he, he calls bone saw gay. That's pretty fun. Yeah. You got that, huh? You got to go after the wrestler in 2002 and make a gay joke about him. That's the way you usually start things off. It's a cute, it's a cute outfit. Did your husband make it more? It's like, yeah, he did. Yeah, he did. He's a great guy. He's a really nice person. And it was a really thoughtful gesture for our anniversary. He's taking care of our kid right now. Well, I can come and make money and do this. His corporate job actually gives us the medical insurance that we need for me to follow my dream for do this. The fuck is the matter with you kid? We have a, we have a great relationship. You know what? Stop this match. Stop the match. Get the cage up. Lift the cage. No, this guy's done. Get him out of here. He doesn't know. I'm not dealing with this. No way. Spider man, spider homophobe. Yeah. Get him the fuck out. I was like, Oh, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the 2026 remake of this movie. Take a fucking risk for Christ sake. That's not W is man. It's not. Oh man. Like seriously, but in 22, 2002, we're like, yeah, spider man jokes. Totally man. Got him. We're all weirded out by a lot of stuff at this point in our lives, you know, we're doing good. Yeah. Pretty good at this. So is it, whose fault is it that uncle Ben dies? Is it the promoter's fault for being a piece of shit and not paying him the money that he was supposed to? Is it maybe bone saws fault for not being a better fighter and like, uh, fighting out for the full three minutes or defeating him? No. Is it Peter Parker's fault? No, it's the security guard who is apparently there the whole time who didn't even do a damn thing. 1000%. He was like a real cop. It looks like. Hey, better yet, how about it's the guy that killed him's fault? Well, no, no, no, no, I'm getting there. I'm getting there. Okay. Just calm down. No, the problem is, is the security guard runs up to, to, to Spider-Man, to, to just this kid, a 17 year old kid. Okay. Chase after chasing him. Yes, Peter Parker lets him go into the thing. Any actual police officer would be like, don't interfere. If you, you know, don't threaten your own life. Don't get involved. That's, it's not your responsibility to do something like that. This cop has the audacity to be like, what the heck kid? You just let him go. Yeah. Because I guess you just saw me like beat someone that I was not supposed to beat ever. Like no one's ever beat him except me, I guess. No, the cop was on his lunch break the whole time. He didn't see that. Well, okay. Okay. Other guys. Sure. Yeah, he did. But can I propose that Peter Parker should have stopped the robbery and then just taking the money that was owed from him? Well, that and giving it back to him. If that would, that would have been like the truly evil act because like in the second one he, he admits to Aunt May, like he tells Aunt May this story. Okay. It was like, he died because of me, because I was like, he says like I was feeling vengeance or I was feeling like I want to have revenge. That's not revenge. That's petty. Yes. Like that's some spitefulness. That's a high spitefulness. That's a high schooler. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to because you didn't do that thing for me. It's like, you know, this is actually pretty legit. He, he owed him three grand. And if he would have stopped this guy, he could have been like, I'm keeping my three grand and here's the rest of your money. It's definitely not Peter's fault. It's definitely, I don't even think that the promoter's fault, even though he's a piece of shit, it's the bone saw chicks. It's a bone saw. It's definitely the guy who shot Ben. I think it's the guy who shot him and then stole his car. I don't know. Seems like that's the crime. Now let's dive a little deeper. What if his parents were pieces of shit? Well, they caused him to go down this life of crime. Look, people don't just, Joe just start shooting. He needs to find Jesus. Stop reading so many comic books and read the truth. GTA Bible. GTA three had just come out. Maybe he was playing a little too much of that. Maryland man. What we need is an origin story of this robber guy to see really how bad he got it when he was a kid. Okay. Trauma is a real thing that we need to address. This is one of our best episodes. I can tell right now. So scene three, Peter creates a costume begins fighting crime as Spider-Man quickly gaining public attention across New York City. He takes photos of himself and action sells them to the Daily Bugle. After graduation, Peter moves into an apartment with his best friend, Harry Osborne. Complications arise as Mary Jane begins dating Harry unaware of Peter's feelings. At the same time, Norman fully embraces his green goblin persona using advanced Oscorp technology to carry out deadly attacks. His first major public assault at a festival puts Mary Jane in danger with Spider-Man intervenes, sparking her admiration for the mass zero. Technically, he killed that guy. Like that was his no, like he Spider-Man, a seven, 18 year old kid killed a man. He's responsible for a death. Yes. Yeah. Which doesn't really happen. Like this is kind of insanely dark and they sort of skirt by it enough. It's true to where it's not like a huge deal. But this last time I watched it, I was like, that he killed a guy. Like if it wasn't for him, he'd still be alive. He should have been caught and taken to jail. I do like the fact that I like the fact that they still say something along the lines of like, hey, you up there, stay where you are. It's like, no, I'm going to go actually. No, if I'm Spider-Man, I'm just be like, and I'm going to get out of there. Listen, it's amazing when you see a meme, when you actually see the meme in the movie, the crying, the uncle Ben crying scene here where he cries. This is where I have a hard time believing Toby McGuire as an actor. This might be one of the worst cries I've ever seen on screen. And then he doubles down and does it again when he goes to his room after graduation. It's a lot of his mouth moves a lot when he's crying. It's like he's blowing bubbles in his mouth. That one's more believable. Oh man, this, it takes away from uncle Ben dying in this scene of how bad his cry is. I think that the memes have done one over on this scene. That's where I'm at. Do you think the memes have made it worse? If there was no such thing as memes and you went back and watched this, you'd be like, oh man, wow. I believe the sadness here. Yeah, I do. Because it is heavy. That whole sentiment of that's the last thing I said to him, that whole, the argument and everything really sets in. And maybe when he's there at his dead body, it's like his face is a little like, oh, maybe Toby McGuire is just kind of an ugly crier. Yeah. Toby McGuire crier. And I, look, I love- Toby McGuire. I love Cliff Robertson too. He's great. Uncle Ben, the guy who plays Uncle Ben. I think he's awesome. He plays such a great, kind of older uncle guy who's just, all the interactions at home, it's like, hey, Michelangelo, don't forget we're painting the kitchen after you get home from school. He's like, all right, just raging hormones. They never change. I just got to find a job. Computers, no way, Jose. Computers, the world is crazy. We only have enough testosterone to impregnate Aunt May. We have to deal with our nephew. We could only have our, we could have our own kid and get rid of this one. Isn't it great how he, he killed a man and his uncle died and he's like, just, I'm going to take pictures of Spider-Man and sell him for money. Well, I'm going to go back to school now. Holy shit. It's just like, well, here we go. As you move on. You just had like 10 years of heartbreak in one afternoon and you're just, you're just like, yeah, I better get to school so I can graduate. I can't like- Chest clubs, weight bar, bro. There's a lot of like a complicated emotions in this movie and that's another thing that like, the new Marvel movies just don't deal with anymore. I mean, like, this isn't the second one, but when he does confess to Aunt May, like what actually happened, she shuns him. And that's fucking heavy too, man. That really sucks. But yeah, I mean, like, we'll get to that when we get to that hopefully soon. But, well, I was just going to say, since we're kind of on the, on like, you know, Uncle Ben, Aunt May kind of scenario here, like, I've had somebody, I think somebody told me that they just felt like Aunt May's performance in these movies becomes like almost over the top to a degree. Do you guys feel that at all? Cartoon-y. Yeah. Like she's just, yeah, it's kind of, I love Aunt May, but it is a little like, yeah, that's true. They, and that's, that might be my, that was a really good impression. Thumbs up. That's my grandma. That's how she was. It's all I know, man. But like, I just think about how, God, I can't move on. Aunt May and Uncle Ben, they seem more like grandparents in this than they do feel like, like an aunt and uncle. You know what I mean? Yeah. And like, for some reason, I always want, I always felt that way anyways, but now thinking back on it, I get the whole idea, the whole, the entire motif. They feel like more like grandparents than anything. And they feel, and like her performance feels almost like soap opera vibes. Sure. A little bit over the top at times. And just, I don't know how to feel about it these days. Do I think it is? In my opinion, yeah. I never used to think that, but when somebody pointed out to me, I was like, yeah, I can kind of, I can kind of feel that. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not sure. Yeah. I'd have to watch it again with that in mind, but yeah. I mean, to me, watching it, it just, it did, you're right. It does feel like a grandpa, grandma sort of situated. And then they're really trying with him. Right. You know, like they're really trying to be involved with his life. And that, I think that's what I appreciate about it more than anything. It's got to be hard having a fucking Uber nerd for a kid that you adopted. You know what I mean? Well, you know, like that's, that's kind of my sympathy with like, these characters in general, I guess, is, is like people who don't really know who they are, what they want to be yet. I really sympathize with those characters because I find out really early, like what I wanted to do and what I wanted to be. And I know a lot, not a lot of people do. So it like, I really have a lot of sympathy for people like that and people who like are trying to parent people like that, you know, I don't know. I won't cry now. I'm kind of a, You can't, you can't. We'll bring you back here. It's kind of mind blowing to me. Sometimes we've, I think we've talked about that a few times. It was 10 things I hate about you when like people are just so certain that an artist is just the, is the biggest thing in the world and it's going to be timeless. And they chose Macy Gray to be like the, oh my God. In 25 years, people are going to fuck it up. Macy Gray. Macy Gray is about, is forgettable of an artist as they could have chosen from 2002. Welcome to the 25 year anniversary of Oscar. We've got Macy Gray. Come on out. Okay. There's, there's, there's balloons and it's like Macy's Day parade. It's fucking awesome. And then we're going to put MJ in, in a Chinese stress. Great. It looks like a cool party though. I mean, it kind of reminds me of the, the Batman Returns like party thing. Oh yeah. There was just like a sectioned off where there's 30 people in a town of seven million. Like, you know, that's a good point. It almost feels like an homage to that. Danny Elfman doing the music. Exactly. Macy Gray. Right. Oh, sorry. Yeah. At this point. Danny Elfman, Danny Elfman Gray. Yes. No, it does. It feels like an homage to that almost. Like with these, with these, uh, the big balloons and everything. Like not a fun party. Yeah. Like, like it's over the top. Like it's pretty stuffy in there. You know, that's why everyone's on the balcony. Did you find it funny that when, that, when the attack happens and this balloon is deflating onto that stupid kid, that that was so, it was so serious that a balloon was going to fall on a kid? Yeah. But if you've ever actually held up one of those balloons, those things would, would smother an elephant. There's holes. You know, he could go through the bullet holes. I don't know. Yeah. Those things, those things deflated way about a thousand pounds. He deserved it. He couldn't move. He deserved it. His bomb was nowhere to be found. I like how they, he like vaporizes the board. Oh, yeah. Like Mars attack style. Yeah. It's kind of crazy. Why doesn't he use those bombs anywhere else? True. What? What a finite thing. Like just like all, just imagine standing there and being like, out am I? And then like those guys are just fucking gone. You're like, what the, what is going on? Why don't you prefer to like ruin their lives, like and ruin their careers and like drag them through the mud? It's like, no, just vaporized. Like slowly over the next like 45 to 50 minutes. That's why people are against the death penalty. It's like, well, you should, that's the easy way out. You should have to live in prison for the next eight years. Exactly. Instead of like, yeah. I mean, yeah. I want to backtrack just a little bit because we're talking about a William Defoe as green goblin vaporizing people. I want to talk about J.K. Simmons vaporizing people with his, all of his quits, his flat top, talk about somebody who was born to play a role. Yeah. So much. No, no, no, no, no, no, shut up. He's born to play every role, not just this. That man just never fails. That's true. That's true. I mean, if his commercials are one, a testament to anything, it can do anything, but also a testament to the point that he has always been J.J. Jameson in every iteration of Spider-Man to this point in time since this, every single one. Wait, like in all the extended universes and stuff? Yep. Really? Every single one. Even in the Spider-verse, even in every, every single character except for him. Exactly. He plays this. He plays J.J. Jameson in every iteration. Amazing Spider-Man to this. So it's happening in his head. Yes. This never really happened. Spider-Man is a figment of J.K. Simmons' imagination. He's only focused on the bugle. Yes. So he's generating, this is when he sleeps at night, he's generating stories in dream form of like, what would be awesome if it happened to our town. Yeah. So that doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what happens. I'll give you 50. He's going to deal with it and then done. Yeah. I'm going to deal with something else now. I'll give you 50 bucks. 50? I want 150. 150? So outrageous. Done. Sit down. I'll give you 300. Sit down. I'll give you 300. So outrageous. Done. Crap. Crap. Crap. I'll take everything else. Before he does that, he looks at him and goes, I'm going to play a game with this kid. Yeah, this is terrible. I'll give you 50 bucks for it. You know, like he knows, he's like, oh, I want these. This is really bad. These are great photos. It's like, he's like, ah, the crap. Get him out of here. It's like, sit down. I'll take them all. Yeah. I love it. Every time, like even like later on, whoever is second, the second command kind of guy is like his editor in chief or whatever. We'll always come in and be like, he's like, all right, I've got it. He's like, masked men. It's ruined party or whatever. He's like, I told you he's not a menace. He's like, I'll leave the headlines to me. It's like, it's calm down. He's not a menace. Like he's just always just on the, on the edge. Yeah. Spider-Man needs to be done, man. I just, it's just, it's his only play in this whole thing. If I feel like if J. Jonah Jameson didn't have Spider-Man, he'd have nothing. Well, yeah. Nothing going on in this town. There's nothing going on. We'll give a report on Bonesaw coming to town. It's like every news outlet is like, once, once something huge happens, or their numbers go through the roof, and then like, they're trying to find something when, you know, when we're not in a war. Yeah. Sorry. Media. I'm sorry. It just bothers me. Scene four, the green goblin becomes obsessed with Spider-Man, seeing him as both a rival and a potential ally. He attacks the Daily Bugle and later sets a trap to test Spider-Man's willingness to join him. But Peter refuses. During a Thanksgiving dinner, Norman notices a wound on Peter that matches one he gave Spider-Man, leading him to deduce Peter's identity. Soon after, goblin retaliates by attacking Aunt May, landing her in the hospital. You guys made a comment about liking James Franco in this, but I, I, I don't. I find maybe it's the character, maybe it's the, the writing of his lines, maybe it's his performance, but it's, he's so forgettable in this movie. Are you sure it's not the character? Because I don't know, maybe. Let me try and convince you, I guess, because I think it's, I think he's playing the character so well. You just, he's, because his character is so like, I deserve everything. Because my father makes me want, it makes me believe I deserve everything, you know, that sort of thing where he's, he's just brought up so wrong. He's just kind of a piece of shit character. Yeah. And I think I really, I mean, it's kind of brilliant casting if you think about it with what he's, you know, whatever. But like, it's James Franco, I think, I don't know, I just think he portrays that really, really well. Yeah. I think he does too. I think it's a, I think it's kind of a mix of the two where I, I think it's cast very well. The character itself is not somebody that you're supposed to like. necessarily. You're not supposed to like want him to be your favorite person in this movie. That's true. And I think it comes across pretty well where, yeah, he, he's a, we learned early in the movie, like he is like a troubled kid, at least to the point that he's been kicked out of how many private schools, but then he comes back around because he's just kind of spoiled and they just kind of, kind of gets away with shit. You know what? Let me, let me say this. We've done two New York movies in a row and kind of about yuppies. Paul. Hack it. Paul Hack it was our yuppie in after hours. James Franco's character in this. He's our yuppie. Is our yuppie in this. Like he, he is like one step away from becoming American Psycho. That's true. You know what I mean? Like, I think that's kind of like where I picture him. And it's just, it's just like, you know, like Christian Baylose, Patrick Bateman is clearly our character. Christian Baylose, like as we've seen, is not like this at all. I think James Franco is kind of maybe a little bit like this. It's just still just great casting. And then it just, he's, you know, he just does this portrayal so well. Did you guys hear apparently like James Franco and Toby McGuire have like a long standing beef? Have you, have you heard much about that? Apparently it just kind of, I don't know a lot about it. Apparently it mostly stems from here. Was it because it stems from this? Was it because Toby McGuire took his girlfriend MJ and he's really mad at me. He's really mad about it. And he wants revenge. Did somebody tell that James Franco that that is a movie? No, nobody told him that. Oh, okay. Apparently he, James Franco joked about Toby McGuire's frog like features on the set. And the latter being Toby was reportedly like actually upset with these comments. And the friction like led to like this existing rivalry that still is ongoing. Like they don't talk to each other. I think Toby won. Well, he probably did. I haven't seen James Franco in a movie in a long time. Well, he did some stuff, but also there was another story that apparently Joe Manginello who played flash revealed that he was offered $100 by two crew members to actually punch Toby McGuire in the face during their fight scene. Like to mistakenly like, oops, I hit you. And he feared that he would like never work again if he did it. So he chose not to, but like, I don't think the crew very much like Toby McGuire on this movie. Really? Okay. That's what it sounded like. Interesting. Yeah, really weird stuff. He's, I mean, I'm not going to say he doesn't have a bit of a punchable face in this movie. But you're going to say. I'm just going to say he kind of has a punchable face in this movie a little bit here and there, you know? So more so in number two, especially in number three times. But that all being said, guys, what is it that, what is it about the Green Goblin Serum the Green Goblin comes out as just an extremely gay New Yorker? Very New York, very gay. You know what I mean? He just, oh my God. Out of my, he's just very, very New York. It's like he's trying to order bagels that you just can't. You know what I mean? We'll meet again, Spider-Man. Spider-Man. Now that you've really pissed me off. I was just Virginia Slims just coming out of his fucking mouth. I don't like the Green Goblin. I don't like him as a villain. Do you guys like it? Yes. Do you really? It just seems like there's no threat to the Green Goblin kind of like he vaporized the whole of the vaporizing pumpkins. He only had one of them and the glider that can, you know, all you gotta do is reach up and pull the guts out of it and unplug a few things. And it goes, that's all you gotta do. I just, I mean, like, I just see it as like comic book-y. I just see it as like really a threat. No, not really, but like, am I ever scared of the Green Goblin? Not really, but am I ever intimidated by it? Sure. I'm intimidated by the bipolar nature of the character itself. Like how he's, especially in this mirror scene, I think we're here. But this, this was all like performed by Willem Dafoe himself. And it was all like done in one take that is, they edited around it for some reason. Wow. So like they edit it and they cut and he's now got the Green Goblin face. Whereas he was just doing, he was just switching, like at like talking to himself legitimately. Yeah. Which is just so fucking sick. Like, column basically. Yeah, pretty much. No, you're exactly right. It is really that character. But yeah, I think that's where like the, it's the unpredictability of, of Green Goblin that scares me. More than anything else, rather than like his like, we'll meet again, Spiderman. Yeah, that kind of shit. Well, it is, it is a thing too where they kind of, you kind of get this feeling that the persona of the Green Goblin is its own thing. And it, it like overtakes Norman Osborn at different times. So, Norman Osborn isn't actually evil, evil. He might be. Norman, I don't think Norman Osborn is evil. Yeah. And, and honestly, that's kind of the beauty of a lot of like Spiderman's adversaries is a lot of them start out with, with positive intentions behind what they're doing. A lot of them are very smart. They're scientists. Think about all of the ones that he's fought, you know, like, like Doc Ock, Lizard. They're all scientists that come across first, trying to better humanity, and then they fall victim to like their own experiments. And so it's not that he's like super evil. And that's again, I think what makes it so such a great complex like villain is that this Green Goblin can come in and take over any time it wants. And you, but you, but the person dealing with the aftermath and the effects of everything is Norman Osborn. And as we will get to in the final, final fight. Well, that's what's great about these comic book, uh, comic books in general, like comic book, concept, concepts. You say it, Sean, comic book movies. Why they're so great. Go on, please. Continue. No, please. No, please. That's what's great about comic book movies. Okay, great. Yeah. Thank you. It is like, uh, the, the, the human relatability to it is like every time like you get super fucking pissed off, you know, like, and you like, you start to act irrationally. You have to catch yourself. Norman can't catch himself because he's got this affliction, you know, that's what's really relatable about it. And that's what's really unpredictable because like, it's like, if someone like bumped into my wife right now at like a gathering or something like that, I don't, I would probably flip the fuck out. Yeah. You know, I don't know how, how well I'd be able to control that. I think that's like the, the dichotomy going on between within green goblin or Norman Osborne, the character, I guess. Wait till you someday, hopefully, you know, down the road have kids, man is like, wait till you experience that fucking moment. So like, I will kill you and go to jail. I'm fine with that. There was a, there was a little door stop. We were going to the bathroom and Harrison wanted to run into, he was running into the bathroom at this restaurant. And it was one of those doors that has like one of the like foot opener things and somebody used the foot opener and opened it right into Harrison. I almost killed the guy. I swear, I almost went green goblin. Still going green goblin. No, it wasn't, it wasn't Harrison's fault. The guy fucking flipped the door open way too fast and hard with his foot. It's, it's to push the door open, Mike. I'm not going to let this slide. Usually, if you have a pole. Mike, if it was you, I would have fucking killed you. That's how, that's, that's what we need to understand here, right? All right. You passed the test. Yeah. So there it is. But it's one of those things that I was just like, I told the guy, I was like, stop right there. You stand right there and I picked my son up and made sure he was okay. And I went back to the fucking dude. And it, but it's one of those things that you are. You're just like, I don't know how I'm going to handle these scenarios when they pop up. And what's right. If I can catch myself. Yeah. And what's right and wrong about those situations is that we'd both describe just selfless acts. Pretty much. Right. Like someone bumped into my wife, someone bumped into your son. Norman Osborn, they're like personal. Oh, yeah. You know, they're like to him, like the board did him wrong. So he's, they're very wrong reasons, obviously. And then is this, when they're at the Thanksgiving dinner, is this Norman Osborn talking this way? When they, when he's like, I have to leave and he goes out and he's really kind of talking some disgusting shit to his son. That's gotta be green goblin, right? Because why would Norman Osborn like, no, like all of a sudden be like, Oh, he's Spider-Man. Because he, I don't think he really knows that he's doing this, right? You may have a point when you're with your James Franco thing then to, in that aspect, because I'm just thinking about it now that like Norman Osborn seemed like a pretty sweet guy. He did. And so the normal, the real, the normal guy that's overall, yeah. What's James Franco's character's name? It's Harry. Harry. Maybe Harry was like, had unreal expectations of what his father was trying to press on him. Maybe it was like kind of out of something else and not really about his father. So maybe, maybe you have a point there with, with James Franco's performance. Yeah. And, and I mean, how would you, it is a little conflicting here, like how Harry fathers his father out like, Hey, why are you leaving man? Like, and his father says some mean stuff about MJ. But I think you're right in that where it's probably a green goblin. Yeah, that's gotta be green goblin. And, and he's like, it's his father. He's known his father for 25 years and he's just like, Jesus, I'm still processing what my dad just said. And then he comes back in and they're like, thanks for defending me. He's like, he's like, holy shit. Like, I don't even, you don't even really understand what my dad just said here. Like, you're right. It was a little shitty of MJ to be like, I was just going to say, by the way, I did fucking defend you. Exactly. He's also my dad. I've been dating you for two weeks. Yeah, exactly. Like, I'm sorry. But at the same time, it's like, yeah, we haven't even, we haven't even gotten to diddle. You won't let me kiss you. Yeah. As we see on the balcony. Okay. Yes. Okay. Okay. I want to buy you something because, because I want to buy you something. I think it'll make you feel better. It's like he just doesn't understand how to, how to like, like help a person, you know. Do you think that MJ knows it's Peter Parker? Do they ever explore that? I'm not terribly familiar with second and three, but she, she has to know this scene in the rain before it rains. He says, I was just in the neighborhood and had to take two trains and a bus to get there. And then, you know, 30 seconds later, he's now rescuing her as Spider-Man. And he goes, I was in the neighborhood. He says pretty much the same line. It's his same fucking voice. He doesn't disguise it. I feel like she knows that this is Peter Parker. It's shocking how she wouldn't think that, but I think the movie is portraying it as she does not realize it. She doesn't know it yet. Eventually, I can't remember if it's at the very end of this one or if it's at the beginning of the next one. She says, at the end, she says, I was thinking about Peter Parker. Peter Parker is the person that ran through my head. It's like, that's why I think she knew at this point. I know they're not saying that she knows, but I think she knows. She might have a feeling. Yeah. It's, it's during, it's during the, the climax of like the second one that she realizes. Yes. And so that's, that's when it all comes to a head. At the end of the second one, she's like, go get him tiger. I remember that, which is like, Yeah, it's so hot during that. Yeah. You mean like the kiss in the rain? Kiss in the rain is unreal. It's, you've got her. You've got the rain. You've got the upside down. You've got the face, the mask coming off just that. It's like, this is the best onscreen kiss ever. MTV movie award really reduces this scene. I think the black kid won an MTV, but there's no other award. If there was an Oscar, it would have won. It would have been correct. MTV movie awards. Like, well, that's cool. Cause it's the only award that we can give for this. So you did win it. It's like best smoker. There's no award for that, but there are clear best smokers. There are clear best smokers. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's, it's unreal. Like people know, I think people know the story is like, he was like drowning literally because the water was going in his nose. Yeah. Just going, which is just unfortunate because you're going to make out with Kirsten Dunst and you're like, excuse me, can I get everybody have a clean next? Just ready to kiss. So if there's snot, I'm sorry. And his eyes are at boob level, I guess, cause he's upside down. So that's kind of fun. Yeah. Hell yeah. You know what I mean? They were both looking at each other. MTV movie award for best motorboat. Best nipples in the rain. Cool. Final scene, scene five in the climactic battle. Spiderman manages to save both Mary Jane and the children with help from bystanders who stand up to the goblin. Final fight leads them to an abandoned building where Spiderman nearly loses until he rallies and gains the upper hand. When goblin reveals himself as Norman, Peter hesitates, but Norman attempts a final attack using his glider backfires, killing him instead. Harry blames Spiderman for his father's death, vowing revenge at the funeral. Mary Jane confesses her love to Peter, but he rejects her to protect her, fully embracing his role as Spiderman. By the way, just real quick, I forgot to bring up, but like at the midway point of this movie when he's got his powers and Uncle Ben's dead and moved on quickly, and they moved on so quick. I think it seems like that because the movie moves on very quickly, like they've graduated. She's now working at a diner, trying to become an actress. He's trying to get jobs, you know, it's, it's a lot of, a lot of time has passed in that. It's probably more than a year since the beginning of the film to the end of the film. Yeah, something like that. And maybe even like six months to a year in between the senior year, I guess, and graduation to Thanksgiving at the Thanksgiving table. Yeah, that's a good point. I really like how the movie just moved all that time along. And no, it's not like this is, it doesn't go six months later. It just fucking moves on. Yeah. I mean, you'll figure it out. He's not going to get this costume, this new costume put together overnight. Who's making this? Where did he order this from? Yeah. The internet's not that, you know, Amazon is not that prominent yet. Etsy does not exist. Etsy doesn't exist. Everybody knows that spiders are good at like putting things together. Yeah, part of his power. Yeah, he's, he's, he's weaving, he can weave his own web suit. Is that what he did? He's weaving it with the cloth. He weaved it out of webbings and just dyed it some cool colors. Do you know that it took me until age 43 to realize that the spider suit had webbing on it, that it was red with black webs, like all the lines on the spider suit or webs. Yeah. I just, that just, Is that just now? No, no, no, no, no, like yesterday is when I was watching it going. That's webs. The black lines are webs on his suit. All right, cool. Did you say it to Molly and she's like, yeah. No, we don't, we don't, we're not even in the same room anymore when I watch movies. It was on the pop tarts. But yeah, but I didn't think about the pop tarts until you just said them. It was on the pop tarts. He's a, he's spider man. Yeah. This is 2002. I'm talking about Boondock Saints at this point in my life. So what the fuck do you want from me? Do you know their guns were made out of metal? Their P coats are made out of fucking guns. For Ritos and Aquitas is Latin. Oh, wow. No, that's shocking. They're very disturbing. Yeah. Sorry. I said I didn't like spider man that much as a kid. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, I guess that's that, that justifies it. You're like right at the camera. Like there's something about the colors too. Like speaking of the suit is like so, so sick. What? I mean, I want to talk about this too, but like Willem Dafoe through the mask as well, but like him, Tom McGuire in the suit, the suit itself, as opposed to like Andrew Garfield's iteration or Tom Holland's iteration of, I guess, the suit. Like I think Tom Holland is like all CGI. Like cause his, his whole suit is like he got it from Tony Stark, who made it like a hologram thing to cover his whole body or some fucking bullshit. This is like literally made out of like real material. Yeah. And you can see it, right? He has to, he has to put this on. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it makes a lot of sense as to why he just wears it underneath like the majority of it. He just wears it underneath all of his other clothes. Why not? Why would you ever take this off? But I bet it's probably stings. You know what I mean? Like he's a, he's a 19 year old kid. Just probably doesn't know to wash his own sheets yet. Yeah. Webbing all over the place. Oh dude. That's just covered in webs. You know, and just, yeah. There's a, there's a cool moment here. Like the final battle happens. The, the cable car is going and something about MJ hanging on that cable and her like slippers fall. You know, it's like a view looking down and like that just made me get all tingly, weird like heights feeling inside the, like I know she's hanging from heights, but the fact that something fell from her and kept falling was like a really nice touch on them creating the danger. Yeah. I'm glad you brought that up. It's like the inserts like last week in after hours, like this is important. This is a threat. Yeah. You need to know this. This is part of you just a second ago. Now it's not. It's like, it's like the, it's in the Hudson. It's like the stuffed animal falling in cliffhanger. Yeah. You know, it's the same idea. It just gives you the idea of like what danger is coming. You know, what, what is at stake here and having something like that fall just, it just really solidifies it. Very comic booky sort of like a superhero asked. Make a choice. Sophie's choice kind of thing. Yeah. It's like save a bus full of random people or the woman you love because I found out you don't know that, but I found out it's, it's, it's great. Spider-Man. Okay. What's love? Can we, can we talk about him? Cause he, he fought for this role tooth and nail. Like he, like he really, he really, really wanted it. I looked up his IMDB. Hopefully I still have it. Who are you talking about? Defoe? Defoe. Defoe. Oh my God. That's just no. Defoe or Defoe? Well, we never know what's Norman Osborn. Huh? Huh? Just give me a sec. That's a good time over here. Well, 2003. There's Friday in email. Okay. So, okay. Boondock Saints, American Psycho, 1999 and 2000. Back to back. Yeah. Then he does some sort of movie called animal factory. Then he does shadow of empire. Fucking great performance by him playing Mack Shrek. A movie called bullfighter, pavilion of women, edges of the Lord. Like, have we ever heard of those movies? And then Spider-Man. And then he does a movie called autofocus. He would place John Carpenter apparently. And then he's a voice in glow punters. And then he's a voice of Gil and finding Nemo. Right. And then his like kind of career just like takes another level at that point. He's just an interesting guy. He's one of those guys where like he looks the way he looks. He sounds the way he sounds. Like he just has, it has to be the right role for him. I think he just takes the roles that kind of define a decade of a career. Like he's got his 80s roles, you know, and then he's got his sort of 90s, 2000s roles. And then now he's Willem Dafoe. Whereas like he's that guy in every movie. He's like the guy who Sean Baker will just have in a movie randomly or Yorgos Lanthimos will just have in a movie. Call him up. Bring him out. Well, I guess every time. But and then like Robert Eggers will have him in a movie. Like he does his like art projects. Then he'll do his like mainstream shit. We're like fighting for this role just makes me so happy in a way because he's like, he told Sam Raimi, he's like, every time you see a green goblin on a screen, I want to be behind the mask. Usually it would be a stuntman behind the mask or now fucking days, it would be CGI bullshit. Right. Well, and he wanted to do, he did like so many of his own stunts even just so he could probably do that. He did like 90% of his stunts, I think is what they said, just so he could do be the person behind the mask. Yeah. And I think I do think that he fights for these roles for and for good reason. Think about how he's just such an interesting face. And then it just happens to be the perfect opportunity for him to play somebody like green goblin. You know what I mean? But think about him in American Psycho. When he's being asked to be this detective and play the detective three different ways, that's almost like a split personality kind of a scenario too. Yeah. And so it really makes a lot of great sense for him to be this person, to be this role. I think he does it so well. And it's, if you had somebody like Nicholas Cage, his face could have done it, but it wouldn't have been as impactful. I don't think. Yeah, as much as it breaks my heart to say, I don't think it would work with him. Maybe he'd go crazy and do some sort of ghost writer stuff, but it would just be another Nick Cage performance where this movie needed a performance that really only an actor like Willem Dafoe could do, and there's only one of them. Yeah. It's just, I don't know. I just can't picture that. It's really hard to picture anyone else other than Willem Dafoe in this. We'll meet again, Spider-Man. It doesn't work, man. Yeah, it doesn't work. Doesn't work. I have heard some negative stuff about like maybe the CGI, not aging well on this movie, but I think it's great. I think like the use of the Spidey Cam, some of the shots through the city, this shot here when like he saves the people, the thing lands on the barge, and he flies through the building, and that bomb comes through in slow motion, like blows up in front of his face, rips off half of his mask. Like this shit looks great. Like it really does look good for 2002. The only time that it bothers me is when he's in his original suit doing the chase of the bad guy, of the car jack. Yes. That's about the only time that I think it really shows the threads. You know what I mean? It's not going to be perfect this many years later, but it's not, it doesn't take me out. But all the stuff that's like you're talking about that's close up, very in your face, and very, very, very moving, very motion packed, you know? It looks great. And it looks exciting. I think that's the important thing. It looks very exciting. It looks very dynamic, I guess. It's not flat, like, and I'll say this very much like a lot of the movies are. Yes. They're very flat. Whereas this, it seems like they, even though it's CGI, they still utilize proper lighting and camera angles to get it done, not just a screen. To be honest with you, there's a line that someone says where like, I think he's dangling MJ and the cart or whatever full of people. And some New Yorkers are like on the bridge and like, you mess with Spider-Man, you mess with New York. Like at this point, everyone's on Spider-Man's side now. And to come out in 2002, when we just had September 11th happen, is this kind of very synonymous with this and very, just very kind of seamless, I guess, and very timely. I don't know, there's something about that where like Spider-Man should represent New York. Like Spider-Man is a superhero and should be like how Batman is with Gotham. Like you mess with Batman, you mess with Gotham. That's how it should be. I know Gotham is fictional, but like this, it should be like this is what I'm trying to say, I guess, where it's just like it should be like a representation of a city or representation of a mentality of America. I think Stanley's brilliant in that way where he's like he really got that super early on. Yeah. Yeah. I think the personality of Spider-Man really shines through as like the personality of New York. You know what I mean? It's like it is a big city and everything, but in the same vein, it's like inside of this big city is a friendly neighborhood around every corner kind of a vibe. And like Spider-Man is your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man, you know, who's just he's your every man behind the mask. Spider-Man is not a big deal. It's not a big deal. Yeah, you lost your 20 bucks saying not a big deal. Hey, can I get a bagel with some cream cheese on it? Can you pluck out the insides of it too? I'm watching the carbs. Yeah. Yeah. Spider suits, it gotta fit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Peter. Yeah, thanks. I'm Spider-Man not Peter. Oh, sorry. Yeah, please, please, please. Can I get a salmon locks bagel? Whatever you want. Yeah, please leave. Everything bagel, please. Put everything on the bagel. Is it an everything bagel? Just say that. I just want everything on the bagel. I don't need everything. I don't want an everything bagel. I want everything on the bagel. You realize how that could be confusing though. I understand that it could be confusing. I did not, if you're a professional, what you're doing, you're not a professional. I'm a, I see you know, that's not a big deal. I'll just give you, I just give you a bagel. All right. Thanks a lot. Thanks a lot. I appreciate your time. Have a good one. Appreciate your time. You have a good time. Say hi to your mother for me. That's New York. That's New York. It's a great fucking finish to this movie. It's a great finish this movie. Although it's the ongoing thing about this, this series that I absolutely despise and it is the on again, off again nature of him and MJ throughout the entirety of this trilogy. This is the most frustrating end to a movie in history. That the only thing he ever wanted, he's got, he can, he can have and he's like, no, I can't, no matter what I do, no matter how hard I try, the ones I love will be the ones who pay. No, here's an idea. Get rid of the Spider-Man suit forever and settle down and raise a family with her. Super weird. It's a crazy concept. It's a crazy concept. If you keep being Spider-Man, yeah, maybe something might happen to her or you can just not be Spider-Man. But the movie saying that's who he is. Like that's like the whole thing of like, I don't know who I am. He finds out during the duration of this movie. I am Spider-Man. You know what, Sean? Then fucking risk Mary Jane's life. Who cares? Date her. Maybe she'll die. But you know what? For the greater good. You got it while the getting was good. Let's go. God, just, just spin some waves, spin some webs in that cave. Peter, I love you. Well, you know what? I love you as a friend. It's like, yeah, as a friend. It's like, what? Like after all that? After all that. After all that. The movie starts off with you being like, I'm going to get this girl. Yeah. And then the movie ends with you going, I'm not going to get this girl. I ain't going to do it. I ain't going to do it. I can't risk the ones I love. No, because there's nobody left. Right. So I can't risk it. I'm going to be my own man, MJ. He friendzones her. It's like, it's very like, very, that's what men should do now. Oh, you're right. It's like modern male incel culture. Not respect. Yeah. Only be inside themselves. Yeah. And then violent outbursts only. You are. He started it? Yeah. I like it. You like the ending? I do. I do. It's very complicated. I like, like the only, the recent Marvel bullshit that I liked was whatever, which one it was when everyone disappeared. Oh, yeah. That's how the fucking movie ended. The happening? Yeah. The happening. Yeah. Avengers the happening. It was that one where I'm like, it left everyone and like, everyone's gone. I'm like, holy shit, like that's ballsy. Like they went there. Yes. And like, that's, there's some real stakes to it. And there's real stakes to this where the movie started off as like, he wanted a girl and he doesn't get the girl at the end. Like how many movies can say that? No, I, I appreciate the storytelling of it. I do. I think that the, I just, it just irks the hell out of me when it is the constant back and forth of, well, we do like each other. Well, I do like Spider-Man, but I'm just infatuated. Spider-Man, I get why. Because you know, he saved my life like twice and they also like, kiss me upside down. There. That's awesome. That's awesome. Uh, but then, but then, you know, I do like Peter because, you know, he, he gets me. Yeah. And he supports me and it's like, okay, cool. And now I got, now I got Peter. Hey, Peter, we should be together. It's not like she was Gallifant and all over town or anything. And it's just like, hey, we've been here in front of each other the whole time. How about now? It's too late. I got abs now. Nope. Hey, I got abs. I get what you mean because it's like the, the push and pull or like the kind of woes that they do in like sitcoms, like friends, like Rachel and Ross or a new girl, you know, Nick and. Yeah, Nick and Jess. Nick and Jess. Like it's, you want them to be together, but like then the show ends. Yeah. But like what happens if they get together? Yeah. Yeah. You're right. That tension is like what makes it so exciting and people were turning to them, to the show. Yeah. And again, you got to remember it became a trilogy after this and, uh, and I'm so glad that it did and it, it all pans out, you know, so yeah. Well boys, anything else you want to say about Spider-Man 2002? Yeah. We'll meet again, Spider-Man. No, he won't. By the way, if, if he had, if Spider-Man had not gotten out of the way of that flying sled with the swords on it, it would have gone through Spider-Man and then into him. Yes. And so they both would have died. Yeah. Poetic. That's what he wanted. Yeah. Yeah. Green Goblin never really dies, Mike. That's true. You'll know that if you watch the second one. We have dissected this movie scene by scene. Time to give it our modern ratings. This will be etched in stone. You can see our ratings of all the movies we've done at confusedbreakfast.com. Also support the show directly by going to patreon.com. Slash confused breakfast. Lots of great perks like voting on upcoming movies, direct access to our discord, weekly bonus audio episodes and our top tier little Lebowski urban achiever tier. Get your reviews read on air before we drop our scores. AJ, uh, looks like we got a few people in there with some reviewers there. Yeah, we did. Let's go find them. I got Bryn Reese 90, a neighbor lent me this DVD when I was 12, as he knew I was grounded for being a little shit. The escapism, it gave me meant a nostalgic nine watching it now. And I feel it still holds up. Maguire is my favorite Peter Parker, but I do prefer prefer Garfield as Spider-Man. Modern eight prop green goblin's hoverboard. He stole and tweaked from Marty. I am so high. I can hear heaven. This is what he said. Do you say it like that? Yeah, he said, I can her heaven. Uncle Buck Hunter. Great name. Always, always going to come back to that great name. I'll watch this. This is a second grader in the theater. I read the comics and was absolutely stoked to watch this. It was a capital one 10 and talked about it so, so much that my nickname for years was Spider-Man. I've rewatched this so many times since then. My niece always wants to watch it when she comes over and I still love it. All the actors are perfect for their roles. Willem Dafoe as the green goblin was the best choice anyone could have ever made. That voice raspiness is haunting. Andrew Garfield is my favorite Peter Parker and Tom Holland is a better high school age Spider-Man. But Toby is my favorite overall Peter Parker friendly neighborhood Spider-Man mix. Uncle Ben and Aunt May were exactly how I imagined them as a kid. Kirsten Dunce was the reason I always took a liking towards Redheads. Still an entertaining movie, but I'm not going to just put it out there. Put it on any time now. The superhero movie market is super saturated and kind of burns me out a bit. Modern 8.4 prop, gotta have the radioactive spider. Gotta have it. Oh yeah. Well, Sean, let's go with you, man. What's your modern day rating on this thing? I mean, truly, like my whole, my, my, what, five year long complaint about Marvel movies just not holding up and like he said it best. It's over saturated. We're just over saturated with all this shit now. Like you, in order to watch the new Spider-Man movie, you have to have watched the, the fucking Disney channel original show of the blue beetle or some fucking bullshit, man. Like it's ridiculous. Tions to tie-ins. And if you're super, super into that, then you are, you are living in the best age possible. I'm just not into that at all. I'm into like original stories being told, and being told by great storytellers like Sam Raimi and David Kepin this movie. I hate to be the almost 35 year old that I am, but they just did not make, they don't make them like they used to. They really don't. And this is like kind of a perfect example of a great superhero movie. You know what I mean? I think this really, really holds up. I really love the performances. Tell me about Gwyer, I think is, is like my Spider-Man as like, as much as Michael Keaton is my Batman. I think that Mary Jane, I think Kiersten Dunce is, is fine in this. I like the character of MJ, like, like I said, just kind of gets reduced to screams later on in the movie, which it does not really appreciate it by me, but you got to have a, you know, something to save, I guess. But I think Sam Raimi directed a hell of a movie, and I think he created the template of what Marvel should be, you know? I mean, maybe into the madness universe or whatever the fuck the Dr. Strange one was, he came back for. He replaced the director on that, so I'm not really going to count it. But he created the pinnacle of what these movies should be. I think it, I think it really holds up. I do have a certain fondness for the second one. Haven't seen it in a long time. I'm going to have to revisit it. Hopefully, hopefully we do that soon. But right now I am, I'm a strong, I'm a strong 7.8. Oh, 7.8 for Sean, AJ, what about you? Oh man, it's just such a great movie for the superhero genre. I think it's a bit of a standard out there at this point, in my opinion, for what superhero movies could should be. Batman, like the Nolan ones, they gave us this great grounded kind of Gotham universe and everything. This somehow gave us, I feel like, the best of both worlds. Where we got our comic book features and aesthetics inside of a very grounded New York City. I appreciate that so much when you can have a character like Norman Osborn, the Green Goblin, come through in a city like this. Because then you have him battling at one point the people of New York. That's very grounding. So I think the movie is cast extremely well. I think there's a couple of points that maybe don't hold up as well as far as some of the CGI. But that being said, it doesn't ruin the movie for me by any means. Adds a little bit of campiness that I think it doesn't hurt at all. And so for this happening in 2002 being such a top grossing movie, and honestly, really, all the things it was nominated for, it's so valid. And it gave us two more great movies that I do really think are very good. I think I've got to go with an 8.45. I'll be honest with you, I'm more hard pressed to not revisit the second one of this movie than I am revisiting Return of the King. Like that was really hard to suppress. This is even harder. Okay. To suppress watching this movie. It's hard, man. Number two is very good. Watched it a ton and I visited Joe's Pizza where Spider-Man works. Fuck yeah. You know. Joe's Pizza. Yeah, again, I just don't really, I'm not a huge Spider-Man fan. So going into this was a little tough because I just like, I don't really like the Spider-Man world. I don't really like the villains of Spider-Man, but like it's hard to deny just how good this movie is. It's like, it's really good. If you think of the times like X-Men maybe had just come out. 2001 or 2000. Yeah. So like that, it was like the new era of superhero movies and it was exciting. And I gave X-Men one a 7.5. I think this is a little bit better. I really do. I think it's better. I think it's done well. It's a fun story. It interestingly enough makes me kind of want to watch the other ones. And I'm like, I don't even like Spider-Man, but I kind of want to watch it. So it was pretty great. I'm going to give it a 7.6. Dylan Mick says, Rami Spider-Man has a huge heart, but with the emotional subtlety of a marching man falling down the stairs. But most of the time the band is playing the right tune. Toby McGuire's Peter Parker still works well because he plays him like a nervous golden retriever who got bit by destiny and that's pretty perfect. That's also great. He's awkward, sweet, and believable as a kid who wants to do the right thing for everyone, even when he isn't sure how. The performance of the movie for me is Defoe as Norman Osborn. He acts like the movie is titled Green Goblin and bless him for it. He swings for the fences and at some points clears the stadium. The downside of the movie is it is very dated. The CGI is aged like gas station sushi. The dialogue is cheesier than a county fair nacho stand and poor Mary Jane is written less like a person and more like Peter's emotional final exam. Rami gives the whole thing a comic book soul. It's colorful, earnest, strange, and it isn't afraid to feel feelings. It's not perfect, but it did understand the assignment being spider-man hurts, helping people matters and power without responsibility. It's just a kid in a spandex suit making a mess. Modern day 6.9 punchable face flash prop the green goblin flyer. I don't even need the weapons. Just let me cruise around on that thing. Oh yeah. So as a group, a 7.69. That's going to take this all the way up to the 95th spot tied with Napoleon dynamite. We do think that remember the Titans, a night's tale and that thing you do are better, but we think this is better than men in black, teenage mutant ninja turtles and ace ventura. Interesting. So that's where it's going to land. That was Nick Mad. That was Dylan Mick. Dylan Mick, sorry. I couldn't have said it better myself. I guess I did just like a little bit better, but yeah, all points that you said were perfect. Well, we hope you enjoyed it. Everybody, thanks for being here. Tune in next week. Shawshank Redemption. We're doing it. Can you believe it? Finally doing it. Can you believe it? Followed by the butterfly effect. We're doing it. We're doing it. Can you believe it? We're here to believe you. Also, if you're new to this episode, go back this time last year, Euro trip. That was a very, very fun episode. Scotty doesn't know. We had some great jokes on that one. It was a damn good time. That was fun. Yeah. And thanks to Logan on the controls here at upload media group and Cedar Rapids. Learn more about upload media group at upload media group.com. Don't eat my pizza. I don't have my ravioli. Spider man. I love Spider Man, but I've never seen Shawshank. Cloud 10 is our network. Check them out. Cloud 10.fm. That's it for us. That is. Goodbye. Bye.