Hi, this is Dr. Ossess, I'll leave it with a special episode of the Way to College Podcast. Today I have a returning guest, returning champion. This is our, I believe, our third conversation. This is the third time I've had this guest on the podcast. And I think, I think it's fitting because, so I picked up her book. I have a book. Oh, look at that. I have her book. And I know, LT, I know your story. But really, I think, I didn't realize how much of a, I think, a pioneer, a trailblazer, right? You are. Because I think you all have that. I absolutely, because I, so I was earlier today, I was in, and I was helping my, my wife, my wife's a high school teacher and she's moving into her classroom. So, bless her. Yes. And so, but I've also, I've got to set aside some time to go help her set up, move stuff around, right? So I was there and then I had lunch or there in a couple of her colleagues, her friends and, and I was telling them, I've got this podcast interview and I was talking you up and I was like, and she did this and she did that. And like, you know, the term first, Jan, let's talk about first, Jan and I was like, besides, yeah, because I think, you know, I think reading the book, it gave me, I think, additional perspectives. And because I, you know, I think I know a lot of your journey, not all of it, right? But a lot of it. But really, I think where you've kind of left your mark on this whole, on entire conversation about first, Jan and a lot of the programming that takes place around the country and a lot of the spaces where we talk about first, Jan students and what it means to be first, Jan and, and so, so thank you for all of that. Thank you for all of that work that you've done. And then thank you for coming back and joining me for this conversation. Well, first of all, thank you for having me back. I'm going to have to send you a percentage of, like, the profits, I'll say, very, very loosely. I'm so excited to be back and just continue our conversation. You and I have just been having conversations over the past couple, like two years or so and it's just really fun to hang out with you. So thank you for having me back. Oh, thank you. You know, LT, you've got the book. You've been out talking about the book. I've been following all of the work that you've been doing, the conversations that you've had. But recently you reached out to me and this is how we've we've we've having this conversation again because you wanted to create a podcast. You were in the launch a podcast. And so tell us I started listening to the first episode. So I'm about, I'm almost done with the five, 10 minutes left in it. But tell us about why a podcast. What was it that led to? Okay, I want to do a podcast about my my book. Okay, you're setting me up because as you know, from listening to the podcast, I did not want to create a podcast. Just like I had no plans to write a book, right? There you go. But one of my best friends Samantha Pinto, who actually is a faculty member at UT Austin, was actually pretty insistent that it wasn't like, oh, let's do a podcast. The point really was let's have deeper conversations about some of the themes in the book because the book, it's a it's a narrative, right? It's a memoir. Smart girl is it's not a series of essays. I'm telling my story primarily from the perspective by which I was experiencing thing at things at that time, right? So as a young person, as a young scholar and all that. So Sam and and I thought it would be a really great idea to just go deeper into some of the major ideas that come up in the book. The first episode is just she and I talking, we're setting things up, but just so people know that the bulk of the conversations actually will include other guests, many of whom are mentioned in the book. And then maybe one or two who are not. Yeah, okay. Yeah. And so I, well, thank you. Thank you for kind of setting it up for us, giving us that context, right? But I understand where your friend where Sam is coming from because you sent me that chapter that advanced chapter or that chapter. Oh my gosh, so long ago, it feels like, but it wasn't, but I remember, you know, I think when we spoke, I talked about how layered it was, right? That there's this richness to it, right? And even as I, as I, you know, get into the entirety of the book and just in the from the beginning, I thought, okay, yeah, this is, and this is not, no knock on anybody else's book or anybody else's work, but, right, with this work, I think there's so much to talk about. There's so much, and I imagine as you go out and you, and you've had book talks with folks, I imagine there are a lot of these extended conversations that happen after the talk, right? Absolutely. And so unexpected, like unexpected fans, I'll say, including middle schoolers, that I was not expecting. Like the, the twin group, what would I've been told from different people who don't know each other, who were like grown adults that their 12 year old saw the book and read the book before, you know, whatever, whoever my friend is, right? So I think that there's, there's, there's something for different generations there, like for those who aren't in college, like, oh, what's this about? Right? Oh, she got, she's still like sports and comics and all that type of thing and music, along with, you know, people who, you know, professionals and on and on and on. So I wasn't expecting that, but that's really cool. Like, okay. Well, I think because there's so much to pull from. Yeah. And there's so much, there, there's so many pleap pieces, experiences, moments, where I think, like, I don't care where you're coming from. You can relate. And, and just like you just shared, right? Middle school kids, maybe there's that, a story that resonates with them or a feeling that, oh, man, I felt that. I feel like I've been in that situation. I could speak to that situation. And so, you know, I'm excited. One, to continue listening to the podcast, one, to really get into the book. And so one, congratulations. Thank you for creating one for sharing your story, but also just for telling it in such an honest way, such and providing us with so much richness. Because I think, I think, I think these topics, these conversations merit merit this, especially today. Yes, especially today. Yeah. As you do, every time I open up my phone, I get some depressing piece of news coming from the federal government, which largely is about shutting down certain communities, voices and experiences. Or what have you? And this is what I've been telling people why it's so important to find ways to share your narrative, share stories just as you are doing with your own podcast, right? It's another way to keep your story alive as well as other people's stories alive. So there's just not one way to do it. And it could be a memoir. It could be a podcast. It could be an Instagram account, whatever it is, just for folks to be intentional about what it is that they're doing. Having said that, I will let people know fair warning that I wasn't English major two time two time degree holder of English and literature. So there's a lot of illusions in the book. And Sam and I do unpack some of them. So sometimes, and not no worries if people didn't catch it the first time around, but it may be worth like a reread or something like that for some of the chapters to pick up on many of the, there weren't necessarily hidden, but there was definitely some references. Both pop culture and academic. Wow. Okay. So reminder to our listeners out there. You can you've read the book, give it another read and then go listen to the podcast, subscribe to the podcast. But you know, LT, I couldn't agree more just the need to share our stories and to thank you for because I think, you know, and if if if our listeners listen to the last conversation we had, you talked about like you and you mentioned this at the beginning, you didn't originally want to write. You didn't you didn't want to tell your stories. And you told you you chose to tell your story because your daughter encouraged you to tell your story, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I think one, thank you for sharing the story and two, thank you for I think giving us a framework. Right. So that we can all think about I hope. How might I tell my story? Yes. Where do I, where do I see maybe those connections in LT story? Maybe there's something in LT story that was in present in my and I want to talk about that. And I want to share that, right? Right. So thank you for doing that because I think it takes a lot of courage and bravery to put our stories out there. I agree. For the entire world to see. I completely agree. And I just want to stress, no one story is definitive. Where all individuals, the first generation community is very heterogeneous. Of course, there's some things we have in common. And absolutely, there's going to be things that I experienced other people didn't and vice versa. And that's why we have to have more representation. Like that's my whole thing is we got to have representation, right? And not feel like, oh, well, I didn't go to Harvard. So my experience doesn't matter. Absolutely not the case. We have to have more stories. That's all I can say. More stories out there. You know, LT, this is, this is about the book. Yeah, as I was getting into it, you talk about when you first, and I forget how you phrased it. I don't know if it was to teach you to learn about the first gen term, but you had a student say, we'll tell you that you were first gen. And LT, I sat with that because I didn't know the term until I think I was in my graduate program. Yes. And it wasn't that a student told me. It wasn't one of my students that was telling me, it was, I think maybe I came across some literature. Maybe it was a colleague that talked about the first gen experience. And I thought, and so, and yeah, and I had to sit with it for a long time because, because then, okay, thinking about my own experience, thinking, you know, and like, whoa, like having this realization, like, and so when I read that piece, man, I sat with that because I remember that. And I remember thinking, you know, I'd never thought so much about the beginning of that for me, the term. And even you talked about the community being very heterogeneous, I, not that I am not a reluctant first gen, but when people ask me about my first gen, you know, I, you know, I struggle with it. I struggle with it. I'm thinking about my own experience because yeah, I was first one in my, in my immediate family to go to college. And you talk about this, right? You talk about, you know, people that maybe went to college but then didn't finish. And so, but I had extended family, you know, I had aunts and uncles that were in college or they had gone to college. And so, but I still remember feeling lost. I still remember feeling like, mom and dad really couldn't, you know, offer very much guidance, neither one of them finished school. And so, you know, so I appreciate you talking about that moment. And, and I think for those of us to sit with that and kind of like, where were you when you learned your first gen? That's such a great question. And I have two responses. So hopefully, I don't forget the boat. Going back to that first generation definition, I think in some ways, we may be getting away from why it matters. And too often, there's a lot of stress on the first part. And I'm like, oh, well, no, I had a grandfather or or whatever. I had an uncle or a distant cousin. That's not the point. This isn't about like genealogy. This is really about a culture and an ecosystem. And, and we just use first generation as a way to arrive at that, right? So, um, if our parents are care direct like the people directly in our lives have had that experience or not. And therefore able to help us. I'll contrast that with my own two kids who absolutely 100% would never identify as first gen. They, I mean, they just, they grew up on a college campus, right? They was our whole environment. And we want to value and respect their experiences as well. But the other thing too, just a bit of a spoiler with respect to the podcast. We do in a couple episodes. I will speak to that person who told me that I was a guy. And we have not, I asked her, her memory of that conversation. She was, she actually was a graduate student at the time working for me in my office. So I thought it would be fun to have her come on and talk about that moment and more, right? And talk about graduate school and all of that. So, so be on the lookout for that. Like I said, it's about a month or so. It'll, it'll come out. Okay. Well, I'm excited because I want to be fun. You're about that. Yeah. That, that sounds fun. And, and like I said, I, I think for others, I'm sure for others, they'll think about that moment when they realize their first year or somebody told them or, or maybe they learned of, right, that definition, that term. And, and how, you know, I know I'm not the only one that, that sort of was wrestling with it. And I appreciate you talking about the definition and, and that it's not about right, this genealogy. And so thank you so much. Thank you for that. Yeah. LT, LT, what else do you think readers, our listeners can expect from the podcast? From the podcast. Wow. Man, when I say we go deep, we do go go deep. Each week is a different theme for sure. The next one's coming out and in about a week actually. So look forward to some reunions. I should say, like I said, few folks that are mentioned in the book. And then some people who are influential for me are still important to me. And I wanted to have them on to hear their perspective to talk about their own first generation experiences. If I'm not mistaken, I believe so far, almost everyone who's on the on the podcast also identifies as first generation. I'm waiting to hear from one person, one more person who is not, but also important to me. And so I think for like, I'll put it out there for the nerd who just like, I just want to swim in these ideas of being first gen and talk about these musical references, these literary references. It's so fun. Like I mentioned, they're just maybe some things people just didn't pick up on, right? And I just I like those types of narratives as well that are that have multiple meanings and things like that. And so we are Sam, my co-host and I are basically taking you in the car and we're pointing out the signs. Like, oh, did you catch that? Did you see that over there? That's what we're doing in this podcast. Well, I'm looking forward to it too far. Thank you so much. I'm loving what I'm hearing. And like I said, I for me and I don't know. So I've been reflecting with another with a friend and colleague. She's been a guest in the podcast, but we've talked about these extended conversations. And about, you know, because even even with my podcast, whenever I share folk stories, I rarely, if ever, give people sort of my take on, you know, reflect on the conversation that I just had because I rarely I leave all of these conversations. I'm going to leave this conversation with you today with nothing more questions and just more reflection about my own experiences and about, okay, I need to finish that book that I've been telling that I told LTO is going to work on the last conversation, right? And so I appreciate you taking the time to give us that, to give us those extended conversations, because I know we all have those questions. We all have as we get into the book, as we listen to the stories, we've got more questions, more things that we want to talk about or hear about. And I think it helps us. I think to reflect about on our own journeys and thinking about again, how do we tell our stories and where do our stories fit? I think in this grand narrative, because I think there's this grand narrative right. And so thank you for doing this for us. Sure. And if people have other questions, they can contact me on my website, again, latinareesmiles.com or smartgirlbook.com or the website for the podcast. In either way, if you have just something you want to share or another question, happy to answer. I had love it. And I appreciate you making yourself so available to us, your fans and then your followers. Oh my gosh. Friends, I think the word you meant to say was friends. Friends, friends. Yes, yes. To LT, I wanted to also be respectful of your time, because I know you're busy. I wanted to use this time to talk about your podcast. So, but also with all of my, with all of my conversations, I always ask my guests to leave us with something, give us something to think about, something to sit with. It is, it is. So this will probably air very soon. If not within the next week, within the next two weeks, absolutely. Okay. And so what I would love to hear from you, what advice would you give to, it's college applications season. If you spent any time, even on that first gen group on Facebook, where I've seen some of the questions about college applications and whatnot, what piece of advice would you give this, the rising high school senior that's looking at their college applications, thinking about next steps. So first of all, folks, Jose did not send me this question in advance. I just want you all to know. So this is really going to be coming off the top of the dome. Wow. Been such a minute since I've been in that space and that headspace. I was, I was just literally, I was just wait right before this conversation was looking at a link about college or what was it college or workforce or something like that or college or trade. And are the house silly to frame it in terms of or gray. I think, I think, especially right now, where a lot of folks are honestly in distress in some ways, but to perpetuate these narratives that of binary narratives, that you have to choose one thing or the other, you know, I would just remind students and not just students, but other folks that there are many ways to achieve one, achieve A-Gull, not one Gull, A-Gull. And there's no harm in having, in fact, I encourage people to have options and not overly focused on one type of post-secondary success, one type of institution even, you know. And to really listen to, like, get the best information you have, but really stay true to yourself. Right. And don't, don't compare yourself to other people. It's so easy to look to the left and right. And like, oh, they're running faster than me. You don't, you don't know what, what goal that other person had, right? Focus on your own goals. And like I said, there's many, many ways, many definitions of success in many ways to get there. L-T. As always, you always deliver. Oh, sir. Patted out. It's just a pleasure. It's a pleasure to hang out with you. You, um, thank you for that advice because I think it is you or spot on, I think, I think you're right. Well, we got a quite looking at ideas of success and, um, through that binary lens. And, you know, for our listeners out there, she talks about, you know, codified, being smart, what does that mean to be smart right now? We these words that we throw around and really not given much thought to, to rape her cushion. So L-T, thank you so much. Thank you for providing some context. Thank you for providing some, I think, um, perspective. And so I look forward to future conversations. I look forward to the podcast and everything else that you do because you are creating magic. Well, thank you so much. Well, and I look forward to seeing you year six for the catalyst of the word. So be out there. I look forward to having you back as a judge. Appreciate it. I'm, yes, I'm looking forward to that as well. L-T is always thank you. Thank you, our listeners and viewers out there. This is, concludes a very special episode of the Way to College podcast with Lightning episode. The Lightning episode, yes. Why is it still 30 minutes? We still got to wear my flash shirt. Damn it. I appreciate you. Thank you. All right. Take care. All right. We'll talk soon. Okay.
