Listen up. Huh? That means you. Yes, you. We know you're pointing at yourself. When it comes to party power games, we've got a place made for all sorts. From the experts to the drama queens. It's me, the JC. The finance bros. Look at those stocks, lads. We'll stick with slots. It's what we're good at. And not forgetting you. Yes, you, the one listening. Because at party power games, we've got all sorts of games for all sorts of trickles. This is your latest project. It's heavy with information, data and exactly 36 pages of waffle. But with Acrobat Studio, you can create a PDF space, an AI-powered workspace that turns documents into summaries and insights and even generates reports or presentations out of it. So you can cut through the waffle, work smarter and save time. Do that with Acrobat. Learn more and try it out on Adobe.com. That, of course, is the late, great Catherine O'Hara. And I have to say, Amy, doing these episodes is always a double-edged sword because I want to talk about the greatness of these people that we have lost. But this is so incredibly sad. We, like, this past year, we said this just recently in the Rob Reiner episode. We have lost some amazing people before their time that have had such an impact, especially on my life. This Catherine O'Hara death has really, really been upsetting. And I kind of, it feels like I've lost somebody in my own family in a weird way. I love that you said that because Catherine O'Hara definitely feels like a person that I grew up with, that I saw as my wacky, strange mom. Yes, I mean, she had this 50-year career that really spans every medium, right? And every emotion, she is a mom. She is one of the great sketch comedians of our time. And this later career renaissance where she is still one of the funniest people in a show and just, like, she's affected everyone, every single person. I mean, that's giant to have this kind of a career that means so much. Yeah, to keep it going, to keep evolving, to keep being funny, to never get stuck in one character too long, but to find all these new dimensions and wrinkles, to being like a funny, weird, strange, maddening woman, just being herself, going through the world, being hilarious. A woman who felt like she could just... This sounds like too small of a compliment to her, but I want to mean it as deeply as it can ever possibly come across. A woman who could hang. Do you know what I mean? Oh, absolutely. I just want to be with her doing her thing. I mean, look, a Canadian national treasure who has on loan to America for many years. I think that what I love about Catherine O'Hara is she was never overtly showy, but did things that were so bold and brash. There's a great story that someone shared that I love, which is in the 80s, Martin Scorsese and Robert De Niro corner her and say, oh, we love SETV. It's so amazing. I think you and all the women on that show, the characters you do are awesome. And here's the thing. There were only two women on that show, Andrea Martin and Catherine O'Hara. And she told Scorsese and De Niro, it's only me and Andrea. And they're like, wait, what? That speaks volumes to me, that you didn't even know that it was only two women on that show because their range was insane. When she was on SETV, she's playing like Lucille Ball, Catherine Hepburn, Tammy Faye Baker, Brooke Shields. I mean, besides creating characters that I just love like Dusty Town and stuff like that. And she's nominated there for Emmys for writing. And she's just unbelievable on that show. Yeah, I think in that background of sketch comedy, she was so flexible. Yes. You know, it taught her, or I don't even know if it taught her as much as it like gave her an opening to run free. Like, I don't think of her as ever getting typecast as a certain thing ever. She could be loud, weird, funny, strange, soft, vulnerable. She could do it all. And she also could say, fuck you because there is this time in 1981 when SNL, I think it's like when SNL fires, Lauren Michaels, it's in one of the retooling moments, right? They're trying to bring her on SNL to be like a writer performer. They're stealing like, you know, steal Martin Short during that time. They're trying to bring, you know, SETV people on the show. And she does not like what's going on. She's like, nope, don't like this. I don't like Michael O'Donohue. I like Michael O'Donohue. Or at least I don't like Michael O'Donohue. I'm a fan of Michael O'Donohue. We wrote one of the versions of Scrooge. And he was one of the main writers, most famously known for being the guy doing the English language class, language class with John Belushi on the first episode of SNL, like I will feed your fingertips to the Wolverines that guy. She hated him and she's like, fuck it, I'm gone. And she leaves SNL to go back to SCTV. She's like, I don't need it. I don't need this drama. I mean, that sense of a compass, I think that's why it's hard for me to even think of roles that she did that weren't good. No, I mean, and she's got these partnerships. I didn't realize until you know, looking back at her career, like her collaboration with Tim Burton, kind of amazing, right? I mean, Beetlejuice, that character is amazing. And, you know, Nightmare Before Christmas, she also does like multiple voices in Frankenweenie, you know, the new Frankenweenie, the one came out in 2012. And I feel like she's eccentric. And I think we always think of like Helena Bonham Carter as like Tim Burton's muse, but she, to your point, is like grotesque and lovable and funny. Like she gets that like kind of gothic whimsy in a way. Like I love her and his stuff. Well, yeah, and she could pull that off while occasionally looking extraordinarily normal or believing that she was extraordinarily normal. I mean, her character in Beetlejuice, yes, wacky, amazing hair cells, amazing outfits, but her range beyond that she could be a woman like the mother in Home Alone and have that same sort of electricity happening inside of her while being like, I'm in khaki pants. I'm trying to keep it together. She has a frazzled nature to her, like an energy like that she's on the edge, right? Like there's this one thing like if she breaks, that's it. Like you see that in Home Alone, like when she's making those deals to get back home, you know, where she is, you know, trying to trade her watch and then being with John Candy, like there's like, there, and yes, it's a mom, it's a frantic nature of the mom, but you also, it's real, it's grounded, it's kind of perfection. Yeah, like that mom character should be in other movies like, oh yeah, blah, blah, blah, kind of a filler, but she's like, no, this mother is interesting on her own. And isn't it interesting that this mother is like breaking out of her comfort zone to go on this journey? And isn't she funny too? And we're not laughing just at her, we're laughing like with her. And I mean, you know, we really get to sense this kind of heightened character in a real world is in the Christopher Guest mockumentaries, you know, she is in Waiting for Gotham and Best in Show, Mighty Wind, and For Your Consideration. And these movies are improvised and the characters that she created here are so, like there's just images, like you could cut away from Fred Willard, who is just killing it to just an image of like, you know, of her just like with her hand over her head with that weird kind of whatever she had, like her hair was kind of up like something about Mary's style. I believe that was in like Best in Show, right? Like she just, she carried herself like she was this woman who's slept with everybody. Like she, oh, remember that character? Like just she, she like had relations with everybody, even though she was with this like lame guy later on in life. Right? Like there was all these, these wrinkles underneath the character, right? Or I even think about how she could do something slightly more normal, slightly more normal in like Waiting for Guffman, where she's just, I'm a small town theater actor. I love my community theater. I'm here in Missouri. And yet the way she plays that woman is just lit up with like joy, even when she's being ridiculous, even when she's being clumsy. I think the thing that makes her really interesting, I don't want to be careful on how I say this, because I don't want to slam anyone else. But she really gets lost in her characters. You don't see her characters. I think a lot of people who are successful in sketch have a persona. And then they kind of cash in on that persona in many different films, right? And you see heightened versions of it, or you maybe see less than versions of it, but it's always kind of like the same thing, right? You're used to something from them. Right. They have a thing they're very good at. And so everything they do is kind of in that shade. And she doesn't. I think that she surprises you at every turn. You're right. She can do it all, and she can lose herself there. And she's not afraid to, and I think the thing that I'm always afraid of saying is like, she wasn't afraid to make herself ugly, which is like, I don't want to be, that's not a misogynistic thing. It's just like, she's not afraid to go and explore deeper, uglier parts of her character. Because I think that that is important. Like she's really pushing in weird spots. And I feel like she created things, like you said, very much in that Tim Burton world that felt kind of extreme, but also human. Yeah, she follows the compass of the character. Like, don't judge a book by the cover character. That's really to me, Catherine O'Hara, because her cover is always outrageous. You're like, Oh my God, and you'll get a laugh from the way that she speaks, the way that she acts. I mean, obviously, Schitt's Creek is, you know, this show that I think a whole another generation of people find her in this. And that character, I mean, the wigs, the accents, you know, the way everything about her here is like, this is to me, the, the, this is like, it all comes together for the, you know, for Schitt's Creek. That is like the encapsulation of everything that she is as a performer, I think is on display there. She just runs circles around that show, but also at the same time, she is the emotional core. She is doing one of the biggest characters on a show that's not very character. You know, in a, in a, in a, in a sense like that. And I mean, I guess they're pretty big characters on the show, too. But I don't know, I just feel like that is the perfect encapsulation of her. She still is also the matriarch. You know, she's, she's, yeah, she's the mom. And she's a monster. Yeah, right. But she's also, but she's also sweet. She's also sweet. Like, and you see, you feel like there, she's, she has dignity. And maybe that's what we're talking about. Like, you know, she has this dignity to whatever she's doing. She has humanity in her narcissism. Oh, that's true. Wait, I like that. That her narcissism was a joke, but it also was, she stuck up for her character's right to be narcissistic, I guess. I mean, I'm thinking of like something like the studio where it's like, yeah, I'm an ousted studio boss. My ego is definitely injured. I'm going to leap back into this, but on my own terms, as best as I can. And maybe you shouldn't trust me, honestly, but maybe you should respect that I'm still hustling. And you also find her to be powerful, right? She could play a character like that's the thing. She carried herself and I've met the narcissism, I guess, right? Like the idea of like, I am worthy of this, you know, there's a great run on Schitt's Creek where Moira is getting back into acting and, you know, and, and you see the ups and downs of it. I think that's the difference honestly between SCTV and SNL. Both shows that I completely love, but SCTV, they existed in their characters a lot more than like catchphrases and stuff like that. They built this world. And, and I think that that's just a different style of comedy, where their characters were just more lived in. I think in a weird way, probably has a lot more similarities to the groundlings in a, you know, but I can't speak to that perfectly. Yeah, but that would make sense because you feel kind of a deep in the spine knowledge that she is channeling through her characters. Yes. Where they're, even when they're caricatures, they're very real to her, their motivations, where she's able to even kind of laugh at them in a gentle way that's supportive. I guess, like, I guess I'm thinking now of like an investment show where she's like, yeah, I was the greatest waitress this guy ever boned. You don't forget the best, like she folds it in. Can I just say that every now and then you get a product that is advertising on your show that you connect to so deeply. And this is one of those products I am thrilled to tell you about the world's number one expanding garden hose and their brand new product. I am talking about the pocket hose ballistic. Okay. Look, I've bought hoses. They are hard to manage. And it makes no sense that hard rubber it makes it kinks, tangles. I'm like unwrapping Christmas sites just to get a little water out. But the pocket hose is the number one expandable hose in the world. And you know why? Because it's lightweight, it's easy to manage. It's easy to store. You turn the water on and it grows from the water, right? And then when you turn the water off, it goes back into pocket size. Now I am not carrying it in my pocket. But you don't have to carry a wallet and cell phone. Maybe I would. What I love about this too is it has this kind of this special pocket pivot, which just allows you to get in all these places with the hose that normal hoses can't reach. I've never seen it leak. I know that they have these thick washers on them that resist leaks. And you know, it's good when a hose has a hundred patents worldwide. Okay, so now for a limited time, when you purchase a new pocket hose ballistic, you will get a free 360 degree rotating pocket pivot and a free thumb drive nozzle just text unspooled to 64,000. That's unspooled to 64,000 for your two free gifts with purchase text unspooled to 64,000 message and data rates may apply. And I'm looking at, you know, her career obviously, like I said, her career spans 50 years. And there are so many great things in it. But you know, it feels like with the exception of these collaborations with Christopher guest and stuff, she's popping up in small things like she's just, you know, obviously she was in after hours, you know, and but really where she thrives is like, yes, whatever she pops up in, she nails. I think one of our underrated performances is in Orange County, a great mom character in that. In heartburn, she's great as well. But she kind of never had the vehicle. Yes, I feel like, right? Exactly. The way that there was a John Candy vehicle, right? She never got her dude, nor did she drop the ball, right? Like, it just felt like she was somebody who was consistently working. But when you look at her career, you're like, Oh, there was like some big gaps, but you would think, Oh, she would be so much more in demand. And I think this outpouring of love for her just goes to show you that there's so many people that find these connections in these movies, live so much in our hearts, you know, whether it's Beelgeuse, Home Alone, Schitt's Creek, you know, the Christopher guest movies, like they're so present as one of the best blanks that you feel like, Oh, she's always working. She's always working, right? Of course. Like my memory of how her career would have gone from the outside would be, I'd picture her like the just the best dinner guest, like, Oh, we're having a dinner party. Obviously, Catherine should be there because she makes it always better. And, you know, it's kind of funny that her and Martin Short are both having these career renaissance's at the end, like people are finally recognizing what makes them so great. Because Martin Short's another SCTV guy who kind of comes up with these big characters. And, you know, he's definitely funny in movies, but he's not like leading movies in the same way, you know, it's like, where, you know, again, go back to the John Candy, but, you know, Eugene Levy too, like popping up like they've been like journey men in the comedy world. They're just always just whatever they do, you know, and it's small. She's on Six Feet Under. She's in Temple Grand and, you know, doing a lot of TV, Last of Us, right? Like it's just- Last of Us, and I mean this as the biggest compliment, I had to look up to know that was her. Like I had to look it up because she so dissolved into that. And that's what I find interesting. I think sometimes when you are an actor who transforms themselves going back to that original idea of, you're not just giving the same thing over and over. She wasn't Moira in everything, right? She wasn't the mom from Beetlejuice and everything. So, I think a lot of the times, you know, there's a dumb, there's a thing I think in Hollywood, and I'm not saying anything unique, but the idea that people put you in a box. And when you refuse to be put in that box, you actually become harder to cast. Because like, well, I don't know what they actually do. And then you just become the person who does the thing that I like you best from, right? So it doesn't mean that like they haven't done the other thing. It's like, well, but did you know that you also did this? It's like a constant battle. I think in comedy, you know, what comedians are so good at is being able to morph and change. And if anything, I think that she was so good that I don't know if people knew how to put her in other things. No, it almost makes an interesting parallel to another terrifically funny, terrifically watchable person that we lost earlier this year, Diane Keaton, who I think once there was a box for her, the Annie Hall box, she had to remind people that she wasn't always that box. Right. You know, and with Catherine O'Hara, it's like, yeah, it's just a different, it's a completely different path from the beginning. And I love that, you know, she's also someone, and I find this with a lot of people too. It's like, you said she's a good hang, and I agree with that 100% down to play around, right? Like wants to do good work. I think Seth Rogen had this great quote about, you know, he felt pressure to make sure that he was writing her something worthy of her. And, and I, and I feel like she's always had, as my friend Casey Wilson wrote a beautiful piece about her on her Instagram, just about like working with her. And, you know, I think that she was, I think the best people I've ever worked with want to work, just want to get up, do it, like who cares. And when you look at her by like, she's always working, like I'm saying, like, you know, she didn't have these giant vehicles, but she's always working. And, and it's because she's not holding herself to a higher thing. She's going, I'll do a voice in this. I'll show up. She showed up on a thing that I produced, the greatest event in television history. She played the wife on Too Close for Comfort as we were recreating the old TV theme songs. Like, she was like, yeah, I'll do it. Do it, of course, just there. Doesn't that make it more more staggering, the fact that it doesn't feel like she ever said yes to anything bad? Well, I think what you know, it's very rare, like, as usually the person who wants to work all the time winds up just being, I don't know, I'm Liam Neeson. And she didn't do that. But I also think she, because it's not on her shoulders, she can pop in, you're like, oh, what a breath of fresh air. This is awesome. Right. She kills. She's always going to kill and whatever she does. So I think that that to me is like, it's a good lesson learned to, to kind of look at her and to be like, you know, she is somebody who is physical comedy is underrated, right? She is somebody who's voice work is, I mean, look at her IMDB, you'll be blown away by the amount of animated things that she did. I didn't even know about some of these shows. And, you know, she has created like a lasting memory in so many people's lives. I was talking to somebody who was very young, who only knows her from Schitt's Creek, and they've never even seen those other movies. Like the fact you recreate yourself multiple times, you know, the people who, you know, you're creating a generation of fans, the first generation of fans with SCTV, the second generation of fans, I think was that, uh, Home Alone audience or Tim Burton audience. And then, you know, this final generation of fans is like, that's giant over 50 years, 71 years old, not very old at all. And, you know, she will be missed. And I want to celebrate and watch some of these performances again and again, but at the same time, they're all burned into my brain. They are burned into the brain. I mean, hearing you describe her career like that, it feels like maybe the one unifier and everything she did is that she was really good at playing women who like got up and just went on with their day and made the best of it. Maybe they whined, maybe they complained, maybe they had to like get a ghost out of the house. But they're just like, I have a goal, right? Yes. I have a goal, like, and they are motivated. Like there is something, like again, this forward motion, she always had a forward motion. I mean, I loved her cast on Hepburn on SATV. Like there's just an energy, like, um, and I hate the, well, I don't hate the term, but like broad, right? Like that kind of a thing. Like, you know, she just felt like she was there and I, and I was, I guess maybe I'm just really lamenting a lot of SATV stuff. I watched uh, Colin Hanks's documentary about John Candy and she gives us beautiful eulogy about John Candy. Um, and just gut wrenching. That's a beautiful, beautiful thing. And I feel like we, you know, lucky to have someone as good as her who I think has inspired so many people in comedy. And I think that, you know, she's like a, a comedian's comedian. She's also, you know, people love her, but I also feel like she is one of those people that like, you know, made people want to act. Maybe want to make movies. And Seth Rogen said that, you know, home alone made her want to make movies. Right? That's important. That's huge what she did for people. And I love that that was rewarded, you know, that he folds her in and gives her such a great performance in the studio. I love her as Paddy Lee. Um, and you know, this is again, not a great place to be, but a just a moment for us to take a time to celebrate a great artist, a great comedian, a great actor, and a presence that is truly a unique one from 1975, 2025. Someone who is always at the forefront of what is the funniest and she will be very, very missed. She will be very missed. Saluting. Saluting, Catherine. Unspooled is produced by Amy Nicholson, Paul Shear, Molly Reynolds, and Harry Nelson. Sound engineered by Corey Barton, music by Devon Bryant, episode art by Kim Troxall, show art by Lee Jameson, and social media production by Zoey Applebaum. This is a Rome production. See you next week. Bye for now. 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