Bill Kristol: MAGA's Grievance Culture

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There's about 100 tickets left. so go on and grab one or make a last second jaunt up there if you're from you know a neighboring state and want to go support our our uh friends in minneapolis who have been out there in these streets um and then we're down in texas march 18th and 19th for a show in dallas on the 18th and austin on the 19th looking for a little more warm weather we'll see you all there up next it's monday so it's bill crystal hello welcome to the bulwark podcast i'm your host tim miller it is monday february 9th we're on super bowl monday slight super bowl hangover for everybody boring game good halftime show bill crystal that was at least my take that feels like the conventional wisdom the president of the United States didn't agree. What's, what was your, uh, did you even watch or were you kind of just doing an old BBC documentaries last night? Yeah, that's good. Thank you, Tim. No, we went over to one of the, one of our kids' houses and there were a couple of, couple of kids, a lot of grandchildren. We all watched the game. Not a great game. I'm just going to say, I know, I know we're supposed to say in a sophisticated way that it was a great defensive struggle, but it was just a boring, a boring game. But I'm pro bad bunny because I'm of course just ideologically, I mean, anti, I'm anti-anti-Bad Bunny is really where I am. I don't really understand or appreciate the music or the whole thing. So I want you to explain to me. I want you to justify my being anti-anti-Bad Bunny and be actually. You didn't love the set design? I mean, I thought the set design was so cool. The dancing grass. That was good. And then he comes down and he's underneath. So the people in the stadium couldn't have seen him. And then he comes out and you're feeling like you're on a sugar plantation. And then you've got the guys playing dominant. The whole set was. It was impressive. It was a cultural moment. And I thought that it was high energy. It kept my daughter engaged. Sometimes the stuff keeps kids bored. I saw somebody online said that it was like, it reminds me of the Sesame Street set. And I mean that in the best way possible. Sesame Street set was actually very sophisticated. It was the reason it was successful for so many years. So yeah, I thought it was really good. I played Nueva Yole for David French on Friday after I played him all the disgusting kid rock songs. And I thought that was good. I saw his reaction to that. That was good. Did you watch the Kid Rock one? I mean, that was the best of America, Tim. I mean, none of this foreign language stuff. None of this, one of the most popular musicians in the world. Let's go back and let's get Kid Rock lip syncing and other real highlights of American culture. Yeah, a bunch of people I'd never heard of talking about how they can't tell their kids that the boy can't be a girl or else they'll get canceled. It's really high octane stuff. Was Kelsey Grammer there doing a set? I don't know. I didn't catch it. I'll let you know. Neither did Trump, by the way. I should say that the Mar-a-Lago TVs were on Bad Bunny, which was, I think, an affront to TPSA. And Trump said, his take was that the Bad Bunny set made no sense. It doesn't represent our standards of creativity, our excellence. It's not up to the standards of, you know, the Trump University, of the Trump Taco Bowl, Trump Tower. It wasn't up to the standards of that. A lot of others jumped on with that. My old friend Clay Travis asked, would any other country in the world have their signature cultural event in a foreign language? A lot of countries are multilingual. So, yeah, I think. I don't know. I do think that the Canadians do some French stuff. And we could go down the list. These guys just want to be upset about something. The other thing is, even if you didn't like the halftime show, if it wasn't for you, not that big of a deal, really. I mean, in the grand scheme of things, I don't think it signifies the end of, you know, the fall of Rome, a halftime show you don't like. I think some conservative friends, including back when I was in that world, they've been upset about Super Bowl halftime shows for like 30 years, I feel like. And, you know, they kept expecting it to be the imminent decline of America, and it didn't seem to have much effect one way or the other, honestly. A lot of people hated Kendrick's halftime show last year, too black. Yeah, good point. You know, I wonder why that is. I mean, it's just kind of an accident They don't like the black stuff and then the Latino guy who's praising Puerto Rican, you know, kind of culture and showing little bodega kind of scenes. Yeah. So it doesn't really speak to that, my guess. Yeah. They just want true American music, you know, like Paul McCartney, you know, The Who, Led Zeppelin. All the British brands that stole the blues music. And all the great classics from the olden days, Christmas songs and stuff that were written by immigrants from, you know, many case Jews, actually. on Broadway, but of course, not just Jews. And, you know, all the authentic Americans like Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra and all those guys. They're heritage Americans, Tim, those people. They've been here for 200, 300 years, their ancestors. On the Mayflower. Can you imagine what American music would be like if it actually were only written by heritage? By, quote, heritage Americans? Would there be any American music? I mean. Yeah, I don't know. Tyler Childers would probably still exist. He's Appalachian. His record's pretty good, but it'd be slim pickings, I guess. I would tell you that much. This is all silliness. I feel like a related controversy regarding what our Olympians are saying carries a little bit more actual weight. A lot of Olympians are being asked about what they think about American politics. Putting my cards on the table, I think that it's good for individuals to be able to express what they really think. I think it's telling that the Russian Olympians never seem to criticize their country. I don't think it's because everything's going so well over there. I think it's because there are limits to what the culture allows. So anyway, that's my preference. Others disagree. I want to listen to a couple of the freestyle skiers. So my people, a couple of bros, potheads, talking about what they thought after their event. I feel heartbroken about what's happened in the United States. I'm pretty sure you're referencing ICE and some of the protests and things like that. I think that as a country, we need to focus on respecting everybody's rights. and making sure that we're treating our citizens as well as anybody with love and respect. And I hope that when people look at athletes competing in the Olympics, they realize that that's the America that we're trying to represent. It brings up mixed emotions to represent the U.S. right now, I think. It's a little hard. There's obviously a lot going on that I'm not the biggest fan of, and I think a lot of people aren't. If it aligns with my moral values, I feel like I'm representing it. just because I'm wearing the flag doesn't mean I represent everything that's going on in the U.S. So, yeah, I just kind of want to do it for my friends and my family and the people that support me getting here. Love and respect and just want to represent the elements of the country that I align with, my moral architecture. Seems fine. Yeah, it's very telling, isn't it, that people get offended when someone says we should treat everyone with love and respect. It's like they understand that to be an attack on MAGA and on ICE, which it is, it's not an attack exactly, but it is a rebuke to them. And they're asked the question as they weren't going out being grandstanders, to be fair, right? And they're giving press avails, whatever they do, press conferences over there. They're asked the question. They gave honest and I thought rather thoughtful and eloquent answers, really. I mean, they distinguished the country from the Trump administration, basically. So they weren't just saying America's a horrible place, which we have a horrible president. They went out of their way to do that. I sort of admire them. And as you say, the key point is, I mean, they could decline to answer the question, I suppose, but you don't see the Saudis or the Russians or the Iranians or the Chinese doing a lot of this. And you know what? It makes, I'm glad the Americans are doing it. So no, I'm totally with you. And MAGA world and Trump himself, the grievance culture, it is really insane, right? I mean, they just want to be offended by stuff. Yeah, they love to complain. It's so much at the heart of what they are. I guess I've sort of underestimated that, I think, maybe over the years. They're running the country. They're stealing tens of millions of dollars. they're beating up and killing, not to make light of it, you know, people who are protesting against them. Pardoning the people, they're criminals, that they're supportive of their cause. Totally, they're like, and they still are just full of grievance and resentment to some 23-year-old kid in whatever those bizarre sports that you like so much are. What are those things? Freestyle skiing. When did those become? When did those become? I'm a little behind in the Olympic, the winter Olympic sports stuff. But anyway, it's looking kind of fun. I watched about 10 minutes, though, of them like flipping around in the air. They're talented. It's impressive. And I do think the culture of that one is so funny because it's so much the opposite. I think some of them at this point of like the slalom and all these very, you know, sports where you got to cut a tenth of a second off and you aerodynamically this and you tilt this thing. And these other guys are like just freelancing away. The slalom skiers are like sleeping in, you know, oxygen deprivation tanks and, you know, like eating only skinless chicken breast and broccoli. And like these dudes are like getting off and having moon pies. hitting the bong. It is a cultural separation. In addition to the grievance mongering and the fact that these guys just like to complain, there is like the woke right element to this, what I like to call the patriotic correctness. I wasn't really a big fan of political correctness. That was something that we agreed with. I mean, some of it is okay. There's other elements of it went too far. I thought there were some critiques that were fine. They're doing all this shit that I hated about about pc culture and that they claim to have hated with their like with the patriotic i just want to read a couple of these people rob schneider the actor he's got a book about free speech and then he responded to those clips i just played saying take off the flag and give up your citizenship what happened to your book about free speech katie miller wife of air steven miller if you can't say you love america while competing on behalf of our nation then you shouldn't be there Megyn Kelly Hess should be stripped of his ability to rep the USA and sent home. I mean, they want to force everybody to stand in line and abide by their speech codes, the MAGA patriotic speech codes. That's what they want. And if you if they don't do it, then they're going to cancel you or they want to cancel you. They're trying to they might even try to denaturalize and deport you. And it's totally it's totally insane, like what they're doing. And it is a direct affront to the good part of America It like that is what America is You able to love the country and criticize the leaders Like that great That a fundamental element of being an American. And these folks don't really seem to get that or don't care. You might think that that is what it means to be an American and that to say the opposite is actually what's un-American. You can't criticize dear leader, but that's just, that's yesterday, Tim. You got to get with the times here, you know, criticizing dear leader. I mean, that is not, you can't do that. That's really disrespectful. And probably you should be at least stripped of your citizenship and maybe just thrown it to jail, you know, thrown it through detention. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I don't understand what time it is. We need authoritarianism to bring back the real American spirit. Yeah, we need authoritarianism to bring back the true American heritage. All right. Any other sports talk before we move on to issues of the day? Have you watched much of the Olympics? You know, I have not. There's a lot happening. I like the Olympics. Like back in college when I had a lot of free time and I was doing what some of the freestyle skiers were doing after they got off the mountain, I would sit around and watch luge and curling and gamble on it or whatever. And so I haven't had a ton of time. But I do enjoy the spectacle. I like the regalia. Yeah, I haven't watched much. I did flip it on a couple of times. And it seemed to every time I did, they were doing curling, which I can't say curling is really for me. I don't want to criticize anyone else. It's not un-American to like it. People can do whatever they want. It's a free country. But I don't know, curling, really? So I did eight seconds of research. Like, why is curling a winter Olympic sport? And the answer is somehow it was in the first Olympics in 1924. I have no idea why. Then they kicked it out for 75 years, which may be a reasonable judgment. But they somehow got it back in there in 1998, and now it's in there. And I'm sure I'm being unfair, and I'm sure it's very interesting and all that. Yeah. I think there's high drama at the end of the curling matches, and I think you can make anything interesting via gambling. That'd be one piece of advice. Why waste the time? And let me tell you, it is a lot of time because I had to do this. Wandering around a blind store, trying to figure out what to do for your blinds. When you can have three-day blinds, bring the showroom to you. It allows you to spend your Saturday brunching, not blind shopping. With three-day blinds, there's a better way to buy blinds, shades, shutters, and drapery. 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You wrote about this in the newsletter this morning and basically made the case that the Democrats should offer to the Republicans that they'll separate out the useful parts of DHS, FEMA, and the other elements that might be needed, and then have a debate solely on the $10 billion funding for ICE and the $6 billion for Border Patrol, which obviously the Democrats would argue should not be appropriated. That was basically your take. Do you want to expand on that? Yeah, no. I mean, they succeeded in separating out the DHS bill, the Homeland Security bill, from the other appropriations bills. So the next step of that would be to separate out the reasonable parts of DHS from the Eisen border patrol. They should push that. I think I asked some Democrats late last week, why aren't you pushing that? Well, we get more leverage for now if they're all mixed together. I think they're overthinking it. That way they can just say, we're for FEMA, we're for whatever other stuff, Coast Guard, I guess, and a couple other things, TSA, but we're not for ICE and Border Patrol. You said quickly in passing, well, of course, the Dems would be against funding that, but that is not their official position. Their official position, I think, unfortunately, really, is we have all these restrictions we're going to put on it. And I'm for those restrictions. They would improve, I guess, ICE and Border Patrol. Pretty unenforceable. Trump administration is pretty good at ignoring congressional restrictions. They should defund it as much as possible. I mean, there's a written out, someone will say back to me correctly, well, there's already all this funding in the stupid reconciliation bill from last year. So all you're doing is kind of reducing the rate of growth of ICE in the Border Patrol. But that's important, actually. And there are other people who say, well, but this money's for slightly different things than the money in the reconciliation bill. The less funding for ICE in Border Patrol, the better. That's my simple-minded view. They're doing bad things to immigrants. Obviously, they're doing bad things to Americans. They're intimidating citizens. They're part of the election, 2026 and 2028 election interference plan. And so the less funding, the better. So I think they should just focus a little more on the funding. I think that's really where the power is. Stephen Miller was not stupid when he put all that money into the reconciliation bill for ICE and Border Patrol. So I'm a little more focused on the funding. I'm fine with the restrictions, but the restrictions are really less important than the funding, I think. So that's my only advice to the Democrats, fight the funding. Yeah, sure. I liked the argument of separating out just because it's like then you can then you're basically have a clear message you're saying to the republicans it's like you can if you want to shut down this stuff because you want to fund ice you know and cbp that's okay that's your call but like we support that edgar and i did a video on this you can go watch it from uh bullock takes a couple left from last week and edgar i think has a slightly different view from you where he's like take some w's you know like let's let's try to make things meaningfully better for people and if that means that we get them to take off their masks and they have to have new rules around warrants and some of these various things that they're talking about, then that's better than the status quo. I struggled with that because there's an element of that argument I agree with. And I think at the end of the day, that would be a win. It would be not nothing. But I also just like putting myself in the shoe, which I will never be. I appreciate the notes I get about this sometimes, but I will never be a senator. I have no interest. If I were, I think it'd be really hard for me to cast a vote that had any funding for them, you know, like even if you kind of deal on the other stuff. Yeah. So maybe let the others pass it then. But you know what? The Republicans aren't going to agree to this anyway, in my opinion, and Trump's not. So to those stipulations they want, if the Democrats hang tough on those. So I don't know that they really need to decide between these two strategies. They just need to say we're for all these things. The Republicans at some point say we can't accept them. The Democrats say, well, fine, then separate out the other stuff, fund the Coast Guard and FEMA. And we're just not going to fund. I mean, the good news is the the CR runs out on Friday, right? So if there's no funding, there's no funding. So, you know, then they'll draw down some of the funding that's already in there, unfortunately, from last year's, you know, five-year appropriation to fund stuff they want. But at least there'll be less money sloshing around ICE and Border Patrol world. And that's Katie Britt. You know, she was crying with the New York Times last week about what ICE and CBP has been doing. And so maybe she will come along, you know? I don't know. You never know. Maybe those tears were authentic and she wants to put some policy backbone behind those feelings. We are on offense on this and we being the people that are opposed to this. The key, honestly, is to stay on offense. And the key is not to sort of say, we're not going to really negotiate in public here. We're going to backroom discussions, Chuck Schumer, this, that, you know, and we'll work it all out here quietly. Negotiations work better, Tim, when they're not all public. They need to just hammer these people and say, why are you against the warrants? Why are you for the masks? And you defend that publicly. And Katie Britt, you said you were very upset. Where are you? They really, I think, need to maximize this opportunity. Listeners, think back to a first date where you're really interested in someone. You probably ask them important questions like, what are your deal breakers? Or, I don't know, maybe if you're Barry Weiss's sister, you might ask what their goal weight is. and if you're a normal person, you just ask them other things to try to get a better idea of whether they're the right person for you. Well, the same goes for hiring. And you don't always get the first date tingles. That's why you need ZipRecruiter. When you post your job, ZipRecruiter suggests screening questions to help you hone in on top candidates faster. And today you can try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash bulwark. 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Meet your match on ZipRecruiter. related news this is from the times over the weekend we all knew this but when you have reporting it's good to just accentuate because like the news cycle moves so fast people forget stuff and it's just like it's important to just have on the record there were fbi agents that were preparing to do routine forensic analysis of the scene following grenade goods killing they received orders from political leadership to stop those orders came from senior leadership including cash patel obviously we also know that there is an ongoing cover-up of the whatever you know kangaroo investigation that they're looking into after the prep with regards to the pretty killing because they're not working with local officials we've heard from fry and wals and others on that so it is striking just in the sense of this is different you know like lying spinning, trying to whitewash stuff. That's been in the playbook for Trump, for sure, but other presidents in the past. We're getting back to Hoover days, where it's like, no, the head of the FBI is saying, no, we need to cover this up because it's going to make the president look bad. Yeah, totally. Maybe they should make that a condition, incidentally, of ICE funding as well. Independent investigations, yeah. Yeah, and I think they mentioned it, one of their 10 points, but it's sort of vague, and they could explicitly address the two killings and say, we want right now independent groups established with some people selected from outside the administration to investigate the two killings that have happened. I mean, the Democrats have this slightly playing by the rules attitude. I've noticed this in conversations with a couple of them. Well, these are the 10 conditions we developed last week. We can't really add them now, Bill. I mean, that would sort of be like changing the, you know, changing the rules of the game halfway. It's like ridiculous. Of course, you can add more conditions. we just learned as you say from new reporting that there a even worse cover going on going on than we thought and the same with the election interference which has come to the fore in the last week That not one of the conditions that I just wouldn be used at the poll you know, anywhere near any polls and so forth. So I think that, yeah, the Dems just need to go on a very strong offense here. They're winning on this issue. I very much agree with Andrew. I mean, we shouldn't, you're right to point that out and to stress that. And it's not as if the Dems are playing defense. They're only playing defense to the degree they're making themselves play defense. They need to stay on offense. And the numbers are pretty astonishing on ICE, honestly. I mean, for the issue that was the weakest one for the Democrats, immigration, oh my God, they can't talk about it. That was just a year ago, right? Trump's immigration, Trump's mass deportation policy and everything that it has brought with it, the violence, the violations of civil rights and so forth, the bigotry is really unpopular. Four months ago, the Democrats felt like they couldn't talk about this. I mean, I mentioned Katie Britt, but also down here in Louisiana, like John Kennedy. when you have Senator John Kennedy out there talking about how the ICE guys are getting a little out of control and they've got to dial it back. I mean, I think that tells you all you need to know. Speaking of the kind of vibe shift for Democrats, even here in Louisiana, well, not here in Louisiana, YouTube folks will notice I'm actually in an undisclosed hotel room right now. Everything's fine. Everything's fine, but I'm not home. But in my home of Louisiana, Chassidy Martinez won. kind of a landslide, basically, two to one in a House special election. Now, this was when we last week, we were talking about the Texas Senate, state Senate race. And you were right to point out this is Texas. It's one of those things where like there were 100,000 votes in contrast to some of these other smaller specials that are more like school council elections. This was the latter. I think it was like 8,000 votes to 5,000 or something like that. But a pretty distinct win for Martinez in this district that went for Trump three times. The last time was Trump plus 13. It has shown some swingishness for Louisiana, like that same district went for John Bel Edwards, kind of conservative Democrat that was governor for a while. So, you know, it was, that's the type of district that Democrats would do need to win if they're going to do well in the South. But I can't say that I've spent a ton of time in Iberville and Assumption Parish, but, you know, There's not a Whole Foods there, I guess is all I'm going to tell you. It's between Baton Rouge and New Orleans, so there's sprawl. You're not way out in the bayou or anything, but this is noteworthy for a Democrat to win again by such a significant margin. Caveat, caveat about it being an off year and on a weekend and stuff. The pattern's gotten pretty convincing, I would just say, of these special elections. This one sounds like it's a little more of a, do you think, a non-college kind of white working class district as opposed to maybe outside Houston, which is a little more upper middle class, I would say, from last week. Yeah, and I think it's mixed. I don't want to, again, like you got a little bit of surprise. But no, but that's, I only mentioned this because that is, I mean, Ron Brownstein, I had a podcast with him yesterday on the Bulwark on Sunday. I mean, the degree to which it's so important for Democrats to make some dent in the white working class vote, especially the white working class women, where there's been some unhappiness with Trump, both on economic grounds, some of the working class voters, but also women, especially, I think, on some of the ICE stuff and that kind of thing. And also whether evangelicals has been the core of Trump's support, but in districts, Louisiana is a little exceptional that way, right? Because it's so Catholic and stuff. So maybe there's a little more give in Louisiana among some of these voters. I mean, who knows? It's a small electorate, as you say, and I'm sure there were local issues and all that, but there's enough data now that it feels kind of wavish here. And I will see if Democrats can really take advantage of it. But I think they have a real shot, certainly at the House. They're going to take it, I think, unless things go crazy. And they have a real shot at the senator, I think. Yeah, just quick Google here. Only 27 percent holding a bachelor's degree or higher in Iberville Parish. This is not the district, right? Because there's other parts of the parish, I think, but still, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like this is this is a lot of a non-college white voting electorate. To your point about the wave, I got a couple of texts after this election from folks saying, what are you going to do to get John Bel Edwards into this race? You know, I think that point relates to, I believe it was on the Monday show last week, the 15-minute rant about how frustrated I am with the Texas Senate race. I think that it's not so late, like it is, like some places you're past filing, but it's still February. There have been late entrants into races in the past and I do think a continued full court press in these red states just because the more chances you got, the better your odds are that one of them ends up breaking or maybe a couple of them end up breaking, particularly in the Senate. So I don't know if you have any broader thoughts on that or on Texas in particular. No, I totally agree both. In states that haven't hit the filing deadline yet, good candidates, if you're watching, get in. Either you've someone who's a proven candidate like John Bell Edwards or someone who would be an attractive candidate because he or she's a new face, but it's not too late. It's not to have some of these House races either. Yeah, I very much agree with that. We're still looking for a candidate that feels credible here in Louisiana for that Senate race. But, you know, you've got right now Cassidy, this is the Cassidy seat, and he's up. It just is enough to just make you want to vomit. He's up on TV here locally talking about how the Trump endorsed candidate Letlow is a Nancy Pelosi liberal, you know, and it's just like, okay, you know, I guess that's what that's where they're at. But I wouldn't tell anybody that You'd be a favorite if you'd get into a Senate race in Louisiana as a Democrat. But if there was going to be a time to do it, the first midterm or the Trump second term seems like the time. So anyway, no, you didn't have any deeper thoughts on you don't want to get in trouble on the Internet about the Tallarico Crockett feud. I noticed you had your ritual five minutes ago, your ritual. Of course, I'd never run for the Senate. But come to think of it, aren't you a Louisiana resident? I think you're a natural, you know. This is a great point. I'm happy that you'd bring this up because in a lot of ways, some people have smarted at some of my critiques of Jasmine Crockett's campaign. In a lot of ways, I'm kind of Jasmine Crockett. And I don't think I should run for Senate in Louisiana for the same reasons that I don't know that she's offering the strongest foot for the Democrats for a Texas race. Right. Like there are places, you know, had I never moved from Oakland, maybe, you know, George Conway is trying it out in New York. That's fine. But I don't think that like a full-time Trump shit poster is like the ideal person for Louisiana. I appreciate the thought, but we'll keep the recruitment train going. You know that moment when you're running out the door and you need a shirt that looks polished without messing with an iron? You guys know that I need that because you watch me in my wrinkly clothes all the time. We got a solution to it. It's our new friends at Mizzen and Main. Mizuna Main makes classic menswear with performance fabrics so effortless to look sharp and feel great. Mizuna Main actually invented the performance fabric dress shirt over 10 years ago. Since then, they've perfected it with modern fabrics. Their shirts and pants look refined, yet they're stretchy, lightweight, moisture-wicking, wrinkle-resistant, and completely machine-washable. No ironing or dry cleaning. 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And you see this on the Internet where like moderates are like she lost because she was too liberal and the progressive types like she lost because she campaigned too much with this Cheney and she was too moderate. And I think actually the fact that that debate is happening tells you a lot because kind of they're both right in a way. Like one of the weaknesses of the Harris campaign, which was, I think, a lot not her fault, a lot situational, was that like there was a group of kind of small, but like not nothing, a group of left leading folks that thought that she was an establishment moderate shill. And there were some moderate voters that thought that she was like a progressive California liberal. And that's not ideal in politics. when ideal what you're going for is for the progressives to think you're progressive and for the moderates to think you're moderate or on the concert on the right like the same thing for moderate versus conservative trump and obama both kind of figured that out anyway i think that when you look at this ossoff speech you can see where i'm going with this because i think that there's a different way to go about it where maybe you can have more success in appealing to both sides of the coalition let's listen now you remember we were told that maga was for working class americas You remember that? But this is a government of, by, and for the ultra-rich. It is the wealthiest cabinet ever. This is the Epstein class ruling our country. They are the elites they pretend to hate. So prices are up, jobs are going away, Medicaid and school lunches are slashed, nursing homes are getting defunded. If you're Steve Bannon and your pitch was Trump for the forgotten man and woman, how do you sell any of this? Trump was supposed to fight for the working class. Instead, he's literally closing rural clinics and hospitals to cut taxes for George Soros and Elon Musk. he was supposed to end the globalist world police foreign policy instead we're doing war for oil and nation building again and threatening to conquer Greenland he was supposed to drain the swamp instead this is the most corrupt administration of all time and everybody knows it everybody knows it So, look, I think that, A, just the direct effort to try to speak to working class voters is very important. And I think this is good about Zoran and like the Democrats, like you have to try. Like saying the word affordability, affordability is not just like a magic amulet. Like all of a sudden people think you're the affordability candidate if you say affordability a lot, right? Like we have to put some meat on the bone for people and show that you actually do care about it. So like framing the whole thing as like MAGA has betrayed working class voters is good The government is the Epstein class is ruling the country I think it very good I think Ro Khanna might have beaten John Ossoff to the punch on that but good ideas can be shared broadly The Epstein class is good Getting rid of rural hospitals for tax break for Soros and Musk. Just throwing a little Soros dig in there. I like, you know, it's just like a little signal to people, right? That it's like, I don't want tax breaks for my my billionaires either. And then, uh, you know, he gets into the foreign policy stuff where he kind of tries to basically hit Trump from the left on foreign policy, which is not my foreign policy, but I think is smart politics. And you know, where he says, whatever that we were instead of out there doing more for oil and Venezuela. And I just, I feel like you could listen to that and see, okay, if you are in the Atlanta suburbs and you don't like the way that Trump's corruption and norms, like you listen to that and you're like, yeah, I agree with this guy. If you're a working class person that like thought Trump was gonna make things cheaper. You can imagine that person listening to that and saying, Okay, yeah, I agree. I don't know if I'm on board for you yet. But but you're making it you're right. Trump isn't doing it. If you're a lefty, Palestine person, you like you're like, Oh, great. He's going after the whatever the blob. And I think it's authentic to him. I don't know. But to me, I just think it was a good model for like a kind of a combo of issues that doesn't really map exactly onto the never-ending Bernie versus Hillary debate in a way to kind of talk about stuff that will have some appeal. Oh, that's good. And I mean, it also fills what you and I have both been sort of calling for for a year, which is, you know, you can be a moderate on a lot of issues. I think Ossoff is, he's not on the left wing of the Senate Democrats running in Georgia for God's sake, but also be aggressive and a fighter and take on Trump, But then also show that Trump voters got betrayed by Trump. So it kind of gets some of the Trump voters over. The economic populism, I do think, is very important. I mean, it's not quite where I am, probably. It's a pure matter of policy. But on the other hand, it's okay. And some of it's right, incidentally. The moderates who still want to sound like Bill Clinton on economics are just wrong. I mean, I just think they're out of it now at this point. And you've got to sound more like Franklin Roosevelt. that when you've, FDR saved the American middle class and saved an America which produced a massive middle class in the 50s and 60s, he attacked the economic royalists and he attacked, you know, the Epstein class thing is very important, I think. And it also shows that, I mean, Epstein is actually a big issue. Political class seems to keep wanting it to go away, but then it seems like the public's quite interested, you know? Yeah, I think it's impressive. It's impressive. And again, I'm not saying this to pick on Crockett because I honestly, like some people, they want to hear like tangible examples of what I'm trying to say. critiques, and Georgia's a blue state, or a purplish state, excuse me, but particularly in red states, you have to have a coherent message for people that voted for Trump. You have to have a frame, you have to have a message, and when those folks hear about you, there's got to be something about you that you've repeated over and over again that they've learned that would appeal to them. And maybe that is moderating on some cultural issue, like border or cops or whatever, or maybe it's this like maybe it's that i actually care about working class people trump doesn't trump's part of the epstein class and i'm gonna give you like over and over again i'm gonna keep banging that point that like i'm gonna fight for working americans and give examples both of the types of people you're fighting for zone is really good about that and give examples of the types of shit trump is doing that's helping you know the elites whether you know the tax breaks for sorus and musk example so anyway i just think like that is a model that is workable you know the fact that john ossoff and rafael warnock are winning in georgia is not an accident okay like not neither of them are doing like going full resist you know like not you know they're not like waving the bloody shirt as much as i wish at times but like warnock showed up in minneapolis you know like they are demonstrating that they're going to fight while also recognizing that you're in georgia and you got to win over some people that voted for Brian Kemp at minimum, if not Donald Trump. I think having the concrete examples is important. The rural hospitals, you know, I mean, and be tying it to Trump. That is, there's stuff in, I guess, the bill that Trump heralded and that Republicans voted for and passed in Congress that is going to damage, that is damaging rural hospitals. So you really tie it, therefore, not just around Trump, but around the Republican Congress. And also I'll say incumbent, so it's a little different. He's not running against an incumbent, since his challenger is going to be endorsed by Trump and will have phrased this bill, he can say, you want a Republican Congress, you're damaging rural hospitals. I mean, the causality I think is important. It's sort of part of your point about the coherence of the message. Patrick Schmidt, my young friend who's running in Kansas, just filed, I guess, last week. I mean, he says what's powerful when he's begun to go talk to people is the soybeans are rotting in the silos or whatever, and it's due to Trump's tariff policy. It's not just, gee, it's a kind of bad year on the farm. So I think tying it to the particular, reasonably, tying it to a reasonable degree of specificity, to the particular policies of Trump and the particular votes of Republicans in Congress in either going along with Trump and the tax bill, or at least not challenging Trump on tariffs, I think that gives you the real oomph to say, in Schmitt's case, he's running against an incumbent. What's this guy doing? He's doing nothing to represent, to protect Kansas' farmers against Trump, whom he loves and just votes mindlessly in favor of. So I think the democratic message is kind of coming together, don't you think, a little bit among these different candidates? Starting a business means wearing many hats. Designer, marketer, manager, while chasing your vision. Shopify powers millions of businesses with tools to build beautiful stores, create content, and market with ease. From inventory to shipping, everything runs smoothly. If you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. Sign up for your 1 euro trial today at shopify.nl That's shopify.nl Starting a business can be overwhelming. You're juggling multiple roles, designer, marketer, logistics manager, all while bringing your vision to life. Shopify helps millions of business sell online. Build fast with templates and AI descriptions and photos, inventory and shipping. Sign up for your 1 euro per month trial and start selling today at shopify.nl nl that's shopify.nl it's time to see what you can accomplish with shopify by your side i've been told that soybeans don't rot in the silos now i don't know that i'm sorry yeah and i'm betraying my on the west side of new york the west side of new york yeah i mean it's different you know i like words that are evocative you know rotting soybeans is evocative okay and so i like to say that, and I guess Bill has picked it up for me, but since it's spreading, I should say, I've been told on good authority that they don't rot. You get what we're trying to say, though. I'm sure Patrick Schmidt can use the more appropriate words. He knows about soybeans, yeah. Don't hold him responsible for my Upper West Side of Manhattan ignorance about soybeans. The last line of Ossoff's, of the bit that we played there, was also interesting. He was supposed to drain the swamp, but it's the most corrupt administration of all time. And everybody knows it. I think that is also important. And everybody knows it. Like his own people know it. They know they're in on it. Okay. They like it. Like these guys are stealing money and they know that they're stealing money and they like it. And frankly, they're pardoning other people, other friends of theirs that are, that are also stealing money to that point of everybody knows that I did a, I did a video yesterday before the game about Andy McCarthy, your old friend from National Review, who I do want to just credit him straight up. He's doing a five part series on the Trump corruption. And it's behind the paywall in National Review. So I thought it was important for me to bring it out from behind the paywall, give it to the people of YouTube, you know, because you want to get as many people to see that as possible. Again, I think this is telling is that obviously National Review has limited influence. If National Review could sink Trump, they would have already sunk Trump with the Against Trump magazine that they did 10 years ago. But it's meaningful that people are feeling comfortable going out there to say that. And I think that those are ripples that can have impact when it comes to potentially accountability or at minimum just political accountability for the Trump regime. Totally. And you don't know which string you've experienced in some politics, I know, Tim. I mean, you know, which string you pull is going to resonate the most or is going to have the most impact on why. Lutnick and Epstein turning out to be like best buddies and business partners from several different enterprises. And I think over. After he gave a compelling, like sociopathic lie, like the type of lie, like George Costanza lie, that was like that had all this detail. It's like I only went to his house the one time. I saw that there was a massage table instead of a kitchen table. And it was so disgusting. I went with my wife. She told me never to talk to him again. like he told like a very long fake story about about an imaginary one time that he met epstein and was too grossed out to ever talk to him again and yeah now it turns out they're business partners and he's one of the major sources of corruption i would believe don't you think in the trump cabinet so it sort of all fits together you know yeah well i mean wickoff seems like is at the top of the list yeah but but no the latinx kids are also making bank right now so they're their best year ever in 2025 to let Nick Kitsch, you know, their best returns ever. That was just what a lucky break. No, it's Trump's restored meritocracy. It's good. You know what I mean? And it's really, I think he said that in the tweet about attacking Super Bowl entertainment, you know, right? Yeah. All right, Bill Crystal. Thank you so much, sir. We'll be seeing you back here next Monday. Everybody else will be back tomorrow for another edition of the show. We'll see you all then. Peace. The Bulldog Podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brow. Starting a business means wearing many hats. Designer, marketer, manager, while chasing your vision. Shopify powers millions of businesses with tools to build beautiful stores, create content and market with ease. From inventory to shipping, everything runs smoothly. If you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. Sign up for your one euro trial today at Shopify.nl. That's Shopify.nl. Starting a business can be overwhelming. You're juggling multiple roles, designer, marketer, logistics manager, all while bringing your vision to life. Shopify helps millions of business sell online. Build fast with templates and AI descriptions and photos, inventory and shipping. Sign up for your one euro per month trial and start selling today at shopify.nl. That's shopify.nl. It's time to see what you can accomplish with Shopify by your side.