445-How Floret Flower Farm Grew Into a Successful Business, with Erin Benzakein-Encore Presentation

Hey everybody, it's Joe. It's Thanksgiving Week, and actually Thanksgiving Day if you're catching this on the day this podcast goes live. So we are bringing you one of my favorite encore episodes from the past. It's one for you to just sit back and enjoy as you are hopefully able to relax right now a bit more than usual at least. Today I have queued up for you my conversation with Erin Benzikine, also known as Florette. For most of you, she needs no introduction as she is an international gardening and flower farming rock star. And if you don't know her yet, you will be drawn in quickly to her down to earth good nature. This is a success story where you are just cheering on the key character from the very start. And I know you're going to enjoy this no matter where your core interest in gardening are. So with no further ado, here's my conversation with Erin. Hi everybody. This is Joe Lample, the Joe Behind Joe Gardener, and welcome to The Joe Gardener Show. We have a very special episode for you today, and I am excited to share this one with you. My guest today is someone that many of you already know and love. Her name is Erin Benzikine. If the name sounds familiar, but you just can't quite place it, if I said Florette, suddenly the connection is made. Erin and her husband Chris founded Florette Flower Farm and Skagit Valley, Washington, not far from Seattle. The Florette brand is internationally recognized for many reasons. Erin's design and writing work has won many awards, including as a New York Times best selling author of three books and as the executive producer of Growing Florette, the Emmy nominated documentary television series from the Magnolia Network about Erin and Chris, the Florette team and the farm, beautifully documented over two seasons and definitely something to watch if you haven't yet. And now Florette Farm has made its first documentary, Gardening in a Warzone. It's an incredible film about Ala, a Ukrainian gardener, photographer and seed grower, supporting her family by selling the rare seeds that she collects from her small garden, literally in a warzone. Erin has helped growers from more than 50 countries build flower-based businesses and gardens through Florette Online Workshop. And probably many of you listening today follow Florette Online and likely have some of her seeds, Florette originals of Dahlia, Zinnia and Salosha, soon to be sown in your own garden. Erin's passion and guiding force is simply to get more flowers out into the world. Erin and Chris, with the help of a great team, have built a huge business. And as impressive as that is, starting from nothing over 20 years ago, the success of their business as most people would define it has not overshadowed their definition of success, measured not by the size of their business or how fast it's grown, but rather in Erin's words, success is measured by the impact that her efforts are making through an expression and extension of our souls. So that is what I want to make sure that doesn't get lost in this conversation with Erin today. She has a great story and we will certainly hear that today, along with some things that you may not know about through their 20 plus years of work trying to figure it all out, starting and growing a business as flower farmers. I am very excited to bring you my conversation with Erin Benzikin, a.k.a. Florette, a Florette flower farm. I think you're really going to enjoy this one. And as we get started, thanks to our sponsor for today's episode, the Ultimate Gardening Sheet. And, by the way, now through the end of the year only, get the Pro Series bonus items at no extra cost. That includes the stainless steel carabiner, the UV resistant garden marker, and a stack of plant tags, all designed to fit perfectly in every Ultimate Gardening Sheet. It's a $15 value, so take advantage of these bonus items while you can. Every gardener has that one thing they wish existed to make their work easier. For me, it was a way to carry my three most important tools, my pruners, soil knife, and micro snips comfortably and securely right by my side. I searched for years, but it simply didn't exist. So I co-created it. That's how the Ultimate Gardening Sheet was born. It's handcrafted in North Carolina from durable leather and built to last. It hugs your side, moves with you, and keeps your tools safe and always within reach. No more lost pruners, no more juggling, and no more unnecessary trips back to the shed. This sheath has truly transformed the way that I work in my garden, and I think it will do the same for you. To learn more or to order your own, head over to joegardener.com slash UGS. That's joegardener.com slash UGS. Aaron, what a pleasure to take some time with you today to learn about your story and some of the behind the scenes things. You just have so much to share, and so many people love what you do, and love you, and Chris and your team, and we feel like we've gotten to really know you through your candidness and your willingness to share. So I'd love to just start off with your story. Everybody has a great story, but you have an exceptionally great story. And start where you would like, but I would love to hear where this love of flowers came from and how that has evolved to the next big step, I guess. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Well, before we get into it, though, I just have to say how happy I am to be here and how grateful I am that we're having this conversation and what a many, many years fan I've been of your work and your show. And Chris, our favorite episode is the behind the scenes one where you showed how you made an episode. Oh. Watch that way too many times. So we're huge fans. This is really exciting. Thank you. Thank you very much. Yeah. Yeah, so we started off, Chris and I were high school, sweethearts. We met each other at boarding school. We've known each other a very, very long time. And our dream was always to, we worked in the city, we lived in the city, and we wanted to get out and move to the country. And when our kids were born, we just wanted to have a more kind of wholesome, slower-paced life, something more connected to nature. We really just wanted to raise them in a more wholesome environment. So we left Seattle when our kids were really small and we moved to the country. And Chris was working full-time. I was home with the kids and trying to figure out, what the heck am I going to do all day besides just being with the kids? I'm so energetic and passionate and I love growing things. But how can I, like, what do I want to be when I grow up? What do I want to do? So I tried out a lot of different business ideas. I had 100 chickens at one point, trying to do a rainbow egg business. I planted an orchard to do a cider business, but I didn't really think of how many years it would take for those trees to mature. I grew vegetables. You know, I just, I tried everything in our backyard. And eventually I stumbled onto flowers. So flowers were a part of my childhood and I loved them. And my great-grandmother, when I would go spend time with her in the summer, would have me go pick bouquets, bring them into her bedside table. And so when she passed away, I planted sweet peas, which were her favorite flower in my garden. And they were like the beginning of everything. They bloomed so incredibly that first year. I cut a bouquet of them, you know, took them to the neighbors, gave them away to everybody. And then I got my first official flower order for $5. This is great. Right. So all of this started with the $5 jar of sweet peas and it's become what it is today, many, many years later. But yeah, it all started with something very simple. Yeah. It was funny when I heard that story. You took that, I think you took that bouquet up to the person's front door and I think you said you want to do like a ding dong dash or something where you drop it over. Totally. I just wanted to drop it and go. I was so nervous. And she opened the door and then I didn't know what to do. So I just pushed the sweet peas at her. And then she took like a big, you know, she inhaled and her eyes filled with tears and she started telling me stories of her childhood and my Grammy had just passed away. And so my eyes are full of tears. And like it really struck me in that moment how quickly we connected, even though we're total strangers, but it was through nostalgia, memories and flowers. So that's when I really knew like this is what I want to do. I don't know what that looks like. I don't know what that means, but flowers and me, there's something there. No doubt. And then I also loved where you talked about when you, after your great-grandmother died, that was your inspiration. And then you planted a two rows of sweet peas, I think in your backyard or your new house and you spread her ashes for good luck. I think it worked. And they were like, I've never grown sweet peas as amazing as that first crop. So yeah, Grammy's still here with me, you know, like that's the beginning of it all. Wow. Wow. Yeah. So at some point, I mean, there's a lot, there's a lot of fill in the blanks that we won't be able to cover today. But how long ago was it, Aaron, from those early, early days where Chris is doing his job, you're trying to figure out what you're going to do to when you really got serious with the flower business? So we've been growing flowers for like kind of professionally, but a lot of it, like, you know, experimenting the beginning for about 20 years. So a lot of people think this was somehow overnight. It was not very slow, steady, consistent growth. And we really started to get serious about it in 2008. So I mean, it's been a bit of time. And we started out as flower farmers selling bouquets and bunches of flowers. Our big customer was Whole Foods. We delivered flowers all over the Pacific Northwest. And then that evolved into teaching and writing books and then a seed company. And so it's evolved, but we really got our start as flower farmers. Yeah. And when you bought your land where you're at right now, what is that? It's in Skagit Valley. And yeah, we're in Skagit Valley, so we're about an hour north of Seattle. And it's some of the best farmland in the United States. It's incredible. It's this little tiny, beautiful pocket of magic. Yeah. And is it what, 24 acres, I think? Something like that? It's 24 acres now, but for the first 12 to 15 years of our growing career, we grew on two acres. That's it. And we only recently were able to buy the neighbor's farm and expand. So we got to buy the property next door. But we've been doing most of what we've done on a very tiny piece of ground. Wow. And it's not easy work. And you've said this, I've heard you say this, and we have a mutual friend that's confirmed this, but you've described yourself as an extreme introvert. Is that right? Yes, very extreme. Like I could, I could just be out in the garden for the rest of my life and never talk to anyone. And it'd be just fine. Like I'm, I'm shy in groups, very introverted. So it's easier to be with a camera than it is to be with a group of people. I don't know what it is about that. I get it because I would describe myself as an introvert too. And I think a lot of people that hear you say that can't believe that that's how you describe yourself because you don't come across that way at all. But being an introvert myself, I know that when you're asked to do things that you're not comfortable with, that's not an easy thing to say yes to. So my question to that is when Magnolia, I guess I'm fast forwarding a lot here, but when Magnolia network or whoever it was that came to ask you to do the documentary where you're going to be on camera for a lot of time, maybe you've already given me the answer when you said, you know, talking to a camera. Isn't the same as maybe being in a group of people, but still how did that? Was that a hard decision for you? I guess based on you knowing you. Yeah, I was very, it all depended. So we had this amazing opportunity. Magnolia said that, you know, we had just bought the farm and it was this raw piece of ground and I knew it wanted to become a place and I was going to start the process of developing the land. And so we started having that conversation. I'm like, that would be an amazing story to follow. Like it would be, we're going to do a lot. Like this would be really cool. But I didn't know like what would that, we're very private. Even though we do share openly about a lot of things, our personal life is very private and I'm very introverted. And so we spent a lot of time thinking about what is that going to mean for our life and, you know, like just really considering it. But what was so amazing is that we got to work with this wonderful production company from Portland. It was, it was a match made in heaven. If it had been anybody but them, we would never have done it. It was like they were great people. We really trusted them as a small team and we just kept it like really tight and we kind of all sort of pinky sore from the beginning. Like we're going to tell a real and honest story. Nothing is going to be manufactured. And what we also were able to set really great boundaries. Like we don't want to do a lot of time with our family or there were things that were off limits from the beginning and everyone respected that. But weirdly, I have a very easy time with a camera, but I have a very hard time with people in real life. So I don't know what that is. So I get to know a lot of people, but I don't have to go into a large group. Yeah. Yeah, I get it. And maybe it's something about just talking to that little round lens that's on either the phone or the camera. And fortunately that translates and it certainly does for you. And I do think it has to depend on who is behind the camera. The cinematographers that I've worked with, they're all like the most peaceful, grounded, chill people and they just like put you at ease and you forget that the camera is there. So I think that has a lot to do with it. You're just like, oh, I'm just talking to a friend and you forget that you're being recorded. Yes. On that note, and these are all on the fly comments or questions is I'm listening to your answers. And now, you know, obviously Chris is with you all the time and he's the one behind the camera much of the time. And clearly you're comfortable with him being your camera guy, right? I mean, you are, you are you and he's letting you be you, which is really nice. Cause then that's the, those natural moments just really come through even those long pauses where you are just out there soaking in the scenery and watching the birds fly over and he's just letting that moment happen. And I think that's really the most magical, some of the most magical times of watching all of that. Yeah. You just get, I feel that I can be unguarded and completely myself. Yeah. He's so grounded and peaceful and calm that just we're just in the moment, which is incredible. Like, I think it's sort of a one in a million combination. Like it's not normal or common, but it's, it's been pretty amazing. Cause he did not, he was, he taught himself photography. And then when we started filming season one, all the big cameras were here and everybody's working on the crew. And Chris is just like sort of looking over their shoulder in the beginning. And then you'd see him carrying a tripod and then he's holding the boom. And then he's just sort of like slowly worked his way in and then eventually he's holding a camera and then he's got the easy rig on. Yes. So then, and then he's refilming on things that we needed me to be really calm or just totally unguarded. They would have him be behind the camera. And so it just gradually happened. And then in season two, he was, he got to film a bunch of it. So it's incredible and it hasn't been that many years and he just, but it was this amazing team of blue chalk media down in Portland that we got to work with. They just took him under their wing and taught him everything. And he's, he's a quick study. That's fantastic. So you two make a great team, but you also have a great team. Yes. And definitely I want, I want to give a shout out to Jill because she seems to be your sidekick and a lot of the, the things that we see. And she's obviously a very important person and clearly a dear friend, but that introduction story was kind of fun to hear. And could you just give us a recap on how you all met? So Jill and I were, she is one of my first flower friends and I had delivered an arrangement to elect a local little cheese shop and I'd put my business card. I was trying to grow my business and I didn't know what I was doing. So I made a big bouquet and I put my little business card out and she had picked it up. And I think a year later called me and wanted to order flowers. She was a florist at the time and I was a farmer and she left me this long rambling message trying to buy flowers for me. And I was so nervous and so excited. She had a $500 budget. It was the most I had ever sold. And so I called her back and we met in the Denny's parking lot and my little kids were fighting in the back seat, which was so mortifying. And I had this car full of flowers and I was just like, you know, trying to make a good impression and Jill is like such a loving laid back, funny person. And she didn't even care. And she loved the flowers. She got all, you know, tears in her eyes and we were just like immediate friends and we've worked together ever since. And it was our dream all those years ago to someday be able to like actually work together. Like could we put this be something that could be like a real job. And we've written books together. We've shown shows together. We've taught workshops together. I mean, we've done it all. Yeah. Jill's right there through, through all of it. Is she the creative director? Is that her title? Yeah. And she's like a combo. I feel like she's everything. Right. Like she's, she's involved in every single important, meaningful thing that leaves Florette, Jill has had her hands on it. Mm hmm. That's why I ask, and it clearly seems that way. It's hard to even have a title for somebody like that. You know, they're kind of the, totally. She's like everything. And yeah. Yeah. And wasn't it funny when I think she said initially, when you all were starting your conversation, I think she was just like, just let me come do something for you. Let me just start, you know, no matter what that was. And then look where it's evolved. Totally. She's like, just let me help you because I tend to make things very big and complicated very quickly. Yeah. And Jill makes things simple and organized and calm. And so she's like, just let me help you just a couple of hours a week. Like I can help rein this chaos in. And she did. Yeah. And she's been reigning it in ever since. Yes. So let's talk about some of the farm life because as we get into a topic I want to discuss in just a minute about, you know, your seed sales and your big sale that you just came off of recently, which was huge. Um, you know, the flowers are pretty, the shots of the farm are gorgeous, but, you know, it's not all puppy dogs and kittens, you know, it's, it's not easy to run a farm. And I think you're working roughly 50 weeks out of the 52 a year. You all, and you're working your tails off. Mother nature has mother nature's way. And you're just trying to make the best of it. So my question there is, um, there's a lot involved that people don't see about the challenges of the farm, but thanks to the documentary, a lot of people have learned much about that. But one of the things that caught me was your, your, uh, your nightly farm walks, you know, you and Chris get out there after dinner and you walk your farms. And, uh, and I related to this in my small little way here, but you kind of dread that nightly walk in some ways. And a lot of people would think, Oh, that would be so I would love to have that farm walk every night. But when it's your farm and all of that's on the line, it takes on a different feel, right? Yeah. So, I mean, we never want to go walk the farm. It's always this like, cause you just know you're going to find something. Irrigation is going to be blown off the spigot and water. So we shooting everywhere. The crows will have pecked holes in a greenhouse or you know, you're just going to see all the things that need your attention. Even though we have this amazing team of people helping us take such good care of the farmer, it's always, there's something broken, something wrong. So it starts out tense. I have my notebook. We're making a list. But what's crazy is by the end of it, always by the end of it, we're calmer, we're more relaxed, we're more grounded. And it's like this reminder of why we're doing this. Like you can, as you get to the back of the farm and you get to the meadow and you're like, okay, all right, relax a little bit. It's just like it, um, it's like a medicine that you don't want to take. But by the end, it's always wonderful. Right. You know, it's good for you and you have to take it and end up being good. In the time that you've been on your current farm, you know, you've seen a lot of changes, a lot of growth, many changes in many ways. But one of the things that you, I know you've made note of and commented on and acted on is just in recognition of the impact that the climate has had lately on your farm as well as everybody else's, but you're seeing it firsthand and you're having to make some changes. So maybe, um, some of the things that you have done tangibly on your farm to try to work with nature or, you know, counteract some of those challenges. Can you share some of that with us? Yeah. So as we have gone about developing and planting the farm, we are really planning for the future, knowing that the planet is heating up, that things are changing, the climate is changing, weather is just more extreme overall. So we have planted, at this point, it's over a mile of hedgerows around the entire property. We have different, you know, we have solid species hedgerows, like they're more like hedges, like in England, we also have mixed shrub hedges, we have native plantains, we have a lot of different plant combinations that we're trying to see what to do the best, what, you know, get established the fastest. The benefits of the hedgerows are that they slow the wind down, so they're going to help with erosion. And they also provide habitat for all of the wildlife and songbirds that we're wanting to bring to the farm to help with, you know, pest disease issues, all kinds of stuff. So we're really wanting to encourage, you know, that we want this place to be a home for all of the creatures that want to live here. We also have broken the farm up rather than one big farm into a bunch of smaller blocks. And so we rotate the blocks, some, you know, say three of the 10 blocks are in production at one time and the others are in cover crops. So we're really working to put as much possible back into the soil. It was very depleted when we got it. And so we're investing a lot in soil. And then we have a lot of hoop houses and different structures because we live in a very wet climate here in the Pacific Northwest, we get a ton of rain. And we're trying to grow crops and things that don't totally love our climate. Zinnia specifically, which is like what I'm breeding. So we have a lot of covered structures to help, you know, just make a nicer environment for plants, less rain. Um, and then let's see what else we're doing. Just so much we make our own compost. We're doing, we planted what we're calling pollinator strips, which is long perennial plantings to attract pollinators, both to help pollinate our seed crops, but then also just provide these like nectar and pollen banks for as many pollinators as we possibly can. So we're doing a lot of experimentation to see what works and what doesn't. And a lot hasn't worked, but most of it has. And it's just, it's really exciting to get to experiment on this kind of a scale and then get to share what we're learning with others. Yes. You did mention that, uh, with the good that you thought you were doing, you know, you had the challenges too, like, uh, whatever was coming and like kind of chewing through your irrigation lines or getting into the mulch to get to the critters in there. And so, but you, you learn to live with it and it kind of balances out in the long run, doesn't it? Totally. And I think that's like so much of farming, you know, you do what you can with what you have, you try to control the parts that you can. And then you have to have to like go with it on the things that you can to learn from it. And, you know, if we want to be more closely connected to nature, we also have to embrace all of that uncertainty and all of the change and all of the, you know, so it's, it's a balancing act. It's not that it's not frustrating or sometimes devastating when it's happening. I mean, we've had some of the most harsh weather in just the last handful of years that we've experienced in all the time that we've been farming, sort of one thing after another from drought to smoke to just like the wettest spring on record. And we lost more than half of our crop. Ooh. Um, it was brutal. It would look, I felt like throwing in the towel, but at the same time, like, I think it's good for people to see that this is farming. This is when you go get your flowers or your seeds or your strawberries or, you know, whatever you're getting, just know that people behind these crops are working so hard, but there's so much that they can't control. Yeah. As you, as you say several times, they're touched by everything that you grow is touched by many hands. And that's many hands. Yeah. That can't be under emphasized. When you got your land, even though that was prime farm country, that is coveted land in the world, that some of the best farmland there is, your soil, when you bought that farm was less than ideal, wasn't it? Yeah. So we are on a sandbar. Um, the river would wash over and leave a lot of sand. The soil is very sandy here, which is just fine, except that it's low in organic matter, but the way that the farm had been being grown, like the, the, the treatments and approach that had used was purely chemical. So spraying every few weeks, lots of herbicides, fungicides, nothing ever put back into the soil. And then it was a blueberry farm and all of the plants were on just a straight drip of nitrogen through the irrigation. And when we ended up digging a lot of those plants out, all of the roots had been burned by the chemical fertilizers. So when we got our soil tested, we had so far to go to get it to a place where we could start to heal that and then get it back into good, you know, working order. So it's been a huge, uh, investment of time and just like organic matter to, to get the soil, but we just got our soil tests. Um, this morning we were talking about it and we're like, aren't offers are looking so good. Like things are heading in the right direction. But, um, yeah, it's been the, the farm is coming around, but it, yeah, it was definitely like in a little bit of rough shape. And it just takes time, but, but it's all in your case. And in everybody's case, it's just doing what you have to do, but in your case, bringing in lots of organic matter and just constantly replenishing that. And yeah, manure, compost, cover crops, wood chips, you know, just anything we can get our hands on and mulching as much as possible, leaving, you know, fields to just rest and, you know, just being cover crop. And it really does work. It just takes time. Yes. Does take time. Yeah. Fortunately, although gardeners are impatient, we also, the reality of it is we know we need to be patient to get the results. Yeah. Okay. So now I want to, I want to talk about your, um, your farm evolution and Aaron, when you bought this property, you and Chris bought this property, were you already a seed farmer versus a flower farmer selling flowers? Was it always seed or did that transition at some point when you got there? So we were flower farmers for the first, I'd say 15 years of our journey. And the seed growing actually was, it came about because I started breeding flower, new flower varieties and had to figure out like, how do I do this? How do I save the seed from it? Like, how does this all work? So the seed part of our, our path has only been maybe in the last six or seven years. So we're newer to that than we are. So yeah, started as flower farmers and now we're seed farmers and also flower breeders. Was it recently that you retired your seed line that you had been selling to now just go with the floret originals? Yeah. So we recently made the, the big decision and the transition from like we've, for about nine years, we have offered this full line of beautiful flower seeds. I mean, it's, it's been an incredible offering, an incredible run. But as the breeding and the new varieties have taken up more and more of our space and time, and I'm so passionate about it, we really had to make a choice. Like I can't do it all. Can't do it all well. And the breeding needs our full focus. And I really believe that the work that we're doing with it is going to make a big difference in the flower industry and for home gardeners. So we decided to set down our existing seed company and, you know, send our customers to all these other wonderful small companies, family owned, you know, seed farms that they could find things from and then really put all of our energy into developing new varieties and teaching people how to save their own seed. Yes. And you just said a very big thing there when you said, what we're doing is going to be a big thing for flower farmers and home gardeners. But there's a lot behind what you mean by that. And I'd like you to elaborate on that because I know that, you know, a lot of people, especially with the cut flower industry, a lot of that comes from overseas and their hybrids and they're built for shipping and not, you know, not for pollinator friendliness or whatever. But open pollinated is what you're talking about when you are selling seeds now from what you have that stable, they can buy your seeds and then they can save those seeds and continue that legacy without dealing with the fact that if it were a hybrid, it wouldn't come true to seed if they saved it. Exactly. So pretty much every flower variety that is making it onto the market at this point is the hybrid, meaning, you know, it's not something that we can ever save our seed from, which hybrids have a lot of positives, you know, they're very vigorous, they often are more disease resistant, you know, they're very uniform. So in farming, you know, you're looking for that uniformity, you know, there are benefits to it, but you can't save your seeds. You have to buy new ones every single year and you're dependent on these large companies, you don't know where they come from, you don't know who grew them. And I just wanted to, as part of our breeding program, really focus on developing varieties that are open pollinated so that home gardeners can save their own seed, they can use it in their own breeding efforts. It's great for the pollinators. There's just like so many wonderful benefits. And then you never have to buy a seed again. If you don't want to, you can just learn how to save your own and, you know, keep that cycle going. As a seed seller, people listening to that might think, well, that doesn't make sense if she's a business owner, a seed seller. Yeah. Um, but I read between the lines and I think that that has to do with what I think your bigger picture is all about. And that's getting more flowers out into the world. And especially now in the face of climate change, you know, what can you do to provide the most appropriate flowers in those gardens? Is that, am I on target there? Absolutely. I mean, to me, I know that I have succeeded if someone has learned something and they are more independent, they're more empowered, they're, you know, able to go off and do the thing that they want to do. So I don't want them to depend on our company or on me for anything. I want to teach them what I know, give them the tools or the supplies or the seeds that can use seeds from anywhere. It doesn't have to be from us and learn how to do something new and be more empowered and more excited. So I feel like we've succeeded if everybody is able to save their own seeds and they can go about their business and I just, I love the abundance of it. But yeah, no, I know people are like, you're crazy. Why would you do that? Or why would you focus on breeding varieties that are open pollinated versus hybrids because then you can't protect them. You can't keep them, you know, but that's what I believe in. And I, yeah, so we're just trying to be part of the positive changes, like the part of the solution. I don't want to keep continuing the problem. I love that. Would you mind, for those that aren't quite sure the difference between a hybrid and an open pollinated, could you just give us your quick explanation if I hate to put you on the spot, but I've heard you do it and you're really good with it. Just what a hybrid is versus how do you stabilize to get to an open pollinated? Well, let's see. I'm not, since my background is not in science, I'm not going to explain it in a very scientific way, but in the flower world, let's take Zinnias, for example, because that's something I've been focusing on breeding. There are a handful of hybrid varieties that are on the market. They would be the Zowie's or the Uproar series. And if you've ever grown them, they're fantastic. They're super healthy. They're very vigorous and they're very uniform. But the way that they were created, they're created by crossing two different varieties together secretly because you don't know what the two parents are. And the seed from those grow these amazing flowers. But if you save the seeds from those plants in your garden and plant them out next year, they will not come back true no matter what you do. So it has this kind of built in, you just have to buy again. You have to go back to the company and buy again. The Zinnias that we're working on are they're a stabilized variety. So while they're open pollinated, they still will come back true. But over many years of development, like in the beginning, maybe just a handful of the flowers that are in that row that I'm working on might be true. And then I work on that the next year, a little bit more true, a little bit more true. And by six or seven years in, they're very stable and uniform. But if you save the seeds off of those, as long as there's not other Zinnias around, they will come back true. And so it's just it's such a gift because you can save your own seeds. Perfect. And then you never have to buy them again. That's right. You did a very good job of explaining that. And I wasn't surprised. Yeah, you seem to be a little unsure of yourself, but you nailed it. So thank you for explaining that for our listeners too. Yeah, totally. For those who didn't know. And so on your big sale that you just came off of, you were featuring what? Three different types of flowers? Yeah. So we had 26 varieties total that we've released as part of our big debut. And we had Zinnias, Selosia and Dahlia's. And so exciting to get to see all these varieties go out into the world. And then four of the Zinnias that we released were grown and bred in collaboration with another flower breeder down in California, Corey from Don Creek Farm. So that was really fun because she's this amazing breeder, but she has a little tiny, tiny backyard scale and we have land. And so we worked together on that and could help take her babies and give them into the world. Yeah, that's wonderful. And that's something else that obviously you're passionate about is working with other flower farmers to help them be successful too, which is great. Absolutely. And seed companies and farmers. And I just, I love helping make connections, like being the connector between the people who need or want something and the people who have it. And if I can just help play matchmaker, like that's my very favorite thing to do. I like that. Are you going to have different species in the future? Are you going to stick with these three or do we know yet? Um, we're working on other things, but it's hard to know like how successful we be working on Yaro and flocks and there's other things, but I feel like these, these three groups, we kind of have a, we've made a lot of progress. So there's a lot more Zinnias behind the ones. So we released a 10 or 11 varieties of Zinnias as part of this first offering, but we have over 130 varieties of Zinnias alone in the works here. Who knows how many of those will really be something, but they all show promise. Which is very overwhelming. Well, it is for anybody, but I think you, you know, we talked about your, uh, description of yourself on being an extreme introvert. But I also think that whether that's a part of what makes you so successful because breeding is not all that easy to do. And especially when you're dealing with that many crosses and tests and trials. And so if you were to describe yourself beyond just an extreme introvert, are you analytical or very organized or very systematic because that is a strange combination. Like we always joke, like I'm, I don't want, I love structure and I hate boundaries. Like I want to, I don't want to schedule, but then I want everything organized. So it's like this. I want to be free, but then I also want to work. I want order, but my, the way my mind works, everything, I see everything in pictures. So I use a lot of paper, I take notes, I write everything that anyone is saying to me down because something about seeing the words being written, then I can remember them. And I have kind of a photographic memory. So you should see how many pieces of paper are all around the rooms. So that's how I can hold all that information in my mind, but some, I don't know what it is, but when I look at a problem or a group of plans or really anything, I start to just see patterns and start to sort patterns. And so that's how flower breeding has gone for me. It's like all the different varieties and I just start matching them up. I start seeing patterns and working with those. Is this, I don't even know exactly how it all happens, but I, I think the, I don't know if it's success, we've made a lot of progress, but I think it's because I've done things my way, the way that works for me, my own weird, strange, confusing, complicated way, but it works. So I'm just going to go with it. Clearly it works. And, and I love that you just kind of winged it there on trying to explain how that works for you, but you did a good job. And it's, it's fascinating to hear that. And so when you started this business with Chris, pursuing your passion around flowers and being around flowers and growing them, you know, who knew then where you would be today. You've come a very long way. In fact, you even said bigger than your wildest dreams, something like that. Yeah. And so now you've got to be facing decisions every day that are coming at you rapidly and that are big opportunities and small opportunities. And so I know that one of your core missions is to get more flowers into the world. And is, is there something else that shares that one of those top positions for what you want to do looking forward with your business? And well, I'll just stop right there and let you try to answer that one because I'll have a follow up. The biggest thing that matters to me is getting to help try to make a difference, try to solve problems. And we're in this incredible position where we have so many wonderful people that we're connected with and so many people listening. And we don't take that for granted. And I really want to be part of solving some of these bigger problems now that we've gotten past, you know, the beginning years of business and figuring out what we want to do. And, you know, all those struggles that you experienced in the early years, we have new problems and new struggles, but now our energy is really being devoted to education. How can we, how can we learn? Take what we're learning, break it down into very simple steps and then share it with other people? How can we look at what's not working in an industry or in small business or whatever the area is? How can we take that apart and use our minds and our experience to figure out what the problems are and then solve them? Like my biggest pet peeve is when everyone just stands around and complains about what's not working, but no one takes responsibility for trying to figure out how to solve it. And so even if we make lots of mistakes, even if it's a bumpy ride, I want to be the ones that weighed in and go like, well, we're going to try. We're going to try to help make things better. I don't know if it's going to work. I don't know if we're going to make fools out of ourselves or if we're going to fail, but man, let's at least give it a try. So I just want to, I want to use our platform and our energy and our talents to try to make the world a better place. No big deal. But it's what I want to do. On that note, the documentary that you did, uh, gardening in a war zone, that was that one of those examples of like, because that didn't start out as an idea of like, I'm going to, I'm going to reach out this person to do a documentary. You reached out to, is it Ella? Ella? What's, what was her name? Ella. Ella? Yeah. And I think it was going to just be a post, a blog post or something about, and then you realize it was much bigger than that. And so this, your first documentary emerged from that story. I know it's not amazing. So Ella is, um, a Ukrainian gardener who also saves seed and she specializes in climatic. And so I found her because I was searching for new varieties and thought, oh my gosh, she has so many wonderful things. And I think we should share about her on our blog. Like we could send out a newsletter and maybe she'll get a little bit of business or something. And then the more we got to know each other, the more, and the more I understood her story, she's such an amazing person is doing such amazing things. And it's so unbelievably inspiring. So Rob Finch, who was the director of Bull Seasons of Growing Floret, we have been working together more recently. We've started kind of our own venture and we're like, we want to tell stories that matter about people that are inspiring and wonderful. And so Ella was our first big story that we wanted to follow. And all of the stars aligned for that to happen. Like we still don't know how it even came together. Most of it was Zoom. He taught her how to film herself over Zoom. And then we hired a cinematographer there to spend two days with her and we were able to create a beautiful short documentary film about her. And it was just featured in the New York Times. I know. So, is that amazing? Yes, it was amazing. And our friend, Margaret Roach, was the one that wrote that. Yes. And that was a great story. And just kudos to you for getting that, helping to get that story out there about her. What a, what an amazing story. And for those that are listening, of course, we're going to have the links to everything that Erin is talking about, to her documentary, Erin's documentary, to the documentary she's just talking about for Ella and, and so much more. But hang in there. And that's just on the show notes for joegardner.com. So you'll find it. So I guess that's the first, but probably not going to end there. Do we have another one in the works or yet, or is that to be determined? We're working on a number of different ideas and projects. Um, we're waiting. Yeah. Like we're, we're in process, but we're, we're at the point right now, figuring out like, what exactly does this want to be? We know what we want to do, but what does that look like? So it's that kind of scary first beginnings. Um, but we've all worked together for so many years that we, at least we have that, and we have a very eager audience out there who wants more beautiful stories. And so now it's just figuring out exactly what we're going to tell. Do you all keep in touch? Ella? Yeah. We were, we were going back and forth with Ella almost daily. Oh, that's nice. And we, what was really fun is that we offered, she wrote a book about Clematis and did a really wonderful job and it was an e-book. And so we offered it in our shop and all the proceeds from the book go directly to Ella. And so I have my own personal goals. I'm like, all right, we're going to sell Ella's book. And it's been so much fun. So I was reported into her with like our weekly numbers, but, um, yeah, she's, she's hanging in there. She's doing what she can, but, but the, the film and the support from all of the amazing people who bought her seeds and her e-book and sent well wishes and, you know, donated money and everything like her family is going to make it through the winter. As long as they're, you know, safe from the war, um, they had, they were completely supported by this amazing community of gardeners. Yeah. So yeah, really wonderful. Gardeners are amazing like that. Yeah, they are very generous people. They are. And we've really covered a lot of great things, but I would love to end with a couple questions to you. And maybe if I could just read back what I made note of when I was kind of preparing for this, and it really resonated with me, but I love what you said, and I'd love to hear you elaborate on it. So I'm going to try to rephrase what I think you said and, uh, bear with me for a second. And then, and then we can pick up the conversation. But one of those solo shots where you're sitting on a stool and one of those beautiful backgrounds and you're thinking back on, I guess you're reflecting on how you started and where you got to today as a business compared to just being outside growing flowers. And so I wrote this down and I'm going to read it. So I want to mess it up. You said something that was interesting to me when you were describing the business side of your company versus the outside flower growing side, referring to the business end of kind of like being a factory. You said it seems a little too big, too much control, a little too perfect compared to what it's like when you're out in the field with the flowers. And that feels good to me, but it's like the exact opposite energy. And that feels a little bit off to me. And I'm not loving where we're at with that. And then you said, what I have to keep coming back to is on the inside. Does this feel right? Does this feel like I'm on the right path? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's the dance of being a creative and a business owner of wanting to make things and also having to be responsible. It's like the balancing of the two worlds. And it's something that I have struggled with. I think any small business owner or farmer or creative goes through it, but it's like trying to find that sweet spot between structure and responsibility and creativity and expansiveness. And how do you know when you're on the right path? What is your gauge for if you're doing the right thing? I mean, only you can really know. So it's, yeah, it's as our business has grown, it's gotten very big. And we have a lot of wonderful people that we work with and we have a lot of amazing customers. And it's just a very big universe now that we've created. And I don't ever want to lose the essence of why this all started and what it's all really about. And so very often I try to step back and pause and think about it and refine and fine tune and prune and make different choices just because I want to try to stay true to myself and on the right path. And that comes across and how you just said it just now. Then, you know, in the documentary where you're talking to the camera and clearly there's no script. And, you know, those are the things that are coming out of your mouth. And clearly that's in your heart and your ethos. And then I guess connected to that, one of the last things I made note of that struck me and I thought was very impactful is that oftentimes people describe a successful business as how big it is or how fast it's growing. But that's not how you measure it. You measure it on the impact that you're making based on your efforts. And your business is an expression and extension of your soul. And you have a business that's based in nature, supporting nature, but being run like a factory. So how am I going to connect in the way that I want to and need to with the flowers and the earth? If I'm living so far outside of the natural rhythm and cycle myself, and it seems like you really have your finger on the pulse of that and you're doing those things that you know that you want to really do in spite of what people would describe as incredibly successful company. You're still using your gifts to stick to that core mission. Yeah. Always trying to come back to the why, come back to the soul of it, come back to the heart, keep focused on the North Star. It can be very easy to. There's so much pressure. There's so much noise. There's so many voices. There's so much input. And how do you stay true to yourself and what really matters to you? And that has the ongoing balancing act, you know, but it's a very worthy, it's it's very worth asking yourself those questions. I think at least it is for me. Keep doing what you're doing. A lot of people are being positively impacted by what you are doing. So. It's same, same for you. Like I'm, I'm not exaggerating. Chris and I have watched the episode of you guys making the show so many times. We, that was our dream was to come here. Like, could we be apprentices? Like, could we come and help? We have been such huge fans and what you do and have done over all these years is so incredibly inspiring and you just, you set a very high bar and it's amazing. Oh, thank you for that. And, but right back at you, everything you just said. This was one of those conversations that could have gone on for so much longer. There was so much to talk about and so many interesting things that perhaps we'll get to cover in a future episode. I hope you enjoyed this one as much as I did. And I also hope that you will take some time to visit the show notes for this episode. Lots of important related links to more about Aaron and their work at Floret. The link to their first documentary on YouTube, Gardening in a Warzone. You have got to see that if you haven't yet. And then pictures that Aaron has provided and a lot more. It's all on our website at JoeGardner.com. Just look for the podcast tab. And this is episode number 455. If you'd like to watch this episode on YouTube, I would highly recommend that. It's a really good one for that. And I think you will enjoy it twice as much when you get to see our conversation unfold with Aaron from her farm office. And you could do that on our YouTube channel, Joe Gardner TV for this and all future podcast episodes, if you prefer to watch versus listen, or both on a related note, we have a YouTube channel for my television show, Growing a Greener World, out there for you to watch all 12 seasons of our TV episodes, including the one that Aaron says she and her husband, Chris, watch over and over. And if you want to see that one too, it's episode number 318 behind the scenes. And that's what you're looking for on our YouTube channel, GGWTV. So that's going to do it for today. Happy Thanksgiving. If you're catching this on the first day of its release. And as always, thanks to Amy Prentice, Brendan O'Reilly and Christine LeFond for their hard work on this podcast production team. And thank you for listening today. I love that you do that. Many of you week after week. And if you're brand new, welcome, I'm glad that you're here. And I hope that you'll be back week after week. So if you're not already subscribed, wherever you listen to your podcasts, please add us to your subscription list and we'll be in your playlist every Thursday morning with a new episode, because I will be back here again next Thursday for our next episode of the Joe Gardner show. And I look forward to having you right back here to join me for that. Until then, have a great week, everybody. Take care and I'll see you back here really soon. Thanks for listening to the Joe Gardner show, the podcast where it's all about gardening and learning to grow like a pro, no experience required. For more information, podcasts and how to videos, visit us online at JoeGardner.com.