Fireside Chat for Chapter Four and All of Book One

Hello everybody and welcome to the Fireside Chat for this our chapter 4 of the Wizard Witch and the Wild One. I am your host, Erica Ishae and with me as always by this Fireside. A Briette Iron Guard. Oh, crackle crackle. Let's talk stuff. Oh boy, this whole chapter. Oh, so much to chat with you about and I'm here with Brennan Lee Mulligan. Oh, crackle crackle. So excited to get into all things about chapter 4 of the Wizard Witch and the Wild One. Also an exciting chapter because by definition this is our final chapter of book 1 and therefore this will be our talk back for all of the first 54 episodes of the Wizard Witch and the Wild One. And if you're listening to this, you may not actually be by the Fireside. This is a public talk video. So you guys should know that we do talk backs for each and every episode of the podcast over by the Fireside which is our Patreon where we have lots of goodies and bonus content and awesome stuff. Say it, say it. Say it. Say it what we call it. We call it the Fireside. That's the name of our Patreon. So there's a seat warm and ready for you by the Fireside. If you've gotten here, let's go listen to book 1 and you think, gosh darn these guys tell some good actual play stories. You can come and support our work over on our Patreon for worlds beyond number. Yes. Beautiful. And we've us here for this momentous talk back episode is Lou Wilson. Hey, it's me Lou Wilson. Yes. For those. For those. Oh, and crackle crackle for those of us who normally join us by the Fireside on our Patreon. You know that it is a rare and special thing indeed to get Lou Wilson onto our chats because normally we host quite a number of guests that sound very similar to Lou but are actually good friends of his who are filling in while he is circumnavigating Panama and on his various adventures around the globe. Yes. I like to be here for first. I like to be here for the big ones. This is our first ever book talk back and I just said Panama can wait. I love it. Amazing. I would love to put forward to the August council that I have a hold. A little bit of unfinished business to open our talk back which was from the end of episode 54 talk back but it feels very appropriate for talking about chapter four, talking about book one. Are you allowed to cuss you out about the epilogue now? Cuss me out about the epilogue. We had no idea. We were out of the room for that. We had been reunited in here all in the room. How dare you. You can't keep getting away with this. And yet I do. And I'm like simply doing it. Damn it. That was what. Any curve balls for you. So the again for those listening to this I would assume it would be a hot start to have your first bit of content you're consuming from worlds beyond number. Be the talk back all of book one. But just to reiterate from our friends, it's been two weeks since it dropped in our finale. After if you haven't heard it my god talk about a Nick Fury. I want to talk to you about the Avengers initiative. Yeah. After the end credits after Taylor's dulcet tones. Thank you for listening to worlds beyond number. There are I think six epilogue scenes. Don't be surprised by what you did. Well I just I was running through being like here's all the shit going on in the world that we need to get into or discuss. And yeah, so like like you guys knew that there were going to be there was going to be like a little bit of bonus material in that episode. But were you caught off guard by did we did we did that I think we knew. I think so. I mean, I'm real. Abrea left immediately. So yeah, I think we were under under the gun the entire time we were like we got to get this finished. So a real catch a flight to New York. I had the time my my sworn sobbing. Taylor came and he's like you got three minutes. It's okay. I was present. I was present as you recorded some of these. However, their content I did not know. We know idea. So they were recorded at camp. They were. Yeah, after you had cool. Yeah, I wasn't sure if they were like a like came back and did them later. Fun. But I didn't know how I think I think the thing that there were six was was far beyond. I think I knew I said I knew like conceptually about like two of them, but I think four of them were straight up like what's this now? What's all this then? My personal favorite was the reveal that. Oh, I mean, now God. Opal friend. No, Opal friend was awesome. And if anything, I just felt validated and being like, I should have let this motherfucker go when I had the chance. My bad. I can't believe I'm a little bit of our team. He was going to be on a team. So why not have it be ours? But I think that, oh my God, Will Gallows. That's it. Will Gallows out of the corners in in Rhymer's Bay. That was kind of like, oh shit. All right. Like that one, I got genuinely kind of in a way that I don't often get I have a hard time listening to my own podcast. That is genuine moment. Rob like, oh shit. Oh, it's kind of makes sense because being a crime boss in a port city, like we've established like the history of rum runners in the shroud mountains. Like the singer's seller is literally like again, once again, to me, it's very like court of miracles vibe from Hunter Back of Notre Dame. Like, but to me, the idea that like, who are the friends used very lightly here? Who are the people the Grinot would reach out to in a crisis that maybe they wouldn't be excited to call in a favor from, but desperate times call for desperate measures. And the idea that they're like, we should call in a favor. We've been sending this guy stuff for a long time. We know that he is a business contact of ours from across the sea. Maybe we can get him out to the coast of the empire to help us solve this problem. And then lo and behold, there's Will Gallows meeting, Neif, two people that know Ursula and very different circumstances. Oh, wait. And Arce. We're saying one of the Grinot had also had a little piece of the news because that imagery, I just walk around with that in my heart. I only have so much is, ah, got stop. Anyway, it's cool. It's so cool. It was great. And him in the connecting tissue being bare, the strong, did you say the strongest man and sobery? Yeah. Yes. It was. That's so good. I now I want that that crime boss and Neif, crime boss and little wafe, a little side campaign. Crime boss and wafe. Crime boss and wafe. Yeah. I love the Regina George writing in her burn book of injury watching Arme. I hate her with the flames, flames on the side of my face. It's like, yeah. Now, I was just going to say mine is absolutely whatever is going on with the spirits, Opal Fiend on a throne in the Loki pose and the ink demons and then, Pomeroy and Arme, oh god. Oh, yeah. The spirits are messy. Oh, Pomeroy, don't be a cop who goes to jail. Don't come back. Pomeroy. It was pretty nasty. That was, that was like, I was like, oh, this team does not look as fun as one might hope. You know, like to be, it is like, oh, in that moment, I genuinely was like, okay, I don't need to be his champion. This is kind of like a maze. They, they haven't invested that much in the locker room situation here. Like, it's not the culture. The culture of them. It's too investing culture, yes. Exactly. The man, the culture at the man and blacks on the man and blacks team is not my favorite. It's not, it's not that fun. No. Very tech started out there like, yeah, I was employee three. Yeah, exactly. Oh, you're a jester on the throne. Get out of here. Yeah. Yeah, there's a ping pong table out in the hall. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's a strong claim that as of the resolutions of book one, of named characters, Pomeroy's having the worst time. I think that that is, I have a hard time thinking of anyone who's in a worse position, having a worse material time than Pomeroy, having been dragged to the spirit world after many long years of torturing and capturing. Oh, yeah. Oh, when you go show up in the Moora, you get what you get. Yes. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. What else? There was one the urine one was a banger. Oh, that was the one that I was the worst. Oh, okay. I so like the- Abrea. Yeah. Okay, so the I'm sure would not like this with the urine and grimoire, but you, Abrea, my dear friend by your side. You are in the corner corner. Lauren can do so much better. I like I foundationally don't enjoy grimoire being like a nasty like anti-vaxxer of a lady. I don't like I don't like her vibe. Lauren is a beautiful man of color and I don't need him slumming it with whatever grimoire's whole fucking deal is. I do not like her. I'll be but she's got a whole. You're in the shower. Let's go. Lauren is okay. Okay, called okay, called a man some in the yeah, introducing herself. I ship it. I ship it. I ship it. I know. Are you saying like is the most sorry? There was my there's like a leafboard right behind me as I started talking. Are you in the moment that you're in and the witches are all like linked up? Is that like they're on the same team or is it just that they're like in contractual talks? I think I need to leave you with what you saw. I don't think we even see Lauren's response in this scene, right? We see the three yes votes on the Covenant elders show up save Lauren's ass from the flight of Gouthmai in the Shroud Mountains. And I think what you say it was just this essentially thing like we forget that the whole arc of chapter four was like two to three weeks. So people go from yeah, like where are the witches? When are they going to start the witch war? It's like, hey man, they're cooking two weeks is not a long time. They're doing their thing, right? Bro, I'm passed after two weeks. Yeah, there's a like I'll go get the winner gear out, but like tomorrow, but also because of their connection, Marara's connection to the man in black. And that means we've seen the man in black act. How in concert is Marara with him and thus the witches with him? And now how connected is the man in black to Lauren? Because now they're one degree separated by his side piece. Yes, yes. So I think that you I think you can draw a conclusion that at least under the banner of the man in black, if you if you look at what the information we have is from what was said in chapter three at the concave and what was said in this scene, the network is the man in black under his banner, marches, Naram, orima, Oble Finn, the king of storms, the chalices of rube and that he is actually all that he is in disguise as all of the patrons of the warlocks of rube. We see that he has the ink demons now at his castle with Pomeroy and tow. And of course, his champion wielding the sort of night, Sir Curran, a spirit of the dead. And then having sided with him, the covenant of elders, right? Not with full unanimity, but the covenant of elders voted and said, yes, we will go to war with the man in black. With is an interesting term, right? Because it's very if there's there's like, does the width of the covenant mean that they are his servants? Maybe not, but does width mean we are an ally? Probably so. And so we see Hakeya approaching urine, who we see has just finished or concluded this effort with the shape changers, ally with the houses of Gouthmai, houses of Gouthmai suffered a bad beat. urine and shape changers with heavy losses still seem to have accomplished their mission in the shrouded mountains, which was slightly different than the house of Gouthmai, which had to do with quick silver, urine, you're in getting up to some sneaky stuff in those mountains. So in any case, I think that it should fill you with a sense of dread and not one of certainty. That's my goal for that urine. He's being approached, he's being approached by the wishes. In terms of, hey, I love seeing a free agent getting offers. That's great. But don't make me smack the shit out of my uncle and be like, really? Hey, he's got, he's got to play somewhere. You only got so many, you know, so many good playing years, he's got to play somewhere. So, you know, like, hey, hey, if you don't want someone to take a bad contract, you got to give them a good one. That right. Well, and that's my thought too is because not everybody is number one on board with everything that the man in black and, and he's side is, is aiming to do. Nor are all of them aware fully of the scope of what he hopes to accomplish in his side of the world. And they also don't know that there is option three, which is Ursula and his banner and our trio. And now his father, too, I was about to say, I'm like, Ursula, can you pick this dude up off the waiver wire? Please. I also have a bad, oh, so there's a snake draft token here. It is at some point. It is crazy to that the, that again, that nap 20, it does change. What's it? It changes all the math because it does suddenly put you in this position where you go like, okay, we had our offer before yesterday. This was our offer of like, we're a scrappy team. We got a great culture, great culture on this. Great culture. I'm out the ass. Are you trying to eat? Yeah, yeah. You're trying to eat and you just signed Lebron, but that's the other thing is it's just this thing of like going from no great spirits to one great spirit changes the fundamental nature of the offer if you're trying to sign other great spirits, right? Like it's a very different. The beginning of book two is just us going into different kind of corporate office spaces being like, we want to tell you what we're trying to do here. At Bright Horizons. All right. Well, we're trying to build here foundationally. Is something to save the world and the different pieces of it. The, yeah, the jurors are bad, but the jurors you will say the wizard, the witch and the wild one, but you'll be getting your paychecks from better from brighter tomorrow. LL. Yeah, brighter tomorrow. I'm just saying, okay, now we're stuck in like a sports analogy. And I did just do my fantasy draft yesterday. Do we consider the great bear? Like, okay, if he's Lebron, is he our franchise player or his he heart sort of veteran that's going to get our younger scraper squad up to speed? I do for the people that actually I think the basket out. Let me tell you what I think the great bear does. And let's say who's on the squad going into book two. I, the only people you know you have on the squad are the three of you, task and, and the fox. Who do you guys feel like is on the squad? You can fundamentally say on the squad under our banner, get what we're about. Yeah, under so we cannot contribute. So we doesn't have a contribution from. We have hard actually, we are. Our debate. I was going to say that the, the great from from our Connor Rama cam for Brennan. Is there a particular nat 20 or nat one from the first book and stand out of having drafted the case to save the story? They happened in the last episode. Uh, okay. So it's not one sworn is not here. Nat 20 great bear is here. I mean, uh, literally nothing impacts my life more than the characters I'm going to be playing. Right. So like the, that is hugely impactful, hugely impactful. Uh, and I already know things about the great bear and sworn and, and book two and things like that. But in terms of I'm interested in again, like in you guys saying, who do you feel like you've actually got on the team? If anybody, maybe it's just the three of you and the two familiar. I just like get. Yeah. You go. I was just going to say we could pick up Will Gallows for probably like two weeks. We could do. Oh, sure. Like, you know, I just the two a's like we have him. Like we could probably get him in for a big game. But we, I don't think he's, we can't sign him. But for a big game, we've got Will Gallows, you know, I like that. I rock with that. Yeah. Oh, for sure. Uh, uh, absolutely. I think, uh, in, in that vein, um, I wouldn't want to employ them full time. I don't know sports. I'm going to just throw some stuff out here. I, I would say, uh, also the Grinnell, think the Grinnell, uh, what at least sort of be in the stands, you know, to pack a home game. Oh, sure. They can be fans. I just, I don't know if sort of without their fundamentals and by their fundamentals, I mean the great bullfrog. What's their contribution? Exactly. Well, but uh, in terms, they don't hop no more. So that's just people I hate to do this to you, but they don't hop no more. They don't have a cup of just traditions. Well, and, and the thing is the, the waterways, uh, the, the waterways there, their underground hours, they, the smugglers, caves and, and sort of the, the waters and, and the sort of, uh, uh, water transportation, waterways of umora, I think I hear you, but unless I need like a frosty ass gimliate, as we're on the way to like challenge the man in black, I don't know what. Yes. I don't know. I'm running this. Absolutely. We knew we did. We did. We did actually, we did actually, I've, I mean, we thought of that Pringles man bartender from the Ace of War, the! Yeah. Yeah. Actually, which is the first time we've seen, I think, witches plural that are not covenant elders is just momentarily mentioned. So it is true that the, um, the, the sort of like those gifted of the great bullfrog that has vanished, but that's not the limit of grinoe magic. So I just want to put an asterisk there and say that we do see some like cool, folksy waterway witches in, in the singer's cellar for a brief instant in that. Yeah. So and even aside from skills, we in terms of, you know, urine was fighting a war about the supply chain. And I think that that is in terms of the workings and the lifeblood of Amora, that is where they're going to come in clutch. Also, amelette, we have Hannah and Golt. Golt. Hannah. Hannah. Hannah, Golt, ghost flicker, the, the, the cottage is popping off right now. We got. I also think the wildest thing is you have Elbeth, Dr. Yagi, Hannah, Hannah, Moe, uh, and downma all back at the, I could back at the cottage with three artificers and a construct. And I like, what is going on at the cottage? What are, how are Hannah and Golt making themselves useful less of a cottage, more of a forge? I keep thinking about it. Um, I feel like there's a, I, the, the scenes I know I immediately want to run when we get back to book two great bear and Ursula and Amel talking to people at the cottage. Cause like, Hannah and Golt, I mean, Golt was spent in fucking jail for weeks, but the, but like, how quickly does it turn to like, this is a lovely little cottage. Hanging is a little bit squeaky. You know, like, like, how quickly does it turn into? I don't know. It feels fun. Fun things. It's so cute. Also, I am the, the, the less, uh, the thing I'm also wondering about is, is, is Hannah and Suvi, uh, you know, and their relationship, my ship coming out of this. Yes. Yeah. That will be interesting. Again, different jibbly movies. Yeah. Also, I can't believe no one's mentioned it. We got beef in the elk. We got beef in the elk. A lot of dude starting, I mean, the great bear will be our center, but you know, definitely, they'll get in there. They're strong, a small forward for sure. You know, 100%. I think the elk's going to do big numbers. I love, I love a high value rookie. This is going to be good. Exactly. Uh, going back way, way back to the beginning, we've got Arthur. That man has been drawing a bath for our squad. Oh, right. Yes. Our never forget our third. Reach way back into the pocket. We got Oscar. He's cool. What's he got? Oscar in the acting troop. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He put it on the squad are making me a little nervous for you. Rosalind. Rosalind. Rosalind. I was about to say Rosalind. We got day one Rosalind. You know, Rosalind. She's not new to this. She's true to this. I got. She's a day. She's a day one straight up. Like he's been on the team from the beginning. All right. Yeah. Um, yeah. So it sounds like the people that are firmly on this squad are a lot of little sweetie Rosalind. Rosalind. For a second, I thought Rosalind, because you said Oscar the actor. I first I was thinking of I forget the the the the on Janu of the theater. The wine goes. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I was working on a third bird. Yeah. Let's get her in here. She just put sparrows three times. Come on, sparrows. Penguins. Uh, canonical in Umora. Yeah. Oh, no. I can't wait to get the three roads. Yeah. Looking at Hana, Neif, Galt, Um, Uh, Rosalind versus on the one side, Opal Fiend and Orima and Aram or Steel and the Citadel and the endeavor. It's, It's not I stuff. It's tough. It's tough. It's tough. Yeah. What's that? It's a baby. Coral moral. Oh, we do have Coral moral. I couldn't say him because I can't pronounce him. Yeah. Coral moral. Um, hell yes. Well, but there's lots of people that you guys want to talk to. You're headed on a train to find the great library of Neroara. Um, uh, you, you have a, um, you've, and the great, that great bear really, great, great bear, great bear. Uh, Fractures player. Well, also question, question. If, when we get the great bear, do we get a lot of his children to unclear? I mean, this is what we play book two to discover or to find out unclear. Okay. Lou, I need you to start charging up that crit. Well, my, I don't have the best relationship with, you know, some of my younger says also they are like, like, uh, children adjacent. So like, just like, let's like keep that in mind, you know? Well, let's be clear. I think the Citadel's done a lot of big moves with child soldiers. Okay, great. And that's, and that's the organization we're trying to, we're building our own Citadel, right? That's the mission. I, that was the mission statement. I got my own. I'm a whimsical whimsical. They're doing a city of nothing. We kind of want to do a civil nothing over here, just kind of with a better culture. You know, uh, right. We have pieces of parties. Yeah. Yeah. And unlimited PTO. Yeah. Um, what should we get big pictures? We start talking about the whole damn thing. Yeah, are we waiting to be missed any of the epilogue's? I feel like there's one. I'm thinking, was the man in black on the road to the cottage? Yes. Oh, yeah. That was protecting the cottage. Yeah. Hey, Brennan, name, name that wizard. We went down. Oh, the one who went down. Yeah. The wizard's staying at this point. Um, damn. That's great. Oh, man. Bro, nice. God, he got he gulps just in the back going, I'm going to invent a power washer real quick. That's going to come right up. Don't you worry. Don't worry about it. Um, uh, well, incredible. Oh, and slide. We have slide. Oh, and slide. Yeah, actually that is true. That's another slide. Slide. Yeah. Big player. Big player. Big player. Oh, and the rest of us want family. Can we get a little more? Slide. Slide is like that incredible player who's always out with injury. You know what I mean? He sort of like, yeah. I'm like, I feel like if we were like, slide, can you make it to the meeting? And he's like, sorry, I missed it. And you're like, why didn't you even tell you what it was? And he's like, I know I missed it. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. Yeah. Yeah. He's like, he goes on to injured reserve right away, but he becomes sort of like a bench coach in a really big way. Yeah. Where you're like, when we do see him, he's going to gas you up. He's going to yell like you're on the right path, kid. And then we're like, all right, thank you. Oh my God. Well, very exciting. So that so there's there's a book to staring us down from from the mystery future, but it's really fucking exciting. It's really fucking exciting. Should we should we do some audience questions? Yeah. I mean, let's pop off with the big one from Frank. I see. Let's let's take the biggest bite. Frank asks, thanks Frank for the game. What was the best favorite role of the campaigns so far? How did it make you feel? And what was the worst most hated role of the campaign? I love that. I feel bad because my true is like I will do I will desperately try to come up with a better answer. But the truest answer is Ursula and Cret speaking to the great bear. That just was the exact right like, oh, we've brought it all together. And we've sort of peeked at the door into the future and it's it's bright. It's just the best feeling to have ended book one on. There's a there's a beautiful. It's one of those things where this where you realize the story that you're all telling together and it's it's bigger than all of you, right? Which was the idea of, which was the idea that I talked about. With Taylor about this in the producer's chat of the idea of how the characters have been changed almost cosmically by each other. And I think that there is an absolute mirror in Suvi mastering these secrets of adapted which spells and in the philosophy that she communicates to steal in the final episode going, we are changed by the world. And how that relates to the idea of like, there's an echo of that. So the thing soft says in the memory with him and stones first kiss, where he's like, how much effort do we waste demanding the universe do things that already want it to do? How much better would we be at this if we allowed the universe to exist? The ways that Suvi goes, we are changed by the world that makes me a good wizard. And then Ursula takes a wildest spirit of them all and makes him know honor this golden thing of the mortal world that he fell in love with as a cub. I don't know. It's a beautiful thing. Everyone mirrored each other in how we've been changed by the world. And that is not a curse. That's a blessing. Well, we actually have a question from Jacob. But lean. Thank you so much, Jacob. Wait, is no one else going to answer the question? Uh, got down. I mean, I, I will say, I think, you know, I agree that I think one of my favorites is that final role because it just, it does feel like from children's adventure to the end of book one, it feels like it feels like, whoa, we did it. We made something, we made something. The dice went with us. I, but I also will give it up for I was pretty as an audience member in the room at the time. I think that I've, there are a few net 20s. I've been more thankful for than Suvi in the cave with urine to just get on board because it just felt like it was like, oh, I know, I know the place. I know, hey, I've argued with Suvi. I know, I know, I know how arduous this can be. And for that net 20 to just be like, you're in. I think was just like, I don't know, it meant that we got to watch Suvi, uh, run around with a bunch of shark people under the water, uh, more sooner, which is, oh, we want an all out story. The dawn. Oh, yeah, the dawn, dude. Uh, gorgeous, gorgeous, really stunning. Um, uh, I fucking love that. Mike, I'm trying to think of my like favorite roles, uh, uh, least, I know my least favorite role. And I'll say this, I'll say this with, and I really love what it developed about the world building. I wanted, I wanted steel to fucking eat that curse in that last. I wanted still to eat that cursed at the curse in that last bite. Um, uh, because that's also a very fun, Thomas, the rhyme or kind of thing of like, but I love, I love how we're, we're, got us to with a view into her on inner workings. And I still love the, you know, the thing we talked about in the episode, talked back, but that, that fox fire on, I was like, Brennan. So I can choose the duration of it. Since she wronged me so bad. Yeah. So she is permanently fox fired. That is correct. That is correct. Yes. Which is a, a wild, also, I think someone, I saw someone's pushed my thing, which is the word it's like, we got to see that fan art now. I mean, I'm sure she'll use illusion to lens flare. Yeah. I'm sure she'll use illusion to make herself look more normal, but the idea that like without an illusion, you just see this like rippling green fire on her. So is there no way to remove like, there is a spell called remove curse? Is it not that one though? Uh, uh, I would say that let's actually look up the wording of remove curse. This is maybe an interesting piece of design. Yeah. And then, uh, within umora, da, da, da, uh, all critical. And I will say the only reason I like that, because like the curse worked, but tongue tight didn't. There is a part of me that enjoys at least for like this big, like, it's the, it's the act one confrontation with one of the big bads. Yeah. That like, there has been so much interesting tension across book one with like suvy not feeling like she's exists in a fairy tale like her friends are. I love that like the fairy tale moment where that would hit because you, you're, you're teaching a kid a lesson about like justice in the world. The fact that it doesn't hit is that little extra beat of like, and it's not a fairy tale across the board. Yeah. So it'll be, it'll just hit even harder when it happens. Well, down the line. I love that. I'll say too. There is some, there is, there is some, uh, uh, there is a, what is it? What would you call it? There is a, there's some, someone capable of casting curses dead on the ground of 12 Brooks who managed to get off a heart secret curse on steel, uh, who also, uh, they're dead. They're dead. Uh, tough break. Um, hate. But, um, I love the, uh, blah, blah, blah. Um, uh, though I love those words. Wait, and if anyone else wants to answer the, the roles question, please do, but, uh, Erica, you had another question lined up too. Oh, yeah. Was Eric a little frozen? Erica just said on the side that their connection keeps dropping. Oh no. Oh no. The worst possible timing. Hi, hello. Hey, hi, sorry, can you hear me? Uh, yes, do you, you had a question lined up from Jacob? Yes. Um, uh, Jacob asks, uh, if we touch the world and it changes us, how has Mora changed each of you? And also a thank you for such an inspiring story. And then I hope that I can bring an ounce of your energy to my own table. I, the thing that I love most about, uh, all of this is, is that it inspires others to tell their own stories. So please, yes, do that. But, uh, how has Umora changed each of us? Uh, Abria, why are we calling on people? I'm pretty off. That was, that was genuinely, I genuinely was like, damn, that is, uh, absolutely ruthless to be like, Hey, so tell me how this playing the game changed you. Abria, go ahead. I was so gently like, I'm going to reread the question and think, Oh, shit. I'm up. Yeah. Exactly. I'm the host. I've been the host of this entire book for a reason. I asked the questions. I like that it's taken till the end of the book to watch you sort of be drunk on power. And I, it's a good look. I like it. Um, but to actually answer, I think there's something other than to really get the opportunity to, again, across four years, sit and steep in what this style of storytelling means at different ages and different kinds of people. Like what is the point of fairy tale? Like what is the goal of fantasy and like how do you exist? And like, and what do we as adults, speaking content primarily for adults? Like what's the, like what's the moral and what's the lesson and like what things thematically do we care about and how do we like bring that forward? Uh, I just like that telling a story allowed me to think about the philosophy of like how I want to move through the world and think politically about my place inside of like change and growth and empire and action and activism and all the ways that you can get stuck and all the ways that you want to move forward and what the difference between telling stories about great action and what practice, like, practice actually feels like and requires. So yeah, it's made me, it's, it's, it's clear of, it's sharpened my beliefs. I fucking love that. See, that's why I asked a bria. Damn it. I like pressure, pressure, it feels good. Thank you. Uh, call on someone else now. Yeah, you are. Brennan, it seems like you have something to say. Fix substitute energy. Um, I think how has this changed something has changed? Um, uh, the I think that the way this, this story has changed me is that I, I think that there's, there's something in the story that we talk about. I forget when it happened. It might have been, are we getting a little sorry? Are we getting a little crackle? Are you crackle? I'm hearing it. Um, let me, let me just airplane my phone real quick and see if that helps. I'm getting a little bit of a squishy scratchy. Yeah. Is that better? Yeah. That feels better, right? Okay, good. Um, so I would say that the, um, the way I feel about it is. There's a moment in the story. I forget the moment that it happens, but I remember talking about the idea of maybe the biggest change is not transforming, but actually becoming who you've already been. Do you remember talking about this in terms of it? It might have been Ursula or Ami or something along those lines, but like naming, naming your breath, right? I think that telling the story with all of you that is about heroism and magic and a world full of wondrous things that is also filled with horrors and nightmares and the forces arrayed against our heroes feel impenetrable and unstoppable and overwhelming and that nevertheless our heroes try and we can see the seeds planted in this first book of how and why they might be able to bring that brighter tomorrow. Um, is an articulation. And I think that that is a type of transformation that this has, the changed within me is talking about, you know, the things Ursula, K. Lekwins has said about revolutionary imagination and the kind of things we've said about like, what is it? In other words, like if I'm going to change, I have to know what I'm changing into. And if I'm going to change, I have to be able to imagine what that change might be like. And I think that, um, like you're saying, a breath, it's like, it feels almost opposite to be like, I'm more convicted than I was at the beginning. I haven't changed. I'm more set in my, but that's actually not what it is. It goes, a thing that was a foggy, misty wish has now been more articulated and rendered. And I feel that the way I've changed is that I step more sure, foodedly, having told the story with all of you that, um, there is one more dream in a vast sea of dreams. And this is our contribution to a constellation of stories of which many creators have told and must continue to tell throughout time, uh, telling people that there is a brighter tomorrow. And that if you are kind and cunning and you work great magic upon the world, you two might bring it to bear. That, that clarity, the change I have felt is clarity. Poet! Yeah. Or you bring it to me. You can bring that brighter tomorrow to me, to me bear. That's so kind of you, dude. It's so thoughtful. And how has it changed you, Lou? It hasn't. I'm kind of, I'm kind of the same person I was when we started this journey. You know, you know, I still like waffles. I still wake up in the morning. I put my shoes on. I go to work. I, you know, I, I make the doughnuts. I come home. I kiss my beautiful wife on the cheek. I go to bed. I watch my favorite TV show. You know, I'm just, I'm just a regular guy. No, I mean, I think that for me, it's, I think, a lot more towards my like, creativity, my process and, and in this art form in, um, this art form of, of using games to tell stories, I feel like it's more my conviction in this as an effective way as this, this, this is more than a game. If you do it with the right people, um, with the right support and the right constraints, like that you can take, uh, rolling dice and character sheets and do something absolutely profound. Um, and that that's, that's a pursuit, uh, worthy, uh, it's like a worthy pursuit to kind of invest yourself in this and that, you know, people will forever chirp at me, uh, being confused as to why I do this particular form of storytelling. And I think that this story and the time we've spent telling it has just kind of further my conviction and, uh, how profound, uh, and, and like, I don't know, the, I mean, us, even talking about our least favorite and favorite roles, right? It's just, it speaks to the amount of control, but lack of control that, that just influences and makes the story better and greater than it ever could have been if we all just sat down and wrote exactly what we wanted to happen and then put, we're like, oh, maybe here we shouldn't, they should have to find a new way to get around it. Like, I think there's just, uh, how, how this storytelling manifests and its engagement with community and the connectivity that exists between the four of us in doing it. Uh, there's no other way to tell a story, uh, this good, uh, without playing, uh, without making a game of it. And I think that, uh, I believe that, uh, uh, fully and truly. Nice. Erica, uh, damn it. Just got me. This story and the process of telling it with you all, I think has changed me fundamentally on a personal level in my, as I said, the way that I engage with activism and also as a storyteller and, and creative and somebody who has studied stories their whole life. Um, I've, I've been in this art form since literally day one of it being a public commercialized, uh, storytelling medium. And nobody has done it like this group. I think the thinking of it as a story and a, with, with messages and themes and character arcs that we wanted did not plan for, but wanted to tell and that we're guided by the game and the game design, uh, has, has not been done before. And the fact that everybody did it and did it to sell such a, a clear and, and purposeful story is, is incredible and, and still kind of blows my mind. Um, I have never felt more supported in this in, in, in art. I have never felt more sort of comfortable in terms of creating art that is personal and culturally specific. Uh, and also, uh, I feel like, um, yeah, it, it has changed. You've all changed my standard for art and, and the messages that it tells in life. Whenever I watch something or hear something, um, I, I, I realize, oh, it is possible to to, to, like, have a very clear purposeful vision from, uh, a, a, a team of artists and not have it interfered with either by a committee or due to fears of, of public reception. You can make commercially successful art that is purposeful and has a, a message and is risky and, uh, you know, that, that profits, uh, it's creators. So I, you know, on, in a weird level on a personal and storytelling and also the way that I engage with commercial art, uh, it, it has changed my standards. I'm amazing. Okay. I've got a question for this quad because I think thinking about the like book, well, it's not my question. I'm going to read it. Thank you. Big Ted of Calderon fame, uh, for a very good question. But this is like, I don't know, it feels very good now that we're at the end of a book to like, look back and think about, you know, the, the road, uh, less traveled and all of the, like, little turn left moments. So, uh, big Ted writes, if you could pick one, what if moment from book one to go back and explore the alternative outcome, what would it be? Uh, and I'll start to give everyone a little time to think because I think my one little like nuclear button that I remembered having in my notebook and in the back of, uh, in the back of my head in case things like broke bad in a way and I wanted to make a, I like sitting there going like, okay, here's eight big swings. Let's see if we're going to use any of them. Uh, in arc three, if Suvi had gone with Ame and Ursula to go grab the wand, like, I wanted her to, uh, she would have destroyed it immediately. Oh, wow. So I go to your home and blow up a bus station. And suddenly, yeah, suddenly, all, yeah, wow, 100%. Wait, okay, wait. So how does it work? Are you, you understood the wand of Kevin from the, from us watching it in the thing, right? Yeah. So is there a part of the thing? And Suvi points it out, let to Ursula and like, walking away. Okay, go get that. So is there a part of you at some point that was like, or like when it was introduced, is Suvi is quietly in the back of their mind going, I think I should destroy that. Like versus even just like capturing it and keeping it for yourself. Like destruction over like possession. Uh, no, I think this is very specifically the reaction to Suvi's fear of, hey, you guys are about to go vote on what happens, like, what you're going to do about the citadel. And I'm actually not convinced you're going to let me leave because it would be the stupidest thing in the world to be like, we're voting to go to war and you're the one that's going to go home and like, warn your people. So if Suvi had had any pushback about leaving, she would have like locked in and been like, totally fine. Do you want to go get that wand on the way out the door? And then the moment she was in contact with it, would have, I would have thrown every destructive spell I had at it to snap the wand. Because that solves the problem of the Covins unanimity. No more Covins. No more Covins. Oh, Doctor. I think that's the point at which Suvi's like, oh, I'm not getting home. But if I can save my like, if I can save my like, people, I'll do it. Now that now now, let me tell you who would have had a ball with that. And that is yours truly. I would have had a ball with that. Wow. Now what if spin off episode? What would have happened? Yeah. Yeah, Brandon. This question is fun because the result, like, the consequences machine is in the room with us. We want to run the physics engine on break it. Yes. Tell me the ragged all physics of this interesting choice. I need to keep an ace up my sleeve because the wand still exists. That is true. Play simulation. Play simulation. Play simulation. Here's what I'll say. We will never, unless another concave occurs in the story, it's possible that the wand will be broken at some future point in the campaign. I don't know what the plans that you all have will be or won't be or the feelings towards the covenant of elders and how they will remain and how they will change and all of that stuff. Lots of different options and potentialities in the future. What I will say is breaking it while all of its members are physically present would have been absolutely the most dramatic way of breaking it. And I'll leave it at that. Ty, you gotta know, you're like, you gotta do it just to see if any of them's going to like arca the covenant in the corner. That is a spicey answer. What are other big swings? Maybe that we'll find one that I can play out. I have one that's not a big swing and never I don't think ever would have happened. But I do think like in a very real way, there's nothing in my character outside of external stimuli. Like especially at that point in the story, there's nothing in me that was actually chasing this, this. But I am like, oh, what if we just wait for steel in the first. Like what if we have my first steel? Like there's a part of me, no part of Ursula until like Brennan, we would have actively discussed it and we're like, give some, let's like, let's create some stimuli. Like Quest Fever was something like that didn't have to happen. And I think there's fully a world outside of Quest Fever where Ursula on is like, let's, hey, what's up? I'm just going to be drunk for three days. Like, let's fucking so we're just chilling until she shows up. So like, like not living in a D&D campaign, being like, oh, an authority figure is going to solve the problem for us. Let's have a drink and relax, right? She's promising she'll be here soon. I mean, that's the thing, right? I've been playing steel knowing what her true MO has been the entire time. And it's one of those funny things where you look back on the reactions to some of those episodes where people were like, we're like, why aren't they just letting steel who has all the resources help them? Everything she's staying is so fucking reasonable. And I love that because it's true. Yeah. It's true. Everything she was saying was so reasonable. And it's so reasonable to say, you're a child. I'm one of the world's greatest wizards. You want me to want to let me take a crack at this chief like I can help you out. And what's great about that is in real life. Bad guys say reasonable things all the fucking time. It's almost like language is a game and you can cloak yourself in the veneer of reasonableness with very minimal effort if you're smart. It's and it's one of the most frightening parts of being a human. You wake up in a cold sweat all the time that the worst ideologies you've ever heard of can with a trick of language be made to sound like the obvious choice. Oh no. Oh no. So in those in in arc one, right? Steel's just going like, hey, keep it on ice. Let me get there for a quick second. I'm going to look into this sheet at that time. I'm playing her knowing she's the architect of the curse on Ami and saying we need to find out who did this to you, right? Like if you guys had waited, she would have scooped out my ups and we got to take her to the sitid, she's sick. They would have taken her there. You know, probably in that world have gone in through the curse to find out the nature of the Coven without her memories were delayed in the process of the station of the world's heart actually being able to pass on to Ami and they probably find a magical way to break the Coven of elders magically before they wake Ami up with either no memories or no memories of the Coven or you know, something along those lines like send Ami back to go be the witch of Toma don't wrong her in any way that can come back on us. But maybe we break the Coven in this moment magically remote snap the wand some some other way of using the curse as a foot in the door to get into the magic of the Coven. And would neurom have been freed? How would have how would steel have covered up the neurom situation or like she would just waged us of the neurom situation? I think that my plan was if you were going to let steel get there she would have had Moro killed freed neurom and taken all of the research from the Derek. So in other words, we should let her come that would been fine. Remember also like the plant like 12 Brooks was already happened like she already knew she was in other words she would have been like you dumbass were working on this you know what I'm saying? Like think about her already knowing about Lucent court think about in other words, it's like God damn like like parallel discovery except this guy's a moron like yeah. Does that make sense? You know what I mean? Like of course, but she would have taken the lenses and been like now that is interesting tech we can use that right? Like so in other words being like oh that's like it. You know, so in other words, but I think she would have been like my Lord and Ron like everything she says to Suvi about like don't needlessly antagonize spirits. They're fine. Like she doesn't have like that is actually accurate to steal she does not have a special enmity towards spirits past what she has towards other human beings, which is like the one thing that humans and in other words when she's like humans in spirits it's like it's all part of the same. She's like it's all like don't get heated up. In other words like the young Suvi in arc one being like I hate these spirits. This is our world and there. That's not why she was like but all right. All right. But you know what I know. Okay, in your words, what was Suvi saying in that in that interaction with steel? She uses some strong language about Orima in that scene. She says I don't think I hate them, but I'm closer than I thought. Okay. Gotcha. Well, all right people really popped off when she was like I don't know man they seem quite bad. They almost killed my friends. Yeah. Everyone's like Suvi is a racist. It's like oh okay we got there quickly. I heard put it in the official record. We didn't get it exactly right. But I think that the within that. In other words taking taking the negativity of the horrifying experience with Orima and Lamry and the horror visited on the landscape around Port Talon and extrapolating that out into a broader. This is how I'm feeling about spirits. I think that there is a moment where steel goes like don't worry about that. But where that that's genuine coming from steel and the place that's coming from is like listen I get being bothered by the things outside of your control. We're so close to not having that be a thing anymore. Don't sweat it. You know like we're so real. Oh, in other words being like be fun when you're like you're like they just moved their bishops fuck these guys and her being like dude it's checkmate and two. Like don't worry about it. Like that's her attitude right? That's where she's coming from in that scene. The chill sinisterness of like her perspective. Oh I'm very excited to go back and re-listen to all of us now. But all of her all of her chillness comes from someone who's certain of victory. Right? You know what I mean? Like that's really what it comes down to is like is her being like you don't need to get mad at these people. They're about to not matter anymore. Which is comes from a very real place I think in the way that steel is informed as a villain from Brennan's own methodology from like how you put a little bit of yourself in all the characters you play. There really is a strong thing for me in real life when I see people get to a place of peak of emotional distress against people that are not the I've talked to close friends being like you're mad at somebody or you have a strong feeling about somebody. Is that person in between you and your goal? Because if they're not this effort is wasted. Like you don't need someone can be trying to pick a fight with you. But if they have nothing you need and can't stop you from getting what you want that's wasted effort. That's a distraction. And the like looking at steel on that. So in other words, Ami goes to Citadel. Naram is freed with a you know I had a whole thing planned with her getting there and being like my gentle wave Lord please did it with our dearest apologies this you know like all of that being like being like yeah man you're going to come out in the wash. This is a what yeah this doesn't this is all going to happen. I cannot evisión this story without the rain road and the exact way it happened it feels crazy. That's so great. I do wonder about my big sort of thing is that what if Ami had trusted Suvi and steel you know and done things that were very reasonable like like you know they everybody was right to be like Ami you're acting crazy like like they offered all this medical care you know why didn't you take that and wait around like they they you are there a guest in their home and they are like hey hang on for a minute like I know you have to go but we're like making sure we're checking you know checking your work here and it instead like you go and you pop off and just all all the steps along the way where Ami could have taken steel at her word and didn't like what would it yeah we get what would have happened if we waited for her in Port Talon but like what if we had to stir in the city? Yeah what would have happened at the end of check like we talked about the end of chapter one go to the end of chapter two I mean yeah there's a that you know I think this is a I feel that I'm experiencing this every day in the world that we live in in terms of a slow creeping dread as people are like things are fine things are fine things are fine nothing nothing weird or like like how different is life than it was five minutes ago 10 minutes ago yesterday and a week ago you know like all this stuff the the the crackdown where you see the people like Lasario Raccomanti getting dragged out of the thing the imperial skyships in the citadel steel being like there's a there's a hunt for someone there might be a traitor here we have imperial wizards in the citadel all of that was specifically to create this feeling of dread closing in you've been given this timeline by sly this was once again the as the person playing steel when you guys said so you didn't give her sly's name but you said someone in cabani court told us we have this amount of time she immediately believed that 100% lied about not believing it but believe it it believed it 100% and went oh great I just got to keep this kid pinned down for 48 hours and something happens that that oh my god so all of that was fabrication from my part of her being like and her being like I can make a witch see things that I want them to see she knows that's true she just did it with the fucking bars in the southern sky that's so crazy yeah whoo but yeah she was she litter all but again how reasonable was she being and look I know like for everyone that advocated on behalf of steel's point of view in that chapter you're not your perspective was not a wrong one but it was one that people like steel know exists and take advantage of liars and manipulators in real life know how to craft something to seem reasonable and make it seem like not doing what they want you to do makes you a bad person and makes you a like unreasonable because I'm a is the tell me tell me to calm down I dare you I dare you to tell me to calm down right and like it doesn't mean that there won't be it doesn't mean that there won't be another point in time where prudence is the right choice and impulsive action is the wrong choice life is filled with case by case judgment calls where you have to make a different call than the one you made before because in some way you can't even perceive the circumstances are different but yeah I was playing a bad guy and she was trying to get you to stay and that was the that was the that was the reality throughout that and all the things she was saying about like we're going to keep you safe this is going to happen to the that we're all her pressing like you know the credit she had bought by being so reasonable and friendly up to that point was she was spending it in that moment to get you to not leave and I think that the the the Fox in that moment had that little thing of like you can feel the trap closing in right you know which was fundamentally me going like I think I was like even more so than in port talent even more so than in port talent I was like well if I'm a stays here uh I don't like I'm going to have to pull some like I'm going to stay still I've said she's dead and and I'm going to stay here I have said she's going to die I don't know how to save the story from that so the Fox being like I feel a trap closing in was basically me being like your little spiritual cosmically aligned thing is telling you to run because there isn't a logical reason to do it there's only an intuitive reason to do it uh tiger in the grass yeah yeah tiger in the grass sometimes you can feel the eyes on you and you go and if so you're like I think I should run and someone goes prove it and you're like I can't I I can't prove it I can't prove it in this moment I just think I need to run it's crazy to I feel like it's the very unique thing of the type of story telling we do is that you have to be both sides of that coin yeah yeah so I think even as your player at times it's crazy because you're you've got one half you going my god just hang we got no we got no in the face and then the other half you's going you feel crazy right you feel like we got to get out of here and then it but it's all your voice it's your voice yeah saying all of the things you're the fox and steel have the same voice just in different moods and vibes it's both my voice not not bad but just in that it's all like Brennan you are the world and thus it is your responsibility to be both of these Felix and it's just like uh wait uh uh wait uh uh that is a thing that I think a bria is especially good at with me I've been like don't you push that big red button Erica can you push it don't don't you do it I'll pile drive you through a table don't you keep rolling don't you look what happened oh wow what the dice little story yeah that is really hard though and like I do want to give Erica I really want to give you your flowers on this because like as much as I like make jokes about like defending CVs perspective on this like having to sit and live in the world where you as a player are responding and making choices based on an intuition of the like construct of the world in your imagination so you have to imagine that you're getting all of these like micro signals and I cannot I can't fathom how difficult it is to play sincerely in that and not feel like the choice you're like to make it feel like it doesn't feel meta and I'm watching a character look around and clock something that no one else can see and none of us can see any of it is just a testament to how good and grounded and like lived in and just how good of an actor you are it's it's amazing it's amazing you're very good really really good all of you guys were great too in that scene I always I also think too that whenever we do these long flashbacks of recounting the what ifs you always erase a little bit of complexity from them because because you know things get get redacted yeah but like it's always important to remember Suvi goes with them to the Galathopter like the initial impulse to yeah the impulse to leave no matter what even with steel having been like hang tight Suvi doesn't doesn't alter that plan until steel is like this is a direct order right like and also Ami does not blow up a bus station the Fox does and I'll stand by that till the day for my dying day all right what is the fox the fox and Ami are one guy I didn't know that Suvi was Catholic like that right the arm and also with your fox yeah I love it I love it can I answer another question yeah this one this one comes from Joaquim thank you Joaquim how did you come up with Wavebreaker we came up with Wavebreaker together in the children's adventure where can we listen to that well the children's adventure was our unique take on a session zero where we built the characters by actually playing out their childhood summer in which they met so for those of you who have perhaps have exclusively listened to the wizards the wizards the wizards the ones on the other one on the kind of main feed on the patreon exist a six episode series in which we build these characters from scratch eight episode series wow that's two more episodes all for only five dollars a month and but yeah in in that I think at some point Brendan describes us going upstairs and finding a bathtub filled with swords and of those swords we picked out this one and I believe each of us described an element of it and and then Brennan gave it the name Wavebreaker uh and then we didn't think about it for a number of months yeah and then when we did our first ever camp where we recorded recorded the last like three or four episodes of the children's adventure and the first two episodes of the campaign that was uh that's when we realized that the thing we all made up together in a fun sweet exercise uh was going to be fundamental to the story we were telling uh yeah and soovy being like here for you giving it to her salon because it was like such a lovely gesture I'm giving a hip-hop was not hers to care the most sexier old shit then grandma run being like just go up to the attic and use that sword and we're like oh give it away you want yeah i still remember when when we were doing like the official snap block for it in the in the campaign when we got it back and he was like it's a plus two or plus three weapons and it was like whoa this is I'm like a level one character with a plus three weapon was really uh felt like we were we're gonna I was gonna break the rule like I was gonna break the game I was like this is this is too much um and yet it was just right that it's I think I think big magic items go a long way to helping a party slightly under the average party size uh you know what I mean like just balancing for encounters like uh the the fact that like giving a plus three sword in a three person party completely advisable in terms of just like okay plus three swords really good you know it would be even crazier good one other guy um yeah no one I mean like more HP and like one more one more one more like stack in initiative one more one more strike yeah one more on our one more stack in initiative yeah we imagine one other fifth level character running around you know what I mean like yeah like I don't know a plus three sword is fucking incredible casting fireballs pretty good you know having extra attack as a martial class is pretty good like so within all of that I think it's important to remember when you're balancing for small parties uh give them the goods baby give them the good shit I also think it just did a really beautiful job of uh implying the scale of like grammar ends world and the world of umora when you're like she's got artifacts in the bathtub yeah just vibing that's something that she's forgotten about and it's the coolest so it's one of the eight coolest swords on umora like that's just so rad in a bath up there but what I love about it too is we are seeing why that is flicker is a giant stone living construct powered by candle magic it was just hanging out because they had to get him out he's just a big fun so I love the I again it was I felt like there were so many apotheosis catharsis moments where the characters are self-actualized by the family of the the game and one of them for ame for me was the villagers riding by in a cart as flicker waves at them being like young which at the cottage shits about to get crazy again like what was going up to with that bath when that bathtub like think about her walking out of a teleportation or flying in with a broomstick and being like okay thank god bag full of swords been like okay I'm gonna put them in the bathtub until I find out what to do with them 40 years later they are in the bathtub wait on that can I ask another what if yeah there are ghost and flicker don't go to the to them to the yeah to go be tortured by hook mouths like if if ghost and flicker if ghost and flicker like is there a world where ghost and flicker come with us like is there like could ghost and flicker have done anything else or could they have stayed in port to Ellen ghost and flicker could have done anything else I mean like yeah ghost life was in chaos when fendly fled like she didn't like her like in other words leaving her was not also a good answer taking her with you to where to do what I will say the best case scenarios it was not a situation where the empire was always going to look at ghost and go wow-hahaha but a world where Suvie is there to lean on her name in person is a very different universe a universe where ghost and flicker bored the epiphany as guests of the sword of the citadel is a very different one from the one where they have to get on a ship and go to caro it's just like real pinot Mo Mo Fox and cat how many people get a hand on the ball before ghost finds the right person to share a name with. You know what I mean? Like, it's just, that's really the end of the day is too many malevolent actors got to be a wicket through which Ghost had to pass, right? I do think you've done a great job of making it so that we can't really, if a person doesn't fit in a sack or a vial or like a pocket, like we kind of just have to go like, hey, good, look out there. Like, it's, it's pretty tough to bring people along. Make your way to the cottage. You'll get it eventually. Yeah, it's really tough for me like, a roll with us, you know, we kind of know where we're going on a date. Like we're very much on the fly. So it's like, what's up? If you can't, if you can't fit in here or like in here, like you actually can't come with us. Well, I need that to spell agent. So I think it worked out the best way it could. Listen, we did. I still wrote it. I sure remember when you made us use it and it was just this kind of like, oh, I thought, I thought myself actively dissociate for like the first time. I was like, when I used it, we used it on that alarm spell on the gray. It was just kind of like, man, man, what was it? What was it doing? It was supposed to be cool. We're saving the kids. What's all this? What's all this, what's all this moral ambiguity? What did this come from? I don't think Suvi makes it to Abison if she doesn't have the spelling agent to like disenchant that little like past, like the stone of passage. So yeah, that was the moment where I was like, oh, no, I thought about the consequences and I'm like, me as Suvi has gone away inside my own head and I have to drag myself back. And that was where Suvi's sort of storming the beach in Normandy vibe came from was me feeling myself actually do that and go like, lean in for the battle. I love that, my God. I love that so much. The yes, I think a lot of, there were a lot of different paths there. I feel like I want the what if questions I want to ask for you guys? Yeah. Because there's a lot of like, what would the world have done? But I'm trying to think if there are any like close calls or edge cases that like how you guys would have reacted differently if something had gone differently. Um, I guess like some of my questions are maybe about like, God, it's, it's, it's, it's really, really there are, the question I have for you guys is, is there anything that you guys remember from the campaign where you were close to making a different call? Does that make sense? Like are there things where it was like, it was on a knife's edge and it just ended up the improv came up a certain way and you almost made a different call than the one you made. Suvi, uh, having the conversation with Silver in bracket. I was mostly not going to do that and then got like, just got caught in the moment and was like, oh, this isn't, this is an opportunity. That's my what if question for you? If you hadn't told Silver the real plan, would you have still left with Ursula and Ami? And if not, and therefore Silver didn't know your secret and therefore Silver doesn't die, would you have gone to Caterwall Lane and had the departure from the Citadel that you had? I, you know, I think she was always going to go. Like she was locked in from the like match my breath and walk in my footsteps. It was just about the like her trying to live in the truth the truth that she is seen modeled from Ami about like radical candor and trusting people with even uncomfortable like where you're sitting. But I do wonder, I do wonder what it would have. Like I don't know how the rest of the book goes. Man, give me a second. So when else go? What would I have done? Oh, I love that. So let me, let me, I wonder what else here, the in terms of other what ifs for Erica or Lou, is there anything that you guys felt in that way that was like a different, almost like a different, you were close to making a different call. Lou, a question for you, what would you, here's my what if, I know you were close to taking the sword of night or that it was at least a thought. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. The man in black had been a little bit less honest or maybe just like a little bit less convicted that Ami and Suvi's death was a foregone conclusion in the fight against the Citadel. If he, if the man in black had simply been like, they must, like they must adhere to my cause or they will be an enemy as well, whatever. Does Ursula take, if the man in black slows his role a scotch? Does that mean go differently? I don't think so. I think he has to, he has to, it's a, it's a little bit more than a scotch, right? Because I do think like fundamentally in this kind of like, I forget when we talk about it, because it's a conversation we have with the man in black at some point, I don't know if it's that one, but it is this kind of like, I'm not going to tell my friends what to do, which I feel like is that, is the kind of the underlying thing of freedom, right? It's like, I'm not going to, I can't like force them to get on your team. You, like that's, I can join your team and be a guy on, like, and I can try and show you, show them how great being on your team is, but compelling them is not something I could do. I think if he had been, if he had straight up lied a little bit more and made it sound like it was not a foregone conclusion, like truly, I think there's just that question, right, which is like, will, is the path you're on at odds with theirs? And he's like, it is. I think, I think if he had lied in that moment and an insight check hadn't allowed me to see the truth, I think there's a part of me that would have excitedly been like, if this, maybe we can make this work. I think you, the man in black is going to lie so much. That's, I think the Ursula is a trusting, you know, as we learn at the end, Ursula wants to believe the man in black is so badly. So I think there is maybe a fun, there is definitely a what if if you play that scene a little bit differently, where Ursula and takes the sword. I think it'd be interesting, like, I feel like me, Lou, yes, because I think it isn't, like, if you had sold me, Lou, the person on this kind of, like, a vision that Ursula could get into, I think story wise, I wouldn't have been in the contractual nitty gritty of like, so like, how long is the term for? And like, you know, if you start doing stuff I don't like, can I just go home? Like, I think if you had set it up differently, there's definitely a world where Ursula is like, I think I can make these two things work. Like, I think I can beat your champion and be a friend to my friends. I, hey, brother, I wish, I wish, I mean, again, since I have seen the culture that is going on at the Man of Blacks team, I'm actually okay with it. But at the time to wield that sword would have been everything. I feel like I joked about it in the fireside at that time, but to just be like two swords, you know, just like, yeah, to be just, you know, do a wielding would have been amazing, you know. And once again, if you had offered a gun instead, that would have been... If you had just offered a sec shooter, dude. I think you'd have a six shooter and a poncho, and I'm just... He gives you a big, a big wide brimmed hat and goes, saddle up partner. We get exactly. Exactly. Oh, it then becomes the Man of Black in the Gunslinger and we get sued by Stephen K. Oh, please. There you go. It's so funny for me, I think that there's no world in which Amai doesn't do all the things that happened because I, Erica, am mech piloting her and you guys have all told me what to do. I mean, it's like, you know, we are so, I think, on the same page for telling this same story. Despite not even having discussed it beforehand, but I, it's like, I know that like, it would have been nice if Amai had just been like, hey, it seems like you're having a bad time here at the Witches' Covent. Let's just, let's not talk about difficult things right now. And Amai and Suvi don't have a big blowout argument and Suvi stays. And so, but I, Erica, know that it needs to happen. So, it just happens, right? Like, yeah. Like, what's the thing? All of these things. But I think. I have a what if for you, Erica, if you, that's okay. Yeah, because I have only one thing that I can think of and it's because there just wasn't enough time and circumstance, but you ask yours first. Okay, I'll ask yours first and you go, what if in the role to persuade Hakeya at the Conclave, you had rolled a Nat 20 and had, and that Hakeya just due to being charmed by you votes no in the Covent of Elders, because that was, again, I know that it's, the story is so grand that it all feels like it could only have ever happened this way. There's a world where the Covent of Elders stays neutral, does not join with the man in black. If that happens, what would, how would amazes have actions have changed immediately following that vote? It would have 100% been what Ursula did with the Great Bear. She would have approached her and asked her to not choose a side at Citadel versus a man in black, but she would have said, we need to stop this because I can see bad actors on both sides. That's a tough uphill climb, because I'll tell you, I fucking love Hakeya and playing her so much. She would have been like, whoa, whoa, whoa, we just decided not to do something. Let's give it 50 years of her time. I thought you were on team, don't do something. Now you're on team, do something. I can't keep up. This kid is so great. She's so cute. I love this one. And I don't know, if at that point, I would have been like, yeah, team three has to do something about it, or rather, she would have been like, please get people to at least not go to the Citadel, or at least not be on the man in black side. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Do you think you would have had a stronger sense of like, we are the third option? My brain doesn't conceive of us being that until very late. Yeah, the problem is, is that it wouldn't have been third option is a team. It's just like, please, like, just hold on, like, don't join the witches, but don't defend the Citadel yet. Like, we gotta, there's something here that needs to happen, right? Right. But yeah, I think, I mean, wouldn't have necessarily been, so it wouldn't have been like with Ursula and the Great Bear. It would have been more like, at least, like, please be part of our team in our think tank of what to do next. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The other one that would have been in that same arc was, I think, I think, I mean, would have really very awkwardly, and, you know, with difficulty tried to sort of ask Tefmet out. Oh, love that. You know, try to at least be like, Hey, do you want to get tea sometime, but like, not because you're sick tea, but like, I know we'll get a few minutes, I know we'll have a few minutes left, but this is actually the perfect thing for our last question here from Stuart. For all the PCs, what is one hope and one fear you have going into the next book of this game? Many, again, the way on down the line, we got so many stories coming your way in the immediate interim, we got Hint, we got Lou Wilson GMing for us, and then we take the stars with Solari, but when so ever book two occurs, one hope, one fear, Erica, you're saying, I have none fear. None fear. None fear, but asking out a human, I think from a one fear maybe, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I love it. I think it's that, I think it's just that, but I think one hope for me is, I mean, I just, we're gonna be on a train. I am excited, I love trains. And yeah, seeing the free roads, I'm so excited to explore the free roads. Nice. Abrea, we gotta stop calling on me, God damn it. Abrea, you're up. Abrea, you have such an energy that's like, real pick me stuff. Like I just feel like you want to, it was so badly, dude. Absolutely body by Lou Wilson in the last minutes of, pick me, biggest hope is sworn, sworn somehow pulling through and finding a way to reconnect with him. Biggest fear, I think if Suvi hears her name cloak destroyed, I think she'll start to spiral about, and this also goes back to the end of that last question about what would happen if no silver. I think she's been very close to a paranoid arc, and I think this was just, I think she's just very close to being launched into it. The idea of suddenly feeling uncovered and unmoored magically is the scariest thing for her. Yeah. What is, how many books do you think it, my God? I'm trying to think where, what level of bad ass or what we do we need? Because if book two's like the book, like I got hopes, but if book two's like the book on the way to the book, then I got other, then I got other hopes and dreams. If we have a similar speed, right, we did levels one through five, I could see it. Oh, that's right, we're going to 20. There's epic, there's epic levels. There's epic levels. Five books. There's epic levels. I would say, I would say that I think it's very possible, and don't hold me to this, don't ever don't everybody get, nobody do nothing. I think I could see a world with four, and I can see a world with three, I think three or four books, because 15th level is also extraordinarily powerful. You know what I mean? There's, yeah, that's how I feel. I think three or four books feel solid to me. Cool, cool, cool. Yeah, yeah. All right. I think my hope, my hope for book four is that, you know, book four, book three, excuse me, sorry. Well, here, I'll tell you my hope for book four, we kill all these motherfuckers, all right? Every motherfuckin' is standin' our way, he goin' down. No, my hope for book two is that we fight less, and we just got, you know, everybody's more chill. You know, no, what's my hope for book two? My hope for book two is that, you know, we just get to, I feel like book two, truly as I start to think about it, is Ursulant's like badass era, this is where, like this is his like no mercy era. Like I genuinely think Ursulant's issue at the beginning of book two is that he enjoys ending lives too much, like he's just in his John Wick mode, you know? Oh, I think I genuinely have real John Wick energy plan for Ursulant in book two. And my fear is that Brennan will make the enemies too strong for me to go on a page on Wick. Fifth level? Oh, very different man, it's level three. But also that I think that my other fear is, I think the beauty right of book one was that we watched untethered people become more tethered or like to build this community that we now have, like that we now get to move forward with into like our search for that brighter tomorrow. But I think that also means that there's more things Brennan can go after, more things that are heart rest on that he can put in jeopardy. And I just, if you come from Ro Ro, I'll fight you Brennan the man. It will be no initiative. It will just be an all out brawl across the podcast table. Okay, no self-build a sturdier podcast table. Brennan, you have to answer the question. Hopes and fears. Oh, man, John Wick. Len Hopen fear. My hope for book two is that we get to play it. And it is very, very fun. My fear, oh, no, I'll be more specific. I answer the question for you. My hope, my hope for book two is I think my hope for book two is that is that all of our amazing players get to rest with their incredible achievements and the growth they have achieved, but also sink our teeth into the joy of the demons that are left to wrestle with, which I think I have a very clear eyesight about. I'll say this and I'll leave this as a look. This is, this is, I don't play these characters, but I have to love them and know them in order to make good stories for them. I think I'm going to leave the, the, the things I see that are my, I think hopes and fears combined because I think it is the road of trials and there are hopes and fears in all trials. I think for Suvi, Suvi has done the great magicians task like great sacrifice for the secret names of the world. We, I've talked to, to the Brianna pack about Odin on the world tree about the great magicians due to learn the secret names of the wind. I don't think anyone has lost more than Suvi has lost and therefore has paid the highest possible magicians price. And as someone who is unmoored from the previous home, I'm excited to see, I, I think my hope for Suvi in the next book is magician. That's my word is the idea of like, I have lost my tower. Let me learn the secret names of the world. I want, I want to see Suvi after that level five and being like, I love magic. I want to see Suvi the magician. That's what I want to see is like, what is her relationship to wizardry become and how does she prove every false idea of magic wrong? That's my, that's like that stuff I think about. I think for Amé, I think that Amé, this is not, Amé has, has like gotten her memory saved the world kindness and cunning and has set the tone for the new which of the world's heart. I think for her, it is how do we move from the shelteredness of Toma and now set like, I think Tathmet's a great thing. How can you be the witch of the world's heart if you never had your heart broken and what are the things? What are the, what are the things Amé has to do to get a level of experience with the world world and all of the things you do? Like, how do you hold on to your kindness and your cunningness? But come to know the capital W world. In other words, like we think about Amé struggling with the soldiers in the shroud mountains of like, why can't I know you? I think book two, the hope and the fear for Amé is, how do you come to know the vast variety of peoples in the world of which you are the steward of its heart and is that process of smooth one? I don't think so. And then for Ursula, John Wick, John, Dick, Bob, Bob, Bob, Bob, Bob, Bob, Bob, Bob. I think for Ursula, as spirits become greater, their domains increase. And I think, I think for Ursula, I think about freedom and I think about honor and I think about can one be a spirit of freedom and the heart's desire while also being a knight who pursues obligation and responsibility. And I think that there are, I think that when I think of Ursula, I think of the warrior's path of threading the straight and narrow when sometimes the virtues you are called to are aligned and sometimes they're in conflict. So I think that's those are my hopes and fears for all of our beautiful PCs and the journeys that await them. I can't wait. Yeah. That was fun. Well, I was yelling a lot during. Yeah, Abrea had to mute, but we still saw her screaming work soundlessly. I was hollering. I am shaken to my core here. Thank you so much to my dear, dear friends for joining me for this very special, very public, a fireside chat. Abrea, a-hoo, and crackle crackle. A-hoo, crackle crackle to a brighter tomorrow, to a brighter tomorrow. Brennan Lee Mulligan, thank you. A-hoo, crackle, crackle. That's my favorite one. A-hoo, and Lou Wilson. Thank you so much for being here. A-hoo, crackle, crackle. It's been nice seeing everyone. I'm going back to Panama. I thought you found yourself there. What more do you have? Well, once you find yourself what greater joy is there in life, but to revel in the nature of the self, there's thousands of boxes in Panama. There's thousands of boxes in Panama. But hey, we'll see everyone over by the fireside. You know, it's not over. It's just, it's just beginning. You ever just say some, you kind of like fake profound shit, or you just say kind of a series of words that sound meaningful, you know? But if you hit the like pattern, you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here. Erica, Erica, you want to give us, hey, thank you, Erica, for all of your host over the entire book of book one. Thank you, Erica. You want to give us, you want to give us a little, a little, a little, a crackle, crackle? A-hoo, crackle, crackle. Yeah, yeah, yeah, see you guys next time. Mortica. Bye.