A Nightmare on Elm Street 4: The Dream Master with Elm Street Expert DIANDRA LAZOR

This is a paid message from GoFundMe. My name's Ashley Kane. I'm the daddy of a little girl in heaven and a father to two boys on earth. I've got an incredible relationship with GoFundMe, both personally and via my daughter's foundation, the Azalea Foundation. GoFundMe has allowed me, the foundation, and thousands of people out there to give hope to others in need. You'd actually be surprised how many people out there are willing to show love and support you in your time of need. My advice for anyone that needs to start a GoFundMe would be do it. You don't need to feel shame. You don't need to feel guilt. You don't need to feel embarrassment. If you need GoFundMe, use GoFundMe. Start your GoFundMe today at GoFundMe.com. That's GoFundMe.com. G-O-F-U-N-D-M-E.com. This message reflects one person's experience. In the year 1988, horror fans got to see what happens when a well-known franchise starts to entertain you with MTV aesthetics, in addition to trying to scare you. Now, this is a film that may not be considered the best in the franchise, but many, including myself, deem it their personal favorite. Because when you got the guy who directed Deep Lucy and Die Hard 2 at the helm, and the man who was the living embodiment of Nightmare Fuel taking on a rock star persona, you gotta give that movie its flowers. Now, in case you haven't figured it out yet, today, my scary friends, we are covering Nightmare on Elm Street 4, The Dream Master. Perhaps the greatest part four in cinema history, but we'll get into that later. Because today, I am not alone on the podcast. I have a very special guest joining me. someone who I consider the oracle of Elm Street mythology. Her knowledge is extensive and her vibe is as cool as her name. So it's a great pleasure that I welcome to That Was Pretty Scary for the first time, the one and only Deandra Lazor. Hi, thanks so much for having me. Trust me, the listeners are going nuts right now. And Deandra, welcome to That Was Pretty Scary. I I hope this is the first of many appearances that you do on the podcast. I would be honored. And I'm honored that you're here. So thank you so much for answering my message and saying yes. And being willing to talk about, like I said, this is my favorite of the Elm Street franchise. I don't think it's the best movie. Now, in all fairness, the first one, you can't touch it. But I love this movie so much. And I'm so excited because you really do have this extensive knowledge of all things Nightmare on Elm Street. And for those who may not be familiar with you, I want to open up with this before we get really into Dream Master. Because to me, you are like my go-to person for Elm Street lore. And I think you're a lot of people's go-to person for Elm Street lore. So I have a two-part question for you. What was your entryway into Elm Street? And when did you realize this goes beyond, I love these movies and kind of segue into, oh, I want to know everything about these movies, but also I understand these movies. I feel like, cause you have, it goes beyond fandom. You really have like, to use like a Buddhist term, this sort of spiritual oneness with Elm Street. And I was very curious of how that all started. Gee, thank you so much. It started, I was, I consider myself a late bloomer. I always liked scary things. I was born in October, so I had a little bit of a fascination with the macabre. But when it came to these movies, I think I've seen a couple on TV. I would see the scene in the first Nightmare when Marge was when they pulled back the sheet and she's like the skeleton who was burned. And that always freaked me out. But in a weird way, it just came out of nowhere. I was on a summer vacation with some of my family. And I had a dream that Freddie was after me. And I'm like, I've never really watched those movies all the way through. And I was like 14 at the time. So we were heading back that day and I had my dad take me to the video store and we rented Freddy's Dead, The Final Nightmare. I just picked one. I was just like, well, maybe this one. And it was just so quirky and fun. And for somebody who was a little bit of a scaredy cat, it wasn't too scary for me. So I just kept watching it pretty much every day, multiple times a day while I had the rental and then we'd go back and I'd get something else. And then I think my second one was probably Freddy versus Jason. And then it was Dream Master. And I just went all out of order. But then I was just curious about them. And then I saw the first movie and I was a girl from Ohio. I was in high school. I had really poofy shoulder length brown hair and I saw Nancy Thompson. And I thought, oh, my God, it's like similar to me in a way, like both somebody that I identify with, but also somebody that I want to be. And since I saw Freddy's Dead first, I knew that everything took place in Ohio and I'm from Ohio. So to me, it was kind of like a almost like a kinship. And then as I watched the movies, I just really loved them. But I would get involved with the message boards and I would hear everybody's takes on it. And then as I got older and I would go through like YouTube videos and fan made stuff, then I started to watch more commentaries and more interviews. And I started to hear more of the way that people talked about these movies. And I was really into English class when I was in high school and somewhat in college. And I love delving into things. And I realized that Wes Craven had the same sort of way of analyzing movies and literature in the same way that I was kind of forced to, but also really enjoyed doing. And I loved that he was so deep into the thought of why this character is the way that this character is and why it's melting away and how symbolizes the mind. And it was just so in depth and nothing was let like be coincidental. that I just found it to be so fascinating. And as more people judged horror, the more fascinating I found the lore of, you know, over time, it reflects culture and whatever's happening. And it just almost became this curiosity and this just like intellectual, like moment of going, yes, this is so fun and so interesting. And nobody really understands this. Of course they do now. it's really, really, really popular to analyze horror. But back then it just felt like it was challenging my mind and there was always a guessing game or something to learn. And I've always had obsessions and gone really, really hard into them. But I just really fell in love with Elm Street. It caught me at the right time with the right character and the right kind of mix of everything to where I just kept wanting to know more and talk to more people and kind of delve into that world. Thank you so much for sharing that. And I'm getting two things out of that one, which is a very common thing of, I feel like with millennials that came of age, either in the 80s or 90s, because I had my friend Meg Navarro from Bloody Disgusting on a few weeks ago. And we were asking about what was our entryway into Friday the 13th. And very seldom was the first one our entryway into it. Because like for me, like I saw one of the sequels, I think I saw Freddy's Dead first too. I watched everything out of order because I was just renting whatever I thought was cool at Blockbuster whenever the person at Blockbuster wasn't going to ask for my ID because it was a rated R movie. And it's as I got older, I was like, well, let me backtrack and actually see where it started. And I was like, oh, wow, this is the first one? It's like, this is the second one? What happened to the second one? Okay, like, what's going on here? You know, which I think a lot of people have questions, but it rightfully so has its cult following and sort of people claiming it for their own fandoms and everything. And what I'm also getting from you, and this is what I really get from when I watch your Instagram reels and your breakdowns, is I feel like your brain is very much like, okay, you'll see something on the surface, but it's also like, but where? The how and the why, which is very Wes. Wes is like, why is this person doing this? Okay. And then how are they going to go about it? And then he asks why again. It's a lot of that back and forth. And I feel like your brain is very much that. I use this as an example of you can see a traffic light. It's like, okay, where's that electricity actually coming from? And why does it take this many seconds? I feel like your brain is like that. Am I onto something? Am I picking up on something? I would say so. And I think that's one of the reasons why I love Wes Craven so much is because I'm like, oh, another deep thinker. And being a kid growing up, you're like, wow. It's like that moment in the Barbie movie where she goes, do you guys ever think about dying? And all the kids are like, I'm just asking for the blue crayon. And like, you know, it just it was always just a very, very deep thoughts. And I yeah, that's one of the reasons why I love Wes so much is because I just love how he looked at the world and how he thought about things and just how he communicated them and listening to him talk more and more. It's just he just had such a rich mind. And it's such a tragedy that we no longer have him. But at least we got a chance to experience his work. and in some of that element of Wes. So I always love and respect him. And he's one of my heroes. Absolutely. You know, he's like, he's the gift, like what a gift that we had. Like that, it's still an ongoing gift that keeps giving that we can revisit his work and gain this greater appreciation as we get older and get a better understanding of the arts and of ourselves. Did you ever had the pleasure of meeting the man himself by chance? I never did. I would have loved to. um he was apparently supposed to come to a horror hound weekend in indianapolis when they had a huge nightmare on elm street convention back in 2015 but he was sick and of course you know he passed right before that so it just became a whole thing with everybody honoring wes and talking about wes and there were a lot of tears between fans and cast members and it was a beautiful thing but i never had the honor but i have met his son jonathan and um i have talked to jessica recently since I've made a couple of videos about Wes. And she just loves seeing things about her dad. And she is like, anytime you find anything or make anything, just send it my way because I just, it means so much to me. And it feels like I'm seeing him again. And it's just so sweet. So I've never had the opportunity to meet him, but his kids still make me emotional. Yeah, that's beautiful, DeAndra, because you're really giving, because sometimes even though they're your immediate family, somebody outside of that might give you what I call bonus content. You know, it's like, oh, I never because like there's always sides of everyone you don't know, because you're not with people 24 hours a day, every single second of the day. And I feel like that's a beautiful thing for you to give as kids. And I will tell you this because I did have the honor of meeting him once. And you know how they say don't meet your heroes. He was the one that's like, no, he's the exception to that rule. And what happened was, is I'm friendly with I'm friends with Peter Locke. Who produced The Hills Have Eyes. And he was the one that gave Wes his shot. To thrust into the mainstream. Because no one else was hiring him after Last House on the Left. As you know the whole history of that whole thing. And it was at Peter. And his wife Karen's anniversary party. And this is early in my career. And Peter was like. Hey there's a filmmaker I want you to meet here. I'm like oh okay. And I was like. So he walks me over. Which is. I know you're like. I'm laughing for the same reason. because we know how this story is ultimately going to end up. But for him to tell me, I want you to meet a filmmaker friend of mine. And of course, it's Wes fucking Craven. I was like, dude, this is like saying, hey, I want you to meet a friend of mine who's a basketball player. And it's like Michael Jordan. It's like, you know, it's like it's like and I and I know and shout out to you, Peter, because he does listen to the podcast. Like, I know you did that on purpose to fuck with me. And I love you for it. But I also kind of hated you for it. But I love you more than anything. But no warning. Just like, oh, cool. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. And he's like, yeah, this is an old buddy of mine. I'm like, oh, okay. I'm like, hi, God. It's me, John. That's kind of how I was feeling. But that sense of awe that I have really went away quickly because just how down to earth he was. He's like, hey, nice to meet you. He's like, you know, Peter's told me about you. He says, you're a filmmaker. And I said, well, I'm trying to be. and um and he's just like i was like hey look while i'm here is there anything sort of advice you could give me he says the only thing i would tell you or anyone who would ask me that question is just make sure you really love it because if you love it you're gonna figure it out you know so if you're in it because you have a passion for it everything else is gonna fall in line because it always comes back to that pure passion you have and it was some of the best advice i could ever gotten because when you look at anybody who's not just successful but elite in their field the common denominator or as they say the secret ingredient is always love they always love what they do and that's always stuck with me and it means more and more to me as the years go on i realize you know i'm in my 18th year here in the entertainment industry and i wouldn't be here if i didn't love it but a lot of that stems from meeting peter peter having peter lock introduced me to Wes Craven back in like 2013, 2014. Yeah. 2013 ish. Yeah. It's wild. Yeah. It's kind of crazy. That is such great advice too. Cause it is true. Like no matter what you do in relation to this, I mean, I'm, you know, I'm, I'd like to do more filmmaking right now. I'm kind of getting in the PA level. Um, even though I do have a documentary that I want to do. Um, but I, I it's true because it's not easy and you see other people who might be over here successful or it works out for somebody or you get so far and then something doesn't happen. And it's like you've got to have that love and that grit to just get you through, because if you're only doing it for something, you're going to give up and people are going to kind of sniff it out in you a little bit, I would say. And I just that is such good advice because he is right, you know, and he never gave up. He did odd jobs. He kept pushing and kept wanting to do things. I mean, you know, mortgaged his house and worked hard. And one of the things his kids didn't always see him. He wasn't always around because he was trying to make a living in this. And I just it's it's just very, very true that, you know, if you want to get to a certain point, you do have to love it. And that has to be your number one driver. Isn't that such a Wes Craven thing to say, too? Like, it's so on. Yeah. Yeah. it's not like, well, you know, work hard, meet people. No, it's you got to love it. And you're like, yeah, right in the heart. Absolutely. All right. So let's get into while we're here. Let's get into Dream Master. And like I said, when it comes to part fours, and there's not a whole like big list to choose from, this ranks the top of the list for part fours. And to me, this is almost like the Rocky IV of the Elm Street franchise. Because it's like Rocky IV is not the best of the Rocky series, but it is really fucking entertaining. and he ends the Cold War because he defeats Ivan Drago and the whole thing's told in montage. Like Rocky IV is the one that you can show anyone and they'll be very entertained. And I feel like you can say that for pretty much all the Elm Street movies, but Dream Master, there's something about it. And I think a lot of it has to do with Randy Harlan coming in and injecting, you know, kind of a fresh perspective, just like how when Taika took over the Thor franchise, he injected like a fresh perspective. But I also just see like Robert England is having such a great time in this one in comparison to the previous ones i don't i think he was always enjoying it but you can tell he was like he had a lot of freedom in this movie it seemed like and i'm wondering where does dream master rank for you personally uh in your like sort of personal rankings of the elm street franchise it's tough well i will say this it is my comfort movie out of all of them or just comfort movie in general because it is so much fun and I just love the cast and the music and how fun Freddie is in it without being too cartoony but I would probably say maybe maybe my it goes back and forth because I somewhat okay I somewhat put the Nancy trilogy I put the Nancy trilogy new nightmare the first one the third one but I love the third one but I don like the ending So I don often watch that movie I actually enjoy watching part four more So it might be my third favorite in the franchise Truthfully That part four Yeah And if we talking about part fours and there some great like i said rocky fours a fun one uh you know uh star trek four i think that's the one where they like save the whales in space like there's a lot of great part fours look i love scream four not everybody does but that's my second favorite i came to love that later on when i first saw it you know i've gotten better about this as like a consumer and as like a filmmaker and as like a movie watcher to not get so anchored like to not have so much anchor bias rather of expecting that and comparing it directly to the movie that came before it so um when i first saw screen four i was almost like is this do i like this i don't know if i like it or not and it was the same thing with screen three which screen three has kind of become one of my favorites of the franchise like i think screen three is so brilliant but it's just when you're stacked up against the classics led by wes himself in one and two it's a losing battle just like psycho 2 psycho 2 you can never stack up against hitchcock but i love psycho 2 in some ways more than psycho 1 because if you're a fan of norman bates i think you can make the argument that psycho 2 is a better movie than psycho or more enjoyable rather i don't want to say better movie but psycho 2 may be more enjoyable for you if you love norman bates than psycho 1 so i think there's just always different barometers by which you can go about in terms of enjoyment but a comfort movie is a great way to put it i never thought of it like that yeah it's just it for everything that you were talking about with rennie and the energy and robert i mean this is the one that robert they were like all right you do whatever you want with this and so robert says it's his favorite interpretation of freddie um because he was allowed to have the reins and his personality was really able to come through um in part four and the whole idea of making him sort of like a james bond of horror i know some people at this point think this is when it turns sour, but this was the peak of Freddie mania. This is when they had, you know, everything coming out and making him big merchandise and, you know, the toys and the shirts and everything going on and, you know, leading toward Freddie's nightmares. And it was just so, he was so popular at this point in time. And I just think it all, it all really worked out. And it was such a fantastical movie that I just can't help but continue to go back to it. And I don't think it's just the fact that it was so early on in my fandom. But it's just, it's very entertaining. I think Alice has the best arc of any character in the Elm Street franchise. And I just love how every teenager is unique in all of Elm Street, but in particular this movie. and the whole opening with running from this nightmare and the way that it hits with the New Line logo and it goes into the girl drawing the chalk. Everything about it is so 80s. And I was so obsessed with the 80s growing up that this to me was just like, this is the movie I want to jump into and live in. Yeah, it had that classic atmospheric feel. But again, with the MTV aesthetic, because MTV was like everything back then. It was really rising to the forefront. and Rennie Harlan came from the MTV world. So that was like a very directly transferable into the aesthetic that he gave to this. But Rennie, as you know, like when you watch his movies, he gives his actors a lot of liberty. He puts like, he's very much like, does his job as a director to oversee everything. But he also is very open, at least from my observations and people I've talked to who I've worked with him. He's very open about, I don't mind putting the responsibility on you to make those choices because I'm going to trust you with that. And if there's anything that's off, I'll let you know. But and I know actors love that, you know, if an actor gets that sort of freedom and that trust, then they're going to take bigger swings. As we see from Robert in this movie, it's like, you know, this came out. So this came out in 1988, the same year as they live. And it's like Roddy Piper wasn't the only one putting on sunglasses. Everybody, Freddy Krueger did it on a beach, which is kind of amazing. Yeah, he did. In a sweater. In a sweater. And somehow he's not sweating because I don't think Freddy Krueger has sweat glands. Does he have sweat glands? I don't know if you've researched that. They burned away, I'm assuming. I'm assuming he just, you know, it's just like melted. He's just melted in with the sweater and there's no sweat glands. So he can't feel the heat because that man and that sweater, that sweater probably stinks because he does not change that sweater realistically. Yeah, he's not on that. Mr. Rogers says Mr. Rogers changes the sweaters like twice a day. But he's like, no, I'm just I got a good deal on the sweater and I'm proud of it. So I'm just going to stick with it. so um real quick i'm gonna give a little plot refresher to anyone who maybe hasn't seen dream master and if you haven't look there's our statute of limitations on spoiler alert i think we're way past that uh i would say i don't think it's gonna matter if we spoil anything quote unquote but also if you want to pause the podcast watch the movie come back and listen to the rest of our conversation the choice is yours but here's a quick plot refresher and uh here we go picking up after dream warriors kristen is still alive until freddy is resurrected and begins killing off the remaining survivors and a new group of teens before she dies kristen passes her dream ability to alice a shy and withdrawn girl who becomes the new target as freddy consumes souls to grow stronger alice begins absorbing the strengths and traits of her friends as they die transforming from a passive observer into the dream master a single vessel carrying everyone freddy has taken in the final confrontation she uses reflection literally to turn freddy's own stolen souls against him, destroying him from within. So that's my quick plot refresher. Is that Deandra laser approved? Oh, that is solid. Okay. I love that. I love it. So I love that you brought up Alice because I think Alice is one of the all time greatest final girls in horror history, but it was also like a subversion of the final girl we were used to in the Elm Street franchise because Nancy was like the, I was almost like proto final girl of, you know, white belt novice, but that adaptability ultimately powers through so that she can triumph over the monster where Alice isn't just surviving in this movie. She's like evolving. She's almost like Captain Planet meets McCloud from Highlander, you know, to become the dream master. That's kind of how I view her. Yeah, I love it is true because she doesn't start out feisty. I mean, there's a little bit of like what you kind of expect with the final girl when she starts, Cause I think most final girls are kind of mousy in a way, like then they develop the fight, but hers is like, she's like, looks like she hasn't really washed her hair. She just doesn't really fit. It just seems like she'd kind of be a background character. And then she just picks up little bits and pieces from everybody going throughout the film. And just this little bit more of this strength and a little bit more of this. And then she's, you know, I love it when a final girl swears. And I think that Alice is just somebody that you don't want to mess with because she is not like, oh, I'm over here. I'm just trying to get away. She's like, I'm going to punch you in the face. Like she's such a great character and that whole evolution. And then a little bit, you know, when she goes into part five, but really in this movie, what a weapon she becomes physically, mentally and every aspect, but ultimately with, you know, every, Every little bit and piece of her friends and the people around her, it's kind of that knowledge that she's had all along about the whole Dream Master rhyme. And that last piece is her that helps her to finally defeat Freddie in the dream. And I just think she's one. And she's honestly very underappreciated. Like when you look at the line, because, you know, Nancy is my favorite. But when you look at the line for Lisa Wilcox, you don't often see a huge line. You don't often see a lot of people really talking about Alice Johnson. but she survived two movies and she's just a terrific final girl i mean there's other final girls in different franchises that have had some level of powers but no one compares to alice johnson yeah so we got to give lisa wilcox her flower shout out to lisa wilcox and all y'all put some respect on lisa wilcox's name like we have because if you don't then i don't know what movie you're watching because watch dream master and you'll clearly see the answer i want to throw something to you too because you're you're so great at breaking down the mythology and also kind of the lore for someone who may not be familiar with sort of i guess the mechanics or the mythology of the dream master or these powers and abilities that alice has what's the best way that you feel you can explain that to them you know like does this break the rules from dream wars or does it expand it like i i feel like sometimes people can get in their own way and not just accepting something for what it is. So if you had to like maybe teach a group of like grade schoolers, like this is the mechanics of the dream master. This is why Alice has her power. I'd be curious how you would break that down. All right. Let me give this a shot. So Alice is not one of the Elm Street children, but growing up, she didn't have a great life. So she always would revert to daydreaming and really relying on her dreams to get through things. And for anybody that's probably had it tough in life, you can say that's true. I mean, myself, I was always a daydreamer. I would listen to music and imagine scenarios when things would get tough. And I lived in that world and Alice was that sort of person. And her friend, Kristen, was one of the descendants of the people who barbecued Freddie alive. And she had this, a bunch of powers in Dream Warriors, but one that kind of doesn't seem like it was really established, but comes into Dream Master is that when all of the other Elm Street kids who were carried over, Joey and Kincaid from part three, they, you know, are killed off in this movie. And Kristen tells Alice as she's dying that you'll need my power. and she's brought Alice into this world. And we know that Kristen has this ability to bring people into her dreams. That was in part three. And yet somehow now she's activating a power in somebody else. She can hand her power off to someone else, which there's some of that stuff that doesn't make sense because, you know, Joey and Kincaid pass away, but we don't really see their abilities get into Kristen at all, yet somehow they become a part of Alice. and so that's kind of a new piece of lore in this film but one of the things that i think is that as every horror franchise evolves something's going to change and something's going to be added and that's just kind of how the cookie crumbles and so as alice gains this power from kristin she also gets a piece of kristin's friends now i don't really see any of the other dream warriors at all in that, just the ones who were surviving into part four, which is something you're like, where'd they go? But they become a part of Alice and you start to see them emerge. And then as Alice's friends and the people closest to her also start to get taken by Freddie, you know, Freddie takes their souls, but Alice takes a part of their strength. So she starts to showcase little things like have bad habits, like Kristen smoking, but she can also do the gymnastics that Kristen could do in part three. She has the karate capabilities of her brother. She's got the, as Brooke Feast, who plays Debbie once said, she's got like that 50 year old like, I don't give mentality that Alice is now displaying. She's got the mind over matter mentality of Sheila, of, you know, really thinking and being a little more analytical. And she's got, she's got Joey's voice power. It's not like technically official, but it seems like it based on the logic of everything. And she's got, you know, Kincaid's, you know, bit of his swearing and probably extra strength. So everybody who passes away in the movie then comes out in some way through Alice, which I also think is very symbolic because Alice was not really herself. She couldn't really find herself. She would hide the mirrors around her. She didn't want to see herself, not just physically, but also probably internally because maybe she didn't like who she was. Maybe she didn't understand who she was. But as one of her friends would pass and she'd get a piece of them, she would take a photo down from the mirror so she could see more of herself, which in many ways is kind of like things that you encounter when you're a teenager and you come across all of these friends and people that you meet and whether they stay in your life or they leave, you become a mosaic of all of those people. And so through them, you're able to find yourself. And I think for anybody who maybe felt lost, and we all have felt lost in some way, shape or form growing up, some people do have a better sense of self or they're better at, you know, pretending to show like they do. But, um, you know, being a teenager is really hard. And I, I love that Alice is able to become powerful and overcome Freddie because she's able to find herself. And because she's had these experiences with all of her friends, um, and all of the people who are around her, which is, um, you know, very true thing for, for teenagers. And I think that's relatable for anybody. I don't know if that ended up being too complicated. I don't know if that went too far, but that's my spiel. That's so, you know, you bring in, especially the last point you drilled home, Deandra, is I think a lot of times, and you can tell that Alice is very much like an empath. She's a caretaker. She's fixing the dinner for her dad, even though he doesn't appreciate it and calls it rabbit food and all this stuff. I think a lot of times we can relate to, it's easier to sort of focus that attention on others or take care of others as opposed to taking care of ourselves. I think that can happen a lot when you're an empath or just kind of defaulted into some sort of a caretaker role that Alice is in. And I think that's a beautiful thing that unfortunately came at the hands of her friends dying. But then it's like her absorbing their energy and understanding like, yeah, you helped us and now we're going to help you help yourself sort of thing yeah now whether that was the intent or not i don't know but i feel like as i get older i feel like there's a lot of beautiful symbolism in what you just described there it's like this whole time she was worrying about others and neglecting herself and it's very evident with the mirror being covered up and rick even asked her why don't you like you know you're defeating the purpose of the mirror and it's very clear that uh back to your point uh to your point is um she prefers to not look think about herself worry about herself look at herself but then once she owns it i don't even know if it's her morphing into this version of her i think this this is what was there all along if you lean into like socrates theory of recollection and she's like she just had to uncover what was there and um she always had these abilities it's just that the catalyst was her own good karma of taking care of her friends came back to her through her absorbing those powers that's what i feel like we're we uh we have here with alice yeah i totally agree and you know you made a point and i'm curious as a filmmaker because we talk a lot about symbolism and stuff in these movies. And sometimes people will tell you, yes, we did mean that. And sometimes they're like, I actually don't know. And horror always reflects the culture and experiences and maybe thoughts. Maybe we don't even realize where it's coming from. Do you think that sometimes people think too deeply into horror movies and what things mean? or do you think it's like something that maybe the filmmakers didn't intend but it's just a part of human nature that makes sense for the story but it's also something to analyze about why that decision was made in that like we're talking about Alice you know finding herself like is that just when you're making the story like yeah that sounds cool we're gonna throw it all in and at the end you know she's got all these powers and stuff from everybody around her but you know then reflecting back on like humanity like did you think that happens a lot with filmmaking when you're creating a story that you don't realize that you're saying something deeper about the human experience 100 yeah and you know whether i don't think i think obviously it has to start with a good script i always say you cannot have a good movie without a good script you know even if you have the best actors you can't if you gave the best actors a shitty script at best it'll be a mediocre film because they're going to figure out how to protect their own performances and protect others' performances. So 100%. And a great example that is, did you ever see the Steven Spielberg interview when he was on Inside the Actor Studio? No I haven yet So there a whole thing of the last part of close encounter to the third kind and they use music to communicate and her it the james lipton asked them you know your mother was a musician your dad was a computer engineer was this your way because your parents were so were strange at the time was this your way of like trying to tell them i hope you i want you guys to talk to each other and he literally said i didn't realize it until now so clearly it was there because spielberg wrote that script or you know he had a he has a big hand in all the scripts he writes and uh and in the movies um he directs he has a big hand in the scripts but i do feel like something subconsciously is there and that will bleed into that because as a director you're going to guide it through your vision and where does that vision come from it comes from things you're feeling inside you know so 100 it can happen in that way maybe unconsciously sometimes very consciously or and very intentionally and as far as if we're looking too deep i don't know i feel like movies in general but especially horror it's like they're almost like one big rorschach test it's like what are you seeing because i think a lot of times when i see especially if like if like if a dude doesn't like that movie audition i'm like well you probably treated women really badly then you know because you're seeing a lot of yourself you know that that's just my personal take on it because there's no way for you not to like the movie audition it's a near perfect movie but if like there's something personal that you have against it I'm like okay well what's going on in your personal life that's making you say that this is an attack on men like no it's not it's actually kind of scaling things back if you ask me but that's a whole other discussion so yeah I think um the scariest horror movies I as we know it's like it's like a mirror uh a mirror to ourselves a mirror to society and I think just in 88 I don't think these discussions are happening, at least in the broad sense, because there wasn't as much of an expansive vocabulary like we have now, and this sort of openness to talk about mental health and everything. But I feel like now that we had that vocabulary, and that's sort of doing away with waiting for permission to talk on it. It's just not unlike Alice, we're just uncovering what was there. But it's also our own personal experiences that are helping to rise to the forefront. Yeah, it's it's that's such a great question because i never thought about that consciously for this movie but um yeah that's some deep shit yeah and you know i mean this this was this was written during the writer's strike so i know sometimes they're like maybe we should just you know do this thing and that thing and the other thing but then somehow it you know it all works in the grand scheme of things and i know sometimes certain directors for you know older movies will be like yeah I just made a movie you know but then there's so much to pull out of it that it always makes me wonder you know so I love to ask filmmakers that no thank you for asking that and especially with a movie like this one that has such great rewatchability like you have no issues like this is one of those like I don't I cut my cable subscription but if if this was on tv I'm gonna sit and I'm gonna be late for the dinner party because I'm gonna make sure I finish watching this movie it's the same with back to the future comes on I'm gonna make sure I watch all the way through Back to the Future, even though I've seen it more than 500 times. I'm going to see it all the way through. And yeah, so I want to touch on this. I don't know how often you'd be able to talk about this aspect of Dream Master because your roadmap of the powers that Alice absorbed, that was great. I think that's going to be very helpful to people. But the Dream Master rhyme, which is, now it laid me down to sleep. The master of dreams, my soul I'll keep. In the reflection of my mind's evil will see itself and it shall die. And I feel like each of those four lines has such a deep meaning if you're willing to look into that. Is that something you've also looked into too? Because I feel like we have similar brains of let's really break this down. What is this saying? It's not just a catchy rhyme. There's something else going on here. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I have expanded on that a little bit. And there's so much to be said about the mirror, but I'm curious what your interpretation of that rhyme was. Yeah. I mean, look, from line one, let's break it down line by line together. Line one, now I lay me down to sleep. So that's the traditional bedtime prayer rooted in theology and religion, because usually it's, I pray the Lord my soul to keep sort of thing but it's this vulnerability it's this surrenders this trust because sleep and on elm street is danger where sleep should be peaceful sleep should be recharging it should be recovery but you're not surrendering to safety here you're entering freddie's world so sleep is no longer like rest it's exposure so this this whole thing of i'm about to enter the danger that's how I break down part one first line and then the master dreams my soul I'll keep which I think I would argue is probably the most important line because it's got multiple meanings it's you know Alice is the dream master she controls her dream space she's got to realize she's in control of her own story but the subtext of that is that Freddie also thinks he's the master so it's this sort of power struggle declaration you know and it's a matter of Alice realizing, no, I own my soul. You don't get to tell me what I own or don't own Freddy Krueger. And when we go to in the reflection of my mind's eye, reflection, this literally is the thing that defeats Freddy. And we're talking about mirrors of horrors, like a mirror to society and mirror to ourselves. So line three, the mind's eye, that's the inner consciousness. That's the identity. That's her taking the photos down from the mirror so she can actually see herself. and this is where it becomes self-realization and then finally evil will see itself and it shall die and that's freddy's weakness not the weapons not the strength it's it's it's self-confrontation because he is forced to see himself and deal with all the bad shit that he's done because this whole time he felt that he was the victim he's the hero of the story and when that truth hits him then he collapses and this is why again Alice is such an amazing final girl but that's my four-part breakdown of of that nursery rhyme and um you know usually you can hear that in passing go okay catchy but I feel like there's a lot of thought put into that oh yeah yeah I definitely agree I love the way that you broke it down um I'm also one thing about the rhyme that I always thought was kind of West-like was the whole idea of, you know, evil will see itself and it shall die. As Wes's philosophy was always that unless you're able to address the dark parts of yourself and of humanity, you're going to keep repressing it. And in the end, you're actually going to be the danger to everything. So it's almost like, and, but we don't really see like a bad side of Alice, but it's kind of like a little bit of, you know, I know what I'm afraid of. I know what you are. And I know that I'm not perfect. And I know why you are who you are and how this evil came to be. And I recognize that. And I'm not going to ignore it. And I'm going to see you for what you truly are and I'm going to face you. Um, which I, I, I always thought of maybe a little bit of that with, with the rhyme. The other thing I was always curious about is, you know, Alice is the dream master. And I've always wondered, is she the overall dream master for everybody or just for herself? Because I, I don't feel like there's, you know, there's the comics and not all the comics are canon. But one of the things that was supposed to happen at the end of Dream Warriors was when Wes wrote the original script is that Nancy was supposed to be dreamed into the beautiful dream by Kristen because Kristen was so powerful that she created this whole good world for Nancy to live in to protect the dreamers. So she could fight Freddy, but while Freddy is seeking everybody out to kill them, Nancy's taking them and protecting them. And so I was like, did they take that from a little bit maybe of that first script and that was supposed to be Alice but then you go into some of the canon stuff with the the comics and Nancy is the that good being in this and she actually does save Alice but Alice is not like you know that good equal to Freddie it's just kind of like the master of her own dreams almost like the lucid dreamer not somebody with extra powers that, that on like a grander scale, but just kind of for herself. So I'm just, I've always been kind of curious about that. Like is, is Alice that in the general sense for all of the Elm Street movies, because it doesn't kind of seem like it goes in that direction. So I just kind of maybe assumed maybe it was for her, for herself of mastering her own fears, her own insecurities and her own dreams in a world where Freddie is supposed to reign. So I've always just kind of wondered about that i like that you know to go in with the theme of karate you know because more than one person can achieve the rank of black belt more than one person can get the fourth degree black belt and become deemed master or sensei depending on you know what discipline you're doing and uh i never thought of it like that because i was thinking that admittedly pretty self-contained to this story and and you know four and five and elm street as a whole so it's like seemingly that's why i said mcleod from highlander because remember there can be only one so it's like, is it that? But now with you saying that, I need to backtrack that statement because I like the idea that Alice is maybe the first of many who are willing to take control of their own narrative. I like that. And I feel like with you saying that nursery rhyme isn't a nursery rhyme, I think we're being Trojan horse by means of like a catchy nursery rhyme. It's more like this, this mission statement to like almost cast a spell on yourself about your own ownership and identity in your soul that don't just say the words but actually believe the words that's the difference between an actor who just rememorizes their lines versus someone who really lives their lines out you know oh you just you just stumbled onto something that gave me such chills because man when you really think about par four it really is such a great commentary on self-discovery growing up through everything why are you not writing the next elmstreet movie what is going on look i don't know if they're ever gonna hear this and i hope nobody says but i'm trying to just move my way and be like hey what's going on cravens how's it going there's a new movie coming out so no i can let me let me tell you why there should be i i look the elm street franchise would be in great hands with you if they were to like if you could be like the elm because i consider you like the elm street elis is the dream master you are like the elm street master to me because again if i if i feel like i'm missing anything in terms of trivia i had to look no further than your instagram page i'm like oh like because you did a great roadmap just now on the just now here on this episode about the powers that alice absorbed but i remember you did an instagram reel about oh here's actually how it happened and oh what happened to this person and you broke everything down so you having this expansive knowledge of the world but also going back to the advice west gave me once upon a time of that passion and love are going to be the secret ingredient you have all that so somebody's got to be willing to give you that shot so if anyone's listening i'm telling you you you would be in i would love i would love to be a part of it i i don't have just despite my love for the franchise i would be so intimidated to take that on um you know because and and and i love it whenever people talk to me about stuff and they're like you know so much. And then there's times when I'm like, there's things, you know, there's things that I don't know. And there's things that other fans do know that I don't or people that they've talked to or whatever. And so there's always like that pressure to kind of know it all, but I don't want to be a know it all, but you know, have that moment of truth. I just think deeply and I've read a lot or talked about a lot or talk to a lot of people. But I feel like there, whenever somebody talks about, you know, we can't do a new nightmare because Robert's too old. I'm like, it's so much bigger than Robert. And Freddie is still, I mean, he represents fear. And there's so many of those tales, every single Elm Street relates to something that teens deal with growing up. And there's so much that they could do now related to Freddie that would still resonate with people. And of course, you know, Robert created this. He made him, he created the foundation and made Freddie the icon that he is today. But I think there's a lot of great actors out there, a lot of really good filmmakers and storytellers. Like I would love to see, you know, Jamie Campbell Bauer take on Freddie if it's a younger Freddie. I always wanted like Richard Brake. You know, Mike Flanagan has a real respect for Elm Street and a love for Elm Street and he wants to do it. there's just some really good and people always cite the remake, but one of the remakes problems is that it had a lot of people behind it who didn't understand what made that so great. What made Elm Street great. I mean, Samuel Bayer did not like A Nightmare on Elm Street. He's like, I'm more of a Rosemary's baby person. And that's what we're going for. And I'm like, well, that's not really A Nightmare on Elm Street. And then they just, you know, the writer created something and worked with New Line Cinema to create something amazing. And then they got to set and it was totally different. And people were like, we actually want to add this here. And they just hodgepodge stuff together. And it just became a mess with too many cooks in the kitchen who didn't understand what they were trying to create or what A Nightmare on Elm Street really is. And so I think that there is a lot of potential out there for something new related to a story that teens have going on. I mean, when you look at the teen experience now, everyone always talks about what's Gen Z going through, what's going on with Gen Alpha, you know, blah, blah, blah. I mean, they have unique experiences and Freddie would love to exploit all of them. I'd be curious to see how he interacts with the rise of technology. Oh, absolutely. You know, and I love that you mentioned Mike Flanagan because in my head I was thinking the key is to have a veteran leader like a Mike Flanagan or like a James Wan, you know, or somebody along those lines and pair them up with someone like yourself. Because it's like you want it's just like a sports team. It's great to have the veteran leadership, but sometimes that rookie comes in. Not that you're a rookie, right? By any means you've been known for a while. But I am. I'm not a filmmaker like that. No, you are because you already claimed it. So you are, but it's like, but then someone with like a new fresh energy comes in and this goes into Zen Buddhism. Shinryu Suzuki is all about the, don't lose the beginner's mind. Cause remember, you know, as a kid, you're open to everything. Can you just, yeah, I can do it. It's just when we become experts, we start to limit ourselves, but the true elites in their field, they, they understand the knowledge they've accrued, but they're always open to new ways to go about it, which you see in Mike Flanagan's work. You see in James Wan's work. You've seen all the greats work. You've seen Steven Spielberg's work. steven spielberg oh yeah from when he started versus now you still have the through line of his signature stuff but it almost looks like two different filmmakers when you compare and contrast and yeah it's the same with mike flanagan you it's hard to believe it's like oh the guy that did oculus which i think is one of the best horror movies of all time also did life of chuck this beautiful like three-part you know solitically you know one which i think should have been in the best picture contention if you ask me if anything got snubbed to me life of chuck got snubbed of all awards season stuff i think that's the key to it all and back to the point of the um the of the uh attempted elm street remake you know and this goes back to because i get this question all the time from people like how did how did this studio make such a like a piece of shit movie you know whatever and the whole thing is like a lot of those executives in their mind they're contributing the best they can so no one's setting out hey no one's in there behind the scenes going hey let's make a piece of shit you know i don't at least not nobody wants that people want money yeah they do but they feel like oh because some analytics came back and and this generate these demographics are responding to this but the script doesn't have this now we have to add that in and that's unfortunately when you know analytics will work against you it's like well those are black and white you know like the most important thing is the story and if there's a way where we can bridge that gap without going all that uh in that direction that's the key to it all and uh but I feel like it's getting because horror I would argue is more mainstream now than anything else even more than Marvel films even more than Star Wars And I really excited about the Crystal Lake series coming out because that would have never I feel like we going to get the Crystal Lake series we deserve now because of where we at with horror Had this happened 10 years ago, I think they would have fucked it up somehow. Just because too many people were trying to put in their contributions to the whole thing. So we're in an interesting place. and I do feel like it is the time for some of the veterans to sort of take on their Padawans if you will and start passing the torch down and then we in turn if we get the torch passed to us we pass that torch down because everyone gets their moment but it's not meant to be forever you know your art lives forever but we don't live forever you know that's so true yeah so okay I want to ask you something here there's so many great moments in this film uh what is your favorite and why is it the nunchuck scene i'm just kidding but that's my favorite scene but but do you have a favorite is it the wig is it the wig you like the wig you like the fake wig the fake wig the music and then just like just effortlessly like alice doing nunchucks it's like and just and but also the whole neo kiana ryu's neo escaping the matrix of wait what's happening like i know kung fu it was a very like neo i know kung fu moment And I love that. But I'm curious, like of like kind of the big tentpole moments in this movie, there are quite a few. Do you have a personal favorite? I think I do and I think it's pretty similar to that moment um it takes place in the exact same spot and that would be the moment that she gets ready when you have that that music behind her and she you know she's putting on all she's putting on her leather jacket and you know putting on every aspect about her friends or her brother and she's preparing for war and she's pulling down the rest of the pictures from the mirror and she looks at herself and she just says fucking a and I just that love that scene so much it has been my most rewatched moment of that entire movie and I remember back in like maybe it was 2009 2010 somebody recreated it on YouTube I think it's still up there and they did such a good job that scene is just my favorite because it's just that conglomeration of you know everybody that I love and I'm pulling them and I'm taking them into battle with me and then so that scene always gave me chills yeah yeah and then that's going back to this ownership of of identity and she's really like this is going to be my thing now no more fucking around but also like i love i love the quick cuts of that because it's very you know evil dead 2 or army of darkness when when ash is gearing up and you know and it's you know instead of saying groovy she says fucking a you know which is a great one-liner to put on top of it and yeah i mean the other great ones i mean the roach motel is great i mean that's a great body horror classic and the pizza of souls is a fan favorite too like i and him saying i love soul food which i'm like hold on a second ricky little meatball and then that scene is why i love meatballs on pizza i think a lot of people everyone i'm pretty sure everyone was going to that pizza hut buffet the next day and trying to get meatballs on their pizza oh i would be absolutely and then beach freddy we talked about beach freddy putting the sunglasses on wearing the sweater that's the pop icon mtv energy like that all i was missing was him going i love my mtv you know just putting the sunglasses on that's the only thing missing from them and one thing i really appreciate about this film is because i don't know how familiar you are with my grading system of horror movies but if a dog gets killed if a dog is harmed i automatically deduct like a point of uh on the score i love that one the dog's name is jason so we have jason in a nightmare in elm street movie and i love it even in the dream the dog's like yeah fuck this runs off but you know even though kincaid met his demise i love that jason lives in this movie so the fact that the dog lives that's another reason why I love dream master so much because I love my dogs. I love dogs so much. And, and the dog that pees fire. So way cooler, way cooler than the regular dog. So who's the better Jason? Is it Voorhees or the dog? I'm like, you know what? I might have to say it's the dog. Cause I'm going to say the dog. I'm going to say the dog. It's not just rage. People. It's just the truth. Don't call you. No, look, I might have my own beef with mama's boy, but you know, that dog is cute. Absolutely. That dog wins. and going back to what we're talking about with Robert and Freddie and and and also just the freedom he had as performer and you can just really it really comes through on screen how much fun he's having but just the one-liners he has in this film are I don't know I would argue you can make the argument this is peak Freddie like again the first one classic you can't touch it and it's also like the mystery of Freddie and like how little we know about him it was almost like Jaws the less we see the shark the scarier the shark is but I think that in some ways this is peak Freddy because this he's just he's always there he's not really in hiding anymore he's let himself be shown and it's never a wasted frame of footage anytime England is on screen right right and his kills are so creative and he's just having the most fun killing all of these teenagers out of any, before any of the previous movies. And I mean, I do think that part three has the good mix of like taunting and, you know, deliciously evil, like humor with the darkness. But this one is just so, he's so, you're right, he is Pete Freddy in this. Like when we think about Freddy Krueger, I think of this movie, Freddy in this movie. I don't know about you, but that's like when i picture him like that and i think when people interpret freddy for like cosplay and stuff like that i feel like this is the freddy interpretation they go with absolutely and it goes back to we're talking about like character expansion you know so like psycho 2 versus psycho 1 if you love norman bates in a lot of ways you will like psycho 2 better than psycho 1 you know or according to rocky if you like if you love rocky balboa in a lot of ways you love rocky 2 because it spends so much time with rocky balboa more than rocky 1 even though Rocky won the Academy War for Best Picture and it's this timeless classic and it set the course for the good guys winning on screen along with Star Wars and Superman and all these other movies that came in the late 70s. But if you really love the characters, then you're going to gravitate towards Dream Master. Because Dream Warriors, he was still kind of the Freddy we knew from part one. Just pure scares. But this one, he's like, I'm going to scare you. I'm going to kill you. But I'm also going to smile while doing it. It's like, how does it get any better than that? No, it doesn't. Because then, like, this is the conglomeration of everything going up to this point with the scariness. You've got him here, and then admittedly, I mean, part five and six, I don't really care for that Freddy interpretation too much. And then I really like when he comes back to, I mean, you know, New Nightmare is kind of its own thing. It's not really Freddy, so I don't really count it, even though Robert does a good job of bringing it back to the scary angle. But, you know, like in Freddy vs. Jason, I would say Freddy vs. Jason, Freddy and part four Freddy are just really, really solid portrayals by Robert. And I mean, you're right with all the one liners. How's this for a wet dream? How sweet, fresh meat. You know, welcome to Wonderland, Alice. I mean, hilarious. Hilarious. He's just got such good stuff in there. Yeah. And Freddy vs. Jason, I think, is a kind of underappreciated movie. I remember when that came out and again this goes back to anchor bias and I was going in like was that like funny? Was that more funny than it was scary? And I didn't know how to interpret that and I was like a freshman or sophomore in college when it came out and then as I revisit all these movies even part two which part two took such a left turn and people ask what the fuck happened I'm like I appreciate all these movies for what they are same with Friday the 13th even when Jason goes to Manhattan I love that movie for what it is I love Jason X for what it is It's like, I just love these movies for what they are because I'm always entertained, you know, no matter what. I never feel like I have to flip the TV off or the movie off. I just feel like, oh, this is just what they did. This was kind of a product at the time. But damn, is it really fun to watch these things, you know? Yeah. I mean, you don't have to make really solid. I mean, you know, first one's so good. But I just have way more fun watching part four than part one, despite part one being a solid. near perfect horror movie uh as far as a movie goes part four is just leagues more fun leagues more fun to watch than that and it's totally okay to not be the best movie like you said this isn't the best movie but it's your favorite and that that i i just think that that's totally okay in the realm of horror you know that that it doesn't have to be an academy award winning level movie to be good and to be considered horror and to be something worth watching. I just love part four through and through. And like I said before, that cast of characters, I mean, having a black nerd when Sheila is so unique, like nobody does. I mean, they have, you know, Urkel or they wanted her to be a little bit more, you know, stereotypical, but she just came in and I mean, broke the mold in so many ways there's something about each one of these characters that's just you know even outside of freddie that that makes the film so rich and um because they all just feel like people that you probably know or have met you know yeah yeah i mean sheila really was just she just happened to be really smart and happened to wear glasses you know that was that's it you know and um that's that's the funny thing about like the 80s and 90s like some a lot of things can be very much a product of the times but then you get something like this i feel like it's this relic of i don't know it's just like it stands on its own and this is definitely a product of 1988 the mtv aesthetic and everything but at the same time the characters were subverting expectations of what you think what would uh what happened like having a woman bench press on screen and be into the gym culture even now that's kind of like it's a little less now but even now which I still don't understand. It's taboo if a woman likes to lift weights. I'm like, why? Why is it any of your business, first of all? That does not affect you if a woman wants to lift weights and go to the gym. Why is this such a big deal to you toxic males out there? Maybe you should go to your therapist and unwrap all that. I'm just making a suggestion. I'm not sponsored by BetterHelp, but maybe I could be. If that's what it takes to help you out, maybe I will. But anyways, I'm getting off course here. The fact we had that... It's one of my favorite... it's not a like a true bench press death. Cause technically she, she got into the roach motel, but I think of like happy birthday to me. They had the bench press death and then, um, clown a cornfield. Remember they had, which I feel like that was a direct nod to happy birthday to me. Cause it just sliced them in half. But this one to have like her joints, like come out and like have this awesome body horror. And then she gets roach arms. I'm like, this is incredible. Like there is so much good stuff in this. And I've, the fascinating thing to me is like, I'll mention that this is my favorite one. a lot of people a lot of times someone will say oh but i love dream warriors more which is fair i i like dream warriors a lot too yeah but it's like i think dream warriors was just all about collective power great teamwork makes the dream work sort of thing but i but i don't see any of them really claiming their identity the way that alice doesn't dream master and that's why i feel like subconsciously that must have been what was drawing me to it in addition to like robert's like performance and being rock star freddie you know oh yeah and uh you know when back back maybe this is tmi but back when i was an angsty teen i was super attracted to freddie in part four i was really into i was like he's looking really good over there with that you know there's that shot when he like when kristin is in the boiler room and it like pans up past his butt I was like, Freddie's packing some cake. He didn't skip. He did not skip like Dave. Let's just say that. No, he didn't. He was ahead of the curve. Nope. He was. And that is not TMI. That is completely fair. Just like the one thing I will see about part three. I love Tara, especially when she got like the Mohawk. I'm like, ooh, this is why I got it. This is why I got in trouble dating growing up because I went for the bad girls. And I would definitely be in some trouble if I tried to date Tara. But worth it. I would totally do it. well Deandre this was this was awesome I could uh I say this to a lot of my guests but like I really could talk to you for hours about this and uh we should um I would love to go over Freddy versus Jason with you because Monica Keen is actually a friend of mine and maybe the three of us could revisit Freddy versus I've never talked to her in my life she is never met her never had that on her that would be awesome uh that we're gonna make that happen shout out shout out to you I've been trying to get Monica on here for a while just schedules haven't quite lined up And then I suggested, hey, let's I'm seeing a renaissance of Freddy versus Jason and this new sort of appreciation for it. And she is one of the sweetest souls you'll ever meet. So, yeah. Listen, it is my before I die. I want to throw a rave in a cornfield because of that movie. I so badly want to get people together in a cornfield, maybe have a Freddy and a Jason walking around. I don't want to light the corn on fire because I would be dangerous. But man, do I want to go to that party so bad? Love that movie. Love that movie. we're manifesting it so I think we're going to make that happen so Monica if you're listening the ball is in your court let's get that all scheduled before we go Deandra because we went over the nursery rhyme in Dream Master I want to kind of send you off with my own nursery rhyme when it comes to you so now I say this now I lay me down to sleep the truce of Elm Street Deandra will keep Alice is the Dream Master who appears on screen and Deandra is the undisputed disputed Elm Street queen. Aw, thank you. I love that. Thank you. And no lies were told. This has been so fun. Shucks. No, this has been fun. And I love that you are also a very deep thinker about movies. Because you're right. This is one of those things when you could just talk about it for hours because there is so much to explore. But for next time. Absolutely. Before we go, where can people find you on socials? And is there anything we can look out for? because you do such great content on your page and that's how I got hip to you. And I would love for others to get hip to your content as well. Thank you. Yeah, I'm on Instagram and TikTok at Sassy Sledgehammer. I do Twitter too, but those are the two where I've delved more, not in just nightmare content, but also trying to dive a little bit deeper into horror in general because I love deep thinking about horror movies. But every Friday, I try to do a Freddy Friday video, diving into something on the world of Elm Street. And of course, there's just a plethora of nightmare because I live, eat, sleep and breathe it there. And I'm hoping to be working on I'm working on a project now that hopefully I can announce and maybe this year at some point in time, it really depends on some approvals. So we'll see about that. I love that. Well, we'll talk off mic about that because I would love to learn more about what I could possibly do to help him what we could do to collaborate on the film side. But off mic we'll get off the record for that because uh you know because that's how we should do it but thanks again we'll we'll we'll meet up again and we'll talk some more and uh eventually i want to start doing live shows that that was pretty scary so maybe and one of them is like i want to almost do like a like a watch along with like horror fans so i i want to do it some point like an activation so we'll talk i think there's a lot of planning that i'm trying to do for that stuff and you know i think it's important that we start getting real time and uh connection with people and what better way to do that than at a theater where we can watch a movie we all love together and then talk about it together. So we'll more on that later, but I just want to throw that idea into your head and just know that something's coming and I definitely want you involved once that's up and running. That's awesome. Would love to. All right. I love it. I love it. So we'll talk again soon. DeAndra, thank you for joining me. Thank you, as always, Scaries, for listening week in and week out. We will be back next week. But until then, as always, stay scary. Out of the下