NFL Draft Preview Cram Sesh: NFC East + NFC North

Jamie Lang and Sophie Habou have arrived on Disney Plus. We're having a baby! We're having a baby! I've always wanted to be a mum. And we're bringing you on our journey through everything. I have no idea what we're doing. Thank you. I have more of an idea. I think of it like a Tamagotchi. At the end of all of this... Can I have a little baby? Raising Chelsea, a Hulu original series, streaming exclusively on Disney Plus. 18 Plus subscription required. Tee's and Tee's apply. Hello! Welcome back to Heed the Call, our Wednesday episode, our second episode of the week, and a very special part of our lead-up to the draft. We are continuing what we would call a limited series. It's a special little series, our HTC draft cram sesh. And that's where we basically check in on all eight divisions, cut through the white noise, cut through the fog of war, and give you plain, straight, honest answers about what's to come. And we've got a couple of great guests today. We have got Dave Hellman on the NFC East and our friend, Arif Hassan on the NFC North. What we don't have today, Connor, is Dan Hansis, who is our friend who is getting some very needed and deserved time off. Reports are filtering in, because we don't know where he is, but that he is busy, I believe, feeding the homeless, taking care of youth and children in need during his time away from the show. So, Connor, how do you feel about Dan being engaged in those activities? We are whores. For money. I've always called him Saint Dan of Calcutta, and now this is where he goes and earns it. You know, I have dispatched a tabloid photographer just to make sure, though, because this day and age, you can just never know. So it's a it's a big week for that. So I think that you're right on the pulse of things. I would ask you because, you know, we haven't seen a couple days. I know you're busy. Your house out in the tri-state area is bustling. And as we lead up to the draft, is there in the eyes of your many children? Is there a glow in their eyes? Is there a glow in the eyes of your wife as we lead towards the NFL draft? What's the vibe? I don't think the glow has anything to do with the NFL draft. I think the glow has to do with the fact that like this season is almost over. I wouldn't associate a glow with like dad is about to lock himself in the basement for 11 straight hours and then like only come up to feed occasionally. My son, though, is very locked in on the Giants. He's five. He's decided that this is his new passion. And so I think he's pretty interested in who they might pick and specifically if they might pick someone that I just flew out to California to do a story on. He's going to be a top five pick. Well, it does feel like the draft is especially that super sleepy day three. They got to work on that where you could sit with a child and maybe enjoy it or they could help keep you awake, especially on day three. So I have an interesting take on this because I would argue they said that ESPN got way too deep into the personal narrative side of things. And in the joke was like, OK, it's their height, weight, school, and then the most horrific thing that ever happened to them in that order when they get drafted. But I think my wife who couldn't care less about football and that's one of my favorite things about her. It does draw her in like I remember years where we were dating and she was sitting there with rapt attention about Laramie Tunsel or, you know, Carson Wentz or Jared Goff and like she only just logged in like eight minutes before the start of the draft. And I do think that there is some value to that. And I think they do do a good job of like drawing in, you know, you're not casual fan, your children, all that kind of stuff. So I mean, I hate to compliment them, but they do that well. No, they do. I locked in my mind was a day sitting in the NFL Newsroom on day three when I believe a cow announced the pick. And so they are finding a way to reach new audiences, animals, friends of the forest. But let's get down to it. We're going to dig into the NFC East with our very special guest. He's covered the Dallas Cowboys in the past for years and years. He has seen some shit. You can be certain of that. He is now a co-host on the athletic football show. You can also catch him on Building the Beast with Dane Brugler. It is our friend Dave Hellman. How you doing, Dave? I'm so excited to be here, y'all. And not only am I happy to see y'all, but look, I love talking draft. I love talking the lead, but the NFC East is my roots. It's like it's where I cut my teeth. So it feels nice to be back. It's a nice thick soup. And like I haven't had a chance to work with Dave or meet him in person. I tried to introduce myself yesterday over text. I was in a hotel and I butt dialed and that's how I met Dave. So let's try to make this a little bit more of a smooth landing. Let's start with the division winner, the Eagles, a very interesting team at this point. I end so they went 11 and six a year ago, lost the wild card to the Niners. And this team to me, man, I mean, if I were to watch a movie on Netflix about the idea of a football team at this point in time, it might be the Eagles because they're just if they can't seem to escape any sort of drama storyline in this off season so far. They added Rick Wollin, Johnny Munt, Jonathan Jones. They traded for Andy Dalton, which is an interesting move, considering they have a Tanner McKee backup that people on this show like quite a bit. They re-signed Dallas Goddard, the key departures, Jalen Phillips out the door. He was a big player for them a year ago. Reed Blankenship at safety, Nicobi Dean. They lost a couple of guys on defense. So their top needs right now look to be defensive end. Wide receiver offensive line. They've got a first round pick at number 23. I will say, though, it's just like this team hangs in the atmosphere to me. No matter what time of year it is, where they're on their fifth offensive coordinator since 2020, they're a year removed from the Super Bowl. Half the population doesn't believe in their head coach. The other does. The star wide receiver is likely to get traded. And we can't go a week without whispers and a whisper campaign about what the people in the building feel about Jalen Hurts. So, Dave, what do you think? Howie Roseman's next move is here. I I wish I wish the Eagles could just be normal. But like, why? Why is a team this good, this addicted to drama? I will never understand. I guess to answer your question more directly, I'm conflicted about the Eagles because I agree with y'all or I agree with you, Mark, that I don't know. The writing seems on the wall that AJ Brown is going to be on his way out of Philadelphia when the calendar hits June, which even with Devontae Smith seems like it would create a pretty big need at wide receiver. And yet I firmly expect Howie Roseman to draft a lineman who played at an SEC school on 23rd. Whoever you prefer, that could be a tackle or an edge. I don't really care. But I think the Eagles are going to wait on that receiver need. And yeah, take take a take a right tackle heir apparent to Lane Johnson or add to their pass rush. That feels like what I expect the Eagles to do. And then maybe maybe we sort out the AJ Brown of it all on Friday with all of those extra picks they have. That's it. I mean, day two almost guarantees you moving AJ Brown after day one almost guarantees you first round next year, which is so much more valuable. I think then first round this year, comp. You're going to get a sample size of teams that missed out on the wide receiver that they wanted on the first day. And all of a sudden, AJ Brown looks like the bell of the ball. But I agree. I mean, replenishing the offensive line is kind of the only thing that they have that I think is at the top of their bingo card. And we notice they've added tight ends. They've made it a priority to resign tight ends. And I wonder if instead of kind of fighting the Jalen Hertz of it all, they're just sort of accepting the fact that they're going to have to play bigger than other people. They're going to have to vanilla this passing game or continue to vanilla this passing game, and they'd rather do it in 12 personnel, 13 personnel. They'd rather run the ball 25, 30 times a game and let Jalen Hertz just kind of remove himself from the equation like the Homer Simpson gif. Right. And I think, you know, drafting a right tackle fits in line with all that, I think. Do you think they there's a Howie Roseman to it all that does not want to do future business contract wise with Jalen Hertz? Because if you kind of look at what this team has been like, they got there on a rookie deal to the Super Bowl with Carson Wentzel, that was Nick Foles, and they did it with Jalen Hertz. Like, is that the model for Howie Roseman? Like, not that it's going to happen this year, but is it rebuild the team around him? But then at some point, we're moving on to the world of the rookie quarterback contract. OK, now this this puts me in a funny spot where I've I've never been the biggest believer in Jalen Hertz. Like, I feel like I've felt the same about him across the last three years. But it's funny if you can just stick in the middle. I don't feel that much differently about Jalen Hertz right now than I did when he won Super Bowl MVP. I just think he's an adequate quarterback who can clearly get you where you want to go. If you've got the right talent around him and I'm just I'm I'm not in a world where I'm really worried about what happens with Jalen Hertz's next contract just yet. Like, I'm really not. Do you all think I'm off base for that? I'm more along the lines of Jalen Hertz has proven twice that he can get you to the game you want to be in if the rest of your roster is up to snuff. And yeah, last year wasn't good. But guess what? Twenty twenty four wasn't as great as the championship trophy would have you believe either. So I'm just I'm not panicking about that. And I think it's a valid point to bring up that. I mean, Howie Roseman is so good at being one or two years ahead of the curve. Yes. And if if he wants to start looking out into the landscape for a quarterback of the future, or if he's already drawing up designs on whether he wants to extend Hertz again and what that number would be, that wouldn't surprise me at all. But that I mean, I look at it like that's more for him to be worried about as opposed to me. Like I think that Eagles absolutely have another couple years of contention. Like I think that's completely within the realm of possibility with Jalen Hertz is their quarterback. I think that this is the ultimate test of what they've espoused over the years. Like I remember when they went to that when they went to that Super Bowl that they won standing next to Jeffrey Lurie in the Eagles locker room full of cigar smoke. And he's talking about Red Hour back in the Celtics and knowing when to move before it's time. And this is why we fired Doug Peterson early before everyone expected it. But what's interesting about this wrinkle is Jalen Hertz is primarily the creation of Jeffrey Lurie. Jeffrey Lurie fell in love with Jalen Hertz. He was walking around the draft room at the time being like, this is the next Russell Wilson. I can feel it. He drafted him when they had Carson Wentz and he was right. But now the onus is on him. It's the guy who fell in love with Jalen Hertz before everybody else saw what nobody else saw. But now do you have the ability to move on from him when it's clear that he does not suit your needs anymore, at least not with the strength of the roster as it is? And so that's what I think. Yeah, that's why they remain. I just think the NFC is beguiling, fascinating, interesting, cutting edge type of team. Let's move on to what I like to call Dave's treasure chest, the Dallas Cowboys. All right. Now, they've been they've been a little more active than in some previous years for people complaining about what they did. They trade for Rashawn Gary, fourth round pick, I believe for that. They pick up Jalen Thompson, PJ Locke, Tyrus Wheat. I certainly have made a trade. Yes, you did. I see departures like with Osa leaving, Solomon Thomas, like there is some need on that defense. And I think the key issue there also is what happens with George Pickens. They franchised them. Is it going to be another summer long sit and wait for them to do something or come up with an answer there? Talent Terence Steel sticks around. Javante Williams, I would ask you this, Dave, because this is a team that finished 7, 9 and 1 under Brian Schottenheimer. They've got two first round picks. Is this team in a situation right now where they really are in a position to really change the Cowboys over maybe the next half decade with two first round picks off of the mica parts and trade part of that? Like, do you trust them to do something transformative or is it the same old story in Dallas? So I think when you talk about the top of this draft, I have a hard time believing that they're going to transform this defense with the talent that's available to them. I mean, I think like the uncomfortable truth of the matter is it's a bad year to have two top 20 picks. However, anything is possible. We see hidden gyms in the draft all the time. I mean, the guy that has prompted all of this angst, Micah Parsons fell all the way to 12. He was absolutely not supposed to be what he wound up being. So anything is possible. I think the more realistic outcome is that the Cowboys address this defense well enough to give their offense a shot to do something special. And I'm always painted as a bit of a Cowboys pessimist. I lived it a little too long to trust that they're going to get it right or be willing to do everything that they need to do. I mean, I've been saying throughout the spring. I actually I didn't hate what they did in free agency. It just it was a step short of where they need to be. Like they just have one one and a half too many needs to be heading into the draft with their roster in its current format. I will give them the credit of saying, though, George Pickens was not on the roster when the draft ended last year. So there is still time to do these things. I I don't think the Cowboys are that far away from being a team that can make some serious noise. Like especially if the Eagles are a half step worse than they were heading into last year. I think the Giants and Commanders are still a year or so away from being real factors. I don't think the Cowboys are that far away. I think it just hinges on how much ground you think they can gain with three big draft picks. I guess it's within the realm of possibility that they hit a grand slam in this draft and are ready to do that. I think the the realistic outcome is a little short of that. What's weird is I look at the Cowboys and I think it is obviously a defense first need, right? But I think I've never seen a team that when they do give away some of the valuable defensive players that they do, despite the fact that they have needs defensively, they give away the ones that are so universally beloved. And so in this case, Solomon Thomas and Osho Digi Zua were probably two of the greatest humans in that building. And in terms of like emotional equity, you talk to the coaches that were around them. Those were the guys that were keeping things together in a season where everybody had the right to be entirely cynical of the operation and maybe not want to show up and throw their body in front of a bus every week. And so it's kind of interesting because last year Jerry went vibes with the Booker pick and Booker, you talk to anybody in the NFL was blowing people away with the interpersonal pre draft. They loved who he was just as much as what he could do. And I'm wondering if that's the path again this year where it's like, hey, we need defensive help, but we also need guys that we're going to want around for the long term, because I do think that there was a little bit of maybe cynicism baking into the star a little bit. It puts a lot of pressure on Christian Parker, who it's another new. It's kind of like the the defensive version of the Eagles, where it's another person adopting, taking in the personnel, maybe not the perfect fit for his scheme, but he's got to work with what he has. And I mean, I did hear Schottenheimer say that at the complex, he's got defensive players sitting in Christian Parker's office like talking nonstop. There's a lot of interaction. Like I don't know how much of that is a day to day reality. But what have you guys heard about Christian Parker, Dave? And like, do you feel like this is someone that can turn this around? Because last year that was the undoing. You know, it's funny co hosting the athletic football show with Robert Mays. It's I have a fun receipt because you and obviously we're talking to Connor, who does such great work with the coaching industry and up and comers in that realm. I remember when Christian Parker got hired, and obviously I keep an ear to the ground with all things Dallas, no matter what I'm doing. And there was an air of cynicism almost where it was like, OK, how many people really knew who Christian Parker was two months ago? And now everybody's acting like he's going to be this savior of the Dallas defense. And again, working with Robert, I was like, not true. Christian Parker has so many fans and so many people have been well aware of the type of guy that he is dating all the way back to when he was in Denver with Vic Fangio. Like this is this is a guy who checks the boxes. If you're looking for an up and coming star, obviously, we don't know for sure that that'll be the case, but he has all the hallmarks. And I combine that with, you know, the thing that really got me on board with the Schottenheimer hire and I was not a fan of the process that led to him. But when he hired Clayton Adams to be as OC, I was like, OK, this guy's paying attention and is like, he knows who's hot in the coaching world and who is doing new exciting stuff. This is a really good hire. And lo and behold, not to give Clayton Adams all of the credit, but their offense kicked ass last year. And so you turn around and hire a guy in Christian Parker, who has similar amounts of people rooting for him and invested in him. I I think the world of it. I don't know if he can turn it all around in one year, but I feel pretty good about it. It's hard when you make like the up and coming coaching list. It's like, what's the meme? It's like the worst person, you know, just made an excellent point. It's like, you're like, that's so perfect. Like when the Dallas Cowboys hired Bryant Schottenheimer, I mean, it was like an eleven forty five p.m. And I just finished putting all the kids to bed and everyone's waking up and I'm in the worst mood. And so I just burned down Frisco on Si.com and just like leave no trace of a body. And then he goes out and ends up hiring like four of my favorite coaches to round out the staff. And I was like, yeah, you know what? Actually, he might be doing a pretty good job there. I don't know. The process, the process can be terrible and still yield good results, unfortunately. Yeah, that is a thing that can happen. I love that. All right. Let's move on to Washington. One of the more disappointing teams in the entire conference, obviously, year ago, they missed the playoffs. They're five and twelve. I think Dan Quinn under a little bit of pressure here. Adafi, the way they added Leo Chanel, Tim Settle, Claven Cheson, Chigal Conquo, who I know Justin Titans guy. I kind of like him at tight end, but he's a little under the radar. They keep Marcus Mariota, Traylin Berks, both their kicker, Jake Moody and Punter Tressway. Tyler Beattish has gone, Chris Rodriguez. And their needs are, I think it's like get back to running a Dan Quinn defense, not super veteran heavy, which it's been one of the oldest teams in the league, but address this and you've got the number seventh pick in the draft. You need defensive line. You need defensive backs. A wide receiver would help. I think a lot like I do wonder with this team, what like I just wonder if Dan Quinn is under a lot of pressure with the whole situation, with your quarterback at Jaden Daniel. Like you've got to kind of turn around and get back to where we were two years ago. And I wonder if there's any push and pull between what Adam Peters might want. If he looks at someone like a sunny styles, who we had like a Fred Warner in San Francisco. Do we recenter the defense around someone like that? Or do we go wide receiver and keep building around the quarterback, Dave, which has got to be priority number one most of the time for the commanders? I don't know anything for sure. Maybe Connor, you're so plugged in, maybe you could shed some light. But when you fall from NFC title game to a bismol, forgettable season and you shove both of your coordinators out the door in the process, like how could Dan Quinn be not under pressure? Like the I mean, this feels very much like a get get back above 500 or your or it's your ass type of year. Like that's my scapegoats, basically. Yeah, that's that's my read on it from afar. I am fascinated by the commanders. I think you hit the nail on the head. I mean, the the receiver depth chart scares the absolute bejesus out of me. I don't know. I don't know what you're supposed to do with that. I don't I don't know how Traylin Burks is in your starting lineup heading into the NFL draft. That seems scary. I think the secondary is probably something that you want to work on, even though I love the additions of Nick Cross and Amit Robertson. But I still think, you know, you could stand to upgrade that. My thing is with the commanders, and I love that Graver is listening to this. He can chime in if he wants to. The like the way this thing lines up, you OK, you could use a receiver. You could go defense. Maybe if one of the Ohio State guys falls to you. But what if Jeremiah Love is there for some reason? And all of a sudden, you're like, this is the best or second best player on our board. And we got him at seven and no, we don't really need a running back. But he could make a huge, huge impact again. If you're talking about a guy who's feeling pressure to deliver, I do think Jeremiah Love could like raise the floor of Washington's offense and be really, really dynamic right away. Is that the most responsible way to spend a top 10 pick? I don't know. But I'm fascinated by the idea that the commanders might have to make that decision. I can jump in to say, I think Jeremiah Love is a tremendous player. He's my favorite prospect in this draft. He won't be there because he's a Titan. He probably won't be there because the Titans will take him at four. And if they don't, then the Giants will take him at five, which is I mean, I don't know if that's true. You can see if you're watching on YouTube over my shoulder, I have a new addition to my background that says Jeremiah Love, no matter what. Classic draft day reference. Ha ha. Um, thank you for walking us through that, Justin. Yeah, of course. I think that Dan Quinn is like fired Cliff Kingsbury or whatever, mutually parted ways because he wants to get back to a more under center attack. And what better way to do that than with a elite bell cow running back? I know they signed Rashad White and Jerome Ford and free agency. Both of those guys. Does Dan know who his quarterback is? Like, has Jaden ever taken an under center snap? They are going to do that with David Blau, though. He's been very heavily on the record saying that they and I think it's coming from Quinn, too, that they and it's a little bit of a risk, but they're changing the way this quarterback plays. Hey, you see my you see my LSU baseball hat. Like that I was about to have a stroke watching Jaden do fourth and one from the gun. So like I'm I'm ready for Jaden to play under center, please. It's sort of a push all the chips in move by Dan Quinn, because if it backfires and Jaden struggles in this new offense, he's Dan Quinn is the one that like they're more tied to their franchise quarterback than they are to the head coach. Even if the head coach helped bring them back from the dead or whatever. But I do think Jeremiah Love is like the kind of guy who Rashad White and Jerome Ford don't preclude you from drafting the most talented offensive player in the draft if he is on the board at seven. And I don't think anyone should have any qualms about positional value there because every other player in this draft in my eyes has question marks that Jeremiah Love simply just doesn't have. The only question mark on love is positional value. That's not about him as a player. So to me, he's the best pick for like five different teams in the top 10. You should track Justin arguing with people about this on the internet. By the way, it's getting it's getting intense. I would say offensive in many ways. And so I, you know, I would I would just check that out. But love I put in the category of when you talk about the context of the commander's draft needs, he's not just a running back. It's like how we talked about a couple of weeks ago, Charlie Kohler and Alec Engel, not just being tight ends and full backs, but essentially being an extension of the offensive line. Right. Jeremiah Love is a great blocking back. He's a willing blocking back, which I think makes a big difference. One of his coaches told me at Notre Dame that he would be a first or second round picks a wide receiver, but like you're never going to put Saquon Barkley at wide receivers because he's that good at running back. Right. And so I think that there's a lot that he's going to be able to do schematically like Jamir Gibbs did for the Lions without, you know, just being pigeonholed into that very specific running back, you know, slot. So I don't know. I view him a little bit outside of that norm of positional value. I would agree with that. You could you could advertise the idea that like if he got to them where they are like the commanders could be in position to trade that pick and a crew future picks. But if I'm Dan Quinn, like I want someone to put on the tickets. I want someone to lead the league in Jersey sales along with my quarterback and build that fervor from two years ago and not lose this job. I'm not selling picks down the river for the next coach to go enjoy has his supper. So let's move on here to the New York Giants. They came in dead last in the NFC East. It is not 1990. It is not 1986 anymore in New York. It's been a bit of a mess. But John Harbaugh arrives. It feels like a major transitional period for the New York Giants. They hold the fifth pick in the draft. They added Tremaine Edmonds, Isaiah likely at tight end, Greg Newsom, the former Browns and Jaguars cornerback. Patrick Ricard at fullback. There are some Raven scenarios here. Jermaine Illuminaur and Evan Neil kept along the offensive on the on the offensive line. Wanda Robinson out the door. Daniel Bellinger. So this is a team that's looking at defensive line help linebacker help, wide receiver. And I would ask Dave this, like if you're the Giants, like you can go in a couple of different directions here. And there are some young pieces on this team that you like. And it feels like maybe Harbaugh can get them to be what they could have been last year, record wise in a better situation. But is this pick, if you're a John Harbaugh and you've been around the league for as long as he has, I guess, more of a symbolic pick to make it clear what your franchise is going to be about under John Harbaugh versus what maybe falls to them. Like is it something that this is who the New York Giants are under Harbaugh? It sure feels that way. And here's what I love about it, Mark. Because of the personality and the visibility of John Harbaugh and where he's coming from and what we know about him, you could just say whoever they pick is a symbol. You could just contort it to apply to whoever you want. If it's if it's Jeremiah Love, it's like John Harbaugh is here and we're going to run the damn football. Or if it's an offensive lineman, it's John Harbaugh is here and he cares about the fundamentals. We're making the boring pick. Like this is what we're going to do. If it's sunny styles, John Harbaugh is here and we're going to play Smash Mouth, New York, Giant football and tackle the hell out of the ball carrier. Like you could just make a pick and then say that it applies to John Harbaugh. It almost doesn't matter who they wind up taking. But yeah, I think that's right. But maybe it's a little more malleable than we give it credit for. The Giants, by the way, I don't know, Justin, if you want to give me the breaking news drop because this name was not in your graphic here, because it literally just happened. But the Giants just signed one of my favorite players in free agency. So I'm very jacked about this. Do you want me to just do I'm going to reveal it to the masses right now? Daniel Falele. OK, I mean, how do you get in? You're kidding. Yes. I mean, I can't say I'm surprised. One of my favorite players or I'm kidding that the John Harbaugh signed another Raven. Maybe a little bit of both. I'm kidding that John Harbaugh went out and got another Raven and the guy that most Ravens fans were so ready to be done with. But yeah, no, I love that. I fail to look at this person and maybe it is just like a sheer massive humanity thing. But but I think when it works, it's so aesthetically pleasing watching someone this size just devour someone that I don't understand why it can't work conceptually on a down by down basis or that you can just find a place to put this man and improve your offense in some way, shape or form. But it's irregardless of point. I think that the Giants are going offensive line here. I think they need offensive line here. And you make a great point, Dave, about the narrativization of the pick. This has been a 25 year issue with the New York Giants. It's the health of the offensive line. It's been grossly unhealthy. And I think it's valuable for Harbaugh to come in here and put his stamp on how to draft offensive linemen. I mean, we've had so many misses at this position over the last 15 years with essentially the same version of Giants group thing. And you have what I really like because you signed your main illuminor and free agency to be your resigns, your main illuminor, to be your right tackle. But you have a lot of these right tackle, caliber, offensive line prospects that are sitting in the top 10 that can all profile as guards at the NFL level and you can start them there and then you can grow them and there can be this organic process. And so I don't know, there's a lot of different directions that the Giants can go here, but I think it's got to be offensive line first. You have a young quarterback, you have a running game that you like. I mean, I think this is where you need to put your money. Could it switch up if, I mean, I know Kavon Tibido has been mentioned as a trade candidate, obviously, for a while and Dexter Lawrence has bubbled up saying that he wants to trade. It sounds like Harbaugh feels confident that they'll keep him around or maybe resign him, but that could change the landscape for the New York Giants. I tell you, why does everyone, why do people want out of this organization? I'm trying to figure out why Dexter Lawrence doesn't want to be with a John Harbaugh type who's finally arrived at the Giants like a coach you can count on. And it's like people want, I'm out of here. Do you love, by the way, that John Harbaugh talked on Tuesday and whenever when he was asked about Dexter Lawrence, he's like, super important. We want him around. And then was asked about Kavon Tibido and he's like, anyone could be traded, you know, if you're the two of them watching that, it's just like, oh, OK, one of us is not going to be here next year. I tend to agree with Conor. I don't know. I mean, we'll see what happens with Dexter Lawrence, but the amount of resources that they've sunk into their defensive front, going back to that well at the risk of not addressing something that could use it a little bit more. I told Graver this off the air before we came on. I think it's not even that I love him that much as a prospect. I just think Francis Maui-Noah gets overlooked a lot in these conversations. I think Tennessee and New York would both do well to draft that guy. And maybe it's not going to be the best pick in franchise history, but you could do a hell of a lot of good. And it's for similar reasons. I mean, he could play guard right away. He could eventually be your right tackle if he really exceeds expectations. Maybe he's your right tackle sooner rather than later. But for Tennessee and the Giants, I would be I'd be pretty pumped about that pick. Boys. We have we received something just randomly in the HTC voicemail box relating to the Giants and they're picking the draft. So I'm just going to play this. Oh. Welcome to a very special edition of Watkins with Giants. My art toy, Love Letter, the Pro Football's great Tiffany franchise. The New York Giants. Hello, it's Chris Walken. I'm having breakfast. I got a coffee from down the street to my favorite diner. I'm brought at home, made myself some old watery eggs and sardines. Breakfast of champions. I wanted to call. I wanted to say it is draft nonsense. It's heated. It's crazy. What am I G-man going to do? No one knows, but I can tell you right now what they should do. Don't fall in love. Fall in scat. As in scat a boo. That's right. Why fall in love when you could embrace a man who bulldozes? Monsters of the gridiron like the little babies in a playground. Now, it's not time to fall in love. It's time to roll around and scat. Walking out. Well, I guess. I take from that Jeremiah love at number five would not please Christopher Walken or his one man podcast. Which he just mails to us, by the way, I love that he doesn't. He emails it to us. It's very bizarre. Yeah, he doesn't trust like Apple podcast to distribute it like every other one. He wants to. It's like a direct to consumer business, which is. I am immediately after we get done here, going to go watch the SNL skits where walking is in the like hotel penthouse, you know, the continental or whatever it's called. The difference here is that's the real Christopher Walken on the this is this actual show. But. You know, Dave, thank you so much. You've said it all. You took us team by team through the gnarly and rough and tumble NFC East. And we'd love to have you on again sometime soon. Thanks, bud. This was a blast, guys. It was great to see you. Great talking ball. Let's do it again soon. We will. Let's go to break. When you start something new, whether it's a podcast, a business or a side project, the what ifs show up. Fast. I remember thinking, what if nobody cares about this program? What if it doesn't work out? But Dan, the funny thing is those same what ifs can also push you to go for it. Because what if it does work? And if you're starting a business, having the right tools makes a huge difference. Oh, Sessi, ever the optimist Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the United States. They make it incredibly easy to get started with hundreds of ready to use templates that help you build a beautiful online store that fits your brand. Shopify is also packed with helpful AI tools that can write product descriptions, generate page headlines, and even enhance your product photography. Plus, Shopify helps you find your customers with easy to run email and social media campaigns so people actually hear about your brand. It's time to turn those what ifs into... with Shopify today. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com. Go to shopify.com. That's shopify.com. OK, and we are back. We are now going to take a look at the NFC North. Really with one of our favorites. He's become a big part of the Heed to Call family. It's Areef Hassan. He is the CEO and chief writer at Wide Left Football and host of the Lockdown Vikings after Dark Podcast. Arif, I've taken a look at this after Dark Podcast. It's got a little bit of a sexy late night flair to it. It's a little different than some of the other Lockdown offerings that that platform offers. Yeah, they kind of let us do whatever and then we asked Ross Jackson from Lockdown Saints to do the intro for us and it was very smooth and alluring. And we decided to kind of keep that vibe going. We've been talking about conspiracy theories. They might not even relate to the NFL. You know, just like whatever comes up, ostensibly the Vikings are a jumping off point. Like we talked about whether they could trade for Dexter Lawrence, but that's just an excuse to the hang out, which has been really fun. I enjoy it. You're like talking Vikings till the acid hits. Right, no, exactly. You're like, it's very, we're ideally we're hoping for a Doc Ellis game at one point in the middle of Vermont. I get that. Well, let's let's dive in here. We'll start with the 11 and 6 Chicago Bears division winning from a year ago, an incredible debut for Ben Johnson. But it is a team that looks a little different than a year ago. They spent so much money and did a good job showing up their offensive line. They're a little more cash strapped this time around, but they did add people in free agency. They got safety Kobe Bryant, Devin Bush, Garrett Bradbury at center, Neville Gallimore, Khalif Raymond, stole that away from a division rival. And, you know, the the Garrett Bradbury edition was because Drew Dalman also retired. So that's a change along the offensive line. They moved on from DJ Moore trading him. Tremaine Edmonds is also gone. So I guess with the Bears, they've got the 25th pick in the draft. It seems to me, Arif that they've got some pretty clear needs and I would look at defensive line. I will look at the fact that this was a team that was linked to Max Crosby early on before that thing turned into an apocalypse between the Raiders. And like, I would just say this, is it fair to look at this team and say that they are looking for an edge rusher to round out this defense because the offense feels pretty set to me. Yeah, which I think is kind of like an interesting situation that they find themselves in because, you know, I feel like they've been constantly looking for ways to get that offense going for whatever young quarterback they have. And finally, I think of achieved that like you can always use another wide receiver but I think for the most part, you know, they're good, right on offense and anything that they add there will be a value add as opposed to filling in a need to defensively. I think edge rusher makes a ton of sense they want somebody opposite Montez wet. I do think that they will want to take a look at safety they brought in Kobe Bryant $13.3 million a year. Right. But they lost both of their starting safeties in free agency really thought that we're going to hold on to brisker. But like, Ham Lewis, I don't think is enough to kind of fill that gap so I wouldn't shock me if they looked at safety and where they're picking in the draft. Safety is an area where they could look and edges fairly deep class so you know I wouldn't be shocked if they went safety then edge or edge then safety or like we've mentioned a little bit just the defensive line could be a first round pick as well. I do think sneakily maybe not a first round pick but your brother is on a one year deal and he's at the end of his you know so like I think that they'll want a long term safety or center to replace Bradbury I think that that's going to be important. I think that they pounded the table on this in the middle of the season at the end of the season. The bears were historically fortunate that all three of their offensive line signings maintain perfect health throughout the season and we're able to kind of form the center of that unit. Everyone's going defensive the bears but I do wonder if Ben Johnson is concerned enough. I mean he's up there with McVay and all those play callers on self scouting and self evolution. If you looked at the bears they were this you know to tight end team you know a decent amount of three by one but you know almost no two back you know there's stuff that they weren't doing maybe that some other teams were doing that I think offensive that were run by offensive minds that I think Ben respects and you try to follow that thread and project it outward where it's like would Chicago truly try to surprise someone and add something strange to the mix to diversify themselves offensive defense makes all the sense in the world but Ben can control the offense and Ben is in charge of everything when it comes to the Chicago Bears right now. I've also seen Caden Proctor the Alabama tackle linked to them and a couple different mocks and that dude is 358 pounds. I mean they they're trying to retain and keep that like the other teams in this division like I mean the Lions up until now like you like their identity on offense is what's going to get them there so I think that's interesting that maybe they they pull a surprise at some point. Let's move on to the Green Bay Packers. This is the team that came in second went to the wild card lost to the Bears. Matt LaFleur catching some heat last season for a number of things and I think it's an interesting point in time for the Green Bay Packers. They added Zaire Franklin, Benjamin St. Juist and Javon Hargrave and Skye Moore, but they traded away Rashon Gary. Kwe Walker is gone. They're the best backup quarterback in the league. Malik Willis is out the door and they really suffered a number of I question the defense because Jeff Haffley also goes to the Miami Dolphins. I thought that Jeff Haffley after many years of the defense being a problem in the wrong way really sure that up and made it a strength and you trade from Michael Parsons and now the coordinators out the door and they are definitely looking for defensive line help cornerback as well and maybe guard along the offensive line. You don't have a first round pick because of the Parsons trade. So I guess I'd ask the question and this is also a team that you know we're at the owners meetings and Matt LaFleur is answering questions about not player revolt but players that last year did not like their roles. I think like in Romeo Dobbs and Rashon Gary those are probably two of those names reading reports but you've also lost Elkin Jenkins and Rashid Walker. So suddenly I would ask the question to Reeve like did this team get better? I'm struggling to see a team that improved so far this off season. Yeah they had a lot of losses you know obviously throughout the year with the trade as well as at the end of the year and it would make sense I think for them to go in a lot of different directions I think if they didn't like kind of trust the way the Lucas Van Ness improved this last year and they wanted like a you know a more solid or reliable edge rush or maybe to compete with Lucas Van Ness in the second round it wouldn't shock me if they went in that direction even as you know it would make sense maybe to grab an offensive line and I think personally I think they're actually very confident with their offensive line setup you know wherever they're going to put Jordan Morgan wherever they're going to put Sean Ryan like all of that I think they think they're good there I don't know if I agree but it wouldn't shock me if they avoided offensive line early on and try to fill out that defensive room again of course like they'll need a corner back I think that they want interior pass rush because I think getting Javon Hargrave is not going to fix things long term for you and like the rest of the defensive line is like aside from Davante White very big very kind of like you know like Nizir Stakhouse like big right and so you might want want some interior pass rushers more along that defensive line and so I wouldn't shock me if they went in a bunch of different directions here linebacker makes a lot of sense this is a pretty good middle of the of the draft linebacker group right and losing quite Walker I don't know that Zaire Franklin is going to solve a ton of problems for you but having edge Cooper and having someone kind of paired with them I understand I think that makes a lot of sense I think they want to keep somebody like Isaiah McDuffie you know doing special team stuff so they're a bunch of directions that could go in the second round here but I really think that that edge defender would make a lot of sense even if they're happy with Lucas Van Ness because you don't even have Michael Parsons probably at the beginning of the year either right like that's something that you want to you know account for. I agree when you said interior pass rush because it was funny when when Jeff Hathley was still there the pre draft press conference last year before last year's draft they were talking about or maybe it was the end of season one the lack of interior pass rush and the fact that they needed more interior pass rush and it was funny because then Brian Gudekunds goes out and gets Michael Parsons and it's sort of like hey I needed like an SUV to get the kids to school and everyone's like cool here's a Lamborghini it takes premium fuel only one person's allowed to sit in it and it's very very expensive so please don't break it and I think what Green Bay needed was perhaps something a little bit different I'm not saying you would turn down Michael Parsons if Jerry Jerry Jones is handing him to you on a silver platter but I am seeing that there is a foundational need and this is an interesting defensive line class because probably your best tackle isn't even going to go in the first round this isn't like a class where you have your classic you know Aaron Donald interior menace guy I mean it might not be until the second round and so maybe that Green Bay the need matches a little bit where they are draft wise and they can finally start to button up that part of their defense. Kind of stascula I had one of you guys like when you lose like a Jeff Hathley right and this I like he went and got a job off of what he did last year and he totally deserved it like a new coordinator comes in like whether scheme or not like what happens to the players like how much unrest as it caused when you've got to suddenly deal with a completely new leader of the defense already is it just business as usual and you move forward. In my experience it really depends on the reputation of the play caller coming in and individually whether those players see a role for themselves like I know that when when Brian Flores came in a bunch of players like what what do I do here like I don't know and so like all of the individual meetings that he had with those players were really important to making sure that things could work out so. That's my experience I do know that a lot of players like now figured out I'm talented enough to fit in any defense but it is dependent on I think a couple of those factors. It does remind me I was actually for a reference that I made in a column for SI was watching all of the Robert California scenes from the office like the post Steve Carell and there there is like a real realism to that where you know I remember for example like when Ben Mac adieu took over as offensive coordinator the Giants and they had. That was his name for years the same guy now it's slipping my mind but you know one player was like yeah we just sat in his office and he just stared at me and he wouldn't he wanted me to talk first and so we just sat there in silence and so I think schematically there is obviously some differences but there are some personality differences to where there's there is a consternation there's a worry that like hey does this guy hate me I don't know what's going on here I mean I don't know if I like this or not so yeah. We all know what it's like to suddenly have a new a new manager a boss like it's a real dice scroll isn't it. Let's go to break. Understanding power requires more than headlines. I'm Peter Hamby host of the powers that be a podcast from Pock examining politics economics and media to provide context analysis and clarity without sensationalism. We ask how power operates who benefits and what's at stake. If you want to move beyond breaking news to deeper understanding. Join us on the powers that be new episodes every weekday. Follow the powers that be wherever you get your podcasts. Okay and we are back our team our third team. Arif it's your Minnesota Vikings you talk about them in the day you talk about them late at night obviously problem solved like we don't even need to do. Yeah don't worry about it they got it baby are we are we good here we're good. It is interesting because like I think there it's such like a fascinating turning point inflection point of like your general manager is out the door. Rob Brzezinski is your interim general manager the drafts coming up you really weren't able to add too much in free agency. You resigned a bunch of your own guys but Kyla Murray is the big signing there. Jalen Nailer is gone Ryan Kelly, Javon Hargrave, Jonathan Allen, CJ Ham. It looks like they're a team that you know I could see them keep beefing up the defense the defensive line center is probably something to look at safety. And you know this is a team that missed the playoffs last year I feel like Kevin O'Connell. I don't I'm trying to think of outside because he's in that sort of world of like he's looked at like a Shanahan. And yet he's had to like Shanahan in some seasons deal with so many quarterbacks during his tenure and the biggest question mark is the Kyla Murray fit and I agree with Dave Hellman. What he mentioned to us off the air that like he could see this going well because I do believe the Kyla Murray in the right place in time can be maximized is the perfect fit for Kevin O'Connell. I don't know but it is also a team that JJ McCarthy hangs out in the atmosphere as an organizational failure at this point. I don't know if he's even going to be on the roster come September. It wouldn't shock me if something else happened there depending on the tenor of the whole thing like where are you with the Vikings like is this the kind of thing where Kevin O'Connell of all people could find himself in a little bit of trouble if things went south or is he just absolutely locked in because as he should be. But things go things can get ugly quickly if the season goes off the rails in the columnary thing doesn't work and you've got JJ McCarthy not working also. Yeah this is kind of one of those where it's like he's not on a hot seat but like someone is warming it up right like there is some question mark about about whether the Vikings will continue to retain in which to me is a different question than should they right I think the way the Vikings make decisions is that they they really kind of demand. You know consistent playoff appearances whether or not that's healthy for the franchise long term. And I think that two consecutive years of missing the playoffs will lead to some serious questions I think that the reason what one of many reasons that they let go of quasi the way that they did was so that they could retain Kevin but still hold someone accountable for for how poorly everything went but we both know JJ McCarthy was a Kevin O'Connell decision not quasi a doffo men's decision right. But you know that leads to kind of like can you maximize columnary will that lead you lead you to a lot of places. But you know there's a lot of attention paid to the quarterback position rightly so it was the is the biggest problem. But the Vikings have a lot of questions along the defense a defense that performed very well last year outstandingly well two years ago incredibly well for most of the year three years ago. But Harrison Smith we technically don't have an answer the Vikings technically released him right but they they were very clear when they released him that they are open to bringing him back it was a post June 1 release was meant to spread out the cap more of a more of an accounting move. We don't know but either way you still need to resolve safety. So that is that is an area where a lot of people are mocking that position of the Vikings in the first round with or without losing Harrison Smith but especially with him because they did just did not get a lot out of Theo Jackson. And then there a cornerback is another area where I think that they would want to pay a fair amount of attention to because you know they they traded black men away I think like a sixth or something like that it turns out they very much needed you know a nickel corner you know having Byron Murphy and then just whoever kind of filling it out like Isaiah Rogers or they bring in James Pierre but I still think that there's another opportunity to bring in a corner. Defensive line they lost both Javon Hargrave and Jonathan Allen jail and Redmond is a diamond in the rough but I think you want more bodies there especially in interior run stuff or like a Caleb Banks type. And then and then you know they've got like running back to fill out receiver to fill out. I think one area that they'll probably pay more attention to than people have been giving them Ian Mock drafts is center because Ryan Kelly retired and what Michael Juergens lost his role as the backup center halfway through the season to a guy who has never snapped at the high school college or NFL level right like It's always what you want. Six five. Yeah right. The six five center who's like rocketing the ball over Carson Wentz's head and you're like I don't know if this is going to work out long term. So I do think that that one's probably the highest priority that we're not talking about but like safety is the very public one and in result if we say that the quarterback position is resolved obviously a huge question mark. One of the one of the goals here is to take advantage of how good this defense is but the defense has sloughed off in talent in a lot of big ways over the last two years that they really need to pay attention to. I wonder if it's like and I'm curious if from from your point if you think I'm overstating it but I do think that there was a degree of fibrous offensively to allow things to progress the way that they did right. But and on the defensive side of the ball you have an equally talented coaching staff and are you allowing that same degree of hubris to take over where it's like I'm Brian Flores I can jam this thing in with it just about anybody but the truth is Brian had players who could self call that defense who could call the defense on the fly on the field. It was similar to what the Seahawks did in the Super Bowl where you're empowering a handful of really smart players. You're setting the parameters during the week you're showing them what to look for but on the field they're making all those decisions on the fly like you're hearing in real time Harrison Smith or whoever's got the green dot is like hey this is what we're doing we're covering it this way we see it this way this is what we want. And so as a coach like that's exactly the way that you want it but you need that talent that caliber of player intellectually to be able to fill out that roster and so the slow trickle of players that leave Minnesota every little bit of kind of brain drain that happens there. I think that impacts the efficacy efficacy. God I thought I had of Brian Flores defense. You know when you have a big word coming and you know it's like five words ahead. And you just like you just get it up for it and you're like I'm going to nail this man I'm going to say efficacy and then you just slip over it and you just feel like a total douchebag. I believe I've done that about four times on this episode alone so you have you have an ally on that front. Yeah. Yeah. I mean this is what happens when you're a writer who podcasts right. In that order. Yeah. To your point about the Brian Flores defense in the way they set things up I think there is an amount of hubris there I think that they they have a high expectation for players which is not necessarily a bad thing but then you have to acquire players who can meet that expectation and so I thought there was a ton of hubris defensively the last off season when they brought in Isaiah Rogers who mostly worked out but I thought that that was a risk. Jeff Acuta did not work out at all. Theo Jackson they promoted internally to replace Cambine. Awful decision I think there and I think it was just like a look will handle it we know what's going on and when you've got players like Harrison Smith like Andrew Van Ginkl who's got the ability to make these on the fly calls right when you've got somebody like a Blake Cashman who's got that astounding capacity to make up for seeing what the defensive line is doing and seeing them screw up and then you change what you're going to do. In order to kind of resolve it. Those are fantastic players to have but you're losing those players and you keep on acquiring players that maybe don't have either the physical tools like sometimes Josh Metellus or maybe the mental tools necessarily which I don't like to name names for that but like we've seen that on the Vikings defense where where they just don't have the capacity they may have the physical capability to do what they need to do but they don't have the capacity and so you know you see that with the way that they you know they benched a line back they benched Ivan pace you know part way through the year and and I think that's a good thing. I think that to bring in Eric Wilson who you know was was very good but I think that there's been a lot of attrition on this defense that I don't know that they've got the ability to replace because they were so confident about their ability to find diamonds in the rough and they can kind of do it at a better than league average pace with players like Andrew Van Ginkl and Jalen Redmond and in a way Isaiah Rogers but you keep throwing those darts and you're going to land on a Jeff Acuta right like you're not you're not going to hit all of the and so you just get a high talent player. That complicated sometimes and then you end up in a spot. You're trading way Harrison Phillips and you bring in Jonathan Allen to Javon Hargrave way above the amount of value that they can provide you because you're making up for all of this lost talent and that's no way to live. Do you think Jonathan Granard winds up elsewhere or is that drama winding down. I think I think that drama is winding down. I think that there was a real possibility. I think it was over 50% possibility back in March that he was going to get traded. But my understanding is that there were teams willing to pay the draft value price that the trade price for him but we're not willing to pay for his contract demands and that our teams willing to pay his contract demands but not the trade value price. And so the fact that you had both of those things made it seem very likely that at some point something would get resolved but it never did. I think it's a little bit too late now. I wouldn't be shocked to see like an after draft you know trade in probably a player for player swap with some draft consideration but I think that that is now on the low end of likelihood whereas you know right before free agency I thought it was on the kind of high end. All right we'll move to the final team in the NFC North the Detroit Lions. Another team in this division in an interesting place. I you know Taylor Decker offensive tackle gone. David Montgomery gone. Alex Enzaloni like Al Kadeem Muhammad pieces pieces of the puzzle that were very important to the makeup of this Lions team and you add Isaiah Pacheco I think that's a step down then from Montgomery clearly to me. I want to have a child named Jews I'm gonna have another child and just name it. Ju Scrugs. That's my takeaway from taking a look at this list here. You know what I think what's interesting is happening to the Lions tell me if you guys agree is that I feel like over the last couple of years. You could walk into a bar and just say kind of Detroit Lions to the guy sitting next to you on the stool it's like we get it we get with this teams about they I think they had one of the strongest. Identities in the entire conference and then you lose Ben Johnson who's a huge part of that and then your battering offensive line. Starts aging out over the course of a couple seasons here and you wind up with injuries your fourth in the division so it's kind of like where do you go from here they've got the 17th pick in the draft. It just feels like a team that is I we know what they want to be. I think they can get there. There are definite there. They're definitely I think in a division that's going to that knows who they are that's going to challenge them and like is has their identity floated away did they need to make a change at all or even who the Detroit Lions think they are at this point. I don't think that they need to change their identity because I think if they do that they're going to lose a lot of what what works for them. But I do think that they need to you know find players that absolutely like you know the chew through glass kind of players that also happen to have the talent to to live up to that and that that's going to require a heavy investment they've said I think very recently actually they're comfortable with Penny is will playing left tackle and that leaves you open for right tackle they brought in Larry Borum so like maybe but I think that you know there there's a lot of right tackles in this draft that they could probably go after that that absolutely would be like the MFers that the Lions absolutely love to have right so I could see that they do need a center right with the right now retirement. I don't know that I guess they brought in Kate Mays for quite a bit of money so that's probably it but I just think that there's like it a lot of investment that they want to make that is hard to find you know because the players that win through grid often are winning through grit because they have to and don't necessarily have the talent right to just win on talent alone and that's who they are and that's how they coach and that's how the scheme is predicated on but you do end up with like a battering offensive line that has a bunch of injuries a battering secondary that has a ton of injuries I think two of them might not start the season I don't know what's going to happen with Kirby Joseph or Brian Branch but you need to bring in cornerbacks because I think they were even on cornerbacks in terms of lost and gained you need to bring in safeties you need to bring in I think obviously linebacker like you mentioned I don't think Derek Barnes can can work with Jack Campbell in that same way he's a very sub backage player if he's capable enough I think you need to bring it in I think you need to bring it in the edge rusher get constant conversation bring it in the edge rusher to compliment Aidan Hutchinson I don't I don't think a DJ want him is going to do it and you know because Marcus Davenport didn't do it I don't know that Peyton Turner is going to do it so yeah it's not every like they bring in players like a mod Hosni who if you know anything about him is such an easy guy to cheer for and absolutely like he yells in practice just to yell not because anything's happening right like the true is Detroit lion I've ever he does like he did CrossFit in Egypt for like 20 years or whatever right he's like a CrossFit champion yeah he rules right but he's not very good at football and so like that's like that's the the challenge for the Lions is like you need to bring in a ton of a mod Hosni and sewer like good at football and then those players are increasingly difficult to find I don't think that they should change their identity but I do think that that puts them with a small margin for error in terms of acquiring players that fit what they do well because with Dave Helman made a great point I think about John Harbaugh earlier about like you can narrate a visa pick to fit anything right and I think what Dan was so good at when he was with the Lions was recognizing the lack of skill and then telling everyone in the locker room that their strength was great right because you know it's like it's what your parents say especially to me it's like well Connor you never give up because I have no other chance right you know there's you just have to keep going right and I think that really you got to the point where I remember Dan actually telling me this like I want to set this team up to the point where I received completely from all of this and he he made the analogy like I am the break in case of emergency behind the fireglass right the problem is the emergency has occurred like massive attrition on the offensive line brain drain on your coaching staff and now grit is not central to what you need to stay at the same time if the mask is really a really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really can keep us in contention in this division. It was almost like he was obviously an overtly and hard knock show this too. The perfect coach at the perfect time for a team and a fan base that had been lost at sea for literally decades. So you're right though, but like the best organizations that stay afloat for, why am I continually using water references here? But like, if you're gonna do that, like you have to rethink about who you are. And I do think that like this, the strength here is Dan Campbell. You found one of those guys that is a great manager of players and men and like, we'll do a, I kind of trust they'll get back. I mean, they weren't a disaster last year, but it was a disappointing campaign. So we will see for both of you, what have you got coming up that people can check out, Arif? Yeah, so I'm doing like a pro days that stood out to me. I'm covering people from like Culver Stockton College. It was really just like, yeah. So that's coming up probably Thursday morning. So hopefully, you know, very soon by the time people listen to this, and then I've got my consensus board stuff. So I bring in over a hundred big boards from around the NFL various draft analysts and tease out not just the aggregate rankings from the draft, but like who are the most polarizing players, which players have the largest variance, which, you know, insiders like players versus people who don't have as many sources inside buildings, like players, stuff like that, a bunch of different conclusions you can draw from finding rankings from a hundred, 112 different draft analysts is one of my biggest projects every year I love doing it. That's coming up soon. Beautiful, Connor. I mean, nothing like that. We got the, no, we have the Sports Illustrated draft preview issue coming out. Very excited. Got to spend time with a player who I imagine is going to be going in the top five, who Justin might be pretty excited to read about. So we'll see, you know, maybe dropping a little hint there. But yeah, buy a magazine, mother f***ers. Like this shit of you being on your phone all the damn time is killing you. And you know, you could just go to Barnes and Noble. It's there. You could sign up for it and we'll mail it to you. So all you got to do is walk to the mailbox. Like every week I talk to someone and they're like, I remember, you know, when I was a kid and it was awesome, like I got home from school and like the magazine was right in my mailbox. It's still there. Is this first from Gertner? You got to sign up for it. It's still there. It's still there. And it's great. It's awesome. Like, so just sign up for it and we'll send it to you. Yeah, unplug and read a magazine. Yeah, we'll send it to you. That's the thing. Like I'm going to mail it to you. Not personally, but like someone somewhere in an office is going to mail to you and you're going to love it. So sign up for it. I am in an apartment building up here in Hollywood and it's right along Hollywood Boulevard, as I mentioned, but I get the New York Times physically to live. And it's also put outside our building along what is I would call a five out of 10. I'd rate it at its best moment out of 10 as a street in terms of what's going on there. But so it's kind of potluck if you find the paper or not when you leave in the morning. But when I do walk around with it to your point, you know, it's a world of people that are visiting from other countries. But when they see me with a newspaper under my arm, I'm convinced they believe that I've marched out of a time machine. Like I went to a Starbucks once and asked, like, oh, do you guys do like the Sunday New York Times? And I sound really old seeing this. The guy like had never heard of the New York Times or the fact that a paper, a physical paper would be released on Sunday with a larger variety. So I'm with you. I'm with you on the. I hope you're wearing like a vest. You've got like a little Newsy's cap on. You're walking around. You know, you got like a nice watch on. Yeah. You know what I'm gonna work on that? This is gonna annoy the shit out of me. And it's gonna be someone like Justin in like 12 years, like some tech bro piece of shit who's gonna be like, you know, we're all tired of AI. And you know, so what we decided to do is like put it on physical paper to read. And like we call it like eye paper, you know, and everyone's gonna be like, whoa. And it's like, no, we haven't. They've already done that. It's paper, it's paper white. It's on E-ink. It replicates paper in a ton of different ways. And the thing, the worst thing is I have seriously considered purchasing it before I was like, wait a minute, I could just buy a book. Buy a book. I know. Hang on a second. Am I the tech bro asshole in this scenario? In. Yeah, white gravy. Out of everybody here. Yeah, who else would be? You took a stray there. That's, I think that's tech. I've never been described as a tech bro, but. You have, I mean, you're the one that is on video vaping, right? That feels like the most tech bro thing out of all four of us. That's very power. You have the most hair out of all of us. You're also that shape out of all of us. Yeah. I mean, I think you got a lot going for it. You know, I think you're in better shape than me. But yeah. No, for sure. Well, you seem to have low body fat, Justin. I'll leave it there. Like from what I can, from what I can tell from a distance. All right. Okay. We've had enough. We will be back on Thursday with another episode. Thank you so much to Dave Hellman. Thank you, Arif, for joining us. It's always a pleasure. We'll have you back on again soon. So get back on that little horsey. The season, the off season keeps going and keep doing what you must. You heed the call.