Elon Musk Podcast

Google AI Powers new 100-Hour Rust Battery

16 min
Feb 28, 2026about 2 months ago
Listen to Episode
Summary

Google is funding a 30 gigawatt-hour iron-air battery system in Minnesota to power a new data center with 100 hours of clean energy storage, solving the renewable intermittency problem for AI workloads. The deal represents a shift from traditional utility models to corporate-funded infrastructure, with Form Energy's rust-based battery chemistry offering a cheaper, safer alternative to lithium-ion for long-duration storage.

Insights
  • Long-duration energy storage (100+ hours) is now the critical bottleneck for renewable grid reliability, not generation capacity itself
  • Tech companies are becoming infrastructure developers, directly funding grid upgrades rather than relying on traditional utility models
  • Iron-air battery chemistry at 1/10th the cost of lithium-ion could fundamentally reshape energy economics, but scalability and supply chain maturity remain unproven
  • Regulatory innovation (Minnesota's CEAC model) is as important as technology innovation for enabling large-scale clean energy projects
  • Risk of a two-tiered grid emerging where only trillion-dollar companies can afford reliable 24/7 clean power while smaller utilities remain dependent on aging infrastructure
Trends
Corporate-funded energy infrastructure replacing traditional utility-led grid developmentLong-duration energy storage (LDES) becoming the primary focus for renewable grid integrationIron-air and alternative chemistries displacing lithium-ion dominance in stationary storage applicationsData center power demands driving innovation in grid reliability and energy storage technologyState-level regulatory frameworks (tariffs, cost isolation) enabling large corporate energy dealsDunkelflaut (multi-day renewable droughts) emerging as the primary technical challenge for 100% renewable gridsDomestic manufacturing reshoring for battery production (legacy steel infrastructure repurposing)Ratepayer protection becoming a politically salient issue in data center siting negotiationsDistributed energy resources (edge batteries) being deployed alongside centralized storage systemsCarbon-free power becoming an operational requirement (not just PR) for AI data center competitiveness
Topics
Long-Duration Energy Storage (LDES) TechnologyIron-Air Battery Chemistry and Reversible RustingAI Data Center Power Requirements and ReliabilityRenewable Energy Intermittency and DunkelflautGrid-Scale Battery Systems and Energy CapacityCorporate-Funded Energy InfrastructureUtility Rate Structure and Ratepayer ProtectionMinnesota Clean Energy Accelerator Charge (CEAC) Tariff ModelLithium-Ion vs. Alternative Battery ChemistriesData Center Siting and Local Community OppositionWind and Solar Integration at ScaleEnergy Storage Cost EconomicsGrid Decarbonization and Carbon-Free Power MandatesManufacturing Supply Chain LocalizationDistributed Energy Resources and Microgrid Development
Companies
Google
Funding entire 30 GWh battery and renewable energy project in Minnesota to power new AI data center with 100% carbon-...
Form Energy
Manufacturer of iron-air battery technology; building 100-hour duration batteries at 1/10th the cost of lithium-ion f...
Xcel Energy
Minnesota utility partner managing grid integration, infrastructure upgrades, and regulatory framework (CEAC) for Goo...
Microsoft
Referenced through former energy lead Brian Janis regarding data center rate structures and ratepayer protection pled...
People
Jennifer Granholm
Former U.S. Energy Secretary who praised the Minnesota deal as the prime example for how large energy projects should...
Brian Janis
Former Microsoft energy lead who argued that ratepayer protection pledges are redundant because data centers already ...
Quotes
"It is really hard to overstate the sheer scale of 30 gigawatt hours."
HostEarly in episode
"This represents a very physical answer to that AI energy crunch we keep hearing about."
HostMid-episode
"It breathes in oxygen to discharge, and it breathes out oxygen to recharge."
HostBattery chemistry explanation
"Form Energy claims they can store energy at less than one-tenth the cost of lithium ion."
HostCost comparison section
"Does this technology get cheap enough for everyone? Or do we create a two-tiered grid?"
HostClosing analysis
Full Transcript
30 gigawatt hours. Yeah. That is the number on the table today. We're looking at a 300 megawatt battery system going up in Minnesota. But the power output isn't even the headline here, it's the duration. This system provides 100 hours of storage. Which is just total capacity, 30 gigawatt hours. That makes it the largest battery project by energy capacity ever announced in the world. It is really hard to overstate the sheer scale of 30 gigawatt hours. I mean, usually when we talk about grid batteries, we're talking about, you know, a lithium ion container sitting at a substation somewhere. Right. And that's just designed to handle a quick spike in air conditioning use between maybe 5 and 9 p.m. This is an entirely different animal. And it's not for general grid storage either. No, exactly. This massive battery is specifically being built to power a new Google data center. They're partnering with Excel Energy to handle the massive, just continuous electrical load coming from artificial intelligence. It really feels like a shift from simply, you know, supporting the public grid to building an entirely new kind of infrastructure for just one specific customer. It is. This represents a very physical answer to that AI energy crunch we keep hearing about. But what makes this specific case study so compelling is that it touches on three really distinct layers. First, you have the chemistry, which is radically different from what is sitting in your phone right now. Then you have the financial structure, which involves Google paying for essentially everything. And then finally, you have the local reality on the ground in Pine Island, Minnesota, where the sci-fi technology literally meets small town zoning politics. So the question hanging over all of this for you listening is pretty straightforward. If we can actually build batteries that last for days instead of hours and using materials as cheap as iron and air, does that finally solve the reliability problem for renewables? Or does it just create a grid where only the wealthiest companies in the world can afford for the lights to stay on? And to answer that, you really have to look at the pressure driving the deal in the first place. It isn't just that Google wants to be green for PR reasons. Right. It's operational. Highly operational. Data centers, especially the ones running large language models, your Gemini's, your TAT GPT's, they have a totally flat, relentless demand profile. They run 24-7. And wind and solar obviously do not. Right. The sun sets, the wind dies down. That mismatch is the fundamental problem of the whole energy transition. And until now, the primary tool to fix it has just been lithium-ion batteries. Which are literally everywhere. I mean, they run our phones, our EVs. a huge chunk of our short-term grid storage. And lithium ion is an incredible technology. It is highly power dense and it reacts instantly. If a cloud passes over a solar farm, a lithium battery creates a bridge in milliseconds to keep the grid frequency stable. Yeah. But financially and chemically, lithium ion just hits a hard wall right around four hours of duration. Which four hours gets you through the evening peak. Yeah. But it doesn't help you if a storm system just parks itself over the Midwest for three days. Exactly. And in the energy industry, there is a very specific German word for that exact scenario. Dunkelflout. Dunkelflout. Yeah, dunkelflout. It translates roughly to dark doldrums. Dark doldrums. Right. These are periods where there is absolutely no sun and no wind for days at a time. So if you are a data center manager and your mandate is to run on 100% carbon-free electricity. Which, by the way, is Minnesota's official state goal by 2040. Exactly. So dunkle flout is the thing that keeps you up at night. Because if your battery dies after four hours and the forecast says there's no wind for another 40 hours, you have to fire up a natural gas plant. And that totally destroys your carbon goal So that is why the 100 duration is the specific answer to the Dunkelflout problem It a bridge Right This battery system isn designed for speed It's designed for endurance. It bridges those multi-day gaps without burning fossil fuels. Okay, so let's actually look at the machine itself. The company making these is Form Energy. Yeah. And I was looking at their spec sheet, and under chemistry, it literally just lists iron air. It sounds almost too simple. Because the fundamental principle is something we usually spend a lot of time and money trying to prevent. It relies on rusting. Hold on. We are trusting the reliability of the grid to rust. In a highly controlled way, yes. The process is officially called reversible rusting. The battery uses iron, water, and air. That's it. Okay. When the battery is discharging, meaning it's sending power out to the data center, it takes in oxygen from the outside air and exposes the iron inside the cell to it. The iron turns into iron oxide. Rusts. And that releases energy. Exactly. That chemical reaction releases electrons. So the act of resting creates the electricity. Wait, back up. How do you recharge a box of rust? You reverse the current. When the wind is blowing hard and you have excess electricity on the grid, you push that power back into the battery. That incoming energy forces the oxygen to detach from the rust, turning it back into metallic iron, and then it just expels the oxygen back out into the air. It's essentially breathing. That is actually the best way to visualize it. It breathes in oxygen to discharge, and it breathes out oxygen to recharge. I'm trying to picture the physical unit here. Is this just a giant tank of metal? It's modular. Each individual module is about the size of a side-by-side washer and dryer set. Okay. And inside that box, you have stacks of about 50 cells, each one a meter tall. They contain the iron anode, the air electrode, and a water-based electrolyte. That water-based part seems really significant for safety because we constantly hear about lithium batteries catching fire or going at the thermal runaway. It is a major differentiator. Because the electrolyte is water-based, it is completely non-flammable, there is zero risk of thermal runaway. Wow. You could technically shoot a hole in the side of this thing and it wouldn't explode. I mean, it might leak water, but it will not burn. That has to make the permitting process so much easier compared to putting in a massive lithium installation. Oh, absolutely. But if it's safer and it holds power longer, why isn't this exact chemistry in our electric cars right now? Weight. Iron is incredibly heavy. You do not want an iron air battery in your car. It would weigh as much as the vehicle itself. Right. But for a stationary grid battery just sitting in a field in Minnesota, weight is totally irrelevant. Cost is what matters. And Form Energy claims they can store energy at less than one-tenth the cost of lithium ion. One-tenth. That is the economic trigger here. Lithium ion packs cost somewhere around $130 to $150 per kilowatt hour. Form is targeting closer to $20. That is a massive gap. It entirely comes down to the materials. Iron is the most abundant metal on Earth. We know exactly how to work with it, and it's extremely cheap. We aren't mining cobalt in unstable regions. Yeah. The entire supply chain is domestic. In fact, these specific batteries are being manufactured right now in Weirton, West Virginia. That's Form Factory 1, right? Right. And the location really tells the story. Weirton used to be a massive steel town. Okay. Form Energy actually built their factory right on the site of a defunct steel mill. So they are using the legacy workforce and the existing infrastructure of the old steel industry to build the storage medium for the renewable age. That is a fascinating transition. Yeah. So we have a battery that is cheap, safe, and lasts for 100 hours. Yeah. But 30 gigawatt hours of storage is still a massive infrastructure project. Usually when a utility builds something this big the cost just gets passed right on to the ratepayers And this is where the so Minnesota model comes into play The regulatory framework here is honestly just as innovative as the chemistry It's being called the Clean Energy Accelerator Charge, or CEAC. Clean Energy Accelerator Charge. How does that actually differ from a normal utility rate hike? Well, in a traditional utility model, if Xcel Energy builds a new power plant, they take that cost, they add a guaranteed rate of return, and they'd just spread it out across everyone's electric bill. You, me, the local bakery, we all pay a slice. Which is standard since we all ostensibly use the grid. But this project is explicitly for Google. Exactly. And that is why the CESC is so different. Google is paying all the costs for this service. All of them. All of them. They're paying for the wind farms, the solar panels, the form energy batteries, and this is critical, the grid infrastructure upgrades required to actually hook it all up. So Excel Energy is claiming that residential bills will not go up one cent to support this growth. That is the promise. Excel has been very clear that the residential customer pays nothing extra for this specific project. And this connects directly to the broader ratepayer protection debate we are seeing nationally right now. Yeah, we heard about this recently in the State of the Union. President Trump announced a ratepayer protection pledge, basically demanding that data centers pay their own way so they don't drive up prices for regular families. Right. And it is a very politically popular stance. You have these trillion dollar tech companies coming into town and demanding literal gigawatts of power. It is completely natural to worry that regular people are going to foot the bill. But there is some disagreement on whether a pledge like that is even necessary. Yes. Brian Janis, who used to lead energy at Microsoft, argued recently that the pledge is, quote, meaningless. Meaningless because the data centers are already paying. His argument is that industrial customers have always had entirely different rate structures than residential ones. Okay. Data centers have generally always paid for their own load. Janus is basically saying, we were already going to pay for this anyway. So Google might look at the pledge and say it's completely redundant. Right. But the Minnesota deal formalizes it in a new way. It creates a highly specific tariff that totally isolates the cost. So just to reset here, Google gets the clean power and the reliability they need for AI. Excel gets a massive upgrade to their grid paid for by a corporate client. And the residential customer, theoretically, sees no change in their monthly bill. That's the deal on paper. I want to look at the sheer scope of what Google is actually buying here. We talked about the battery, but what is charging it? The agreement involves 1.9 gigawatts of new clean energy total. So you have the 300 megawatts of storage we discussed, but that is paired with 1,400 megawatts of wind and 200 megawatts of solar. 1,400? That is a lot of wind. Minnesota is a very wind-rich state. But there is another detail in the deal that is really worth highlighting. It's a $50 million investment in something Excel calls Capacity Connect. Capacity Connect. What does that money actually go toward? It's a distributed energy program. Instead of putting all the batteries in one giant field strictly for Google, this money goes toward putting utility-owned batteries at local businesses and industrial sites throughout the grid. So a local factory just gets a battery on-site? Yes. The idea is to help grid reliability at the edges, not just at the central beta center. It's essentially a sweetener for the broader grid. Let's zoom in on where this giant battery and data center are actually going. Pine Island, Minnesota. Yeah, a small city. Population is less than 4,000. It's roughly an hour south of the Twin Cities. And before this, their biggest claim to fame was holding a world record for a 6,000-pound block of cheese on a railroad flat car. Which is a very very different kind of heavy industry than artificial intelligence Just a little bit But clearly not everyone in Pine Island is happy about this transition No they aren There is a Facebook group called Stop the Pine Island Data Center that currently has over 600 members Wow. And in a town of 4,000, that is a significant percentage of the local population. What are their specific concerns? It's the usual friction you see with data centers, mostly water usage and noise. Data centers need massive amounts of water for cooling. Even with closed-loop systems, the overall consumption is high. Locals are worried about drawing down the local aquifer. And then there is the noise from the cooling fans. Yeah, we've seen reports from Ohio where residents living near data centers complain about just a constant inescapable hum. Right. And while this specific project avoids the air pollution concerns you normally get with diesel backup generators, since they are using the iron air batteries instead, the physical industrial footprint is still massive. You are turning quiet farmland into a high-tech industrial park. It's that classic tension between wanting all these digital services to work instantly but not wanting the physical infrastructure next door. Exactly. However, from a political standpoint, this project is being held up nationally as the model. Former Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm specifically praised this exact deal. Really? Yeah, she called it the prime example for how siting should be done. Just because of the Google funding structure? That and the legislative groundwork that made it possible. Minnesota passed laws in 2025 that set very strict environmental guardrails for these types of projects. Granholm's point is that you can't just let a massive buildout like this happen in a vacuum. You need state legislation that protects the environment first, and then you need a utility willing to actually create a contract structure like the CEAC to protect the ratepayers. So let's pull back and look at what all of this means for the energy transition as a whole. We have the world's largest battery by energy capacity made of iron and air, funded entirely by Google to basically bypass the limitations of the public grid and weather intermittency. It essentially proves that you can get firm 24-7 carbon-free power if you are willing to move beyond lithium ion. That is the key takeaway here. It feels like the Minnesota model shows that big tech can actually act as a catalyst. They aren't just buying paper credits to offset their carbon footprint anymore. They're funding the hard physical hardware that makes the grid reliable. That is the major shift. For years, companies would just buy renewable energy certificates. They'd pay for a wind farm in Texas to technically offset the emissions of a data center in Virginia. It was purely accounting. Yeah, spreadsheet exercise. Exactly. But this deal is about physics. It's about Google saying, I need actual power here in this spot right now, regardless of the weather, and I will pay for the infrastructure to make that happen. But if this technology works at this scale, if these iron air batteries do exactly what they say they can do, does that finally kill the argument that renewables are too unreliable? It weakens it significantly. The main argument against a purely renewable glid is always interminency. But if you can cost-effectively store 100 hours of energy, you simply don't need a gas peaker plant. You just have four days of backup sitting in a box. Right. The catch, of course, is the price tag. Google can afford to be the first mover and pay the premium to build this out. Can a municipal utility in a small town afford to do the same thing? That is the risk. Does this technology get cheap enough for everyone? Or do we create a two-tiered grid? One tier for the Googles of the world with these private, bulletproof green energy islands, and another tier for the rest of us relying on an aging grid that flickers every time the wind dies down. That is the real test of the Minnesota model. We'll be watching to see if the technology actually trickles down or just stays at the top. If you're not subscribed yet, take a second and hit follow on whatever app you're using. It helps us keep making this. We appreciate you being here.