Welcome back to Terms of Service. I'm CNN tech reporter Claire Duffy. As we gear up for the holidays, I have a feeling that many people will have tech gadgets on their wish lists. Phones, watches, VR devices, headphones. But I also know that for many of us, getting a new device means having to figure out how to dispose of the old one. Or adding it to a growing junk drawer of defunct technology. I wanted to understand the best and most responsible way to get rid of our old gadgets, and that's why I have Christine Dots Romero here with me today. She's the co-founder and executive director of the Lower East Side Ecology Center, which operates e-waste recycling programs here in New York City. My conversation with Christine after this short break. Thanks for being here, Christine. Oh, yeah, my pleasure. So you've been working in New York's environmental activism scene for more than 30 years. You've seen the rise and the rollout of all kinds of tech gadgets, every iPhone. I imagine you've been thinking about how to recycle electronics for a long time. So just to get us started, what exactly is e-waste? Yeah, sure. So e-waste is really any electronic product that is either broken or doesn't work anymore, not working, or maybe it's at the end of the useful life, or it's just plain on unwanted by the consumer. And examples, of course, would be handheld devices such as our cell phones or tablets, and also computers, TVs, and all peripherals that plug into these gadgets. And let's not forget, speaking of plugging in, cords, power supplies, charges, all of that is something that's considered e-waste and could be brought to an electronic waste recycling event. So last year, the United Nations reported an e-waste crisis. That is, quote, the global accumulation of electronic waste or e-waste is surging at an alarming rate, outpacing efforts in recycling. What are some of the factors that are driving this crisis? Yeah, it is truly alarming that we are generating more and more e-waste and our recycling rates are not going up for these discarded materials. And we really have to ask ourselves why there is so much e-waste generated. And one of the reasons, of course, is that devices are not designed to be repaired or to be upgraded or to last. oftentimes there is like this built-in obsolescence into these devices. And so we're chasing our tail here. And then once they break or become obsolete, they become trash. And another reason is, in my opinion, that for example, here in the United States, we are lacking laws that would mandate recycling of e-waste. We currently have 25 states and the District of Columbia that have laws on the books about e-waste disposal, making it oftentimes illegal to put electronics into the trash and fining people if they do so. And many of these laws require manufacturers to fund free collection events or require take-back programs. But in half of the states here, there is no such thing on the books. And of course, that's why electronics are not getting recycled, because there is no mechanism to really fund these programs. Yeah, the planned obsolescence piece, I think, is so important and something that so many people who are listening have probably experienced this frustration. I have a phone right now that's five years old and nothing has happened to it. It still looks fine. It should work, but it's really slowing down. It dies randomly, doesn't have as long of a battery. And it's so frustrating, this feeling like I wouldn't need to get a new phone, but for the fact that it's having these problems. How big of a problem is e-waste compared to other types of waste? Well, you know, the biggest problem with e-waste is really that it has so much toxic materials in it. So the EPA did a study and found that overall e-waste might constitute one to two percent of everything that ends up in landfill, but it contributes over 40 percent of the toxic material. So that's heavy metals like lead, mercury, catnium, and all of that ends up in our landfills. And that is just really very polluting and wasteful. Yeah, say more about that. What happens if e-waste doesn't get disposed of properly? So it ends up either in landfills or in an incinerator. And that is where it makes the most harm because it really should not be in that waste stream again because it contains so much toxic materials. Heavy metals, if they are released from the materials, can linger in landfills. Oftentimes, they generate leachy. So if it rains, rainwater percolates through a landfill and then the leachy needs to be managed. And sometimes that happens. Other times, if it's an older landfill that doesn't have a plastic liner, that can't really happen. And then that material goes right into the groundwater. So in other words, what really happens is that either groundwater or the air gets polluted. And I curious as we see this transition to more of our gadgets being smart gadgets You know we got robots doing the vacuuming in our home and more things that need chargers Is that all just adding to this problem, this e-waste problem? Yeah, it definitely is because we have so many gadgets that supposedly makes our life more convenient, But it also comes at a high price from manufacturing them, which is very intensive in terms of resources, to then also, you know, putting all these valuable things into a machine and then just no afterthought being given to what happens end of life when the Roomba stops working. Yeah, so it's a real problem. What does responsible disposal look like for tech gadgets? I would say that responsible disposal really needs to safeguard our environment, needs to safeguard the people that handle the discarded materials so that are working in a recycling plant. And it also has to guarantee data security. And all these three things must really come together to say that a gadget was disposed of responsibly. And there are certification programs existing here in the United States. So a reputable recycler is either an R2 certified or an e-stewardship certified recycler. And an e-steward is sort of the gold standard of the industry. This really ensures that the environment is safeguarded. So that means electronics are not just exported to a third world country and dumped someplace. And that would expose people and the environment to harm. That the people that work in the sampling these materials are protected. And again, that also the data that is on many of our devices is safeguarded. Yeah, that was a question for me. I think there are a lot of people, when they think about recycling more generally, like recycling plastic, that sort of thing, people have gotten sort of cynical about how well that process really works and if what they're recycling is actually truly being reused in a sustainable way. How successful is e-waste recycling if you go with one of those certified recycling centers? Well, it's very successful because a lot of the heavy metals, also precious metals, are really extracted through this process. But again, we need to really make sure that we are finding stewardship and e-certified programs that ensure that. Yeah, that feels like a really important point, especially because we know that some of the heavy metals, rare earth metals that go into our tech devices are in short supply. And as you said, the mining of them to create new devices is really taxing on the environment. So if we're able to reuse what we already have in our devices, that seems like a really positive thing. Yeah, it's really a win-win and it makes so much sense. And we just need to really make that happen to really create this circular movement of materials that were extracted but then can be used again to make other devices. And when we talk about disposing of electronic equipment responsibly, give us a few more examples of what kinds of devices we're talking about. If people are looking around their home thinking about what needs to be e-waste recycled, what kinds of things fall in that bucket? Yeah, so I think sometimes people, you know, I can speak here about New York, get confused because there are, of course, electric appliances, you mentioned, household appliances that also plug in and are electronic. But unfortunately, we can't really accept those materials at e-waste events because e-waste events are really driven by laws that make manufacturers responsible for offering these programs for free. And that's mostly really electronic manufacturers that manufacture computers, TVs, and all the gadgets that plug into it. So sometimes people get frustrated when they bring their coffee maker or their Roomba and then be telling them, sorry, but we cannot really use that for recycling. And here in New York City, at least, people are allowed to put these household appliances in with a regular recycling stream with metal glass and plastic. Hmm. And so when someone brings something to one of your e-waste recycling, if I brought an old charger, where does that then go? What happens to it? So we basically stage a big truck and lots of containers at an event, and then they get sorted as people chop them off, and then they get brought to the recycler where the sorting process really starts. And it's the manufacturers who are helping to pay for this because there's this mandate legally? Yes. So New York State was one of the states that passed an extended producer responsibility bill in 2012. And it became mandatory by 2015 for New York State residents to dispose of the electronics in a responsible way. And the whole program is really financed by mandating manufacturers to offer free programs because I think it really unfair to have material that hard to recycle And that also expensive to recycle Let face it to just for this to fall just on the municipality to pay for all of that So this service should really be provided by manufacturers and that will also incentivize manufacturers to think about the design of their gadgets and to maybe use less toxic materials in the manufacturing process or to make sure that their products last longer. Coming up, is there anything we can do to avoid creating e-waste to begin with? And after my conversation with Christine, I'll tell you about another big tech news story I'm following right now. We'll be right back. I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta, host of the Chasing Life podcast, hibernation. We've all heard the term and might even think we know what it means. Bears and squirrels, other animals, hunkering down for the winter, only to emerge when the warmer weather of spring arrives. But what if hibernation itself was more complicated than we realized? His heart rate will go from about three beats a minute to upwards of 400 beats per minute in about 10 minutes. That's incredible. And what if hibernators had superpowers that could one day be tapped for humans, for things like cancer, heart attacks, depression, and even space travel? Those are the questions researchers and scientists all over the world are getting closer to answering every day. Listen to Chasing Life. Streaming now, wherever you get your podcasts. Are there things that people can do to avoid creating more e-waste in the first place? I know I've seen on the subway ads for these refurbished devices companies. Does that help with this issue? Yeah, I mean, it's a huge help. It's really a step in the right direction. For example, we work with a B-certified company called Backmarket, where they offer refurbished materials and they offer technology that is a little bit older models, but is still very much functioning. The gadgets are tested. And if you get nostalgic for your iPod, you can purchase it there. I don't think Apple sells that anymore. So these things definitely help to cut that cycle of always the newest model. You know, if you think about it, for example, as you mentioned your cell phone, every year manufacturers come out with a new model. And you really wonder how much of a value are added in these new models. And oftentimes they just look a little bit different and might have another feature that you probably won't use anyhow. It's just to really entice people to purchase a new model. And yeah, and we need to break that cycle. And I think, again, as consumers, we need to also just step in and say, do we really want to play that game? What about repairing existing devices? You mentioned this. How easy or difficult is that for consumers? It should be easier. And there again, we have legislation. For example, here in New York State, we pass legislation that's called right to repair because oftentimes manufacturers are really trying to even take away sort of our agency as the owner of a device. Because if we open up that device to try to repair something or bring it to a mom and pop repair shop, we lose the guarantee for this device, right? And so it's really important to have safeguards and to assert the right to repair materials or devices. Because if you go to a store that is run by a manufacturer, they will just say, oh, you know, we'll buy it back and you can upgrade to the next device. Right. And so, you know, this cycle of always getting newer and newer models is encouraged and repair is not. Where do you think this is going? What do you think it will take for recycling e-waste to become as simple a social practice as recycling a soda can? And is that going to move quickly enough to keep up with the pile of devices that we're all accumulating? Well, you know, I guess really creating incentives and creating these programs that make it easy for consumers to recycle their old gadgets is important. But I would also say if we want to solve this problem by just creating more programs to recycle, that's just not getting at the bottom of this. We really need to rethink plant obsolescence and what the social and environmental costs really are of always creating newer models. And, you know, we need to break that cycle because just with recycling, that's just like sort of a reactive and important thing to do, of course. But we also need to get more proactive. Talk to me a little bit more about your organization, the Lower East Side Ecology Center, and what you're doing to help with these efforts. Just describe a bit the different kinds of e-waste recycling programs that you offer. Sure yeah So we started actually stepping into this space in 2003 We have offered e collection and recycling events since then and we have diverted over 11 million pounds of unwanted electronics out of the waste stream since then And we really do that by using a community approach to that So we work with other community organizations houses of worship or elected officials to really bring events into a community So oftentimes we set up in a highly visible area, sometimes curbside or in a parking lot in a park, and then invite people to bring their electronics. And oftentimes people just walking by, they're curious what we're doing. So we can educate people. We give them a schedule of more upcoming events. And we also just really answer questions and engage people and talk with them of why it's important to do something like that. How should people think about finding recycling centers nearby? Do you have advice if people listen to this and are inspired to go through their tech junk drawer? Yeah, there's several ways of doing that. One would be to find out whether your big box store, for example, accepts electronics. So a lot of them do Best Buy, Office Depot, Staples, and I would argue most people live close to some big box store like that. And so that's one way of finding recycling opportunities. And then also manufacturers oftentimes have websites where they offer buyback or takeback programs. So that's another way of finding these programs. And you touched on the importance of the data privacy and security piece of this. Before people take their e-waste to a designated recycling center, what's a good way to make sure that they have wiped their devices clean, that they won't lose their photos or other memories that are on those devices? Sure, yeah. For example, since you bring up photos and such, it is really a good practice to back up your phones to computers or into the cloud. And then you can also go to settings on your phone and find a place where you can either reset your phone to factory setting or it might just be called reset. And that way, after you backed up, of course, all your data is wiped off the phone and you secured your data in that way. And what about, like, I know I probably have an old flip phone sitting in a box somewhere that won't even turn on. Do certified recycling centers take their own steps to wipe data from those devices if I no longer have the charger and can't reset it? Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, that's part of really being responsible recycler. It's that data security piece. So that's taken very seriously. And for example, if you turn in a flip phone, you have a little SIM card where all your information is on. So you could physically remove that from your device. But a recycler will also just shred that material to physically destroy it. Is there anything I didn't ask you about this that you think is important to mention? I just really hope that people are encouraged to recycle the electronics and again, be a conscious consumer and think about how to really break that cycle of creating more and more of this electronic debris that needs to go someplace. Well, Christine, thank you so much. This was such an interesting and also really informative conversation. So I really appreciate it. Yeah, I enjoyed it. Thank you. A few takeaways as we head into a tech-heavy holiday season. First, e-waste laws differ from state to state, but heavy metals in our devices can be harmful to the environment if disposed of incorrectly. So it's important to think about how to be a responsible consumer. Consider where those devices will end up, and if you really need that newer model. But if you are looking to get rid of old tech, community groups like Christine's also operate around the country. Check locally to see if there's an initiative near you. And many big box stores like Staples and Best Buy also take old chargers and phones. But remember to check before you go what types of devices they accept. And lastly, if you're shopping for someone with a tech item on their wish list, consider refurbished options rather than buying brand new. If you want to learn more about Christine and the Lower East Side Ecology Center, you can find a link to their website in the show notes. And before we go, I wanted to tell you about one of the other big tech news stories I'm following right now. Last week, Australia implemented a law that bans all children under the age of 16 from holding accounts on 10 of the biggest social media platforms, including Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, and Reddit. The law puts the onus on the tech companies to verify users' ages and block young teens. Teens have had mixed reactions. Two Australian young people have already sued to block the law, claiming it infringes on their right to political expression. But many parents, who for years have asked for more help protecting their kids online, have applauded the effort. It's going to be a huge test. regulators around the world, including here in the U.S., will likely be watching to see if the Australia law could be a model to follow in other jurisdictions. That's all for this week's episode of Terms of Service. I'm Claire Duffy. Thanks so much for listening, and I'll talk to you next week.
