Indiana Bears? Breaking Down MAJOR Bears Stadium News + NFL Draft with Fran Duffy | Hoge & Jahns

what's up welcome in on a very newsy february 19th we are presented by old national bank here on hogan johns welcome in to the show johnsy uh we've already talked a little bit we've been We got a story up on the stadium news, a big show. We just found out as well that Jeff King's getting promoted to assistant general manager, which was expected. Just throw in a little bit more news. And then, which we previously had scheduled Fran Duffy to join us to talk draft today. We're pushing that back a little bit, but he is joining the show. You and I have been texting since last night, 730 in the morning. You broke some news. We were texting again. So for those who didn't catch the beginning of our emergency podcast, can you just give us a quick 90 second breakdown of where things stand with the bears now looming move? I would call it to Indiana. Yeah. And let me fully pay off our friends at old national bank. Before I do that as well, every play matters, whether it's on the field or in your financial life, the best teams win by delivering excellence at every level, old national bank where relationships and results matter. member FDIC. A lot of moving parts this morning. Didn't have the old copy in front of me as we started the show. So yeah, let's go through this. So just the last 24 hours, the Bears were talking to the governor's office of Illinois. Let's start in Illinois yesterday, really all week, but there were meetings yesterday and this was all supposed to be leading up to a finance committee meeting today where the mega projects bill was on the agenda, but not guaranteed to actually be called on to discuss further. Fast forward to this morning, not only do I get some information that it's not going to be called on, but the meeting is canceled completely, quickly followed by a ways and means committee meeting in Indianapolis at the Indiana state Capitol, where not only are they discussing Senate bill 27, which is their bill to put a stadium in Northwest Indiana for the bears. But it is amended and passed 24 nothing. And if you watch the live stream, it was a party. It was a full celebration. Hey, the bears are coming to Indiana. Meanwhile, the bears put out their own statement at the same time while this was going on. And as I pull that up, it was significant because they lauded it as the Senate Bill 27 would mark the most meaningful step forward in our stadium planning efforts to date. We are committed to finishing the remaining site specific necessary due diligence to support our vision to build a world-class stadium near the Wolf Lake area in Hammond, Indiana. The Speaker in Indiana also said in the hearing this morning that the bears are going to be putting $2 billion towards this stadium project, uh, $2 billion, uh, if 2 billion, 2 billion, I just, did I just misspeak like he did in the, in the hearing? Cause he said 2 million to begin with. And everybody was like, what? Uh, no 2 billion with a B and, uh, this was all, this is a significant step forward. I would say they are at the goal line to move to Indiana. Now, Johnsy, what's your reaction? Well, two words stand out to me in the Bears statement. Most meaningful. You could be mad at the Bears if you want, but my read on this situation for months, years, has been that the Bears have been ready to talk at length, in detail, about a lot of different things with the state of Illinois for a long time. And eventually, their patience just wore off. So to hear the Bears describe what's happening with Indiana right now as their most meaningful progress on their new stadium, that's significant to me. You don't put those words. And those are very important words put in there with a purpose. It's a message sent to everyone that this is going to go forward. And my question for you, because you've been on top of this for a while, I want to applaud you for this. Like what can the state of Illinois do to change the bears minds at this point? Because like you said, they're on the goal line with Indiana. They're on the state line. We'll call it. They're on the state line and they're about to cross it into Indiana. Well, this is, it's a great question because what they can't do is put together a better financial deal. It's just not going to happen. Indiana is bending over backwards here to give the bears. I'm honestly surprised that the bears are putting $2 billion towards us. Cause I don't think they, I didn't seem like they even needed to do that. So with the details of the Indiana deal, I can't wait to actually see how it's all laid out and what's committed and what the bears are going to be getting out of a stadium that they won't necessarily own right away. It sounds like they will in the future. Again, that's all speculation at this point, but what we do know is the financial package will be way better in Indiana. So I don't see any world in which. So to back this up, brought this up on the emergency, Bob. 1999, the Robert Kraft and the Patriots announced they were going to Connecticut. They were moving to Hartford. It was a done deal. It was signed with the governor of Connecticut. They had a press conference, the whole thing. And then there was a couple of things that happened. There was contamination with the stadium site, which is the last thing here. This is why this is not done. The stadium site, the due diligence with the actual site still needs to be, you know, fully vetted and decided on here that this can actually move forward with the actual land. Don't forget, this is a land deal. but also beyond what happened at the stadium site in Hartford, Connecticut, Massachusetts came back with a, with a better deal. And so craft Knicks, Connecticut, they went back, they built the new stadium in Foxborough. I don't think Illinois can come up with a better deal. All they can do is pass what the bears have been asking for now for a long, long time, multiple years, get the infrastructure done, give them the tax certainty that they're looking for. And then at that point with a worse deal, they just got to hope the bears come to their senses emotionally and take the worst deal to keep the bears in the state of Illinois. And that's the part of all this Johns that has swung so dramatically for the last two months, I would say. And as even, as I detailed on yesterday's CSGO bear show has been hard for me to accept because it just seems so unlike the McCaskies to make a move like, this. But the reality is, is they're fed up. George McCaskey reached the point where when you're going to come out in December and tell the bears that the bears are not going to be a priority in 2026, which is what Kevin Warren put in that open letter to fans back in December. At some point, how do you not move on? You have to get the ball moving here. And I, and so that's the part it's more of an emotional component I don't know what the state of Illinois can do to pull the Bears back it just felt like so much posturing for first for so long from the state of Illinois like even up to the end I brought this up on the the emergency show the past couple weeks the last week the last five days it felt like everyone was being interviewed about what's happening with the Bears different interviews different publications writing different things Like, and it was all positive. Like this is moving in the right direction with Springfield. Like things are going to work. Like the discussions are going great. And then you get this, like to me, it felt like the Illinois political machine got going to try to get some public support over the past couple of days. That was my read on the situation because my understanding from the other side of things is the Bears still weren't hearing what they wanted to hear whatsoever. Right. And I'll tell you what, I think it was a crucial moment yesterday. And there's a tweet this morning that is super interesting because Matt Hill, who is the deputy chief of staff for communications for Governor Pritzker in the state of Illinois, tweeted out after all this went down this morning. Illinois was ready to move this bill forward. After a productive three hour meeting yesterday, the Bears leaders requested that they move this hearing that was scheduled for this morning to make further tweaks to the bill. this morning we were surprised to see a statement lauding indiana and ignoring illinois so basically putting the blame on the bears for this hearing not happening this morning and saying the state of illinois was ready to move this bill forward so i don't know how many people have been paying close attention to this but the governor was asked yesterday point blank good questioning essentially that question are you ready to move this bill forward and he hesitated and he didn't answer that. And he basically just said, he cited an actual news source, a story that was written and said, I think they put it like there's progress. That's probably how we would put it right now. So I get what Matt Hill's trying to do this morning from a PR perspective, but the governor himself could have said that yesterday. And I think that that might've made a difference and he didn't. So this posturing, let me just put this in perspective, this sort of wishy-washy nature of the political statements as yes, to your point, Johns, they're doing all these interviews over the last couple of weeks, trying to make it seem like, okay, we're finally giving you the attention that you need to get this thing done. The actions speak louder than words. And this is a little too late this morning from, from Matt Hill, because I'll tell you what, they were even making jokes in the Indiana meeting this morning. Some of the politicians that are more in Indianapolis, downstate Indiana, because as Bragg said earlier, Northwest Indiana kind of gets ignored the same way that the Southern Illinois feels like it's ignored by the politicians in Chicago, right? It's sort of the inverse in Indiana. They were joking. They're like, man, we need to take some cues from you guys in Northwest Indiana because you guys get blank done. Like basically, you guys are straight to the point. Like we're, and there was no wishy-washy. It's like, we're doing this. This is what the bears are giving us. This is how we're going to handle this. This is exactly what you're going to be taxed in Hammond and in Lake County. Like they have the plates. They're putting all this forward. They're telling it to you right there for the whole world to see. And that's just not what's going on in Illinois at the same time. I said this long ago that I felt like Kevin Warren for a bit had to learn how Illinois politics, Chicago politics work. Like this was a whole new world for him just in terms of the dynamics of it. Like this wasn't Minnesota anymore. And I think he's learned pretty fast. The bears are operating like a serious business, a serious business with long-term thought process here. This isn't just the family operation that they're known for. There's some cutthroat side to them. Now this is the Kevin Warren way of doing business. I think in many ways it's refreshing. It's overdue. it should be characterized as such just because of how the bears have operated in the past but this is what you get in the other end of this it's emotional a lot of bears fans are upset about it my sons were upset about it this morning when i told them before school ruined their day my oldest son said like this like ruined his whole day going in into school but this is what happened um the other part of this i want to bring up because i know we have a lot of hogan johns listeners that aren't from really the Chicago area. They're overseas. They're from California. They're in Montana. They're in Florida. This property, this Wolf Lake property, Adam, is extremely close to actual Illinois, not Illinois addresses, Chicago addresses. Yeah. Like, theoretically, I don't know where it's going to be built over there, but if you look at this, there's like neighborhoods where fans, where employees could walk from. You can have a job at the stadium and live in Chicago, and you could get there on a short bus ride. That's how close, theoretically, this could be for a lot of Chicago residents. It really is. I mean, this Wolf Lake is on the border. It straddles the Illinois-Indiana border. But when we say Illinois, it's Chicago. It's Chicagoland. I mean, there's literally Chicagoans like me that grew up on the north side that didn't even realize there was an east side of Chicago. But Hedgewich is the neighborhood right there. And so this really... But I still have a million questions, Johns, though, because it's still in Indiana. And there's state lines for a reason. And so how this moves forward, I just imagine a lot of complications. Let's say hypothetically, there's a there's a the Bears will probably get a Super Bowl, right? Most new stadiums get a Super Bowl. That's kind of a big point of this whole thing. but how does that relationship work between the city of Chicago, the state of Illinois, and the fact that the actual game is across state lines in Indiana. Now, of course, this happened in New York city with the stadium being in New Jersey, but that was, they were already playing in New Jersey before that. This wasn't a move across state lines, the politics involved in all this, who's getting what revenue, from the final fours now, from the Super Bowls? How is that all going to be worked out? I don't know the answers to those questions right now, but if the Bears actually make this move, and it sure seems like that's where this thing is headed right now, the residual effects in the state of Illinois and the relationship between the Bears and the state and the city that is going to be fascinating to watch over these next few years Now selfishly Okay. This kind of sucks. My commute on game days has gotten worse. So for all those Bears fans in Northwest Chicago who live near Arlington Heights or the Northern Burbs or the Western Burbs, like I feel you on this. like my commute to work got a little bit longer, but at the same time, like I recognize what's afoot here. I really do. Maybe they can deliver at least a better stadium design than they had in Arlington Heights. Maybe that's the starting point for this. Maybe that's how they get everybody back on board. Yeah. We'll, you know, we'll have to move the CHCO tailgates to Bragg's cul-de-sac, I guess. I don't know. Oh, he would love that. Yeah. It's also like, apparently it doesn't matter, but someone says like Chris here in the comments is asking, do they move Halas Hall? No, but that's a long commute because I live by Halas Hall. But I don't necessarily have to go to the games. But is it though like, so the Bears players leave Saturday for their South Loop Hotel. It's not exactly like on the north side. It's the south, right? There's awful traffic on Saturdays. Awful. So they're sitting in traffic regardless. Now they just go around 294 all the way into Indiana. I'm not saying it's any shorter. It's not definitely miles wide. In terms of miles, it's not shorter. But time-wise, I don't know if it'll be much different. Like, I'm serious about this. So you know how, like, when you drive places, this sort of like the mental, like, are we there yet? Or I can't believe I have this much more to go. So every time since I moved to Vernon Hills, because you know what? I used to live in the city and I drive to Indianapolis a couple of times a year for combine, big 10 tournaments, big 10 championships or whatever. It never seemed like that bad of a drive. Now that I live in the Northern suburbs though, when I make that drive to Indianapolis and I go that route, 294 around the city, when you're driving home from Indianapolis, like Hammond sneaks the crown point. Like it sneaks up on you. You're like, I can't believe I'm already here. Like that, that wasn't that far. And Bragg's does that drive all the time from that area down to Indianapolis. Like it's nothing. And then you look at your GPS and you're like, how do I still have like an hour and 20 minutes left to go? Cause you feel like you're already back in Chicago, but you're not. because Chicago is so big and you're on the wrong end of it. So I don't know, man. It's, it feels far. I'm just saying it feels far. I'm guessing there's going to be some hotels down there and I'm guessing for some night games, I may ask our bosses for a night at one of those hotels that are driving home an hour. But do you know how many Chicagoans travel every Saturday into South bend for Notre Dame games? Yeah. I'm serious about this. like to Purdue games. Do you know how many Chicagoans go to Purdue games? A lot. To Indiana games? A lot. This trip is not a new one for Chicagoans, especially with the fight in Irish. By the busload, Chicagoans went to South Bend, Indiana for the Zach Bryant concert. It happens every year. This trek, while a pain in the butt for a lot of people, is one that Chicagoans are familiar with. They really are. There's also a ton of season ticket holders that are already coming from all over from Iowa, from Southern Illinois, from Indiana, from Michigan. We talked to Kirk Cousins at the Super Bowl. We had the podcast a couple weeks ago with him. He lives in Western Michigan and he's a Bears fed and he's like all four Hammond. Jonathan Nottingham Bears fan of the year lives in Michigan. He's like, oh, I can get to the stadium in an hour now. So it's not it's the it benefits a lot of other, you know, as I don't know about as many people. as it hurts, but it shifts a little. I've had numerous co-workers throughout my career who live in Indiana. It's not just Greg Braggs. I could give you a whole list of media personalities who live in Indiana. David Hall. David Hall lives there. Yurko lives in Northwest Indiana. Dan McNeil lives in Northwest Indiana. There's Mike Clark, who I used to work with at the Chicago Sun-Times. lives in northwest indiana multiple colleagues other family friends i've always viewed northwest indiana as part of the chicagoland area it's just on the other side of the state line so i just put this in here soldier field to what's called wolf lake memorial park just because i picked a spot near wolf lake because we don't know exactly where this is true where the where the site's going to be um how many miles do you think it is soldier field to wolf lake oh i actually had this now it's now it's escaping me i'm gonna say 15 miles it's 17 and i think it might actually be shorter if you just stay on 90 and go like to the middle of wolf wolf lake because this is kind of taking a different way so yeah it's like 15 17 miles it's not that far i mean that's that's basically the distance between soldier field and O'Hare airport. It's it might actually even be even closer. So, and it's right now it's a 24 minute drive. So I know that's not with a ton of traffic, but, um, just kind of puts it in perspective. All right. We need to take a break and we are going to shift the conversation to the draft because we did have Fran Duffy ready to go on the show today to discuss defensive linemen in the draft. We always love talking to Fran and his entire draft database on all CHCO.com is available for diehards. So all that is coming up next as we shift the conversation away from the stadium. We'll have more stadium talk later today on CHCO Bears live at 1 o'clock. So we will continue to have that story covered. But for now, we're going to go to the draft. But first. Hey, whether it's on the field or in your financial life, the best teams win by delivering excellence at every level. That's where our presenting sponsor on Hogan Johns old national bank comes in. They believe that every play matters from everyday checking to long-term planning and commercial banking. The team at old national bank is here to build momentum and help you move the ball forward. It all starts with a plan tailored for you by professionals that you trust from simple tasks to bigger financial moments. You can count on Old National Bank to coordinate your needs with steady, knowledgeable guidance that brings clarity and confidence to each step. It is a partnership designed to help you feel supported, not just today, but well into the future. So whether you're celebrating a big win or rebuilding after a tough loss or gearing up for wherever your stadium is headed on the move, Old National Bank's got you your back with tools, insights, and an expert crew that is always in your corner. So check out Old National Bank, member FDIC, where relationships and results matter. And Adam, did you see that awesome, soft-looking hoodie I was wearing on that show with Matt Bowen? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's one of my favorite pieces of clothing right now. That's from Quince. 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Cause I think Carm nailed it on the, on our emergency pod earlier. If this Indiana thing's going to work, they need to keep winning because no one's going to care where they play if they win. And if they don't, that's going to be a problem. So how do the bears continue to fix the defense and move towards a super bowl? Perhaps one that'll be played in Northwest Indiana someday. They do it through the draft. And that's why I bring in our draft analyst, our draft expert, Fran Duffy to the show. Fran, appreciate you jumping on. What's going on guys. I know it's a busy world out there and a busy day out there in Chicago land. Yeah, they're right. Chicago land. It's a good job putting the land in there. That was important today. We're learning quickly. All right. So we asked you for your top defensive lineman in this draft. And I just got to say, I was going through your spreadsheet. If you're a diehard subscriber, you got to check this out. It's updated in live time. There's just so much information in there. I got kind of lost in there. There's so much. And I mean that as the ultimate compliment. So where do you want to start with this conversation, Fran? I think we should probably start with the edge rushers, just because I feel like that is one of the stronger groups in this draft. I think that there's depth at defensive tackle, especially when you get into like the middle round. You know, you get into like day two, late day two. I think there's some depth there. But in terms of like the top end talent, like guys are going to go in the first round. I think that edge rusher is probably one of the strongest groups in this draft. Yeah. To your point, you looking at your your big board, which, by the way, if you're if you're not already a diehard using Fran Duffy's diehard draft guide. I mean, it is a working, living, breathing document that changes as he makes updates to it. So it's awesome. and in your, and you can sort it by position or just go to the overall big board. I'm looking at it right now and you have four edge rushers in your top six. Yeah. And I think that, look, this class, if you go back last week, I did on the all NFL draft newsletter. One of the things that I did, which is completely free. Don't need to be a diehard to get access to the newsletter. I went inside my process for how the big board gets constructed. Right. And so in terms of that, I watch a player for the first time or I make an update. how do they get slotted in the big board and there's like the use of the horizontal board and a vertical board and i'm gonna be honest man like when i am looking at my horizontal board where everything's like tiered out and you know blocked out in terms of uh the value of certain players and how much you know what impact i anticipate them having in the nfl i'm probably gonna have the fewest number of pure blue chip players that i've ever had in any draft like i there's just It does not have that top end talent. Now there are players that have the potential to reach that platform, but to me, like it's tough to feel really good about them. And so I do think that there are a number of really solid pass rushers in this class. But yeah, there's no, obviously there's no like Miles Garrett, but like even like Abdul Carter last year, like there's no one up to that tier. It just, it just so happens that there are a number of guys that I just feel have the ability to be really good and got profiles that I can buy into. So which players, which edge rushers do you think could be available to the Bears at number 25? Like, where does that list start? Yeah, I think that we know, like, Arvel Reese is not going to be there. We can talk about him as a linebacker or an edge, but Arvel Reese is not going to be there. David Bailey from Texas Tech, very unlikely to be there. Reuben Bain Jr. from Miami, unlikely to be there. I think that's where the cutoff happens. Now, I personally, one player that I think I'm definitely going to be sticking my neck out for in this class is Keldrick Falk, the defensive lineman from Auburn, who lines up up and down the line. I really like the profile. You know, this is a guy that does not turn 21 until the fall. He's 20 years old when he's drafted. He's tall. He's long. He's a great kid. He's got a clean medical record. The versatility, the ability to play both inside and outside really stands out. And while the production from like a sack and like TFL standpoint has not always been there, he is disruptive. He's always around the action. Guys always speak highly of them that have gone up against him. I've been hearing about Keldrick Falk from SEC offensive linemen for the last couple of years. His teammates all rave about him. His coaches love him. So to me, I look at this player as one that I'm going to buy in terms of like he could be a more productive pro than college player. Now, because of the lack of production, people are like, oh, like, I don't really know if he's going to be a top 10, top 15 type pick. So you're seeing him fall to the latter stages of round one in mock drafts. I find it hard to believe that he would fall all the way to the Bears. But, you know, we've seen crazier things happen. So I would start it there. Now, I think that would be a coup for Ryan Poles and for Ben Johnson and Dennis Allen. And I think he'd be a great fit. I think that he is exactly the type of player that would fit in a Dennis Allen scheme. yeah and then the the problem that i was having is we did our mock draft that we're gonna have you a great here in a little bit um the the problem i was having is if keldrick falk who you have number two overall when france says he's sticking his neck out for him he's not kidding um there seems to be a drop off between guys that'll go probably before the bears pick and then like maybe who's the Oklahoma kid I like, but he doesn't really fit. Yeah. Our Mason Thomas. I like our Mason Thomas when I watching him but I struggling to find the prototypical Dennis Allen Yes Defensive ends in this area especially if those top guys go off and which they probably will Yep And I'm starting to wonder, like, are we worrying about that a little bit too much? Is Dennis Allen worrying about that a little bit too much in terms of height and length? Because like at some point, you can't just be passing on good high motor edge rushers just because they're not tall and length lengthy. Yeah. And I'm of two minds on it. you know, when I, when I, I'm big into like following trends and body types of, of what coaches and decision makers like at each position. Right. And, uh, there is one thing to be said for, oh, it's, it's only a trend until it's not right. Oh, they, this team likes to draft long corners until they draft Devin Weatherspoon at five overall. Right. You always saw with the Seahawks. I think that at the end of the day, um, it's a kind of a case by case thing. I do think though that Dennis Allen, like he likes to play a certain way. And honestly, I think it matches up with what things we've heard from Ryan Poles going back to when he first got hired, where he's going to prioritize length and they're going to go bigger, faster, stronger kind of ideals across the board. And so I think that when you're looking at our Mason Thomas, you're looking at Cassius Howell from Texas A&M. I struggle to see like, yeah, like feel good about that being the fit. The guy that I think is like the sweet spot, if Keldrick Falk goes off the board, which might, again, my guess is he will be off the board by the time Chicago picks. The guy that I think could be in that sweet spot would be TJ Parker from Clemson, who was viewed back in the summer as a, you know, pension top five, top 10 pick. And I thought that was too rich. And now everyone's like, oh, like, no, like he's kind of a, he's kind of cast aside. I'm like, no, like he is a good player. And he is kind of one of those pocket pushers that wins with effort, that wins with play strength. He checks a lot of boxes. He's just not an elite athlete coming off the edge. I think he's fine. uh and i think that you know it's not a he's not a bad athlete i think he's a solid nfl athlete so i do think at the end of the day he'll probably be a late first round pick where does the conversation start in in the second round like let's say like i could easily envision this scenario for the bears like the top five pass rushers are off the board yep i don't want to say they settle for a defensive tackle we'll get to that position in a little bit because i think there's some great players there at number 25 at least in that position yep so they go defensive tackle number 25 who's there in the 50s for the bears to to look at yeah i would go with there's a few names there the first one that i i think i like a little bit more than everybody else in that cluster and that's the thing is that a lot of these guys are really bunched together and that's one of the values of being able to go to the combine and see them all work out back to back to back is just you know for me personally getting a chance to kind of compare them apples to apples but right now at the top of that stack for me would be denied dennis sutton from penn state uh He's just over 6'5", just under 270 pounds. He's got 33 1⁄2-inch arms. He checks all those boxes from a height, weight, length standpoint. I think that he plays the way that Dennis Allen wants those guys. He is all gas, no brakes. He's playing nonstop. He blocked three kicks this year. He's consistently productive against the run in the past. He was one of the tempo setters of a good, talented Penn State defense this past year. Obviously, a team that fell short of expectation, had a coach fired in the middle of the year. but that defense kept going. They nearly upset Indiana in the middle of the season, but weeks after James Franklin got fired. And Denny Dennis Sutton is one of those guys that, again, was one of those tempo setters for that unit. So I look at Denny Dennis Sutton as, yeah, not a first-round pick, but I think when you get into day two in this draft, he could be a solid starter. You know what you're getting with him on a week-to-week basis, and I think that he would be a good schematic fit for Dennis Allen. So our Mason Thomas, who I brought up earlier, you know, I really like his tape from a pass rush standpoint. I really was very close to putting him in as the bears pick at 25 overall, but two things kind of talked me out of it. One was your insight on him and you know, from a stopping the run perspective, he's a very good athlete, very, you know, twitchy explodes and pass rush. A lot of ways seems like exactly what the bears need and creating some disruption and getting after the quarterback. um but then the other is you know this he's 6'2 249 as well so it doesn't really it doesn't really fit the Dennis Allen profile at the same time but so what do you think about our Mason Thomas as a prospect whether he's a Bears fit or not yeah one of my like uh projects that I saved for myself for after the senior bowl was to watch a lot of these smaller edge rushers so you know we're talking David Bailey our Mason Thomas uh Arvel Reese uh Cassius Howell and a bunch of other guys thrown into that mix in that same archetype all right let me just watch them from the full season against the run about various number of cut-ups where it's like all right them at the point of attack how do they make their plays how did they when do they get moved off the ball what are some of the things that consistently show up in all these areas i think with our mason thomas the big thing that you see is that a lot of his splash plays come where he is kept clean where you know hey like uh he's unblocked off the back side and he's closed with that's that's good you want guys to be able to make those kind of plays if he's making a play on the front side it's because he was used as kind of like a looper on stunts and anything where he is kept clean. The moment that he had to play through contact, it was very mixed results and it typically went on the negative side of things. And so I do question whether or not he's going to be able to hold up as an every down, like pure edge rusher, like every down basis that said there is still value for being like a good like designated pass rusher type. And there are teams and schemes where that can fly. You can play a little bit lighter upfront. I don't know that Dennis Allen hasn't necessarily shown that he will play with those kinds of players. And so that's why it does give me pause when I try and project an R. Mason Thomas, Cassius Howell, who I had more reservations about against the run than Thomas. So I think when you're looking at this group, to me, I still trend towards some of these bigger body types looking at Chicago. So to shift this conversation to defensive tackle, your 14th overall prospect is Peter Wood's defensive tackle from Clemson. And you have a very interesting player comp here. yeah tommy harris what do you see about that one all right go ahead yeah floor is yours yeah i felt good he was a guy like because honestly there are there aren't a ton of like three techniques in the nf we'll get the official measurements next week a lot of when i do the player comps a lot of it is rooted in body type right and athletic testing trying to find like the right uh before the spider charts are readily available uh 10 days from now trying to get ahead of the curve there um and when i look at peter woods peter woods and i said like i'm like what his upside was watching him back over the summer so yeah like he has built the way that tommy harris was built now you know like my my football brain was very alive i wasn't like scouting tommy harris when he was coming out of college uh but i think that when you're looking at peter woods he has that upside to be that that consistently disruptive three technique on the interior a guy that plays with that level of physicality the thing that that kind of i don't want to say turned me off because i had a he was one of my top five players in this class going through the through the fall but getting into a lot of the late season film, I want to say like second half of the year, he was getting moved off the ball more than I would like to see. He was stuck on blocks more than I would want to see. You know? And so I think that's going to be an area where teams are going to have to ask those questions and get those answers is, Hey, like second half of the year, you're the team obviously did not meet expectations. You know, you weren't playing for a playoff bid and your level of play, not just like production, but like the level of play fell off. I wouldn't say the same about TJ Parker. TJ Parker was kind of playing the same way. throughout the course of the season, the production wasn't there, but I didn't see like a drop off in play with woods. I saw a drop off in play. And so that, that does give me cause for concern going into the stage of the stage of the process. And it's something that, yeah, he's still my DT one, because of what that upside can be. I just don't feel as good about him reaching that upside. He's a phenomenal talent. I'm excited to see him up close next week. Well, I think one of the reasons why we both ended up landing a defensive tackles in the first round, at least in our first mock, it's just kind of, how the board might fall on how, you know, the picking later in the first realm, it just with that first wave of edge rushers off the board, you're still thinking best player available. How can you help your defensive line as much as possible? It seems like there's a cluster defensive tackles there that could make sense. Yeah. Yeah. Woods would be, I would put him in that Keldrick Falk bucket in terms of like the possibility that he could fall to the bears in the latter stage of the first round. I think it's unlikely, not complete. It's not zero, but I think it's unlikely, but then you get into some of these other names and, you know, we've talked about Caleb Banks, who I know we'll talk about in a little bit with the mock draft. You get into Caden McDonald from Ohio state, Lee Hunter from Texas tech. You get, there are a number of names. I think you get into the latter stages around one at that position. That's where I think it's more of a sweet spot there as opposed to the edge rush where it's really only TJ Parker that makes sense. And then that's probably it. Did you want to ask him Hogue for his grades in our mock draft now? Well, Well, because we're throwing Pat Norton's grades way out the door. Well, let's start before you do the whole thing. Let's, let's talk around one then. So John's went with Lee Hunter from Texas tech. And I went with Caleb banks from Florida. Me personally, I prefer banks. Now basically how I have this defensive tackle tackle group stacked at the moment is I've got Peter woods clear number one, and then it's a, and I have banks clear number two. And then after that, it's a pretty tight cluster between Caden McDonald, Lee Hunter, Dominique orange. She has one of the best nicknames in this draft class, big citrus. I think that there's a, and then I Christian Miller from Georgia, right? I think you have that, that group all kind of clustered together. And I'm excited to see them all up close and get a really good sense of their movement next week in terms of how those guys are built together. And then continue to do more film on that group. But it is pretty tight. Now, the way that I would look at banks, I think he's got, I think the flashes are greater with Caleb Banks than they are with Lee Hunter. Personally, I think he's got more pass rush juice. I think Hunter is probably is a more consistent, like down to down and the profiles a little cleaner. We've talked about Banks and his medical history. So I, that one, I lean Banks, but you could swing me on Hunter. I just don't have as high a grade on, on Hunter at this point in the process. Yeah. I want to point that out real quick. Cause one of the reasons why, um, Fran, I want to give you a lot of credit is because, you know, I feel like we, this is no shot at anybody else. I just feel like when you look at and you do a great job of kind of looking at consensus, what the consensus might be on some of these players, whether it's a mock or what the big boards are, it, it just feels like by, by the time the dust settles, most of the big boards or most of, uh, the projections are all sort of in the same, um, area. but then when you actually talk to the teams, NFL teams draft boards vary a lot. I mean, there are, there are first round guys that aren't on this other team's board at all. And, and so I think a lot of times just because these, all these big boards and all look somewhat similar, if someone were to pull up yours and say Lee Hunter 96, you know, they might be like, well, how, how, how, how is that possible? But I just think that your big board is actually more reflective. to how much it actually varies within the 32 NFL teams. I appreciate that. And then the big thing, and I always get, it's funny, I get like hung up on it every year. I want to say like it'll be about a month from now because that's when everybody's like, oh, how could you possibly have this guy rated here and that guy rated there? But then eight months from now, we're going to be redrafting the 2026 draft and guys that are going to the sixth round are going to be up in the first round and guys in the first round, oh, this guy should never have been a first round pick. So we're willing to throw all of those preconceived notions away uh to be able to do the if we're redrafting this class um and we just we know how this goes right at the end of the day half of these first round picks aren't going to live up to expectation uh and there's going to be a number of guys that go day two day three that you know are going to far surpass those pre-draft expectations and so uh i learned a long time ago like settling in with like the group think is is just not the way to go um and to me like stand on your conviction so So, yeah, to me, like I like Lee Hunter, the player, but in terms of how he's evaluated, again, I covered that, how the valuation happens in the the all NFL draft newsletter last week. Yeah, that's kind of where I have him slotted at this point. He's also about to turn 24, like even my selection of him. I just you want to take the younger player sometimes. And I think that comes into real, like those are real discussions that happen in all buildings across the NFL. Like, has this player already reached his ceiling? You know, like it's all about the projection as well instead of just past performance. Okay. Round two, I feel confident I did better in this one than Hogue. So round two, pick 57. I took safety, AJ Halsey from LSU. Yep. and Hoag, as he always does, took an offensive tackle from Northwestern. This time, Caleb Tiernan. I like both of these players a lot. Both, I believe, are in my top 50. If not, they're very, very close to it. Tiernan is a player I'm going to be higher on, I think, than consensus, where I view him as a starter down the line. I've got a higher grade on him right now than I had on Ozzy Trapillo at this stage. At the end of the pre-draft process last year, I think that he's just a well-rounded, very technically sound player. He's got swing versatility like Trapillo did. So I like that pick. I really like Halsey too, though. And that's the thing. Halsey, I believe my player comp for Halsey was Kevin Byard. And I had a really high grade on Kevin Byard when he was coming out of Middle Tennessee a few years back. Met that expectation. Became an all-pro down in Tennessee. And he's still playing good football there for the Chicago Bears. So I would probably give both of you guys the same grade. I think I have, I probably have tiering in a little bit higher, just a positional value type of deal. But both guys are good players. I would give you guys the same grade on this one. You say Kevin Byard. So I went, I use my Bears cops. It's good. I like that. All right. How about the right? We don't have to go through each and every pick and every round here, but what'd you think about the rest of it? Yeah. I mean, look, at the end of the piece, when, when Pat gave out his, gave out his grades, He said, look, if we're just going strictly off of France draft guide, hope wins in a landslide So I would be crazy if I didn agree with that with that sentiment That said like there were a number of picks that I liked Johns I think you looking at some of these guys some of the late round swings First of all, like what made you take Jack Velling? I got, I have to ask about the Jack Velling pick in round seven. Well, really, I started just researching tight ends. And because specifically with the mindset that I think Ben Johnson will have going into the draft, where he's going to have a long list of tight ends that he wants because of how much 12 personnel, 13 personnel that he wants to play. Of course, he has Colson Loveland. Of course, he has Cole Komet. Those are his number one and number two tight ends. But I just think it's going to be a position in general that Ben Johnson himself as a former tight ends coach will put an emphasis on because of how much he values them in his offense. Yeah, this tight end class is extremely deep. It's like whether we've got more tight ends going to Indy next week than we've seen in like a couple of decades. It's a it's a really dense group. Now, the thing is, is that there's only really one guy that we're going to be talking about in the top 40, top 50. And that's Kenyon Tadiq. It's not like last year where you had Colston Loveland, you had Tyler Warren, you had Mason Foster from LSU. I'll go in the top 40 picks. Not going to be that way. Now, that said, when you get into this part of the draft, there are so many. And, you know, Jack Velling is one of those guys. That's why I was like, I got to ask how Velling was the one that he landed on because it is a really dense group. There's a lot of players that I think make a lot of sense for Chicago. You're trying to find compliments to that room. I think that he would absolutely make some sense there. But even just going through, like, these are all names that I think make a lot of sense. I like the Takario Davis pick, John. You should talk about Jalen Johnson. He steps out. Or not Jalen Johnson. The kid who had all the picks this year. Deshaun Wright. Yeah, Deshaun Wright. Thank you. from Oregon State. Nishan Wright steps out. Takario Davis, he's going to look exactly the same. A lot of the same pluses and minuses from my profile standpoint. But Hogan, round four, like you took Desmond Reed. I like Desmond Reed. And I think I might have compared him to Tariq Cohen. It's that kind of skill set. So you guys did a good job. This was a good piece. Here's a question for you. I got one more. So if you're the Bears and you have Caleb Williams, you're locked in here. So I know how a lot of teams start to feel. You want quarterbacks taken in front of you, as many quarterbacks as possible. What do you make of this quarterbacks class? And what are the chances that three quarterbacks at least are taken before 25? I think three is probably unlikely. I really like Garrett Nussmeier. I have, I leave the door open for him becoming a starter down the line. I do think Ty Simpson, there's a good chance that he does go ahead of the Chicago Bears uh so I think we're good at two but to sneak Nussmeyer in there as well uh I think is unlikely only because you've got a short runway in terms of experience he's only a two-year starter and did not finish the season play you know missed the last half of the year uh due to like the oblique core muscle injury that he was dealing with throughout the course of this year and then this the the uh the level of play fell off from a you know you just didn't you didn't see he wasn't he wasn't playing at peak capacity this past year it was an injury that hurt him from early on the season on and a lot of like the the late and middle of the field interceptions that we saw last year in his first year as a starter that i was hoping he'd cut out this year we just continue to see them this year and so i think it is it would be a tough sell for nuts to go in the first round um that said like would not shock me if he if he ended up there because like if other i know that there are people in the league that see him the same way i do and if that's the case it only it only takes one as we know uh to pull the trigger there right yeah i always go back to nuts myers uh he stepped in for Jaden Daniels in that bowl game a couple years ago against Wisconsin and watching that game I'm like, eh, this guy looks like an NFL quarterback. Like they just went from, uh, you know, a top five pick to, uh, to, to another really good player here. So I like that. I like Nussmeier, um, quite a bit too. All right. All of this information is in the draft guide. Uh, the draft database is I like to call it, um, because it, it really is just a database of information and how many write-ups are you up to now do you know i have let's see so i've gotten i can tell you right now so i've got 200 just over 240 players scouted like uh in terms of like full reports but there's bio info on i mean it's over let's see i can tell you right now it is over so wait for the screen to refresh uh yeah over 400 yeah just about 400 wow just about 400 players. So we've had this thing live since October. Yeah. We've had it live since October. So, uh, you know, you could have been following along during college football season if you wanted to, but now it's obviously filled out a lot more and, uh, in peak position going into the NFL combine next week, which is where we will see you next week, friend, uh, looking forward to that. And, um, hopefully we're not distracted too much by what will be going on across the street at the Indiana Capitol, uh, you know, with the, with the stadium stuff, Hopefully we can concentrate on the draft a little bit more. Thanks, Fran. See you guys. Appreciate it. All right, Fran Duffy. Again, you can scan that QR code or use code John's when you sign up if you want to get in on the draft guide. Plus you get a free t-shirt. Yeah. And let's be clear. Like you may use code John's, but Fran Duffy's draft analysis, over 400 player reviews already is rankings. Like you described it as living, breathing document and the changes as more information comes in. it's worth the diehard subscription itself, especially if you love the draft. So check. Yeah, look, there's, there's a lot of great draft analysts out there and, you know, a lot of great big boards and, and, you know, but there's, there's no other database like this that you can literally see updated as friends, you know, watching tape and putting his notes in there. Plus there's highlights links to highlights and every single profile too. So I mean, it is my go-to place for sure when it comes to the draft coverage. All right. We're going to close out with checking it out. Sponsored by old national bank. Every play matters, whether it's on the field or in your financial life, the best teams win by delivering excellence at every level, old national bank where relationships and results matter member FDIC. As we wrap up the show, checking out some other news from the bears today, expected news, but had to do with the front office and the promotion of Jeff King to replace Ian Cunningham as the Bears assistant general manager to Ryan Poles. As you said, expected replaces Ian Cunningham. And Jeff King has long been considered one of the Bears' best scouts for years. Going back to the Ryan Pace era, where he started moving up the ranks himself, getting longer titles, more responsibilities. He's got a good eye for quarterbacks. He's got a good eye for tight ends, which he played. I wrote a great feature on him calling my own stuff. Great. I wrote a feature on him for the athletic a couple of years ago. So check that out. It's probably still live somewhere. Just Google Adam Johns, Jeff King story for the athletic. I'm sure you can find it. This felt like a long time coming expected. He who interviewed him last year. Was it the chargers? A couple of years ago, when, when Harbaugh got the chargers job, There were a lot of people, I think even in the Bears front office too, that they thought they were going to have to replace Jeff King. Cause they, they thought that that relationship there, that Jeff, Jeff was going to get the GM job with the charges ended up not happening. So in some ways the Bears are fortunate that he's still, you know, in the front office for, for the Bears. He's got a very unique background, played basketball and football at Virginia tech. Yeah. So he's Julius Peppers. Yes, he's Julius Peppers. Correct. Well, that's good. I think they're actually former teammates with the Carolina Panthers. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, that makes sense. There you go. That connection there. That story that I wrote for The Athletic also opens up with an amazing anecdote that I think I got from Brandon Bean. Brandon Bean's the GM of the Bills, right? Yeah, Bean shared this awesome story about their time together in Carolina. So I hope you enjoy it. Yeah, that was a good story you wrote a couple years ago now, right? Yeah. I think what's interesting here, look, the Bears lost Ian Cunningham and they lost Declan Doyle. And yet, like yesterday, they announced their coaching staff changes and there's four dudes on the graphic. And the biggest one that you're having to replace is the OC, who let's all be honest here, Pat Johnson is the OC. This is his offense. Uh, in, I'm not trying to minimize what Ian Cunningham meant to the bears. That, that is a big loss, but being able to promote, promote Jeff King, who was already in a, you know, a really high scouting role and, uh, can easily step in there to be the right hand man for Ryan polls. The point I'm getting to is, you know, when you win, you lose guys, people get promoted, they get other opportunities. I think the bears are in a really good place in that. I don't think they, they're, they're not having to juggle too much or shift too much here, either in the front office or in their coaching staff going into next season. It could certainly be worse and probably will be worse in the future. You know, if they continue to win, you're going to start to see guys poached off the defense. Maybe I think it's only a matter of time now before Jeff King gets a job as to GM somewhere. If the Bears win, it will continue to be an issue. But right now, going into 2026, I think they're in a pretty good place to adjust. You get the head coach, right? There's an amazing ripple effect that happens. And I think right now, the vibes just feel so good about Ben Johnson. And it's like unanimous across the league. We didn't see Mark Helfrich getting a head coach or an offensive coordinator opportunity after the 2018 season with Matt Nagy. right. All right. I didn't mean to Mark Elfrich, but I think you get my point, but, but to your point, you get the head coach, right? And the head coach happens to also be the play caller and to be the one whose offense you're running. That is the stability that most teams are trying to chase and achieve in the NFL because it does help the trickle down effect. Steven Nicholas, who produces CHCO Bears pointing out right now, we are six subscribers away from 30,000. Come on, hit that button. Yeah, hit that button. Get us over 30,000 right now. There's got to be at least six people watching right now that aren't already subscribed. As we continue to keep you covered throughout the off season. Next week, that is going to include two shows from Indianapolis, from the combine, where we're going to hear from Ben Johnson. We're going to hear from Ryan Poles. We're going to bring you some good guests from what will be the NFL hub. Everybody in the NFL will be there from coaches to GMs to agents to media. To the governor of Indiana himself. It is fascinating that it could all be going right across the street at the Capitol. We're going to send Braggs over there because he's the region rat. It's his state. is reporting. We got some super chats before we get out of here, by the way. Oh, we do. Yes. Let me pull those up. All right. Team Marsh, $10. Quote, Bears don't spend money. Bears aren't a real organization. That mess is dead. Holding the state accountable and making them pay their tune instead of begging for scraps. Good on them. Hashtag big. I don't know what that was. Yeah. $10. Sports genius I was born and raised in Logan Square. If the Bears leave Chicago, it doesn't matter where they build. I live in the region. This is Bears country. The region is super excited. More from T. Marsh, I believe. Decades of the park district nonsense lost revenue. Lack of added value to the club. All coming to a head. The Bears aren't okay being a second-class citizen. They're going to get their pound of flesh. T. Marsh is all over this. I'm very happy with the Bears. Yeah, I think this goes back to the point we were making earlier in the show, is that the Bears are approaching this like a serious business operation. Love it, hate it. I know a lot of people in the chat hate it right now, but this is how they're operating right now under Kevin Warren. They're getting an awesome deal, or should. I know the details haven't fully come out, but some of the tidbits that we have gotten, like the deal they're about to get from Indiana, is one that we don't think Illinois can beat. Right, Adam? Right. A hundred percent. And sorry, I'm just responding. So this is some messages. Quit breaking news. Yeah, I'm trying. I also need to go. So we got to wrap up the show. Cole says, CHCO plus IND $2 super chat there. Pretzels with $2 probably had a comment in there as well. Appreciate it. Um, we will close up here. We did hit 30,000. Thank you so much for getting us over 30,000. Great job by you guys. Appreciate everybody watching, listening, hit that like button. I gotta go. Cause I gotta get downtown. See show bears coming up at one o'clock. Uh, apparently Bragg's is currently near Wolf Lake, um, and scouting potential. Are you going to give a live report from there? That's going to be outstanding. Well, he's, I don't, it'll probably be recorded cause he'll be in studio by the time we do the show, but he'll, you know, he's taking video. He's, he's doing the, he's doing the, the necessary, um, work that needs to be done right now in Northwest Indiana. So we'll have all that coming for you later. I'm going to bring a shovel. Yeah. Put a shovel in the ground. Let's, let's mark the occasion. Greg gets the first shovel in the ground. Uh, all right. Thanks for being here. See you over on CSGO bears at one o'clock. We'll talk to you then. See ya. you