Hour 1: Should LaMelo Ball Have Been Ejected?

Thrive-In believes money is more than numbers. It's a way to care for the people, causes, and community you love. That's why Thrive-In brings together a unique combination of financial services and generosity programs offering advice, investments, and insurance to help you plan your finances while creating opportunities to give back along the way. Through generosity programs that offer resources to fund service projects or direct charitable funds, Thrive-In makes it easier to turn your values into action and support what matters most to you. With more than 120 years of experience as a Fortune 500 company, Thrive-In continues to serve individuals, families, and communities across the country. To learn more, visit Thrive-In.com. Thrive-In, where money means more. Over time, thriller in Charlotte, and this one coming down to the wire, the Thrive-In hit star! Now the sun's down by two, three in for the lead. Hello everyone, good morning, and welcome to First Take. I'm Shay Cornette. Stephen A. Smith is with us, and Brian Wynne Horst will join us in a minute as well. Playing games happened last night. Stephen A., good morning to you. How are you this morning? Good morning, good morning, good morning. How you doing? How you doing just before anybody bothers me? I don't have my tie on the day because we all know I'm usually on my game, but the problem was I was rushing traveling and I forgot some pieces of my wardrobe, my tie being one of them. I'm sorry, apologize, but Shay, you're always holding it down, so we good. It's okay, we'll give you a pass this one day. Sometimes we forget things, we're flying all over the country. Listen, Wendy, we can't always see a button up as you. Despite staying up very late last night, I might add, let's go to the playing games. They did not lack drama last night, particularly in Charlotte, where the Hornets took the heat to overtime May 1, 1, 26, 1, 27 on a lamello ball game-winning layup, eliminating the heat from the playoffs. However, the heat were without Bam out of bio for the entire second half after Paul was seen grabbing his leg, essentially tripping him. Here was after the game, Coach Spoh speaking on it. I don't think it's cute, I don't think it's funny, I think it's a stupid play. It's a dangerous play. Obviously, our best player is out. I'm not making an excuse. The Hornets played great, and they made those plays down the stretch. We had our opportunities to win. That's a shame. You should be penalized for that. I don't think that belongs in the game. Tripping guys, shenanigans, and Curtis was there, it's his responsibility to see that. And if it's not his responsibility, then Zach's got to see it. If somebody has got to see that, he should have been thrown out of the game for that. Lamello, it kind of looked like on film that you might have grabbed his leg. I mean, did you intentionally grab his leg? I haven't even seen. Like I said, I got hit in the head, didn't even know where I was, but yeah, just playing basketball. But like I said, sorry, I'm going to check on him. I appreciate the apology. Lamello ball did finish with 30 points and ten assists. Again, Bam out of bio did leave with that back injury, and he never returned. And so, Wendy, when you look at that play, do you think Paul should have maybe been eliminated with that game, ejected? What did you think? He could have been ejected. There's a lot of dynamics at play in this particular situation. It's a fast break that starts the opposite way. Bam out of bio saves the ball from going out of bounds. And the ball goes the other direction. Sometimes officials are loath to call fouls there, because the other, the team gets upset that you stopped a fast break. But the point Eric Spolster makes is that the referee, Curtis Blair, is standing over top of the play. And so he elects not to make this call when he sees it happen. And once that happens, Shay, because this is what I'm hearing people would say, well, why wasn't it reviewed? Why wasn't it reviewed? But once the gameplay goes on, they're not in position to review it. It's not a matter once the gameplay goes on of that call. So that's important to realize. Let me say two things about this. Number one, the heat fans immediately went into their archives and found a situation of this last season, at the beginning of last season, where Lamello ball did a very similar play to Bam out of bio, where he felt like he had gotten fouled and basically tripped him. His band was coming up the floor. That's number one. Number two, and here's the play right here. This happened last year. So anyway, number two, the only play that I can think of, and I'm not trying to say, I'm the arbiter of all memory here. The only this play right there, the only play that I can think of that is similar to this comes from the playoffs two years ago. And that was, and this is going to make your blood boil, Steven A, because this is a moment from Nick's fans that they really, really rue when Joel and B sort of upended Mitchell Robinson in the playoff in that series. Now, this play hurt Mitchell Robinson's foot. He was never the same. That's beside the point for this discussion. The reason this is relevant was this play was called, they went to review, and they called this a flagrant one. Not only was it called the flagrant one, the same crew chief was in the game last night, Steven A, Zach Zarba. So while I can't predict what Zach Zarba would have done, like he went over to the screen, that was a flagrant one. So I know the heat fans this morning are screaming that he should have been ejected. And because Bam out of bio was injured on the play, that badly, they could have ejected him. Calling this a flagrant two would not have been egregious. And then you've got some people who are wondering if he's going to be suspended for Friday's game, which will be when the cornets can play to get the number eight seed. I do not think he will be suspended. However, I do expect the league to retroactively assess a flagrant, which I understand will not make the heat fans any happier. Same here. I get where you're coming from. Let's analyze it from this perspective. When you compare that to what Joel and B did to Mitch Robinson a couple of years back, the yanking of the leg was far more conspicuous, in my opinion, and flagrant than what we saw last night. Lamello ball is driving to the basket. He does get hit in the head. He falls to the ground. If Bam out of bio is on one leg off balance and falling back when Lamello ball definitely swiped his left leg. So there's no question that he did it. And there's no question that he easily could have been called for a flagrant or whatever. Me personally, I think that this should have been called, but I don't, I think an ejection, I don't think, I think an ejection, particularly considering the magnitude of the game, not knowing at the moment that Bam out of bio would be unable to return. I think that would have been a bit extreme. And I think the referees made the right decision in terms of not ejecting him. They could have called the flag and foul. They could have done that. They could have brought attention to it, no doubt. And it's really unfortunate that Bam out of bio ended up because like Tyler Hero said, post game, Bam is tough. Bam plays through pain all the time. For him to not come back into the game, you got to appreciate and recognize the severity of it because this is not a dude that misses action often. And this is not a dude that doesn't have a strong threshold for pain. So for him not to come back, it shows you how significant the injury was because this is Bam out of bio we're talking about. That is not normal. But the referees can possibly know that. And if you got a playoff birth on the line and you got a star like Lamello ball, even though it didn't look like one shooting two and 16 from three point range, but if you got a star like Lamello ball on a basketball court with a Bam out of bio and others, you certainly don't want to eject somebody in the second quarter and make that kind of decision because then some of us would have been complaining about how the officials interfered with the outcome of the game. That's the last thing you want as an official. So we got to take that into consideration. In the end, Lamello ball definitely was the wrong play to make. I don't think it warranted an injection because again, it wasn't nearly as extreme as Joel and beads yanking Mitchell Robinson's leg was. But nevertheless, it was a play. It doesn't have any place in the game. Eric Sposier's right to be pretty ticked off about it. A legitimate argument could be made that if Bam out of bio was on a court, they don't lose this game because we know what he brings to the table for the Miami Heat. All of those things are true. Nobody's wrong here and what they're suggesting. I'm simply making the point that if you are an official with a game of that magnitude, the second quarter, this is Lamello ball we're talking about to have ejected him from the game over that. I think that would have caused a big, big downstir. And I think that they made the right decision by not ejecting him. But in hindsight, looking at it, there definitely should be a punishment coming down the pike. And most importantly, even though that doesn't, you know, a swage or, you know, alleviate any disgust from the Miami Heat faithful, I think it's important for the league to send a message moving forward. That stuff is not going to be tolerated at all. And they're going to be a bit extreme in the punitive damage that they exercise if somebody tries to pull that nonsense again. He did apologize. Like, I think he knew afterwards the magnitude of it, obviously, because Bam never returned. And then he realized the out uproar of the situation. So he did apologize and say he was going to check on Bam. I don't know what happened beyond that. Go ahead. I don't, I will say this. I get it. And I'm not questioning the sincerity of Lamello ball. But if I'm the Miami Heat, you know what, that better be a phone call. Because if he had come into the locker room after the game, I'm pretty pissed at him. I'm just telling you, because we're going home. We're going home. Our season is over. You took out one of our best players, clearly our best defensive player. You took them out. I don't give a damn about your apology in that moment. We going home. And we don't believe we lost 127 to 126 in overtime. That's how we lost this game. And we didn't have this dude for the for the entire second half because of what you did. I'm pretty peeved. If I'm the Miami Heat and I don't give a damn about his apology at that particular, I'm going to check on you. We're going to doctor. We don't give a damn. We don't need you to check on us. I don't even want to talk to him. If I'm the Miami Heat fans, if I'm the Miami Heat players, at that particular moment, again, that's not knocking Lamello ball. I'm sure he's sincere. But in the end, he's playing and the Miami Heat are going home. And I can assure you, even though they're not going to admit it because they're first class, they're not going to admit it, but they firmly believe that Bam out of bio was on that court. They're moving on. They're not losing last night's game. Yeah. I don't think Lamello ball leads the league in mature acts. So just say that occasionally he doesn't show the greatest judgment across the board. And this was bad judgment. And he has shown this in the past. Secondly, I will say he you could have written a novella on Lamello ball in this game. He was 11 of 30. He was two of 16 on three. He committed a egregious foul moments before this that almost got us to steam the game. And then he hits the game winner on a play by the way, where he was fouled where it wasn't called. Jaime Haca slapped him right on the arm and he made an incredible shot in traffic to win this game. So this is actually one of the great moments of his career. And it is, you know, sort of appropriately considering the Lamello ball experience wrapped in this. The other thing I want to say is that Eric Spolstra made clear, in fact, he repeated it so that people like us would make sure that we would hear it. That this was not the reason they lost. He felt their defense, their defense, the whole down the stretch of the season was poor and their defense, you know, he just said, if we can get one stop two or three different times, we win. So while the heat fans are angry and I get it, Eric Spolstra and while Eric Spolstra was obviously very clear, controlled anger, I would say, I don't think that Eric Spolstra was saying this was why they lost the game. No, I don't either. He made that very clear. They had opportunities to win. They had good looks. He made that very clear. To put that away. Understood. But if Bam was there, obviously we all think the result maybe would have been different, not saying they would have won, but maybe the result would have been different. So now let's focus on the Hornets. Well, the Bambas day, you get definitely get a stop. You get a stop. You like the Bambas day, you might get a stop. The Hornets will now face the loser of the Sixers Magic matchup that will happen on Friday for the eighth and final spot in the east. So which is a better matchup for Charlotte going forward? Is it the Sixers or is it the Magic? Personally, I think it's the Magic because of their lack of experience. Stephen A, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead, Wendy. Go ahead, Wendy. Go ahead, Wendy. I think we're in agreement here. I think I think you'd rather see the Magic if you were the Hornets. Specifically, frankly, I mean, no offense to the Magic, but I don't think Orlando has historically been shown to be an incredibly difficult place to play going into Philadelphia against an experienced team in that environment. It's going to be a tall task to ask, you know, to ask the Hornets. And a big factor in this game, and I think we'll talk about this later, is that Conn Canipple, who was a driving, driving force in them even getting to the play-in, he has entered a slump, which is not stunning. He is a rookie dealing with the biggest games that he's played in, and they pulled him. Charles Lee, the young head coach of the Hornets, kind of what the guts he called, basically, it's like he can't get this done. He pulled them in the fourth quarter and didn't play him in overtime. And, you know, partially, I think the reason he pulled them was because he wasn't even looking for his shot in the second half. So if you're asking me, who would you rather play? I need Conn Canipple to be Conn Canipple. I need him to be the guy he was for the entire season. And so I think whoever that is, I need it. And I think the environment in Philly is asking a lot. So maybe Conn will bounce back and have a huge game on Friday, but it was a little bit concerning the way his first and understandable, but a little concerning the way his first of showing in the postseason is gone. It was definitely concerning, Wendy. I got to tell you this, though. I got to give all the credit in the world to Coach Charles Lee because, I mean, it's hard to put, I mean, a prolific three-point shooter for you all season long, albeit a rookie. And Conn Canipple, who by the way, I think it was Draymond who said it, I'm not sure, I don't recall, but he does in terms of his shooting, his stroke, he looks a lot like Clay Thompson. Make no mistake about it. That's what I came watching him. I mean, just a quick release and everything, he looks a lot like Clay Thompson. All right. And I will say this to you, he definitely had a bad night, but for the coach to pull him, to not play him in overtime at all, to not play him a significant minutes in the fourth quarter, I thought that was a huge, that was a huge gamble. And it definitely paid off. Kobe White, the energizer bunny that he is, one of those dudes that just feeds off adrenaline to go to, remember, he went to school at North Carolina to be playing in Charlotte, to have that crowd there, and he fed off of it. I mean, you could see how he galvanized the team. And there's a lot to be said about that, that can't be ignored. I want to take a moment to give some love to Miles Bridges. This brother can play. He's a big body. Absolutely. You know, he don't look like the tallest dude in the world. He's like a legit six, seven, but he's a wide body, strong. He's big, but he can stroke it. He can shoot it. He can put it on the floor. He can post you up. He can back you down. I had a beautiful switch over a reverse layup. I mean, it was hitting about five threes. I can't say enough about the performance that he put forth. Miles Bridges showed up. We got to give him some love because let me tell you something. Just the way, the way that they play, all right, they don't have a lot of girth on their sides, on their side per se. He does, but doesn't have the necessary height. But these brothers can shoot. They're in constant attack mode. They push the ball up the court all night long. And Charlotte is a very, very interesting team to watch because they can beat themselves, but they can also beat you. If you're not ready and you're not making shots, Charlotte would take you up out of here. They got that kind of talent. I like what I saw from them last night. Yeah, they could have lost to Miami and give Miami credit. Tyler Hero, he went to the line, needed three free throws. I knew he wasn't going to miss any of them. The brothers, 91% free throw line, I think throughout the season. I mean, the brother can, he's going to make some free throws now. And Davion Mitchell loved this kid. Bright futures improved this three point shot. Miami's got some pieces, okay? But Charlotte is very entertaining, very interesting and potent offensively. They can hurt you if you're not ready to play against them. And it's led by that cat, Miles Bridges. LaMelo Ball, yes, Concanipal, yes. But Miles Bridges, we got to give him some love. Brother can play. He can play. The Kobe White of it all had me in my tears last night as a Bulls fan. I can't believe we traded him, but when he can shoot it lights out like that. Roodle situation for the Bulls. Oh my gosh. Far for the course, so it feels like it would be. Let's be honest. Very bad. Very bad. Let's go to the West now. The Suns and Blazers squared off in the West last night and then his first postseason, Denny Avedita really looked like a star for Portland, scoring 41 points and helping them bounce back from a double digit deficit in the fourth quarter. The Trail Blazers won by four and find themselves back in the playoffs for the first time in five years. They clinched the seven seed and they will need Avedita to have a similar performance if they want to continue to advance. The 41 points that he dropped was the third most points in a playing game trailing Jason Tatum in 2021 and Kobe White as we just brought up in 2024 with the Bulls. Avedita is the first player with 40 points in ten assists in a playing game ever. Congratulations. Now you get to play the Spurs. Can the Blazers and Avedita challenge Wendy and the Spurs in a way like they did last night for the Phoenix Suns? Wendy, what do you think? Yeah, this is going to be a bit of a coming out party for Denny. He's been an all-star. He's going to get serious consideration for the all-NBA team this year. He has a chance he could make it. He's played on bad teams his whole career, first in Washington and then in Portland. He's really become a star and the way he plays was totally on display in this game. He is an absolute raging bull. He puts his shoulder down, initiates contact every single time, beats you up and generates shots for himself and his teammates. He also had, I think, 13 assists in this game in addition to the points. He was 15-22. Talk about efficient and, you know, when they needed two baskets at the end of the game, I mean, this was a 17-5 run to finish the game by Portland. This is a team that, you know, 10 days ago was, you know, not even in the 9-10 game. They win their way into the 7-8 game and then they win their way in Phoenix to this with him just being an absolute force going to the basket. Now, the Wemby situation is going to be fascinating, Stephen A, because so much of this postseason is really about is this Wemby's time as we're going to watch and we're going to see whether or not this is a moment where Victor Webinyama has this breakthrough moment. And his first test will be to deal with Denny Avila coming down the lane time after time after time because he will challenge him. Now, Victor has something that the sons did not last night. The sons did not have a rim protector. They did not have a rim protector in the game at the end of the game, which is why Denny saw that, absolutely took advantage of it, and punished the sons for playing small. And obviously the Spurs will not be playing small. They'll be playing very big. So, look, Victor has many battles to try to cross shape in this postseason. We were excited about a number of them. First up is Denny and that, and even though they won't guard each other, you know, straight up, I promise you they will be meeting each other at the rim many times over the next two weeks. Definitely. Stephen A, go ahead. Here's what we need to watch out for when we're thinking about Portland. I mean, I like him a lot. The brother is really, I mean, thank God, it's amazing what happens when you get out of Washington. Isn't it, isn't it, Wendy? You get out of the nation's capital and all of a sudden you're florist. I mean, who would have thunk it? I mean, that's what happened. Okay, so he's in Portland right now. He's doing his thing. Let's remember Scoot Henderson. Let's remember Shaden Sharp giving you 20 points tonight. Let's remember Donovan Klingon. Remember, this guy third in the NBA 11.6 rebounds per game. Seventh overall pick in 2024. Let's remember that they've got an experience with Drew Holiday and Jeremy Grant. These brothers, I mean, Portland's tough. They're not scared. They don't mind physicality. In fact, they invite it. And so to me, what I'm thinking about, and also, Wendy, I'm surprised you didn't mention this. The Spurs won two or three against them this year. Wendy didn't play in any of those games. They haven't played them. And so I'm looking at it from that standpoint. All right. You're educating me. I don't think that's, listen, I looked it up. I don't think he played them this year. Okay. I could be wrong, but I know he's missed at least two games. I think it's all three against Portland this year. So I'm looking at it. I'm like, okay, Wendy, seven, five, wait for you at the back at the basket. Obviously, I mean, he's going to drive to the basket. He's going to create content. He's going to try to make things happen. But definitely he ain't seven feet five. Okay. And we all know that. So it's going to be interesting. You know how I often said when we're talking about women, Yama, this year, are you, it wants to playoffs begin. Let's remind everybody it slows a bit. There's more have court offense. All right. More have court defense, not to mention the fact that physicality sometimes is allowed, maybe not consistently, but best believe far more often than not, the referees are going to let you play. If they're going to let you play and Portland is able to incorporate some level of physicality against women, Yama, who the hell knows what's going to happen. That's what I'm saying because the one thing that we still have to question about women Yama is that he is still relatively thin. We know this. So when they're getting physical with you, are you going to be able to, to, to withstand all of that, particularly if the referees allow it? Now they may not because he's a superstar in this league and you want to protect the asset. We understand that. So it's not going to be consistent, but there are going to be games where they're going to let you play and they're not going to call it as tightly as they would some other games. How is women Yama going to respond to that challenge? I have no questions about the De'Aren Fox, the Stefan Castles of the world and others. They'll do what they do, but as it pertains to women Yama, it's going to be real interesting to see what's going to transpire because the Portland Trailblazers are built in a fashion where they don't mind being in attack mode. They don't mind coming at you. They don't mind challenging you with their physicality because they believe that they have the physicality to match up against anybody in the NBA. That's something they stand on. That's going to make this San Antonio Spurs series interesting seeing how Wimby is able to deal with that. San Antonio still gets the edge, but I'm impressed with what I've seen from Portland, a bunch of young Thurrow breads that don't mind getting after it and don't mind getting in your face banging with you and showing you they are not about to be pumped. They're coming. It's going to be real interesting to see how they deal with San Antonio and vice versa in this series. There's also the Tiago Splitter of it all. He's the interim coach for the Trailblazers. Want to chip obviously with the Spurs as well. They're familiar to there. Also, Stephen A, you were right. Wimby has not played Portland since December of 2024. Coming up here on first takes. Stephen A says the stakes are higher than ever for the Knicks in the first round against the Hawks. Does Wendy agree? Wendy, Wimby, a lot of Wendy's going on here. LeBron vs. Kevin Durant will be musty playoff basketball. We reveal the recipe for the Lakers to pull off the upset against Houston. Nexus first take rolls along. As you know, managing maintenance repair and operations is never easy, but for the ones who always rise to the challenge, Granger has your back. From professional grade products, you can count on to fast, dependable delivery. They're there to help you keep things running smoothly. Plus, their technical product specialists are here to help answer your toughest questions. And because Granger knows safety is always a priority, they're committed to being your partner in protecting both your people and your facilities. Call 1-800-GRANGER, click Granger.com or just stop by. The Toyota Tundra and Tacoma are built to keep going. Blending rugged muscle with precision engineering all supported by Toyota's time-tested legacy of dependability. Step into a Tundra and feel the unyielding capability with the available iForce Max engine. Tundra puts out impressive power, torque and towing performance. The roomy high-tech cabin keeps you connected on the go. Or take a look at the Tacoma, made for drivers who push past the path. Agile, tough and relentless with available features like crawl control, a portable JBL speaker and a power lift gate. So gear goes in fast and the adventure keeps moving. The Tacoma and Tundra are engineered to endure season after season, mile after mile. So drive one home today, visit Toyota.com or stop by your local Toyota dealer to find out more. Toyota, let's go places. First Take is brought to you by DQ. Happy taste good. Welcome back to First Take. The Hawks and Knicks will battle in the opening round of the playoff starting on Saturday. The Knicks did take the regular season advantage two to one in the three game sample size. But two of those games were played before Trey Young was traded. In the last game, these two teams played just a few weeks ago, went to overtime. Here's Stephen A yesterday and what could happen if the Knicks get bounced early. Mike Brown is going as the head coach. Carl Anthony Towns, likely McKell Bridges and who knows who the hell else is going as New York Knickers. New York Knickerbockers. That's the bottom line. You understand? It's just that simple. If you lose in the first round, if you lose in the first round to the Atlanta Hawks, I think heads are going to roll. Oh yeah, heads are definitely going to roll. Look, Tives was fired last year. Mike Brown was brought in with the expectation that the Knicks are going to go to the finals. If they fall short and they lose in the first round of the playoffs, what will the repercussions be? Wendy, you heard what Stephen A had to say. What do you think? I have an inconvenient truth. It's not just the first round. I think if they lose in the second round, even if that's against the favored Celtics, I think there's going to be massive repercussions. I'm not going to predict which individual people might get fired or get traded, but forget. I mean, the Hawks will be a formidable first round opponent. What I have been saying for the last few days is they're not really a six seed. They're a six seed because their record over the first two months of the season dragged them down. Over the last two, three months of the season, they really played more like a top four seed. This little maneuvering on the last day of the season where Orlando blew that game in Boston and that enabled the Raptors to move up to number five. That was bad news for the Knicks. The Raptors got dominated by the Knicks all year long. In my view, the Knicks have the hardest draw in the Eastern Conference. The Hawks who are not a six seed, then potentially obviously Boston, then potentially Detroit or Cleveland, that is as hard of a stretch as they could go. They go into it with the understanding that if they don't get to the Conference Finals and quite frankly, Jim Dolan is on the record saying he believes the team should be in the Finals, there will absolutely be repercussions. Forget about the Hawks and what happens there. Even if that would be an upset, Stephen A., that would be a significant upset, but it wouldn't drop me to the floor if the Hawks found a way to get four wins. I've seen crazier first round upsets than that. This is a closer series than three versus six, but forget about that. The bigger concern if you're worried about staying in New York, if you're everybody wearing a Nick Jersey right now, is what happens if you can't beat the Celtics, who you beat three times in the regular season, you beat last year in the playoffs. Your ownership was like, I ain't talking about Yonatan A. Kupo because I believe in this team. If that series is where they go out, Shay, there's still going to be massive, massive fallout. Thanks. I get where you're coming from. Here's what I would say. From a player perspective, no argument there because James Dolan believes that they should get there good enough to get to the Finals, blah, blah, blah. But he said this before Jason Tatum returned. Okay. And I think that that's important. And I think he said that quote, if I remember correctly, Wendy, he said it before James Harden was acquired by Cleveland. So the combination of those two things, I think play a factor, right? Because he said it before those, you know, those things occurred. James Harden being acquired by Cleveland, Jason Tatum returning from the Achilles injury much, much sooner than anticipated. I think that gives him cause to pause when he's looking at this team, if you're going up against one of those guys. Okay. Not to say that you can't beat Cleveland, particularly how they struggle defensively, but it's a tough, it's a tough call. And if you lose to the Boston Celtics, there's no shame in that. Okay. If you lose to the Atlanta Hawks, I mean, are you kidding me? When nobody thinking about them, I don't give a damn how good they've been. The latter part of the season, you're not anticipating that a New York Knicks team built to contend for a championship is going home in the first round to Jalen Johnson or Dyson Daniels or CJ McCullum. I was like, you ain't trying to hear that. You're just not trying to hear that. That happens. Heads going rolled in my estimation. Here's where it gets interesting. Shae, Wendy, and we have to pay attention to this. A lot of speculation. When Tom Thibodeau was let go, was it James Dolan, who forced Leon Rose to make that call? Or was it Leon Rose who said, I think it's time for a change? If it was Leon Rose, Mike Brown, in my opinion, is gone. If the New York Knicks losing the first round to the Atlanta Hawks, he stays if it was Dolan's call, because Dolan is the one that forced the change from Tom Thibodeau. We know Tom Thibodeau can grate on you. We know he can wear on you. We know players, coaches, and everybody in between have employed him over the years. Get a life, because all he did was eat, live, and breathe basketball. That's it. But the point is the grit and the grind that the New York Knicks had at their disposal the previous two or three years was something to admire. Everybody that went up against the Knicks knew they were going to be in a dog fight night in and night out, because there was a little extra oomph that came from the New York Knicks that quite frankly, we've questioned whether or not it has existed this year watching them. And this is a Knicks team that was top six offensively and defensively in terms of efficiency. And we still looked at them and said something's missing in terms of their toughness, their grit, etc., etc. Yes, they have more of a bench. Yes, Mike Brown was brought there. You weren't anticipating he was going to be tipped. He was going to bring more offensively, though. And his personable skills were something that was supposed to work to sort of assuage the concerns or get along, play relations, all of this other stuff. But Tom Thibodeau, that grit, that grind, that fight that you saw from the New York Knicks, as a New York Knicks fan, let me be very clear, we grew to expect it. That's an expectation we have. And when it's missing, we notice. And we've noticed it's been missing this year. Again, you lose to Boston, Jason Tatum, Jaylen Brown, the champions, living in the conference finals. We get that part. You lose to Cleveland with Harden and Donovan Mitchell. Not great. Mobley, Allen, not great in terms of losing to them. Wouldn't be great, but somewhat understandable. Even Detroit, after the grits that you had to put forth in order to beat them in the first round last year, we get that too. The Atlanta Hawks. And this is not to be disrespectful to them. It's just that you ain't been there. You ain't been a part of the mix since you went to the conference finals a few years back in 2021. We're looking at the Atlanta Hawks. You didn't expect them to be somebody that was in the Knicks way. If they send the Knicks home in the first round, change is coming. And I think it's going to be with the coach and several players. So Mike Brown has not won a playoff series since 2012. You brought out 2021 when the Hawks were in the conference finals. That is when they most recently beat the Knicks. It was 4-1 in the first round of the playoffs. But now we look to the East and to the Celtics, because I think despite the pistons being the one seed in the East, it does feel like the Celtics are the biggest threat in that conference. Which team is the biggest threat now to the Celtics in the East? Is it the Knicks or someone else? Wendy? I think I'm very cognizant of not giving the Detroit pistons enough attention for their magnificent season, including how beautifully they played after Kate Cunningham got hurt. And I recognize, Stephen A., that we at ESPN may be in Detroit for days on end for the conference finals where they would have home court advantage. So I'm a little bit wary about continuing to disregard them. However, I'm going to disregard them in this instance yet again, because I think that the Knicks are the team that the Celtics have to contend with most seriously. And that is simply because the Knicks have been constructed with the exact purpose of beating the Celtics. When the Knicks made their most crucial decisions about putting this roster together, it was in the wake of the Celtics winning the championship. That is why they invested so heavily in the Cale Bridges. That is why they invested so heavily in OG Ananobe in terms of what they paid him. Those players were brought in specifically to deal with Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown. And they have had success. They've had success, obviously in the playoffs last year and this year. I know they didn't play them together this year, but they still went three and one. So the one thing you're looking at if you're a Knicks fan or in the Knicks organization is our team is primed to beat the best team in the East. And they're going to try to give them another chance, I think. Here's the thing. The answer to this question is the Knicks, right? But it's for two reasons. Number one, they beat them last year. And number two, that's who they'd have to face first if they were to get to the conference finals. You don't get to the conference finals without going through Boston. You see what I'm saying? See, I think the Knicks have a better chance of beating the Celtics and the Detroit Pistons have a better chance of beating the Knicks. That's how I view it. I think the kryptonite for the New York Knicks can beat the Detroit Pistons because I can't get over Bernie Bickerstaff, I'm sorry, Bernie Bickerstaff. I'm the man in the sun, obviously, BJ. But Bernie Bickerstaff is always good to hear from you, my brother. Always good to hear from the man. But let me say this about BJ Bickerstaff, JB Bickerstaff. This is the thing. The man came on the set on ESPN last year after they lost to the New York Knicks, told us, we're going to kick y'all ass. We tired of y'all. We ain't having this again. And every time they met the New York Knicks, since he said that, they have kicked their ass. I mean, it's not playing. And you see that there's a little something extra that comes from Detroit when they go on to get to New York. I watched them several times this year against everybody else. They look a little different when it's against the New York Knicks. They don't like them. They want them. You understand? And I haven't seen the Knicks respond to that challenge. When somebody is coming to kick your ass, you're supposed to respond. The Knicks have not. They have not. And so Detroit just has a little something extra. Boston just seems to me to methodically go about the business of being the Boston Celtics. Last year was an aberration. We won't let that happen again this year. We'll get them this year. That's Boston. Detroit is like one of those teams that gives you the impression that they could be en route to a championship. And if the New York Knicks gets bounced out, they're going to be pissed off because we want them. We want them bad. We want the Knicks. You know, they want them. And that is why I look at the Detroit as being the biggest Achilles heel to the New York Knicks. Whereas with the Celtics, it's the Knicks that's in their way because the Knicks already beat them before and because of the methodical approach that the Boston Celtics have. They'll beat anybody that you put in front of them. They're like the Knicks are just the latest victim. Detroit wants the Knicks. Boston don't care who it is. We're just going to beat them because we're better than you. That's Boston's mentality, which is why I think it's a difference. Both of your points with the Pistons situation, Wendy, I do feel like people may be pushing them aside because of the situation with Cade Cunningham. And Stephen A., you feel like they're the biggest threat to the Knicks if Cade Cunningham is healthy. Wendy, really quick, do you know an update on Cade? Is he going to be fully ready to go for the first series of the playoff? Yeah, he's ready to go now. He's playing. He's ready to go. I think the challenge with them is what happens if Cade isn't great in the game. There are options after that are a little more limited. Okay. Good to know. All right. Coming up here on first day. I say this to you, Shay. Yeah. I want to say this real quick. I believe that Boston could beat the Knicks. They should be favored over the Knicks. Okay. I truly believe that. But when it comes to Cade Cunningham and them, I don't know if the Knicks are ready for that. They have to show me that. I mean, again, Detroit wants them badly. I mean, badly. They're rooting for the Knicks to get through everybody else just so they can get them. It's that kind of volatility. And I need the Knicks to respond to that. I don't haven't seen it yet. Haven't seen it. You know who else wanted to face the Knicks in the first round? The Atlanta Hawks. So let's see how they respond to that match up first. And then we'll move along with Detroit. Coming up here on first take. Will it take a vintage performance from LeBron for the Lakers to take down Katie and the Rockets? We'll tell you next, plus should the Clippers be on upset alert against the Warriors and would have lost Stain Kauai Leonard's incredible season so far? Also, WWE superstar Liv Morgan is going to join the show. It is WrestleMania week. That's next. The ESPN app is home to WrestleMania 42 in every WWE premium live event. If you want to be there for the biggest moments, you'll need the ESPN unlimited plan to sign up. Go to the link below. Or if you have ESPN from one of these providers, ESPN unlimited is included at no additional cost. Just head to activate.espn.com and follow the steps to get set up. Then sign into the ESPN app and you're in. WrestleMania and the biggest WWE premium live events all in one place anytime anywhere. This message is brought to you by Apple Pay. Checking out our exclusive online Apple Pay makes it simple. Apple Pay is accepted on millions of websites and apps and counting. Just look for the Apple Pay button almost anywhere you do your online shopping. When you tap the Apple Pay button to check out, you don't have to worry about filling out any forms with your shipping address or your payment method. Instead, use your pre saved information and check out in seconds. Need to make a change? You can easily review and change your card information and shipping details right on the payment sheet. Once you're ready, just double click the side button, authenticate your purchase with face ID and you're done. Whether you're shopping online for everyday needs or treating yourself, skip the hassle. Shop with Apple Pay. Terms do apply. Quick time out. Some breakfast intel you want to know about. Kodiak frozen power waffles and flapjacks are built for busy mornings. Heat it, eat it and you're out the door. No long prep, no complicated game plan. They're packed with 12 to 14 grams of protein per serving a good source of fiber and crafted with 100% whole grains, not refined white flour. So you're getting something that actually fuels you and there's depth on the roster. Buttermilk and vanilla, blueberry, chocolate chip, even gluten free options. Breakfast that delivers, snack that delivers, find Kodiak frozen waffles and flapjacks in the frozen aisle at your local grocery store. They're the ones with the bear on the box. As you know, managing maintenance, repair and operations is never easy. But for the ones who always rise to the challenge, Granger has your back. From professional grade products you can count on to fast dependable delivery. They're there to help you keep things running smoothly. Plus their technical product specialists are here to help answer your toughest questions. And because Granger knows safety is always a priority, they're committed to being your partner and protecting both your people and your facilities. Call 1-800-GRANGER, click Granger.com or just stop by. WrestleMania, the grandest stage of them all. WrestleMania week is here and we are lucky to be joined now by WWE superstar Liv Morgan. Thank you, Liv, for being with us. She's already in Vegas and she's ready to go and we need to address what is happening on her face because your WrestleMania opponent, Stephanie Vacker, has made it a habit to attack you recently, including an incident last week on Raw that laughed you, obviously, with this nasty welt on your forehead. Look at that. She just told me it's like dripping down to her eyes. Now, people accuse wrestling of being fake sometimes, but how real does this feel? How are you doing? Like, how are you doing? I'm doing so much better than I'm looking. Thank you for asking. I think that people that accuse wrestling of being fake are ill-informed. You cannot fake this bruising. You cannot fake this swelling, but I'm doing well. And Stephanie Vacker is so lucky that I'm still pretty. Truly, you still look so pretty, but oh my gosh, go ahead, Steven. So what are you going to do to her? How are you going to avenge this sneak attack? That's what I'm interested in, or live. Can you tell us that? Yeah, I'm going to beat her at WrestleMania. I'm going to win the women's world champion and become the three-time greatest women's world champion of all time. That's what I'm going to do. No, no, no, no, no, no. I know how the fellas can be. I know how the fellas can be, but as a guy that was raised by five women, I also know a thing or two about how women can be. It's one thing to win. You're going to win at WrestleMania, but that is not what I am asking you, Liv. When I'm asking you, I know you're going to win. I know that's what you're aiming to do. I'm asking other than beat her. I mean, I'm asking, what do you intend to do to her? There's a difference. You are going to have to watch me at WrestleMania to find out just like everyone else. Okay, well, we will do this. This will be your eighth. I tried. I tried. This will be your eighth WrestleMania match. So you've done this a few times, Liv. What's it going to take for this one to be your fave? Is it taking down Stephanie? Honestly, I feel like this is 11 years in the making for me. I know I've earned this opportunity. So this is my favorite already. My whole entire family will be in attendance, but winning, winning will cement this as the greatest WrestleMania of all time for me personally, at least. Could you speak a second to how the sport has evolved? You know, what the sport was like years ago compared to what it is right now and what it means to you? Can you speak on that for a second? Yeah, for sure. I think WWE has evolved and progressed tremendously over the last 10 years or so, especially the last five. I think that's a big testament to Triple H and Nikon. WWE is on such a amazing hot streak right now. We are streaming live on Netflix. We have our biggest PLEs on ESPN. And so I think we are just on an amazing upward trajectory. And for me personally, I started WWE in the midst of the women's revolution. And so I first hand got to see the difference of the women's participation in WWE in the last five or so years. And that went from two-minute matches to main eventing WrestleMania. And so I am so honored to be a part of a company that you know, progresses and takes notice of what the people watch and what they like, which is women in WWE. You know what I'm taking notice of your kicks? Well-known, huge sneaker had you wore Jordans during that huge Royal Rumble win. Do you know what's going to be on your feet this coming weekend for WrestleMania? Yeah, I'm going to wear my A6. I'm going to wear my A6, my amateur wrestling shoes. I'm going to be comfortable. My outfit is obviously going to be amazing, but my shoes, I'm going to be comfortable. I got to be ready to kick some butt really. So I'm not going to do anything fancy. I'm going to stick to the basics, stick to what I know works. And those are my little A6. Maybe they got a little bling on them or something. Something tells me. Yeah, maybe I'll do something to spark on them. We'll see. Exactly. Liv Morgan, thank you so much for the time. We look forward to watching you this weekend at WrestleMania. Thank you guys. Have a good day. Coming up on Thursday, could Katie leave the Rockets on a deep playoff? Ronald LeBron and the Lakers present a problem for Houston. We'll tell you next. Plus, will Steph Curry go off tonight against the Clippers and what would a loss to the short-handed warriors mean for Kawhi Leonard and the Clips? More first take after this. What's going on, y'all? I am WWE superstar Kofi Kingston, aka one half of the new day and you are watching ESPN. Now don't forget to check out WrestleMania this weekend only on the ESPN app, baby. And now you can check if you already have ESPN unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.espn.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN, all in one place. Sign up or activate now.