Shauna McCann: Donor Dilemmas, Invisible Labor, and Kid's Vintage

The following podcast is a dear media production. I tried to tell him I'm in Perry menopause and he's like, it's been five years. And I'm like, well, I think it lasts a while. I think it is five years. No, it could be anywhere. Like it could be a decade. It could be a decade. It could be longer than a decade. Oh my god, lesbian relationships, you both go through it. Interesante. Welcome to the Good Enough podcast. Make sure to send your... Wait, what is... I want to make fun of the fact that you picked P-cast. I want to make fun of the fact that you hate that I love to use AI, but you sounded like AI at the top. I'm a professional voiceover artist. I'm a professional voiceover too. What is P-cast? Why is it P-cast? Oh my gosh, our guest is talking and we haven't introduced them. Should we introduce our guest? Yes, we have a very special guest, like red carpet special. Red hot by a red like... The woman who married the woman. The woman who married the woman. Put your hands and your toes and potentially your butts together for my sweet wife, Shauna McCann. Shauna, not only is she your sweet wife... The woman who married the woman. Is she the woman? Not only is Shauna your sweet wife, she's my sweet talented stylist. That's right. She's your sweet talent. She's my sweet talented stylist too. She actually sourced this shirt if you're watching on YouTube from a vintage shop in Sicily. I'll hold for a plus. And I don't want to make you responsible for every outfit I've ever worn, but you do help. The good ones, I would say. You do help. You help. You've got that eye. I just don't have it. I have great style. You don't have it. It's not that I don't have great style, but it's like... You don't like shopping. I hate shopping. But I also don't know when is too much, how to do the bow, with silver, gold, six necklaces, zero. Like that whole thing, you have that, I love this in people. Like it's like, nope, too much. Like you just look at it in one second, you know. Yeah. You know what about, you have that with jokes, Sabrina. They come out of your head, well already formed. That's right. Well, I checked this one out. Natasha, you have that too. I think that that's like... I don't know, I don't have it. Thanks a lot. No, you do have it. I don't have it. I have it in different ways. We all have something good, and Shauna's is visual. And actually, just this morning, we were talking about Shauna is, if I could introduce Eras by sort of pimping you to talk about this one aspect of your era. You love when you pimped me? Yeah. My wife is available for $35 per second, just to look at you on Zoom. Okay. Wait, that's a cool idea. It is. My wife is available for pimping your wife? No, but I mean... Wait a second. No, you want, so here's the new idea. You pay someone, I don't know how much you pay them. $35 per second. $100 an hour. Okay. Takes two hours. Yeah. No, they need more than that. I don't know what the price is. What's the idea, first of all? The idea is the idea. What they come to your house, I know this already exists, but I want to put it out there, they come to your house and redo all your clothes in a cute way that makes it look fresh again. But Natasha, didn't she do that? I did that for you. She did that to me. Yeah. I love it. Okay, great. So my wife is available for that, but she's actually not. No, no, no, she's solid stepping. She's also dabbling post-having our babies. I think she's doing, she's in an era that a lot of mothers experience, which is like you take a step back from your career, and when you are stepping back into the market, you're like, you know what, I'm longing for an added direction. And so she has started to do floral design. She's very talented at it. The visual aspect of anything. Shauna is like HGTV Rain Man. She closed her eyes. She designs a room. She designs, she just in her gut knows what will visually look good. Wait, can I just say one more thing about Shauna that she really helped me with when she came over to my closet? Yes. Because I have all these old dresses that don't really fit me anymore. But like, she'll pull something out and she's like, oh, what's up with, who is she? And I'm like, it'll have like a little yellow like elementary school bow. And it's like, yeah, I'm fucking 50. Like why am I wearing like buttons with birds on it? And like bows. I just didn't see that. I didn't see that I outgrew that, you know? And like, you really helped me like see, because it's like your fashion is evolving. And with the times, with your age, with your needs, with your, anyway. But I love that you specifically want to keep some of those cutie vintage dresses. No, for your daughter. I love that. Pigtails. I literally started a rack that is for the boys that is shit that I hope they'll wear. Of your clothes? Yeah. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. All right. Well, I like that. My daughter just inspired by you. She's going to want to do with my clothes. Cut them. That's okay. She already wants to cut them. Great. That's okay. I'll give her something. She's like, can I cut this? Great. Crop tops are in. Oh my God. That's her dream in life is to one day wear a crop top. And I told her she could wear it at camp. She could, yeah. But she's just like, she knows, she's like the crop top police at her school. Like she knows every single person who has a crop top, who has worn a crop top and didn't get in trouble for it, who has worn a tube top and nobody said anything. This is real? Tube top. Yes. Because I don't know what it is like. And like Moshe has told her, it's so funny. He's, he's told her and I think he was half kidding, but he really wasn't. He's like, style is really important in our family. And so he's like, we don't shop at Target. And I'm like, yeah, we do. She's eight. She can wear Target. And he's like, so yesterday we went on this like vintage shop crawl, trying to find her clothes. Of course we found like one sweatshirt going to three different places. Where did you go? We went to this cute place in Highland Park called Grow, Kid, Grow. And then we went to Reckless. You literally five seconds to rise. I did, I texted you and said I'm at, what was that? Kitchen mess. You were at kitchen mess. Oh shit. I was at a birthday party then we were at the beach. Anyway, no big deal. But I pick my battles. If she wants to wear tight tank tops and bell bottom yoga pants from Target, letter. For sure. She is eight years old. And she's finding her style. It's still stylish. It's just she's got, she's got her own ideas. She really likes to dance in the wind. Like she has a lot of movement. And I feel like her clothes need to let her do that. Exactly. What a cool thing that you would even notice. I literally like if I close my eyes, I could not tell you what anyone here is wearing. I'm dense here. I close my eyes. I absolutely forget. That is so sad. What? No, it's not sad. It's cute. You're like, you're like Shaman's puppet. I may as well be Helen Keller when it comes to just noticing anything. That's funny because you are, you always look so stylish, but it's because of your wife. That's right. You should have seen me before I met her. Wow. It was not great. Did you wear like flower dresses or you were just like. I was leaning on bandana, sort of like a runaway train hopper. I was going runaway train hopper. She had some hats and some bandanas. You could work a bandana though, I feel like. I always had the desire to have like a flashy thing. Like I remember when I was little, I really liked this vest that was velvet and had a lot of tiny mirrors on it. I was like, this is me. You like flair. You like a little. I like a little flair. So does my daughter, but she also wants to be comfortable underneath. Yeah. And Mosha really wants her to wear like oversized hip, like patchwork, like how he dresses. And she does it. She wants her, she wants body conscious. Yeah. And that's new because she also went through a phase or no, right? I don't know. I mean, they're so young. I'm like, let's just go to Costco. Not Costco, but. I think having a rack for your kid though of like old pieces of your own and when you go to vintage stores thinking about like what your kid will wear down the line is a smart thing. Yeah. I mean, I also like have a stash like when I sell my clothes, I have at crossroads like 800 bucks ready for Wolfie and Rowan whenever they're like teenage. The gift card that they get. Wants to yeah, they like hold the money for you and it's forever available. You think when they're teenagers that jet rags still going to be in or what's it called? Crossroads. Crossroads is talking about the Crossroads. I think it, I mean, it's been around for ages. Do you shop for the kids at Crossroads? Sometimes I, I, my eyes are always open. I know. Like it's not. You find cute stuff at Ross. There's no, yeah, for sure. Like you also talk about what to wear when you're pregnant because you wear such great stuff and there might be someone listening that's like, oh, what am I supposed to wear? Honestly, I think that was my hottest era. Era, era. I know I'm joking. Just to speak into the microphone. I loved dressing when I do. That was your hottest era? I think so. I felt so confident and like in, in, in my naked form. Like I loved to have my belly out. Actually, actually that's so funny you said that because my daughter was just saying, because she's obsessed with crop tops. She was just saying mom when Shauna was pregnant, she wore crop tops. No way. Yeah. She remembered. She like clocked that. That's so cute. I never did that. Yeah. I didn't ever like think what am I going to look like when I'm pregnant before I was pregnant, but it was really fun. And then chef pants. Yeah. I found a pair of chef pants when I was early pregnant and I still wear to this day. They are vintage, beautiful. They don't make them in the same fabric or color anymore. They're just black and white stripes, but I loved them and they, they live with all of my bodies. So if you're listening and you're pregnant, start with some, some chef pants. Chef man is the brand. Well, there's specifically, yeah, a brand that like got hit. But there's so many. Are they white? They're different. No, no, all different patterns, all different patterns. And then crop top, crop top, chef pants. You're welcome. And when we say crop top, you can take a big t-shirt, right? And then just cut it. So it's like crop wide. It's not like, you know, the, the aloe. But also like rules are so stupid. I don't, I don't believe in trends or rules. What's your fashion philosophy that I don't believe in trends or rules? None. I don't think so. That's cool. Like just for what it's, it's like the space that you can do whatever the fuck you want. And I don't, I don't think it, I don't know. I think anybody that thinks that they can't do something is limiting themselves. I think anything is possible. So you think I should still wear my elementary school bows? Oh, but then you said her. Tchoo shea, tchoo shea, but guess what? You can take out that yellow bow. She told me to take off the bow and then the dress was cute. I'm like, oh, I didn't need to have this. I knew I liked the dress, but like I outgrew the bow. I mean, this is not a dress from elementary school, but it's a dress from my 30s. And to your daughter's desire, cutting shit works. You can reimagine pieces, right? She's so creative. I really think she might be a stylist or something because she's always like draping fabrics and like doing some weird thing. Okay. I'm going to do my eras, which is just simply very quickly. Wolfie, our eight year old, he's been DJing now for a few years. And he got booked at his school to celebrate like the fundraising event. And this is a clip of him DJing. Wait, you're like a Bobberger. I am totally a Bobberger. Oh, these kids are cool. Could he be any cooler? He's like, oh, after this. He doesn't care. He also doesn't care. He does not care. The way he's sitting, like, how do I encapsulate his energy? His energy is that he is like playing music in his bedroom and all the kids are jumping around. And he's killing it, but he's still just like whatever. And we're trying to infuse in him as his Bobberger. I'm trying to infuse. I'm like, you know, put your hand up sometimes. Like look alive, you know, like, like stand up maybe sometimes. Well, the kids are doing it for him. Why does he need to do it? It's true. It's true. It's true. It's just like sort of striking a balance between like, I really don't give a shit. I love the yellow rope. Like don't get too close. Yes, they had to. We learned that last year. Because last year they rushed him. Honestly, all the kids were just bombarding the table and then thinking that they could also be a DJ. How does he look so cool? He just, he truly like. That's, that used to be my vintage tank top. Whoa. See, cute. Awesome. But one thing that sort of, I guess, like in the journey of this era, first of all, to stand next to your kid who's doing something that feels like grown and empowered. I'm just like, I love it. This is like, this is like, I felt so, so proud. Also as a comic, this was a hell gig. The sun was beating down. It was a bunch of kids yelling requests. No, but no, but I'm feeling it. I said, I'm the tech. I'm setting it all up. And then, and then this manifested because there's been like sort of like changes in the school and like there was a talent show this year. There has not been a talent show. And, and, but Wolfie was talking about missing DJing. And so I got a poster together and we posted it in the front of his school and said that DJ Wolfie is available. And from that poster, now he got booked at two things at the school. But with the poster also came the tearing down of the poster. Just think I've already talked about. But people tear down the poster. We have to keep on printing them out and re-putting. Why? Somebody jelly him. Because haters are out there. They're hating on him and his deep hole. Yeah, dude. You think it's another kid who he's suspected is. I think. We don't know. There's like hundreds of kids at the school. It goes probably like an older kid who's likely. We have speculated that it is a person whose face is a butt and the butt is pooping. So like the face is a butt and there's a poo like hemorrhaging out of the out of the face. This is you and Wolfie imagining it. Yeah. And that's why they're like obviously mad about someone DJing. They're like, my face is a butt hole. Well, so your era is specifically you dealing with. My era is just I wanted to show off that Wolfie DJ. And also just I guess like as a parent, it's like that whole like stand up and look alive. It's like now when I look at the video and he's just really focused on his music, I shouldn't infect him with this sort of like idea of like you should be dancing with them. It's like, well, that's not his vibe. No, his vibe is so him and so cool. And like you said, effortless and like it's like you'd have I do not have that vibe yet. No, I don't know that I know everyone's not going to have that. If you could walk into every party with that vibe, go to the Oscars with that vibe. Yes. Go to any kind of important meeting with that vibe. It's just sold. It's true. You're winning. You are running the world. But off of last episode, we did audience question like an episode full of audience questions. It was incredible. People have been writing one of the best episodes yet. Cute. But one of the questions was shyness and getting your kid to like acknowledge grownups that are kind of shy there. But no, he is shy. He is. But I'm saying like we have to be careful as we teach our kids to say hello to everyone or not because I also really don't like the option of like he'll come say hi when he wants to. It's like getting your kid to say hello. It's like that's something good to work on. That's just like not being rude. But getting your kid to perform a personality is what we don't want them to do. And so somewhere there's a balance somewhere as we talk about having our kids be kind to not also shake out this vibe, which is so magnetic, which is like I'm doing my thing. Yeah. And he's into it. He's into it. He doesn't seem like he's phoning it in. No. His body language, like part of it does seem like oh yeah, what's he doing? But it's like yeah, I love it. So that's my era. Okay, I'll do mine. My era is my husband is going away for three months. Well, it's so funny because that's what I was going to say. All these people are coming out to me. They're like, are you okay? How are you doing? Please reach out. If you do anything. And I'm like, as if I don't have plans to have the best time of my life. Like in my own schedule, only picking up one person's clothing, doing what I want all the time. I mean, yeah, I'm going to have to supplement it with a little bit of help. Like it is annoying to like have to do 100% of the driving. But I'm excited. In my mind, the people that are like, please reach out. Are men that want to fuck you? They're like, are you okay, man? No, truly. It's women who love their husbands so much and they couldn't imagine not being, maybe just because I have one kid. I'm like, now it's just me and her and we're going to do what we want. There is something nice about being a solo. I do love solo time. Yeah. Like I don't, I love our partnership and I, I can't imagine not co-driving with you all the time. But I, when you have to go out of town or whatever the case is where it's just solo parenting, I, it is, it's like, There's no one to check in with of like, what are your, what is your expectation today? The cleaning is a big one. Like, The cleaning, I'm like, I don't have to clean up after her. Yeah, right, dude. I come home. We keep our space differently as we learned. We keep our space differently and I just make sure when you are gone, what I have realized is, if we get you to come back after the cleaner is gone. Oh, that's perfect. That is well planned. That's always a delight. Oh my God, one time we had to go to Hawaii without Shana because her back was out. And the way that that room looked, it was me and the two boys in Hawaii. That room looked like, Disgusting, I can't. Like truly it could have been a clip from TLC's hoarders. It is a crazy idea because like Moshe does this where he, he brings, and I've started doing it too. You bring something out and then you don't do the next part where you put it away. Yeah. When you have like many people in the house doing that. Yeah. I just have piles of like, this now has to go to the garage. This now has to go to that side of the house. But how do you instill in people, you're a very neat person Shana. Like how do you instill in people that you have to do the second part? I'm still learning. I don't know. Be angry. Because now I have her. No, I feel like you will get angry. Okay. You'll be kind of like, yeah, it's like you'll be. I'm not happy about it. No. For sure. Well, let's not talk about this anymore. But I think we should. I think we should. I think we should. Ugly. All right. Well, before you guys start really fighting. Oh wait. No, no, no, no. But no, can I talk about, I think that this is something that's probably like a common thing in relationships. There's one person that's more tidy. There's one person that's less tidy. And one source of tension, I think is if I'm taking care of both kids and you come home and the house does not look the way you want it to look. And we have talked about this. And I would actually love for you to weigh in as well. I mean, I'm exactly like Shana. You'll be mad. I will. I'm with the kids. And I'm clean. Yes, that's the problem. That's my DNA is like, I am uncomfortable if the space is not OK. I've been looking after both kids. So how am I also? Yeah, but it doesn't matter. But I do it and I do that part too. We have to be a bitch if the house is not looking good. That's fine. But I've started to talk about, I'm happy to help you put it back together if that's going to help ease the tension. But if I'm looking after a two year old and an eight year old and we're drawing and we're outside. And we do it differently and that is OK. I'm just saying I want to advocate for the people that are not as talented or intuitive, the people that literally their eyes could be closed or open either way. What's anyone wearing and where are we? Those people, I want to advocate for them and say, when you are looking after the child, just you're good. You're good. You're looking after the kid. That's the job that you're doing. But can I say something when you are looking after the kids, part of what you're not, you're not cleaning, you're taking care of the kids and you, your ability to have fun with them is optimum. Like that is what you. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm also having fun with the kids, but I'm also cleaning. So when I'm cleaning, I'm like, you got to read now. You got to play with your blocks now. Like you're going to do independent time and I'm going to do the chores and then we can rally and we can all have fun together. But I, we are different that way. And I think that Wolfie for sure obviously knows that when it's Baba time, it's just like, we're having fun. Yeah. You know, it's funny. Our daughter the other day, she, she was like, the thing I like about mom is she's lovable. And the thing I like about dad is he has really good boundaries. And I was like, oh, like I need to have better boundaries. It's also crazy that she observed that she knows the word and she observed that. And she declared. She's like been listening to Esther Perrell when she's around. Anyway, I think we should all try polyamory. Well, I do think that, yes, I think people like me and Sabrina admiring people like Moshe, I'm sorry, me and Shana admiring the daddies do it differently. The fact that they are really good at making up stories and doing make believe and always having this like fun energy, like that is cool. I think that that's true. And I also think that like to speak on the daddies, there's like, in the defense of someone who is like playing with their kids in that way and not doesn't have their eye on the tidiness. There are areas that I take on when it comes to taking care of the bills or, you know, the ins and outs of our finances that occupy a part of my mind that are also distracting that I take on. And I think that like sometimes when we get into the sort of like the dads or shit in the moans, keep it all together. One thing that I do think should be sort of like put out there is that there's invisible work in both lanes. The issue, I think, is when the invisible work in one lane is like so much heavier, which I think is where last episode I told, basically I was like all women should leave their husbands and start a company. But also heavier is like maybe one's more fun. Like your lane, your work lane, how you make money looks a lot more fun than where a part of my lane is keeping the house clean, doing the laundry, doing the dishes, all that shit. Like that's not cute or fun. Yes. But you got to do it. I got to do it. And my brain needs it done. And we all need it done to live harmoniously. But to also go deeper into that and I feel safe to do it, that yes, my job does look fun. But then there's lots of parts of my job that I don't advertise that are not sexy or fun. Sure. You know, being it like the travel piece of it being a way when you don't want to waking up early for the plane or auditioning. You know how humiliating it is to put yourself on tape and say like none of it. It's like always going to an offer. Always going to an offer. And then you put like four hours into it. Coming close to getting jobs where you like fantasize that like this is a job you're going to have and like it's like it makes it seem like it seems like it's going to happen. And then not is like those are like the heavy shitty parts. Even I think like any sort of breadwinner that seems like the of course there is the piece of the conversation that is not been had for generations. So it's very important to say the men and women who go out of the house, get accolades, get paychecks, bring it home. That is a rewarding feeling. And you have to acknowledge that doing the dishes and keeping the house tidy and doing all of the invisible work that is being the house and family manager is less sexy and deserves more deserves to be acknowledged. Now that that's put on the shelf, there's also we cannot also forget that there's things that suck about either lane. Of course, yeah. I mean a job is a job is a job is a job. But I do just in what you just covered, I want to say I love when you say thank you for doing the dishes. Like I love when you acknowledge some part of the invisible lane. I love and I've been more conscious of doing that as marriages around me get dilapidated. And women that I'm friends with kind of make comments and I start to realize sort of what my role in our marriage and that in that world of it is. And I will say like when I like a pony up to do a big sort of kitchen clean, and then I tell you that I did it, I'm like expecting an applause break because it fucking sucked. And it was like hours and it's like so much longer than you think it takes. And like I think it sounds like you do a good job. I mean, well, but then I'm like, Shana, I just cleaned the kitchen and she's sort of like cool. Literally welcome to every part of my life. And I'm like, oh, that wasn't sort of a big applause. But like that case in point is like, yeah, I think that everybody actually should do a freaky Friday with their partner and kind of like walk through the invisible aspects of what their partner is taking on. And I bet each person would be surprised with like, oh, I didn't realize that. Yeah, that would take hours and get zero claps. Yeah, yeah, I would do the things differently though. Like just yesterday, like our hot tub broke, there's a machine, there's like a big, we have a soft tub. So there's like this engine in it. And I had a deck built around it. And so Moshe is like, oh, I can't get it out. Where's the hammer? And I'm like, we have to pick up our daughter in like 10 minutes. He's like, I can do it. And he gets this like sledgehammer and tries to start like taking the deck apart. The deck apart, we've got to leave in a few minutes. Like, is there no door? No, he couldn't do it. I was like, I would really encourage you to not do this. Can you please, what is the plan? And he didn't even have one. It was like, I think he just sees red and then gets a tool. And then just like, I'm just like, what is this? It's like so much of our lives. I'll save this for my therapist. Shauna, I want to hear your era. What's my era? I think, I mean, what is perimenopause? I think I'm in that lane. I'm sure you're not just thinking that because everywhere you go. Is everyone has? No, here's all fours on the screen. Miranda July, we want you to come on the podcast. She would. It was like months ago where I was like, ew, I just feel so like Pia Massey. And it doesn't seem to go away. But this was like, I don't know, six, eight, 10 months ago or something. And then it went away. And then I had no other ideas or symptoms. And I hear people talking. And I hear that the hormones are happening. And all the conversations that are in the clouds around me. And I just was like, I'm not noticing that. I'm living a pretty happy, healthy life. I'm having fun. I'm living. And then 72 hours ago, I had finished my cycle. And it just felt like a train ran over me. And I was impatient, irritable. Me. Mad at her. Mad at her. Oh, just like a nonstop mad at her. And the noise that the kids are making. I mean, I made biriyatakos. The kids are just like being themselves. And they're really cute. But to me, it sounds like. And I, oh, jeez, it was, I couldn't even like. Also, your friend was visiting. Your friend was like, cool, I'm glad I flew in. And it's like, I don't know. I don't know if I. I like. Well, you can get your hormone levels. I'm doing it tomorrow. I'm going to get my blood tested. I'm going to get my blood tested. Yeah. To see, because your algorithm might be tricking you into thinking you have it, because you might be too young. I mean, that's what I. And I don't know. I don't know. You're just looking at the news, and that's making you irritable. Mm. Natasha, just get this girl at hormone catch or something. Stop this. I don't know. I mean, but I'm also like resistant to it. Like, I don't want it. I don't want to be in that zone yet. I don't want to take hormones. We have a few more kids to make. Do you really want to have one? Absolutely. We want three more. We want three more. We fucking not. Do you really want to? No. We want a kid named Bethany Boydian Chronicle. And then the other one's going to be called Rahobi. Oh, no. I'm so. Dying. Well, Shauna, listen, we're all trying to figure it out. Yeah. It might be that. And as my husband said, I tried to tell him I'm in perimenopause and he's like, it's been five years. And I'm like, well, I think it lasts a while. I think it is five years. No, it could be anywhere. Like it could be a decade. It could be a decade. It could be no longer than a decade. Oh my god, lesbian relationships, you both go through it. Yeah. Interasante. Yeah. The next LA fire is going to start when I'm on. Finally, you guys will be worse than us at something. Oh, we already are worse at making the most amount of money. Obviously, I'd love if one of us was like a male banker. Oh, that'd be nice. I think, yes. No, not like I wish you were you, but I wish we had the income of a, you know, I think this is like part of what you got. Straight women have it right with like, you got someone to carry your heavy bags and you got someone bringing bags of money home. Now you want to be listened to. Come on. Don't ask for too many things. All right. Well, I want to play a game. I want to get to know you two a little bit better. OK. I want to know, I'm going to give, I'm going to throw some stuff out at you and you tell me who would be better. OK. Do we say our names? Well, say our names instead of me because that'll be confusing for the listener. You can have a slight dialogue about it too. OK. OK. Who is better at staying calm during a child's meltdown? Sabrina. OK. And what, do you have any tips on how to do, how you do that? Yeah, you know what? It's their meltdown, not yours. So just keep it on the outside, man. Don't absorb it. It's not for you. And don't join them. Don't join them. That's something I'm learning. They're on a bad trip. You know, you do drugs and your friend is going on a bad trip. Is it better to be like, oh my god, you're right. The world is fucking awful. Or you're like, I'll be over here. You come over here when you're ready to. Yes. I am still mountain. That's what I'm working on. OK. I like that mountain. Who's better at pretending to listen while scrolling their phone? Sabrina. Sabrina. Awful. It's so annoying. My husband doesn't listen. And like, are you here? No, most of it will literally be when you're here again. On the computer, watching TV on his phone saying, I can hear you. And I'm just like, I'll wait till you're done with all three of those things. OK. Who's better at knowing where the kids stuff actually is? I already know this. It's Shauna. Literally, how dare you even ask that question. I have not known where one thing is since I met Shauna. Moshe does not know what time school's out. No. Oh, I know that. Like, I do the pickup and the drop off, but do I know where any of the things are? Absolutely. Not. OK. No. No, no. Who's better at a bedtime routine? Both. Shauna. Aw. She gave it to you. Shauna is good. I think we just do it different. Like, I'm a bit of like a party girl. You're a party girl too, but no. Do you scroll your phone in the bedroom at bedtime? Not when he's conscious, but when he's drifting up. That doesn't matter. Yeah. Because sometimes Moshe will bring the phone into the, I'm like, how about no phones in her bedroom? No, but remember Michelle Boutou episode? She said she wrote scripts in bed. I remember reading it. But that's after you're sleeping. I think it's wild. OK. OK. Who's better at sneaking in vegetables, obviously Shauna. Shauna. Who's better at discipline? Shauna? Yeah, me. You're going to start pulling your weight in this family, Saddy. I got a good thing going. Who's better, I already know this. Who's better at making things fun when everyone else is tired? Sabrina. Daddy baby. Babadra. Daddy Baba. We all smoke little thin capris and we cackle. Oh my God, that would be so fun. Although I don't like, the light cigarettes, they give you more wrinkles. Do they? Because you're puffing hard. You're like sucking it harder. They're only meant for fun daddy time, which is once a month. Everybody gets a capris. OK. Who's better at remembering school emails? Shauna, obviously. Yes. Oh, OK. Who's better at packing for a trip? Can you not answer? Can you just say one, two, three and we'll answer? OK, OK, fine. Who's better at packing for a trip? Shauna. She literally packed for my trip to Japan. I'm like, this game is falling apart. She packed me for my trip to Japan. So I know. She's a packer. She was like, she gave me an Ikea bag and she was like, these clothes go for your trip to Japan. These clothes go in your suitcase for this. These clothes are for summer when it starts. She just. I loved thinking about you guys in Japan and knowing how cute and warm you were. And I remember when we were in Sicily, I went to your Airbnb and she literally had like nine pairs of sunglasses laid out in the front entrance. How did you get those there? I have a great sunglasses carrier. By the way, shout out to that Airbnb for being the only Airbnb that's ever reviewed us poorly. The review started with Shauna and Sabrina travel with baby and they should be reminded of how the garbage is sorted in this town. I can't believe we hosted you for dinner in there. It was such a fun time. It was very cute. And also I have to say, the way you pack is amazing, but you cooked me one of the best meals I had in Italy. How did we do that? In a bad kitchen. Eggplant. How did you know how to make eggplant pasta? She can make anything. Hey, I'm a bit of a ratatouille. What the fuck? What a hair. Maybe I am fully ratatouille because I am under the hat so I can't see anything. I'm just feeling with my tongue. Okay, let me just ask a few more. Okay. Who's better at middle of the night wake-ups? Probably me, Sabrina. You wake up every night. Yeah, you be waking up. Who is waking up with anxiety in the middle of the night. You wake up and then you wake me up and then... No, but you know what I've started to do that I want to recommend for everyone? Little wax ear plugs. You put them in your ear, they mold to your ear and that's been helping me. I don't wake up when I want to put the wax, the little baby belt cheese wax in it. You don't wake up when the baby cries. No, I don't. That's hilarious. I don't. I figured out how to deal with the crying. I just shut it out. I feel like I'm being put in a little pigeon hole and I don't mind. Who's better at screen time boundaries? Me. Shauna. Who's better at teaching life lessons? Sabrina! I got to get in there somewhere. I mean it feels like, is it? I think both of us, but sure, yeah. I'll take this one. Yeah. Okay, who's more fun? I hate that it's not me, but... I don't think that that's true though. You do like, you are like, if there's ever anyone... I have less opportunities to be fun. No, I'm telling you, I think you are as fun. I think that the thing about you is like, if there's a fair coming to town, her ears start burning and her little Irish feet start to tick. I do always want an activity or an adventure. 100 miles away, if there's like a folding table being like unfolded and set up and the sound of like homemade crafts going on it, Shauna's already in the car, she's got the kids, she's going to the fair. No, even when you just had Wolfie, you would, I would be like, what's going on today? You're like, well, I'm driving to Ventura to have a little picnic on the beach. Well, I'm like, what? No, she drove to the track. You're going to drive an hour to go have a beach picnic? Because she read that there was like a butterfly festival. You know, she's like, she is after the festival. She's taking them to the things. Now I'm really curious, this is my last one. But I actually, this is the only one so far that I don't know the answer to. Which is? Who's more feared? Oh, I think Shauna. So weird. Do you think you are? Yeah. Because when my daughter was like, oh, dad has more boundaries, she was getting to, he has, he's disciplined. You know, you're not. I think that I can either of us could make them cry with our disappointment. I hate that. Yeah. No, but I mean, like not like that's a move that I, but I think like I could, you know, if I need to like really lay down the mallet. I have a question for both of you. This is a real question. Last night we got into a fight because she didn't want to, me and my daughter, she didn't want to play the flute. She's got to practice the flute for her school. And then we, then I was like telling her, you know, I don't know if I raised my voice, but I was like, you know, I was just like, we got to do that. She ended up doing the flute. But then afterwards she's like, you yelled at me. And I was like, I didn't yell at you. And she's like, well, I want an apology for you yelling at me. I recently had a thing with Wolfie like this. What do you do? You know what? I was kind of, so I was kind of stumped. I loved, so our situation was Wolfie. Oh, he was trying to tell me that he had done something already, that he had read already. Cause I was like, you got to read like no more screens. It's reading time. I call it brain break. Like you just got to do this other thing. And he was trying to tell me that he had already read for however long, but I, he, I immediately wasn't listening to him. And I said, no, just do it. Do the reading. Like you have to do it vibe. And I was like, just steamrolling over in his attempt to say, but I already read mom. Actually that's what was happening last night. I was steamrolling. She's like, I already practiced and I was like, that wasn't long enough. And then he started to cry and I was like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. Hold on a second. Hold on. Let me understand what's happening. You're like, hold on. Are you maybe listening to me right now? No, I would have, that could be, but it wasn't. And I felt, I was like sweet little, because they're not used to a beaster. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I guess he's probably was telling the truth. He probably did already. He absolutely was. And I was steamrolling and not listening. And I, that, you know, we can do that as adults in our partnerships, in our relationships out in the world. We can sometimes not listen. So you apologize. Absolutely. I was like, I am so sorry. I was just focused on wanting to make sure that you were getting your reading in and I wasn't listening to you. And I will pay attention to that. And I'm so sorry. That's good. See, that probably would have worked last night. That's really, it's so hard in the moment to like know what the, you know, you listen to these parenting advice things and it's like, yeah, I can't keep it chill all the time. I don't know how to do that. No, I think that that's true. I think that two things can be true. You could be like, I ideally don't want to have to talk to you like this. But when it feels like you're not listening to me, that's the result. So. But her demanding an apology felt like I want you to say that I didn't do anything wrong. And then I don't want her to. I don't know. I'm just like, I just want to say the right thing to get to, you know, get the best results. I think, you know what, and after that interaction with me and Wolfie, he was so soft and gentle and loving with me for the rest of the afternoon. Yeah, she was too. Actually, I think I ended up apologizing. Yeah, I think it really meant something to him that I paused, pivoted, gave him acknowledgement. And yes, yeah, they want to be an adult and I did fuck up. I'm sorry, babe. I love you. I will work on that. Yeah. She was like, I hate when we fight in bed. And it was like really, I was like, I guess we were kind of in a fight, you know? Yeah. But yeah, that's you have really good instincts. I think, Shana, you do too, Sabrina. You're sometimes yours are a little like, root better than Shana's. Is that where you're going? A little of why I take what you did and get back in your face. Okay. Wait, so that's interesting. I want to know, did she pick the flute? No, no, they make them all do it. Really? Really hard. It's like everybody's got to play the flute. Yeah, it's really hard. And okay, for how long forever? I don't know. I don't know. And like they're in a flute band at school? She doesn't like it. I mean, they're playing this freaking amazing song. It's like this like. Cut to the song. We had to play the recorder in elementary school. Like that was something we had to like. It's like that. Have time with. It's just, these are wooden and they're like $200. Okay. Well, I think it's time to take one of these listeners submitted questions. Let's see what's going on out there with our public. With our public? Who's out there? What are they thinking? Who's out there with our public? You have one unheard message. Okay. It's 3 a.m. My shoes are gone. I was there and my Uber rating is definitely a zero. You are not ready for this story. Hey, I'm Davis Rowe. You might know me from TikTok, where I share little snapshots of my life. But here's the thing. You only see the 30 second version. There's so much more behind the scenes. The night's out. The morning's after. The drama. The men. And even a little wisdom I picked up along the way. Welcome to It's Always Something with Davis Rowe. My unfiltered voice note style podcast, where I let you all the way in. Every week we're talking about everything. College life in the spotlight, messy stories, hot takes, calling advice, and all the ridiculous moments that make life fun. And don't worry, names will be said. Because if there's one thing about me, it's always something. And that's the fun of it. So tune in to It's Always Something with Davis Rowe every Friday, wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, Natasha and Sabrina. Thanks for sharing how your families came to be and a recent episode. I found it really interesting and inspiring. I am a perspective queer parent and am always curious about what different donor families look like. And so, Sabrina, this question's more for you. But was there a conversation with your donor about what the relationship would look like in the future? Health conversations. You know, like the less sexy things other than like, you're a cute guy, great server. And just a cool dude. I mean, those things are important, but just curious, like how those conversations happened or if they've just happened over time. And that relationship seemed really organic. And I really aspire to have something similar, but wasn't sure how those conversations were structured. So thanks. I so appreciate the podcast and hearing all its perspectives. Thank you for the question. That was so sweet. Thank you for the compliments too. And I'm excited for your family, your future family. And I think like the first step of being like, okay, I kind of like, I'm interested in the shape of a known donor is like a great first step. A lot of people, you know, you're starting from like, do we do sperm bank? Do we do known? And so I'm assuming that there might be someone that you have in mind. I think there's also, if you Google it, there's like now like matchmaking sites for donors. But your question seems more surrounding what how to have those rules of engagement. How does it conversations, which we met our donor and there was a contract that we kind of, yeah, yeah, sisterhood of the traveling donor contract acquired. Our friend, Boyana had sent it to us and she had her donor sign it. And there was a clause in the contract that said, you have zero visitation rights. And I think that was the only thing in the contract that our donor had read and was like, well, that seems like not what we were talking about. Because what we had talked about is like the whole point of having a known donor is that like our family, this is the story of our family and that he is certainly like a pivotal character in this family. Especially since he's the donor to both children. To both children. Yeah. No matter what, it's like, I think that that's such a special part of our story is like how our children came to be. And like, of course we want him to have a relationship with them. I think that piece, and I explained, I think that piece of the contract is specific to... You can't come take our kids. You can't come take our kids, which is like the deep fear. But I think like in how we met him and how our whole story unfolded and evolved, it's like it started with magic. It led into magic. And then we were like, sign this paper because we need to be legitimate. Yeah. And if you don't know the story, we did Natasha and I, an episode called How Our Families Came To Be. And basically the Kohl's Notes of it is that Shana and I, our baby's donor, was my one hour surf instructor in Mexico. And so like... Is Kohl's Notes a Canadian thing? Is it? I know. Is it? We're like Cliff Notes in America. Kohl's Notes is Canadian Cliff Notes. And shout out to Kohl's Notes, our sponsor. But like when we didn't know what was ahead of us and all we knew was he was like, okay, I don't know what that looks like, but I am down to help you. And we were, we like made it all up as we went and we continue to do so. So you took out that clause. Well, I think that I just wrote by hand. Yeah. Actually, you can visit. I mean, and it was so like unofficial. Like it was so... But like signing a contract, I think is a good thing. Just in practice, it brought up that conversation. And so we kind of, within that clause, we had a conversation of what we actually feel that sort of like, I don't know, area would look like. And we're like, we want, we obviously, like we miss when we don't see him and his family and he has two kids now, like we do miss them and they miss us. And we are sort of, we are this big extended family. And we kind of like found our way with it. But I do think like what is not talked about as much as that, like when you have a known donor that is in arm of your family that requires upkeep and finding your rhythm of like how often and how much and making sure everybody feels sort of like on the same page or taken care of is its own, its own sort of plot line in your life. Just like, you know, your relationship with your siblings or your parents or... But that's also how we have evolved this family. Yeah. We know other people who have known donors that do it a different way. Yes. Yeah. So I think making sure that you're on the same page. And also I have two friends who adopted a kid from this woman who has like 12 kids, who's a drug addict in some other state. We're having her on next week. But you know, they still are in contact with her in some very specific ways and take care of her and you know, send her pictures. But it's like, contracts need to be involved, right? Yes, it needs to be because it's like, you know, ultimately it's your most prized possession, I'm going to call it kid, but like your most, the biggest treasure in your life. Yeah. It would be silly not to, even though it's not sexy, have that conversation. Now with health, that's another area that we just kind of took a leap of faith. And when we started sort of like approaching the insemination, we did have those conversations and like certain things did come up. But ultimately when it comes to health, unless it's something that's like, feels like it's a hereditary curse. And it's like, well, I obviously like, you know, I'm going to avoid this like guaranteed cancer diagnosis or whatever. I don't know what it would be. But like, I think when we choose our donors, we, that's the part that can be like less, less sexy in a way that I don't think is necessary is to like comb through family history of every possible thing that could come up because we all have skeletons, diseased skeletons in our closets. And, you know, certainly your friends that fell in love with men and are not going the donor route. Also, if you were to like look behind the curtain of those men's family histories, there's things there. And I think you're missing the trees for the forest if you get too focused on that stuff. Also, if your donor, Ricky, was like really difficult during the signing stage and it's like those are all, it's good to have those conversations because then they're informing you. Maybe this isn't the right thing, you know? So I think it's always good to like try to figure that stuff out. Yeah, I think ultimately like open communication throughout the whole process, like within that partnership, within the now extended partnership of the donor person or family, like because everything is always changing. So everything, like you just have to keep up the conversation and make sure that everyone is good with where you're at. Can I say another thing just from observing you two? Why I think your situation is so great? Please. Because Sabrina, I mean, I don't think it's just because of Sabrina, but Sabrina really has this attitude. It's like, I'm cool. Something cool is going to happen to me. Cool. And it's like you really do have this positivity that is, I mean, I know everyone hates the secret now, but I do think that you kind of create your own destiny, you know? Like you guys are very like life by design and this is what I want. And so guess what? It's going to come to me, babe. Well, I think that attitude matched very well with Shauna's part of like Shauna's magic, the spine of who she is, is that she's looking for signs and she's open to signs. And she kind of believes in destiny in this way that I am a little, you know, my starting place is a little more jaded than to be like, I'm definitely like cool and I want cool things to happen. But Shauna's like, oh my God, a bird. Let's walk in that direction. I'm like, what? We're walking towards a bird. She's like, oh my God, this bird just took its last breath in my hands. We're going to do a funeral for the bird. And I'm like, okay, now we're doing a funeral for the bird. But I think that like the universe rewards her attention to the little signs that sometimes I'm like, okay, we're doing a little bird funeral. But sometimes it's like, you know, the you being you and me being that is what landed us exactly with a surf lesson that is now our donor daddy. I remember, oh God, I just, I remember. So we met him and then we planned the thing and then we went back for our, as Sabrina calls it, a jizzness, what? Jizzness trip. Jizzness trip. But it's like jizzness case. No, I was going to say vacation, jizzness. Are you going on a jizzness trip? Do you need something to put all that spirit in? Introducing the jizzness case. But I remember walking around that week that we were together. So we went back and this is when we're going to inseminate and we had our Airbnb and he would come over and we would do our thing. But before that, for a week, we just adventured together us and Ricky and then sometimes his cousin and we went to the jungles and we rode horses and we went fishing and just like it was so fun and beautiful and cool and wild and what the fuck and yes, this is, well, we're doing, we're making this happen this way. And I felt, I know exactly the part of the bridge walking into town where I felt so overcome with like, I just, we're so lucky that we got to do it and that it worked and that, you know, we total cry that we picked each other and that magic picked us the way that it did. Aww, you see, we should all be lesbians. Well, let's get Shauna Kleenex and... Welcome back to another episode of We Should All Be Lesbians. Come back next week and... Yes, please do come back next week. Guess who we have next week? Who do we have? Comic superstar Gianmarco Suresi. Oh, he's hilarious. I went to Japan with him. Well, we'll hear all about it. This last trip? Oh, cool. Like, follow, subscribe. To Pcast. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.