“A-Punk” — Vampire Weekend

If you had to pick just one album to define the 21st century so far, what would it be? I'm Cole Kushner from Disect. And I'm Charles Holmes from The Midnight Boys and on Tuesday, July 29th, Colin Iron watching season 4 of Last Song Standing. But this year, we're mixing things up. Instead of searching for an artist's greatest song, we're asking an even bigger question. What is the greatest album of the 21st century so far? Listen to Last Song Standing on the Disect Podcast Feed or the Disect YouTube channel starting Tuesday, July 29th. From my whole thing, you can find me on Instagram, Blue Sky, and us often Twitter. And I will update you there with specifics as we get them. But just know that we will miss you all terribly and we will return rejuvenated very shortly. See you soon. Thanks. You tell bed to feel like... Oh, and room service to feel like... Choose Hilton. Because at Hilton, hospitality feels like... Good morning. Enjoy your breakfast. It matters where you stay. Book now at hilton.com. Hilton, for the stay. We don't talk enough about how cool I used to be. So now we've come to the part of the night where the dirty projectors and York perform. That was me just now going, woo, in the background there. No, it wasn't. Of course that wasn't me. I would never go, woo, at such a rare and prestigious event. That's not cool, but I was there. The night of May 8th, 2009 at Housing Works. That's a cool bookstore in Soho. That's a cool neighborhood in Manhattan. When the dirty projectors, that's a cool rock band, performed live with Bjork. That's Bjork on a suite of extremely cool tunes about whale watching from a mountain in Northern California. The guy handling the introductions here. He's author and show promoter and cool website grew Brandon Stozy. He also published a great book about crying and public. Brandon's really cool. These tunes were eventually released in 2011 on a dirty projectors and Bjork studio EP called Mount Whittenberg Orca. But to paraphrase Peewee Herman, I don't have to listen to it. I've been listening to the song for a long time. It all say first of all that the experience of standing physically, what, 70 feet from Bjork on stage when she hits one of those patented incomprehensibly rad Super Bjork vocal swoops like on the word where just now the curve and nose where you all got that is an absurdly life changingly cool moment. That is a thunderbolt straight down your spine. Second of all, is this fucking guy going to go with the whole time? Is he going to be carrying on in this matter? The whole time Bjork is singing 70 feet away from us on stage in a bookstore. He better not matter. A fact, no, he ain't and I'll tell you why the coolest thing about live recordings is a little nuances, right? The ambient noises, the shuffling, the muttering, the imperfections, the sense of reverent people gathered in a room together. And so halfway through this song, if you listen very closely, you can hear me personally, grab the woo guy and DDT him into the housing works cookbook section. A DDT is a devastating pro wrestling move that I can definitely do and I certainly can describe it to you like logistically. I just choose not to do that. It's very low in the mix, but if you concentrate, you can hear a faint, right here as I heroically wail this clown. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. I remember this. The joint is packed, right? And so I'm pressed up against the back wall of the bookstore. And I'm in the fiction section shelved alphabetically. And I'm standing near the seas, all the letter C authors. And I start pulling out Tom Clancy books and reading just the last few sentences in every Tom Clancy book. I don't know why I'm doing this. You know, Tom Clancy, he wrote the hunt for red October and several dozen other like Uber dad books, Reagan era, military thrillers, Jack Ryan, that's Tom Clancy's famous character. Jack Ryan, who knows a lot about World War II and gets to beat up a bunch of terrorists like patriotically. There's a Jack Ryan TV show on Amazon Prime now where John Krasinski plays Jack Ryan. And in season two, he personally punches the president of Venezuela in the face. If that's not exactly true, I don't care. I just start pulling out Tom Clancy books, flipping to the last page and reading the endings allowed. I'm doing this as a bit, I guess, to amuse my rock critic friends between opening acts to burn off some nervous energy. I was young. Okay. Okay. I was 30. With sure seemed all at the time, but it sure seems young now. Tom Clancy, the cardinal of the Kremlin, 1988 last page quote, one way or another, we all fight for the things we believe in. Doesn't that give us some common ground? Jack asked. He walked off to his car, leaving Tomatov with the thought. Meanwhile, apparently everybody at this dirty projectors in Bjork show is whooping the whole time ridiculous. What kind of way is that to behave act like you've been there before, David burn is in this room. MIA is in this room. Haley Joel Osmond, star of the sixth sense and later happy Gilmore to that guy, that kid, whatever he's apparently in this room. Bjork is on that stage. Am I the only person in this room who truly grasps the importance, the solemnity, the gravity of this event, Tom Clancy, the sum of all fears, 1990 last page quote, killed enough. Ryan slid the sword back into its sheath and let it fall to his side. Yes, your highness, I think we all have. My one remotely concrete rock critic type thought as I watch this show is that I like to imagine that the dirty projectors are singing in binary code like they're exceedingly cool staccato coral, yelping, complimentary sounds like binary code, except instead of zeros and ones, it's a a a a a a a a a that's all I got in terms of like analysis. Did I blog this show? I bet I did. I am afraid to go find out if I blog this. Never mind, forget I asked Tom Clancy executive orders, 1999 last page quote, thank you, Mr. President. We looked out and cross the long horizon. We're building up to the huge cataclysmic emotional climax here. We're Bjork in the whale lock eyes and intensely vibe with each other and come to a profound metaphysical understanding. Meanwhile, why am I still doing this Tom Clancy, the bear in the dragon 2000 last page quote, for one particular person in Beijing, the changes meant that her job would change somewhat in importance if not in actual duties. Ming went out to dinner. The restaurant's hadn't closed with her foreign lover gushing over drinks and noodles with the extraordinary events of the day, then walked off to his apartment for a dessert of Japanese sausage and quote, yo. We looked in each other's eyes and realized that we only. We looked in each other's eyes and realized that we are only one sings Bjork to the whale or Bjork sings that about the whale to us. So occasionally in this era, I get to go to these cool shows in New York City shows that radiate a palpable cultural significance shows that will be blogged possibly by me and definitely by others shows that will be attended by people you may have heard of and perhaps even admire. Maybe it's me blocking your view of Bjork or maybe it's Questlove blocking your view or tie on day Braxton, the dude from that cool rock band battles. I love that band. Maybe it's him blocking your view. He's tall in my experience. Anyway, going to these shows, you just get a vague satisfying but also weirdly intimidating sense that you're in the thick of it. You are present physically for an occasion of moderate societal impact. There is Brooklyn, the idea, right? The amorphous, fantastical, cliched, deified, and or derided quote unquote indie rock and quote unquote hipster playground that exists primarily on the internet. And there's Brooklyn, the physical location where one might live and walk dogs and drink coffee and attend concerts. And sometimes you find yourself at a show so radiant with greatness and coolness that it feels like you're in the real Brooklyn and the internet Brooklyn simultaneously. Actually, we're in so Yorks and so we're all watching Bjork and so hope, but this feels spiritually like a Brooklyn thing. And a major topic here today is Manhattan's valiant attempt to rest the crown of zeitgeist defining coolness back from Brooklyn. Listen, I got a lot of my mind and I had never seen Bjork live before in a venue of any size. And I'm freaking out a little bit and we all got our weird defense mechanisms. Tom Clancy, the hunt for red October, 1984 quote Ryan missed the dawn. He boarded a TWA 747 that left Dallas on time at 7.05 a.m. The sky was overcast and when the aircraft burst through the cloud layer into sunlight, Ryan did something he had never done before. For the first time in his life, Jack Ryan fell asleep on an airplane. And then we all whoop that Bjork and the dirty projector some more and then it was over. Hey, great news everybody. I did blog this show. Oh, thank God. I blogged about this show for the village voice and apparently I got paid by the adjective. Sheesh, that's a weird payment system. I mentioned Haley Joel Osmond in this blog and I honestly can't tell if I'm joking. I don't know if I physically saw him there or if I'm just using Haley Joel Osmond as an example of the sort of celebrity you might have seen there. That's a good sign, right? When you blog a blog so oblique that even you can't tell if you're joking, that's fantastic. You may be asking, how did I find time to be fully present and maintain a rock critic type laser focus and take careful, lucid, insightful, handwritten notes for my little blog during this Bjork and dirty projector's deal. If I'm also way in the back flipping through the hunt for red October, how could I possibly goof around the whole time? But later, generate an attentive and decisive piece of online music criticism? Well, I'm afraid you somehow both under and overestimated my professionalism. Hell, yeah, I can multitask. Hell, yeah, I can read excerpts from the cardinal of the Kremlin allowed to my rock critic buddies during all the opening acts and then later when I'm writing, I can be like after a hushed plaintive opening set from Google, Google, Google, Google, this blog of mine does remind me that after the housing work show, I went to the Bjork and dirty projectors after party, which took place at Cooper Square Hotel, a super fancy hotel in the East Village. Either this hotel is called the standard now or it was always called the standard and I misidentified it as the Cooper Square Hotel. I'm getting paid by the adjective. I'm not getting paid by the fact. All right, all I can tell you about this hotel, according to my blog, is that it's absurdly oversized, overextravagant, lovely, and vertiginous. That'll be $4. Anyway, Bjork DJ the after party and played Trill by the clips. Okay, and this also is a surreal absurd life-changing Thunderbolt type moment, watching Bjork behind the decks or whatever, and she's bouncing around joyously and going, bitch, I'm Trill, bitch, I'm so Trill, everybody was into the clips in 2009. Trust me, even the whales were blogging about the clips in 2009. In my little blog from this event, I wrote that Bjork DJed this after party, but I put DJed in scare quotes. That's rude. What? Hey, calm down, lester bangs, but I was there. I spent nearly five years being there. I spent nearly five years living in both Brooklyn, the mythical sociocultural internet idea and Brooklyn, the literal physical place. I arrived there in 2006, proudly and skittishly serving as music editor at the Village Voice of the Leaven Cultural Institution, recently acquired by a polarizing national chain of alt-weeklies as part of a spiritual hostile corporate takeover in the out of town, Dickish, spiritual hostile takeover guys had fired the previous beloved Village Voice Music Editor and hired me instead. We didn't even live in New York yet and they installed me there in the beloved guy's place. So at first anyway, everyone at the paper justifiably hated me. I arrived in New York City in 2006 and I'd missed it. I was so worried I'd missed it. New York City was so cool for so long, but by 2006 it wasn't cool anymore and I'd missed it. That's what you do. When you move to New York, you move there, you move all your shit into your place and you wake up that first morning. Do you even have a bed yet? There's just a mattress on the floor and you walk out your front door or you climb out of your manhole or whatever your real estate situation is and there it is New York City. The place you live now and you take a deep breath, you exhale and you say out loud, I missed it because you did. Everyone thinks they missed it and everyone's right, but also everyone's wrong. So in the early 2000s, I'm living in Ohio and I'm reading about how rock is back in New York City is back. I'm reading about the strokes and the yay, yay, yay, as an Interpol and LCD sound system and TV on the radio and it all sounds so amazing, so revolutionary, so paralyzingly cool, so legitimately life changing. And I finally get to New York City in 2006 and it's over. I missed it. I can still see the strokes and the yay, yay, yes and Interpol and LCD sound system and TV on the radio and I do, but I see them now at say a huge famous uptown venue like Radio City Music Hall and not at a tiny cool underground dish venue like say the Mercury Lounge on the Lower East Side. I missed the exhilarating ascent, the underground cool years, the our little secret because we live in New York years. These bands are still great, but they're not mine. To the extent that any art generated in this city can ever be said to be mine, I missed it. If you ever moved to New York, you missed it. Even if you were born there, you missed it. Babies born in New York City, the baby, you know, comes out of the womb. The baby says I missed it out loud, audibly, and then the baby starts crying and doesn't talk again for months. Everyone from anywhere at any time missed it. But you take that first deep breath as a person living in New York City and you say I missed it out loud and then you get on with it. Whatever you're doing or trying to do and inevitably a cool new band will emerge to provide the soundtrack to you trying to do whatever you're doing. And to the extent that you can say this about any art generated in New York City ever, maybe right now this cool new band can be yours. In January 2010, the New York City Rock Band Vampire Weekend released their second album, called Contra. It will debut at number one on the Billboard album chart. This song is called White Sky. And first of all, to me, this song beautifully evokes just the feeling of walking around New York City, the awe but also the intimidation but also the palpable studied indifference of a person who walks around New York City all the time because they live in New York City and it's not cool anymore. So play it cool. So the first line there, an ancient business, a modern piece of glasswork down on the corner that you walk each day in passing. You are living and working and walking in daydreaming and perhaps blogging in the city that created culturally both the past as you understand it and the future as you imagine it in the sheer happiness of this particular vampire weekend song and also pretty much every other vampire weekend song. The quick lift little afro pop bounce to White Sky personifies both the spring and my step as I walk the streets of New York. I'm not very cool. And the chaotic manic way too fast stream of consciousness semi intrusive thoughts bashing around my skull at all times as I walk the streets of New York. Alas, I have no outlet for these random chaotic thoughts in 2010 because the podcast hasn't been invented yet to accommodate me. The podcast had for sure been invented by 2010. I assume my published blogs aren't necessarily accurate what makes you think my racing intrusive thoughts are accurate. Living in New York City and watching yourself as you live in New York City, tending to the pointless internal model log one generates whilst living in New York City. These lines encapsulate that for me. A little stairway, a little piece of carpet, a pair of mirrors that are facing one another out in both direction. A thousand little Julius that come together in the middle of Manhattan. There are 8 million stories in the naked city. And if you're narcissistic enough, all of them can be about you. Manhattan can be populated exclusively by 8 million reflections of you. Hey, did I mention that I saw a vampire weekend live the week the contra album came out at the United Palace Theater in Washington Heights? That's a cool neighborhood in Manhattan. In my only concrete memory of this show, really is a vampire weekend bassist Chris Bale bouncing around on stage as the band opened with this song, White Sky. I thought to myself the bass is having so much fun up there. Good for him. Also the contra album cover was blown up real huge and projected behind the band. The blonde lady with the polo shirt staring intriguingly at the camera. The polo logo almost looks like a superfluous apostrophe between the R and the A in the word contra. That lady would later sue vampire weekend claiming they didn't get permission to use that photograph and they'd settle out a court. There's a whole fiasco that I probably blogged about several times, but nonetheless fantastic album cover. Truly. Meanwhile, lyrically, White Sky is still really, really, really doing it for me around the corner, the house that modern art built, a house for modern art to keep it out the closets, the people who might own it, the sins of pride and envy, and on the second floor the Richard Sarah skate park. Vampire weekend will spend at least the first several years of their career serving as a weird intense flashpoint in various internet-born rock critic debates about race and class debates about privilege and appropriation debates about rich people poisoning art debates about how one even defines the term rich people or the word poisoning or the word art, but part of what's maddening about vampire weekend to the critics who find this band maddening is that vampire weekend are themselves constantly having that debate. This band is constantly thoughtfully working through those ideas both in their interviews and in their songs. And so, super rich people owning priceless works of art, owning and scare quotes and owning literally that plain fact, that abstract idea, that moral atrocity of anyone owning art at this scale, that's all part of this song, White Sky as well, the people who might own it, the sins of pride and envy, and the last line there, and on the second floor the Richard Sarah skate park, you can fall down the rabbit hole of what that means precisely. Richard Sarah, the extremely famous sculptor, famous for these huge installations, these giant gorgeous awe-inspiring, intimidating, and vaguely ridiculous monoliths of steel, etc. did Richard Sarah open a skate park or did trespassing punk skate-borders turn one of his installations into a skate park? Why is it on the second floor? You can spend a couple hours mulling all that over, or you can just vibe, man, to the melodiousness of this song, the jovial charisma, the perfect pop song for validity of it all, because whether you love vampire weekend or hate them, any depth you project onto these songs will be equaled, will be countered by the care and the thought, and yes, the depth that vampire weekend used to create these songs in the first place. Look up at the buildings, imagine who might live there, imagining your walfords and a ball upon the sink there. There's that awe and the intimidation and the pedestrian daydreaming again. Also, do you know what walfords are? I didn't. They're tights. Apparently, I thought they were shoes. I just assumed they were shoes because anytime I encounter an unfamiliar proper noun in a vampire weekend song, I just assume they're singing about shoes, because sometimes they are. This band is mine. I'm claiming this band as mine, because they emerged from New York City whilst I personally was living in New York City. That's how the city works. If you recently moved in New York City, congratulations, and also, I'm sorry to inform you that you missed it, but I was there. A couple months ago, I was at another show in Columbus, Ohio. I live in Ohio, again. Ohio is cool now. I took my sons 14 and 11 years old. I took my sons to their first big concerts. I bought them pizza and gatorade. This is an outdoor show in amphitheater with a big open lawn section. We got there too late to get decent seats, but some kind-hearted friends squeezed us in. But even then, my kids are a little too short to have clear sight lines. So my 11-year-old is sneaking into the aisle periodically, because he can't quite see over the dude standing in front of them. The concert starts. My kids are vibing. I make the kids wear earplugs and they don't want to, but then when they find out how loud the music is, they're grateful for the earplugs because I know what I'm talking about. Dad knows what he's doing. And halfway through the show, my younger sons got to use the bathroom. So we walk up the lawn to the bathroom at the back of the venue. And as we re-emerge right at the moment, when we can once again see the stage, see the band on stage. As we walk back down to our spots, the band launches into one of their first big hit songs. And my son and I get to have this nice little entrance music hero moment. Because my kids are carrying on a proud family tradition. Now my kids can say, I was there too. My name is Rob Harvilla. This is the 30th episode of 60 Songs that explain the 90s Cole and the 2000s. And this week we are discussing A Punk by Vampire Weekend. From the first Vampire Weekend album released in 2008 and called Vampire Weekend. A hyphen punk. This song, soundtracks, this song has appeared in advertisements for HP printers and more recently, Dix sporting goods. I don't mean that as a criticism. Personally, I got no problem with advertising. See? I love advertising. Can I please play you my all-time favorite song by the cool Brooklyn rock band Grizzly Bear? This band is mine also. From their third album released in 2009 and called Vecca to Mist. This is a Grizzly Bear song called Foreground. Last song on the album. Grizzly Bear specialized in elegant and achingly beautiful choral art rock type jams. They sound like the whales with whom Bjork is vibing. I remember so vividly hearing this song live, but this memory is somehow both tremendously vivid and incredibly vague. I don't know where this show was or when or who else was there or what else happened. I just remember this song Foreground performed in near darkness an absolute reverent silence. I vaguely recall four long poles, vertical poles on stage with a lamps on them. In those lights, we're super dim for this whole song and possibly extinguished altogether. But I could be imagining this. Googling like Grizzly Bear stage lighting or really anything Grizzly Bear related only brings up photos of actual Grizzly bears like the animals. It's a sub-optimal band name. Grizzly Bear SEO wise. You got to name your band something totally random and silly and unforgettable and un-googleable for any other purpose like Vampire Weekend. But so Grizzly Bear is doing this song Foreground and the lights are way down and the crowds absolutely silent time and standing still. Every hair on my arms is standing up and we're all just locked in to Grizzly Bear singer Ed Drossi's voice. Even in this version of this song, the studio version, the studio version you are hearing in 10 second clips on some guy's podcast, it's still so startling. Right, the tremendous intimacy, the opulent vehement of his voice. We're all you know, I'm still getting paid by the adjective. It does not matter to me, one Iota, what Ed Drossi is singing here by the way, like the words. I don't know any of the lyrics to this song and I don't care and I hope Ed would understand and would take that as the enormous compliment I intended to be. It's all in the bracing tone and atmosphere here. The super simple piano recital piano riff, the stark sumptuousness of Ed's voice, the overwhelming quiet, the overwhelming calm of Foreground. It is translike, it is transsportive, it is a universe unto itself, it is a Brooklyn of the mind and of the soul. Grizzly Bear has got a ton of great songs but only one of them is this one. I love that simple drum beat starting to kick in right there. This song is phenomenal but beautifully and patiently sung chamber pop of this gravity and density. This would not appear to be party music, little own pool party music but our friends Jay-Z and Beyoncé would disagree. Okay, this is audio from the very famous video of Jay-Z and Beyoncé watching Grizzly Bear play a giant free outdoor show, a pool party, spiritually if not literally, at the Williamsburg waterfront in 2009. Grizzly Bear playing another song from their Vecca to Mist album called Ready Able, Ready Comma Able. This is the most blogged video in music blog history. It is a 46 second amateur creep shot video and it is without question the ugliest visual composition of our young century. Go look at this thing again sometime, it's disturbing, it's hilarious. Jay-Z and Beyoncé are standing in the VIP section near this grubby little VIP tent, just a little tarp roof sort of deal. They're surrounded by lots of people remarkably. They don't have like a Pope mobile or anything and this video is shot serpitiously from just a few people behind them and you see the back of Jay-Z's head, he's wearing sunglasses and you see him turning to his right to talk to Beyoncé, who's holding a plastic cup of wine and she's standing a few steps higher than him so her head is cut off by the VIP tent and beyond them you see the band, you see Grizzly Bear on stage also mostly with their heads cut off by the VIP tent, it's surreal, it's macabre. Every time I go back to this video, it takes me 10 full seconds to even figure out what I'm looking at. I understand that this footage is shot like this because if the camera person were to attempt to get a decent and unobstructed angle of Jay-Z and Beyoncé, that camera person would immediately be shot with a bow and arrow, or perhaps a cannonball or whatever Jay-Z and Beyoncé's security deal is working with. Nonetheless, this video looks ridiculous and yet is of tremendous cultural importance. Here's the Grizzly Bear song that probably convinced them to come check this shit out in the first place. I forgot how weird this song's video is. This song is called Two Weeks. It's off Grizzly Bear's Vekka to Miss Record. This is the band's signature song and biggest hit and I am mildly surprised to learn that Two Weeks didn't chart on the hot 100 but the Vekka to Miss Record hit number 8 on the Billboard album chart. This is a top 10 pop album but improperly and impressively, it's pop on Grizzly Bear's terms. Grizzly Bear's music is a lavish cathedral surrounded by modest yurts and Grizzly Bear's uncompromising ascent is indicative, if I may be so bold, of a legit indie rock movement. So in 2006, a scrappy local promotion outfit called Jelly NYC starts doing free outdoor summer concerts at Macaron Park Pool in the abandoned and drained Olympic-sized pool there. In 2009 they move over to the Williamsburg waterfront and that venue is less cool and by 2010 it's all over but you know nothing gold can stay. Featured artists include the dirty projectors, the whole steady beach house, MGMT, SuperChunk, etc etc. We're talking 5,000 people officially and possibly way more than that unofficially. We're talking Dodge Ball, we're talking basketball, we're talking Giant Slip-ins Lides, we're talking many pancakes for sale for $5, we're talking every hipster joke you've ever heard in your life made flesh. I just read a great oral history of these parties on a substack called Will Have to Pass and apparently at the MGMT show, somebody found a purse that somebody else had pooped in. Make of that what you will, I think it's gross. I saw fucked up in Mission of Burma at the Williamsburg waterfront to fantastic punk adjacent bands who started up in two different decades. Another time I saw DMC as in Run DMC. I don't do slip-ins Lides that is both beneath my dignity and beyond my physical ability. But yeah, Jay-Z and Beyoncé and Salonge went and saw Grizzly Bear and the footage became the Zapruder film of the late 2000's music blogosphere and the next day Jay-Z does an interview with MTV and they ask him about Grizzly Bear and Jay-Z says, quote, what the indie rock movement is doing right now is very inspiring. And, quote, and usually I just leave it at that because that's honestly very funny to me. Jay-Z saying what the indie rock movement is doing right now is very inspiring. That's objectively amusing. But I just went back and reread his full quote and it would appear, not for the first time and probably not for the last time either. It appears that I have done Jay-Z a disservice because what he says in full is really perceptive and fascinating. Jay-Z calls Grizzly Bear an incredible band. Then he says, quote, the thing I want to say to everyone, I hope this happens because it will push rap, it will push hip-hop to go even further. What the indie rock movement is doing right now is very inspiring. It felt like us in the beginning. These concerts, they're not on the radio. No one hears about them and there's 12,000 people in attendance. And the music that they're making and the connection they're making to people is really inspiring. So I hope that they have a run where they push hip-hop back a little bit. So it will force hip-hop to fight to make better music because it can happen. Because that's what rap did to rock. When rock was the dominant force in music, rap came and said, y'all got to sit down for a minute. This is our time and we've had a stranglehold on music since then. So I hope indie rock pushes rap back a bit because it will force people to make great music for the sake of making great music. And quote, what Jay-Z wants is a worthy adversary, genre wise. Jay-Z has observed, correctly, that here in 2009, hip-hop broadly has dominated popular music, both chart-wise and influence-wise for a solid decade now, two solid decades. When's the last time rock of any sort was the consistently commercially and culturally dominant style of popular music? Nirvana's never mind in 1991. Green days, dukey in 1994. Lincoln Park, let's not get into it. But deep into the 2000s, certainly there's no contest. Even when the strokes are at their absolute apex, even when rock is back, and New York is back, and rock and roll is cool again, the strokes do not have a number one record. The strokes do not have a number one song. The strokes in fact have exactly one song that ever charted on the Billboard Hot 100, and that would be their 2005 song Juice Box, which charted for exactly one week at number 98. But now Jay-Z standing in the Williamsburg Waterfront VIP tent in 2009, vibing intensely to grizzly bear amongst many thousands of young people who are rollicking down slip and slides and pooping in one another's handbags and so forth. And Jay-Z wonders if Indy Rock quote unquote can finally challenge hip hop's cultural supremacy. If only to give hip hop some fresh motivation. And that ain't going to happen. Honestly, or ain't going to happen at Jay-Z's preferred scale. Grizzly bear, dirty projectors, animal collective, etc. This late 2000s era of huge Brooklyn diaspora bands. These are beloved groundbreaking and important enduring artists, but they're not cover of Spin Magazine bands. They're not number one album bands. They're not Saturday Night Live bands. But who is anymore? Really. And here we have Vampire Weekend, a Spray Young quartet from Columbia University, debuting in 2007 with a handful of bizarrely and instantly phenomenal Ivy League afro pop songs available on the internet. Most notably this one called Oxford comma. Vampire Weekend. All right, we got Ezra Canig on lead vocals and guitar primarily. We got Rostem, Botmonglige on various keyboards and drums and whatnot. Plus he's the producer. We got Chris Baeow on bass. We got Chris Thompson on drums. Rostem will exit after the band's third album 2013's modern vampires of the city to focus on his own solo and production work. Though he'll still contribute to Vampire Weekend occasionally, otherwise Vampire Weekend's core lineup will hold. Forgive me, but the who gives a fuck in the opening line, who gives a fuck about an Oxford comma, is tremendously important. The crudeness amidst the sophistication, the swagger amidst the stylish stuffiness. The who gives a fuck is like when the cool substitute teacher flips their chair around and sits on it backward. Accept it's the actual cool version of that. If you love this song, you love this song instantly. You love this song within 30 seconds. If you are the disposition to hate this song too peppy, too jaunty, too clever, too tweey, too money. If you hate this song, you hate it within 30 seconds. But Oxford comma imprints itself on you instantly. All of Vampire Weekend's songs do from the beginning. There is a rampant, brazen, relentless catchiness to these songs that you can accept or reject, but you cannot ignore. In 2019, I wrote a long feature for the ringer looking back at Vampire Weekend's early years, talking to fellow rock critics who love them and fellow rock critics who kind of maybe hated them. And the great Charles Aaron, who has been magazine's music editor at the time, Charles says, quote, people I know who don't follow new bands, they would hear one Vampire Weekend song and just be like, what's that? That's catchy as shit. Who are those guys? And then they'd hear who they were and they'd be annoyed. Charles Aaron was one of my absolute favorite people I met in New York City and I hope he as well. And what you hear on this song Oxford comma, the jolly little keyboard riff, the compact and charming little crescendo of the chorus here, the jovial class warfare of lines like, why would you lie about how much coal you have? What you hear on this song harmonizes alarmingly well with what you don't hear. You don't hear guitar distortion. You don't hear angst, self-loathing, or even melancholy. You don't hear an Iota of 90s type underground concern about selling out or getting too big too fast or whining up on the wrong sort of TV shows or ad campaigns or magazine covers. You don't hear a concern with cool the way cool usually manifests itself in hot new rock bands, the sort of cool synonymous with aggression or danger or reticence. You don't hear hesitation. You don't hear philosophical hesitation and you don't hear musical or lyrical hesitation. Let me refer you here to a post from Ezra Canigs Pre-Vampire Weekend Era blog, which was called internet vibes, internet vibes.blogspot.com. It's still up. Let me refer you here to a post from Ezra Canigs Pre-Vampire Weekend Era blog, which was called internet vibes, internet vibes.blogspot.com. It's still up. Let me refer you to an internet vibes post from Saturday, February 11th, 2006, in which Ezra talks about his fascination with preppy clothes and grapples with a broader idea of authenticity. Or really, he valiantly refuses to waste any time grappling with the idea of authenticity. Quote, what is authentic for a guy like me? Fourth generation Ivy League, de-rassinated American Jew born on the Upper West side, raised in New Jersey to middle class post hippie parents with semi-anglophilic tendencies and a propensity to put on Eastern European accents and use obscure Yiddish phrases. The obvious answer is that I, like all of us, should be a truly postmodern consumer, taking the bits and pieces I like from various traditions and cultures, letting my aesthetic instincts be my only guide. In fact, all of my friends, even the children of immigrants, seem to be in the same boat. We are both disconnected from and connected to everything. Now we've transcended mere clothes. End quote. He also says, and yeah, wow, this is a much more succinct way to put it, quote, do not pop your collar if you don't sail. End quote. As your caning is about to sing the line, Lil John, he always tells the truth. And whatever your personal need, your reaction to that might be, you're going to remember that reaction for the rest of your life. And this is vampire weekends most remarkable quality. This band's superpower or the terrible source of this band's super villainy. They will shout out anybody. They will openly and confidently be inspired by anybody. They will let their aesthetic instincts be their guide. They will name their songs any old thing. This song, for example, and may the Lord not strike me down, please. This song is called Cape Cod Quassa Quassa. Yeah, forgive me again, but the disconcertingly charming jauntiness with which Ezra Canig sings the line. Do you want to fuck like you know, I do the way the F bomb as a verb flies out of his mouth. Do you want to fly the same way a toupee might fly off some poor guy's head while he's walking along the Hudson River in a stiff breeze. This guy singing, do you want to fly in that fashion is really something. Imagine any other popular rock band in history singing those words in that order. It sounds a lot different when you imagine like stone temple pilots singing it. The Jonas Brothers. I pick the Jonas Brothers at random. I don't know, dude. Cape Cod is a popular vacation spot in Massachusetts. Quassa Quassa is a dance style and a musical style originating in the democratic republic of the Congo. The phrase, the song title Cape Cod Quassa Quassa. That's what? A joke in a front, a provocation with early vampire weekend especially. I keep wanting to say and then I stop myself from saying that early vampire weekend songs are trolling. These four dudes from Columbia University describing their sound as upper west side Soweto on my space. One might reasonably characterize that as trolling. Soweto, that's in a historically musically vital township in South Africa. The upper west side. That's a semi cool neighborhood in Manhattan. But trolling implies insincereity. Trolling implies saying things you don't mean just to antagonize people. But when vampire weekend use the phrase upper west side Soweto, it's not that they don't mean it because the phrase itself doesn't actually mean anything. It's just two places in two different countries on two different continents getting bonked together the way a child might bonk two action figures together. But nonetheless, you get vampire weekends intent in bonking these two locations. These two cultures together. You can imagine the sound of upper west side Soweto in your head even if you don't want to. Or really, you don't even have to imagine it because this band unquestionably sounds like what that would sound like. Meanwhile, that's the other thing. Speaking of provocations that are too sincere to qualify as trolling it feels so unnatural. Peter Gabriel too. Even before vampire weekend starts getting tons of press and that happens pretty much immediately. Even before that vampire weekend are clearly fully aware of how they will be described and to whom they will be compared. This band sound is very 80s, very upbeat, very mass appeal pop, very thoughtful, very worldly. Think sincere of a little touristy rock stars dabbling and global sounds. This means Peter Gabriel. This means sting, perhaps, in stings, interminable loot phase. And this means, ah yes, Paul Simon. I can't explain this. But even on the very first publicly available vampire weekend songs, as Ricanig sings like a guy who knows his band's debut album is going to be compared to Paul Simon's Graceland like 500,000 times. And that Graceland comparison will be apt. Each of those 500,000 times. But that don't make it not funny. Vampire weekend blows up immediately. Vampire weekend is getting glowing reviews in the New York Times. A live review written by the great critic and friend of the podcast, Califace Sene, before the bands played more than a handful of prominent shows. Vampire weekends on the cover of Spin magazine, before they even put a full album out. That cover story is written by the ringer's own Andy Greenwald. And here is the funniest line in that story while Andy is interviewing Rustam. Quote, he requests that a discussion about his love for Wes Anderson be kept off the record. End quote, holy shit. Vampire weekend perform on Saturday Night Live, just a couple months after their self-titled debut album comes out in January 2008. The way Spin magazine's Charles Aaron put it to me was quote, things really broke right for them. But they're the kind of kids that things break right for. I like this song just fine, but I'm going to level with you and say that A-Punk has never been my favorite vampire weekend song. And maybe that's because I literally don't know any of these words. Or because this is not my favorite vampire weekend song, I've never bothered to learn any of the words. Or both. Joanna drove slowly into the city. The Hudson River all filled with snow. She spied the ring on his honors finger. Oh, oh, oh, that is a nifty first verse. If I do say so myself, you get a vivid sense of place and a vivid sense of character. Multiple characters in four lines and the fourth line is just oh, oh, oh. And while I maintain that oh, oh, oh, oh, is the most important and really only necessary part of A-Punk, lyrically, especially the hyperconfident good cheer with which Ezra sings oh, oh, oh, here on Saturday Night Live, having been introduced by Amy Adams. I do nonetheless greatly respect this song and the non oh, oh, oh, parts of this song. But I still got no idea what he's singing right here. Other than it's something about a lily white hand. Let's just assume he's singing about shoes. I want pieces to be from it. Yeah, I am. So no fish. She's seen nothing in the young men's wings. So oh, right. That's the other other thing. The shoes, the clothes, the fashion, the preppiness, the button down shirts, the sweaters, the suits, the staunch refusal to be a t-shirt and jeans band. Rostum on SNL is wearing a genuinely majestic scarf. This scarf is glorious and also ginormous. It is a Lenny Kravitz scale scarf. If that means anything to you and I hope it does. In Elizabeth Goodman's 2017 book Meet Me in the Bathroom, rebirth in a rock and roll in New York City, 2001 to 2011. Ezra says quote, when we first started getting press, I felt the most excited when I'd see people describe the music as preppy because I loved the fact that we were getting people to have synesthesia. It doesn't actually make any sense to describe music as preppy, but suddenly people were describing it as if preppy had been a genre for the past 40 years. I especially loved it when people would describe us on stage and misidentify what we were wearing. They'd be like taking the stage and sweaters and polo shirts on a night where nobody is wearing a sweater or polo shirt. I started to feel like, damn, we're really building something. We're getting people to see things. End quote, I am not hallucinating Rostum's Lenny Kravitz scarf. I assure you, I do get why A-Ponk is the song from the first self titled Vampire Weekend Record that hit the hardest. That opening guitar riff is extra immediately super catchy. That guitar sounds like a house party, like the kind of modest run of the mill collegiate house party Vampire Weekend were presumably playing at like 15 minutes ago before everything broke right for them. A-Ponk is ostensibly a punk song. It is two minutes and 17 seconds long. It is suitable for pogoing or allying. It sounds like the earworm jingle for the ubiquitous TV ads for the Richard Sarah Skate Park. But on SNL at least, it's a punk song with an honest-to-god string quartet breakdown in the middle of it. And even here, in the first Vampire Weekend Records, shortest and sweetest and simplest and least sociologically and musically freighted pop song, there is a breezy mix of high and low culture, a sense of styles, eras, worldviews, lifestyles, clashing. It is wild to me now. Truly, to think about how much discourse this band generated in 2008, Ivy League discourse, cultural appropriation discourse, a racial discourse, talking to the telegraph in 2010, Ezra says, quote, when Obama came to power, there was a lot of talk about a post-racial America. It's something that we've had to think and talk about a lot, even when people define us, as one writer did, as the whitest band in the world, despite the specific ethnicities of our band. End quote. Rostom is Iranian-American, Ezra is of Hungarian-Jewish descent. And I personally read tens of thousands of words of that discourse, and I have contributed, directly or indirectly, many thousands of words myself, these words included. And yet, even when I'm deeply happily mired in that discourse, my favorite part of A Punk is still when they go A-A-A-A. But yeah, this band drove some people up the wall. As the music editor, at the village voice at the time, I made the bizarre and unnecessary, but also kind of heroic and sexy decision to publish two reviews of the first vampire weekend record, one generally positive review written by the great Mike Powell, and one generally negative review written by the great Julianne Escobito Shepard. Just to clarify, I am extremely pro vampire weekend and pro this first record, especially. And my argument for the greatness of this record boils down to one line on a one song. The song is called Campus. Of course it is, and this is the line. Look, I understand genuinely why someone, why anyone would find this sort of thing annoying, just the ease, the exceedingly collegiate and sucessions of walk to class in front of ya, spill kefir on your kefir. The way he pronounces in front of ya, the way he bonks the words, kefir and kefir together, like more toys, he just pulled out of the toy box. But in my experience, it makes you want to root for this guy. Even if he carries himself with the self assurance of someone who doesn't need anybody else rooting for him. And maybe it's just a thrill I get from rooting for a winner because vampire weekend comes the closest to embodying Jay Z's ideal of the indie rock movement. I would not quite say vampire weekend pushes back against hip hop writ large, or that indie rock threatens hip hop supremacy in any concrete way. But vampire weekend second album, Contra, comes out in 2010 and hits number one on the Billboard album chart and gives this band what a lot of indie rock buzz bands never quite get. A sustainable career. A career varied and sustainable enough that I can take my teenage sons to see vampire weekend almost 20 years into that career. And my sons and Bob along politely to all the old stuff when really all they want to hear is one song. My kids want to hear the vampire weekend song Harmony Hall from their 2019 album Father of the Bride. This is now my favorite vampire weekend song too. And what a relief it is to me truly that all my old vampire weekend knowledge all the discourse all the I was there are can of my youth my New York City years all of that is kind of obsolete now or at least besides the point to them. To my boys, this is a great song by a band they'd previously never heard of and their lack of context doesn't matter. Harmony Hall as a song seems to describe surviving in a world I am not exactly psyched to be leaving for my children. If you catch my drift, but this song's fundamental sweetness it's bounciness it's hard fought optimism that is familiar to me. And even more useful to me now than it was back when this band was brand new and I thought 30 was old. Ezra doesn't sound as confidently lately I've noticed but at my kids behest I have played Harmony Hall in the car 500,000 times or so and that line I don't want to live like this but I don't want to die hits me every time all I want now is for my kids to get to go off somewhere and revel in their own coolness and go somewhere where they can say I missed it but also I was there 20 30 40 50 years later and in this hopefully not too idealistic fantasy of mine I cannot think of a better band to provide the soundtrack as I watch my kids hop their collars and set sail. We are delighted to welcome Chris Deville a great Ohioan he is the long time managing editor at Stereo Gum and the author of the fantastic new book such great heights colon the complete cultural history of the Indiraq explosion out this coming Tuesday I believe Chris welcome Rob I'm so excited to get bleeped out for saying that you would be the first guest ever get bleeped out and that would be a great honor and I would be delighted for you to receive that honor it had never occurred to me that that might happen but I'm glad it's you I'm so glad it's you thanks a lot of sense um congratulations on the book I would not read the colon into the title of just anyone's book so I hope you take that as the honor that I intended to be yeah I feel very honored yes thank you you don't have to say okay your your book starts out in the 90s I would say it spends most of its time in the 2000s but it pushes deep into the 2010s as well and so just to start off where do you see vampire weekends into in the overall arc of the Indiraq explosion like is it overstating it to see these guys is you know one of the high points both commercially and you know critically I don't think that's overstating it at all uh to me their body of work is one of the strongest of their generation and you know like if you listen back to some music from the late 2000s early 2010s you can just kind of cringe but their character what holds up and in terms of a commercial breakthrough they were really in the culture you know their albums were debuting at number one they have celebrities and their music videos and I always remember they presented an award to one direction at the VMAs on the same night as the Miley Cyrus Robin Thick foam finger incident that's right yeah the trap trap lord in stores now yeah so I think that just speaks to how they uh speaks to how they fit into the book and the Indiraq explosion that was really reaching its peak around the time they were blowing up that I feel like they were kind of the perfect band to capitalize on the blogs and the whole blog star making system because you know they they were like they were kind of pandering to hipsters in some ways but at the same like the first song they ever released was a cover of exit music for stereo gums okay computer tribute album uh fact that we had started them like to point out uh but at the same time like the kids at the you know the the frat party who just wanted something lighthearted and upbeat uh they're you know they're catering to them too a punk is basically like a scaw song um and I mean like as far as how they factor it they factor into the book quite a bit because like you said the book goes well into the 2010s and when you move through like contra and modern vampires they become emblematic of the shift towards indie bands incorporating more of these explicitly non rock elements into their songs like I think about the synths and the samples on run or like the dance hall beat on diplomats son or doing a rap remix of step that was kind of the wave at the time and then by the time you get to the aftermath of that album Ezra is talking about how the idea of a rock band has become unfashionable and they prefer to think of vampire weekend as a recording project uh and so yeah uh that they they kind of are the arc of the book to a certain extent right and what I remember about them is they got so huge so fast right like there's always overnight successes or just bands that seem to come out of nowhere but like you know getting reviewed in the New York Times you know off like a couple songs available on the internet they're on the cover of spin before the albums out there on snl right after the albums out as you say is that just down to how catchy the songs are and their ability to sort of pander to everybody like is it surprising to you that this is the band that just really did seem to blow up overnight and stay blown up it's not surprising that they would get all the critical like hosanna's because they were like they're doing the whole there are many layers of meaning and you know the critics and the hipsters they want the complexity and the contradiction and putting little John and Venaton and Daram Sala all in the same song but like I think they they were really benefiting from kind of a crescendo in the blog hype situation like you wrote that piece for ringer about how they were like the last indie buzz band to break through and they kind of got in right before all the taste makers started caring more about rap and R&B and the blogs were kind of chilled off by streaming and social media so like uh you know they kind of arrived at just the right time they were just the right band just the right time and kind of slipped in uh just before the door closed yeah I think if I remember correctly you're a little younger than me you were just a couple years out of college when the first vampire weekend record came out like were you plugged in to sort of the critical discourse about them all these arguments about you know cultural appropriation upper what upper west side Soweto stuff like that like were you reading a lot about them and thinking really hard about them or was this just like a fun band with some cool tunes you know and you don't really have to dig any deeper than that yet because it's not your job well I know it was my job and I did have the baggage because like I was very tuned in I was working at Columbus alive at the time one of the weekly newspapers here which you know sadly is gone like the rest of the weekly newspapers uh and uh I was loading up pitchfork every day and clicking around the blogs and reading articles by you at the village voice and you know I was I was very tuned into the critical discourse and and fancied myself to be a part of it so yeah I was definitely engaging with vampire weekend on that level from the very start and I'd be curious to see like what my reaction to them would have been if I didn't bring so much context into it like right right exactly read about before I ever heard them and it definitely like colored the way that I approach their music no I totally agree they're one of these bands that I kind of wish I could you know visit an alternate universe why I don't come do it with any baggage you know and I just understand like this person loves them and this person hates them and they both have good reasons and they're fighting you know on message boards or whatever like all the critical noise in my head again I'm just a handful of songs you know just basically Oxford Common a couple others you know and there's suddenly you know hundreds of thousands of words online for me to digest professionally you know I I'd like to think that doesn't color the way I hear just the music but I don't think that's really the way music works I think I've always had all this discourse in the back of my head and it would be nice just for 10 seconds to not have it you know what I'm saying yeah definitely although I mean looking I love the discourse well sure we all do we all claimed and I love the discourse but we all secretly love the discourse you know and so it's it's a love hate thing for sure absolutely how do you think about that discourse now like almost 20 years later right like it can't help but feel a little quaint to me that in 2008 you know we all had time to argue about this and this seemed like one of you know the most pernicious and unpleasant things going on in the world that we had a band of Ivy Leaguers doing like Afro Pop right it does it feels a little weird to me what a what a hot ticket issue this band was at the beginning it seems like we should have had other stuff on our mind maybe it is kind of bizarre that it's set off so many alarms but like I don't know people are so protective of of their music scenes and you know people also are very interested in reasons to get angry uh I don't know I mean it doesn't the extent of it and the intensity of it is what kind of blows the mind but like I feel like if they were a new band now there would still be the reaction that they got would be somewhat similar to the reaction that they get now like they're just such a unique artifact like they the way that they carry themselves uh and you know the way they present themselves it stands out and it is kind of softly confrontational in terms of right and I mean they knew what they were doing they're very consciously positioned themselves in a certain way to stand out yeah softly confrontational is a great way to put it right because I it's not it's not trolling right like they're not yeah they're not it's not insincere but they know what they're doing they know that this is going to bother people in a way that's also going to get attention and also attract people you know there's a rhinus and a knowingness to it like they know how to kick up a fuss like Ezra was a blogger you know these these are people who know how to be online and to stoke conversation online you know occasionally among people who come to hate them you know they know what they're doing yeah and you mentioned when we were emailing uh you mentioned like the the fashion aspect of that too like the the uh preppy qualities and it's like I think that that does matter to a certain extent too like it's yeah it's popular music and so therefore it's show business and image does factor in it's like it's mainly when you're talking about appreciating music it is mainly about the sounds coming out of the speakers but it's not only about that and like right uh I think about you know the way a band looks affects whether you even choose to engage and uh right then there's beyond that there's like uh in terms of music fandom like that's another thing that I write about in in the book a lot is kind of a thread throughout the book is music fandom as a way to construct your identity like not just around the things that you enjoy listening to but the things that you know the that reflects how you want to present yourself to the world so like for them to come along in 2007 2008 like in these polo shirts looking more like the john mayor fans at my high school and be heralded as a vanguard of indie rock it does kind of scramble your brain of course yeah and as you write you know you're you're defining yourself as much by the things you hate as the things you love right and I think vampire weekend we're very useful to people as like the outer boundary like I love vampire weekend is one identity I hate vampire weekend is another you know just as distinct identity I can almost picture the hate person before the love person right like right if you're going to define yourself in opposition to one band from this era I think vampire weekend is it's a pretty vivid you know foil for you personally yeah absolutely you talk late in the book you know the first two albums are great but you talk late in the book about modern vampires of the city you know their third record from 2013 and you call it one of the most important records of your lifetime you know it's like a milestone in my own transition to full fledged adulthood you know as you say like I think this book this bands arc in this bands catalog sort of mirrors the way you talk about the indie rock explosion as a whole like what is it about this record in this era and the overall you know album to album transition of vampire weekend that that resonates with you I mean I knew pretty much right away that I loved the album it was kind of like the album that unlocked this band for me in a way like I had I had listened to the first couple albums and liked them and I you know I went to see them a couple of times like I was kind of a casual fan but like I had this experience listening to modern vampires right after it came out I was covering the hangout festival a music festival in Alabama on the beach and I had to drive a rental car along the Gulf Coast to get there and so I'm just listening to modern vampires of the city having this like serene kind of you know just one of those special listens to an album that you'll have sometimes and so I pretty much immediately knew that I was like ooh this I think I'm becoming a much bigger vampire weekend fan this album cycle but there were other aspects of it that made it important to me like for one thing my as much as I like indie rock my wife doesn't really care about indie rock and this is like one of the only indie albums that she actually enjoys so it's kind of like a foundational record of our household but then there was the aspect of like it came out right before I turned 30 and you know I'm only I'm a few months older than Ezra so like he's wrestling with the same idea as it kind of just hit me right where I was at in terms of feeling like my youth was over and my clock was ticking and plus I always am extra interested when artists I like start wrestling with like spiritual existential religious type questions and I know I wrote this year end essay in 2013 about modern vampires of the city and Jesus that I have not gone back and read for a while and I'm kind of afraid to go back and read it now but you know drawing drawing parallels between my two favorite albums of 2013 at the time um so anyway yeah it it was very important now I'm for me that was it's so funny because I went and looked at the Paz and Jop year end critics chart for 2013 and number one is Jesus and number two is modern vampires of the city and I was like well that's funny those are two very different head spaces you know to occupy and even consider occupying both simultaneously is very funny to me I think my point with the at peace was something about how they were both like freaking out about the onset of new adulthood sure right you know obviously Kanye's way of freaking out was quite different from Ezra's but there is no where the hell is my damn kursat moment on the modern vampires record you mentioned the spiritual part and I my favorite song off that record and my favorite vampire weekend song still is Yahay you know which is it's really lovely but kind of an intense song you know where Ezra who's Jewish of course is talking either about or to God you know like he's singing it seems to me anyway singing directly to God it's almost like an argument and like you've written really beautifully both in the book and elsewhere about you know growing up in an evangelical household and how your your life is a Christian and your life is a rock critic intersect like I wondered what you made of that song Yahay in particular you know and this thread through the whole modern vampires album as you say of like grappling with spirituality it's interesting because like Ezra always is obviously you know filling up his songs with all these references kind of these eclectic references to different geography different cultures different pop culture moments and I felt like on that album there are still some of that going on like you know you listen to step and he's he's quoting souls of mischief and then talking about modest mouse and it's sort of the juxtaposition thing is still happening but like the the spiritual stuff on that album it doesn't come off to me as like clever like it's one of the times when I feel like he is really like honestly wrestling with those things like there there are times when it's just like oh well you know look at this trick that I pulled off I wrote this clever little song with this clever little references and it's like I don't really see that happening when he's like if it feels like he is getting kind of raw on Yahay and like yeah you know bringing some like legit concerns before God and you know obviously like you said that's something that that kind of courses through the whole album and got unbelievers and other stuff and so yeah I mean that's probably one of the reasons I like it because I do I appreciate Ezra as like the clever guy and I appreciate the eclecticism and the sophistication and the layers but like there was something very human about that album and about the way that he approached those subjects that doesn't necessarily touch everything he writes right and I think that continues like I think part of the reason that vampire weekend continues to resonate you know it was 2019 is father the bride right and like the one vampire weekend song my kids you know my teenagers now latched on to his harmony hall you know which I think is in that same vein it is it's it's not it's not that it's not clever but it's less about cleverness for its own sake there's more vulnerability more humanness to it I don't want to live like this but I don't want to die like I that seems like a pivot like a step like an evolution that he took as a songwriter and the band took as a band that isn't that's not necessarily going to happen you know there are plenty of bands great bands and doing bands you know that don't evolve you know who don't get to that phase of seeming like an older mature more thoughtful version of themselves and it's very cool that vampire weekend figured out how to kind of do that yeah and I I feel like you're right that I feel like father the bride has a really good balance of of that like genuine searching and kind of like real life existential crisis mixed in with with the winking side of things yeah you talk a lot in the book about you know like the importance of the OC you know the TV show and all the syncs garden state etc. Gray's anatomy you talk about apple ads you know and just the way that this generation of musicians learn to love you know being on TV shows being in commercials you know doing things that we were all taught you could not do in the 90s and so a punk and holiday especially off-contra are like songs I love but songs that I am always going to associate with seeing them on TV ads like a billion times you know like there was that Colbert rapport thing where the vampire weekend and the black keys like did like some sort of fake game show with making fun of themselves for being in so many ads right like being you know very knowing and right about it but I wondered if all the commercialism you know if the selling out you know affected the way that you hear these songs or any of the empire weekends music or we all worried about this the whole time for nothing I mean I don't think it's like an antiquated thing to say that it like taints your experience of the music if a song appears in a commercial and gets that kind of overexposure like I mean I think that the politics like the scene politics around it definitely changed yeah because like people people just kind of came to tolerate that stuff because I think people understand more and more how hard it is to make a living in the music industry and I mean it's got it's only gotten harder since those songs were in commercials but like at the same time it's like you know I hear A Punk and Holiday and I think of the commercials they're you know that I'm able to if I'm in the flow of the album maybe lock in and kind of set that stuff aside but like it definitely like can recontextualize the song the same way that like a song appearing in a movie scene or something would and so like I think the idea of like being a sell out it's so interesting because how it's going away because some of it's by necessity but I think some of it's also probably opportunistic like you know the idea of like this indie music edging up towards the world of pop and pop like suddenly becoming kind of like the like the taboo that's being explored like ooh look we're an indie band that can yeah can go pop and we're you know we're not going to apologize about it like it was convenient that that was sort of the trendy critical line of thinking at the same time right when when it became maybe more of a necessity to get by yeah it's it's cool that we're trying to make money now it's it's very convenient for us and do I have this right that Ezra suggests on Twitter that I'm what's the path of the Beyoncé song oh man hold up I it's he's involved there somewhere and I don't know if it's in if he just suggests it or if he actually contributed it but he's sort of emblematic of that period where like father John Misty is invited to like try and write Beyoncé songs or whatever like that's another thing that was not thinkable you know in the 90s or particularly even when vampire we can start it but suddenly became a huge thing as you write you know by the end of the explosion yeah man hold up by Beyoncé is so interesting because like yeah you know it's you know it's built around yeah yeah yeah and it's created the concept came from Ezra he did tweet something and he was working with Diplo in the studio and thank god Diplo is involved yeah that's a huge relief to me actually I don't I don't remember I think that is the the Beyoncé song that father John Misty also worked on if I remember correctly so it's just like such a fascinating artifact along with like right maybe four or five seconds I think that that Rihanna Kanye poem McCartney song has Dave Longstrith from dirty projectors in the credits and you can totally hear it like in the bridge of the song like it just goes from being you know a few chords to like these you know bizarre melodies tangled in the you know jazz chords and you can hear that oh that's the part Dave Longstrith wrote yeah what a time to be alive to wrap up I think you've already answered this question but I'm going to ask it anyway like is vampire weekend just dad rock now and is that such a bad thing if they are yeah I mean I think they got to be I know from a practical standpoint I know you you told me you told your you took your kids to see them and I actually took my daughter to see them in since now you last year because my wife couldn't make it but uh so that in the objective sense I guess that makes them dad rock but I think there's two dimensions to that to think about like one is just that like all of that sort of millennial indie rock as you know millennials and you know excenials age into uh into parenthood then you yeah basically anything that that dads like when they were young when they become dads you know I think is dad rock by default but uh yeah there's also like with with father of the bride it was so interesting they they had been they had been so much a part of that wave of the indie bands going pop and they just pivoted in the other direction with father of the bride and kind of embraced that vaguely jam bandy type sound and uh like Ezra like apparently just got into fish in the dead a lot and they were doing the whole sandals thing like it just they kind of steer directly into the dad rock thing uh and maybe that's just an example of you know they're always kind of zigging where people expect them to zag but yeah I think as as someone who's who's been a dad for a while now I've kind of let go of having any kind of shame about the term dad rock and I'm like hell yeah dad rock by the way father of the bride super underrated I think it's everybody's good as modern vampires I think that it might there are definitely days when it's my favorite vampire weekend album and the people who felt like it was a misstep or like not as good as the first three albums are totally wrong I need to get that on the record I mean it's already I'm already on the record writing it many many times at stereo and on social media but I just you know audio I need to get it on the record. It's another medium it's a it means a totally different thing and I agree with you actually it's my kids favorite you know the only vampire weekend record they really know or care about like even at the show the songs that they picked out and wanted to hear in the car after we're all we're all father the brother the song called sympathy um and I so there yeah I don't know I'm not I'm wondering if they're responding specifically to the jam band aspect to the dad rock aspect what it is about that record specifically that's more appealing to them even than a punk even then you know step I I would be curious to know what makes that record interesting to teenagers earliest my teenagers but I'm happy to to do it now it's here on this show with your help that it's it's everybody is good is anything else I've done oh yeah join the movie oh yeah this has been fantastic Chris thanks so much it congrats on the book yeah thank you so much thanks very much to our guest this week Chris Deville thanks as always to our producers Olivia Creary Christopher Sutton and Justin Sales and thanks very much to you for listening and now let's all go listen to a punk by vampire week thanks a lot