The Catfish in the Room: Addressing Controversy & Social Media with Elle Bee (Part 2)

Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Kate and Ty Break It Down and we are back with part two of our conversation with LB. So like how do you help yourself with the burnout or like do you have strict boundaries for yourself like I only do it from you know this time to this time but then what happens if something crazy blows up and you have to report on it. Yeah, well my schedule is built around like my kids, my family. So like I'll I might be out there at nine o'clock at night, you know, but but it's very much around my kids. So what I'm it's my job. So I have to be consistent with it as well and they have to know like okay if mama is out there let mama work. But when I'm not working, I'm not working like I try not to be working like I have moderators and if anything pops off they'll message me like oh this is going on. But like that's nice. That's nice. And once I walk out, I try to walk out. Good. I'm not going to talk about that again until I go back out there and my moderators are just really good about like if something pops off they let me know that way I don't have to like be on my phone. Yeah, my son had a jujitsu tournament last weekend and we it was in Gonzalez which is like four hours away from us. So we went there and we were there all day and like you know something happened to my moderator and it was like hey this happened. So I took a minute. My son wasn't fighting or I took a minute and I was like oh let me make a pose. Make a pose. Right. Back to my life. So yeah and I just it's just work. Like it's just back when I worked in finance once I walked out the door. That's it. That's it. You know when I go back out there. So that's like the people that I cover like some of them is like oh she's so obsessed with me and I'm like I'm just thinking about you while I'm posting about you babe. I'm like after that it's done and over with right now. I clock out. Yeah. Like after I make this pose I'm going to go see what Janelle's up to. Just see if there's anything I go see what this person's up to. Just see if there's anything I can put. I'm not. I promise you like this is just because it's my job. But yeah it is funny because it went from like an interest. I was watching TV mom and watching shows and then it did switch to a job. If the show comes back on I'm definitely going to watch. I'm still going to watch and I do watch y'all's when you go live. Like I watch. If there's anything worth me like oh clip Kate saying this or clip Tass saying this. The video. So part of its interest in work kind of. It's still interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. Like I would not cover a topic that did not interest me. Right. Right. I'm not going to cover a show that I really don't watch. I really like. I mean. Exactly. Exactly. If I watch it and it's not entertaining I'm going to go not cover this. Let me find something. You know what I'm saying. So I mean it's still it is still fun to me. It is work and when I walk out of the door I try to walk out the door and my module they'll let me know if something's happening. They have my personal phone number. Good. That's good. So they're like this is happening. You know. Yeah. It's almost like you're like almost like having an assistant. They can let you know. Yeah. But that's important because if people are getting into this world like you need help. You can't. Oh God. I mean I have a lot of writers watching stuff for you. I wouldn't have to be watching 24. Yeah. You have to be. Yeah. Constantly on the forums and reading the pages and. Oh gosh. You know what I mean. Which is exhausting and draining. What's so cool too though is I have long time followers that like my emails like in the description box of it and they'll email me. Oh cool. Nice. I have a handful of people that like they stay on top of the articles and they're like hey this is like they actually just put this outer like Hollywood gossip just put this outer. TMZ just put this out. Oh that's cool. So yeah. And now when you get if you get exclusive information or someone that's telling you that is exclusive. How do you, how do you like that these source? How do you like that? The stories you're going to share. Some of the people that's come out to me as people I knew, like I knew they knew this person. Okay, got it. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, it was they'll send me text messages. Like if it's why that I don't know, like for sure, like get on the phone with them, like let's get a bit like a face. I'm called like tell me what's going on. Like how do you know this? Like when Mama June's son and little Josh got into an accident, oh, last year, whatever, like, they sent me pictures of the accident. They were there, you know, here's pictures. So they were like, I broke that story. Like TMZ, but like found it out after I posted, you know, because someone was there. Yeah. So you're so well, that's how you've edited your source was right there. They were right there. Yeah, that was how you've edited it. Yeah, they were sending me pictures. They're like, here it is, you know, and they explained to me why they were there and who they, who they were. And I was like, okay, I'm like, obviously check another outlet. So he's going to be sure that he's been an accident because I'm like making sure they didn't steal it from an outlet that's already posted. So there's research you have to do on top of. Yeah, if they send me pictures of something that's happened and they say they're there pictures because they're there, let me make sure that they're not posted somewhere else. And this is somebody lying to me. You know what I'm saying? But like in the case of like, I had somebody reach out to me regarding y'all and they just knew information. They knew addresses. Pete, you know what I'm saying? Like, people, schools and things that and I was like, Oh, wow, I gave that one person your email or I gave you their email. Oh, do you remember? I'm talking about? Okay. I don't remember why don't I? I don't know. It was a person that knew information about Oh, yeah. And I gave Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's you. I gave you that. Yeah, I gave you their email because they're like, I can verify this. I got no this information and I'm like, I don't know that information though. Right. So how can I verify it? Yes. You know, but yeah, what's ironic though is a lot of people like I knew they knew like it was people that right right here. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't think people understand that that takes an extra step. You have to you're doing extra steps to make sure before you're on it. Yeah. Legit or at least so you're the better the best of your understanding. You know what I mean? That unfortunately we do live in a day and age though to where you can find addresses you can find. That's why it's more difficult to like make sure and verify and certain stuff. I think that's part of the content creation world. That's like it's it starts getting messy when you're not verifying your sources or not vetting the information. Yeah. And then it turns into now you're just spreading literally false information. That's not true. And one thing that I still say is you know, like, Oh, this came from a source. Take it for you want. Right. Yeah. So you want to source that I was told, right? Take it for you want. I still never tell people like this is it. Like this is the truth. Right. This is what I was told. This is what they sent me. This is what they said. Mm hmm. I you know, like I'll say like I believe them because I know who they are, but you guys can take it for what you want. Right. Which is important. Yeah, you're kind of leaving it out there. Hey, listen, I'm not trying to convince somebody. Right. This is happening. Yeah. Like here's the information. I believe it's happening. Yeah. What do you think, you know, right? Have a conversation about it. Yeah. Yeah. Has there ever been a time during this whole time of you doing this for work that you ever just wanted to quit? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And do you think that comes from the burnout or this like where do you think that comes from? Like, yeah. And when you get hate from like, like Amber Portwood has come at me before and she can tell, you know, God, like she'll eat you to shreds, you know, she's done videos, which I've been nice to her. I mean, but whatever. Like, yeah, she's come at me like not too long ago, like another person that I covered, like she came for me. All of her people were coming for me. Yeah. So you kind of experience that a little bit, a sliver of what we go through a little bit like, Oh my God, like, you know, it's difficult when you have, you know, 20,000 people. Yeah. Coming at you. Right. Or it's one person that says something that all their people are rushing over to say something. Yeah. So I was like, when I think of content creators, I always wonder, like, could you be in the flipped position of this? Like, could you, could, like, could you understand how hard it would be to be in the on the receiving end? To get hate and stuff. And yeah, you know, if you switch places with us and got all, you know what I mean? I mean, I definitely wouldn't. I've never gotten it on the level that you guys have, you know, but I've gotten it some like, this happened not too long, which I wanted to quit because I've worked really hard and it wasn't paying off. Like I wasn't making much money in it. And, you know, and it's like, God, is it even worth it? Should I get a regular nine to five jobs? So there's been times that that's happened. Yeah. But it's also came with me covering someone and then them not liking the way that I covered. So they're, they're attacking me and they're making videos about me. And then all of their people. And what's worse is when they're lying in their videos. Oh, yeah. Because this happened to me recently, like I put something out about, about somebody, about a celebrity, put it out with court documents to back it up. Oh, like this is what happened. And then she gets on a video saying, this is not true. That did not happen. And she's showing a report to that doesn't list it. And so when I saw her video, I go back into the court records. I'm like, wait, what? Did they drop it? Because this is what it was. I go back to the court records. All the records on the court website is still saying this. And I'm like, so that's weird. This is weird. Yeah. So I'm like, I don't know if she just got like, I don't know. Like I don't know what she got, you know. So people asking me about it. And I was like, listen, I don't know, but she needs to call them because it says that she got this charge. So she needs to call them, you know, and then she had court the other day and I followed up with what happened with court and I made a video and people still say, and I showed like what it said on the court, like on the docket, like what her charge was. And she received probation for this and a 30 day suspended sentence. And it's like she ain't gonna receive that for just running a damn stop sign. You know, like clearly something else happened to happen here. But people's on my video where I show what like what happened, the outcome, people's like, she's already adjusted. You're lying. And I'm like, sure, I'm just lying. Right. Like first of all, information act, you can literally look up anything. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And two, like if I do a video about this person and I say they got a ticket, why is me saying that they were charged with something additional going to get any more traffic than me just saying they got the ticket. Right. I don't have to add anything into it. Like if my tick tag video, if I just say, Oh, this celebrity cited charge, whatever. I didn't say charged for, you know, hitting somebody causing bodily injury on the front of it. You guys saw that y'all came and watched. So what did that little detail? How did that add so many more? I didn't have to lie. Like, right, right. You're the lie. Yeah, I could put the truth out and it's going to get the views just as well as if I lied. You know what I'm saying? So to me, it doesn't make any sense why anybody would even think that I would add that detail. That's not true. Yeah. Right. Like why would I add that? I could just say the truth. At Marathon gas stations, every stop is the start of fun. Like the awesome fuel savings you can get with marathon rewards. Join marathon rewards today and start earning rewards on every gallon of gas. You can redeem rewards at any time, saving up to $1 per gallon. And don't forget marathon stations are packed with all the conveniences you need to stock up and live life on the go marathon, where fun runs on full available at participating marathon locations, terms and conditions apply. See marathon rewards.com for details. I feel like we asked you a lot of our good questions, but I wanted to like flip the script a little bit. I know this is our show. Yeah, get your phone out. But I wanted to flip the script and see if you had any questions for Ty and I. Okay, so I watched y'all's 16 and pregnant episode this morning. Yeah. So I'm going to bring it way back a little bit for a minute. How long had YouTube been together when you found out that you were pregnant? What was y'all's initial reaction? Call me together for? Yeah, like how long? Almost three years. Yeah. You weren't on birth control. No. No. Okay. No. Did y'all's parents know that y'all were sexually active at the time that you got pregnant? Yes. Okay. Okay. They did. Yes. They did. Cause one of our friends, oh, one of my like good friends, I thought I told my mom when I was at school, told my mom, Erno, we were at home and you were upstairs. I was, I was, I was, I was jumped out. I almost jumped out the second story window. I was about, listen, because you know her mom is scary. Yeah. And I worked a lot to build like, the first time you met her dude and you kicked her dog. I'm over here and about that. Yeah. But yeah, no. Yeah. They knew. Yeah. They knew. Yeah. Cause and they still didn't try to like unity, bone breast control, like no, did you ever tell you like use protection or anything like that? She just said you better be safe. Oh, and in my head, in my head, I'm like, it's only one person. Yeah. About to be safe. But like, and it's weird. I would think if I was y'all's age and my parents knew I was having sex and said, be safe. I would think STD. So I was like, I'm only one person. It's fine. Like I'm always sleeping with her. Right. So I would even, and I feel like at that young of an age, I remember the feeling of, you feel like you're invincible. Like, yeah. You know what I mean when you're that young, right? Like, and I really don't like it happens to everybody else, but I didn't, it didn't gonna happen. I thought the same thing. You know what I mean? Like you really do. You're just not, you're young. Makes sense though, because now I look back at no one's, I would never just let my kids say, Hey, by the way, I'm such an actor. And I go, okay, well better make sure you're safe. And there's what, like I'd be like, we're going to the doctor or you know what I mean? Like, so I think, I think our generation, like our parents back then, they just, they just weren't really. Yeah. How to talk about it. I don't know. Yeah. They didn't want to listen. My mind never talked to me about any, any. I was all girls. So I was going through all my shit, puberty and stuff. When I was a kid, I was like, I was by myself. You know what I'm saying? I know. I know. So I mean, like, I feel like that's one thing that our generation, I think is doing a little differently. Yeah. Yeah. Because we know this, you know, Nova's 11 and we've had the conversation about like sex and protection and all the things she's knows our story front and back, you know, right? Yeah. You know, what we went through and stuff. And she's smart. She already says, oh, she's like, no, she's like, as soon as I even have their, a feeling, she's like, we'll be talking. And I'm like, that's right. Like we're more, I feel like, you know, we're, I, we're definitely more open 100%. I am too, because I was a team mom. So I mean, with my son, I'm like, talk to your dad. Right. Yes. But my daughter, like me and her, you know, we talk about, I think I'm good with my girls, but their dad's got to handle the boys because I pay nothing wrong with that. I don't think it's uncomfortable for me with the guys. I don't know. Okay. Who did y'all tell first? Which parent and what were their reactions? Well, we didn't have a choice. I didn't have a choice. So what happened was is we just moved my mom, we just moved into this trailer park. And so I was like, I was there. I don't know where they, my mom was going to work and stuff. I was there cleaning the bathroom there. And I had the doors closed and stuff. And I was like standing in the shower and I was just spraying all the walls and cleaning all the walls down. And after that happened, I remember I just felt like so sick. And I was like, maybe did I like poison myself with like all these fumes and stuff? Like I was like, I felt so nauseous. And then the sick feeling lasted for like three days. And my mom was like, I'm going to take you to the hospital. Like, you know, what if it's the flu or you have like a sickness or something? And I was like, cause I remember like deathly ill, like laying on the floor and my great-grandma Lee brought over like Gatorade and stuff. And I was like, all right, mom, yes, that's fine. Like let's go to the hospital. And so you didn't have like, I mean, you thought you were invisible. So you didn't even think like, Oh, maybe I'm pregnant. Not at all. I thought either I poisoned myself from smelling all these damn fumes that I was using. Cause I had all the doors closed and I was like in the shower with the door. Like who cleans like idiot? Anyways, a 16 year old. Yeah, exactly. And so she said, we're going to go to the hospital. You know, maybe something else is going on. So should they take me to the hospital? And of course there they're like, well, when was your last menstrual cycle? Do you think you're pregnant? I'm like, no, I'm not pregnant. Like I'm just sick, you know, something's going on. And it's like, yeah, it's protocol. Yeah, right. Right. Especially cause I have age, have periods and stuff. And so I'm sitting there, got, you know, IVs and did all the stuff and the girl and the doctor comes in and she goes, well, she goes, there's no easy way for me to say this. And my mom's sitting right next to me and she's like, but you're, you're pregnant. And I was like, I remember in that moment, my mom was like actually very quiet. I was the one who was like, I got this rush of just anger and maybe it's like fear and anger combined, but I was just so angry. I was like, I need to get out of here. Who was you angry at? I don't even know the world, I guess myself. It was just, yeah, I was just like, I was just really mad. And I was like, I remember being like, I don't even want the rest of this stupid IV fluids, like get me out of here. I need to leave. So we get in the car and we leave. And my mom's basically just saying things like, it's all right, you know, where's Tyler at? And I was like, I don't know, mom, I don't know. You know, and then I, and she was like, well, can you find where he's at right now? And of course I did cell phones. Right. Right. Right. You're poor. Yeah. But of course I knew him. Like he's probably here or here. Yeah. And so we went to my, we drove by my friend, Brittany's house. And then what? And then, okay, so that, no, then I, you got to hold me somehow with someone's phone and was like, oh, I'm going to come pick you up. We got to talk and I was like, oh my God, shit. Yeah. Great. So I'm thinking like we're going to break up or something. I don't know what the fuck I was thinking. What did I do? Yeah. And then I was upstairs in her little apartment. And I saw the car pull up and you were in there in the backseat looking like just down and I was like, what the hell is going on? And that's when I went downstairs and didn't somebody like somebody tell you that we were afraid to open the ocean. Probably pregnant. I said, no, it's not pregnant. You guys are all crazy. And then, yeah, sure. Should I got in the car and no one said a word that just handed me the paper from the, from the hospital. And I was like, what the fuck? So then I started thinking the media was like, oh my God, she's dying. She's dying. Oh my God. Like what? You got to talk. I'm coming to get you. Everyone's really quiet in the car. I mean, the silence was, was due. And so then I read the thing and I was like, I just sat there. I thought I was going to get sick. I swear. I thought I was going to pass out. So yeah, that's when I found out. Yeah. And then we just drove back to the trailer that we still had boxes. Yeah. We were just unpacking and yeah. Because you and your mom had just moved to that trailer. Yeah. And this is from Mimi's house. I don't remember. I think it was your living. Because your dad lived there too. Oh yeah, my dad. Yeah. So my dad and her mom were just met pretty much getting into their thing. The trailer, which we already thought was weird. And then we got back to the trailer and I went to bed. Yep. You went to bed. I just sat there for hours while you slept thinking like, what the fuck? Like, what are we going to do? Like, look at what we're going to be bringing to be. And especially because I think at that age, like, like I was removed from my dad a lot. So I knew of his issues. I knew he was an addict. I knew all this stuff. And so he was living with his girlfriends. Yeah. How long had he been like out? I guess you could say not very long. Not even a year. I don't think. No, I was going to say probably like good four months, five months. Yeah. And then I remember thinking of my head like, you know, Kate at that. I think at that time when we were younger, she was very much defensive of her mom. She defended her mom. She was like, you know what I mean? She doesn't do drugs. She doesn't do anything. She's not like she drinks once in a while, but it's not that bad. You know, that kind of thing. It was very defensive. And I'm over here like, I'm not going to burst her bubble, you know? But in my head, I'm like, I'm telling you right now. The same normal. Yeah. I know my dad. And so at that point, that's when I was freaked out because I was like, I know. You know how your dad is. I know how this lifestyle is and then the baby thing just totally. Yeah. So I remember sitting there while you were sleeping that stupid, uncomfortable pink comfort. Yes, it's zipper on a stupid. Comforter. And I remember thinking like there's no way we just got a victim the last time. And so now we're getting this. It was just like, yeah. So yeah, that was probably just moved from me. He's done because you did. Because I remember the first time your dad pulled up to my knees on that fucking. Who's motorcycle did he have? The girl who's other girl. He was yeah, that was a whole. Yeah. So my mom found out first, but I really didn't have any. I didn't even have the time to tell her. Yeah. Yeah. The nurse did. Wow. Yeah. Oh, I would have told your mom. Shit, I don't remember. I don't either. I probably went home that day and told her. I mean, yeah, because you were all filled with anxiety. Oh, yeah. I had riddled things. You were probably a mess. Oh, I was. I was. And then because I knew like I knew that I knew that young that like I knew Kate was more naive when it came to the addiction stuff. That makes sense. So you knew like, oh, she didn't know. I mean, she did because she talked about like my mouth was really rough. Like, you know, she drinks a lot. I mean, all right, you know, I knew about the album and not to the degree that you didn't know the truth, like the full right. Like I knew about the alcohol. I think there was always a part of me being a kid that was like my mom a denial. Like my mom absolutely like, yeah, she drinks or whatever. But she don't do drugs. Like, come on out. I was very wrong about that. Yeah. But like, so I feel like, you know, we're both on just like totally different. Like, what are we going to do? Yeah, what are we going to do? Yeah. OK, so how did adoption come up and who was the first person to bring it up? Like, maybe this is an option. That would have been my mom. Well, first of all, started from how anybody even thought about adoption was your sister was my sister. Oh, yeah, because she she I mean, she she literally we me and Kate were at the hospital when my niece was born and we hung out the doctor parents the whole time in the room. Yeah. So we were in the hospital. We witnessed them being her first mom. Oh, yeah. My sister was my sister was relinquishing my niece. She had an inner head. This is what's happening. So me and Kate were like hanging out with the adoptive parents in the hospital room and talking to them. So that's so me and Kate already knew about adoption before. Was that going to be an open adoption with your well, what she thought was going to be a semi open. OK, yeah, yeah. And me and Kate. So me and Kate by the time this was this and this happened a year before Kate got pregnant. So at that point, me and Kate already knew about adoption. Right. It was a year or two. Yes, we already left in the hospital pictures I have. But she was like, too. Yeah. So we already knew about adoption from that experience of my sister almost going through with it. And then me and Kate are the ones that were like having to like watch these devise adoptive parents leave with the empty car seat. And I felt so said for his sister, too. Yeah. She was all so she couldn't do it like once she saw the baby. Yeah. And so so me and Kate already knew about adoption. And that's honestly the first thing that popped in my head. It was it's crazy because if that never happened to my sister, I don't think I don't think we ever would even thought about it. Right. I think we would have been like, all right, we're going to pair this kid in a drug addict fucking house and we're just going to do this thing. But something I remember sitting there as she was sleeping. And then I was like thinking about how this is crazy. And then eventually I was like, all right, my sister. I was like, let's reach out to that couple. Because I was like, they don't have the same couple that we know that was that was later on. No, right. That was later. I'm trying to feel like when adoption first came to my head. And I think so you had the thought of it. But I think your mom also stayed to you like, well, because she helped her sister through the whole her whole adoption, you know, placement, failure thing or whatever. Yeah. You know, Kim was also like, we'll have you guys, you know, do you want to just look into it? Doesn't mean you have to do it. Like she was like, but why don't you just talk to somebody from the agency? Right. To find out more. Right. Yeah. Let's talk to somebody. And we both were like, yeah, that's fine. Cause in our eyes, it was either parenting or adoption. Right. You know, and plus we never considered abortion at the time. So the day after I found out that I was pregnant, my mom actually woke me up out of my sleep when she was leaving for work and she was, she woke me up out of my sleep and she was like, do you think you want to get an abortion? And I just broke down. I mean, I'm scared, terrified. Right. And I remember looking at her and I'm like, yeah, I think I do. I think I do. Oh, okay. You know, I definitely think that I do. And then my mom reached out to like Tyler somehow. No, your mom, yeah, your mom said, so what's K. So I was like, okay. And she was like, are you, will you come? Where are you going to come with us? Of course I will. I said, of course. Oh man. Yeah. I mean, of course I will go and I'm out of course. I mean, I'm like, oh my God, this is such a big intense thing. And so I remember going to school because you, you weren't, you were in school. I wasn't in school. Cause her school books, your mom wanted you to watch Nick. You didn't want to go back to school yet. Uh, or whatever that happened, whatever. And then so I went to school and I'm riddled with anxiety about this. I'm like, oh my God, like, okay, we're going to get an abortion. She's this many weeks. So I went and Google search when I was, I wasn't supposed to be in the computer, but I was okay. What, what, what, what do we do? How does it, I didn't know how to research. Right. Yeah. And researching like what is an abortion? We don't really know. I'm like, I don't know what she is. I'm like, all right, she's about how does it work? And so I googled like nine week abortion and then something popped up and I was like, Oh God. And I was like, all right. So, and then I'm literally looking at my abortion to prepare myself to go with her to this appointment. And I also want to know what pain she's going to be in. Right. You're trying to figure out. Yeah. Oh my God. I'm like, do this. And then I remember printing out all the stuff. Cause I'm like, listen, if she doesn't know any of this stuff, she's got to know this stuff. Right. And so I printed out all this stuff about like, Hey, this is what, this is what this abortion is. You know what I mean? Yeah. Um, and before like post fine, you know, like pre finding out that I was pregnant. Like I was always one that was just, I always thought to myself, I would never be able to do it. I don't hate anybody that does, you know, but I don't think myself, I could ever do it. And so tower comes over and he's like, I knew that. So when she told me it's happening, I was like, wow, this is totally opposite of what you always told me that, you know what I mean? So it was. 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I was like, I was like, do you feel, are you totally 100% want to get the abortion? Do you feel kind of like, or do you feel kind of pressured by your mom? And she was like, no, I, I'm, I mean, I was, yeah. And I was pressured by everybody. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't want to let my mom down. I didn't want my mom helping me raise a baby when we're already struggling. I didn't know what I was going to do. You know, it's crazy because actually when we were younger, she was like, oh, she was actually pretty pretty. I would say, I would say pro life very much like anti. Well, I think even after, because I remember you guys talking about being pro life. Yeah. Huge thing. And, and so when, so when she told me when her mom, because it wasn't even Kate, it was her mom saying, Hey, we're going to get an abortion. I was like, Holy shit. I first off, I was like, wait, well, Kate always said that she'd never would do that. And you know what I mean? And I knew that Kate's mom in her, they ship was very much like, you know, approved approved. Yeah. Yeah. And so I just felt like it was unfair for her to not have all the information and freedom of just like, cause you know, yeah, especially me knowing how or what her beliefs were. And I think it is important. I feel like if you're going to make a decision on it, you should have, you know, every option and know the facts of every single off. Yeah. And so when that happened, it was like, that was, yeah. So when we first started the adoption process, it literally was just like, let's have a meeting. Yeah. Let's just kind of see where it goes. How about the adoption counselor and see what, see what, what it looks like. Now this is one big thing for me. Like I said, I watched all this episode this morning. Our first introduction to Dawn, like you guys are sitting down with her and she said, you guys are in the driver's seat of your adoption. It's going to look and feel the way you guys want it to look and feel. And you said, well, I want to be able to send pictures. I want to be able to call like, you know, I want to be able to like do certain things. And I've said this on my labs before, me getting pregnant at 17, if I would have considered adoption, if I wouldn't have had support, if I would have been in the y'all situation, if I would have went in and I would have been told that I might want to lean more towards, oh, okay. Well, I want to do calls, you know, which you didn't mention annual business at the time. No, not at the time. But she, I felt like y'all were led to believe any stipulation that you put on that. How it's going to go. What's how it's going to go. That's what it felt like. Right. That's what I'm saying. And then, you know, being older now and hindsight is 2020, but like, that is the goal of the adoption counselors. That's the goal of the adoption agency. It's literally the person walks in the door and you're like, they're not handing you parenting pamphlets. They're not handing you. Right. They're saying, you know what I mean? So they're, yeah, I mean, scared kid. Yeah, we're listening to the people. I've thought this before and I've heard your explanation and it makes sense, but I see other people say this like, well, why, why, why do you guys not have a problem with Don? She misled you. What, you know, Don had y'all believe this way. Don's job is work for the adoption agency. Yeah. If Don, if all the couples that came in, if she said, listen, you could say you want these things. But once you sign the papers, they could do whatever they want. She wouldn't have her job very long. You know, exactly. So, um, she has to choose. Is she going to work for the agency or is she not? Because she could, she can't educate people on adoption in that regard of where it's saying. Because then it's counterproductive to what her main goal is. Because for the longest, I was like, dude, like they should be so upset with Don, you know, like. And I think people, I get people thinking that. Well, and it's funny that you say that because literally I did, I said to Tyler, not even that long ago, actually just a few days ago, I said to him, I said, you know, there is some things that I do hold a little bit of like anger or upsetment with her. There is for sure. Because I'm sorry, but any person, I don't care how old you are, you know, birth mom or birth dad or just investigating it or wanting to know more, you need to be told those things. You guys were the children. Yes. She was the adult. You're looking at this woman and where you're sitting at that age, you're thinking she's going to be looking out for y'all. I'm so vulnerable. Just as well. Yeah. Yeah. Like I'm so vulnerable. I would have never thought, well, her job is to sell me on adoption. Right. That's what she is. She's the adoption agent, whatever, you know. So if I would have been you guys sitting there, if she would have said, listen, I'm going to be honest with you, you can have this baby and put this baby up for adoption. You can want phone calls. You can, you could put it in the paperwork, but it's not legally binding. And once they walk away from you guys at the hospital, they never have to speak to you again. Right then, I would have been like, Oh, no, sorry. I can't do that. I can't do a cause. Me and Kate would definitely have been like, Yeah. That's what I was going to ask for sure. We never wanted, we never wanted to completely close. No contact. Don't talk to me at all. We always wanted a little bit of something. We knew this. We knew that. We wanted like semi open when we were first going through it. I wanted like phone calls, pictures. Like updates. We didn't know if face to face business were going to be too hard. Too hard. Yeah. Right. So you were kind of like, But then when she was born, that's when I was like, no, take this. Because Dawn always told me to, you can always change it. Yeah. You can take the big eraser out at any moment. She's always say that. Yeah. I know everything like word for word. You can take the big eraser out at any time and we can change anything. And that's when the day when she was born and I held her for the first time. And I remember even, you know, in the beginning I thought like, it's going to be too painful for me to say hello to her. Yeah. And so when I finally did it and I was like, I can't go my whole life without seeing her. I can't like absolutely not. Honestly, the crazy part is that that was Dawn. We were, we did not want to physically hold her see her. Well, and it was Dawn. Dawn said, I've never had a couple regrets having that first moment. Yeah. And so honestly, so people had this opinion. And so I'm grateful to her for something. Yeah. We should hate Dawn. We should be mad at Dawn. I'm not mad at Dawn because I really believe that her desire to help people was taken advantage of by the agency. I really believe that her intention was to help. I do think they are. Social work and help people. I just think that the mission and the goal that she got into kind of over. Took advantage of her personality and her nature. Yeah. And so, and honestly, I've said this from day one, if it wasn't for Dawn, we would have been closed right year. So that's another thing that people are like, you guys should be so mad at Dawn or whatever. Dawn has navigated this and gave you guys advice that she would be helpful to you guys to maintain a communication. She's been the middle person. She's been the bridge. I mean, if it wasn't for her, we never would have had and that's my thing is that like when I say, when I say I'm against the adoption industry, that's what I mean. I think Dawn got taken advantage of by the adoption industry too. I think she was a victim of it. Her natural intention was to help people with social work degree and that job. And then she, you know what I'm saying? So I think that adoption industry literally, I think she's a victim of it too. Just like Brandy Reese, I think are a victim of the adoption industry in general. Yeah, because Dawn going into it, you know, before she takes a job looking at it like, okay, I'm going to work at this agency. I'm going to be helping young, expecting mothers that don't know or they can't. Or anyone in a crisis or scared. Yeah. So I'm going to be helping them. But how come? So she's been helping. Yeah. So I mean, it took me listening to you say that and thinking about it more in depth to be like, okay, like I can understand why there, I'll probably, that was my question for you too though, is that if she would have been straight up and said, listen, there's a chance they'll never talk to you guys again, y'all at a pause or would you not have went through with it? You think I think looking back on it now, I don't think I would have went through it. No, it's too much. I mean, because we knew what we, we knew how involved we wanted to be. Right. We weren't the couple that was going, there are couples who go in there and say, I want clothes. Yeah, there are. Find me. We were not that couple and she knew that from the get go. Everyone knew. So if, if, if we would have been told that we would have definitely been like, absolutely not. I mean, there's so many things that we would have. There's so many things that I didn't know. Yeah. And I think ignorance is that's when it comes like we were young kids and that's why I feel like I'm not trying to like sit here and be and victimize myself. No. But I'm also a non-idiot as a growing man and a father that has children. Like, yeah, dude, we were, we were listening to the adults. Right. All the adults telling us what we were doing was right and courageous and this and that. And so, yeah. And that I get to make it any way I want to and that I can change it at any time. Why would I have any, why would I even think that this wasn't true? You know, so. And once you guys sat down with the birth parents, but at the moment there were potential birth parents. You mean the doctor parents? Yeah. Sorry, the doctor parents. That was something again, you said, I want to be able to do these things. It was very much. Oh yeah, we think that would be a great idea. Like we're going to take a lot of pictures. Like we think that'd be a great idea. So I also felt like more adults, more adults, making you think. And in time, of course, things change. It's been almost 17 years of things happening, where feelings are getting hurt. Mistakes being made. Mistakes being made. Yeah. So obviously. Because that's life, that's relationships, right? That's the whole. Yeah. But also a 16 year old kid, you're not thinking about that. You're not thinking about. Of course. Oh, as what happens in a year if we do something to make them mad? Right. Right. Are they going to, are they going to slip it out from underneath this? You're not thinking about those things. If you guys would have made the decision to parent, do you think you would have stayed together? Do you think? Would you? I mean, you look at the teen parents and the rates of them staying together when you have a baby. It's not very high. And I don't, I don't think so. The stress, the craziness at my house, I'm pretty sure I probably would have ended up living at Kim's house with Ty. And then. If you guys would have been. And there's a thing in my mom and someone actually commented recently saying, why don't you ever blame Kim? And I said, well, I do blame Kim. I do blame my mom because. And you guys have had that conversation. Yeah. And we have. And she also takes accountability. She did. Because my sister was living with us with her two kids and her baby daddy. Poor, no money. My mom was losing the house. So even if, even if me and Kate decided to parent. And then I would have been there. And that would have been an option. I think at that point, my mom would have been like, you need to just go live with her and her family. And I knew at that point, like, oh my God, like there's no way that we can do this. You know, in this environment, because it only got worse after the adoption happened. Her mom got deeper into it. My dad got deeper into it. Well, I remember being like very, very pregnant when we lived at Johnny Legos place. What was like, yeah. And I think, yeah, it started to progress more because I remember, you know, back in the day, the home phones, if somebody was on it, you could pick it up and you could hear what they're talking about. And I vividly remember my mom was on the phone with this black guy named Cudi. Cudi. And she was like, she was on the phone with them and she's like, hey, you know, can I meet up and get an eight ball? And I remember I freaked out. A teenager. Or a teenager. Yeah. And I remember I screamed in the phone and I'm like, you're a fucking like I went off on her. I mean, I worked my whole, were you? I was, I was pregnant with Carly at this time. Yeah. She's saying, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I worked myself up to the point where literally I got sick, literally vomited all over my bedroom. I literally, that's how worked up I got because you have to think I was still in denial. I'm like, my mom doesn't do jobs. Yeah. So now there's no way you can be in denial after that. And then my mom tried to play it off on me and she was like, oh, that's, that's weed. Mind you. When I was the ages of 12 to 15 till I got pregnant, I was a massive pothead. I'm not afraid to admit it. Don't do it anymore. Can't do it. Gives me anxiety. But I remember looking at my mom and I'm like, I'm not an idiot. I know what a teenager is. I'm not dumb. What is a teenager? It's cocaine. But, but yeah, but you don't say teenager for weed. No. Got you. I'm like, I'm not an idiot. Or a dime or whatever. A gram, a half, a ounce, you know, or whatever. Did your mom know that you smoke pot back then? Oh yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. She wasn't happy about it in the beginning. No. No. But yeah. Oh, at least she wasn't happy about it. You know, at least she was like, come smoke with me, babe. But I remember you calling me and telling me that. And I think that was the first kind of like realization that it was like, it was like, okay, I'm getting it now. I'm accepting it. It's not as, I think my mom's a little deeper than I would like to be. And then I walked and then I walked to my mom's room the one time and Butch was so high on crack. And I started going off on him. I could tell you was high and he talks about that. Remember he said he was like, I was absolutely frozen. Because my dad, like my dad was a cracker, but he never, I never see my dad high. He never, he used to always like leave and be gone for days. Just like three days. Yeah. We don't know if he's dead. Call him more. Call him. Even at first when he lived with my mom, like he'd be gone. Yeah. You know, we're like, we don't know if he's in jail dead or somewhere high. So when he was home, he wasn't. No. Right. Okay. Okay. No. My mom. Maybe he was coming down. I don't know. But my mom so badly didn't want him to leave and not know where he was anymore. My mom was like, well, just don't worry about it. You can smoke it in the house. Like it's totally fine. And then the one time he did, I walked in on him and I freaked out. I could smell it. Like it just. It smells like burnt rubber bands. It smells weird. Yeah. And butch also when he's high on, he can't talk. He's literally mute. Which not like him. No, he can't talk. Yeah. Yeah. And so I was just going in on his ass. So then I think that's when it's sort of bringing the awareness of like, this is not a good situation. And then she would call me and say, I got to get out of here. I got to get out of here. So his mom or his sister would come pick me up. You know, yeah. It was a whole mess. I think from that point on is when I was finally able to be like, talk to Kate about like, all right. I think our parents are really fucked up. You know what I'm saying? Not just my dad, but I think. Your mom lives in the house. You know what I mean? Yeah. She was struggling. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we got evicted out of the giant legged in what, eight months? I don't even remember. Yeah. 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Right now, new customers can get 15% off statewide at MagneticMe.com. Go check out all their cute prints. Don't wait and get 15% off at MagneticMe.com. Yeah. One thing I think people don't know is that me and Kate flip flopped multiple times. I was going to bring that up because another thing you see constantly is like Tyler made you give and I'm like, I'm watching We Gas Bitch to choose a man or my kid. You know what I like to say? When I got pregnant at 17, to me, you took his thoughts into account. Yeah, because I went into it the whole time of like, this isn't just my baby. But I'm like, clearly she had other reasons guys, you know, like it's not just Tyler wants it. So we're going to do it. No, it was, she's looking at, I'm like, so she named off all these other things that it's just an excuse and it's only because Tyler wants it. Right. I'm like, we're watching this too, guys. We see what she's living in. Like she's saying these things. So why do we not believe it? And we think that it's only because Tyler wants it. I know it's wild, which is one of those things. Like, listen, at this point for sure, I'll wear the hat. You want whatever you guys are watching. I think what it is that you're watching an innocent woman, girl in crisis. And so you want to blame somebody. I understand that you're mad. It shouldn't have happened. So as a society, oh, who's a blame? Her mom, her boyfriend, or you don't even know it's in this one. Oh, it's fine. If that's the hat, you want me to wear, I'll wear it. It's not true. And actually, it comes back to like, why don't we talk about the system in place we have for women that find themselves in this situation? There's no fucking support for the young parents at all. There's nothing. And my whole thing is a problem. And honestly, 16 and pregnant, when they were filming, they would leave for like two weeks, three weeks, then not, and then come back and film. So there was multiple times that they were not covering this on camera, that we were flip flopping. I want a parent, I'm ready to go. Me and my mom, we're going to go to Salvation Army when she called me and said, we're all right, fine. I said, mom, she's changed her mind. We got to go, and my mom was like, all right, we'll go to Salvation Army on Tuesday and we will, you know what I mean? Go get the camera on. That was never documented, but it was never documented. So people, they only believe what's documented or something. There's like two clips that I was able to find. And I even asked like, where's the clip where Todd gave her the ultimatum? Like, did we see this? Are you guys get, I found two clips where you guys were just talking about one was before, where y'all were like, do you think we'll make it if we keep the baby? And you're like, I don't think like, I think it's going to be too difficult. Yeah. I didn't, I personally didn't take that as you saying we can't break up with you. If I just took it as you see, like looking to the future and saying, and I didn't hear that. I didn't hear you say, well, Caitlin, we can't keep the baby. I'm not going to be here if you decide that. Right. I heard you say like, I don't think we'll make it. Be realistic. I was like, yeah, yeah, based on this, I don't think it's going to happen. Yeah. So I didn't, and I don't know if those are the clips where you guys are one time was after, after the baby had been placed where I think you asked again, do you think we would have made it? Or maybe you asked one of y'all asked the other actually three clips that I remember specifically the one on the bed where we want to make it. No, you know, then there was one behind the scenes one where we were having a barbecue at my mom's in my mom's backyard and you were pregnant or no, you were, I think you were pregnant about to pop actually. That's why they were filming a barbecue and a picture huge. And, and my sister asked you a question saying, well, don't just do it because the Tyler wants to do it or whatever like that. And you, and you said something like, well, no, but you know, obviously there's a reason for it. I can't remember exactly how it went, but I remember that. But then there's another clip season four, when they took team on off the air and we're on that hill and by the lake or whatever we're on the hill, I have a stupid flora hat on and I asked you do or I asked you like, do you, did you do this just because of me and you said something long lines of well, or I said, were you afraid that I would leave you? Yes. Yes. Yeah. Were you afraid that I would leave you? And you're like, well, yeah, I was afraid that we you would leave me. We would, but I think in the way it was like, I was afraid we were just weren't going to make it. Yes, we're going to, that was my fear. Yeah. All right. And then, and then you said, you're just lucky that I took your opinions into consideration and at that point I was like, yeah, you're, I am glad. However, this was always your decision though, regardless of what I am happy to make opinion and consideration. But at the end of the day, this was your decision. I mean, I can't make you do something you don't want to do. But those are the three clips that I feel like that they kind of put together and goes, Oh, it confirms the bias that they believe that I did this. And then which was like, fine, sure, dude, but you don't also, you didn't see the part because it wasn't filmed of me saying I really want to parent and Kate going like, no fucking way. And I'm like, we can live at my house, all these things we flip off, I think twice where we are both wanting the different things. And so why would I, you know what I mean? You clearly, you clearly wasn't so pro adoption the entire time to wear Kate felt like she couldn't make the decision that she couldn't know because the time that yeah, because the time that I called him and I was like, no, I can't do it. I need a parent. And he was like, okay, I'll talk to my mom, like we'll figure something out. He was very supportive about that too. Yeah. Yeah, I was all freaking out, so but still, but I'm like, all right, well, even I was even knowing that I want to change my mind, you know, and then you call me very soon. I think it was like, not even a couple of days that you have like a week. Yeah, no, actually it was longer than a week. So I remember thinking my head like, mom, we have to go get the crib from salvation army. I was like waiting for it and she worked and I was like, Oh, yeah. So it was a minute where it was a minute where we were like, all right, we're parenting. And that's when obviously your mom got the bassinet and yeah, the clothes and all that stuff. Yeah, because there's also I heard somebody say that like, April had said that she didn't know until right there at the end that you were going to place the baby. No, that's a lie. Well, I watched the episode this morning and I'm seeing where where, you know, she's telling you like, I think you make a great mom and you guys are talking about adoption. So I'm like, how does she not know like up until when we just had this conversation most recently a few weekends ago and I and I truly think and I told her this I said, mom, because I went off on her kind of and I was like, how do you choose? I was like legally. Yeah. And I was like legally and I even reached out to dawn to ask and it is true. And I knew it was but I wanted to have, you know, proceed make sure. Yeah. I was like, mom, I was a minor. You also had to sign something in order for dawn to even freaking talk to me and you signed that. And so I told her, I said, I think that you were just going through all your own shit. You were not sober. I said, and also I said, adoption is traumatizing and you might have blocked a lot of crap. Yeah, and like she was her my dad were deep into that shit. So I honestly feel like April was so fucked up. And she was also sad and just traumatized in her own shit that I don't know if she's like, yeah, but anybody thinks that that's true. I mean, I'm seeing people run with it. Like, yeah, no, I didn't even know they didn't even tell April and I'm like, and then I hear people comment and they're saying like, you should have listened to your mom. And I'm like, oh my God, I said, listen, okay, I want to pause everyone April and butch told you guys to keep it. I'm like, I wouldn't listen to them either. No, I'm telling me that I should have listened to April and butch in April in the middle and the height of their addiction. Right. Well, what's crazy is going back then when the show was airing, everybody was on your side. Everybody was like, don't listen to them. People were making comments about how you guys got more sense than the adults in the situation. And then people was literally praising you guys for being able to do what you guys were doing despite, you know, your parents trying to talk you guys out of it, people were literally praising him. That's another question I have. What is that like to go from shifting being praised for making the decision to place the baby for adoption despite, obviously you guys want there's a part of you guys that wanted the baby is your baby to all of a sudden all these years later, now you're like hated for it or I think it's a perfect representation of how adoption culture and adoption. It's because it was such a glorified praiseworthy courageous thing that our society looks at adoption as this beautiful life saving baby saving thing. And so the moment that me and Kate had any like, like adoption, we're like, sometimes it's hard. Sometimes it was seen in like season two or three about how brand Teresa, we don't even know their last name and this is kind of shitty. And the moment that we started to kind of questioning the system that we were a victim to that's when the site, I feel like that's in the shit. Everyone was like, all right, wait a minute, these people are they're not appreciative of yeah. And then it will birth parents get over it, get over it. And it's like it's so to me, I don't really give a shit that the people, you know, changed her mind about supporting us and not what because what I'm what I'm it's just validating to me. Yeah, our goal has shifted really. It's like, okay, so I educate people more about the reality of it. Because listen, like, like we went for a year after really wishing that we went and did pro-life march. We went speaking engagements. And we were in, you know, going to therapy and stuff, realizing that like that was our own, that was our, that was our way of trying to like heal and make sense of the trauma that we went through. Oh, and that's what adoption does, right? You do it, you feel this immense grief and loss. And what do you do with the grief and loss? You wrap it in a bow. You make it something inspirational. You make it. Oh, this was great. Different. You yeah, you feel something really bad. And then you say, but, but she's so happy and great that you don't ever sit with those hard feelings. And I think it's okay for you guys to have the feelings that you have, but also acknowledge that like, okay, she's great. Like she is. Yes. You know, two things can be true at the same time. Right. I can, I can, I can, you know, be sad and have grief and be devastated about it. And then also be happy for what she has. Yeah. Happy and grateful that in a way she has got everything that what we wanted, she got, you know what I mean? And so when I say that I, when people say, do you regret that option, I regret it for me. I don't regret it for Carly. I regret it for me being a young, scared, right? Right. Vulnerable. Yeah. I mean, that's so, not told the full truth. Teenager. Yeah. I think people get kind of like mad, like, oh, you know, it's like, just admit that you regret it. Of course I regret it. For me. For you. For me. Not for her. I'm happy that she's got what she's got. But for us, yeah, of course I regret it, you know? So I think two things can be true at the same time. It's the literal term of like, bittersweet. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Whatever you want to call it. Yeah. But I think like, you know, that's why I think people shifting their opinion about us, it's, it's, it's, I'm like, you know what, this makes sense. This, this, because our culture is so brainwashed to think that it's, that you can't all unicorns and rainbows and cupcakes. And it's like, well, they have unicorns, rainbows and cupcakes. There's also, you know, hardships and sadness and grief and sorrow. I think society's not ready to hear that. They want to more or less like, they, oh, well, if you had a hard time, just stay over there and just deal with it by yourself, quietly. And it's like, well, no, I, I'm not going to deal with it quietly. I think it's something we need to talk about clearly because how quickly the society changed your perception of us so, so quickly, so fast. You guys, spring is finally here. And I've been doing a little spring reset with my closet lately, focusing on quality over quantity, just building a wardrobe of pieces that are well made, versatile and easy to reach for every day. 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Refresh your spring wardrobe with Quints. Go to quints.com slash break it down for free shipping and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too, go to qince.com slash break it down for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com slash break it down. Well, I think first off, a lot of people did not understand that open, some open adoption is not legally binding in most states. I didn't know that. Right. You know, a lot of people. So you guys possibly save young girls in crisis. Yeah, we're thinking that we're gonna that thought they could go in and get an open adoption for maybe not doing it. You know what I'm saying? Because no one like, oh, I can't live the rest of my life and not be able to write our letter or see a picture or something. But so anybody that's heard that this now is away. So I definitely think there needs to be the discussion. The discussion needs to be had about the truth about adoption. Yes, it needs to be part of it. Yeah, it needs to we need to talk about it. We have to keep ignoring it. We have to keep talking about it. But I'm telling you, that's why they're so mad at us is because they're not ready to hear this. And we're talking also too about other like legal ways that you can do it. You can get somebody permanent guardianship, but then you still are protected. Yeah, you know what I mean? Having rights and things like that. And when I tell people that adoption is a legal transferring of that it's a legal it's a legal proceeding. It's not a literally right. You can you can really do permanent legal guardianship. And it's the same exact way. It's just that it protects and it will and it also protects the some of the adoptees rights to like, you know, then they don't get their original birth certificate strip from them that they can never find again, you know, all their stuff should be protected under the form of that. Do you guys have a birth certificate for Carly where y'all are listed as her parents? Like, did y'all get one? Yeah, well, I went and signed the affidavit to be because I think Dawn sent me recently. I don't know if she said I don't know if it was the original. No, it wasn't the original. I don't have her original birth certificate. No, I don't. But I remember making sure that I was on it because you have to get the original birth certificate if I'm gonna leave the hospital, all that stuff or whatever. And then they pretty much just change their birth certificate. Do you want Ty to be on it? And I said, absolutely. And so I signed the affidavit to be on there. Because at first I was like, I don't need to I don't need to be on it. And Dawn's like, no, I think it's really important. And another instance where Dawn kind of came through. Right. And so she was like, no, I think it's really important. You I think you should sign the affidavit and get your name on there. I wonder if we could ever get it. I don't know. It would have been possible. Yeah. But and so and that's one thing is that once the birth certificate gets changed, that's what adoption does. It erases the rights of the adoptee to have their original birth certificate. And now they have a brand new one. So what really is legally you're erasing this original thing, which has information that the adoptee might want or need or deserve to have it. Especially for people that are enclosed. Yeah, yeah. That's the other thing about it. Yeah. So don't understand that they can't get their original birth certificate. It's sealed. So they literally are denied. It's a human right to be able to get your birth certificate under the Fourth Amendment. As a almost 40 year old woman, if I went to try to get my original and I was told no, I'm like, it's mine. It's a human right, but it's not for adoptees, which means that's what we're talking about when it's like they deserve these right stripped from them. Right. And so adoption is not necessary to provide safe external care for children. It's not necessary. It's a legal proceeding. Yeah, people hate on us for all. Yeah, they do. Yeah, you guys definitely get it. There was a scene from the show where right after you guys found out that they did not want no pictures. Do you guys do I know we wanted to be careful with what we talked about today? I want to I'm not mentioning a name. There was a clip from the show that you still get a lot of hate because it was after you found out like no pictures, I think like don't put it in your like what the heck like why can't I post no pictures? You're like, I don't care. And you're like, I do though, if it stops us from being able to see I care, you're like, why don't and you still get hate. And I've talked about this on my on my channel. I deserve the hate there. That's totally legit. Yum, yum, arrogant, prideful. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I think I feel like we had, you know, but the title. Yes, I mean, I think I definitely deserve the criticism there. In my opinion. So I mean, it's not it's it's just when you're told things behind the closed doors. And when things don't make sense to me, and it feels like an injustice that's not what we were seeing like real life, real feelings in that moment. That's what I'm like. Oh, no, this was this was a pickup scene that we had to do. But those were your real thoughts. That's how I really felt. Yeah, but it wasn't didn't happen at that exact moment in that way. But you were still angry in the moment when it was filmed because I was like, you know, we're here to watch a show about teen pregnancy and they chose the route for adoption. So they're just told this. This is the first change that's really happening. It's where something they thought that they would always get. So he is sharing his real authentic feelings of feeling like what the heck like, no, I'm still going to do it. I don't care. And you being like, no, like, don't do it. If it takes this right away from us, I don't want us to do it. Yeah. So in the scene is like when I'm posting that month that clip of the this video that you made, I already posted. So MTV missed the original thing that happened where Teresa calls us and says like, so I already knew that they were pissed. So we are so he already knew we already knew the rep we already knew that they were pissed about it. We already knew we were in trouble for it. But MTV didn't get to cover it. So they wanted you to reenact it. We didn't do a pickup scene. They call it pickup scenes where we had to pretend that I was submitting the video right then and there. Kate already knew at this point that they were upset with us. They are upset with us. However, the reality of it is is that when they decided to do the whole Life Finds magazine thing, we thought, oh, this is this is the green light. Right? I mean, why would you know what I'm saying? Yeah, she's posted on the front cover. So when we first when I first posted it, that was around the same time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So when I first when I first posted it, Kate wasn't like, oh my god, they don't do that. Like, oh my god, we're gonna get in trouble. It was like, oh, yeah, well, I mean, yeah, they showed her face. So now we can share this with people or our fan page or whatever it was. And so I get why the way the scene plays out why you would have that criticism or that hate for me. Like you said, yeah, we we both did. I mean, there's parts of me to sometimes where I felt very entitled and like, hey, I created this little human. I gave you this little human. I should get some things like you're young and you're dumb, you know. Yeah, but I do think that that scene got played out in a way that was not the way it really like happened. You know what I mean? Okay. Not to justify, like I said, I deserve the criticism, whatever, because I did really still feel that way. It just was I didn't have as much opposition from Kate that it looked like I did. And the real in the real time and real the real situation because even Kate was like, oh, yeah, I mean, because she didn't know we didn't know we were in trouble for it. Because at that moment we were like, dude, what's the big deal? And then also too, I think when that happened to, I think it was great. A great learning experience because that we were able to have the conversation with brands. Yeah, yeah, I'll sit down later on. Yeah. And you have you have made the comments like when you tell me not to do something makes me want to do it. You got a lot of hate for that too. Which which makes sense. But I think when it comes there, they missed they cut that I said something after that though, I said it makes me want to do that. I don't want to do that. Or I can't remember what they but when they said, when you say, yeah, when you don't give me a reason, it makes you want to just fuck it then. What if you can't give me a good enough reason for it, then it doesn't justify me not be able to do it because if it was that big enough deal to you, you would have a logical reason to not do it and you're not doing that. And people that are autistic, they need a reason like having two kids like if you can't give them first off, not even a reason but a reason that makes sense to them. They're like that's a struggle for them. No, and literally, and that's what happened with the whole post in the picture thing. Because I was like, Oh, they're in a magazine. We're done hiding your face. Now would you say you get it that like, if they tell me as her parents, if they tell me not to do something, I can't do it. It is what it is. And that's why I want to have the conversation all together in person. And that's why Dom was trying to be very much diplomatic. And I was like, No, this is my moment. I don't, I don't, let's just say this whole relationship we've struggled with me entire very blunt. We speak our minds are we speak our feelings. So like, you know, let's have a conversation. How do you feel? This is how we feel. How does it affect you? Oh, great. This is how it affects me. Like, let's do this ebb and flow. They haven't been, you know what I mean? Because they come from this standpoint, as were her parents, we don't have to justify anything to you guys. We don't have to tell you why we're making it. And that's parent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally understandable. And I think there's a logical part in your mind, especially somebody who's autistic, that you're like, but yeah, but I'm a birth parent. So can you give me a reason here? Well, I think my point is that I put myself in their shoes. Okay. And if I can't, if I have this sense of, well, I don't have to give you a reason, then it can't be that big of a deal. Yeah. If it was so important to me, I would tell you the reason why clear as day. Of why it's important to me. So for you to be like, well, we don't have to tell you. It's like, I was like, I'm like, what? But I think from the beginning, now you accepted, would you say now? You're like, yeah, okay. Of course, now I accept it. However, I still would like a reason. Right. And you know, and from and from when that happened, like other things changed. And it was like, you know, we had a conversation with brand entry. So when, you know, after we had the conversation and Nova was born and Carly got to meet her for, you know, when she was nine months old or whatever, it led into us having the conversation with her parents again about like, because I got this really cute picture of her meeting Nova for the first time. And she's like looking at Nova, but her hair is covering her face like perfectly. And you can see Nova's like, she's all like cheese and smile. I think it's that it's online. It's online. Yeah. And so I remember I reached out to them and I was like, I was like, this is just so cute. Can I post this one? You can't see her face or anything. And then that's when we established the boundary of how about this? If you can't see your face and you can't, basically just see her face. I'm okay with you posting it. And that's, I think this is why people say they put up a boundary and you guys keep crossing it because you keep posting or afterwards. You never show her face. I'm wondering if that's what people are getting is that you guys were given permission to post pictures that do not show her face. Right. That's what I mean. They don't know that happened because it happened on camera. Right. That was a private. So they say don't post her. We don't want you guys post. I'm going to post her anyways. And then you're posting pictures far from behind posting the picture. They'd be different. Of course. He's still posting. They're still posting. From that perception I get why you're like, you guys kept crossing boundaries. Yeah. Of course. No, that was they believe happened. I'm wondering. I think so. Yeah. And that's why like even when I have that with you that one day, I was like, that wasn't that's not our boundaries. How do you know our boundaries? But I don't. That's why several times I always see like they cry and I'm like, what are I I cover them and I don't know what the boundaries are. So that means I knew that it don't show her face. I actually knew that it was you can post just don't show her face because one of you guys had told me that at some point like, no, we could post. We just couldn't post her face. I was like, oh, just from the last visit, it was always back shot. Yeah. Yeah. But I think people thought like, oh, here they go again, post in the picture. I get it. Yeah. If you didn't know, yeah, that was, you fucking idiots. It looks like shit. That totally makes sense. The problem is when it comes to this pair of social reality TV people watching clips of a show, you don't know the conversations we have. Right. We have a private life too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You don't know about the boundaries. Y'all are standing gifts all the time. It was supposed to go through dawn and I'm like, but I think that was something they changed. Yeah. They gave us their address in a in a card. Yeah. It was like a gift and their last name was a gift and we were we opened the card and it was blank. It didn't click it first. We thought we're gonna get pictures but I'm like, I'm just being like, oh, I don't understand what's going on. And then after I clicked in the last name, I was like, oh, this is like though whatever. So they gave y'all permission to start sending gifts to their home. Yeah. Because it did in the beginning, it did start off like you come to the the agency will give you the pictures. You can give me gifts, you know, they'll send us gifts. And then thankfully, and I'm glad for that because eventually it's so much easier to describe. And guess who's facilitated that dawn. Dawn. Dawn's the one that said, listen, give them the address. Let let them in a little bit. Don't I'm saying so like, that also comes to the point where dawn came through there. You know what I mean? So yeah, I think there's a lot of things people don't know, which is like, I get it. And if you're watching a TV show that's cut and edited in this way, I get why you have this perception that totally makes sense. Well, something that's that I've understood too, covering these people, you have this one idea, but then you start talking to them and you get started getting more information and you're like, so it changes things a little bit. So I've heard, you know, people talk about like, Oh, you know, Jordy goes and visits them and then he switches up. And I'm like, well, probably because he got more information that may made maybe their actions make a little bit more sense, something that he was dragging them for. Now he's like, Oh, didn't know that. Okay, makes sense. I don't think Jordy does a time as a type of person that would come here, not get more information, but go back home and just switch up just because he met you guys. Yeah, I feel like he would still be the type that because even when we met in person, he said he's like, do I still do I still agree with everything? No, he's like, do I understand more? And it's opened my mind up a little bit more to things. He's like, absolutely. And I'm like, Hey, I mean, Ty even said we're like, we weren't even trying to change your mind. We just wanted to give you the full truth if you speak on it. And that's kind of why when we have interviews like this, I wanted to give you this opportunity of like, you know, ask the heart, ask whatever you see the comments more than we do as far as the hate on us. So like, this is like, lay it out. Because I want to make sure that you have this opportunity. I want I don't want people to say the same thing that they said about dory about you. Yeah, or what did they say? Oh, you switched up, you came there, you met them in person. And now you're so I want you to make sure you ask us any this is your shot. Okay, ask away girl. I had some questions yesterday that I was like, they were the hard ones. But I was like, I think I can ask them because I think you guys know how to answer them. Okay. There's this comment that I've seen several times about you left Kate, you cheated on her with a guy or something. That's what we play on that a lot to those. I know I'm an asshole. I can't help it. I'm trying to get some stuff that I am like, messages, the things with the messages. Yeah. Now I read the messages. Thank God, I almost read the sentence you two. Yes, I read those messages in totality. So wait, for clarification, you read the messages unredacted, unredacted, in order, in order. Yes. Now when this all first came out, I got some hate because I wasn't covering it. But I was it's because I was trying to wait for everything to come out to put it in order. I was like, I need the order to this. I realized I have everything that's been put out. There's no order because things are not put out in order. There's things that's missing. That's why something's not making sense. We're jumping from one topic to the next topic. And one thing that people say, oh, they reached out to monitors that, you know, they're, they're, they're harassing them, they're reaching out to monitors trying to find out about, you know, whatever. And have you guys ever started a conversation with a monitor to get information? No, no, they, we never, they always reach out to us. And it's been, it's not a minor. And actually, it's been more even after that fact really. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I had some lady call me like, I'm friends with Teresa and she wanted me to call you. I said, if Teresa wanted her to talk to me, you can have your friend call me. Thank you. I've then I've had some other lady call me. I've had the brain and the brain and I literally had people text me like, Hey, this is Carly. I'm on my friend's phone. Yeah. Can you da da da da da. And I'll write back and be like, you can't just need to get better at your game, bro. You know, or whatever. They're still coming after us. They're still. Yeah, it's still happening. They're still reaching out to us. These people. If you could go back when you guys were first reached out to, if you could go back, would you shut it down right then? I would have never talked as long as I did. Right. That was wrong. I think that was like, it's when it comes to all the message stuff, like the concerning things that I was hearing from multiple different numbers and somebody reached out to me. It was like, like the multiple that I was hearing from was so concerning that and what people don't even know too is like, before we got those text messages that we're saying all these bad things were happening, we were getting emails from this person called like whistleblower and she was saying the same exact things. She's, we got that first and then we got these messages and we're like, Whoa, too much stuff happening at once. So that's what happened to me right before is I got emails saying, I know them. This is how I know them. And she is unhappy. She wants to see them. She don't understand. You were catfish too. You can't create a catfish. Yes. And this person, new information, like addresses, schools and all the things. And I'm like, Oh my God, this is so, this is so bad. Like this. Oh my God, like poor her. Right. Yeah. And so that's what I'm saying. Like I don't, I think natural is apparent. Of course I'm going to respond and whether you really pushed her by a parent. Yeah. I mean, the fact that like, of course I'm going to respond because these are, these are allegations that are so concerning. I'm like, what the hell is going on? It would be like, and they knew information that made you believe that they, of course, because if they didn't have any information that made me believe that they knew her in some way, I'd be like, you're an idiot. Get out of here. Yeah. But it was, it was, it was too much. It was too much information that they, that no one else knew. So it was either it is somebody that knows her or it's somebody that's dug in to her to get this information, which is very concerning. Yeah. Yeah. All concerning, right? So my whole thing is that like my, my biggest regret is talking as long as I did with this person. You know, I shouldn't have let it go on as long as it did. I guess, but, but I don't really, I mean, I'm a dad. And if anyone reach out to me with concerning things about any of my children, I'm going to, I'm going to inquire if they had information that told you, they made me believe, you know what I mean? Right. And which is the whole point of campus. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. One thing that I realized in reading them is this person wanted to be the person to give you the best advice and that knew Carly better than anybody. She didn't want Don give me information. She questioned on she Dr. Drew, why Dr. Drew saying that that's not right. Like, no, why did Don tell you that? That's not right. This is how this is how she feels, you know, and I thought that was so weird that like they kept, they kept trying to, you're like, well, Don said, this is what's going on. No, no, no, no. Why would she say that? That's not true. Cause this is what's happening. Right. You're like, wait, what really? So this, this is how she feels about this. Yeah. This, I don't know why I would tell you that. It's like this person wanted to be the one person, even though Don has been with you guys through all of this, even though Dr. feel Dr. Drew has been in this a little bit and he is a doctor or counselor or whatever. They wanted you guys to think, well, they don't know what's going on because this is her friend potentially are an adult that knows or whatever. And if it was a friend, of course, they would probably know how she really feels. Is she too afraid to tell our parents that she feels right? Right. And that's what they were letting you believe like, no, because this is how she really felt about it. And I don't know, maybe she didn't want to be honest, you know, with, with her parents to tell Don, but this is how she really feels. So then you're in this like position of like, this is the only person that I have telling me the truth about what's going on with that. It's my only source of real, real truth that's happening. You read the message on redacted. What was your, what was your take from all the messages? What was your, I mean, this person reached out to you on multiple platforms like, oh, I can't see your message here. So message, I'm going to message you here, whatever. Well, for one thing is you guys want reaching out to them trying to get information. You guys want reaching out to them. When I see somebody say like, Oh, who's the guy catch a predator? Oh, catch a predator. They're reaching out to my honors. Your thing is something sexual. Like, oh my God, it was turned into that. I mean, people turned it into that. Like, yeah, which is strange. Oh, Tyler's in the bathroom at three o'clock in the morning and takes on the 16 year old, you know, and I'm like, wow, okay. I would say I remember when I first read them and there was like, Oh, y'all don't have to tell like, I think you were like the first one that was reached out to you. Oh yeah, because she said, like, well, who's this Jennifer? Should I tell somebody? And I was like, if it was that big of a threat, I would tell you to, but no, it's not a threat. I don't think you're like, yeah, it's fine. I'm so betting this person. So I don't figure out who's yeah. And then like, um, so there were things where I remember when I first I was like, Oh, shit, like if somebody was messing with my kid this like hell no, like I'm gonna say there weren't things that I was like, yeah, Tyler, shit. And I said that. Yeah. Was that wrong? I mean, I don't, I mean, maybe, maybe I could have said like, well, if you feel like it's, you know, harmful or disturbing, absolutely tell somebody. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, of course. Because the messages that were put out, um, definitely this person was playing the game. I know. This person was playing the game saying things like about the church themselves. It's like, Oh, church is not good. Like this is going on with it. And it's getting way this way. But only posting my response to that. Then you're responding and you're like, well, yeah, that's kind of what I've seen with this is my concern with and then putting your response, not putting that they started that conversation. Yeah. Look, I'm really going to reach out to you and say your church is this, isn't that you, you, you, right? That's like before that. So imagine from my perspective when they're releasing these messages, I'm like, what the, this is completely out of context. Why don't you ever think about putting the rest of them out? Yeah. Yeah. Why haven't, why haven't we? I mean, I just think it would get more context and it would let other people see too that this or you love somebody like Ellen Ray put them out or something. You know, I guess my thing about at this point in time, with this whole text message, it's just like, I know my truth. I'm so comfortable with it. And I know what really happened that I don't releasing all the unredacted messages would do. What would it do? I'm, I'm telling you that this is what happened and you're choosing not to believe me. That's fine. So I think I need to beat that horse pretty much by releasing the unredacted. However, I do think that for people I can trust like you and Ray and certain people that are recovering this stuff. And I was like, listen, if you're going to cover this stuff, you can hate on me all you want. I just want you to have the whole truth. Right? Yeah. So that was my whole goal. And so like, I mean, I even told Ray, I said, Ray, you have more information than some of these other creators do unredacted, fully unedited messages. So talk about it if you want. I talk about it. And if someone doesn't believe you, they're not going to believe me either. So it doesn't really matter at this point. Like you can take it for what it is. But no, I didn't think about releasing all the messages because it's like, well, why not at this point? But then I'm thinking about how like, well, this is just stupid. Like, I'm not, I'm not here to convince the world of what happened because I know what happened. Yeah. So I guess my I'm, I'm, I know my truth. You know what I mean? So I don't really feel the need to like, and thankfully we live like the other ounce. This world would eat us up like the job that we have and stuff that would eat us a lot. Imagine I went and attached every every room like this way. Oh God, I'd be never never ending. I mean, I think it is it sucks even me like as a creator, like, especially reading the messages, like when I see somebody say something or like, because I talked to you guys before about some of it. So like you want to jump like, especially when they're like, Oh, catch a predator. Oh, there's text on mine. And I have responded at times. I'm like, listen, I don't agree. Definitely what they should have done is maybe reach out to dawn, right when it happened like, Hey, dawn, I'm getting these messages. This is concerning. Yeah, we probably, we did definitely waited too long to reach out to dawn. We probably should have done it from beginning. I reached out to dawn. Probably what three months, two months after actually, no, I'm pretty early on and she even said like, no, but in the beginning, I think if we would have reached out to her and said, Hey, we're getting these messages, they're kind of concerning. She probably could have reached out and then we would have found out the information them that even brain and trees were being catfished. People were calling their phone. People don't know that. No, no, they were texting them and telling them crazy things. Yes. This person went in the whole family, everybody, everyone in the family, you know, brain and siblings, like weird, this is crazy. Yeah, they were catfishing. Maybe if we would have reached out sooner before at all, you know, then we probably would have, but you guys were from the standpoint that she was unhappy and she couldn't tell them. I don't want to get in trouble. So you don't want to get in trouble yet. No. Okay. Did you ever try to follow Carly on social media? Did either one of you guys ever try to follow car? My niece did. Your niece did. My niece did. Okay. And that was simply because I was like, Listen, she's your cousin. If you want to follow her, you can. Not a thing. You can try to follow her. But also you guys in the messages, you were encouraged to do some things. Thank you. This person saw that. This person who was her friend was like, you should do this. You should show up to the church. She's you should show up to the show. What are they going to do? They is a church like show up to the church. You should write a letter. You should do this. And I'm like, and then for them to turn around and put it out when you're talking about doing it, when they're the ones that told you to do it and saying they know her better than anybody. My response of me saying, I don't want to, I don't want to freak her out by requesting. Yeah. Like, wouldn't that be weird? Yeah. I don't know what, because there's so many messages, but I remember responding to them saying, Oh, I don't know if I should do that. That seems Yeah, because they encouraged you. They encouraged you. They personally go request Carl and on social media and I was like, I feel uncomfortable doing that. They didn't put that part. They didn't release that part, but I literally said, I feel uncomfortable doing that. And they made it from the standpoint that they're her friend. She's telling them what she wants. Yeah, that she wants it. She wants it. She wants contact. Right. Yeah. So I mean, I don't know, well, it's all fucking crazy. It is all. I'm so glad that you were able to read all the messages. Like, and honestly, you couldn't talk about it. If you see some shit, like you, oh yeah, I told her the same thing. I said, you ever see something go ahead and be my guest. You know the fucking truth too. Now. So it's like absolutely. Okay. If anyone can say anything, it's it's the people who've seen the enacted message. Right. So we're not going to say that. When I do try to like, Oh, well, you know, I've talked to King time. They said this. Yeah, but they're liars. Anyway, I know. I know who I am as a person. I know I'm not. I'm like, I'll have to tell you what they said. If you think that they're liars and you just don't want, okay, then there's nothing that I can say then. That's why I'm not reading the message. Because at this point, I'm like, there's nothing I can do to you guys already have this in your head that I'm whatever it is. What it is. So right. And Kerm always comes back 10 fold. So yeah, whatever. But all right, well, we should probably wrap this up. We're wrapping up. Sorry guys. We've been told we might need our own YouTube live. You know, like you got all the messages or the questions. Oh, we have to do a live anyways too. I have so many more questions for you guys, but we'll do it all. We'll do it all. You know, yeah. Okay. See, we've got ours. Now we need to go around. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I could ask you guys questions all day. I mean, I've been in Yall's lofts for 16 years. So it's fun. That's awesome. I love it. Well, I'll thank you so much for coming all this way to join us. And it's been a pleasure. I was super excited to have you on. So excited. And for people that don't know where to find you, where can people find you? I am on YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, X, Facebook, not on only fans, but everywhere else you can find me. LB. LB. E-L-L-E. B-E-E. And it is pronounced L. Yes. Yeah. Awesome. That's where you can find me guys. Go follow LB. Thank you guys for having me. Oh, thank you for coming. Seriously, so much. Make sure you guys rate and review. Leave a comment and we will be talking to you guys next week. Bye. Cluedo TV has thousands of free movies and TV shows. We're coming at you with everything we got. This is the mindset. Free. This is the mantra. Free. This is the. With movies like Pineapple Express, the entire Star Trek film franchise and Gladiator, and TV shows like Survivor, SpongeBob SquarePants, The Fairly Odd Parents and Ghosts, Cluedo TV is always free. Cluedo TV. Stream now. Pay never.