How to Rewire Your Brain and Finally Break the Pattern of Self-Sabotage with Dr. Audrey Schnell

So we want to do things differently disrupt those patterns that are almost like just self-propelling, even if it's behavior we don't want. And that's what really throws people. You know, why am I doing what I don't even want to do? Well, because that's the way you're wired yourself and your two year olds is running the show right now. Well, welcome back to the podcast. Today I am interviewing Dr. Audrey Schnell. We're talking all about how to rewire your brain and finally break the pattern of self sabotage. So many people know the best things to do further nutrition for their lifestyle, but they just don't follow them. They just don't do them and why is that? Or oftentimes they start doing them, but then they all of a sudden get in a bad cycle of habits that sabotage their success. And so we're going to go through that in detail. Dr. Audrey Schnell is a coach, speaker, and strategist who helps high achieving professionals stop getting in their own way and create vibrant health, wealth freedom and momentum that actually lasts. With a background in clinical psychology and a PhD in epidemiology and biostatistics, Audrey brings a rare combination of scientific rigor and practical insight to human behavior and change. Her work focuses on why smart, capable people struggle to translate insight into action, not a lack of motivation or confidence, but outdated internal models hidden blind spots and internal systems that quietly drive self sabotage. We're going to go through that in detail. You can find her website Audrey Schnell, a U D R E Y S C H N E L L dot com Audrey Schnell dot com to learn more about her programs and what she does. And again, today we're talking about how to rewire your brain and finally break the pattern of self sabotage. This is a really important topic. If you know somebody that has this sort of negative pattern and maybe they struggle with things like depression, anxiety, loneliness, right? Maybe they've had a rough childhood. Maybe they had abuse in their past. This would be a great podcast to share with them. And this would also be it would also be great for them to to check out Dr. Audrey Schnell. So they can really get the help and overcome these internal issues and rewire their brain. So you guys are in for a treat here. Of course, if you need anything, go to drjockers.com best articles, infographics on the entire internet and every major health topic. And we also offer health coaching. So if you're looking for 101 health coaching email us at info at drjockers.com. That's info at drjockers.com and put in the subject line put in health coaching and let us know why you're inquiring about health coaching and we'll be happy to set you up with a phenomenal health coach. I can work 101 with you to help you overcome your health challenges and reach your health goals. So drjockers.com is the site for that. And of course, leave us a five star review on the podcast that helps us reach more people and impact more lives. Thanks so much for being a part of our podcast community. And let's go into this interview with dr. Audrey Schnell. This podcast is sponsored by our friends over at paleo valley. And if you have not tried their grass fed meat sticks, what are you waiting for? These meat sticks are amazing. You know, if you go out and you look for beef jerky or something like that, even if you can find it grass fed, it's always loaded with sugar, additives, preservatives. That's why I'm so excited about grass fed meat sticks from paleo valley. They are an amazing snack. They can even be a meal replacement. There's no sugar, additives or preservatives in them. 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They've got a number of different flavors that are amazing. A teriyaki. That's really good as well. So guys, check them out. Go to paleo valley.com forward slash jokers. And that will actually give you 15% off your order. And you can get other, you can check out other paleo valley products as well. Just go to paleo valley.com forward slash jokers. Check out the grass fed meat sticks as well as our other great products today. Well, here I am with Dr. Audrey Schnell. And we're talking all about self sabotage. One of the main things that's holding a lot of people back from reaching their health goals and really goals in every area of their life, relationships, finances. I mean, in so many areas, just self sabotage is a really big thing. And all of us do it to some degree. And some people do it a lot more than others. And let's talk about how to what self sabotage is and really best strategies for breaking that great to be with you, Dr. Audrey. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me here. Yeah, it's the human condition. You know, it doesn't mean that sometimes we feel crazy because we end up not doing what we want to do or even worse doing the opposite. And then we go down the rabbit hole of what's wrong with me. When really self sabotage is just the human condition should really maybe be called self survival because it's those those resistance to change that fear. Not necessarily fear of failure or success, just fear of the unknown, fear of doing something different that just derails people. And it creates, you know, the more you don't do what you want to do, the more you lose self confidence, self trust. And so you people get stuck in that kind of failure loop and and have trouble getting out of it when they really want, you know, it's not a lack of discipline necessarily or or motivation or intelligence. It's just learning how to overcome those those roadblocks that we all have. You know, like you said, some more than others, but we all have it somewhere. And it's actually a good thing in a way because it says, yeah, I'm doing something new. I'm doing something important. And I just have to look at the ways I'm holding myself back, getting in my own way. Yeah. Yeah. No doubt. Now I always talk about how health is really it's it's a it's a positive momentum cycle. So for example, you know, when you get a good night's sleep, you're more motivated the next day to get more movement in to exercise to make better, you know, nutrition choices. But when you don't sleep well, you're more irritated, you're rushed, you're stressed, you're not thinking about getting uncomfortable through exercise or, you know, you're looking for some sort of stress relief from the food you're eating. So that's typically going to be your more of your comfort foods, maybe more caffeine, things like that. And so when it comes to health, a lot of it is is really the momentum cycle, right? One good habit leads, it makes it easier to follow another good habit and vice versa, right? At one negative habit can oftentimes lead us down a cycle of more negative habits. What's the underlying psychology about this? The easiest thing is always the easiest thing. So especially when we're tired, we are going to go the easiest route. We don't have our brain is an operating at full force. And I'll talk about this more as the talk goes on. But so we rely, we go back to what's easy, what's easy, convenience, food, things that I'm used to. And then of course that, as you said, goes into the cycle of, well, I'm not getting results or I'm disappointed in myself, which then leads to more of the things I don't want. So sometimes people will say, well, what's, you know, what's the best thing to do for self-sabotage? And just kind of like you said, I say, get a good night's sleep. Yeah. Because it's really hard to engage your, your higher brain when you're tired. I mean, there's no doubt that's like a big trigger for me. Like I'm a really disciplined person. I like structure. Most people would look at me and be like, oh man, he lives a perfect lifestyle. But you know, there as a business owner, as a former athlete, like I'm really driven to win in a sense, right? And there's times like in my business where like maybe I do, I make a video and I don't feel like I did my best, where I feel like I did not win there. And I get frustrated with myself. And you know, the biggest thing for me is it's a reminder, I'm probably a little bit tired. I need, I need a good night's sleep. Like I need to really focus on a good night's sleep and get out of this negative cycle. Yeah. Well, I'll tell you everybody including my husband laughs at me because I'm in bed by eight o'clock. Good for you. Nobody, nobody screws with my sleep. Anybody who knows me knows not to call after seven. And like you said, you know, what happens is we also are so harsh on ourselves sometimes when we don't do our best. That that can also be self-defeating because then we get down on ourselves, our energy lowers, our brain immediately goes to and this gets to the rewiring idea, goes to what's wrong, what's negative, why? Well, biologically, evolutionary wise, what's wrong will kill you? What's right will not. So we're kind of pre-programmed to look for what's going to kill me, what's wrong here. And so we get caught up in looking at what's wrong, looking at our failures. And then that just drives the negative versus focusing on what almost like power steering, you got to force yourself to look at, okay, what went well? What's right? What am I doing well? And that just makes everything work better, our energies better, our psychology is better. We need to focus on or not ignore what needs to change, but not be, you know, just focused on, oh, I screwed up again. Yeah, it's a part of our brain, our particular activating system in our brainstem. And it's designed to help keep us alive. Like you mentioned, like, you know, for our ancestors, their stressors weren't, you know, doing poorly on a making a video or something like that, but it's like, their, their stressors were, are, am I going to get killed by, you know, this wild animal, right? Or am I going to get ostracized from my tribe and from my clan, from, for the activities that I'm doing or whatever it is. And so, so we're wired to perceive things that could be a threat is what you're saying. That's stress over, you know, basically survival over thriving in a sense. Exactly. And then what unfortunately separates us from the animals is after that threat is gone, you know, the zebras don't sit around the water cooler going. I really should have done a better job of that. All right, you're referring to the great book why zebras don't get ulcers, right? Because, you know, ulcers, there's a stress component behind people getting ulcers. Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. And we do that and we get caught up in that. And that again, just leads to, it wears you out. I know for me, if I stay focused on what I didn't do well, it just limits me even more. I don't take new risks. I literally almost shut down. And so it's so important, I think, to have, to focus on the winds and to have the support. You know, the reminders to, to shift our focus. Yeah, that's so good. And I know that adverse childhood experiences, these ACEs, adverse childhood experiences can play a big role in self-sabotaging behaviors and people that have a higher amount of adverse childhood experiences tend to have more self-sabotaging behaviors. Can you touch on that a little bit? Sure. Well, trauma and we have first, let me say that we have to also remember that looking back, we may look at things like, oh, my mom forgot to pick me up a daycare when I was four. With our adult brain doesn't sound like trauma. So we don't take it into, into consideration, the effect it's had. But to a four-year old, getting left a daycare is trauma. And those things stick with us. And they limit our options. They change how we see the world, how self-protective we are, which again goes to kind of the root of self-sabotage, which is keep me safe. I don't want, even if I want, you know, to eat better and new foods and lose weight or, you know, deal with my stress differently. All of that is new, is change. And change is, even if it's change we want, can be stressful and we can avoid it, because it's the unknown. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Any sort of lifestyle change, it could seem simple on paper, like the idea of, okay, yeah, I need to start walking 10,000 steps a day. But if you're not used to doing that, just that alone, just making a habit out of that is a mild form of stress. But if you're overwhelmed by stress already, that mild form of stress can seem like a really, like, like, just a huge load of stress. I think that the mistakes sometimes we make also is not to have the support and place to help us sustain those changes, which don't seem like a lot. But life starts to happen and what goes out the window first, sadly, are the foundations, the things that support us the most, because often there aren't immediate negative consequences. And so, as humans, we focus on what is immediate and we let go. And sometimes that letting go means self-care, positive change goes out the window without this, you know, a support group or the environment that makes it easy to do that. Or, you know, other systems, so it's not just habits, it's almost like a systems and environment that will support that change. What do we know makes change successful? Accountability is a big one. Accountability and support are two of the biggest factors that lead to lasting change. Yeah, there's no doubt. That's like, for example, if somebody's addicted to a drug, or even like an alcoholic going to a rehab center, right, they have accountability and support there. And it's, you know, they create that foundation where there's abstinence from whatever they are addicted to. And then there's accountability and support. And not letting the setback. So, psychologically, there are stages of change, you know, we change, we maintain the change, then we relapse is also, you know, part of a natural cycle sometimes. And to know that and to just go, oh, you know, I haven't failed, this is the stage I'm in, I can get back on track really quickly versus, you know, I screwed up why bother or, you know, a month of being, you know, sedate when you know you should be moving because, oh, I failed, why bother? It gets discouraging. I just want to take a moment to interrupt this podcast to tell you about one of my favorite podcasts I listen to. It's called The Doctor Josh Axe, show hosted by my good friend, Dr. Josh Axe. Every week he shares how to balance your hormones, restore your gut, boost your energy and slow aging without relying on harsh medications or quick fixes. He shares both ancient biblical practices and the latest breakthroughs in nutrition, herbal remedies and lifestyle medicine. And he sits down with world renowned experts to have real unfiltered conversations you won't hear anywhere else. So, if you're ready to take control of your health, renew your energy and transform your mind, body and spirit, tune into the Dr. Josh Axe show every Monday and Thursday wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, and that brings us to like shame and guilt. Because a lot of people, you know, a lot of people's psychology is kind of warped where when they do make mistakes, right, or they relapse or they do something that they didn't want to do, right? There's certain, certain personality types will just be like, you know what? They just kind of take it as feedback. You know what? I did that, I don't know why I did that. Didn't really help me. Yeah. I'm not going to do that anymore. Whereas other people, it's like this extreme shame and guilt that they that they go through. And that's personality that also is related to, you know, childhood adverse events, what kind of support they have. But you're absolutely right. And then that that sense of shame will stop you. Guilt can sometimes motive H you. There are some positive pieces, but shame will shut you down. Yeah, no doubt about it. And so what are so what are the things we need to talk about support and community accountability, talked about that, how important that is. I mean, in my head, like any sort of self sabotage, the first step is just in a sense, it's just awareness, right? I would imagine that's kind of the first step. But what are the steps and strategies that you look at and that you coach people with on this? Well, the first thing is to again, awareness and to get off the what's wrong with me track. Get off the shame track. Get off the, you know, I'm broken track, whatever it is and look at, okay, this is data and look at patterns. What trips me up? Look at this as this is just a problem to be solved. And I know where it comes from. So what do I need to put in place? What environment? What what support groups? How do I have what do I have to change to make things easier for me? And also to really look at what is my what what's my response? You know, what I talk about because it really gets back again to that primitive brain. Our survival brain and you know, sometimes it's called your lizard brain. But I find that people don't really like relate to that. But if I talk about your toddler brain, that two-year-old brain inside, you know, are you throwing a tantrum when things go wrong? Are you avoiding? Are you, you know, ostrich in the sand? So I can use those, I have these, I call them archetypes of what your toddler is. You know, what's the predominant way you self-sabotage? And understanding that, first of all, it gets rid of a lot of shame because and we all know what two-year-olds are like. So it's like, okay, this isn't surprising. This is my two-year-old coming out. And how do I deal with my two-year-old? I have a four and a half-year-old that comes out sometimes too. I have a four and a half-year-old daughter that she has, you know, her share of meltdowns. And what makes kids meltdown? Being tired or being hungry? Yeah, right. Not feeling like they have control sometimes, right? Exactly, exactly. And so understanding where it comes from. And then for each archetype, like if you, let's say, so one of the archetypes I talk about is kind of the, the temper tantrum. Well, sometimes people will then get down on themselves for that, but recognizing that that's my go-to, and if that's my go-to, maybe I have to allow myself 60 seconds of temper tantrums make that okay and then distract myself by looking at what do I really want? What's the outcome I really want here? So just, you know, getting that adult brain back online and disrupting the pattern can really help people then look at, oh, okay, I had my little temper tantrum. I know what this is, how this works. Now I'm going to get back on, on the path. And so really it's, it's a way to rewire, but the way also that I look at it is that people sometimes think rewiring is really hard, you know, versus okay, and there's some science to back this up, that well, there are the pathways are there, they're just underused. So that sounds a lot simpler, like, oh, I just have to, you know, use this, this road that I don't usually go down, that my brain doesn't really use versus I have to do this complete rehab on my brain. And sometimes just making it easier for people makes them more likely to be able to go, okay, I can do this. Yeah, that's good. Now when we're talking about rewiring the brain, we're talking about basically the neurons that connect and communicate together. And we always say, you know, neurons that fire together, wire together. So like, sometimes certain experiences can trigger certain thoughts and behaviors. And that can create, and the more that we experience that, it becomes like a really, like a like a well-worn kind of pathway through going through the woods. And what we want to do is re-condition some of these neural pathways to where we get more desired responses, more desirable emotions, more desirable behaviors. That's what we're talking about, we're talking about rewire the brain. Yeah, so we want to do things differently, disrupt those patterns that are almost like just self-propelling. You know, we don't even think about it. We just immediately go into old patterns. You're right, like a groove, like a well-worn road. It's the easiest thing to do. It's familiar. It's common. It's comfortable. Even if it's behavior, we don't want. And that's what really throws people. You know, so why am I doing what I don't even want to do? Well, because that's the way you're wired yourself and your two-year-old is running the show right now. And we've got to get you out of that. So anything that supports doing things differently, making them easier. Again, we go back to accountability and support and learning what works for you. You know, what we all have had enough experience, hopefully, that we have some clue about, okay, what has worked for me in the past? What? You know, gee, I got through school even though I don't like, you know, discipline. How did I manage that? What worked for me there? What skills can I take from there and generalize them to over here? What do I need to put in place? Again, what has worked for me in the past is likely to work again. So making it easier for people to accomplish what seems so hard because, you know, there wouldn't be all this talk about how to develop new habits. It's easy. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, you have to have a desire to want to do it. Yeah. So another thing to do is to really get in in touch. This is more psychological trick, but to really go back to what do I value? What are my values? Do I value personal growth? Do I value taking care of business? Do I value learning? Do I value learning being healthy? And when we do things that are in opposition to what we value, we create what we call cognitive dissonance or uncomfortable. Use that discomfort to your advantage. Ooh, you know, I say I'm a healthy person. I want to be seen as a healthy person, but I'm driving through the drive through at McDonald's. This doesn't feel good. Let me get out of the drive through. That's really to be that thing. The dots. Yeah, that's good. One thing I've talked about in the past is having a why that makes you cry, right? So I think this can be really helpful too with creating that cognitive dissonance dissonance because if your why is, well, I just want to lose weight. That may not be strong enough, right? But if your why is I want my kids to look up to me and to be inspired by my life. I want them to see me as a healthy, strong person. I want to be there to lift my grandchildren out. Or you know, finding some sort of why that really creates a strong emotional response in you. We're more motivated psychologically by pain than pleasure. So one trick, one strategy is to first ask yourself what's going to happen if I don't change? What is, you know, if I don't get healthier, what's going to happen to me? I'm going to, you know, be in a nursing home at 65 because I'm obese and can't take care of myself anymore. That should scare the out of you. And then start to go, okay, that's really scary. I don't want that to happen. Here's what I do want to have happen. And here's how I can do that. And to start where you can start, you know, there's some of these are really big goals for people. And I'm comfortable. So, you know, starting where you can start, one thing I like to say is, you know, your goal may be out of your comfort zone, but your first step should be in your comfort zone. So you'll take it. Otherwise, you're not going to move. It's going to be too scary, even if it's something you want. So pick something that's doable to get that motivation going, to get the momentum going. And to see results, nothing is more motivating than seeing results. Yeah, no doubt. They say a journey of a thousand miles begins with a footstep, right? And creating that positive momentum cycle with something that's what, you know, a low hanging fruit, right? In a sense. And people tend to not give themselves credit for what's easy. So it's important to remember to keep in mind that even if it was easy, I get credit for this. I can feel good about that. This was a win, even though it wasn't hard. It doesn't have to be hard to be a big win. Yeah, you know, that's so good. That's something that, you know, my personality type, I think I naturally and lately do that. Like when I get stressed with work or something like that, sleep and actually just work helps relieve, reduce the stress. Like just feeling like I produce something, like just getting, getting something done off my to-do list helps like relieve some of that stress or anxiety. And it's like, wow, you know, yeah, it's a summer of wind. 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So the first one that I talk about is the diva, which is I want it my way and I want it now and I'm going to throw a temper tantrum. We've all seen that. And that can be of course that just takes us out of the game as well. And so allowing ourselves to, you know, rant a little bit and then get back on track can really help. What do you do with a kid who's having a temper tantrum? Distract them. Give them some fails to do. Remind them of what they really want. What's your goal here? One of the other toddler archetypes I call EOR, which is the poor me archetype, you know. Nothing ever works for me. Nothing changes. I'm just destined to be a failure. And so many people can get into that when things don't go right or they fall off the wagon to go into that poor me stance. And again, I say, go ahead, you know, do 60 seconds of poor me, get it out of your system and then start to look at what do I really want here? What's what have I accomplished in the past? And again, you know, getting anything that gets you more into adult mode again. And for the EOR, it can be also reaching out for support so that they don't feel so alone, don't feel like such a loser, don't feel so isolated. There's also the ostrich, which is if I don't see a problem, it isn't there avoidance like yeah, human condition. So again, recognizing that that's what you're doing. It's avoidance because it all doesn't always look like avoidance. You know, I'm cleaning the house and set it going to the gym. Oh, that's a good thing. Well, maybe it isn't. Maybe you're avoiding again the change. So first, again, recognition and second, taking that small first step that's doable. So that, you know, if you're too scared to go to your doctor's appointment, you know, remembering that getting back to your why I want to be healthy. I want to know what I should be doing. So let me, you know, let me get support here again. Another common theme that I see is what I call the Tasmanian devil. Like, let's just create a lot of chaos and drama. And I won't have to look at what I really need to look at. And, you know, we stir up ourselves, we stir up everybody around us. This is the, you know, well, I can't go to the gym because my dog is throwing up. And, you know, or my foot hurts or whatever it is. Let's just create a lot of drama and distraction. And again, knowing that is the first step, recognizing that that's my go to is creating a lot because it doesn't look like drama at the start. It looks real. It looks like, oh, everybody's upset, you know, sort of chicken little ish. This guy is falling. So again, to recognize that and step back from it, you know, get a little objective, start to ask questions. What, what am I upset about? What's really going on here is, you know, just a great first question is, is that true? Is it really as bad as I think it is? And what actually am I not looking at? Again, that sort of avoidance comes in. So these are all ways that we react to get out of having to change. You know, and the other archetype, and I think this is cultural. Actually, everybody wants to be the rebel, but the rebel is actually almost the hardest archetype to deal with because they don't want to be told what to do. Even if it's themselves telling them what to do. And so it can be really tricky to almost the hardest one to deal with is, is the rebel. And one of the things the rebel has to do is go back to, well, what are my choices here? I could do this. I could do the, you know, I could, you know, go to the gym. I could sit and watch TV. I could eat pizza. What do I really want to do? And, and get that sense of control back, get that sense of agency back. And again, the disruption serves to just asking those questions, serves to get us out of toddler mode, get us out of that primitive brain that is just reacting to a threat. Yeah. Yeah, that's so good. So, so, so it was that all of the, yes, so they're five. So they're five. So you said there is the diva, the diva, Igor, Igor, the ostrich, the ostrich, yep. Tasmanian devil, and the rebel, and the rebel. Okay, there we go. And people can find a quiz, right? Where they asked some questions and they can help identify which one they are. If they, if they haven't already kind of figured out in their head as you went through it. Well, here's the interesting thing that I have found doing this for many years is that it's there's an obvious toddler. I'll give you my self as an example. For the longest time, I thought I was an ewer. I thought my go-to was just, oh, the poor me. That was the toddler I recognized. The toddler you don't recognize, which for me was the ostrich was what was getting me in trouble. It was what I wasn't looking at. What I was really avoiding. Where was I bearing my head in the sand that was causing me to not reach my goals? 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Check out the university study and get 20% off at fieldofgreens.com. Use a promo code doctor jokers that's field of greens.com promo code doctor jokers to save 20% off today. Yeah, that's good. Yep. I believe I'm a fellow ostrich. And we of course all have a little bit of everything but it's the one that is causing the most problem and it's always the one like we don't immediately recognize. The one we know, we kind of know it's the one that's driving the car or driving the behavior that we don't see that is what's debrailing us. Yeah, that's really good to know. So once you recognize this, you go, I guess they could find that at your website and you get this quiz, right? Then how do you kind of walk them through what they need to do to help kind of reduce the effects of this this archetype and improve their their ability to accomplish their goals? Right, so I have a little training video for each archetype that takes you through just some simple steps to to get back into adult mode, to comfort and it's not about punishing the toddler. It's recognizing the toddler. It's providing good good comfort that supports you and and getting out of the shame of the behavior and and the steps that for each toddler help us get back on track. And does it really look different for each of those toddlers? Well, in theory, it's all the same. In practice, it's different, but they say in theory, theory and practice are the same in practice or not. So there are different tricks, you know, just like for any, it's very, very common, just for any toddler, you know, depending on what they're doing, you might have a slightly different strategy, but it always involves getting out of toddler mode. Yeah, getting our brain back online. Yeah, and probably the way that you communicate, like I have four children and sometimes the way that I communicate or at least the most effective way to communicate with each of them is different. I wouldn't say I always communicate like that, but the most effective way can be different for each of them because they have their own unique personality. Exactly. And then we learn to work with our toddler, you know, what what helps, what gets me out of this. But just I think also just the idea that I'm not crazy, I've just let my two inner two-year-old run the show for a while. Get you out of that shame, which paralyzes me, paralyzes pretty much everybody, and get you moving back in the right direction towards the health goals. And it's stressful when you start beating yourself up. It not only keeps you from getting your to your goal, it creates a whole other cascade of symptoms, of pain, you know, physical pain, emotional pain, disappointment, disappointment is huge for kids. They avoid disappointment like the plague, and that carries over into our adult and we need to recognize that. Yeah, for sure. Well, you know, this has been a great interview because again, I could give all the all the best natural health strategies, but if somebody's internal wiring in their brain, you know, as they're taking in the content that I'm creating and all the strategies I'm telling them, if they're seeing that as well, that's really stressful or, you know, if they're in a sense going back to self-sabotaging behaviors as they try this, they're not going to be successful. And so you really have to unlock that first. Yeah, and to be able to get into maintenance because, you know, motivation or that initial excitement will only take you so far. I see this in, you know, all my friends, clients, everybody, you know, we're great at the start. And then we start to lose momentum or something goes wrong, or we start to sense the danger because this is new, who will I be if I become this healthy person? And so we start the self-sabotage cycle. So it's so important to recognize that, you know, those stages of change, you know, are natural. And we just need to, it's not whether we'll fall off the wagon. It's just how quickly can we get back on? What can we put in place that will get us back into the healthy lifestyle, make it simple. And sometimes it's just simple, you know, strategies like preparing, you know, batch cooking and having good meals in the freezer for when you don't get off work to late o'clock. Yeah, exactly. Or simple things, even simpler things like going to bed early tonight, like drinking a glass of water, right? And when you're craving sugar, just go and drink a glass of water instead, like that alone will fill your stomach, you'll release grelin, which is, or you'll block, you'll inhibit grelin release, which is your hunger hormone, you'll have less cravings. So just something simple like that sometimes going out for a walk, getting out in fresh air, getting in the sun. Start creating stretching can create a positive momentum cycle that will make the next healthy practice easier. Oh yeah. And we want it, like I said, we want it to be easy. We want to be able to maintain. So another simple strategy is, and this works in, you know, going back to like addiction and change, keep some, keep it on your radar. You know, keep a picture on your refrigerator of, you know, when you, when you felt that you're best, and remember that we need these cues to constantly remember that, oh, this is what I'm going for. Yeah, exactly. And you can link, like you were talking about linking pain to the bad behaviors, and linking positive emotions and inspiration to positive behaviors. Yeah, looking at what we don't want, that pain will drive us more initially than, oh, I just want to be healthy. Well, yeah, that sounds great, but what's going to happen when you, you know, can't take care of yourself. Not captivating. Yeah. Yeah, needs to be captivating, needs to scare us, or really give a positive, like a strong positive emotion to us. Absolutely. Yeah, so that's so important. Well, Dr. Audrey Schnell has been a wonderful interview. Again, people can find more information at Audrey Schnell.com. That's SCH, NEL.com. They can find that self sabotage archetype quiz there at the website. And this has been really enlightening guys. You can really rewire your brain and break free from the pattern of self sabotage. Any last words here for our audience, Dr. Audrey? I will just go back to what we almost started talking about, which was get the foundation in place, which means sleep, be it your best, and don't go down the road of being yourself up when things don't go as planned. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, give yourself grace, right? That's key. Key and a lot of gold stars, even for simple stuff. Yeah, so true. Well, this has been great. Again, guys, check out the website Audrey Schnell.com for Dr. Audrey Schnell and her archetype quiz. So check that out and we'll see you guys in a future interview. Be blessed, everybody. Well, that's all for this show. And I want to thank you again for spending your valuable time with me today. And if there was something you heard in this interview, that you have questions on or you want to dive in a deeper, then doctorjokers.com is the best place to go. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider taking just a quick moment and giving us a great review. Your reviews help us influence more people and transform more lives. And if you took something valuable away from this episode, then please share it with someone in your life who know it can help. We'll see you soon on a future podcast. Be blessed, everybody.