Brains on Universe. Have you heard the news? Smash Boom Best is now independent. We're so excited to be back with an epic new season, and it's all thanks to our SmartiePass members. They're the big-hearted helpers who power us by joining at SmartiePass.org. You can be one of them. Your support helps pay our debaters and sound designers, so we can keep making the fun and fact-filled shows your family loves. Plus, you get ad-free versions of all of our shows, bonus stuff, and access to virtual hangs with me, Molly. Again, that's SmartiePass.org. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Now, on with the show. From the Brains Behind Brains on, it's Smash Boom Best. The show for people with big opinions. Hi, I'm Molly Bloom, and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today, we're pitting two iconic comic book characters against each other. It's Black Panther vs. Wonder Woman. Both are super powerful. Both have starred in super movies, but only one can win this super debate. Here to go wild for Wonder Woman is actor Tiffany Smith. Hey, everybody. I am absolutely ready to lasso this debate, and I'm just gonna say it now. That's the absolute truth. And bringing it for Black Panther is comedian and producer Otto and Woldeslossy. Bow before the power of the Black Panther. Ooh, it's a bird, it's a plane, it's our judge Lola from Minneapolis. They have a pet rabbit named Hopper and three cats, Walter, Lumpy, and Fiona. Lola loves longboarding and reading the Hunger Games books, and is a triple threat on the stage. Welcome to the show, Lola. Okay, please tell me, what does it mean that you're a triple threat? Uh, I can sing, dance, and act. Incredible. What productions are you in these days? Right now, my high school, I'm in Hades Town. I'm playing for Stephanie. Incredible. That's an amazing part. So, you also have a rabbit and three cats. Yeah. Do they get along? Um, the cats don't know the rabbit exists. Okay. But the cats get along with each other. That's good. Does the rabbit know the cats exist? Um, I think he kinda does, they meow a lot, so. Okay. And so the rabbit's kinda like, oh, I hear some cats, or maybe enemies, we don't know, but they don't know each other, so that's fine. Exactly. So, longboarding sounds very cool. Can you tell me what it is and how you do it? So, basically, uh, longboarding, it's like skateboarding, except not as crazy, like, jump tricks. There's more of, like, you, like, are, like, on the board, and then you run to the side of the board. It's really, really cool. I highly recommend looking up some videos. Very, very cool. Will Lola pick Wonder Woman for the win, or will they decide Black Panther is best? Let's find out. But first, here are the rules. Every debate consists of four rounds, the Declaration of Greatness, the Microround, the Sneak Attack, and the Final Six. After each round, our judge Lola will award points to the team that impresses them the most, but they'll keep their decisions top secret until the end of the debate. Listeners, we want you to judge too. Mark down your points as you listen. At the end of the show, head to our website, smashboom.org, and vote for whichever team you think won. Okay, Otto, Tiffany, and Lola. Are you ready? I think so. I am so ready. Let's do it. Then it's time for the… Declaration of Greatness. In this round, our debaters will present a well-crafted, immersive argument in favor of their side. Then they'll each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements. We've up to coin, and Otto, on your up first. Tell us why you think Black Panther is the superhero supreme. Please prepare for takeoff. Buckle up. The flight is about to start. Where are we going? Wakanda, home of Black Panther. I know, I know, it's notoriously hard to get an invite. But once I told them it was for Smash Room Best, they sent me this private jet to pick me up. You see, Black Panther has resources. He's the king of the African nation Wakanda. His real name is T'Challa, and he's battled baddies and led a country in comics, cartoons, and movies for over 60 years. Which is reason number one, he's the best. He's more than a hero, he's a leader. Sometimes that means going punch for a punch with a supervillain. Other times it means working with presidents and prime ministers. Or settling squabbles between different groups in Wakanda. People trust him because he's a noble, dedicated, and fair guy. Doesn't hurt that he's a certifiable genius, matching wits with the likes of Tony Stark and Reed Richards of the Fantastic Four. If you would like a beverage or snack, simply describe what you want, and our Michelin star rated food generator will prepare it for you. Amazing, this plane has it all. Seats with built-in leg massagers. An epic sound system? I FEEL THE BASE IN MY BONES! And instead of little screens, you watch movies as high definition holograms, projected out of cameo beads. It's all Wakandan technology, which rings me to my next point. Black Panther has the coolest tech. Lots of heroes are strong and fast, so is Black Panther, thanks to the special herb he took. But he's also got a suit made of vibranium. That's a metal that can absorb energy and blast it back out later. He's got razor sharp claws, a mask with built-in communication equipment, and infrared vision. Plus, he fights alongside his sister Shuri, who designed all kinds of cool gadgets. Please put your tray in the upright position. We are under attack. That does not sound good. Out my window, I can see a fleet of sky pirates. They're probably trying to use their jet as cover to get into Wakanda. Lots of villains want to invade the place to steal vibranium. But they usually fail, because look, it's the Wakandan army, led by the Dora Milaje, Wakanda's all-female Special Forces unit. They are 50% soldier, 50% spy, and if you mess with them, 100% your worst nightmare. Phew, that was fast. And a good example of my next point. Black Panther has a top-tier team between Shuri, the Dora Milaje, and all the scientists, warriors, and elders of Wakanda. T'Challa has a vast amount of skill and wisdom to tap into. It adds up to a hero who can do it all. Now, before we land, should I watch a movie? Hmm, how about 2018's Black Panther? It was groundbreaking. The first superhero film to be nominated as Best Picture at the Oscars. They had a predominantly black creative team, and for kids of color who usually don't see themselves represented on screen, it showed them a world where black heroes led the way. Huh, that was quick. I cannot wait to be in the land of a hero who is a powerful, fair leader, who uses the coolest tech, who has the toughest team, and who's inspired kids around the world. So, if you ask me how long I'd like to stay, I'll say, in Wakanda, forever. Incredible work. We got to go on a plane to Wakanda. Lola, what stood out to you about Otteron's Declaration of Greatness? Um, I mean, I really liked how he talked about how T'Challa can really just do it all, how he has super cool technology, a top-tier team, and is strong and fast. And also the fact that, yeah, like, he's king and, like, a superhero at the same time, which the time management skills must be incredible. Very true. All right, Tiffany, you get 30 seconds to use your lasso of logic against those arguments, and your 30 seconds begins now. I mean, I have to say, it's not a bad argument. Black Panther is pretty incredible, but with Wonder Woman, she also has all of her Amazonian warriors. I would actually love to see the Dormulage and the Amazons come together to defeat some baddies, if that could happen. But I have to say, just being a woman and wanting to see girl power, I mean, Wonder Woman always wins the day for me. Not saying anything bad about Black Panther, because he's awesome, but I'm still on Wonder Woman's side. Mm-hmm. And time. Yeah, so, I mean, like, if you want a route for, like, Powerful Women, you're still on Team Black Panther, because the Black Panther is a title that's been held by women before, like, his sister Shuri, she was a Black Panther for a little bit, and that was great. Also, it's worth noting that he's also, like, a really incredible, like, general, so he's always fighting with the Dormulage. So, like, he's got this incredible group of people with him. Yeah. Interesting. I mean, I also am not sure how much time he's spent with the everyday person, because he has grown up and spent most of his time in a secret space. Wonder Woman, yes, she grew up on Themyscira, but she spent time with the everyday people, and for me, she has a closer connection to, like, us as humans. Well, we've seen a lot of action, and there's a lot more to come. We're gonna be right back. MUSIC Best. Smash. Smash. Best. And we are back. We just heard all about Black Panther, but now it's time to hear why Wonder Woman is wonderful. Take it away, Tiffany. I remember when I first saw Wonder Woman. Okay, it wasn't the actual Wonder Woman, but it was a superhero. My mom. For Halloween, she dressed up as this super-colorful, powerful, butt-kicking woman with a golden lasso, long, black-flowing hair, but my mom kept on her own glasses. She looked like the kind of hero who would send the bad guys running home to their own mommies. Mom said the character's name was Wonder Woman, and I knew instantly if my mom thought she was cool, I would, too. Of course, mom was right. Wonder Woman is a top-tier role model. MUSIC Wonder Woman is an icon, a powerhouse hero from DC Comics. Her alter ego is Diana Prince, and she has been saving the day for over 80 years. How does she do it? Well, it could be her centuries of experience as an Amazonian warrior, her bulletproof bracelets, and her tiara, which she can fling like a boomerang. MUSIC Or her extremely long list of god-like superpowers, which she literally got from the Greek gods. MUSIC MUSIC MUSIC MUSIC MUSIC Did someone say Greek gods? Holy Zeus, I sure did. I'm talking about Wonder Woman's powers. Allow me, the great and mighty Zeus, to help you, mortal. You see, she is my daughter. So I know all about her powers, like super strength, flight, invulnerability, super sight, hyper-intelligence, astral projection, heightened senses, immortality, and she can talk to animals, including dinosaurs. Well, thanks for the info, mighty Zeus. I know, I'm biased, but Wonder Woman should totally win this one. Yeah, I think so too. MUSIC Everyone watch out! This evil Tony! Oh no, a super villain right in the middle of my declaration? With my asteroid ray, I will summon a massive asteroid. The earth is doomed, doomed! Not on my watch. It's Wonder Woman! I can just fly into space and crush the asteroid. Well, then I'll just unleash my horde of dinosaurs onto the public. I can talk to dinosaurs, so I'll just politely ask them to stop. You can talk to... Okay, I'm not even gonna unpack that. You know what, I give up. I'm just gonna go home. Not so fast. Thanks to the unbreakable lasso of truth, you're not going anywhere. You have an unbreakable rope that compels people to tell the truth? Is there anything else I should know about you? I also have an invisible jet and in some storylines, a kangaroo sidekick. Okay, it is so cool we got to see that. And speaking of the lasso of truth, that's gotta be one of the coolest artifacts in fiction. Imagine all the good you could do if you had a rope that would force the truth out of scammers, liars, cheats, and all those people who make those AI videos of raccoons jumping on trampolines. It looks so cute! Honestly, I think we need that lasso more than ever. Wonder Woman's also been in multiple TV shows and movies, and the United Nations named her an official ambassador for the empowerment of women and girls. Oh, and did I mention she's got her own stamp? Wow! A UN ambassador? Okay, I'm actually kind of honored she took the time to defeat me. Sounds like Wonder Woman leads a pretty busy life. She sure does, Evil Tony. But that's the Wonder Woman way. She may be the child of Greek gods, but she's always there for us as humans. She's powerful, but her greatest strengths are her heart and her mind. She's selfless, caring, and kind, and she often stops villains just with her wits rather than brute force. No wonder my mom looked up to her. And no wonder I do too. Plus, come on, she talks to dinos! What more could you want in a hero? Wow, an action-packed declaration of greatness for Wonder Woman. Lola, what's it out to you about Tiffany's argument? I mean, all of Wonder Woman's really cool abilities like flight, her super strength, and also Wonder Woman can talk to animals, which ever since I was little, that's always the super power, sorry, that I would have picked. So yeah, this is definitely making my decision way harder. It's a very tough one. I don't know, it is time for your rebuttal. Pounds like a panther on Tiffany's arguments. You got 30 seconds and your time starts right now. First things first, Wonder Woman has all the powers. She's got too many powers. It seems like if there's a power, Wonder Woman already has it. It feels like her real superpower is just not thinking of it like a very specific superpower. Also, the daughter of Zeus, that makes her like what, the original Neppo baby? I want a superhero that's like pulling themselves up by the bootstraps and making it happen. Also, when would you need to talk to dinosaurs? I watched a couple of movies where dinosaurs were brought back and nothing good came from it. So having the argument that she has too many powers is just silly. Women are notoriously great at multitasking and Wonder Woman is no different. And the Neppo baby thing, yeah, she's no stranger to spending time with the gods, which makes her a perfect person when any of those gods do try and attack Earth or when any other royal people come and try to attack because she can talk to them, because she can relate to them. But like I said, she also spends time with all of us who are not royals, who are not gods. So, I mean, she's the best case scenario of a Neppo baby, I have to say. Wait, hold on. I'm suddenly realizing if you're the daughter of a god, are you a person or are you like a demi god? She's a demi god, human. She's both. Listen, I'm a mixed kid and Wonder Woman's a mixed kid and it makes perfect sense to me. All right, I like that. I like that a lot actually. Okay, this is a tough decision, Lola. I do not envy you having to award some points right now, but please award a couple of points. Please give one point to the declaration of greatness that you liked best and one point to the rebuttal that won you over. You get to decide what makes a winning argument. Did one team's jokes make you giggle? Was another team's logic impeccable? Award your points, but don't tell us who they're going to. Have you made your decision? Uh, yes. Okay, Tiffany and Otteron, how are you two feeling so far? I'm feeling very good. I feel pretty good. I mean, as I'm standing here, I'm also thinking, I wish I had Wonder Woman's powers so I could talk to my dog. Like, that is peak. That is another peak thing about Wonder Woman's powers. She could come to your house and tell you what your pets are thinking. That would be useful. Yeah. And you know, in that same vein, I wish I had like a big, like, council or tribe that I could turn to. Like the Black Panther. Or like the Amazons. Because I feel like they'd give me really good advice. The Amazons? It is time for a quick break, stretch those biceps and make sure there's no citizens in need of saving. And we'll be right back with more Smash Boom Best. You're listening to State of Debate, home to rage and rhetoric and awe-inspiring argumentation. Batter up, it's Taylor Lincoln. And hut, hut, hike. Todd Douglas here too. And we're calling foul on the logical fallacy that happened at the hockey rink. A logical fallacy is a bogus argument that makes your point easy to block. This one was the bandwagon effect. That's when you argue something is right, just because it's popular. Which obviously isn't true. Strap on your ice skates and let's check it out. Alright team, we've only got two minutes left. Let's keep the gameplay simple. Be quick, pass a lot and watch your player, not the puck. That's the best way to win this match. Oh, hear me out coach. We do the flying of E. The flying what? It's the hot new hockey move. The whole team forms up like a V. You know how like ducks fly in the sky? Then we drive in at the goal. It looks cool, it's intimidating and it'll guarantee you win. That sounds really easy to thwart actually. You just skate around the V or just push through an opening and you've got a clear shot at the goal. It'll lose us the match for sure. No coach, no. It's gonna work because everyone is doing it right now. It's the coolest move. Who's with me? Crack, crack, crack, crack. Ooh, that bad logic deserves a penalty for sure. Yeah, just because a play is popular doesn't mean it's good. Classic bandwagon fallacy. If you want to shoot and score, argue with facts, not popularity contests. That play will always win the day. Thanks for joining us and we'll see you next time on... State of Debate! Smash. Boom. The best. You're listening to Smash Boom Best, I'm your host Molly Blue. And I'm your judge Lola. And we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners like this one. My name is Sydney and I'm from Encino, California. My debate idea is Harry Potter vs. Marvel. Two fan favorite franchises, but which is best? We'll hear who Sydney thinks should win at the end of the show. And now it's back to our debate, Black Panther vs. Wonder Woman. That's right, and it's time for round two. The... Micro round. It's time for a fact-off. Tiffany and Audron will each get three chances to make a micro argument backed by a cool factor idea. Audron went first-last, so Tiffany, you're gonna start us off. Let's hear your first fact about Wonder Woman. So Wonder Woman may have grown up Princess of the Island of Themyscira, but she's no royal like Black Panther. She's had jobs. In one storyline, she lost her home and income. Instead of asking Batman or any of her parents, Nepo Baby stuff for alone, she got a job at a fast food place called Taco Wiz. She worked there for months and felt that feeding people was noble and gratifying work. She's grounded and probably makes a mean burrito. And like, because she has the lasso of truth, whenever I feel like I don't know what I want to eat, I feel like she could just wrap me in it and it would tell me exactly what kind of burrito I wanted. Like, that's ideal. How about this? You've heard of a power couple. What about a super power couple? In the comics, T'Challa the Black Panther, married Storm of the X-Men. That's a super-powered king, marrying a goddess who controls the weather. And what's worse is that they had to separate because of conflict and war. They're lost lovers. I mean, I'm not going to lie. I would love to hang out with Storm, too. Wonder Woman was based in part on a real Wonder Woman. Creator William Martson based the character partly on suffragettes, women who fought for the right to vote. And also, on his very own wife, Elizabeth Howlin-Martson, she was a psychologist and an attorney, and she actually helped him with Wonder Woman projects. The two even developed the lie detector test together, which is like them trying to make the real lasso of truth. So if you want to talk about power couples, the couple that created Wonder Woman is a real power couple. Hmm. Hmm. If you like a great pairing or a team like that, you'll be happy to hear this. Everyone wants Black Panther on their team. To Chala join the Avengers in the early days of the team in the comics. He was also part of the Fantastic Four for a while. He was also part of the Illuminati, a super-seeker group of the smartest, most powerful Marvel heroes. Basically, if you're teaming up with the best, he's on the- he's at the top of your list. I just got to say, like, you want to talk about having too many powers. He has too many teams he's a part of. How is he going to show up for all of that? There's too many. I also have to say, what I love so much about Wonder Woman is she's all about actually reforming baddies. She doesn't just get the villains and throw them in jail. Wonder Woman is known to send female villains to a place called Reform Island or Transformation Island to help teach them to be better, to be good. Because she looks out for a lady who went astray. And she feels like the world will finally know peace when powerful women are in positions of power, rather than just locked up. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. What I'm hearing is that you enjoy creating change in others, which is why I know you'll love to hear this. Black Panther was the first black superhero in mainstream comics. He debuted in the mid-1960s, and his name has nothing to do with the political group called the Black Panthers that also formed around then. But Marvel tried changing his name to the Black Leopard to distance away from the political party, but it didn't stick because he's so great. So Black Leopard doesn't sound as good anyway. Wonder Woman can talk to animals, so whether he's a Panther or a Leopard, she could still talk to him. Yeah. So Lola, what's it out to you about those facts? I mean, there were so many interesting facts that I didn't know about before, like how T'Challa married Storm and how they had to separate because of war, which is crazy. And also about how Wonder Woman is based on a real movement by the Suffragettes. Yeah. Yeah, just was so many good facts. Incredible, incredible stuff. But Lola, I'm sorry to say, only one team can get a point for this micro round. No. I'm so sorry. The criteria are totally subjective and totally up to you. Please award your point. Have you made your decision? Yes. Great. Keep it secret and we're going to be right back. This superhero showdown is packing a punch, so let's keep it going. It's time for the... Sneak Attack. This is our improvised round where debaters have to respond to a challenge on the spot. Today's sneak attack is called Haiku for you. We'd like you to write a haiku singing the praises of your side. Haiku is a traditional form of Japanese poetry that has five syllables in the first line, seven syllables in the second, and five in the third. Tiffany went first last round, so Adron, you're up. Let's hear your poetry for the Panther. Nice. And have cool metal. Excellent work. All right, Tiffany, give us 17 syllables to wow us for Wonder Woman. Amazon warrior, lasso burning bright with truth. Peace forged through her strength. Ooh, very nice. Two excellent poems. Very impressed with your poetry skills. Seriously. But Lola, I'm so sorry. Again, only one of them can get a point. No. They're really making this hard for you today. Seriously. Please think about which side's poem impressed you the most and award your fourth point. Have you made your decision? Yes. Great. Then it's time for our final round. The final six. In this round, each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side. Tiffany, let's hear yours. What's your last words for Wonder Woman? My last words for Wonder Woman are Wonder Woman, strength, truth, and wisdom. Very nice. All right, Otto, on the last chance to preach for the Panther. Black Panther, king, champion, cat person. Oh, very good. Okay, Lola, time to award a final point for your final six. Have you awarded your point? Yes, I think so. Okay, tally up those points. Are you ready to crown one hero, the Smash Boom Best? Yes. All right, drum roll, please. And the winner is... Black Panther. It was really, really close. What? Oh my gosh. Did it come down to a final point? Yeah, it came down to the final point. Oh my gosh. As close as close can be. This was a tough debate today. Tiffany, you brought up so many incredible points about Wonder Woman. She's more than just a fighter. She's a daughter, a leader, inspiration to women all over the world. Also, I did not know that her creators also invented the lie detector. That's amazing. You're amazing for bringing that up. Thank you. Out on, you did a great job, honestly, during the debate. I just kept feeling more and more like, can I just debate for both of them? Can they just win all the contests together? Can we partner them together? There's so many cool facts about Black Panther. And I just have to say, what I love so much about both these characters is it makes characters where more people can see themselves in comics and in superheroes. And that's so important. So I think you did a great job of highlighting a ton of the awesome stuff that is Black Panther. Thank you. That is it for today's debate battle. Lola crowned Black Panther the Smash Boom Best, but what about you? Head to smashboom.org and vote to tell us who you think won. This episode was produced by me, Molly Bloom, and Mark Sanchez. It was sound designed by Mark Sanchez, and he also wrote our theme song. We had engineering help from Jackson at Soft Cult Studio. Our announcer is Marley Floyer-Ricker Otto, and we want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross and Taylor Kaufman. Otto, is there anyone you'd like to give a shout out to today? Yeah, I want to give a special shout out to my mom, the, I would say the Black Panther in my life. I also want to give a special shout out to my sister. She is the sherry of my life somehow. That analogy isn't spot on perfect, but it's from the heart. That's great. And Tiffany, any special thanks for shout outs? So I'm going to give a shout out to my parents, because my mom, like I said, is the one who introduced me to Wonder Woman and helped start my love for this amazing character. And then another shout out to my dad, because he's the one who really introduced me to comic books. I remember watching the X-Men cartoon for the first time and seeing Storm on screen and realizing like, oh, I could be a superhero. And then he was like, well, if you want to read more stories, here are the comics. So special shout out to both my parents for introducing me to this amazing world of superheroes and comics. I love that. Lola, do you want to give any special things? Yes. I want to give a special thank you to my mom who brought me here. Yeah, this was really, really fun. Before we go, let's check in and see who Sidney Thang should win the debate between Harry Potter and Marvel. I think Harry Potter would win, because I find magic more interesting. And I think that wizards are cooler than superheroes. If you're between the ages of 13 and 18 and you'd like to be a judge, or if you're any age and you have an idea for a knockdown drag out debate, head to smashboom.org slash contact and drop us a line. And if you're a fan of the show and wanted to keep going, head to smartypass.org to subscribe. This is the final episode of this season of Smash Boom Best. It has been so much fun. We are going to be back in May with a brand new season. We can't wait for you to hear it. Bye-bye. See you later. Bye-bye. It's Smash Boom Best. It's Smash Boom Best.
