Why did the FBI keep tabs on high school students?

This is Civics 101. I'm Hannah McCarthy. So about a week ago, I'm doing my thing. My thing being scouring the internet for truths about the United States because there is always, always something I may have missed, something that has just happened, something that has just come to light. And I found this article by an historian named Dr. Aaron Fountain Jr. Oh, so my name is Aaron Fountain and I am a historian of 20th century American history and recently published a book on high school student activism in the 1960s and 70s. Aaron's book is called High School Students Unite, Teen Activism, Education Reform and FBI Surveillance in Postwar America. And that article of his? It was titled, Newly Declassified Records Suggest Parents Collaborated with the FBI to Spy on Their Rebellious Teens During the 1960s. So yeah, I had to talk to Erin. www.shopify.net That's Shopify.nl. It's time to see what you can accomplish with Shopify by your side. Starting a business can be overwhelming. You're juggling multiple roles, designer, marketer, logistics manager, all while bringing your vision to life. Shopify helps millions of business sell online. Build fast with templates and AI descriptions and photos, inventory and shipping. Sign up for your one euro per month trial and start selling today at Shopify.nl. That's Shopify.nl. It's time to see what you can accomplish with Shopify by your side. So Aaron Fountain discovered that the FBI was surveilling high school students in the 1960s. And that parents would sometimes be the ones tipping the FBI off. And this was something that not many people knew, including some of the very students who were being surveilled. So first, I wanted to know why Aaron was focusing on high school students and their activism in the 1960s to begin with. Oh, well, let me just say I was not an activist in high school because I attended eight different schools in three states. So not really possible. However, it really started by accident. I came across a book by political scientist Richard Ellis called To the Pledge. And in several pages in one chapter, he talks about junior high and high school students who sat during the Pledge of Allegiance as a form of political protest in the 1960s and 70s. And it made me just wonder, well, what were the stories behind those court cases? So during that process, I saw so many passing references to high school students involved in civil rights and anti-Vietnam War activism. So it made me ask, well, how did the Vietnam War affect students, teachers, and administrators? And I wrote a paper on the San Francisco Bay Area on that very topic. And yeah, doing my doctoral dissertation on high school student activism in the San Francisco Bay Area. But the book, however, that I published is nationwide. And in terms of what is actually going on in the country at this time, I know that the 1960s or the civil rights era can be this kind of catch-all term for social, political, global unrest and activism and change. But Aaron, can you just paint us a picture of how this period of time precipitated high school civic action? Well, in 1960s, you have a record number of teenagers enrolled in secondary school. I know high school is now like a universal experience, but prior to the 1960s, less than half of the adult population in the United States had a high school diploma. It was not as important to get a good paying job. However, after World War II, receiving a secondary education became much more important in our understandings of modern citizenship and to be a productive member in society. But also coming out, you know, you have the civil rights movement and you get the burgeoning anti-Vietnam War movement. And it's teenagers who are participating in both movements and they bring these partisan politics to campus and they start to clash with school administrators who were determined to keep those type of activities off campus. Not to upset parents, not to upset the school board because, you know, you want to keep your job if you're an administrator. And it just this constant clash going back and forth between whether students have constitutional rights to engage in political activism, have free speech in the campus newspaper, etc. And school administrators who look at students more paternalistic and parents who argue that at school just as democratic as a household, you know, punish your kid and put them on trial. Just, you know, you do whatever your parents tell you. So that's what comes out. And over time, you get this very unique brand of high school student radicalism. And there's two moving parts of this ideology. The first one is that high school students constitute an oppressed group analogous to poor people, minorities and women. And the second is that you couldn't truly reform society unless you first reform the high schools. Did you get the sense that these students were aware that they were a member of an oppressed group? Oh, yeah. When you read the underground newspapers, leaflets, flyers are calling their schools prisons and concentration camps. They refer to them as like factories that just churn out future soldiers to go into the Vietnam War. And anyone is like, well, are we citizens? Do we have like free speech, the right to assemble, freedom of the press? And this occurs gradually. It's not like an overnight realization. And I know that college campus activism was a major media focus in the civil rights era. Were high school students coming into this on their own or was this something they were borrowing from their older counterparts? So high school student activism then and now is hyper local. Students are largely responding to issues that affect their everyday lives. And when you think about controversies that occur in a school, it usually doesn't spill out beyond like a school board or individual campus. It remains confined to that. So because they're hyper local, they're not seen as national stories. However, by 1968 and especially in 69 and 70, there was a lot of reports on student uprisings in high school. And there is like credibility behind that. There was definitely a record number of student walkouts, boycotts, protests, and sit-ins or whatever after Dr. King's assassination. In 1968, students start to form more independent student organizations and underground newspapers have a stronger network by 1968. However, it was not a spillover effect. Now, I should say, high school students are not adversarial to college students. They actually work alongside them, but there's a lot of distrust. So for a 16 year old, somebody who is 20 year old is like old. In fact, some of the people I interviewed, they told me like, yeah, the organizer, they were like 2021. But as teenagers, we thought they were just old guys. So, I mean, teenagers, they definitely align with adults, but for the most part, they seek assistance from them. They're not letting them run their affairs. So as teenagers, they don't have access to like media and printing press. So they have to go to them for that type of help. High school student activism, when it reaches the national attention, it's already a full blown movement. In fact, teenagers learn that there is a movement fomenting from high schools by about a year or two before the national press does. You know, it is hard enough for practiced adults to organize and find consensus and then do something with that in terms of civic action. And how did high school students who maybe did not yet have any kind of experience with that figure out how to do it? Oh, I'll be honest. They're just as messy as adults are. There's a lot of ideological divisions. I mean, not to mention their kids. So as a person who I interviewed told me that, you know, there was jealousy. There was romance like you wanted to so and so like me or not. there's like immaturity and some of the males and some independent student groups are quite sexist to their female counterparts so it's all really messy at the end of the day but what brings them together is like they all agree that okay we have to reform the school so like you can generally get a consensus among students to like reform dress code like students regardless whether they were political or not just did not like the fact that girls couldn't wear pants and boys had to keep their hair at a certain length in the bands against afros. So, you know, no student group or underground newspaper or protest gets like the majority of support, but they do get enough support to trigger a pretty vigorous reaction from people in power. Oh yeah And we going to get to that But in terms of what actually you know got these students that reaction what were they activating around You know was it about national issues you know the Vietnam War civil rights or was this about what was going on in their own schools So it's actually a mix of both. So one thing that was pretty common is that students would ask their school principals to allow like an anti-war speaker to come speak at the school to balance out a visit from a military recruiter. And they had various successes and shortcomings when it came to that um so but you see these like you know there's national issues but again it's it's in this local context and the same thing with like you know black power a lot of students there's a lot of similarities between a lot of black student protests where they're asking for like you know black teacher black administrator black history courses to be taught in schools and um so food but however while the overlap there also are local concerns too so they want like you know doors on the bathroom stalls which is very basic concern um you know they ask for like police officers to be removed from campus in many urban school districts this is when you start to see school administrators become much more reliant on law enforcement to handle everyday disciplinary matters or they'll ask for like access to a stadium that's adjacent to the school so it's similar and a lot of these protests are quite similar they're reacting to a lot of national stuff is always shaped by what's ever going on locally. So it's a combination of both that they reacted to. Okay, law enforcement in schools. Why was it that administrators were turning to this outside force to navigate what was going on in their classrooms and hallways? That's the main point in my book where I talk about like the expansion of student rights coincided with the modernization of school security. So school police, there's a history going back to 19 the mid-1950s when tucson arizona is the first school district to um experiment with a school resource officer but by the 1960s especially with urban uprisings um you have a lot of protests that are coming out of high school a lot of racial protests so you have desegregation and in desegregated schools or schools that were newly integrated you get a lot of racial violence and you also in those schools you get a lot of protests coming from black students latino students asian students and white students as well native american students too So in response with all the social unrest coming from the high school, you get a lot of pressure from parents, from teachers, school administrators, as well as the local newspapers in whatever respective city demanding that order needs to be maintained in the high school. So school administrators, they don't initially bring cops into school. They try like hall monitors at parents patrol or they lock the doors on campus to keep quote unquote outside agitators out. And increasingly, what you start to see is that police officers in the department in many cities start to patrol schools. But also you get undercover cops, too. The NYPD and the New Orleans Police Department were quite open about the fact that they had young officers with cherubic appearances masquerading themselves as seniors who would attend school and eventually investigate student activists. I can only imagine what it might feel like to learn that the person who you thought was a friend or an ally is actually an officer in disguise investigating you. Who were these students? You know, I know your book tells the stories of so many individuals in this era. Can you share a story about someone who really stood out to you? Oh, yeah. One of my favorite characters in my book is Bruce Triggs, a kid from New York City, all American Boy Scout. You know, he's from a Jewish background. World War Two is quite celebrated in his household. And, you know, he joins the Boy Scouts and he believes at a very young age that the United States is, you know, a moral example, a good force for the world and that he could do no wrong. And what happens is that his family moves to Queens and he attends a different school where he meets students who smoke marijuana, who are involved in like the anti-war movement. And he eventually dates a girl, a girl in high school who was an anti-war activist. She introduced to him Shea Guerrero and he asked like, hey, he's a communist, isn't he? She's like, you bet he is. And in his head, he's like, this is just too much. I can't support a communist. Are you crazy? and what happens is that he eventually goes to an anti-war conference where a schism occurs and normally as he recalls most people would be turned off but he was just blown away but the turning point is when he attends the democratic national convention in chicago and when the riot breaks out he finds himself he gets punched in the face by a police officer and from well he was already kind of gradually shifting that was the catalyst and then he comes back to new york as a full-blown radical and helped find the New York High School Student Union, which leads to a pretty chaotic year in New York City schools in 1968 and 1969. So that's definitely one of my favorite characters to write about, the person who goes from being a very all-American Boy Scout to a political radical. Alright, so we got to talk about the FBI. Because kids like Bruce Triggs were Clearly setting the adults in the room on it. And we're going to get to that after a quick break. 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You're juggling multiple roles, designer, marketer, logistics manager, all while bringing your vision to life. Shopify helps millions of business sell online. Build fast with templates and AI descriptions and photos, inventory and shipping. Sign up for your one euro per month trial and Start selling today at Shopify.nl. That's Shopify.nl. It's time to see what you can accomplish with Shopify by your side. Starting a business can be overwhelming. You're juggling multiple roles, designer, marketer, logistics manager, all while bringing your vision to life. Shopify helps millions of business sell online. Build fast with templates and AI descriptions and photos, inventory and shipping. Sign up for your one euro per month trial and start selling today at Shopify.nl. That's Shopify.nl. It's time to see what you can accomplish with Shopify by your side. We're back. You're listening to Civics 101. And Civics 101, by the way, is a non-profit podcast. And maybe one day we should make an episode that gets into the specifics of what a non-profit really is. But the main point here is that we are not, you know, making a profit for ourselves or for anyone else. Whatever money we receive is used to pay our journalists and pay the people who keep New Hampshire Public Radio functioning and make sure we have the basic gear to record people's voices and share those voices with the public. Our whole reason for existing is to share with you what is happening in the world now and what happened in the world in the past so that you can better understand your world. So if you have the ability to contribute to that effort, please consider making a donation at civics101podcast.org. You can just click the red bar at the top of the homepage to do that And just a shout out to the many many listeners who have already done that who make sure that we can do this work every day You know you are proof positive that the world is not all about profit It is also about people education and civic empowerment All right back to the show I am talking with Erin Fountain Jr., historian and author of High School Students Unite, Teen Activism, Education Reform, and FBI Surveillance in Post-War America. Aaron put in an immense amount of work to figure out what was going on re-students and the Federal Bureau of Investigation during the post-war era, during the 60s and the 70s. And given the fact that I had never heard of the FBI surveilling high school students before, I wanted to know what first tipped Aaron off. oh yeah well it came across when i was going through an underground newspaper from palo alto california and there was a group called the united student movement and in the interview the two people who were interviewed or several i don't i forget how many they kind of bragged about being spied on by the fbi as teenagers like we're bad you know what so i submitted a four-year request on that very group was told nothing existed so when i got to graduate school i wrote a seminar our paper on a New York high school student union, which is actually in a book. And a former member gave me about 80 some pages of memorabilia. And two of those pages were the group's FBI file. My jaw immediately dropped because I'm like, oh, what I long suspected is finally confirmed. So I went to a professor who gave me a FOIA template and I submitted one on the New York high school student union, but realized I was too late because all the files were destroyed in 79, 2010 and April, 2014. I had just submitted that request August of that very year. So realizing that, okay, the National Archives and Record Administration's actively destroyed documents, let me submit FOIA requests on all the groups I know about. I immediately got positive results from Milwaukee, Minnesota, El Paso, Texas, including the United Student Movement when I was originally told nothing existed. And yeah, over time, it wasn't like a eureka moment. I would start to expand and I submitted FOIA requests on high school underground newspapers and schools that had civil unrest or racial violence. And I started to look at suburban and rural areas. And over the course of 10 years, I found well over 370 high school groups under some form of surveillance or counterintelligence operation. Now, if you count the amount of students who as young as 14 who had an FBI file, as well as police departments, the U.S. military and state legislators who spied on teenagers, then that number is well over 600. But even that's an undercount. And Aaron, I know that you have submitted over 2000 Freedom of Information Act requests, FOIA requests in pursuit of this information, meaning essentially that this was not common knowledge. Right. It was not something that everyone was aware of. What has been the reaction so far when you have told people that the FBI was surveilling them? it has varied actually some people said wow that's kind of pathetic like the FBI was spying on teenagers others are not surprised because they were around at the time I remember one one comment I saw was somebody's like I knew it when I shared an FBI file because one thing about the FBI file members um school administrators parents and students who are informants I remember one person's like you know I can see school administrators and even students serving as informants, but the parents, wow, that is quite shocking. In fact, most people I interviewed, everybody was shocked that parents were informants. They weren't as surprised as school administrators were. And some were suspicious whether students were informants, but for the longest time, I only had one example. So I thought it was an anomaly. It wasn't until like eight years later that I came across multiple files showing me like, oh, this was actually more widespread than I had assumed. The notion of a parent ratting you out to Herbert Hoover, Right. Or expressing concern to the FBI is really kind of beyond my comprehension. I think if my mother had said to me, I'm calling the FBI on you when I was in high school, I would have said like, ha ha. Yeah. Good luck with that. You know, could you give us a sense of how or why a parent would feel that calling the FBI, writing a letter to the FBI was a remotely reasonable response when a kid started to get activated? Right. Started to to speak out or organize around what was going on in their school or what was going on in their country. Yeah, that's a good question. So nationwide, when high school student activism reaches peak, the large consensus amongst people was that this was a master plan by some outside agitators. Who these outside agitators were? It changed over time. In mid 1960, they were just communists. And by 1968 and early 1970, they were SDS, the Black Panther, or whatever local political group that existed in whatever locale. and parents interestingly they start contacting the fbi as early as 1965 when students are organizing against the vietnam war they're mostly white middle upper middle class parents but it's also important to understand what the fbi symbolized in the 1960s popular culture lionized it going back to 1930s i mean they were you could read about the fbi in comic books and listen to them on radio stations even on television and films and all of them this still exists to the present day i recently watched the wolf on wall street there's a scene that um exemplifies the fbi as being an incorruptible crime fighting organization what is it that you think that we did or do i don't get it well jordan i can't discuss an ongoing investigation no i i get that no i understand and so within that context parents unsurprisingly a minority parents start to contact the FBI they either wrote letters to them sometimes directly to J. Edgar Hoover they made phone calls anytime at night sometime at midnight in fact I recently got an FBI file this is not in a book from Madison Wisconsin and a father he serves as an informant in a very interesting way his boy talks openly about a political group he's involved in in Madison Wisconsin called the high school student for social justice and he listens to him and what the boy doesn't know is that he relays all that information to the fbi and the fbi agrees to only contact the father when he's at work so the son doesn't suspect anything and they all expressed concerns it wasn't that their children they thought were committing like criminal acts they just thought they were all being indoctrinated um or sometimes they thought children that were of their own were being indoctrinated by some quote-unquote sinister force so it's really this This concern, I mean, I know in our contemporary eyes it's seen as obscene. I always do that to your own kid. But for many of the parents, they just thought that every institution had failed to keep their kids safe. And the FBI was their last and best resource. And when you say surveillance, what does that practically mean? Are we talking FBI agents hanging out in some unmarked vehicle outside of the school with binoculars? Like, what does surveillance actually mean when it comes to the FBI and high school kids? No, that's a good question. It's a variety of things. They will, like, you know, cut out newspaper clippings and, like, you know, clip them onto some poster as a paper. Police officers, parents, students, and administrators would confiscate underground newspapers and other published materials and forward them to the FBI, which is why in the book I call the FBI unintentional archivist, because a lot of documents they collect I've never seen anywhere else. One agent in Los Angeles masqueraded himself as a graduate student from UCLA writing a paper about underground newspapers. So he calls a kid who's now a college student, Antioch College, and the kid just tells him everything about the underground newspaper. And he has no idea that the person on the other line is an FBI agent. What is it about the actions of these teenagers that makes adults around them act in this way? yeah it's really just the um the extent of their organizing i mean when i say these independent student groups they weren't just like some of them were groups with like three people but for the most part they were like city-wide or metropolitan-wide groups they would have members from across public and private schools across the city in the surrounding suburbs and they created underground newspapers which were really sophisticated they would have like a photographer uh field correspondents who if there was a high school have an uprising they would actually send their correspondent there and interview students. So, so much like written material, so much sophisticated organizing that it's believed that there is just no way in the world teenagers on their own are doing all of this and somebody has to be pulling the strings. I've seen letters to the editors where they'll say like, this is just way too sophisticated for our kids to write. Yeah. And to your point, right, this is the beginning of high school as the standard for American teenagers. It is a new world when you have this many young people being brought together in the same place, finding their voice through both education and through community. Can you talk a little bit about what these disparate movements actually ended up accomplishing? What came out of this student activism? Yeah, it's short term and long term goals. So short term, a lot of schools would definitely did hire like black teachers and got, you know black and Latino principals And they started teaching black history courses which I think is important And we think about that was that came because of the demands from high school students themselves it wasn just given to them it a combination of very hyper local like for example berkeley high school till this day it still has a black studies department and it was the first one in the nation ready to like sex edge education already stopped kicking girls out of school because they were pregnant which was a widespread practice in the 1960s of course not the father only the the girl who got pregnant. One thing too, the school districts, they passed high school bill of rights bills. So these bill of rights bills kind of really embedded the notion of student rights in the school. So like in power, like school councils gave more freedom to like student press gave students due process, right. So they can actually contest suspensions and expulsions without it being arbitrarily decided. So there's the hyperlocal initiative, but the longstanding one is definitely the notion that students have constitutional rights in schools that has to be respected so long as they don't cause a disruption. It still gets debated and whatnot, but prior to 1969, that was not a notion that most people could comprehend, whether a minor had constitutional rights. We're back. You're listening to Civic I am talking with Aaron Fountain, Jr., historian and author of High School Students Unite Teen Activism, Education Reform and FBI Surveillance in Post-War America. What about high school students today? Do you think that they can have the same impact on their schools and their communities? No, students today still will like, you know, support like labor disputes. I remember thinking Madison, Wisconsin, there was a janitor who was the father of a kid at the school and he lost his job after a dispute with a student protesting and he got his job back. So there are things like that. And students today still protest against book bans or I've seen incidents and then making like freedom schools challenging what's taught in the curriculum. I do think it's important to understand that not all students are on the left or definitely are students on the right. And they are free to believe whatever they want. So any protest I'm talking about, there's always a counter demonstration or a counter measure to whatever students are trying to achieve. Even sometimes students on the right are pretty successful as well in getting their demands. Yeah, I mean, I'm thinking about the fact that even today we are seeing students organized. We are seeing them stage school walkouts in order to protest immigration and customs enforcement. The fear that our peers go through every single day, it has to be vocalized. And what we're doing right now is vocalizing that fear that we've been hearing for months. And I wonder, you know, just thinking about the title of your book, High School Students Unite! exclamation point would you say that you are pro student activism oh yeah i'm pro people um i quote diane nash who made a statement that i wholeheartedly agree that one of the issues with the civil rights movement is that it's often viewed as a dr king movement and not as a people movement and when it's viewed as a people movement people can sit around and ask instead of saying hey can we have another dr king like figure come they can just sit and ask like what can i do so yeah i'm a big proponent student activism with many of the people i talk about in the book it really shaped their careers a lot and went into academia some of them became um journalists interestingly one person started an underground newspaper and became a journalist in the future um you know it became scientists and elected officials and labor organizers and a lot of that activism that they continue into their adulthood even if they don't see that activism is all rooted into their political precociousness as a kid. So, no, and kids are interested in politics and issues that affect their everyday lives, regardless of whether they're on the left or the right. I think, you know, students from both sides should get active. Is there anything else that you want to highlight from your book? Maybe something that you don't get asked to talk about very often? I will say one thing I wish people asked me more about was the fact of how not just national, but international high school student activism was in 1960s and 70s. In this book, I have a list that I worked on for over 10 years, two lists. One includes the name of over 500 independent student organizations and the names of over 1,000 high school underground newspapers. And I did that because when I decided to focus on the San Francisco Bay Area in grad school, I was kind of getting a little annoyed when people say, oh, yeah, of course, or like, oh, yeah, that would never occur where I live, though. So, yeah, when I made the list, it includes the names of groups and papers from all 50 states, including D.C. and Puerto Rico. But I do not have like the international aspect. And I should for listeners to know that high school student activism in this period occurred on all six continents. From the literature, we know that it occurred in Guatemala, Panama, England, France, Italy, Finland, Ethiopia, South Africa, India, Australia, New Zealand, Canada. And also students, to a small extent, actually knew that they were part of an international protest movement fomenting from secondary schools. And there was correspondence between American teenagers and teenagers who lived in England, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. And American and Canadian teenagers actually met one another in person. Okay, so how were these students communicating across borders? What were they saying to each other? Oh, so this is the high school underground press. teenagers in the United States created a national syndicate as a network to connect all the high school underground newspapers. So pretty much a syndicate is a newspaper exchange. So let's say where I live is like the office of whatever group. So I have 20 subscribers from across the nation. They each send me five copies of their papers. I send each copy to every subscriber, maybe keep like, you know, two to myself and send the others to like national publications and they will share articles. And this just accumulated over time to the point that they had about 700 newspapers. And when you go to the archives at Temple University, you see these letters that students are writing to them from across the United States, Canada, England, Australia, New Zealand, Puerto Rico, and asking them, how do I create an underground newspaper? This is what, hey, can you send me papers? Because I want to see what American students are writing about. It's a unique correspondence the guy who donated that collection who i interviewed in the book called it the social media of the age unfortunately some of those records got destroyed he kept 50 of the best he told me but it got destroyed in a flood yeah this happens a lot but the ones that exist it's this uh it's a phenomenal collection just to see what students were um discussing and what issues they had some of them talk about like police and fbi harassment other other papers and others where I talk about like, you know, this is a current lawsuit that we're going for. So it's a fascinating collection that they had over time. But again, it took like five years for them to build that. Well, for those who want to know more about what Aaron learned, You can find High School Students Unite, Teen Activism, Education Reform, and FBI Surveillance in Post-War America, wherever books are sold. And stay tuned for what Aaron is working on right now. It's another book covering teenage action during the Vietnam War, but this time he is going global. Aaron is looking at the roles that Canada, Australia, even New Zealand played, and how high school students from across the world responded to the ways their nations got involved in a war that inspired millions of people to get organized and speak out. This episode was produced by me, Hannah McCarthy. Nick Capodice is my co-host. Rebecca Lavoie is our executive producer. Marina Henke is our producer. Music in this episode comes from Epidemic Sound. If you got something out of this episode, if you learned something, if you're taking what you learned and doing something with it in your world, your community, consider leaving us a review on whatever platform you are listening to this on. Help us get the word out that we are civically here for you. And only you, the public. Because this is, after all, a production of NHPR, New Hampshire Public Radio. Curious about the future of health care? 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