Hour 2: Which Team Will Draft Ty Simpson?

From 30 for 30 podcasts. Brian Pata, senior defensive lineman from Miami, gunned down. The key to this case, it's Brian. An hour before he died, he was on the phone arguing what's about. This might be a hit. You want the truth. They just want a conviction. They're placing the arrest. We had a killer amongst us. Murder at the U. Listen now. What a men's college hoop lineup we got for you tonight. Karen Boozer leads number one-ranked Duke against Notre Dame at 7 Eastern on ESPN. Then on ESPN2, second-ranked Arizona will take on Baylor. And A.J. DeBonza, number 19 BYU, hosts UCF and Provo to cap the night at 11 Eastern. Like everything else, all games also available on the ESPN app. To the NFL. The NFL Combine gets underway later this week, which means NFL draft season is officially here. The festivities begin on Thursday with D-line and linebacker position groups, but as always, the main attraction will be Saturday when the quarterbacks, wide receivers, and running backs all participate. However, projected first overall pick Fernando Mendoza has notably said that he will not be throwing at the combine. The much-anticipated Mel Piper Jr.'s latest mock draft for the 2026 mock draft. He still has Fernando Mendoza going first overall to the Raiders. And the second quarterback he has coming off the board is Alabama quarterback Ty Simpson going to the Steelers. Oh, it is Mel Kuyper Jr. season as Mel Kuyper joins us now. And Mel, let's talk about S.A.'s favorite team. That would be the Steelers. What would Ty Simpson bring to the Steelers? A young quarterback with an awful lot of talent in terms of being, I think, a faster, more athletic Mac Jones. Potentially Mac has 17 starts. Ty has 15, which is a dangerous number, risky number, but he's 23 years of age up until mid-November. He had 22 touchdown passes, only two picks, and then he had the five fumbles lost. Then he lost a little weight. Then he had the, of course, all year. The offensive line didn't get the job done. The running game was nonexistent. Receivers dropping balls, and Ty Simpson struggled some. But then, of course, he had the injury. D'Angelo Pons hit him in the playoff game, cracked rib, fumbled on that play, not available for the senior bowl. So now he's at the combine. We'll see what he can do. I think if he's there at 21 for McCarthy, bring him into the fold, and maybe you have your quarterback moving forward that can lead this team to a lot of victories. I don't think there's a single player. Not concerned at all about him being undersized. Not concerned at all about him being undersized. That was the concern. They claimed that now he's going to be 210, 215 at 6'2". Mack Jones was 6'2 1⁄2", 217 coming out. He's done pretty well. He had a really good rookie year, if you remember. Fell back. Josh McDaniels wasn't there. Now he's in San Francisco doing a great job. Now everybody wants him. He was up in New England. Now you're looking at a guy that I think in Ty Simpson at Pittsburgh, they're not going to be worrying about next year. They can't worry about the 2027 draft because guess what? They want to be picking where they are a little further down. So in order to be getting one of those top guys next year, Arch Manning, Dante Moore, you're going to be picking one, two, or three. So for the Steelers at 21, I know Kenny Pickett everybody's going to bring up. He went around at 20 spot. Didn't work out for Kenny. Ty Simpson, you take another shot at it. You got to do that with quarterbacks. This is a division with Burrow and Lamar, right? We'll see what Shador keeps developing. End of the day, the AFC is loaded with quarterbacks. They got to keep up with their division. And I think Ty Simpson will be a good place to try to maybe catch lightning in a bottle at pick number 21 with a quarterback who can definitely whip the ball to any point on the field. I don't say this with any hyperbole or exactly. I don't think there's a single player who will be at the NFL draft scouting combine. and there's going to be over 300 of them who has more to gain than Ty Simpson. There is a giant hole in that number two quarterback spot. And if you're telling me, Mel, that not one of them is going in the top 20, based on all the drafts we've had in this league's history where the quarterback prospects always surge at the last moment, you're going to get six quarterbacks out of the top 12 two years ago. When we were at this point in the calendar year, no one was saying that. If Ty Simpson goes there on Saturday with the entire league watching, The entire country watching. While Mendoza is on the sidelines in a hoodie saying, I'm good, I'm not competing, and he lights it up, he's not going to be available at 21. The Jets at 16 will be a team that wants to take him or one of these other squads that is so quarterback hungry. I think Malik Willis is the most attractive free agent quarterback. We have a supply and demand problem at quarterback right now. Ty Simpson can go and seize this thing, and on Saturday if he performs well and he shows out, he's not going to be available at 21 okay you make a great point because back in mid-october even in the mid-november when he was at 22 touchdowns only two picks they were talking about him as qb1 maybe with mendoza right there with mendoza at the worst still going in the top five and then all of a sudden he was struggling then it's the emotion of evaluating and looking at players emotionally people are saying oh he's not getting it done he's not a starting quarterback they were watching in real time you know you have prisoners of the moment right saying no what i'm seeing here isn't a starting quarterback in the NFL he's only got 15 starts and he's struggling but you got to factor in all the things he was working through then and had to work through later so for me I'm with you Ty Simpson could guide him at 16 in Mach 1.0 dropped him to 21 some think he'll be there at the Rams pick some think he's a second round guy opinions are all over the place as you know on these quarterbacks and Ty Simpson certainly right now is one of those well well damn it those opinions don't matter to me as much as the great Mel Kuyper Jr okay I'm going with your opinion. So let me ask you this, Mel Kiper. I mean, if in order, I want to know right now your top five quarterbacks in this draft. Well, we know Mendoza's easily one and Ty Simpson's easily two at three. Could be Drew Aller coming off that ankle at Penn State. Carson Beck's in that mix. Cole Payton and North Dakota State's in that mix. Obviously, you got all the other guys. Taylon Green is talented. Taylon Green coming out of Arkansas, formerly of Boise State. Inconsistent accuracy. But he's an LTPer, as Drew Aller is. There's two LTPers right there. They looked the part. But the consistency was lacking. And all those guys. Cade Klubnick from Clemson was considered a first-round pick back in August, and he struggled. So, again, QB3, Stephen A., to answer your question, and Peter knows this, is wide open. You're going to find one of those five, six quarterbacks I mentioned for QB3 may be a decent starting quarterback down the road, and the others will probably just fizzle out. So if you can find that guy and catch lightning in a bottle, you can get a guy on day three. Hey, Garrett Nussmeyer is the other one I left out. Garrett Nussmeyer from LSU was considered mid-first rounder back in August. He's another one. Had a rough 2025 campaign. So all these guys we thought would be really good in August, a lot of them, like I say, fizzled out this season. Okay, so one thing we know for sure, you've mocked and it seems like everyone has, Fernando Mendoza going number one overall to the Raiders. Our own quarterback, Dan Arlowski, did tweet this yesterday. He said, quote, studying the first five games of Mendoza's tape, it is not what I expected so far. Do you think Mendoza is maybe overhyped as that number one overall pick as a quarterback prospect? I don't know. I don't think overhyped. I think that people are still talking about other players as the best guys on the board, not Fernando Mendoza. I go back to Peyton Manning. I brought that up last year. Everybody said if his name was Peyton Jones, it'd be a third-round pick, and that was fact. That was real time. Everybody does revisionist history later on. But I think when you look at where we are at Fernando Mendoza, I comp him to Matt Ryan and to Peyton Manning. So those are the two. Leighton plays. He's tremendous. He's a guy who studies the game like Peyton. He's passionate about it, cracking the code. He can do enough with his legs as he's shown. He's tough as nails. I understand he doesn't have a howitzer for an arm. He's not going to run a 4-5, 5-40. I get all that. But what else? Would you need to be a successful quarterback, a great quarterback in this league? He has. So for me, Raider Nation, be happy. You earned that number one pick, and the year you got the number one pick, you got a quarterback of this capability coming out. Keep in mind, when Peyton came out, he had to look like Ryan Lee better because of the traits over Peyton Manning, who had wobbly balls. His pro day was one of the worst pro days ever for a quarterback. Yet here we are as one of the greatest of all time, Peyton Manning. So yeah, there we go. If that's a comp and Matt Ryan's a comp, and keep in mind, remember when Miami and Bill Parcells passed on Matt Ryan, Jake Long and then Chad Henning? So Matt Ryan wasn't this locked up franchise quarterback either in a lot of people's minds. Go ahead, Peter. I got one more question, but go ahead, Peter. I was going to just say this, you know, Orlovsky can look at the tape and a lot of people are going to look at the tape and you're going to dissect his game. That's what we do in the draft. And we dissect these guys inside and out. in the biggest of moments, nobody in recent college football history, going back to maybe Joe Burrow, has been more clutch, has had more on his shoulders, and has lifted his teammates more than this Fernando Mendoza. And if you're looking at the Raiders, you are at ground zero. You are at square one. Who else would you want to build your franchise around than a guy who took a program, and Shea knows this all too well, from 105 years of being an also-ran to being the best program in the United States. I would also say this. Ask the eight other Indiana Hoosiers who will be at the Combine this week what they think of Fernando Mendoza. So I don't know what Dan was implying, that he wasn't impressed with the film or that he was impressed with the film. Whatever it is, he's not going to be the only one who's going to watch the film and say, eh, Mendoza's not for me. He doesn't have the natural traits and all that stuff. Garbage. Give me the winner and give me the guy who lifts everyone around him. I will say this real quick before I'll come to Mel on this. Pete, I get where you're coming from, but I don't want to hear that. Only from this standpoint. Those eight other players that's going to be at the combine, it ain't like they're going to say he ain't good. I mean, come on now. If your quarterback wasn't good, would you tell us? No, they ain't going to tell us. Let's just stop that. Let's not do that. But I will ask this because I believe in Mondelez every bit as much as you do, Peter and Mel, but I would ask you this. is the discrepancy between him and everybody else in the draft a product of his greatness or is it an indictment against the others? Good question. Well, I'll tell you what. If Arch Manning was in this draft, let's go right to Arch. Arch had inconsistency with nerves of accuracy. You're drafting Arch on the potential of what he can be. Keep in mind, we would have had 15 starts coming into this draft as well. So everybody's saying it would have been a lock thing. Again, you get into Arch Manning, super talented. Next year, he may be the lock number one quarterback, slightly ahead of Dante Moore, and be the guy we're talking about like we did with Trevor Lawrence and I did with John Elway back in 1989. We may be doing that with Arch. Right now, though, we're not doing it. He needs to improve. Just like Fernando Mendoza went from 41 sacks at Cal in 2024, dropped that number down dramatically. Regular season was like 17 18 Would he need to improve on He did And what Peter said is important Late in a play when that play is late you got to do the fourth fifth option Do you throw it away What do you do Do you throw it away? Do you run? Do you find that guy? And he found that guy. He made the right decision late in plays time and time again. So for me, he was going to go to Yale. I mean, in his legs, he showed that. Like I said, I understand he doesn't have elite traits, and I hate that term. He doesn't. And they say about Ty Simpson. He said about Peyton, right? Said about Shador. They said about doesn't have elite trades. They were knocking Jackson Dart last year. Tyler Shuck. They knock them all. If you say you hate a quarterback, nine times out of ten, you can always say you're right. The haters of Josh Allen are still saying they're right, right? So if you hate everybody, eight, nine times out of ten, you're going to be right because you're never going to give it up until the guy wins a couple Super Bowls, right? So, you know, I get to hate on quarterbacks, but realistically in this draft, Fernando Mendoz I think is the best player in this draft, And certainly he's distanced himself from every other quarterback, including Ty Simpson. Stephen A., I look at it. I was going to say. I'm sorry. Go ahead. I got a question about Dante Moore, but go ahead. How many single people do we have in our lives who are just waiting for Mr. Wright or Mrs. Wright to walk in and you say no to so many others because you're waiting and you're waiting and you're waiting. If you're the Raiders, you can't wait for 2027. You can't wait for 2028. This is the draft. You have the number one pick. And to me, don't overthink this. Take Mendoza. Build the franchise. Well, everybody knows they're going to take Mendoza. We all know that. But let me get to Dante Moore for a quick second because the last time we saw him, it was not a good experience at all. Going up against Indiana, they got walloped. They lost 56-22. It was an awful performance on his part. We were talking about them 1-2 originally. Then obviously that's not going to be the case because he's going to go back to school. My question to you, Mel, was this. from a talent perspective, one game, is it fair for it to have that kind of catastrophic impact on how he's looked upon based on how he looked against Indiana? That's the way we operate with quarterbacks. It is important to have that finish it out strong and go back to games head to head. And I always say, if you do that, is that the right way to go? Everybody was talking about Ben Roethlisberger when he was at Miami, Ohio, when he went to Iowa, That was the game. When Josh Allen was at Wyoming and went to Iowa, that was the game. Peyton Manning lost to Florida three straight years. Troy Aikman never beat Rodney Peet. We can go back and pick out different spots and say, well, if you looked at that, you'd have been pretty wrong, right? If you'd have engaged everything or evaluated a quarterback based on that game, when it was a big evaluation game for this quarterback, it's going to be that game, and he struggled, so I can't like him. Well, you'd have been wrong. So at the end of the day, fortunately for Dante, I screamed about this all year, go back, go back, go back. And he is going back to Oregon. And next year you will see Dante Moore, who had to battle through an offensive line, had injuries, running, but the receivers were banged up. There was the pieces around him. Sadiq wasn't healthy the whole year. All those things will be next year. He'll be right there with Arch Manning as one of the top quarterbacks in the country, certainly one of the top quarterbacks in the draft. I want to applaud him, not just for listening to Mel Kiper Jr., but overall going back to school, because obviously there was questions about his skill set needing to improve. And this is a guy that was projected to be a top two pick in the draft. So for him to be willing to go back to school and recognize the fact that he has some things that he's willing to work on, I think that speaks immensely for his character. And I think that that's something that NFL teams should take into consideration looking at him next year. Willing to go back, willing to improve upon himself. I mean, it's one of those situations where you're an NFL team. You're like, hey, okay, from a character perspective, this is the kind of guy we want. I do feel that way. Well, one thing we know for sure, we know Fernando Mendoza will likely be the number one overall pick this year. And, Dan, did he forget he didn't even play for the Indiana last year? He was on Cal. Like, my goodness, give him five games and get acclimated. Mel Kuyper Jr. will be talking to you a lot, I am sure, over the next month or so. Thank you so much for the time. Yes, we will. I'll be watching Mel. I will be watching Mel. See you later, Mel. Does Cade Cunningham own the Knicks? We got a take that you need to hear, and Essay might want to plug his ears for it. Plus, has international basketball cut up to the United States? Well, if you ask Kevin Durant, the answer is no. But is he right? Must see TV on the way. The NBA is in the era of the international superstar. International players currently lead the NBA in points, rebounds, assists, and blocks. And the last seven MVPs all have gone to non-American-born players. The All-Star format was even changed this year to World vs. USA teams instead of the traditional East vs. West. But not everyone is loving the comparisons between international players and Americans. Kevin Durant shared his thoughts with R. Vincent Goodwill on other countries catching up to Team USA, saying, I just don't like the talk around USA vs. European style of how you approach the game. All I hear is AAU is destroying the game. The Euros do it right while the Americans do it wrong. It's a lot of bull with that. I can read between the lines on that. It's a shot at black Americans. We're controlling the sport. They're tired of us controlling the sport. France is coming for you? Really? We smack them boys. End quote. Okay, Vince, you did this interview. Is Kevin Durant right? I think when you're in Kevin Durant's shoes and his perspective as being a product of the AAU culture, at a time when AAU culture was different than what it is now, right, in the world of NIL and everything else. I consider things from his perspective, from the perspective of players that I've seen, that I've covered on an everyday basis, what they've said about the criticisms and critiques that have come to AAU culture, to their culture, from people on the outside, and you have to take it as legitimate. It may not be true. it may not be racism per se in the way that we think of it, but they do take it personally as a shot and they do look at the way that the international influx has happened since the Dream Team. That happened in 1992. All of the international superstars, by and large, post Arvita Sabonis, post Drazen Petrovic, have come into the league since 1992, since 1996, and the NBA has welcomed that. Some black players feel like it is a shot. Some black players feel like there's people who want to see the world catch up to the U.S. and surpass the U.S. in the Olympic Games, in the World Cup. That's where they come from. That's their experience. That's what they say. I can't say that I experience it the same way. I see the language. I do see and understand that it's coded. So for Kevin Durant, who's been in the league for 17 or 18 years, who grew up in the AAU culture, that comes from a very genuine and real place. Monica? So this feels like a conversation that has been gurgling, if you will, for a while now. And I think for me, when I look at it, the NBA and Team USA is still dominant. We are in a sport which values and appreciates competition. I can appreciate this lens that KD sees it from. But the reality is, is we still got international superstars coming to play in the NBA. And so if the NBA and American basketball didn't still represent the pinnacle, those seven MVPs or whatever the number is, wouldn't even be there. Now, there's another piece for me that kind of stood out to this because I don't know. I don't know where we're falling country of origin versus ethnicity because Victor Wimbyama looks like a black athlete to me. And so that's another piece of the conversation. But I understand, like, growing up in D.C., like, in the AAU gyms the same time that KD was, that is something that is truly near and dear to a lot of athletes' hearts. And, in fact, if AAU was so horrible, would it not have found a way to be diminished? That is certainly not the case. And so, I think, as a competitor, when you hear, oh, y'all are doing it wrong, your competition is coming, of course you take that personal. That is what has allowed KD to be who he is in this league, seeing it through the lens of an ultra competitor. So I get it, but I would not say that America's got it wrong based on what we've been able to accomplish and the NBA still representing the gold standard. I love y'all, you know, because y'all are so eloquent and, you know, articulate and all of that stuff. And I got it. This is where Stephen A. Smith comes in. and I'll say it for you because I know how y'all feel. I'm going to say it. KD is a thousand percent right. One thousand percent. We ain't going to sugarcoat it. It ain't for y'all to do. I understand. You know, you sit in this seat. You got to take some heat. White America, throw the heat in my direction. Leave Vinny and Eminem alone. KD is right. One thousand percent. Okay. Now, before you want to sit up there and throw shade at Kevin Durant, Let me remind America of who he is. He is a two-time NBA champion. He is a two-time NBA finals MVP. He is a former league MVP. He is a four-time scoring champion. And oh, by the way, he has four Olympic gold medals. Four. Okay, 2012, 2016, 2020, and just 2024. By the way, in those four Olympics, Kevin Durant has scored 518 points. No one else has scored over 400. No one. That's KD, one of the most decorated basketball players in history. In history. who, by the way, burner account or not, when he speaks, he is genuine. He is authentic. He is honest. He's a good dude. And I'm somebody he's taking shots at. And I'm telling you, it has never fazed me because I know he's a good brother. He's a good man. OK. And he just might be in his emotions from time to time. But he's a good brother. And there's no question in him when he says this. understand why he says this it originates for why we wanted to globalize the brand to begin with no doubt you the nba who has obviously supported these players and always has from commissioner david stern to russ granick the former deputy commissioner to adam silver to mark tatum these brothers and these men have supported these brothers but america hasn't always done so America when you talk about globalizing the sport certainly money has everything to do with it okay well a lot to do with it But the other part in globalizing your brand is whitening the sport too Because when you've got the Luka Doncic of the world, the Dirk Nowitzki's before him, the Manu Ginobili's and others, because you didn't have enough white American players to excel on a level that could make the sport more profitable and what have you. And you had to rely on the brothers. It's why Magic Johnson was so important because of that magnetic smile that invited you into the living room. But even still, you still paired him with Larry Bird to promote the sport. Michael Jordan came along and took it to another level. Kobe and his undeniable brilliance and speaking four languages fluently and working on a fifth at the time of his passing Mandarin. I mean, but it's a rarity. And so to globalize the sport, to have guys who were white European superstars is something that the NBA itself might have capitalized off of. lovingly so because of profitability issues but america and the world as a whole ingratiated itself with the american product with the nba product because you saw folks who were white even though they weren't from america if there were a bunch of cooper flags running around we wouldn't be having this conversation but they're rare they're rarities cooper flag may be the best white dude since Larry Bird. I think he is. The brother's spectacular, okay? Dirk Nowitzki's from Germany, okay? I'm talking about white American born. That's a rarity in terms of superstar status in the United States of America when it comes to the sport of basketball. KD and everybody knows it, and that's why they said what he said, what he said, but most people wouldn't say it. KD should be applauded for his bravery and his honesty with this particular subject and letting you know he ain't playing that not to mention the fact reminding you that he along with others bust Europe's ass whenever you put them up against them because they're letting you know yo this is who we are now understand what that means that's what makes the all-star game the USA versus the world that much more appealing because you know that brothers are going to step on the court with that attitude and they're going to show effort during that level of competition because they ain't giving it to Europe no matter how bad Europe wants it okay but when Binyama and others even though obviously he's not white the point is they're letting you know Europe is coming and they're willing to embarrass America if America doesn't step up but KD and pointing this stuff out and pointing around the verbiage and highlighting how people gravitate to that he's absolutely 1,000% right because if America has its druthers, it would rather not rely on the brothers. We see it with the marketing of the NFL. Who gets marketed? We see it with the market in the Major League Baseball. Even though you do it with NBA players who are brothers, it's because you have no choice because they are clear-cut the greatest on the planet and there is no wiggling around them. But KD was right. He's calling it out. And I stand 10 toes, 10 toes down, 1000 percent with him and what he said, because he's telling the truth. OK, and it's our job to embrace it, especially me more so than y'all, because I know this chair that I'm sitting in, you know, I'm saying a hot seat that I'm going to take. I don't give a damn. The man is right. And it's my job to say so. And that's what I'm saying. A thousand percent he is correct. I think there are criticisms that you can make about the grassroots culture in AAU basketball, how maybe the players today aren't being taught. Maybe they're being coached and pushed through. But I think what the root of Kevin Durant's point is, is that that system has opened the doors for a lot of kids to get through and get to places that they would not have gotten to otherwise. And then when they hear the NBA is too black, when they hear the NBA is too cultured, when they hear criticism, and even if it comes from a few bad actors, even if it comes from the Twitters of the world, the Instagrams of the world, the people who should not have a place in the conversation, those ears, those eyes, they absorb that. And you got to see a little bit of it at All-Star for a second, Stephen A. LeBron and KD, they were saying stuff super coded about, I'm going to keep my opinion to myself on this. They were saying that in relation to the format. And Katie and Stephen, maybe it was me. Maybe I just knew what they meant and they just weren't going to say it. Damn it, we all know what they meant. All of us. We know it. If you black, you know what the hell they were saying. All right? Damn it, if you white, you know what they were alluding to. We ain't apologizing for it. Listen, it's not their job to bring that kind of heat. You have to bring it up and to point it out fine. Everybody doesn't have to be as candid as Kevin Durant was as a basketball player. That's why I applaud him for doing so. But the rest is up to people like us, mainly me. I'm backing them 100%. And let me say this. Stop the presses. Don't faint. Let's take a moment to pay homage to LeBron James because here's the reality. This man has been under a microscope since he entered the National Basketball Association. That's a fact. And it is undeniable that there were an abundance of people, if not rooting for his failure, certainly not rooting for him to be the iconic global basketball figure that he is. He knew it. He knew about Magic. He knew about Jordan. He knew about Kobe, to a lesser degree about Shaq, who's the gentle giant and big Aristotle and, you know, Santa Claus and all of this other stuff. He knew about that and embraced the responsibility and has conducted himself pristinely in terms of his off the court behavior and his on court performance spanning decades. He carried that mantle the way it's supposed to be carried. But what America did was say, we want you to be like him. And what Kevin Durant is saying is we ain't all we don't all have to be LeBron to be as great. We don't all have to be Steph Curry to be as great. We are a mosaic as a people. We come in various shapes and sizes and even color. The bottom line is we are who the hell we are. It ain't Europe. It's us. Stop that nonsense. And I applaud him for bringing that up. Now, it's our job to back him up a thousand percent and to show us that we support that brother telling the truth. This is one of the most decorated basketball players in history, globally. Kevin Durant, it's our job to back him up on this one. And he has my unwavering support on this. Ten toes down. The brother was telling the truth. Period. Period. All right. Thanks, Stephen A. Coming up here on First Take, Jalen Brown has had an MVP caliber season so far. If he happens to win the trophy, would we look at his career? Better than that of his teammate Jason Tatum, maybe? This is about to get good. You know that. Plus, the Knicks have had a solid season so far, but the Pistons seem to be a notch better. Is that due to Kate Cunningham owning New York? Take you don't want to miss coming up. In the wake of the murder of George Floyd in May 2020, WNBA and NBA players were some of the loudest voices in the movement for justice. The WNBA dedicated its 2020 season to Breonna Taylor, who was killed by Louisville police in March of that year, and promised to say her name every chance they got. That summer, the Milwaukee Bucks refused to take the court in the NBA bubble after a Kenosha, Wisconsin police officer shot Jacob Blake several times. Through their protests, WNBA and NBA players continue the legacies left by greats like Bill Russell and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, who helped define athlete activism during the civil rights movement. I just think Cade is incredible. I think Cade is ready to take them next steps, man. He got his team number one in the East. Came out the all-star break 42-9 at the Garden. Owning the New York Knicks. Cade Cunningham owns the New York Knicks. Cade Cunningham has been playing his best basketball. That is true when facing the Knicks. Averaging over 27 points per game, 11 assists per game. He has led the Pistons to a 3-0 record against New York this season. That's right, Draymond Green, you heard him say it. He said he's owned the Knicks, Cade Cunningham. Do you agree with him, Monica? Has he owned the Knicks, Cade Cunningham? I do not. Oh, sorry, Shay. Go on, girl. Listen, let me explain something. Y'all, coming into the other night, literally, Cade, in his 11 games versus the Knicks, he was averaging like 24 and 8 assists, I believe. And so, yes. And literally, I heard this sound and I was like, that's true. except there's this little playoff series where it didn't unfold that way. So to me, in order to equivocally put a period on that stance, he would have had to send the Knicks home, and he didn't. But has Cage seemingly had an excellent performance versus the Knicks over the course of his career? Yeah, in a regular season. So that's why I got to stop on this one. Eminem, Benny, hold on for a second. Let me chime in here with Eminem. Go ahead, tell me. Now tell me postseason don't matter. Go ahead. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. I mean, I don't want to be inappropriate or nothing like that. But between the hat, the hairdo, the glasses now that you are. I got to admit, you've been on your swag over the last few weeks. I've been very, very impressed. I have to say this. I just have to say this, Eminem. I mean, I got to give it up to you. I just do. I just do. I mean, marriage has done. Marriage has done. I mean, she always was great. But marriage is. I mean, she's just glowing and just happy. And she just wears. I mean, it's very few people that wear their glow. You know what I'm saying? Remember the aura with Rick James, Dave Chappelle, Imitating Rick? The aura I see, it was orange. I see, you know what I'm saying? It's one of those things. That's why she's rocking it. I got it for you, swear. I got it for you, Eminem. But here's my issue with you. Okay. Tell me. Why are you not paying enough attention to the fact that the Knicks look different than they did a year ago See if you just looking at Cade I got it And I know the playoffs aren here yet compared to last season but the Knicks look different And dare I say they look softer I don't, I'm not seeing the same level of grit that I saw. With Tom Thibodeau, they could be down 20. I knew they were coming back. I knew they were coming back. I didn't, they might come back and lose but I knew they were coming back there was a fight that's why I was so happy when I saw them against Houston the other night in the fourth quarter when they came back from an 18 point deficit my point is you're looking for that grit that grind that those cardiac kids that everything about them looks like overachievers and they won't stop they like the little engine that could they won't stop that's what you're looking to see from them and it's like the the the the weight of expectations have dimmed their shine a little bit not a lot because there's still 15 16 games above 500 but a little bit how come you don't bring that up so i say on friday when we did have to react in my defense yes i did acknowledge that and i said remember i said this to you i said it's not a talent gap right now it is a mentality gap which to me the mentality is speaking to what you're talking about right so here's what here's what i will say because you're right this team has shifted a little bit from who they were a couple of seasons ago in particular when around the league the comment might have been they're not gonna score a whole lot of point but they're gonna play hard it has certainly shifted from that here's what i'm looking at as we move forward because if you ask me do they have a pistons problem the answer is absolutely yes do if you ask me do they struggle to defend k cunningham the answer is absolutely yes i can't give you own because the Knicks did send the Pistons homes last year in the postseason, which quite frankly may have awoken a beast. As I'm looking ahead to this season, I am with you 100%. They got this next month and two weeks in April or so to toughen up if they are going a collision course to run into the Detroit Pistons. They will have to shoot the basketball better. They will have to find some of that deep grit that has allowed this team to get to this point as we're talking about them as a contender for sure. And they are definitely going to have to find a more consistent way to make sure that the one-two punch of Brunson and Towns is effective. So I will give you that. I do not disagree that things have changed. I just think that they'll have a little bit of time to figure it out, and that I'm hoping that their experience will shine forth. Stephen A., do you think Cade Cunningham owns the Knicks? I think he's owned them this season. I think he's owned them this season. That's fair. I'll give you that. I think he has abused them. They haven't beaten the Knicks. They've owned them. They've embarrassed them. I mean, they ran them out of the state of Michigan. I mean, it's gotten to the point where, you know what? I mean, the New York Knicks got their own immigration problems because they might not allow them back in the state of Michigan. What the hell's going on with the way they're getting their ass kicked, OK? And then you show up at the Garden. You go show up at the Garden. And then without Isaiah Stewart, without Jalen Duran, without their front line, This brother goes out and drops 42 and 13 and busts their living. You know what? You're damn right he's been owning them this season. They got to do something about that. What do you think, Vinny? Own? You think Cade Cunningham owns the Knicks? Squatting. How about that? Because technically who owns New York Knicks? I said squatting. Squatting. Squatting. Because the owner of the New York Knicks is technically out with an Achilles injury, and that's Tyrese Halliburton. He's put them out the last two years. Now, Cade Cunningham is in their heads. When I think of players who have owned the New York Knicks, I think of two names. Michael Jordan. Yes. Reggie Miller. Yes. Put you out in May, stopped you from getting to June. This season could be the year where Kay Cunningham says, you know what? I got ownership of the New York Knicks. Yeah. Because they got a problem with that young man, Stephen A. Y'all got problems. That's a problem, for sure. But the Knicks got Reggie Miller. They never got Michael Jordan. There's a difference. That's what I was saying. Well, we'll see what happens in the postseason with Cade Cunningham. Something tells me this postseason might be a little different than last. Jalen Brown's season could culminate in winning an MVP trophy. If he does, would his career be looked at as better than his teammate Jason Tatum? That's next after the break. The TGL is back today with two more matches on ESPN. New York is featured in both. They'll square off against the Bay at 5 Eastern, 2 Pacific, then take on Boston Common at 9. Like everything else, both available on the ESPN app. It has been a monster season for Jalen Brown, the former NBA Finals MVP, is currently averaging career highs in points, boards, and dimes, helping the Celtics to second place in the East while still missing Jason Tatum to injury. Here's our own Chris Canty on Unsportsmanlike on Brown. If he wins the MVP, is his career better than Jason Tatum's? Tatum is your first team all-NBAs. If you're an MVP and a finals MVP, you got to ring yes. Yes. Vince, do you agree? I love Chris Canty. But no. I love him too. Look, and I hate putting these two guys against each other because that's what they feel like has been happening their entire careers. But when you look at Jason Tatum's career, he's had five All-NBA seasons. He's got an Eastern Conference Finals MVP. Jalen Brown does have the Finals MVP. He's made All-NBA team one time. When I think of historical players, James Harden has an MVP. Dwyane Wade does not. There's no way I'm taking James Harden over Dwyane Wade historically. Isaiah Thomas does not have an MVP. Allen Iverson does. I'm not taking Allen Iverson over Isaiah Thomas. even if it's the equalizer, like player against player, the MVP doesn't make you better historically than another guy, let alone in a unique situation like this. And I'm not taking anything away from Jalen Brown because he's having a fantastic season and would be a deserving MVP as he's already been in all these other phases of his NBA career. Vinny, I would tell you that I get where you're coming from because Jason Tatum has been underappreciated for years. He's a four-time all-NBA first-team player. He's an NBA champion, been to two NBA finals, been to five conference finals appearances, et cetera, et cetera. But we can't dismiss this question as if there's no way that you can look at Brown if he wins an MVP, and here's why. Because he's been underserved throughout the years. Think about it. He's been to six conference finals. Jason Tatum didn't go to no conference finals without him. He's been there every single time. He was there as the number two option. He was there as a reliable dude. And then on top of it all, he wins a conference finals MVP. He wins an NBA finals MVP. He wins a championship. Tatum is right there. And so you have to look at it from that standpoint to then step up. Remember, he got his $300 million contract before Tatum got it. Okay? And what does he do? Tatum goes down, and all the pressure is on him. He doesn't have the assets that he used to have. He simply goes out there and averages nearly 30. And as a top two candidate for league MVP honors, I'm not saying it's a definitive yes. And it's not one against the other because obviously they work considerably well together and they deserve the acclaim that they get. But we can't summarily dismiss the possibility that some people will look at Jalen Brown and presumed that he will have had a better career when so much is measured by your postseason success. And in the postseason, he stepped up and didn't remember. We look at these numbers. There are certain things you can't look at numbers about. His defensive prowess. You understand? When you talk about what he did and, you know, how he exposed Luka and all of this other stuff in the finals, Jalen Brown is arguably the best two-way player in basketball. We can't ignore that. So I'm just saying it's a worthy discussion. Nothing definitive about it, but it's a worthy discussion. I'm going to add this to Jalen Brown's three triple-doubles this season, most by a Celtics player in over a decade. He's doing a lot right now for the Cs. That's for certain. Coming up on First Take, Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Manny Pacquiao will meet again in a rematch. What do we think about this upcoming bout? Last Takes on the way next. The ESPN app is your home for WWE premium live events. To watch, sign up for the ESPN Unlimited plan. If you have one of these paid TV providers, ESPN Unlimited is included at no additional cost. Just head to activate.espn.com. Follow the step to get set up and you are good to go. Then sign into the ESPN app and boom! The biggest WWE premium live events all in one place, anytime, anywhere. Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Manny Pacquiao will meet again in a rematch September 19th at the Sphere in Las Vegas. The news comes just days after Mayweather announced his intentions to come out of retirement after his April exhibition fight against Mike Tyson. Pacquiao came out of retirement last July. As I say, this isn't until September, but what are your expectations for the rematch? Not much. I just think that Mayweather, first of all, props to Mayweather and Pacquiao because they're both in shape. Nobody's going to come in there fat and out of shape. Mayweather stays in shape. He's the greatest defensive fighter arguably we've ever seen and clearly one of the greatest ever. But their fight in 2015, hyped as the fight of the century, I was so hyped to see it, was underwhelming in the end because it wasn't nearly as much action as we expected because of Mayweather's defensive brilliance and the fact that Pacquiao couldn't catch him, not to mention Pacquiao mentioned it after the fight, that he had a shoulder injury and all of this other stuff. I mean, it may well have been retired for nine years. I'm underwhelmed, but I don't blame them because a lot of people would still want to see this, but I'm not expecting much. I want my Hagler Hearns. I want my Hagler Leonard. But that's not this, and it wasn't that in 2015. So the question I ask is, Manny, are you okay? Manny, are you okay? That's all. They're going to get paid, though. They're going to get paid. Absolutely. They're going to make some money now. That's right. They're going to get paid. That's the whole thing of this. Again, we've got to wait until September until this happens. But nonetheless, we can sit around and talk about it for the next. I don't know how. I love both of them, so I'll be there. I got love for both of them, so I'll be there. Eve don't need an excuse to get on the jet and go to Vegas. That's right. He do that on a weekend. That's right. A weekend. A weekend. And hop on over one night. I'm going to get on Delta. I'm going to get on Delta. We'll see you all tomorrow. If you want to go. Same time, same place. Goodbye.