Jorge Rosado: Merauder, Making Master Killer, Remembering "Sob" & The Sepultura Audition

How does it occur that you joined Marauder? I ran into Saab and I hadn't seen him in a while. He came out to the train station and I'm walking down to St. Mark's, you know. And he goes, you want to try from Marauder? I'm like, yeah, fuck you. He goes, I'll get you to demo. So like three days later, I went and sang the set. We took it from there from there. And three months later, we get to deal with Century Media, you know, and it was history. I never in my life set out to do any of this. And it's all falling into my hands. Like I never set out to be in a band. I fucked around music and stuff, like all this shit just fell into my hands. Like it was like it was destined to be that. Yeah. Hello, welcome. It's hard work time. How you doing, Bo? I'm doing very well, Colin. Who do we have today? It's a very special day. This is, this could not be more years in the making, some would say. We have the vocalist of a band we talk about every week here. A band we love so much. A band whose first album we love so much, we turned it into an adjective, if you can believe it. This is the master killer of podcast episodes. Here to celebrate 30 years of probably our favorite record ever, Marauder vocalist, Jorge Rosado. How are you, sir? Pleasure, brother, pleasure. What a day. Yeah, we're so excited. Like he said, we've been talking about your band, multiple records for years now. How was FYA pretty yesterday? How'd that feel? It was great, man. I mean, other than the food being a little expensive and shit, I spent a lot of fucking money yesterday, man. Sure. Other than that, I mean, everything's great, man. Set the good. The lineup was amazing. Insane. The energy of the crowd was insane. I always worry about my own set with the age and everybody and we having new guys in the band. We haven't even really rehearsed with them yet. We have Mark Rizzo and Eli from Bitter End and Hard Side. And so, you know, I mean, and he's nervous as fuck. Was Mark stage right, Kacharpa? Because he's a big Marauder. He got a license, paying tattoo. And he's like, oh my God, I'm playing in the band. That he's also a person that they modeled their whole thing around the band, which is I'm grateful for. I never knew as, as, you know, as a frontman, you know, I, you know, I have bands that I'm influenced by, but I never thought I would be on that side of the fence, you know, having kids. Yeah, bro, it's like even young kids. Yeah. We're telling them we're out here every week. Every week. I'm like, yeah. But it's because of the work, the work, the work is all you needed. The longevity and stuff. I mean, we didn't really put out as much that we wanted to. But I mean, shit happens, but we're still here. Yeah, we still have opportunities. Do you remember when we met? We're here. The ruckus when you was with ruckus, right? That was on that tour. Yeah. You remember what you used to call me? You had a nickname for me. Fuck. Think about it. It was good. It was good. It stuck with me for a little bit, but not beyond you. Think about it. Think about little me behind that drum kit. Think about you asking me to play drums at this is hardcore this one year, but I couldn't afford my plane ticket. Who did you ask? You didn't ask Colin. You asked. Hmm. Mick Levin. Oh, I see it. Yeah. From the valley to close. Wow. So thanks for that. Do you remember on that tour what you told me your favorite movie of all time was? What? The Warriors? No. Tropic Thunder. Oh, well, after I saw Tropic Thunder, it was a battle between the Warriors and the Warriors. Well, when it comes to the violence and stuff like that type of thing, I go with, you know, the Warriors. When it comes to like comedy, she liked that Tropic Thunder, man. She was fucking hilarious. Who's the coolest gang? Who's your favorite gang in the Warriors besides the Warriors? I like the Fordham Baldies, man. Yeah. The shit, man. And the Lizzie's were the Lizzie's were cool. I would have gone in that room. I wouldn't have ran out. I was just I was stood there like, hell, yeah. What you want to do? For the Baldies, the the guys in the bus. Yeah. Yeah. That scene was great. Yeah. And they just fucking he went when he gave him the finger and he tried to hit him with the two biffle and just fucking great. This is exactly how he described Tropic Thunder to me. So I'm glad you're as passionate about the Warriors. Let's go back in time here. Okay. Tell me about Jorge, the young lad before music from from Brooklyn originally. Born and raised in Brooklyn. There was periods where I was fluctuating back and forth. There was a time in 80s. This is why I really this is how I got into it. Metal and rock and anything like that. Because I went to Puerto Rico to breakdancing, you know, breakdancing, popping, doing all this shit. You know, I went there, I think in 80 81 came back like 83. And that's where I got into metal. First record, some kid gave me, you know, I think we traded something. And it was Alice Cooper schools out. Yeah. So they were looking like the monsters. Yeah. So heavy metal was first. Yeah. So heavy metal was first and then I got into the Iron Maiden and Sabbath. And so that was, you know, I was doing that for a while, you know, and so when I came back to New York, like in 83, I had a neighbor that lived next door. Well, all the brothers were on the gang. They were Hellburners. They were like in this street gang. Saw like a street gang and MC afterwards. But, you know, they've been through a lot of shit. And he was the only dude I knew that listened to any metal. But he was listening to like, uh, merciful faith, blood, feast, and, you know, a lot of made into, you know, but he had more underground stuff in his repertoire than than the kids of Puerto Rico. More like the mainstream metal bands. But then that's when I started getting to like blood, feast and bands like that. And even band, I've been called Hellstar from back in the days. Run with the pack, you know, that song. Yeah, yeah. Uh, actually, I don't even know they were from here. They might have been from Colombians or something like that. And heavy, heavy, aggressive underground music. We connected with you very early in life. Oh, yeah. When, and then not until I met some skinheads on the train. Well, we were going to, we almost got into an altercation on the train. You know, me and my boy, long hair, we were kind of doing like the biker thing. Uh huh. Yeah, you know, trying to, but we like metal, you know, and, um, we went to go see some girls, we went on a train, we seen the pack of skinheads that were looking at us, giving us dirty looks. And we're like, you know, we're two Puerto Ricans from the hood. We're like, fuck these motherfuckers, you know, if they want to come, then come. You know, so we ended up getting off the train. They understand we're hanging on this house and this one girl's like, yeah, I'm waiting for my boyfriend to come. Oh. So later on he comes. No. And he's one of the skinhead dudes on the train. So when he walks in, he looks right at me and I look right at him. I go, and we just start fucking laughing. His name is Richie, big Richie, Puerto Rican Italian kids. He was a crazy motherfucker, man. And, um, and I still love him to this day, man, because he's, to me, like, introduced me to a whole new world, you know, he showed you a little ton of the local and the whole sunset skinhead crew, you know, and, um, I was hanging out with them for a while, but I never wanted to cut my head. I didn't want to be a skinhead and doing all that. I was just, you know, they liked me because I braved a lot and I danced hard and I had long hair and I was a body bomb, but that was like the only long hair they liked, you know, you know, I mean, not really, but, you know, if you was in a band, I got, you know, the regular hardcore dudes that long had that we fucked with, but there was always a confrontation with metal heads and stuff, you know, and, um, but we got along great. And, uh, we started hanging out and they were always threatening to cut my hair. Oh, you're gonna fall asleep. You're gonna shave your head and never happened. And then one day I just show up to see me and they're looking down the block. And I was like, what the fuck is the skinhead motherfucker coming? I'm like, did it myself. Wow. You gotta see their face. It's like, you know, one of the Super Bowls, I'm sure, you know, and the only motherfucker that was mad was Minus. Oh. He was like, you cut all that beautiful hair. What the fuck are you doing? Cause he never cut it, right? No, he had a shave head back then, you know, but he thought the hair was cool. He was trying to grow his hair back. You know, he was like, you cut your head. And he was like, no, you stupid asshole. And they're like, you're not going to get no pussy no more. Which. Yeah. They get helped. Sure. Sure. So around that time, you're, you're, you're false. Your skin, the skin is out. The hair is gone. Are there early bands you're connecting with locally? Well, I started going to the, to the, you know, started hanging out and like bands like Lee way and we was hanging outside with, with, with my getter. And he's always offered me donuts. I don't know why he, every time I ran to my getter, I mean, I might get a, sorry, my getter. Kind of the show. Yeah. My getter. Oh my gosh. And my getter shit. Works for you. Yeah. He's our guy. He's our buddy. Well, anyway, he always had a fucking box of donuts. He's like, yeah, you want donuts? My getter? No, fucking, um, fucking Mike from, um, Lee way. Oh, my getter. Mike, you always had fucking donors, always offered me donuts. I'm like, motherfucker with the donuts already. Like, yeah. But I mean, well, now it was always the hardcore bands, bands like Lee way. We were all friends. Um, almost everybody from the hardcore scene. We almost knew. Was there a division between the Brooklyn hardcore scene and the, and the city, like CVs and stuff? Not really. Okay. Not really. I mean, um, about Queens. I mean, we as sunset skins kind of. And a little out of here, we were, we were in trouble. You were mashing hard. You were mashing. Well, it was just more than just mashing. It was just, we were like, you know, we were looking for trouble. Okay. And, um, and, um, it was just a different era. There was nothing else to do. You know, motherfuckers got video games. We, we, you know, we had outside and brawling, you know, brawls and pussy. You know, like, what's your first band? What's the first band you ever sing for? Do you sing? Have you ever played an instrument or have you only been a frontman? I started with a guitar. Okay. Really? Uh, yeah. Um, somebody brought me that guitar because we weren't going to be able to afford no guitars. I didn't really know much about instruments, but I mean, I had two friends in my block that were like the metal heads in my block too. You know, um, Edwin and Edwin Lamboy and Ralph. Yeah. So they, you know, they always had guitars and stuff. And, but, uh, somebody who bought me a guitar, I can't remember who the fuck. But once I found out I had to buy strings and amp and I'm like, oh, I got to spend money like, oh hell no, I'm going to be a singer. What do singers need? Nothing. I'm like, good, I'm singing. That was, it was financial decisions. Yeah. So I've been playing lately. Like I've been, I had a guitar sitting there for 20 years. I got it fixed and I've been trying to play some of the Marauder songs. You know, they're hard to play. Tough. Yeah. They're tough, man. I get, they're tough. I'm, I'm struggling with like a motherfucker, man. I still in the beginning of one of the songs. I was trying to get to the other part, but, you know, once you get that, you get to get that and master kill that, you know, feel real good. Anthony was cool and sobbing. They had that cool chemistry because they came from two different backgrounds, you know, Anthony was more like a death leopard, you know, glam hair guy. You know, he liked, you know, thrashy and stuff like that. You could hear that in the leaves. Bark of the moon. Yeah. Yeah. You can. And so I was more, you know, death metal guy, death metal and hardcore and you know, and. So where do you meet? When do you meet? So I met Sam when I was hanging out with the Sunset skins and we're like, oh, we're gonna meet. And I met Sam. We stand in front of the moors for the first time and he fucking, I think he was just like, annoyed at something because we came like, oh, he's like, ah, I'm like, ah, that was quick. You know, but we ended up becoming boys and, you know, you know, very quickly. Yeah. Okay. He saw he I had loose screws. We all had loose screws. And you're like, yeah, you know, we all fit. Yeah. Well, you know, we all should be hanging together. But, you know, I mean, but, you know, it was because of the I think because the whole Latino thing, we always kind of look for each other. No matter where we go, even here, like I've been approached by so many, you know, other people than, you know, Cubans and Colombians like, oh, but I always try to represent for all Latinos. But back then, the days, you know, you didn't find too many of us. So we always look for each other. And when we did, we stuck together, especially in the punk hardcore scene. Yeah. You know, well, in the punk and the metal scene, more and more in the punk hardcore scene, you know, I don't think nobody even gave a fuck. Okay, cool. You know, we had because, you know, it was about beating yourself. Nobody really cared, you know, and. And I felt like I felt more at home in the hardcore scene than I did in the metal scene. To me, the metal scene was more just entertainment. You know, people watching people watching stuff like that. And after the show, there's not really much you go party this time. But there was nothing. But I found more, more than that in the community. You know, and we had like, you know, back in the days, people would do like little activist things and and events and stuff in between bands. And, you know, when they were changing, they'd do change over, they would come out, yo, we're having this and pro rally this, that we're doing this for this. Somebody needs help. Whatever. But, you know, you don't really see it anymore. You know, I mean, I know it's rough and especially something like this. You don't really do stuff. I mean, it runs on time. Yeah. Of the smaller shows. You don't really see it too much. It's out there. You just kind of you got to find it. Yeah, you got to go to the smaller shows. Yeah, for sure. You know, I don't go to any fucking shows. You know, I go, you play them. So do you see the like bands from Brooklyn like. Carnivore, confusion, life of agony. Biohazard all taken off kind of at the same time and put in Brooklyn on the map a little bit. Does that inspire you or light a fire under your ass to make music? So much came out of Brooklyn, you know, Brooklyn. And there was always, I mean, I mean, Carnival to me was the very first metal core band. Fuck yeah. Like definitively. Yeah, absolutely. Because, I mean, you know, I can't, I kind of feel like Marora kind of tried to pick off where they left off, not like music wise, you know, but that whole energy, you know, Brooklyn and put in Brooklyn back on the map, you know. So, I mean, and a lot of other great, I mean, I mean, Queens too, man. And there was those bands that had the mixture of Brooklyn and Queens. Do is together. And there was always, you know, and I mean, back then New York, there was a lot of coming out of New York and, you know, Long Island, a lot of great bands too. And the Bronx and I mean, there was a lot of coming out of New York. I don't see it coming out of New York like now as much. There's still a lot of bands, but nobody's making as much noise. I don't think the clubs are even opening doors like that, like to New York anymore. Like Long Island is popping off. You know, Brooklyn's got stuff. We got to go to Long Island to go to shows, man. It's crazy. And this. Early mashing. Yeah. This we've been breaking down the genealogy of the spin kick of the Karate Mosh. Tell me through your eyes, the origin of the Karate Mosh. Oh, well, well, I've had this conversation a lot, a lot of people throughout the years, man. And kicks were always a part of the heart of the, you know, throw people through like those, but there was always those skanking, circling, almost like a hardcore kick like that, that straight edge kick. But, you know, yeah, yeah, but doing roundhouses, you know, four, five in a time. And, you know, and, and doing and running out and doing those spinning kicks and just do a little spinning side kick to people's ribs. Yeah, I had, I kind of. The end of it. I kind of feel like I did a lot of it more than anybody else. Really? Yeah. Would you say it was you and Saab? I was going to say, I'm going to say me, Saab, mine is there was about less than 10 of us. And and 30 percent of them were in Maron. Yeah. Three, three of them were in Maron. And, um, yeah, I mean, damn, I used to just dance hard, too. Yeah, you know, you still do. The karate shit came from me. OK. Yeah. And, and, and a couple of other people were doing it, but they didn't train, but they were just good at throwing kicks. Well, I was actually training. You were training in martial arts at the time. Yeah, I was training in La Chante d'Ablis, this French Muay Thai dude. But, but he wasn't teaching Muay Thai, but we learned a little on the side. OK. You know, we were just trying to teach us more like kickboxing style, you know, is that where later on when I had seen Marauder, if this would be kind of early mid 2000s, where your shadow boxing and stuff, is it coming from from? I do that to warm up. But one of my favorite, I know we're not there yet, but one of my favorite moves of all time is you throw in the mic out to the crowd to just like, fuck it, you sing it in the shadow box. That's one of the coolest things I can like conceptualize. Yeah. Does that come from just training and just you? It's just natural. Yeah, training. Now, are you doing the karate moves and leveling up the mosh to defend yourself from the big scary skinheads? Or is it just style? I just loved it because when I was a kid in Puerto Rico, I boxed. And then when I came back to dinner, then I took Taekwondo and then the instructor robbed everybody left and took all the money. We were waiting for class one day and just the beginning of the month, you know, everybody faced. Oh, man. It just took off. So I found a kickboxing school and I went there. And but I've always loved it. And I, you know, I do stuff on my own. I always I always watch I'm all I'm all I'm all all these fight forums. Yeah. And chats. And I'm always watching all the pros and I watch all the old guys. And I always watch drills and new methods. And I always try to corporate and add them on. And I always try to keep myself loose and limbo. I never try to get big because I always wanted to be like, you know, light on my feet and fast, you know, I did the weight training one, one point and I got sluggish, man. I got, you know, I got I was getting I got up to 180 pounds. I'm 150 always 150, 155. The most are you just purely calisthenics? And yeah, I run too much, bro. I just I do seven miles. I'll run and I don't eat that much and no running. I mean, we have to have a big full consumption. So I love to eat and I'll eat a lot. I won't set in, but I'm not. But you're burning those calories running. Yeah. And I eat throughout the day, but just I nitpick at you. Yeah. I don't actually sit and have a meal. Sure. But when I was working as a maintenance man, I'm doing the sanitation work. You know, I'm cleaning a beach, a whole beach by hand with two or three other guys. And I'm going to load on all that shit. By time nine o'clock comes stuff. And I'm dressed in sweat in the summertime, you know, and which was fucking me up too. Because that's why I quit my job to do the band because. Fuck yeah. Physically, it was fucking me on my baths, having all these back problems. You know, in and out of the truck, I fell off the truck a couple times. Oh, no. A couple of asses. The back metal door of the truck fell off and fell on my foot. I thought it broke my foot and it didn't break anything. Good. It's crazy, but I went back to work the next day. All that much. Yes. So there was there was was there any specific moment where you remember thinking yourself, I'm in this pit, I'm going to throw a roundhouse kick. Like what band was playing? Yeah. Yeah. When you threw the first spin kick. So I couldn't really tell you. It was funny when my first time is going to see these. But you know, I think, you know, hmm, it wouldn't be the crazy country club. Right. Wow. People haven't been there. Shit. Oh, it's a bank. I live right by there. Yeah. Yeah. I'm in that neighborhood. I go by it all the time. I said, I said, we stopped there with Tom Sheehan and just talked about this. Actually, yeah. Yeah. Well, I saw Maraud at the crazy country club. Interesting. Tell me about early Marauder before you were in the band. I wasn't really. I was bouncing back and forth a lot, you know, I always I'm going to say I'm more of a I'm first a street kid before a hard court kid. OK. Because even during the hard court, my I always went back to the neighborhood, you know, and I'm in my neighborhood was trying to always kick me out. You know, the guys in my block like, oh, you know, especially when I started doing bands and music, I do music. They didn't even I'm doing a little bullshit. They think they don't know nothing. They think I'm, you know, doing big shit. I don't get out of this neighborhood. Don't fucking come back here. We don't want, you know, like for some reason, people in my neighborhood never wanted me to be involved in shit. I was going through moments where I was having a rough time in my neighborhood. I was. Acting out a lot. I don't have no brothers. I was on my own and there was an attempt on my life, man, that's why I don't. I don't just spirituality because something saved me and it wasn't anything physical, wasn't anything human. Like something was coming towards me. Danger was coming to me. Something was letting me know that my legs were giving up as I was walking on the street to the point that I couldn't walk anymore. And I'm like, yo, am I going paralyzed? This is happening in broad daylight. So I was like, what the fuck? So I'm walking for them. Like, I don't know what to do, but drop. So I dropped to the floor. That's when the car slowed up and those motherfuckers went. Whoa, they took four shots at me and they just get drove around for everybody in my neighborhood. So my legs came right up. I see all the dudes in my corner. I see one of my friends homie, June, but little tiniest Puerto Rican. You know, he's like this pulls out a gun. He's like, yo, what's going on? I didn't even stop to talk, bro, because I don't even know who the fuck that was. Yeah. And for like almost a year, I was like, I would call people in the corner. I'm like, yo. Don't meet me at my door and have them walk me to the, you know, stop. Stupid kid. So this day, I don't know who did that. I could speak about that in the hardcore scene because they had nothing to do with ours before hardcore, but I don't talk about it in my neighborhood. I don't go to bars and talk about it because motherfucking we sit right next to me. Oh, that was you. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I don't even know what I did. We did a lot of fighting, but sure. And that, you know, that'll do it sometime. Wow. But I remember you and I had a conversation. Maybe I was confused with somebody else. Maybe you're right. Sure. You're talking about spirituality in that, in that instance. Years later, you and I would have a conversation about downfall of Christ. You were explaining the song to me and said, and I quote, and I didn't even believe in God yet, yo. And I think about that all the time. Do you believe in God now? You think? Um, not what people perceive it to be. Yeah. I believe it as a form of energy. Sure. So if you try to be godly, try to better yourself in all aspects, like, you know, you just prove who you are and in all different parts, your mind, your body, where you speak, talk, your knowledge, you know what I mean? I form with that. But, you know, I've been let down by all these religions lately, but I don't even know what the fuck I can think anymore. I feel that if you just just be normal, be a human being, you know, the difference between right and wrong, right? You know, you're not hurting. You're not abusing children. You're not killing innocent people. Then you're all right. I don't know. Everybody makes these mistakes. What about fucking been through? It's not nothing new, you know? So I'm trying to get beat up about it, thinking like, oh, I'm such a fucking piece of shit. I'm an outcast. Right. Look what things are, you know, I shouldn't have never did that. Am I like, I'm a motherfucker? I'm like, I've done that shit a million times. Don't feel bad. Shit happens. But I never did anything that was dishonorable. I could always hold my head up and be like, you know, never put my hands on fucking children and never did shit. And I see a lot of motherfuckers coming out of the New York hardcore scene that have done that and court cases. And I'm like, wow. Wow. Now, come back. We never got to meet Saab. Really? And so I was wondering if there were any stories that come to mind. So the first sob stories that come to mind that you'd want to share about him. Just even to us, you know, we he's such a mythical thing. Yeah, mythical is good. So I was, um, so I was sob. So I didn't give a fuck about nobody. Oh, all right. I'll tell you what, Saab took, man, I yelled at him for this. Okay. But it was fun at the same time. So it takes me to the Moors and I'm with a girl. Just kidding. That chick. And, um, I have a book bag with me and I have like a baby, maybe about six feet of chain, like big, thick chain in there wrapped all I had in my bag. You know, I couldn't wear it and walk around with a big fat chain, you know, but I had a chain in there. So I don't know. So me and Saab, Saab takes me to the Moors, some band called Grim Allegiance, a Grim Alliance. They had, they could have been maybe a little, you know, so Saab went over there, took me over there to confront somebody. Did he tell you he was doing that? Not really. Not really, man. And we got there and I saw the band playing like, yo, we shouldn't even be here with these fucking, fucking motherfucking, like, you know, I gotta talk to somebody. So he went to talk to the singer of that band. There was a problem with him and his new name was Carmelo. I think his name was Carmelo. Stocky kid dude that, that's how I was like, bye, bye. There was some words being, I'm watching the whole thing next to you. You know, we had the ball and we get, we get surrounded. No. Yeah. We get surrounded. They were like a bunch of metalheads and overnight it became skinheads and they, they surrounded us. There was a lot of them. Yeah. Fucking big boys. So I'm like, what the fuck? You know, so I, I, I started going for my chain in the bag next, you know, Saab disappears. He left me by myself, surrounded by these dudes. So I'm like, fuck, I'm like, I'm like Roy Rogers. I'm like, Roy Rogers with that chain and, you know, trying to create a perimeter. I'm like, what the fuck? All of a sudden Saab comes flying because Lamors had a higher part and it was like a, the powers a little bit more. Yo, he jumps from the fucking with a crate, a milk crate and cats home. You're right in the face. Yo, for some reason I saw it in slow mo. I don't know why. They looked at you. I just got a milk crate right in the face and now they fucking now. And I'm like, now I really gotta shut up. What the fuck? So Esteban, a band called Mr. Pickle. Ah, wow. And this the pickle Esteban and Joe, the bounce, Joe, one of the bounces from them, from that club Lamor, he was cool dude, big Joe. Esteban had his car in the back and we, they took us to the back and we, we ran out the back and Esteban brought us, brought us back to Saab's neighborhood. It's a sunset park. We went and got Saab's brother and went to the park and picked up like a whole crew board, he only came back like four car loads for the people. And we almost jumped Ken Creedie in the front because like, you know, he's like, yo, yo, we had bats and everything we were in the fucking cause trouble. Yes. They were out of there. Yeah. So something else happened after that. I think the time that we went with the sunset skins, we went into the town in neighborhood, like our 18th Avenue around there. That's really Brooklyn, right by LaMorris. So we went to Co-Fights and we ended up fighting the neighborhood. All Italian dudes went to pull out a police badge. Yeah, man. I remember karate Chris getting hair boring. And we all got separated and then the Italian neighborhood, modern neighborhood, they were fucking coming out by the tons. And we out there fucking 18 years old fighting grown ass men. They hitting us. So we boom, boom. And I'm like, we had a separate and I was a little, I'm like, yo, we got to get the fuck out of here. Yeah. These group, group bars are going to take us. End up in the fucking water somewhere. You know, they have those beautiful Italian leather shoes. They can't get them stained. You know, so yeah, we, you know, those are fun. Okay. That's great. Thank you for sharing. Good, good, Beverly. Sob was sob. Sob did a lot of crazy shit, man. Well, tell me about hearing the Marauder demo with minus for the first time. What were your thoughts on just hearing the band as a, as a, as a. Actually, I never heard a demo. Really? Really? To this day? Well, no, I, no, I've heard of them afterwards. Yeah. I saw them live before, you know, before the demo. What'd you think? I heard the demo years later when I, I joined them. I joined them. Yeah. Um, it was different. It was a lot slower. It was, it was, it was, they had, you know, it was, it was, the song seemed totally different. Yeah. Life is pain. Yeah. But I mean, it was, it was, it was, it was good. I mean, I, I, they started to create a buzz with that. And I was good. I mean, I was a fan, you know, we were all fans and they were our brothers. And no matter what, we were going to support them, you know? Yeah. You know, and, um. And you're doing full contact at this time or shortly after, because it seems like full contact was before joining Marauder. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. I meant, um, okay. So there was, I think they might have been two versions of that. Okay. Yeah. I think I did one with the two, these two twin brothers from Italy. And, um, and then I did that full contact with, um, was it Joe Brown? Is it 40 in that band? It was short. That was awful truth. Ah. Awful truth. That was like a thrash band with Joe Branson 40 that played in, um, Dark Side. Nice. Okay. And, um, Disassociate. Played in Dark Side Dissociate. He, um, yeah. Fuck, I don't know. Damn, that's a hard one, bro. Full contact was very short, right? Yeah, but I'm trying to remember, um, did I play with, hmm. Okay, hold on. Oh, you might know, you might, you might be better at this than me. Okay. So wait a minute. When I was, oh no, that was before Marauder. No, was it after? It was after the full contact demo came out after Marauder. Right? Okay. I would think it would be, I don't know if it was after you. Were you doing both bands at the same time? Anybody have an answer? Yeah, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. But what, how does it occur that you join Marauder? Yeah. How do you join Marauder? Because you're assuming they heard a full contact demo. Or that, or I mean, that's just their friend, their friend Jorge from Moran Town, right? Saab had, yeah, you're right. When I was playing full contact, I was, it was the other version with the, the twin Saab had saw me at Bond Street Cafe. He's like, you're a fucking whatever. And he was, you know, I mean, he always, he's always dissing everybody else, but he didn't, he goes, yo, fuck it, suck. But, um, you agree with all this anyway. But anyway, I was with my girl back in the days on walking down the street. And then I guess that we're having the issues with Marauder. And that's when I ran into Saab and I hadn't seen him in a while. He goes, yo, he came out to the train station and I'm walking down St. Mark's, you know, and he's like, yo, what's up? And he goes, yo, you still singing? And I'm like, yeah, fuck it around. And he goes, you want to try from Marauder? I'm like, yeah, fuck it. He goes, I'll get you the demo. So like three days later, I went and sang the set, you know, and I had like 80% of it down. And, um, it worked out great. It worked out great. And, um, it was just from there on, it was just madness. So you knew you had that voice? Um, like how did you find that voice? Well, I've always, I was always, um, I was always singing other people's shit. I was always, um, I was singing bands. Man, I was singing diversity of stuff from like Motley Crue to Flotsam and Jetsam and Slayer and so I would try different types of voices. So I kind of trained my voice to go have some range, you know? Um, plus I grew up with R&B and hip hop and Latin music. So I'm always singing, you know, I got a little, so, um, sing was always in my, in my, in my surroundings, you know, there was always music and it was always dance and that kind of atmosphere. I used to be a breakdance in the beginning back in the days. And then I started rapping a little bit. You know, I was in that whole hip hop shit and Puerto Rico found the middle and all that. But, um, how did I find my router? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, how does Minus leave and how do you get in? Well, I mean, it was just destiny, bro. I happened to be walking on the street and stop happened to be coming up and I hadn't seen him in a couple of years. Wow. And he was like, that's when he saw me. He was like, you're all right. Are you still singing? I'm like, yeah. He goes, and we took it from there from there. And three months later we get the deal with Century Media, you know, and it was history. I mean, I had some, we had some legendary shows and moments, man. I mean, I remember when the first time we played Castle and Saab attacked Rick on stage and I had to attack both of them. We had a fight in the middle of the show and the kids in Castle, generally the fuck is going on during your set. And we were right back to playing something happened when Rick Lopez was fucking mad at Saab and Saab was fucking mad at Rick and Rick's like, and Saab was on his like punching shit. And I'm like, what? And I'm singing. I'm turning around going. And actually, you know, Saab fucking attacks Rick in the middle of the show. And I'm like, what the fuck up? I've got to fucking tackle them and anything hiding behind the amp. Oh, shit. You know, and then he at that time was like, uh, and but we had a great show. We ran. And fucking took it out on the songs afterwards. So you said three months later you're signed to Central Media and your first order of business in the band basically is recording Master Killer. Yeah. That's why I was very shy on that record, man. I'm going to tell you. I held back on my vocals because if you listen to the Marauder stigmata of seven inch, I'm belting it. You know, and I'm using my range and everything. I kind of felt like not in a bad way, but I kind of felt like Paris, Mayhew and Vinny were like, Oh, you know, they made me sound like, you know, which is cool. I'm like, I'm singing, but I'm not really giving my 100% there. And then he said something that I kind of got pissed off. Like, like, oh, you know, like, uh, you have that accent. I'm like, we fucking accent you talking about because Max and Sepertoria got really crazy and the world loves them. That's right. You know what I'm saying? I'm talking about, you know, so I don't know what accent they were trying to kill. Um, my New York accent. Cause we also black, white or Latino. We all sound like we're Italians. Yeah. We talked to Paris. We talked to Paris a couple of years ago now, actually. Yeah. And at the end of the interview, we talked about doing master killer. What was the story he told us about running? Told us that you had never run before. And bullshit. Yeah, that was just good things just to do them. Come on. I mean, what am I going to do? Just all of a sudden just jump up and grind my feet on somebody's couch. Like it's like, you know, something to do. Come on. I got a little more sense than that. Cause I box and train and I work for a fucking, a weed service. And I used to live in Uptown, Manhattan. I used to ride from 95th Street, go hang out on the lower side, go right over the Winsborough Bridge, go to my hand neighborhood, run in the hallway or fucking day smoke hang out. Go and then 12 o'clock at night. I'm doing all that journey back. I had crazy cardio. And that's why that run wasn't nothing. It wasn't that, you know, I never ran before. I was always active. I had crazy cardio. I kick box. And he said as much too. He said like you had the best cardio he's ever seen. I've always had. I just never really like ran. Yeah, I remember grinding my feet on these guys. That's what he meant. Like running for the sake of running you had never done. Well, I ran one night when they were recording. I went out and I ran. I don't know where the fuck I'm going. So I stopped. I remember seeing like certain stores and it was dark. It was pitch black. So every time a car would drive by, I tried to speed up because it would light up the street. Oh, I was a little scared. I was like running in dark woods. I'm like, what the fuck am I doing, bro? So I run to a spot. I named the stores that I see and then I come back right back. And I think it was named with Sores. Tom Sores. Yeah. Um, that the engineer. Um, I'm like, yeah, I ran. So I ran to a spot and I saw this store, this store and this. He goes, oh, that's like six miles. You know, and Paris to go, oh, that's six miles. He goes, no, it's like six miles there. And then he like six miles. He ran like a 10 to 12 miles. I'm like, really? I did that shit. Because they were like, no, you gone for a while. I'm like, I don't fucking ran to this spot to this store. So this, this and that. And then I turned right back around. And he was like, yo, that's fucking far. I didn't know I could do that. Yeah. I just, because I was always on the bike playing handball, you know, my running was just, I never really ran like, like a runner. Yeah, you know, um, in school and gym and if we had to do some type of track thing up. Yeah. But never really jog like, like a marathon. You were running together and you had like Chuck Taylor's on, right? Didn't he say like you just threw on and you went in front of him and we're running backwards talking about the record. Yeah. I still do that to this day. I run backwards. And I, I, I, I does great because it's like, um, I do, I started doing like the bear crawls and stuff like that. These gorilla movements for upper body strength and stuff. And when you do these movements, like, especially when like the crawling, when you do backwards, you work in different muscles and feel them like, oh, shit. So I, you know, so when I'm running, I'm doing the same shit. And I, I shot a box when I run. I had my neighbors one day, it was like 30 degrees outside. I had no shirt on and I'm running backwards. And they're like, is that, is that all right? And they're like, oh hell no. You're like, fuck no, fuck this dude's crazy. Like, I got home. They're like, what the fuck are you doing? I'm like, running. How much of master killer is written before you're in the band? All of it. Okay. And half of the other record. Right. So, you know, so that's why I wrote only a little bit on the next one. Then after that, I, I, I, you know, so I never really, I mean, I did write, you know, I mean, for my other bands and stuff like that, but I, you know, it's come to rights from a lot of like put on the spot. Cause I'm, I'm not Vinny, you know, so Vinny was the guy in terms of writing. Yeah. Vinny wrote Vinny Vodal. And he's the drummer. Yeah. He was the drummer. He wrote a lot of guitar riffs too. Yeah. Yeah. Well Vinny and Anthony, Saab went out to smoke a blunt. It came back and they wrote master killer. The song. Yeah. Saab came back and they already had wrote met. They like went out for like 15, 20 minutes and Vinny and Anthony wrote master killer. You know, and saw like, what the fuck? And they got wrote a song like, yeah, wrote all those, jamming and whatever, you know, so at this point, that's how they told it to me. I wasn't there for that. That was, you know, wow. At this point you had regrown your as mine is called a beautiful hair. Did I grow my hair back? Yeah. I mean, you had all the braids. All the promo. I did have the hair. Iconic braids. Yeah. I fluctuated. I shaved my head at one point and let it grow. Then I shaved it again. I let it grow out again. Oh, now I just got to, you know, you got the thing. Yeah. I'm known as Marauder braids. How do you feel about that? The master killer demos. Those are legendary. Those I think are getting officially released this year for like the first time. Tell me about those demoing those songs for the first time with your voice on them. How was that? Hearing that back? Well, I don't think we did. Did we do the master killer demo? I think there was a, yeah, we did. Well, that was, that was the song that we used for that. Yeah, I don't, man, what did we do? There's demos and I think they're officially coming out this year for the 30th anniversary. Really? Yeah. So that's crazy. Oh, fuck. Well, I know of the demo we did. Well, no, that wasn't, that was a demo that they had turned into a record. Yeah. We'll talk about that in a second. Yeah. Well, I'm not going to jump it. Are you in touch with Vinny or Anthony or any of the guys from that era today? It's really sad, this part right here. I got issues with the Hoveyny thing. I had a moment where I had to leave the band because I couldn't play or other certain thing. People have certain vices that I couldn't be around. That I, we used to joke about it on, about him with that, but I witnessed something on tour that pushed me over the edge. And I mean, if it were for Sabah, he would have got ugly. And then I had to do these shows and not be able to make eye contact with somebody. I remember my band, you know, so I ended up leaving, you know, and I did the whole, Eddie came in and all that. Then when he left the band, I came back. But Anthony, Anthony's out here somewhere. Anthony's been, I don't know if I should, I mean, I don't know if I should put his, I mean, I've been trying to find them. Last, I heard in 2017, somebody said that he was living like out of a box, out of a box out here. He's out here in the street somewhere. He's been out here for a while. You know, the drugs and stuff. And you always had some of the little issues. You always had problems. You know, I've always tried to help him. You know, he was always kind of nervous and he's called him Tony Jitters. He used to get mad at you because he was always jittery. But I mean, you know, he went downhill and he never was able to come back up, you know, and just like a couple of months ago, I spoke to his brother and he was like, yo, this, you know, I kind of wanted to find him and try to get him out of streets and let his family, you know, get him to his family for they can help him. But I don't even know if the family is going to be able to deal with it because it's just like his brother's like, he needs somebody with him all the time. He can't be trusted, you know, and, but not heard he's got like no use of an arm or something like that. So I'm like, let's, let's, let's kind of help him. So I kind of wanted to like, I've been struggling with this. I didn't know if I wanted to go out and publicly and put his dirt out there. But I mean, the motherfucking needs help. And he is part of this band, you know, and I feel bad for him. It sucked. You know, I feel, I feel bad for people like that, man. You know, I mean, we all been through it, but some motherfuckers never got out of there, you know what I'm saying? So it's like, sucks, man. I wish the best for him, bro. Seriously. Pardon this interruption. We hate to keep you from this amazing episode with that. We can only describe him as the president of hard door, basically. The reason for the season, Jorge from Marauder, two very important things brought you this episode. You know what I hate, bro? What's that, Colin? When I go visit my friend Vic over at Mills Vintage and he has a bunch of stuff that I just need to buy. If only there was some kind of way or code or something that would get you some money off of that. Lucky for all of you, you can go to Mills Vintage USA, the greatest place on the entire internet for vintage hardcore punk metal memorabilia. Use code hard lore, get 10% off. I'm talking Marauder, hate breed, all out war. Bad brains, Pro Mags. He's got it all. He's got the shirt Scott Vogel wore on the back of one of the underdogs right now. He legitimately has shirts that I have never seen before. Go on the Instagram, take a look. You're going to be shocked at what he has had, what he currently has. So please save me from getting more shirts and get them, please. And also sell them your stuff so that maybe I can get those instead. Hopefully not though. I can't do it. Can't do it anymore. You can. Mills Vintage USA, the greatest, not only the greatest store for hardcore metal punk memorabilia, but the greatest archive. So go check it out. Look through all the stuff on there, all the old stuff that's sold and get inspired. This episode is also brought to you by none other than Guilty Party, the greatest menswear store in all of North America. I got two pair of pants on the way. I can't wait to get it up in them. You got the Samurai Baker pants. I got the Samurai Baker pants. I had to size up a little bit. I wore a 34. I had to size up a little bit. That's okay. And then I got the Studio DR-35. Did you go 35? 36, because let me tell you. Daddy's plump. Good for you. Good for you. So I had to get those. And then I got the Studio DR-35. 1950s. Beautiful. One of the best things about pants like this is the option of getting a 35, honestly. True. I'm a 35, 32. It's a miracle. Free note, 316. Head, full count, red wings. They got all of it. Dude, boots, pants, jackets, shirts, belts, bags. You can change your life with a few simple things on this site. If you use Code Harlor, you're going to get 10% off. You're going to get free shipping if it's expensive. And it just may be. But this stuff is built to last you your entire life. Anything I've ever gotten from Guilty Party still fits. I still wear it. I still rock it. And now it's just an essential part of my everyday. Let us not forget that it is co-owned by none other than one of the great drummers in Hardcore, Mr. Champ, Hammett, the drummer of Foundation. You guys love him. You know him. Come on. That's right. Send us a message if you need advice on pants or shirts or whatever. Send them a message. They're very knowledgeable. Go into the store and get your stuff hemmed on the spot. Use Code Hardlor. Have a great day. Back to the episode. Let's break down the record a little bit here. Anything about that? Time ends. What about it? I just want to learn your thoughts on it. You hear this. I want to know Jorge's mind. So you're walking into this record. It's already written. It's done. You hear these songs track by track. Are you thinking like this shit is unbelievable? Well, what's going on with the world today? I've been listening to a lot of the lyrics and I'm like, you know, we like a little bit ahead of the time with the fuck was going on because I'm like, holy shit. So every now and then I'm like, yeah, I'll put a marauder song on my pain. Like this is for what's going on today. Got to know time ends and you know, and beseech the masses and stuff like that. And you know, and I mean, we've always had these issues in the world. I think that we're getting to a crucial point right now. But I mean, they're on point. These songs. I mean, they weren't written by me. But as the guy who's had to sing them for quite a while, I really, I believe in them. I believe in them. They're they're they're realistic songs and they're not no fantasy bullshit. You know, you know, I mean, they're scary issues, man, because they're about life. And we're not out here singing fantasy songs about Satan or bullshit, which I love shit too. Like, you know, I love my black metal and death metal too, you know, you know, but, you know, but, um, you know, like some voodoo songs like, you know, like, what the fuck, man? I'm listening to a few of the songs lately and I'm like, God damn, bro. The fuck, man. Do you remember. So Paris's contributions, do you remember anything that he contributed that changed the songs overall? I don't know. Specifically. I don't really see. I can see him helping Anthony. I can remember him with as far as the songs. I mean, the demos exist. We've heard. Yeah. I mean, the songs didn't didn't really change. Um, when we're there pretty much the way we went in there with them. Um, there were some things that needed to, there were like smarter things to do that he did help out. I mean, he's a good guitar dude and he knows the shit. I think he did help Anthony a lot with the solos because Anthony wanted to do a couple of little weird things and, you know, I think he said there's one part that he played. Yeah. Some, some, I don't remember which though, but I know he said, I think he might have, yeah, yeah, there was something, you know, I remember there was something going on in the studio that he might have had to pick up the guitar. It was a downfall of Christ, the long, yeah, the long one that's like a minute long that fades out and back in and back in. I think so. Yeah. I know he helped with setting up the guitars, C strings, C sharp standards, C sharp like carnival. Like, you know, I mean, we weren't of every, um, easy band to work with, you know, I was probably the easiest one to work with, you know, but and Vinny too, but all you know, Anthony has some issues. I remember him spassing out a little bit over shit. I'm like, what the fuck? Tony Jitters. Yeah, Tony Jitters. Yeah. He's getting mad. Why you going with Tony Jitters? Yeah. Do you remember your first feeling, the first thought you had hearing the whole record back for the first time? Yeah. You know, I did remember when I, well, I feel the, you know, when we recorded the songs that we heard them, like, they weren't really mixed yet. I was, I was a little bit like, damn, man, you know, like, I never, I never in my life set out to do any of this and it's all falling into my hands. Like, I never set out to be in a band. I fucked around music and you know, stuff like, all this shit just fell into my hands. Like everything just fell into my hands. It was like, it was like, it was destined to be that. Yeah. Like I didn't really have a very strong spiritual spirituality that I've had these little confrontations with voodoo people that they always try to bring me in, you know. One time in the street, lady, mom saw me and she told my mom, that's your son. She felt me. She like kind of walked and she's like, stopped and started looking around and she's like, you know, she's like, who's, and those first time I seen like a real Ifa, like a Santeria lady or a big glasses and Spanish lady, a lot of beads and stuff. And she was like, oh, she said something that I was, I had at, she had, she said, oh, he's powerful. So then when I, you know, the Rumblers, my boy Ralph, I think might be the main guy now in the Rumblers. His cousin is a big Santeria priest and I went to her place and she was inside giving a reading. She didn't know I was outside and he went inside. I saw she had like a door that splits in half, you know, the top. Yeah. I've seen her talking and he comes on and he goes, yo, she asked me if you were here because she knew that I wanted to visit her. And he's like, yeah, he's outside. She goes, yo, I felt him. So after she gave me my reading, she wanted me to be a part of her thing. She goes, yo, you had that. We need people like you. But to me at that age to learn to be involved in Santeria, you're about like 350 people you got to learn and stuff. I struggle with marauder lyrics, you know, yesterday I lost a whole verse, you know, like, what the fuck was that word again? But, um, yeah, I just I couldn't commit like that, but I still practice. Like I just I just lost to my bracelets. I don't know if you see me. I have these two bracelets. One has seven colors and one has red and white, you know, it's one's the seven African colors and seven powers and one's a red and white. It's Chango. Do you have an altar at home? Oh, a small one. Yeah, small one. But I haven't been doing the right thing. I think maybe that's why they broke off. Gotcha. Well, actually my dog was chewing on my fucking. That'll do it. One. He chewed on one. He's like, motherfucker, the little one just broke. If you don't mind me asking, is that more of a neighborhood thing or is because I know that that it's a Cuban thing. I didn't know that was a Puerto Rican thing. Oh, no, San Teresa. It's a Caribbean thing. You know, Santo Domingo, Haiti, Cuba, you know, it's, you know, it's it's it's strong and Haiti. They don't fuck around. They got zombies over there. They got people that apparently they like in trances and they got them doing labor. If you look it up, there's documented stuff on that, you know, and they sell there's a they sell like a thing over there that people that they could like. Resurrect. Not just a wreck control. You like is I think it's like make you seem like you were dead. Like, and but you're like, it's a very weird thing. You got to look at it. It's like James Bond. It's a voodoo shit that you might even find in some movies. I think you might have did something like that in Little Believers with Martin Sheen, right? My father of the Martin Sheen. Right. Martin Sheen. Right. I think it was him in that movie. They might that was the only time I saw a movie about San Terry. Oh, wow. Well, remember doubles advocate with Al Pacino and there's there's the guy and I know it was a thing. It was a guy from New York who had like a goat head with the tongue. Yes. Yes. Yes. But San Terry is not really a religion or anything. And you and you and it's not really I mean, they have a different versions of it. You know, the Piritita, which is not really that hardcore. Then they have the Palos, the Paleros, they they controlling spirits. And like they they get them to do shit, you know, so it gets spooky at times. Whose idea was it to change life is pain to life is fucking pain. Oh, I don't know. Was that you or Paris? Yeah, it had to be one of our or Vinny. I guess I could tell you it's fucking hard. It just fit better. It just yeah. Yeah, so it's still about missing. You know, maybe it might have just been like just floated. Yeah. Yeah. Do you ever still change the lyrics of your mirror shows black to your mother's most cracked? I did it yesterday. You did it. It was once. I did it all the time. It was the most crack. It hits man. It hits. I know we already talked about it. I know I apologize. But I want you to know that the secondary breakdown in time ends, which I know we already talked about where you you hit that. Yeah, is one of my most favorite heavy moments in music period. Thank you. Appreciate it. Was that was that suggested where did you just say fuck it? I'm going to try something. You remember anything about that? I don't know. I think I just I think I was just doing it. Just felt it. Well, the album starts with an iconic. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, true. Whose note was yeah? Where did yeah come from? Who got you into yeah? From from the Metallica guy, the singer, James Everett. Yeah. You're doing yeah. Yeah. And you're on that perfect. Wow. No, I don't know. I don't know. I just we just landed it flow. Did you feel like you made a timeless classic album? Not to like halfway down the Marrota path. Okay. Not until like after like 20 years. Oh, wow. Okay. I didn't really you know and then having different people play in the band and line. I never even thought the Marrota music was tough at all. And Mike talked like, yo, it's not easy, bro. It's not easy. And he goes, you know, and a lot of them have played it wrong. Yeah. Yeah. I'll be watching. I'll be like, yeah, I can't beat or played them all wrong. The four the triplets downfall of Christ. That's long. It's a long time. Go easy on. Yeah. It's their hard song. I don't play so I'm like, you know, so now I'm like, learning the beginning of life is paying. I'm fucking struggling like a motherfucker. Just that. Yeah. Do you do you recall the reaction to the album at the time from your peers or just from fans? What was it? 94 96 30 year. The reaction. Yeah. How did people react to it? It doesn't. It's not quite hard for it. It's not quite metal. I mean, the reaction, I actually, you know, it was great. You know, it was not what I expected to. I didn't, you know, I mean, you know, I mean, I never really thought highly of myself or anything I did, you know, and I just thought, you know, I mean, I saw so many. I have so many friends and bands and they all put out demos and records. Nobody, you know, sure. You know, I guess I still had that hardcore attitude outlook on things. Well, we just do it for the glory type of thing. And just for fun or whatever it should. Some giggles, you know, whatever the fuck, but it became a lot more than that. And I didn't realize that until 20 years later, like in my career, it really took a while for it to hit me. And I was like, wow, you know, I'm like, you know, I mean, these 10 songs that were written before you joined the band would go on to define your life as an artist. Yeah, you know, you know, I know it's a stop, man, you know, okay. Because if he didn't stop me that day, he could have just said, oh, we're not going to have to say anything about the band. He could have gone with somebody else, you know, but everything happens for a reason, bro. And I really believe that. I heard a story. I don't remember who told me this, that after Eddie did the demo, when, when, after you had left the band briefly and Eddie Lee way did the did his version of his demo, that you would listen to it and you were like psyched on it. Yeah, you thought it was cool. Yeah, man, I went to that show and everything I was going crazy. That's awesome. You know, let's get there. So five deadly venoms. The the recording that we hear today was meant to be pre production. Is that true? Those were demos. Well, we thought it was meant to be pre production, you know, and what happened and that's that's the way it was getting talked. You know, I don't know. I think, I think, you know, I think Andy might have pissed off Century Media to the point, you know, I mean, things weren't right, but that wasn't the way to go about them. And at one point I told Anthony, you'll stop harassing them, bro. Let's do it the right way. You know, but stop calling him up. And like, I know he was, he was, and he was causing, he was, he was just Anthony, you know, and I kind of felt like, man, I did this. They did that to fucking, they did that to fucking to get back at us because they had to put it out. But what did they so so even your record vocals? This understanding, I mean, nothing was really clear, you know, so, you know, I mean, so you go into this session as a band to to pre produce these songs. They do this full session. Do you record vocals before leaving the band? Before what? Before leaving the band. The band? Yeah. Because, because the only the leeway demo exists because those songs were abandoned at one point and we're going to be taken to be this new band, the Brooklyn Queens expression, right, the BQE. So did you record vocals with the intention of them being pre production or did you record vocals once you came back to the band? Right. To put it out. Because they sound. They sound great. They sound like a final. Yeah. I mean, the like the beautiful melodies and find my way. That was a demo. I worked. Okay. Wow. But I wasn't, you know, I sang that very unconfident. Really? Yeah. I, I didn't, I wasn't relaxed with it. Saying it. I wasn't sure. And I didn't, I don't feel like I worked on it enough. Okay. But either way, you're thinking this is a demo. It's good enough. Yeah. We'll come back to it. Exactly. So I figured, you know, by the time it did the recording, we'd have it a little bit better, you know, just for them to more reference, you know, the demo. And I didn't happen that way. But I mean, I sing it better now than I, you know, relax. I'm very glad you played it. You know, that was awesome. I've never seen it. Yesterday was the worst part of the, singing part was the part of the worst I sang it. Because I was fucking screaming all the whole night. By the time I got up there, I lost my singing part of the voice. I felt like shit. I didn't fucking struggle in but whatever. I've seen Marauder a few times. I've never seen you play that song. So that was, that was very happy. Thank you. So you got this, this pre-production that turns into Five Deadly Venoms. Why, why do you leave the band before it comes out? Because you joined Il Nino in 1998. Because of that, the drummer situation. I gotcha. That, that, um, because of that situation. I don't even want to mention it. Yeah, but then Pocuse. Because it's like, you know. Sure. I'm a favor by that message. Yeah, no problem. You know, something like, you know. But then Pocuse plays on Five Deadly Venoms. Right? Did Pocuse play on Five Deadly Venoms? I don't know. You tell me. Yes. Okay. He did, he did play. So then you still feel the need to leave just because it just doesn't feel right anymore? Uh, no. Or is it that Il Nino you wanted to do this Il Nino thing? So wait, did I come back? I think so, yeah. Okay. Yeah, that was the 99 record. Yes, yes. Okay. You recorded long before 99. Right. And you joined Il Nino in 98. So how does that timeline work? I don't remember how that happened. Because then, because they think you're out. They're like, okay, well, we got to get rid of his vocals and this is a new band. Yeah. Which is why the Eddie demo exists. Yeah. So I'm, I'm wondering. Oh yeah, it was, it was after the recording. Yeah. It was after the recording and, um, it was that little incident that, uh, you know, and then, um, I just, I just couldn't, I just couldn't hang around that. Okay. And, you know, Dave Chavarrios, I knew Dave Chavarri and we started doing the Il Nino thing. I mean, Mark Rizzo was in that in the beginning. Mark Rizzo was, you know, He played guitar for you last night. Yeah. He killed it. Yeah. I love how he shakes his head. Dude, he, I don't know, no disrespect to any of the other guys. That was the, every solo was there. Great job in there. Um, every solo was like album quality, which was, Yeah. It was nice to hear. Well, every time you speak to Mark, what is he doing? Shredden, is he? Is he warming up his scale? I talked to him on the phone and I hear, I'm like, are you playing and talking at the same, yeah, I'm like, what the fuck are you doing? So you liked the Eddie version of the, the 5W Venom song? Yeah, they were great. Wow. Yeah. They were great, man. No matter what Eddie does, it was always great, man. I mean, my favorite leeway record is Open Mouth Kiss. Respect. It's the one that everybody was like, and I just saw them mature and I saw them doing something different and, and, and, and Eddie's being of something and transitioning into something else that had a little bit more soul and feel. I'm like, yo, this is great. This is right up the alley. I didn't see anything going off about that. I'm like, they're growing up. You know, I thought a while of playing music, you don't, you're not just like a hard-core kid. You become a musician, bro. Yeah, of course. And you have passion, love all the shit. You might want to try the shit out. And, you know, so I, I, that Open Mouth Kiss, I thought was great. And I thought, I didn't get the respect that it should have gotten, that it should have gotten, you know, but I thought it was a great record, man. And it's a hard record to hear. Eddie passed, you know, and after Saad passed, I was listening to the album and I couldn't sit through it. Yeah. It was rough. His lyrics and I can hear the pain. Yeah. Yeah. Then we lost Puerto Rican Mike, you know, it's like, what the fuck, you know? It's like, what's left? There's, there's never really left in New York anymore, you know? But the art that you guys make and you leave for us to discover, it keeps, it keeps your memories alive. Well, yeah, that's why, you know, Saad told me years before anything, he was, it was weird that he said it like that to you, because you're no matter what happens. He said, no matter what happens, like, what do you mean, no matter what happens, you know? He goes, no matter what happens, you got to keep Marora going. It's like, you know, it's like, it's like a gang, you know, we got to keep the gang going. I'm like, all right. I don't know what the fuck you mean by no matter what happens, and then, you know, shit happens. Marauder toured Europe at least one time with Kickback. Oh yeah, like my brother. You have any fond memories from those tourists? Because one of my favorite little clips of all time is Stephen getting on stage and doing the end of Mass The Killer, and then Saad stage dives, and then you're skanking. Well, you know what, the fucking, the dude from Regulator, he was Saad? Regulate? I was Spanish kid. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Sebastian. He was like, he showed me that video, and he goes, yo, this is like the, he was just going off on that. It's one of the coolest things. And I'm like, I don't even fucking know what you're talking about. Then he showed it to me. I'm like, oh, I don't even know that show. Like I was pretty drunk on that fucking stage, man. We weren't supposed to headline that show. Who was? Murphy's Law. Oh, wow. And I was drinking, and I figured, we're going to go on soon, so I'm not going to get too classy, you know? You know, we ended up going on last, and I was fucking drunk up there, bro, but it was the best show we had in class. May's been great, video. One of the coolest things I've ever seen. Any other fond tour memories from early Marauder or with Saad? Like Master Killer Europe tour, what's that like? Well, I mean, the first tour, I mean, bro, we first, we were like rock stars. I mean, we played with this band called the Bears and Uncles. They're not a metal band, anything like a German rock and roll band. They have their issues, you know? They had their war with another band called Toten Hosen, that punk band. One's like, you know, claiming to be the PC one, the other one, they say they're the right-wing one, but I mean, they had that, I don't know much about them guys, you know? They have a band, I know that they had issues with the singer, because the singer, you see it, you walk, and they're not trying to promote that imagery, they don't want that imagery. I mean, listen, bro, I don't blame people for being products of their environment, bro. And if that was what's going on back then in the days in the streets, and you were street kids, and that's what, I mean, we were no better, you know? Just because we were black and Latino, we weren't Nazis, but we weren't letting white people live in peace in the neighborhood like that, you know? It was really rough, you know? If you were driving by and got lost in the neighborhood, it could have been bad, you know? We could have made life hell, but if you were white and you lived in the neighborhood, you were one of us. You were treated no different, and you were getting no proof, you were nothing, and you were getting treated just like everybody else in the hood. You were just seeing like anybody else, you know? You're not financial bracket range, you're one of us, bro. You fucked. You didn't like that. When did you audition for Civil Terror? That was in, wow. 97, 98-ish or something? 99, whatever Max left you. Yeah, it was 99. It was definitely 99. That was weird because I knew nothing of that. I was, you liked them, right? Yeah, yeah, I was a big fan of them and stuff like that, and they were doing their whole MTV thing, and back then I was doing my, you know, with this girl and doing the kickboxing thing and the bike message, you know? Well, not the bike, I was riding a bike weed, but delivering weed, whatever. But I would go to places and I wasn't really hanging out much, but I always made appearances at clubs, at shows, and people were yelling stuff at me about Sampatoria. Like, oh, where's Sampatoria? I'm like, fuck you, fuck you, I'm a roller, motherfucker. You know, I was doing Oninho at that time, you know? And, you know, I mean, people come up to me saying, yo, what's up with you? I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about? So eventually they got back to the dudes in Sampatoria, they might even have said something in Brazil to them, so they contact Borevoi. You remember Borevoi for Century Media, he used to be an A&R guy for Century Media, Borevoi. He called me and put me on the three way with Andres. Now, I mean, I was a fan of Sampatoria before they were even really famous, and nobody knew who they were over there, so like a couple years later people, you know, dropped in and they knew who they were. I knew this girl who brought them for the first time here. And I met them for the first time, you know, when they came, you know, when they came. And it was David Cutler, my boy. They put me and this kid, David, on all the shows. I even saved Max at a Sampatoria and Merciful Face show in Roseland, I think they played in Manhattan, yeah, because, you know, Max was fucking drunk as shit. He's walking through a car bumping into it, then he bumps into my old skinhead crew, Sunset Skins. And why did he do that for like, my crew was rough, man. It was rough if you was a metalhead and, you know, and the only thing that saved Max, I'd say, yo, he's Brazilian, but he's Latino, and they're like, oh, where? I'm like, he sings in that band. They're like, okay. Because he bumped into one of the twins and they turned around like, what the fuck? And then I saw all the rest of the dudes get up like, you know, they all look like a bunch of meerkats, you know, in some danger. They all start looking in one direction. And I was like, hold up. I was like, yo, chill, chill. Like, yo, he's Latino, bro. He's like, all right, they gave him a pass. And you know, he kept on running through the club ball, drunk and obligerant, like, ah, they're gonna mess with fool himself or whatever. He was enjoying himself. Yeah, exactly. But, um. So they got you on a three-way call and invited you to try out. They invited, well, I, um, he told me he didn't remember me like, yeah, I barely knew him. I'm like, oh, damn, the first motherfucker you met. You kind of was like, the skinhead dude, you don't remember? Anyway. So, yeah, I flew out there. I did the 10 days. Things were going actually really well. Things were going really well. I thought, I thought, I thought I had it in the bag. You know, people showing up, the two or three rehearsals and more people there. I wrote lyrics to that whole fucking, fucking recated with whatever the fuck. And um, things are going well. And I'm hanging out with Max and the guys and we're talking and they're saying, you get into a conversation and he says, you know, you sound, no, not Max. Sorry. Igor. What's his name? The guitar. Andreas. Yeah, Andreas. Andreas goes, you know, you sound like Phil. I'm like, Phil. He goes, yeah, Phil and Sam though. I'm like, bro, we don't really sound like each other. I mean, you know, and I've said, if anybody sounds like anybody, he sounds like me. I don't sound like him. He's in my house. I was born here. I'm not the visitor coming into here. You know, I didn't discover that I was born in this motherfucking music. You know what I'm saying? Like, I came up from the fuck, of course, he ain't into this shit. You know what I'm saying? Like I wasn't a hair metal guy, you know, and I wasn't a fucking, you know, a techno or a new wave guy in the sky. You know, I was, I came from that. And then I've heard a lot of rumors about him being a little like obnoxious and this and that. And, you know, I didn't want to say much, but I just basically said, I said, yo, he sounds like if anybody sounds like anybody sounds like me. This is my scene. And I, you know, and I heard about how he is and shit. Like, if you ever disrespect me, I said, I said, I don't give a fuck how big he is. I check him. I gotta check him. You know, man, gonna disrespect another man. And if you consider yourself a man, yeah, nobody disrespect you, especially on some music shit. Like, believe me, we ain't even on some street shit. I would have been stabbed, you know, but now, but all I would say was, you know, if you ever disrespect me because I've heard shit, you know, I'd check him. And they stayed there like, you know, what we're looking for. You almost cried in his face. Like I felt, yeah, I couldn't even deal with it that night. Like I had to stay in this lady's house that they knew. And I was just like, I don't know what to do with myself. Like I felt like I fucked up and I didn't do anything wrong. And um, and have you ever faced rejection like that? Artistically, ever? No, no, really. I've always been a pretty artistic person with drawing and art and stuff. And it's always one way with me. Like I never with, even when I was a kid and when I went to Puerto Rico for the first time and I knew graffiti and break dancing, I taught them break dance. I didn't want nothing from them. I taught them. And then I would, you know, people make trucker hats with graffiti on it. I was doing that in 80, 81. I was doing graffiti pieces. There used to be a cartoon called the Snorks, you know, the little twos. And I used to draw Snork characters, like graffiti Snork characters and make trucker hats with graffiti for kids and just give them away. I buy all these pens and stuff. You know, my father buy me shit. And I was never really, I never really wanted anything for my artistic ability. I just wanted to always make people happy. You know, like, you like it? Shit. You know, if you don't got nothing, I got a dollar. And it's the only dollar I got, but you ain't got shit. I give you my fucking dollar. Yeah, you ain't got nothing. Fuck it. Fuck it. Take it. You know, I'll get another one. Right. You know? But this is the first time. But this is like the first time. I mean, I'm being rejected by girls. That was nothing, you know, like, fuck, you know, I mean. But that's over with. We got two options, you know, when we got 15 and Pometer. But that was the first time, you know, and it really fucked me up, came back to New York and I struggled with it. That's where all my downfall came from. You know, the stuff that I used to deal that, you know, that I sat home doing, I was miserable, depressed. I thought that that was my only opportunity in life to become somebody. And I ruined it. And I don't even know what I did. And Lou, sick of it all, Lou, called me up one time, remember telling me that, you know, I know the real reason why they, why they didn't pick you. Because I know they told you what we're looking for, but it was because the whole film, film sound no thing. I'm like, I mean, really? And like, I mean, did they ever really play with Pantera after that? I never saw them play with Pantera again. Like they didn't do anything. They went in cross path. And I didn't do anything that. I mean, why would you, why would I, it's like they kind of, it's almost like they're trying to unmask, un, un, take away my, my masculinity. Like if a man disrespects you, I got to let him know. You know, like it's nothing, it's nothing abnormal about that. But can you see? I'm not saying that I'm going to beat them up. I'm just letting them know. So yo, bro, you're not going to, because in order to stop that, so you got to knit that shit right in the butt. Sure. So you were saying like, oh, Phil, I don't really sound like him, but I've heard he's annoying if they ever, that was ever an issue with me though. I would let him know. Yeah. I wasn't really. But you can, do you look back and see Andreas maybe just being like, oh, you sound, do you think he meant it in a derogatory way? No, no, no, I think he was just trying to be cool. You know, they nice guys. And, but I think my personality was too much for them. And I was calm there and I didn't do anything. I just hung out, just sat in the cut, you know, laid back. I mean, they didn't, they didn't see me in my, in my wildness at all. You know, so I don't know why they thought that was a threat to them. Yeah. I mean, you would want somebody like with my energy in upfront, you know? Yeah, I'm sorry. You know, I thought Derek is a good dude and Derek, but he just didn't possess that. And I saw when Sepertura came to New York for the first time with him, people were leaving after every song. And you, I'll get smaller and smaller. You know, I mean, they didn't sound bad. It just, just wasn't like that, you know? Yeah. It was just, it was very, just still, you know, kind of Derek just tap in his foot. I'm like, me tap in your feet with don't fucking dress like that. I'm swimming. What the fuck are you doing? I'll be doing like an HR, you know what I'm saying? But you know, and which is weird for me because you out there screaming, man, you know, how do you not want to go crazy? You know, I mean, if I'm yelling, my body's got to go with it. If my mind's going out of control, my body and my mouth, they all three are moving at the same time, you know? Sure. Yeah, I can. But I would figure if you're a front man, you would, you wouldn't need some type of stage presence. You know, there's a lot of great people up there who sing and stuff. A lot of great singers up there and they're great. They do, but you're still playing live. You're not recording or doing demos, bro. You got to do a little more for these kids. At least Lee was used to fucking do flip. Oh, he was one of a kind. You know, I mean, I used to jump over drums and do some sort of flex. I'm not saying you got to do that. Look at Jinji from fucking absolution. He was a fucking nut. He was another HR flying doing fucking spin. I mean, I mean, everybody had their own way. You know, look at Paul Berra. He was an acrobatic. He can chill, but he had the swag. But he had that person with the crowd. Oh, you had the swag. I got the swag. He had that. He was like cut off of that. He was commanding. He was commanding. Everybody had their own fucking thing. And which has changed because, you know, in the 80s, you know, being a frontman, your job was to be annoying and to have big confrontational with the crowd. There was a lot of that. And it was all part of the show, you know? Like, yeah, fuck you. Yeah. Mima, they were there for you anyway, you know? But now you can't even do that. Motherfuckers go home crying. They can call fucking the cops on you. They associate like, oh, fuck. No, but, um. How soon after this? Because I don't actually know. Was the rag-bed demo. That would have been 2005, four or five. So a bit later. That was after Blutality, I think. It was. That was, yeah, after Blutality. OK, we can. We need to get that. Let's talk Blutality. Wow. Who was on that one? Man, Saab is not on that record. What was that like to do something with Marauder without him for the first time? Saab was, um, well, just me and Anthony at that time. Actually, wait a minute. You said Blutality? That's with all, man. Yeah, OK, so that was rough, man. We went in there. We. No warning, great song. Yeah, man. But 41 shots, great song. Agreed. We were unprepared. Sure. OK. We were unprepared. Anthony had like four songs that were 80% done, like 90% done. And we had two other songs that were like shaky. And then since you made it, he had to say, yo, you got to go record this, right? And we're like, oh, shit. We didn't write anything. So we took like one week off the recording where we supposed to be there. And we took it just for writing. And Billy Milano, I think, helped out a lot because we were impressed with time. But it didn't, you know, it was. I'm going to say 75, 80% Marauder was the help of Billy. OK. And it was good to have him there because he did help us. But there could have been a lot more to that record. Yeah. The songs seemed like they weren't really finished. Yeah. And Anthony rushed through them. And it was a very weird vibe, you know, Saab showed up to the studio. And because he didn't practice any of the songs, he wasn't hanging out and showing up to the braille. Because he wanted to do with the record. And he said, I'm going to go and bounce. And it was strange doing that record. You know, I mean, it was a weird time. Everybody was in a weird situation. Yeah. I think Anthony might have been like getting deeper into shit. Yeah. And I'm in which I don't think anybody was doing really good at that time. But we made the record happen. But I don't think that record should have happened. OK. Interesting. I think it's not that, you know, I think it's. You just needed more time. You needed to cook more. Needed more time. We needed to fix some of the ends. Maybe needed Saab. Yeah. Part of it, you know. It definitely did need Saab. And it was just, you know what? We lost track of time. We weren't really, we would be irresponsible. And we lost track of time. And we didn't prepare for the record. OK. And we made what we had work. And how do you look back at it now? I barely listen to that record. No warning. Good. Good song. It's a good song. But I, you know, I. 41 shots. Good song. It's a good song. It's a good song. But I feel like I don't really like the production wise. It's too metallic. There's an interesting thing. I've noticed that. It's done digital. There's a lot of, almost every other song starts with a. Bum-ba-dum-da-da. Bum-ba-dum-da-da. Bum-ba-dum-da-da. There's a lot of to start the song, which is definitely like a OK, we got it. We're writing it in the studio as we go. Which is also, find my way. Dum-ba-dum-da-da-da. Yeah, but that. I'm just saying. We started to do it differently. We started to do it with, I think if we did it different at Detroit, it was. We added like an extra measure on guitar in the beginning. So it's just guitar. And then you come in. And then. Cool. So I think, yeah, I think we started. But I don't think we did that yesterday. No, you didn't. No, we definitely did that yesterday. Great record. Yeah, how do you look back at 5W Venom? It's such a complicated timeline. Yeah. It was a whole other band for a little while. You were out of the band. How do you look back at it now? That was the demo, right? Yeah. I love that record. I wish we could redo that, man. You finally did Final War. What was that like? Bringing Final War back. And the cover. Yeah, and the cover. Final War. Well, Final War was supposed to be in. We were going to do it for the first record. But they were stuck on this idea. We're like, we're going to have a 10. It can't be an odd number. Or I'm like, all right, whatever. I mean, I guess they wanted to lay it out. Nice five songs. Five songs. I'm like, which whatever. Doesn't really matter anymore, that shit. But I didn't make the first record. So I guess as you put it on, they put it on. And it was a nice thing to have in the tank for that. Now, this song is written by Chris. Karate Chris. Karate Chris wrote. The guy who created All Out War. What are your thoughts on every Marauder shirt from 1991 to maybe 99 selling for $500 or more now? Roodle, right? It's crazy, right? Yo, I got a whole bunch of old shirts, man. Like. I got here with a $3,200 plumbing bill. Oh, sorry. Is that one? That's you. Oh, that's me. OK, sorry. No, you're good. He's got $3,200 plumbing bill. We got old shirts. I see three cameras. You can send it to me first, and then we'll figure something out. We'll figure something out. But wow, I made some of them. Some of them are cool, man. They were all cool. Yeah. All the mass killer era shit is crazy. Well, somebody, this was, and this was long ago. This is long ago. Somebody saw this. Actually, the last album, the lineup, Darian, they're playing the band. He said that the only shirt that had my face on the back was a green. Like the green fear of sin. And it was a misprint because that fear, no sin. Oh, wow. It was supposed to be fear of sin. You said the only shirt that had your face on? Yes. I got tons of shirt with your face on. Really? Oh, yeah. All the master, the master killer. With the picture. With the picture, you guys? Oh, no. But there was the only one that had me with a microphone. Oh, with a microphone? Yeah. Yeah. I liked it. The rest of the film picture. You know, it was all. And he said, yo, bro, that's who was going for like four fucking hun- and that was back in a day. No, that's a $1,000 shirt. It's crazy, man. Wow. What the fuck? I know. Harsely our fault. Yeah, sorry. That's good. Yeah. That's on me. So, brutality is done. You're disappointed in it. Ragman is right around the corner. Tell us about making this Ragman record. That was fun. Yeah. It was actually pretty cool. I love the Sepertura. How there's a song on there that was one of those songs that I couldn't sing either. The obstacle song. Oh, yeah. That song was all about my life. And it was just letting people know that like, because you know, it's that whole when kids meet you, it's like you're the younger generation. You know what I mean? I kind of felt like people thought that we were living this amazing life. Because I'm like, when I come back home from the tour, I got to go work. And I got the same part that everybody else. Yeah. It's probably even worse for us. Because we went and did all this great shit, and now we got to come back to this bullshit reality. And I'm like, we bleed just as much as anybody else. And that song was about like, yo, I go through daily suffering. You don't understand? Just because you think you see us on stage and doing all this shit. Like once we get off, we're back and grinding and doing. We're back with everybody else. 100%. Like just because we do music doesn't mean like our lives have gotten better. You know, it's gotten more fun. And we do a job that people, I mean, not for nothing, man. Being a rocket science is not fuck all that bullshit. Do what we do. Nobody gets to your belt. No schooling, no nothing. This is all from the heart. And we reach more people, and we do for more than bro. Than the mainstream world does. It's crazy. And I didn't realize that two years and years and years later, man. You know, I'm like, wow, what the fuck? And then when my son started doing music, I'm like, holy shit. You know, he's like, this is nuts. You know, it really changed my life, man. It was for the best and for the worst. But this is a scene where we're taught to be warriors, man. You don't fall in a scene and stay down. Yeah. And you got us. You got all of us. I tell all these kids, even if you don't know us, and you love the band, and you don't know us, and you're having some issues, hit me up, bro. Got social media. Hit me up so you know who I want to talk to. How about me, bro? Ain't nothing you want to tell me that I haven't heard, bro. You know? That's what it's all about. On the Ragman record, there's a song called It's My World or My World. That's my fucking hip hop song. That song is so good. It's so good. Yeah, thank you, brother. I remember it was on the demo too, and I just remember it fucking my brain up. I loved it. I loved it. But the Sepultura cover. Yeah, that's you finishing the story. Exactly. Because I remember when I heard it, we had heard the rumors. Oh, yeah, he tried out for Sepultura. And I went in there with a blown voice. Because we shouldn't have rehearsed for five, six hours before that. Yes, I went in there with a hoarse voice. And I was kind of bummed out. I'm like, yo, I really want to do this good, man. I'm already suffering from the throat root. But I mean, it worked out. It is what it is. I'm not going to complain about it. It shit happens for a reason. But I mean, it was a good record. It was a cool record, man. Obstacles was one of those songs that I couldn't sing live. Had to turn my back to the crowd. He had to choke up on the lyrics of a deep. And it's probably one of the deepest shit I ever wrote. And really personal and stuff like that. I try not to reflect my life. I try to talk in general and have kids take the song for what they ever fucking want it for. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And use it for what you want to do and what you want to represent. But that song, I kind of got a little personal. Yeah, that's fair. After Ragnan, you did a demo for a new band called God as I. Because it was not technically God as I wasn't Marauder first. It was God as I first. I had that music on here. It's good. It was on Myspace. I remember downloading it. Oh, shit. OK. And then shortly it was different. Shortly after that, Marauder would put the song until up on Myspace. It was the first Marauder song post-blutality. I love that. I remember sitting with my brother putting it on and being like, yo, there's new Marauder. This is crazy. Yeah, that's right. It was great. It's my favorite record. Really? Really? Yeah. Because not not not well, only because. Were you more involved? Exactly. Yeah. It was I was more involved and I was able to sing it the way I wanted to sing it. Gotcha. You know, I was using my voice like what I always wanted to do on the other records, you know, all because of circumstances, things never really worked out. But things fell into place on that record. Yeah. We were in the right place. We were in the right state of mind. We were like, and it worked out. And who played on it? Darian. Um, Pollock. Darian Pollock. Um, he's a tech now for machine head. Oh, cool. Guitar. Is he the one shredding? Yeah. And then we had to do Dave. Fucks, I forgot his last name. Shit. Dave also on the guitar. Pretty dope. He was pretty cool dude too. Um, they were at Drew Schmurden on bass. I remember Drew. Drew and um, drums was Bobby Blood. Yeah, first blood. I think one of the fucking best drummers I've ever had. My three top drummers in Barrauda was um, I'm gonna say Bobby Blood. Uh, Pocky. Yeah, that's a crazy one. And, yeah. Goat. Who was Goat? Goat. Goat played with us for a while too. Goat. He used to play in Burpees Lloyd. Goat. Oh my God. Eric. Oh wow. Eric was good. Wow, that's fucking awesome. When did God's Is Eye come out? 2000? I mean, I think it formally came out in 2008 or 2009. Yeah. But you announced it on MySpace, I vividly remember this. You announced it, it was originally called Gangsta. That was the original title for the album. You announced it in a MySpace bulletin. You said yo, probably. Noomur Otter out soon, it's called Gangsta. Until out now, then you put up Ratcatcher. And then you put up, uh, what's the other one? Built on Blood. Yeah. Those were the first three singles. And I think they're really... Really meddling that record. Yeah, very meddling. But I remember hearing the Built on Blood breakdown of Dan Lee. They've done it. They've resurrected Marauder. But until I'll never forget that feeling, because that was the first Marauder record that came out while I was like a cognizant being. Right, right, right. Like, I remember, I was very actively playing music and it was like, okay, MasterCader's my favorite thing ever. And this band just put out this song and it's unbelievable. Tell me a little bit more about God as I, aka Gangsta, and putting that together. Do you feel... So that's your favorite Marauder record today? Yeah. You know, even when we demoed those songs, all those three songs when it came out together, I was like really involved in that, bro. I went upstate. I was there, I mean, they had a house. They had a tiny little miniature house, man. It's like a little apartment upstate and a little tiny house. It's so cool. I'm like, yo, this is awesome. But he had a studio in there. And, bro, I just went over every riff. I mean, he wrote most of the stuff. And I actually helped with a lot of the arrangements of the songs because he was hearing, you know, like, yo, I got a dope riff for a chorus. And I'm like, no, that's a verse. I can see a verse on that. Yeah, I can see myself singing a verse. We did a lot of, but we did go over every motherfucking song and every fucking part. And I was just like, you know, I wanted to have input as a singer, as a musician, but I didn't want to get in the way of the process. But I hear shit and I hum something out. And they're like, oh, we're like this. You know, and so I've been humming a lot. I got a whole... Notes app? Yeah. I got a whole fucking bunch of hums of riffs. Wow. That's history. So, probably gonna... I got one that's really good. The guys like it. They're like, yo, I hum this. And they're like, yo, I like that. So they're probably gonna use it. It's more like a chorus part. Around this time. But we're putting shit together. Around this time when you're touring on the record, you played somewhere in central Illinois. It wasn't in Chicago. I live in Chicago. But it was somewhere in central Illinois. And I drove there. I walked in. You guys were already playing. I was a little late. You were playing... You were doing the thing where you go from Mastery and a Master Killer into Time Ants, right? Right away. I'm walking in right at that point. There's one person mashing. One dude at this time. And I walk in. I immediately start mashing. Me and this... It's a huge fucking room. Me and this one guy clobber each other. Just smack dabbing and I look and it's my best friend, the singer of my band. James from Harbors Way. We're the only two guys and we both just are on the... Like a chorus? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's a fond memory I have of this era. And I remember you playing... Do you remember playing also at this time? It was 2009. You played the subterranean in Chicago JJ's Chromags Death Threat Marauder Convicted in a band called Left Hand Path Small Room Crazy Yes, yes, I remember that one. That was like the first real proper time seeing Marauder. And that was a very, very fond memory. Very sweaty show. Do you have a favorite show you played of all time? A one that comes to mind? I have. I'm gonna say the Dynamo Fist. The very first time Marauder played the Dynamo Fist. How many people were watching? That was like a 180,000 type of fucking thing. It was like... It was crazy from what I heard. It was never that big ever again after that. But it was... I don't know, it was a ridiculous amount of people. And that was the very first time. Because we did do a festival right before that. I mean, it was a very... It was a very... It was a very... It was a very... It was a very... It was a very... It was like a little Coliseum. But it wasn't our show. It was their show. And they were their crowd. And they're not really... It's like 80% of them are not really hardcore kids. Some maybe less. But yeah, I would have to say the Dynamo. Because it was my very first time really seeing it on a big level. I mean, we did the Milwaukee Metal Festival. That was nothing compared to... That's the doors. That was like... Holy shit. The first time I'm like... You'll probably know. There's a video of them playing, I think, Wetlands. And Minus also sings. Yeah, the one you both sing. That was Wetlands, why I love that club, man. I used to work there. You do one of the best moves where Minus doesn't sing and you use both mics. You just use two mics. That's the coolest. Wasn't Mike McGyver on bass playing on that stage? I couldn't tell you, I don't know. I think Mike McGyver from Can Do was on bass. Shit, man. How often does Minus jump up with you and sing songs? We don't keep in touch as much. We haven't seen each other in a long time. I don't know where he's at right now. We haven't spoken a while. People grew apart. At the end of the day, I never had any hard feelings for him. Never did. Never will. There's a lot of in-between people, of course, of a separation. And I am mad at him for being a dude from my school, from my generation, being one of us, letting them dictate that shit. You know? We was around before these motherfuckers. We put in the work for these motherfuckers to stick out their chests. So, you know, other than that, I'm just telling them, come home, bro. Sure. We don't need those motherfuckers. He didn't need them, but whatever. I was born the same year Marauder started. Isn't that funny to think about? Don't ever say anything. But, you know, I'm out here every week singing the gospel of the band. I love the band so much. I love Master Coach so much. I love it all. I know you guys. You don't have any people from all around the world if I get to say that. You know, the dudes, I'm like, I know. I know. We're your guys. I gotta tell you. I think you're my number one supporter and fan, brother. For everything you have done, and are doing and continue to do. You know, so... We love them. We're happy to do it. I gotta tell you, in high school, I forgot this. I got a burn CD from a friend. I was already in hardcore. I think Ragnar was already out at this time. I was already aware of stuff and I was on the bridge and I bored and everything. Somebody gave me a burn CD and there were two records on it. One was Age of Quarrel and one was Master Killer. He was right what I was looking for. Master Killer at the time was too metal for me. I didn't get it. One year later, put it on again. Ever since. And then discovering that on Five Deadly Bedlam's you cover like my own. And then finding out that Paris helped was the producer. I was friends with Harley and John for years. I'm still friends with both of them. Unfortunately, shit happened between them. I think it never did. Because I think today, one of the biggest shows, if those two motherfuckers jumped on stage together, that would be the biggest fucking pay there in their life. And it would be a fucking groundbreaking and it would make history. Yeah, of course. I've seen bands that hate each other go up on stage. They come separately. Get up and stage play together and you would never know. They get through it. Later. I wish they would do that. I just heard Harley sing some of the old songs. Yeah, he did at a hard time. Yeah, that sounded great. Harley and John, they're both good at what they do. And Harley was always a very soulful person. He had a lot of soul. I mean, I played in fucking the new show. He was one of my favorite bass players not because of my boy, Ben. He's just one of those entertainers. I fucking love his whole style and persona. But that band did a lot for me. Them and the Bad Brains. And my metal background, I was always trying to have that medium. But I also got to be me because my voice is me. But I always try to keep some of that bad brains and Chromag, Soul, and Mark Hor. For persona and aggression with my metal technique and range and all that shit. So I try to put both worlds into it. That's why we kind of have both growls. How do you look back at the last 34 years of the band and just where you are now? How does that make you feel? Just thinking about that. How far you've come? You know, I've had mixed emotions throughout the years because of personal reasons and I always felt like the band. But I mean, you know, fuck all that. Like I said before, things happen for a reason. And I can't I can't look back on life with regrets. It's not healthy for anybody. But I think, I don't know, bro, the last 30, 40 years of my life, I have a life. I have a life. I grew up, I didn't know what I was going to do. This shit fell in my hands. I didn't ask for it. I fell in my hands. But I'm not a I grew up poor, not with much. So whatever I had, I took care of it. So if you gave me something, I run with it and take care of it as long as I can. I'm an artist. I've artwork that I've done on napkins at a restaurant. And I still have them. It's these little things that mean a lot to me. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, it's just pretty much. I'm just a sob asking you to keep Marauder alive. Yeah, that burns in my head every day. That burns in my head every day. Every day. And I just wish she was here with me to carry that torch. I carry the torch. The band's gone. There's no Vinny, there's no Anthony. I keep in touch with Rick Lopez. But, man, it sucks, man, that I'm all the way down this path. And shit happens, man. I wish Anthony and Vinny were still here. And even Rick, you know. But it is what it is. Everybody finds their own path in life. Yeah. And you go. But I'm still cool with them. I mean, I'm still cool. I don't have no desire to talk to Vinny. I just wish him the best. I wish even my enemies I wish him the best. If there's a motherfucker out there that I gotta knuckle up with, I wish you the best. And I want you always to be 100% because the day we meet, you have no excuses. I want you to be on point. I'm gonna be. But I have no choice. The way the world is going, I gotta be on point. For anything. I walk out these kids in the street today, outside of the hardcore scene. I still live in the hood. And I can't... No matter how well I do, I can never really leave the hood. I'm finding myself leaving now because of the winter and all that shit. But other than that, I'm a New York dude. I'm always gonna be a New York dude. You said you were a guy from the block, a guy from the street before you were... You got Jenny from the block? I got a boy from the block. Ladies love Cool J. I wish I would've run into Jenny when she was on the block. So just to... Let's wrap this up here. We're gonna ask you something we ask everybody. And I'm really curious what your answers are. Your top four hardcore records of all time. Top four. Hardcore. I'm gonna say... Wow. Man, because there's so many. And I don't want to put nobody above anybody and leave anybody out. But guys, I gotta pick four. We're making. It's not his fault. I gotta say, the Bad Brings Rock for Light Love it. Definitely Age of Crawl, Lacroix Mags. Oh, having a rough time with these next ones. I just so many I want to mention. Even though I don't even speak to the dude, but that's your top record, man. Really... Just can't hate enough? Yes. That one record was just... It brought out my moment on metal side. Even though there's a hardcore band, but they had that Celtic Fraw sound. That Celtic Fraw sound. Blake, he's from Stake. Blake was the man, bro. I'm a good friend of mine. I haven't seen him in years and he's still around apparently. He's still doing good. So bless him, man. Bad Brings, Crawl Mags, Sheer Terra, and wow, this is gonna be rough, man. You got it. Tore is the hardest one, but you got it. It's a toss up, man. Shit. Okay. You know what? I'm not gonna even say them because they only put out one record. They didn't really get that big, but the very inspiration, I love the record, but I'm not gonna say it's a plus for my blood and sweat and tears, because I'm on that record. Sick of it all. You're on it? I'm on the record. You're in the background? No, I'm on the cover. I'm on the cover with the seven-year-old. So I got me, minus. A whole bunch of fucking people. Kevin Bulldozer's on that cover. Wow, man. A lot of people on that cover that people don't know. Bro, I could swear that Sergio is on that cover, too. Interesting. Sergio from Deftones. He used to be in Quick Sand. Really? I could swear, he's with a shirt like this. Sorry. The collector lineup on there. There's so many, I love, and you know what, that record was great and Lou deserves more than what he gets in life. And he definitely don't deserve what he's going through right now. Right. Shout out to Lou. He was always a good dude to me. He was always a good friend and him and his brother, the host, to give it all crew. We just had Craig on, it was unbelievable. It's a great episode. This was also a great episode. Jorge, we cannot thank you enough. Thank you, man. I appreciate you guys. If there's any closing remarks, I'd like to leave the hard-law world with here's your time. Hey, man, I know times are rough, man. Never doubt yourself. Don't be your worst enemy, man. Just live life. Be free. Fuck the distractions. Do what pleases you. Live your life. You're only going to get one chance, brother. Peace. Well said. Bye, everybody. See you next week. This episode is brought to you by Mad Vintage. Thank you.