Trump Thinks He’s Jesus. Iran Blockade Update. Ukrainian Robots Take a Battlefield. w/ Michael Steele.

When those of us like me were saying, stop, this is this road does not it's not even a dead end people. It is a fucking cliff in which the American economy, American culture, American ingenuity and enterprise and freedom go off the edge. Welcome to independent Americans. Welcome to episode 492. I am your host, Paul Reikoff. It is Tuesday, April 14th. And I'm coming to you from New York City, USA and the weather is hot, very hot. It is 82 and sunny, going up to 85 and tomorrow 86 in April. Which is nice, but not normal, not at all, but hot. And today's show is hot. Today's guest is hot. And today's artist of the day is hot. It is one of the hottest of all time, the Wu Tang Clan, Wu Tang, because they just made the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame absolutely well deserved. And for some reason, you're young or old or living on Mars and you don't know who Wu Tang Clan is. Wu Tang Clan, one of the greatest artists of all time, greatest hip hop artists of all time, cash rules, everything around me, cream might be appropriate specifically for this time and era and this Trump administration. Of course, Method Man, Protect Your Neck, Wu Tang Clan, A Nothing to Fuck With and a lot of other great hits. When I worked at IAVA, I used to interview a lot of people to join our team. And as my colleagues there remember, I had a question that I asked of everybody in the interview process. It was called the Wu Tang question. I would ask every single potential colleague, who is your favorite member of the Wu Tang Clan? And why? And folks might answer, they might dodge it. And it was an important thing. It was an honesty question, because I would say to them, do you like the Wu Tang Clan? And they would say, yeah. And I would say, who's your favorite member? And some folks would be like, uh, which told me that they were lying. And then there was another question about whether or not they felt they could be candid for the folks who did know the Wu Tang Clan. I'd say, who's your favorite member? Most people's favorite member is Old Dirty Bastard. But they are in an interview for a job and they have to think to themselves. And you see the brains regulating and saying, should I say Old Dirty Bastard in an interview? Or should I say ODB? But it was an insight into who that person was, if they could be candid, if they could be honest, and if they had a good appreciation for great music. My favorite member of the Wu Tang Clan is and always will be Method Man, M-E-T-H-O-D Man, who I invite to come on the show at any time. Who is your favorite member of the Wu Tang Clan? Write a review, post in our comments, hit us up on social. Let me know. I'd love to know who your favorite member of the Wu Tang Clan is. I would love all the living members of the Wu Tang Clan to be on the show, Old Dirty Bastard, rest in peace. But more later in the show on Wu Tang and the other new Hall of Fame inductees, there are some good ones this year. And I'm going to bring it to you like the Wu Tang Clan always did and does, and bring you the five eyes that I bring you in every single episode. Independence, integrity, information, inspiration, and impact. And our guest today is going to bring that and then some. He is a guest Hall of Famer for this show. It's the great Michael Steele. He's the co-anchor now of MSNOW's The Weeknd, the Weeknight, sorry, Weeknights at 7 p.m. Eastern. He's the former Lieutenant Governor of Maryland, the former chairman of the Republican National Committee. He used to lead the entire Republican Party and was the first African-American leader to hold that office. He was also a fencer in college. And we're going to talk about fencing in college and in sports and in politics and much more. But first, there are some urgent issues and stories that you need to know about. You need to use your best fencing skills to slice through them. Some hot ones on this hot Saturday to help you stay vigilant. All right, speaking of hot, the weather here in New York is hot, but this show has been pretty hot. So I want to thank all of you who are listening, who are watching for helping make that happen, for continuing to stoke the fire around our independent media, political and social movement. We are now number 15 on the Apple Podcast News Charts. That's, I think, the highest we've ever been. That's a really big deal. And we just passed Ben Shapiro. We're at number 15. That means we've got Candace, Megan Kelly, Tucker Carlson on the right, Midas, Tim Miller, Tim Miller and Bullwalk on the left. For those folks, we're coming for you. They're still ahead of me and I'm coming for them. And there's the raging moderates, Scott Calloway and Jessica Tarloff. We are gaining on you and we are coming because we are hitting a unique and powerful mark. People want independence. They also want news, culture, sports, and especially right now, national security. And that is coming in hot. So let's get after it and hit on our Top Topic. All right. Top Topic for today. That kind of transcends everything else. Trump thinks he's Jesus. Yes, really. Coming off his fight with the Pope. He posted a picture of himself as Jesus. But now he's trying to explain it away in a way that's very unJesus-like. And check this shit out. Mr. President, did you post that picture of yourself that didn't get as surprised? Well, it wasn't a picture. It was me. I did post it and I thought it was me as a doctor. And it had to do with Red Cross as a Red Cross worker there, which we support. And only the fake news could come up with that one. So I had, I just heard about it. And I said, how did they come up with that? It's supposed to be me as a doctor making people better. And I do make people better and make people a lot better. So that's Trump outside the White House with a DoorDash grandma, a lady that was there to deliver DoorDash for him, McDonald's, of course, to the White House. It was this little stunt to talk about tipping for delivery folks. And the press corps was there and started to ask Trump about this. And this poor woman in her DoorDash grandma t-shirt is just standing there next to Trump as he asked to answer questions about posting pictures of himself as Jesus Christ. She also, at some point, he was asked about women and men and trans people in sports. And he asked her what she thought and she said, no comment. So props to whoever that lady is for holding the line and for dealing with what is a very bizarre and hot situation. But holy shit, the response from Trump. Holy bullshit. I mean, President Mayhem is obviously at it again. And he pulled this poor DoorDash grandma into it because nothing is sacred to him. Nothing is sacred to him, not Jesus, not the Pope, not DoorDash, McDonald's, none of it. Not the DoorDash grandma who probably did like 10,000 deliveries to earn the chance to deliver his Big Mac and 19 Diet Coke, so whatever disgusting shit was in that bag. But he's gross. He's disgusting always. And none of this nonsense is normal. And never forget that this is our commander in chief. This is the leader of our military. This is a person that our allies are watching and our enemies are celebrating. All right, our enemies are celebrating because he's posting pictures about Jesus and not focused on our national security. But let's focus on our national security. Let's talk about the other part of our top topic until further notice, which is Iran. Yes, the Iran drama continues to unfold. Trump's got himself in quite a mess here. And now Iran has proposed negotiations are supposedly still happening. Iran proposed suspending the nuclear activity for up to five years. The Trump administration rejected the offer insisting on 20 years, according to two senior Iranian officials and one U.S. official, which makes me ask, why are they okay with 20 years? I thought they wanted to eliminate it entirely. So if they've stopped bombing and they're negotiating, why negotiate for something less than you would have gotten from the bombing? I think getting rid of the new capacity is a good thing. It's an admiral goal. But the outcomes continued to be all over the place. Now, Trump is hinting at the fact that U.S. Iran talks could resume over the next two days because Trump wants a new season of this drama for the world to be captivated by. He's been teasing more talks. He says something could happen over the next two weeks, next two days in Pakistan, where the talks had fallen apart. Now, both sides are really stuck on the proposed suspension in uranium enrichment. They can't settle on a timeframe. The U.S. also wants to dismantle Iran's major nuke enrichment facilities and the immediate reopening of the Strait of Hamuz. Meanwhile, the Iranians, if you haven't seen them, are posting some pretty diabolically effective videos of Trump talking about Epstein Island. They kind of sound like M&M videos, but they're really hitting them in a place where it hurts. Also, in related news, Israel and Lebanon talked for about two hours and then stopped. First, in decades, which is significant and something worth focusing on, but Israel refused to commit to a ceasefire in southern Lebanon. So there we are. All right, let's talk about the blockade, which, as I covered yesterday in the show, is an act of war, according to most international law and international observations. Unfortunately, our Congress has still refused to have a vote on a war in Iran, which is what I think they should do if they're being responsible. They should come back in session to an emergency session. But here's something you need to know. Dan Lamoth over at the Washington Post highlighted that Sencombe today announced that more than 10,000 sailors, marines and airmen, along with a dozen warships and dozens of aircraft, are executing the mission to blockade ships entering and departing Iranian ports. In the first 24 hours, no ships made it through the blockade, six merchant vessels complied, and the blockade is being enforced. It's being enforced by 10,000 of America's sons and daughters, who are in harm's way now to execute this blockade. It's a reminder, an important reminder, that the blockade is not just ships and guns. It's people. It's husbands and wives. It's dads and moms. It's sons and daughters. Don't lose sight of the humanity of war. And this blockade, make no mistake, is an extension of that war. These men and women are in harm's way. Don't ever lose sight of the human beings involved. Ever. Now, there's something else you can't lose sight of. That is below the radar. All right, below the radar. In the midst of the Jesus stuff and the McDonald's delivery and the DoorDash lady, and the scandals coming out of Congress that we'll get to in a second, also with Michael Steele, Trump is urging the GOP to extend a surveillance law, citing the war in Iran. The military, Trump has posted on True Social, saying, our military desperately needs FISA 702. And one of the reasons we have such tremendous success on the battlefield, both in Venezuela and Iran. So the president has said he's putting aside his concerns about risks to him as a citizen. And the fact is, whether you like FISA or not, it is extremely important to our military, he's saying. I've spoken to many generals about this, and they consider it vital. No one, even tactically, even tacitly, said they can do without it, especially right now with our brilliant military operation in Iran. Now, U.S. national security officials have been scrambling to prepare for potential blind spots in intelligence collection if the law lapses on April 20th. But civil libertarian groups and civil liberties groups on the left and right argue that the surveillance authority risks infringing on Americans' privacy. Here's another unique issue where Trump has united people who could never be united, but you will get folks on the left and on the right, and especially in the middle, moderates and independents who will say, hell no, hell no, to more surveillance from the government, is everybody good with Trump and Palantir and Hegzeff and ICE spying on you? Spying on you, listening in on your conversations, having surveillance of you, your family, your business, your neighborhood? Oh, hell no. Oh, hell no. Trump just found a new way, especially to upset his base, conservatives and civil liberty, civil liberty of focused folks. He doesn't want to come after your guns. I guess he's taken off of that, but he does want to spy on you. He wants to spy on all of us. I think we should all say hell no and all, stay vigilant. All right. I need water for this day because it's hot. Meanwhile, related to this wanting to spy on Americans, ICE continues to run rampant across America. We haven't seen ICE dominating the conversation. Mark Wayne Mullen has been a little below the radar, but make no mistake that we'll come back around because they're still doing bad shit and you shouldn't believe the government. You should believe your eyes. If you're not angry, you're not paying attention. There's more coming up with Michael Steele. Trump is of course still threatening to take over the Western Hemisphere from Greenland to Cuba. Don't take your eyes off Cuba because that's still on his vision board. And in other parts of the world, Venezuela and parts unknown in particular, they hit another one. Now you probably didn't see this unless you're a national security junkie like me, but US Southern Command posts on X mostly announcements and videos every time they do an operation. They conduct an operation. And on April 13th, again, at the direction of Southcom commander General Francis J. L. Donovan, Joint Task Force Southern Spear conducted a lethal kinetic strike on a vessel operated by what they called designated terrorist organizations. Intelligence confirmed the vessel was transiting along known narco trafficking routes. Two male narco terrorists were killed. No US forces were harmed. Hashtag op Southern Spear. No sharing with the public of information about who those alleged narco terrorists were. No authorization from Congress. I haven't even seen a statement from anyone in Congress, but they're back at it. They're hitting boats again. They never really stopped. And whatever happened to that full video of the September 2nd boat strike, whatever happened to the allegations of war crime? The most important story in the world is still that Donald Trump can do anything he wants with the most powerful military the world has ever seen and nothing is stopping him as his forever war rolls on. All right. Meanwhile, in Ukraine, the war continues to roll on. It is day 1511 of Russia's full scale invasion of Ukraine. And there is some good news for Ukraine. And it has to do with the results of the election in Hungary, because the newly elected leader of Hungary, Peter Madjar, is strongly standing with Ukraine. Please, Chris. And Hungary knows that Ukraine is the victim of this war. And that Ukraine, based on the Budapest Memorandum of 1994, it is the job of any Ukrainian government to protect its territorial integrity and sovereignty. And no one should tell them that at the hopefully at the end of a four year war, under what conditions they should enter peace or sign a peace treaty. So we cannot say any country to give up their territory. If they do, they are a traitor. And this is what the fittest politician said. Then I would like to ask them, what happened? What would you do if Russia attacked Hungary? Which Hungarian counties would you be willing to give up? He's saying what the American president should say. Ukraine is the victim of this war. I've said before that what Trump has often done, advances often done is geopolitical victim shaming of the Ukrainians. They didn't ask for this war. They didn't ask to be invaded. They didn't ask to have their cities bombed and and miss old and hit with drones. But that's where they are. And the Ukrainians amazingly, bravely, stunningly, inspiringly continue to fight back and continue to push the edge of modern warfare. And there's news that Ukrainian robots have taken a battlefield. Play that clip please, Kris. All right, the top line. Zelensky has announced for the first time in war, in this war, an enemy position was captured entirely by ground robotic systems and drones without any infantry. A robot entered the most dangerous zone instead of a soldier and took the position. He made this statement in front of a whole bunch of weaponry wearing black. It looked like a fucking terminator movie. But it was really, really impressive. And it shows how Ukraine is becoming the arsenal of freedom. They are innovating and creating and pushing the boundaries of technology and defense systems in a way that nobody else is. So it's another reason to stand with Ukraine and to support their obvious and overdue entrance into NATO. There is no more seasoned ally, no more innovative ally that we should want in NATO than the Ukrainians. We should also support their entrance into the EU and help them hold the line because they are innovating on the forward edge of combat. And one day, we're going to need that kind of technology. We're going to need that kind of innovation and we might need them as an ally because we definitely do now. And it's another reason to stay vigilant. All right, let's go to politics, which is a uniquely disgusting this week. There is a developing story around Representative Eric Swalwell. More news continues to come out as he's announced he will be resigning from Congress. A woman has accused him of rape. A survivor, Lone Drews, had a press conference today, said that the former candidate for governor drugged and assaulted her. He's denied all allegations, but accusers continue to come out. And it's some disgusting and diabolical accusations. Everybody should be innocent until proven guilty, but these accusations are stunning, are damning, are piling up, and it's some really alarming and terrible stuff. And meanwhile, Gonzalez, Tony Gonzalez is also leaving Congress. He is a GOP guy. So this is bipartisan. You got Democrats and you got Republicans. Gonzalez has now finally announced his resignation on Monday after himself being accused of having a sexual relationship with a staffer who later took her own life. He's also facing a congressional investigation into his conduct with the possibility of an expulsion vote, but he didn't talk about the affair as the reason he's resigning. This is what he wrote on X. There is a season for everything and God has a plan for us all. When Congress returns tomorrow, I will file my retirement from office. It's been a privilege to serve the great people of Texas. Well, looks like it's God's plan to have him out of Congress. And hopefully, if it's appropriate, he and Swalwell will be in jail. And maybe this will give some momentum to the Epstein calls for justice. We've had Rokana on this show before. If you haven't heard that, go back and check it out. I hope Tom Massie will also join us and we will continue to keep a focus on Epstein as most of America wants. I'll talk about it and touch on it with Michael Steele coming up as well. Staying on politics. The Republicans every day drive us off a cliff and the Democrats can't stop them, can't save them. Independent candidates continue to reach out to me, letting me know they want to run, especially independent veterans. They want to meet the moment. They want to be the people's champion and they're not just moving the needle. They are the needle. And people are smelling what we're cooking. And look who's seeing the future. Marjorie Taylor Greene. Play that clip, please, Chris. Do you still consider yourself a Republican? I would not. I don't really know if I do consider myself one right now. I would say I'm definitely leaning more calling myself an independent. Have you gone so far as to change your your registration? Not yet. I haven't changed it yet. But I will probably think pretty deeply about doing that. And I think it's important because I think that's where many Americans are leaning. They're finding themselves. They're saying if they're a Democrat, they're saying, well, the Democrat party has failed me. If they're a Republican, they're saying, well, the Republican party has failed me. And, you know, I had tweeted at Ro Khanna this morning. He's mentioned and others have mentioned pulling together a coalition from the left and the right and trying to find a new center because the current center has got us where we are. I mean, that's the reality. The current center with Republicans and Democrats, the way they have been coming together for decades now, is what we have. Yeah, she says that's where many Americans are leaning. You think? Have you been listening to this show for the last five years, Ms. Taylor Greene? But welcome to the future of American politics, especially for and with young people who at almost 60% are declaring their independence. They're never filing as a Democrat or Republican. They're starting out as independence and unaffiliated. That is the future. And so you're right about that. And Ro Khanna was on my show earlier this month to discuss it. And if he'd leave the Democratic party, so I invite Marjorie Taylor Greene. Yes, I'm going to do it. Marjorie Taylor Greene, you said some crazy and disgusting stuff, but you've also made some sense lately and you could be a source of power in pushing back against Trump. So I want to have the conversation. Come on on. I invite you to join me here on Independent Americans, just like Ro Khanna did. The two of them did a CNN interview together yesterday as well. So maybe there's some momentum there. But the seal is finally breaking on the duopoly. And maybe you, Marjorie Taylor Greene and Ro Khanna can help us lead the way. Either way, the future is here in warfare and in politics. We're going to stay ahead of it and we're going to stay vigilant. All right, we're going to stay vigilant with Michael Steele coming up in just a minute. But first, culture. As I talked about earlier, the 2026 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductees have been announced. Wu-Tang Clan led the way, but this is a really great class of amazing artists. Phil Collins, who I am always inspired by as a kid who grew up playing the drums, the guy who went from being the drummer to being Genesis's lead guy to being Phil Collins, the great Billy Idol. Iron Maiden will be also inducted. Joy Division, New Order, Oasis, the amazing Shadei, who got me through college and continues to give me grace and comfort at times, the beautiful and amazing Luther Badros and of course, the Wu-Tang Clan. So we will continue to feature these artists in the day to come. And I hope that they will use that opportunity for their induction to talk about what's happening because we need more artists to speak out. We are looking to people in culture and entertainment, especially to help break the seal, as the lead singer from The Strokes did yesterday at Coachella talking about the draft. We need to engage, especially young people right now and what's happening in musicians of all different generations can help us do it. All right, so can sports. And in sports, there's a lot of good stuff happening. It's a good break from everything. Last night was the WNBA draft, not the military draft, the different kind of draft, the WNBA draft. And the Dallas Wings selected Yukon star Ozzie Fudd as the number one pick. She's an incredible player. If you haven't seen her, she's going to be joining her fellow teammate from Yukon, Paige Becker's. At Dallas, she's going to make a $500,000 payday waiting for her as the number one pick, which still seems kind of low. But she's an incredible player. The draft was inspiring. And it's always something to watch. I'm going to talk about the NFL draft and why that's important and the military draft coming up with Michael Steele in just a second. Baseball. Baseball is getting really good. And last night, if you didn't see it, there was a fantastic game, maybe the game of the year, but I'm sorry I didn't go to, but the Yankees beat the Angels up in the Bronx 11 to 10. Two home runs from Mike Trout and two home runs from Aaron Judge. Both will be Hall of Famers and they were dueling it out. And the Yankees won in the bottom of the ninth. Really fun. Baseball continues to be an escape. And if you left baseball, come on back. I mean, the pitch clock and the changes to the game and the level of excitement has never been higher. And I think we're looking at another great year in America. And also in America, coming this summer is the World Cup. And there is World Cup news, the New York Times and the Athletic are reporting that New Jersey Transit is currently planning to charge more than $100 for return rail tickets from Penn Station to MetLife Stadium for the FIFA World Cup games. It's an 18 mile journey that ordinarily costs $12.90 for a return ticket. They're going to charge $100 because it's really hard to get to MetLife Stadium. It's even harder to get home. But this looks like price gouging to me. And no matter what they do, it's still one of the most annoyingly difficult stadiums to travel to and from in America. I might have to bring back our infrastructure sucks. The hashtag and Chris, you might have to make a song about it. But sports and culture continue to intersect. And our guests today played a very interesting sport. One that you don't hear a lot about, fencing. And we're going to need some fencing skills at this time in our nation's history, especially, to help us parry, which is a defensive action where a fencer blocks his opponent's blade to guard, part action in which a fencer blocks his opponent's blade or lunge, the most common attacking technique in which the fencer launches themselves at their opponent by pushing off the back leg, which generally remains stationary. But fencing is an amazing sport. It's an under-appreciated sport. And we need some fensers right now to defend our democracy. Michael Steele is one of them. I am one of them. And if you're listening or watching, so are you. And now, especially now, on this Tuesday, we're all going to have to utilize our fencing skills and stay vigilant. Independent Americans around the country and around the world, it is a crazy time. And we need friends, allies, mentors, leaders who can help us navigate it. And we have a returning champion to help us do that. This is his fourth time, I believe, on the show. Might be the fifth. He is the co-anchor of MS Now's The Weeknd. He is on weekdays at 7pm. He might be the only Republican with a show on MS. He's co-hosted MS Now's The Weeknd. He's been a political analysis. He was elected Lieutenant Governor of Maryland in 2003. He was chairman of the Republican Party. He was the first African-American to hold either office. He's been on Meet the Press, Space the Nation, Real Time with Bill Maher, which I want to talk about, and The Daily Show. He's the author of two books. He is an Aspen Institute Rodel Fellow in public leadership, which sounds very fancy. A University of Chicago Institute, a Politics Fellow, and Chair of the Gwendolyn S. and Colbert L. King, and Dow Chair in Public Policy Lecture Series. This is interesting. I did not know this. He was born on Andrews Air Force Base in Prince George's County, Maryland, raised in D.C., graduated from Hopkins, Georgetown Law School, and is a voice of reason in these trying and wild times. The great and powerful Michael Steele is back on Independent Americans. Welcome back. Dr. Steele, Jr. Welcome back. Dr. Steele, Jr. It is good to be back in the neighborhood, my friend. Dr. Steele, Jr. You're looking good, man. That's why we keep it a clean. Keep it a clean. Dr. Steele, Jr. Right? You also look good. I like that you got the blue going on. You got the blue jays of John Hopkins, right? Dr. Steele, Jr. Yeah, baby. This is one of the fencing kind of, you know, I was a fencer. So we, you know, I regaled. Dr. Steele, Jr. No, not either. You were a fencer. Dr. Steele, Jr. Yeah, fenced that pay. Yeah. Tell me about, how did you get into fencing? Because I live in New York City. My kids go to public school and there's always this like really interesting, very intense focus on chess and fencing in New York City schools. So my kids are like fully aware of chess, of course, and fencing. But how did you get into fencing? Dr. Steele, Jr. You know, it's the funniest story. I was walking across campus passing the gymnasium with a buddy and I saw a couple of guys who were going to the gym for practice in their fencing gear. And I thought they looked damn cool. I was like, what did they do? And the funniest thing, honest to God, he goes, oh, they're fencers. And I'm thinking, is that legal? I mean, because I grew up, where I grew up, fencing had a whole different connotation to it. So when he said they're fencers, I'm thinking, oh, Meg, you can do that on campus? Is that legal? And they have clothing too? It was crazy. I was young and dumb. I was a freshman. But I followed them into the gym. And the next thing I'm watching them, and I talked to a couple of guys. And I love, you know, I'm old school sort of swashbuckler kind of guy, you know, Earl Flynn and all of that back in the day. Love those movies. And I went up to the coach and joined the team. And next thing I know, I'm fencing and I'm fencing because of my height and my arm length. I fenced epa, which is the entire body is the target as opposed to what people typically know, where, you know, it's just the chest portion. But yeah, it was fun, man. I was pretty good at it too. That's really good. And they look like ninjas and they carry swords. And that's pretty cool. And you don't have to be outside in the weather. Did you ever go like, to the next level of these guys who do like, Lord of the Rings, shit in Central Park, wearing armor and they have like, no, no, I kind of moved on by that. No, I was not in the park slinging a sword. No, you know, like at the Renaissance fair where these guys are out there like, Renaissance fairs. Yeah, I just went to the Renaissance fair here in Maryland this past fall. I love the Maryland Renaissance. I'm still my son and I go and I'm still trying to convince him that one year we actually have to dress up. Yeah, I was gonna say you don't dress up. Well, this I don't dress up, but we did. I got I got my helmet. So I've got I've got the the medieval helmet and I've got a number of blades. I'm a sword collector. So let's go kind of do that and have some fun with it. I like this. I very much like, did you ever do jousting? I have not jousted. Not not on horseback. There are various forms of that that you can do, but it's less exciting because you're not riding the horse. Yeah, I've seen I think I've seen bicycles. I feel like there's a whole YouTube world of like, I've been stupid on the bike. Yes, I've done something similar on a bike and that did not end well for either me or my opponent. So my kids, my kids have been watching Dude Perfect. So I feel like there's going to be a whole episode of Dude Perfect where they do some crazy shit with fencing and rock it and some other things. Yeah. All right, well, this was a lot of fencing going on in politics and news. Let me ask you what I ask everyone, Mr. Steele, where are you, my friend? And how are you in these trying and wild and crazy times? Well, you know, look, I am where I've always been. And that is politically centered in an idea of how politics should work that was been born out of, you know, a number of years in public service. And that is not where my party right now is, the Republican party. I fight with it every day to try to pull it back more and more to seemingly want to dive off the cliff with Trump. But whatever is left from that will continue to sort of recreate and reimagine a Republican party that is once again viable. I don't think this is viable. I think that will be proven this November. And I think what will come from that, the aftershocks of that could be pretty important. But there's a small, you know, sort of ragtag team of us who kind of stay engaged, keep leveling up as those ideas. You and I have had conversations about independence in this country and the role that they not only are playing, but will continue to play over the next generation. I think within 10, 15 years, we will have a viable third party in this country. And I think we need it. I think the chokehold that Democrats and Republicans have right now is untenable. I think the American people are more and more coming to realization, particularly with this current generation of, you know, 18 to 30 year old voters who have a very different idea of politics. And you tap into that frequently with the conversations you have. And certainly from a veteran's perspective, as we're now at a time of war, undeclared war, in which we've already lost 13 young men and women, those folks in the veteran community who have had experience with this type of behavior from government. And those now emerging as voices that are trying to pull us back from the brink, those things become very, very important. And I think they become foundational for politically what will come next, potentially. I want to dig into all of that. I want to get your latest thoughts on Iran. I want to talk about Marjorie Taylor Greene and Ro Khanna. But also, where are you geographically? Because if folks watching on YouTube, it's a very, not only is your outfit, that Hopkins beautiful blue there. It's kind of like- I'm here in Chris, you're at this county, Maryland, baby. That's where we hang out. And what is over your shoulder, that beautiful black and white photo behind you? That is Muhammad Ali. And Muhammad Ali gave a speech. And the photo is a photo of him after his talk. He was taking questions and he was standing there. And the friend of mine took that picture of Muhammad Ali. It is a very rare photo of him. He signed it and sent it to me as a gift. And so I've got Muhammad Ali over my shoulder. And my mama's next to him and in that smaller frame. So my mama and mom, the two people helped me do the bottom, baby. Get out in the world. Those are two good people to have your back, man. Those are two very good- I rope it up with the dopes. Man, well, you are hoping it up with a lot of dopes. But let me ask you, speaking of which, I just was on the Bill Maher show on Friday, which is always wild. It's a lot for folks who don't know. It's a live studio audience. It's the first time I've been on the show since they went to two panelists and didn't bring in a fourth. It used to be three and then you bring in somebody in the process. I think it was my sixth time on the show. One thing that I forgot about, and they tell you this beforehand, is you get seated when the first interview was happening. Bill was interviewing Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel. And I was sitting next to Douglas Murray. And no matter how many times they tell you, you're not ready for when the entire stage shifts. The whole thing goes, it's like this giant robot and it clicks into place like Voltron. And they told me, like, I was like, yeah, okay, but the crowd is in. And all of a sudden I was like, oh, shit. I felt like I needed a seatbelt, right? But that's one of my takeaways. I also told folks that he does an after party with an open bar, which is kind of nice, right? It's very few shows. Do you get to hang out afterward and have a drink? I will tell folks I did ask Douglas to have a drink and he declined after our testy little exchange, which disappointed me. But none of the less, I did enjoy hanging out with folks after backstage. Because I think I also mentioned this once on the show before too. Meet the Press used to do this. You probably did it back in the day, where I think it was when, back when Russert was hosting, and I think when Gregory was hosting, they would have breakfast afterward. Yeah, they do. Yeah. I mean, that were like, they would stop. And for folks who don't know, last time I was on, I think it was with John McCain and Wes Moore. And maybe John Krakauer. And after the show was over, they come out with like a waiter and China, and you have like a proper breakfast at the table. And it was really nice as a way to kind of like break bread after all the problems. That evolved over time to they would have a lot of that sort of setup in the green room pre-show. You could go in and have a nice China plate of breakfast. Because typically what they found is after the show, a lot of the guests had to leave to go do something else. They would get you since you were there so early in the morning. Yeah, shows do that. And it's good. Bill Maher, I've done, my first appearance on Bill Maher was 1996. I was a county chairman. And there was a period there where I would, for about 10 years, I would do Bill Maher twice a year. I would do it in the, this time, April, and then I get in the fall. And COVID changed that. So prior to 10 to 15 years over that period, I would do Maher's show about twice a year. And I love everybody on the show. Bill and I are good buds. We had some really fun exchanges and conversations over that time. And the show is, I mean, the show has changed. Bill has changed. He's come under a lot of noise about how he talks about and frames this particular American moment, this political moment. And I tell people fundamentally that if you follow the thread with guys like Bill, the thread is largely the same. He has been consistent. He's a libertarian at the end of the day. And there are times when they can sound pretty progressive or liberal. And there are times they can sound pretty conservative. And that's because at the core of it is this idea of your liberties, what you are free to do. So when you listen to him talk, you have to do so. You have to level up your intellectual game. He makes it funny. He makes it a joke for sure. But the comedy is a way of framing a very serious issue to open your mind a little bit more because when you laugh at something, you're less inclined to get angry. And this goes to the exchange that you had on the show, where it gets a little bit, and I've been at the table when that has happened with other guests. It has rarely happened with me because I will always try to, I'm not trying to make it personal. You ask me a question, I'm going to give you the answer. But if you come up in my face with some bullshit, well, guess what? We're going to smack it down. And so it's always been this kind of honest exchange. And what I've liked about it is that Bill has always sought the opportunity to bring voices like mine, Republicans and others to the table, particularly in those early years where it just was not accepted to have conservative voices on TV because it was easy to trash them and make fun of them. But then when the opportunity to give them a lane to come on and respond, that was not offered. They offered it. So whether it was politically incorrect or real time, whatever that arc was, the motion was the same. And you experienced that on the show. And yeah, afterwards you have a good party. You get to hang with the people that you may have just done some battle with, offer each other a drink and sometimes they accept, sometimes they don't. But you know, you and I kind of cut the same way. That's not my problem. If you don't want to drink with me, that's not my problem. I'm having a drink anyway. Now they tape the show, which is a little different. And as we finished taping, because I think we taped it like three o'clock, came backstage and then Artemis was coming in. And that was kind of cool just to be like at a kind of a party with folks and Bill was shitting on Artemis. He doesn't like Artemis. He doesn't like the moon because I figured like, all right, he's got to find a contrarian view on this one. But the cool part was that everybody was together. And I think the unspoken part that folks don't know is they also fly out first class, they put you up in a nice hotel and they get pretty good curiosities. They got to get you out to LA and get people out from DC to walk into the crossfire. But it's, but I think it's also got a really long reach, which has been interesting to see how the media has evolved. You know, it hits YouTube later than it hits Instagram, but it's still got a really powerful reach. Let me ask you a related question. He's got the other show that's like the club lounge. I don't know if you've ever done that show. That's like his podcast, right? Yeah, I thought he just did Ziggy Marley and surprisingly Ziggy Marley did not smoke weed with him. Have you ever done that show? And have you ever smoked weed with Bill Marley? I've done a nice show and I've not smoked weed, although I'm a very big advocate of marijuana and cannabis hemp and all of that good stuff. But yeah, I look, I just high on who I am. I don't have, I don't need Well, I will tell you, I got enough juice going on right now. So he was surprised and Ziggy Marley said no. And I think it's fun to see him have people on just to see them react to whether or not they're going to smoke. So Bill, if you have me on, I will smoke with you. I will smoke with I know he and I have had the conversation and he's tried on a number of occasions to convince me otherwise. And, and, you know, we've had some fun, of course, because you know, folks know Mike Tyson's life from a brother in law. So there's all these kind of They didn't know that before they know that I did not know that. That's yeah, my sister. So, you know, it's just it's a lot of fun. And we have a we have a good laugh. And this is what I'm talking about. You know, there's just such huge lanes of respect for people when you do a show like bills and bill is a guy at the end of the day. You know, he's not just a comedian. He's not just a polemicist. He is a guy who's kind of, you know, trying to tap into, you know, everyday things, bringing a rather different funky expression and experience. And sort of presses buttons and envelopes, which is fine, because we all do that in ways every day. And we just don't necessarily call it that, you know, when we engage with a family member, we engage with a co worker, and you have that discussion. What's the difference? Yeah. Yeah, the difference is there's a red light with cameras and an audience. But it's the same conversation you just had two weeks ago with your grandmother, who you wanted, you know, who's bitch slapping you over supporting Donald Trump. And you were going after her over, you know, you know, Yeah, I was thinking about it. It's kind of like, you know, somebody's like, you know, what are those shows like? I said, with a guy like Bill, Bill's like Paul Skeens, you don't know what you're going to get. You might get the fastball, you might get the curveball, you might get the sweeper. You don't know if he's coming to you first, or he's going to somebody else. And I'm like, you got to be ready. You got to be prepared. You know, you got to be practiced. Yeah, you got to be ready to hit any kind of pitch because you don't know what's coming at you. And I think that's true, you know, on your show as well. But let me build on that if I can and go to what I think is our top topic, because Bill is going to be, he's going to get the Mark Twain prize in Washington, D.C. That's going to be kind of an interesting moment. But let's talk about this moment for Trump, where everybody's wondering like, when does he jump the shark, right? For folks who were too young to remember, that was like a happy days reference when after Fonzie jumped the shark, the show went downhill, right? Everybody's wondering when was it going to be? Was it going to be when he shit on John McCain, or when he shit on the Gold Star Father Khan, you know, what was going to be the breaking point? January 6th, I feel like there's been a confluence of events with ICE, the tariffs, the Iran war, all very unpopular. And now he's posted a picture of himself as Jesus and is fighting with the Pope. Can you talk about if this is a breaking point in kind of where he is his popularity or people who are willing to let shit go? I hear from a lot of people who are Republicans, who are conservatives, who are Magus words that that's it. I'm done. I've had enough. It's enough. We always wondered if that moment would come for people. But I feel like it's coming now in the last month for a lot of people, especially on the right, Megan Kelly or Sean Ryan and others that we didn't know if they would ever break ranks. But now they're saying enough, I'm out. Do you hear that from other Republicans too? Yeah, you hear it. You hear it a lot. I'm sorry. I guess I'm a little less forgiving. We've been put through 10 years of utter bullshit in hell. We've watched our government deconstructed and now barely functional. I've been trying just as outside. I've been trying to deal with matters related to my dad's passing last month and reaching out to because he was a veteran and he was a government, a federal government employee at one point early in his career. He had he was still tied into the system. And so I've been trying to go and deal with some matters related to that. And I get when I call the numbers that the government tells me to call you know what the message is. I'm sorry, we're no longer taking calls at this number. I'm sorry, there's no one available to help you. So when I see this and I hear this and that's just a small teeny, teeny slice of issues that people who were on government assistant programs, people who were trying to conduct general business related to their health care and their welfare, etc. And they can't. And you know how this all came about. We know Doge was brought in not to streamline and make government more efficient than to deal with waste, fraud and abuse. It was to steal our data. It was to take your information and my information so it can be later monetized and used to create wealth for someone other than us used against the American people in a way that you know now they're talking about oh well you know executive order to require you to give us states the election data for your for the people who voted so we can decide who gets to vote and who doesn't get to vote. So when all of this shit is happening and I'm hearing the making Kelly's and others out there want want want about Donald Trump kiss my ass. I'm not buying it because you're part of the creation of this. When those of us like me were saying stop this is this road does not it's not even a dead end people. It is a fucking cliff in which the American economy, American culture, American ingenuity and enterprise and freedom go off the edge. And so now everyone is like whoa. Well what's making you do that? At what point did you begin to realize the warnings that we were putting out in 2015 and 16. Now you see oh my god we need to stop. So I get it I get it Paul the appreciation that some are having you know the sort of the coming around that people are having and I guess if that's a breaking point okay whatever. But now we have a mess that we're going to have to deal with. I recall again 13 service members have died because of what this man has wanted for his economic exploits. You have two people in the Middle East negotiating peace. Mr. Whitcoff Stephen Whitcoff and his son-in-law. Neither of whom are diplomats, neither of whom have no experience in this in this space, they're there cutting land deals. That's what they're there for. And so the reality of it is when the president has not addressed the death of these soldiers when he stands there in a very sobering and somber moment at Dover with a fucking baseball cap on his head. Don't come to me now saying oh I get it. Because they're 13 soldiers who are dead. There's an economy that's in ruins. And now you bitched at Joe Biden about the price of eggs. Oh have you seen the price of gasoline? Have you seen the price of wheat for farmers? Have you seen the price of other items in your life that you're paying for because ships and the production lines are jammed up or cost too much that you're now seeing it at your Walmart and at your grocery store? Now you get it? So you know I just need that moment. This is why I wish they let you curse on MS now a little more. This is why podcasting is fun. This is where you get Michael Steele unplugged. But you know what? There's something that's important that you're bringing that I think that I respect a lot and I'm you and I text at times when you're on TV or I'm on TV. You bring emotion. And a couple, it's fun to watch the reaction to my Bill Marr piece on Twitter versus Blue Sky. People are like hey, Twitter like you're bald and retarded. That's literally what they call me. So I get these these contrasts. But a lot of people are like he was very angry. I wore this shirt today, the old angry American shirt. Because I've said if you're not angry, you're not paying attention. But what I've heard from a lot of people is they're glad to see emotion. They're glad to see other people who are outraged because sometimes you know we go to these shows, everybody sits down, everybody's very polite. And we like this guy's talking about like reinvading Iran and I'm supposed to sit there and go oh yes, that's a buy-a-butt. No, fuck that. Like this is nuts. And I'm not going to normalize some of that. But let me ask you, let's go below the radar. This is something I ask you each time. Whatever it is, his popularity is dropping. The midterms, if they happen in a free and fair, the Republicans may get demolished. I don't know. But let me ask you this, a lot of folks are leaving the Republican Party. That is an upside right now. He's driving them out. They're also leaving the Democratic Party. I'm going to ask you this every time you're on. Are you ready to leave the Republican Party now? Are you still going to give them your good name? And you know, you got Muhammad Ali and your mom. And I feel like they're still trading off that a little bit. As long as guys like you that are respected are still associated with this bullshit, it gives them just a little more validity. It actually doesn't. It doesn't give those individuals validity because their shit stinks so much. And they don't talk to me. They don't want to engage with me because they know when they do, I'm the mirror. I'm reflecting back to them what they've become. And I'm trying to the rest, to everyone else, reflect what we should be. Not what we were because I'm not looking to recreate the past. I'm looking to level up a reminder that at the core of, and this is why I've always from the very beginning, this is my 50th year as a member of the Republican Party. In 1976, I cast my first vote as a young 18 year old kid looking with no idea that the road ahead of me would lead to any of the stuff I've done politically. But what I did know that the party I chose to join was the party of my ancestors that realized and recognized in me as a black black kid growing up in DC that the words of the Constitution applied to me as much as they did to the white kid who lived around the corner. And that that party stood for that ideal, that we are all created equal, and we're all free to experience whatever this country has to offer. And that at the core of it remains our liberties. And the idea that if I want to do X, I can go do it. And if I decide to move from X to Y, I can do it. That sense of freedom is always defined us. And no matter how we got here, and some of us got here in very ugly ways, and some of us got here just on the boat and just came on over, and it was a good ride, right? Doesn't matter how you got here. The reality is what this country allows you to do once you're here. And the fact that we now to be very frank with you, because I've always been that way, that you have some white folks who are more scared of me and the idea of what my kids can do, then then being concerned about creating that pathway for their own future and saying, Well, my pathway is narrow because you're here. Well, that's bullshit. That's bullshit. When you look across the country at any point in time, whoever was here just kind of made their way. I mean, explain to me how when you tell me that I three fifths a person, I can't engage in commerce, you will not educate and allow me to read. You tell me that I can't have any economic enterprise. And when we create it, you go put on hoods and burn it down, right? And yet here I sit as the former lieutenant governor of my state and the former chairman of my party. And I have a show on television. So don't fucking tell me America doesn't create an opportunity regardless of the circumstance. And don't stop. I never once blamed white people for my problems when I had them. My mama taught me something very different, despite the fact that she couldn't take me to parks in DC. She couldn't shop where she wanted to. And she had to confront for white only signs wherever she went with her son or their young son. She still instilled in me this idea that I could be something and do something in this country, despite what the obstacles were for her. So don't give me this lame ass excuse that, Oh, well, the opportunity for my kids are less today. Well, guess what? Try not being able to educate them to shop where you want to shop. Have Jim Crow laws follow you wherever you go. Have white people or any people lynch you. If you dare look at them, live in that environment and then tell me what it's going to be like for your kids then and in future generations. When I go back in time, that's the America that I still believe is there. And I'm tired of people being lazy, Paul, and making excuses instead of recognizing you're getting punked by a punk. You're getting punked by a man who didn't have the balls to fight for the country he now runs, who didn't have the balls to be honest about his own racism in dealing with the Central Park five, still calling for the execution of innocent young black men. Why? Because he had a stereotype view of what black people are and what black people do and couldn't offer them how wouldn't offer them housing because it had to go to court because the federal government said, dude, you can't you can't black block black people from living there. This man's the president and he's down out here pushing all this bullshit. Come on, you've got to recognize the game and you've got to be honest about it and you've got to figure out how to make your way through it because otherwise it ends for you and that's what Donald Trump is. He's the end of the game. So Pete Hexeth is not inviting you to prayer breakfast at the Pentagon, huh? No, I think that what you're putting down is really important as always and the way you're challenging them is important. I do hope that the future includes people fighting from the inside and fighting from the outside but I do want to build on that, the fact that you're still there in the Republican Party fighting the good fight and I hope that there's this vision one day where you or a guy like you is again the chairman of this party that you know had John McCain and Ronald Reagan and George Bush but right now it's just like this rotting cesspool of misery and dishonor, right? But in the meantime, some folks are jumping ship and there is this moment now, you know, you and I have talked about the opportunity for independence. I think it's still there. We've got it especially in states where Democrats can't win. Independence can do very well but I think it's the future and we keep waiting to see if someone's going to break the seal, right? And I asked Ro Khanna on my show a couple of weeks ago. I said, will you leave the Democratic Party and maybe run as an independent? He didn't rule it out. Fast forward yesterday, he's on CNN with Marjorie Taylor Greene talking about a potential third option, third party, independent ticket. I feel like we're at this moment where somebody's going to break, right? And I've always hoped it was someone like Don Bacon and Jared Golden but it might end up being Marjorie Taylor Greene and Ro Khanna who I think is a bit more respected and different but the point is I feel like there's an opportunity here, right? Also for someone who might not get the nomination, who might be a fringe candidate, who might be opportunistic and they say, you know what, we're going to be the first ones and I'm going to put my foot or put my stake down in this and see if there's an oil well there. And I told Ro Khanna this. I said, I think there is. I think there are a lot of people who want that whether or not he's the guy, I don't know but I feel like we're close to a couple of people leaving. Do you see that and what's your reaction to the Ro Khanna Marjorie Taylor Greene alliance? Because maybe Tom Massey said no to him. I don't know. I challenge him. I said, can you and Massey build something together because you're on Epstein, you're on Iran, you're on all these issues. Maybe Massey said no and Marjorie Taylor Greene said yes. I think that's just opportunistic pairing. I just think it is happenstance as well. I don't think that there's any real political movement that comes out of that interview that you saw and referred to. I do think that and I think I know there are people who are leaving the party because they have reached that breaking point where the party has left them. And that's very important to understand. People don't leave political institutions because of what it takes to join them. In other words, it is not just, oh, I want to be a part of a club. It is an ideological orientation. It is a philosophical grounding. It is looking at the history and the polemics and all these other things that make up the idea of being a Democrat, the idea of being Republican. And understanding the transformation, when you look at Thomas Jefferson, he led the Republican Democrats and they eventually became the Democrats. You look at Abraham Lincoln, he was a member of the Wigs and that became Republicans. And so there's this transformation that you're alluding to that is a real thing. That when those people philosophically and otherwise feel that they have been set aside by the established order that they're a part of, or that order is not moving in direction that they see the country going. And that was the Wigs. The Wigs were like, wait a minute, there is this real discussion the country needs to have about slavery. And you're not just going to get there by saying, oh, you can't do it here and we won't expand it there, but we're going to keep it because it fundamentally still challenges the words in the Constitution. We the people, right? And all men are created equal and all, no, right? So when you have that kind of confrontation of spirit, it does move people. But what happens is that movement is the result of how the established order has moved away from those principles. And we see that, we see that a lot. So yeah, I think you're right. I think that that will be part of the formation of coalitions that at some point may converge into a broader movement or broader effort to create a third or even a fourth party. There's two things that happen at the same time. You go back and you look at the 2007, eight, nine cycle, the emergence of Occupy Wall Street and the Tea Party, two movements that philosophically were reflecting back their disagreement with the war and the economy and Wall Street, et cetera, two sides of the same coin. Yeah, so those things can happen and it could be a new coin being minted that on one side is a margitella green and a roguen and others. And on the other side is a rocona and a Garcia and some others on the Democratic side that create this new thing. Yeah, I mean, people like you can be very important. And I just blow on smoke here. I think you can be very important because you've always occupied this lane. You've always seen the vision of this lane and where it potentially could go. And as more people, I mean, because folks need to realize, you know, Paul didn't just show up today. Paul has been advocating in this space, both on behalf of vets and now more broadly the American people for a long time. So this is not, again, look at that evolution I'm talking about. Think about where you were when you started that conversation with four people looking at you like you lost your mind. And now, having the reach you have, having the conversations that you're having with the people you're having, that's the expansion of the effort. That's the growth of the moment as more and more people see themselves getting on that lane and following you and creating conversations on their own. I appreciate that. I mean, it's, look, I mean, demographics is destiny. It's 45% and growing. And they are an underserved market. And I've always seen that. I've always believed that, but they also have a set of values and integrity that this country is looking for. And people want folks who are willing to say none of the above. But I do think the animating issues of ICE tariffs, which I think is underappreciated, the war in Iran and Epstein. If those four things come together and you got people who say, you know what, everything else is secondary. We want accountability on forever wars. Epstein, we want no more tariffs and no more ICE. Like that's a pretty good fucking platform to reach a lot of people in this country. And if it's Marjorie Taylor Green or it's Karol Kana, or even more so, if it's somebody who's never worn a jersey that's red and blue, I think the moment is really, really there. Let me ask you this though, because I'm going to go to- Just real quick, just real quick on that. Just, I think, I think folks, if you want to get an example of what you're talking about, look at Mayor Mandan in New York. Yeah. Republicans tried to plaster him as this crazy socialist communist now in people leaving New York in drugs. Well, people leave in New York long before he showed up for a whole host of reasons that go from taxes to turf, right? So he's a good example of what you're talking about, particularly with respect to people we don't know today. We're naming people who are easily identifiable and people already have formed opinions about this space will be occupied and shaped by someone we don't even know. I love that. That is so true. And I believe that. I mean, this where I'm so excited about the independent veterans that are coming up and someone like Seth Bodner who's been on my show. Nobody probably knew about him a couple of weeks ago outside of Montana. But if this guy can get elected, if this guy can get momentum, he can prove the concept. But I also was going to ask you and then we'll get to something good. And then I know you got to go do your show. But I thought Hungary was really important because Mike Jar is not a leftist. He's center right, right? And I think in this country, everybody assumes that Democrats are going to save you. And what I keep saying is the alternate to Trump is not necessarily Mamdani. It might be something more in the middle or even center right that has that is on the landscape. I don't think it's Andy Beshear. You will be more center right than center left. Yes, I think that's right. And I think that the narrative in this country under appreciates that because they can't think of too many people anymore that are alive that are center right, except for maybe you and Kinzinger and a couple others like Chuck Hagel, who's not really, you know, where there is a really important space for that right now. But I do think it's important for folks to look at Hungary that the most important thing he did was run against Orban and run against authoritarianism and the economic situations and, you know, rejoining Europe. He did that. He had his list of four things, three things that as you just identified before, they weren't, you know, the war and so forth and the way you list them. But they were unique and specific to the governance of Hungary by the current leadership. It was specific to what's driving the people of Hungary. I was in Romania a few, a couple of years ago speaking at an event that brought people from across Eastern Europe and other parts of Europe. And there was this very strong, you know, at that time, very strong cockiness about, you know, sort of a, you know, the brace between Orban and Trump sort of created this sort of cocky lane of authoritarian right wing bullshit that my argument to the crowd was that's not how you win friend and influence people. You can't say you hate immigrants when they're immigrants everywhere because, hey, asshole, you're an immigrant too, right? You started over here, but then your parents and your family moved over there. Yeah, same continent, just a different location, new country, right? It's not like you had to cross an ocean to get to a place like America. People just don't understand the migrant flows out of Africa, the birth of all civilizations, by the way, into Europe and Asia and so forth. That's just nature and human. Now you want to kind of draw these crazy fake lines. Okay, do that, but understand that culturally, socially, economically, those things all connect people. And so when you, if you want to have that influence and to create something better, you've got to speak to those social, economic and cultural influences that they're experiencing. So when bread costs and their food lines and there's no gas and there's this, that's their focus. They're not going to worry about who's migrating from point A to point B. People don't want to fucking get along. They're sick of fighting with each other and they look around and go, if we all get divided by these lines, we're going to be fucking killing each other and fighting forever. We had enough of that shit, right? I mean, my family's from Hungary. I was there with my mother years ago. I remember going back to the homeland and like, you know, Hungary, there's a lot of amazing elements of Hungary, but Hungary is a lot more homogenous than a place like America. And, but in that moment, I think understanding the reality, I think people are realistic, right? I say this about Americans a lot. They're not stupid, but they're slow sometimes. Eventually they get there, right? And now the country's getting there. I love talking to you about this and also updating as this continues to evolve. Let me go to something good. I'm going to end with something good. Then we're going to go to your show, which I recommend people check out. So every, every day I pick something good. And I'm going to say today's something good is the fact that the draft is coming. And I mean, not that draft, the draft I've been talking about on my show all the time, which, you know, you will be mandatory enrolled for the draft. If you're 18 as of December, unless you're a woman, we've talked about a lot in this show. You're not getting drafted for Iran, but this is an important conversation. There's another draft happening. The NFL draft is happening next weekend. And the WNBA draft happened last night. And it's really awesome. It's a great moment to see these young people who put so much hard work in, who have families around them or have coaches around, who put in their entire life's work for this moment that becomes such a validator of hard work and integrity and determination and the communities that produce these amazing young people. So, you know, I think last night was extraordinary if you watch WNBA draft to see all of these amazing women, but also next week, you're going to see folks like Fernando Mendoza, who I think is a good dude. He's like a positive role model. He's a kind of guy. I hope my kids grow up. He treats his mother well. And I think we need these constant alternative narratives to Trump and Hegset and all these assholes. So next week, we're going to have a draft, a lot of amazing young men and their families and their moms and their grandmas, everybody else are going to be there to show what real leadership looks like. So my something good is the draft next week, NFL, especially Thursday night. Watch it. It's really, it's inspiring. But over to you, sir, Mr. Michael Steele. What's something good? Ah, something good. Ah, I like the NFL draft. I think something good is, you know, it's kind of in the vein of what we've been talking about. But the something good is, I just spent last week, an evening with about 600 high school kids and had a talk with them about life and, you know, expectations. And the response for them was not just hopeful, but enlightening. And the something good is that, I think to your broader point, that people are still finding the good things to do, the fun things to do. And while we, while we, you and I kind of delve into all of the machinations of politics and all of that, life is going on. It's just going on. And people are still doing things. And, you know, kids are discovering stuff and their parents are sort of exposing them to a world that is less limited and less encroaching on who they are, giving them the freedom to discover who they are in all, all manner. So that's the something good. I think, you know, that American spirit of, of, you know, so entrepreneurism, not just making money, but making self is a real, is a real positive. It just is. And I usually don't have real positive things to say like that. But these kids were really inspiring. And I just thought, damn, I feel better. I just feel better. Well, you have made us feel better. I will tell you, you know, for many years, for folks who are not hardcore Democrats, you've made folks feel better if they watch MS now. You know, you might be, I think you are the only Republican over there. I don't know if there's any, you know, you're not going to Republican party anymore. Right? I don't think no, you might, you might be, you know, you're deep behind, I'm going to say enemy lines, but you were, you were in a very interesting place. And it's a very important place. But also, I just want to say, you have always been a very positive role model for our children, for our young people. I appreciate that. You're always giving back, you're a great example for my kids and for all kids. And you've been holding the line always, you carry yourself with honesty and integrity. You were authentic before that became a cool thing, right? Like, you've been authentic for a long time. And I know you've done a lot of great work over the years. We're going to need you now in the next couple of weeks. I am inspired by guys like you. I remember, I remember some of our first conversations, the first time I got to see, I think you were on one of one of our shows on air. And I just thought this guy is really, really cool. And he gets it. And your heart for veterans and your heart for people is just, it's good. And so, for me, it's a lot of luck. I think what Pope Leo has been trying to convey at this hour. Remember his first words when he stepped out on the balcony of St. Peter's was not, you know, judgmental. It was not condemnation. It was not this sort of, you know, we got to get back to doing things, the old, it was peace be with you. It was just that kind of deal. And so that's kind of been my animating spirit, you know, it started from there. And then just, and I appreciate you saying being an example, just be a role model of how your mama raised you. Right. And that's work enough. Well, your mama did a heck of a job. And you know, I grew up Catholic. And my favorite part of church was always the peace be with you. And my favorite part of church, I hated going to church, my dad dragged me out of bed, you know, and especially when I was, you know, coming off like a football game the night before or something. But I always love that part where you do the handshake, you do the hug, you do the peace be with you. That's the best part of a Catholic church because the music isn't always great. And you're going to sit down and all that. But bring back the Gregorian chant. I'm all about that. When they do it in Latin, turn the other way. Right. I mean, that's what my grandmother used to tell me about. But that's how I was an altar boy. All right. A lot of conversations to be continued. Watch Michael Steele on MS now. Follow him on all social media. Thank you for all you do, my friend. And please, as always, help us stay vigilant. All right. That was an amazing conversation with Michael Steele. I'm so grateful he's always on the show. He's been a great friend, a great mentor. He's just a very nice person. And we didn't get to talk about John Wick this time. But if you want to go back and hear our previous conversations, we talked about John Wick and some other stuff that's a little unexpected. You can also watch him, as I said, every weekday on MS now. I'm occasionally over there in the building in Times Square. But Michael Steele is a voice that we need. My thanks to him. There's a lot of news happening. But as I told you, news about this show, we hit number 15 on the Apple podcast news charts and past Ben Shapiro, which is pretty significant because he's a juggernaut. And we also broke in on the all category segment. The first time ever, not just news, all podcasts on Apple, we hit number 107. The top 200 are linked. And that's significant. And it's thanks to many of you. The fact that we're ranking at all, and all of it is organic, all of our growth is organic is another massive testament to this movement. We have spent zero ad dollars ever to get to where we are now, which is supposed to be impossible. But it's not because our audience, our community, our message, this growth is earned, not bought, built by hand, brick by brick, thanks to all of you. And thanks to our fearless creative director, spirit animal, and producer Chris Rosenthal, especially my hats off to him, to all of you. And let's keep going like Wu Tang forever. All right, I would love to have Wu Tang members on this show coming up. We got some good guests coming up. And I would love to have any member of the Wu Tang clan, especially meth on this show, or any of the other living members of the Wu Tang clan, but they won't be here tomorrow. But Senator Angus King will be the independent Senator from Maine will be back on this show. How cool would it be if we could get them together? Imagine if I had Method Man and Senator Angus King on at the same time, that would be fun. That would be fun. But who do you want to hear from? We got Senator Angus King coming up. We've got Henry Rollins coming up. We've got a lot of other great guests coming up. But now that we're daily, I've got room and I want to hear from you. Let me know who you'd like to see on this show. Hit me up on social media. You can hit me up on Blue Sky, Twitter, Instagram, and on our YouTube page. You can comment right here if you're watching and help us continue to grow this movement because we're daily now and we're number 15 and climbing. So follow everywhere and subscribe. Go to independentamericans.us and get some merch. Mother's Day is coming up. You can get some merch from your favorite independent mom or independent dad for Father's Day. We will have our merch on the YouTube page soon as well if we don't already. And you can join our Patreon community. Chip in a couple bucks in honor of Wu Tang, in honor of Angus King, in honor of Michael Steele, in honor of our democracy and help us keep bringing this independent content further and wider than ever before. Because America's been really deeply divided, we all know that. But we're changing it. Brick by brick, episode by episode, guest by guest, day by day, here at Independent Americans, we're adding light to contrast the heat of all the other political shows. I am proud of the fact that we represent a very different, less extreme, less partisan viewpoint than a lot of those other shows that are in the charts. So if you're now among the 45% of Americans who are independent, especially if you're a young person, if you're under 25, if you're a Wu Tang fan, this is your show. Our independent movement is hope for the future. Country over party, people over politics, light over heat. Destructing the status quo and fueling a new movement that spans all across our society and that movement is growing. And we're bringing hope. Every show, I'm going to try to bring you some hope that is the oxygen of our democracy. So if you enjoyed this episode, Michael Steele, share it far and wide, share it far and wide with anybody who's a Billy Idol fan or a Phil Collins fan or an Iron Maiden fan or especially a Wu Tang clan fan, and invite others to declare their independence and stay vigilant, my friends, because eternal vigilance is the price of freedom. And now you're not alone in your freedom. You're not alone in your freedom. You're also not alone in your vigilance. We're all vigilant. We're all in this together. I'm your host, Paul Reikoff. Thank you for tuning in to Independent Americans. I will see you tomorrow with the latest and Senator Angus King. Happy Tuesday. Stay vigilant, America. Wu Tang forever. Stay vigilant. And it's not cool to believe in school, but if I can say one thing, I've seen the children of the revolution and the good trouble they can bring. He says the red and blue are better than independent is an attitude. An island in the sea of rhetoric and not the relago. He tells me the left and right are dreams for those without a clue. And when you wait, it's time to grow. Power by righteous media.