Topic: Going To School Sober (Multiple Speakers)

Hello and welcome to SoberCast, where we provide AA speaker meetings and workshops in podcast format. We're an ad-free podcast, and if you enjoy listening, please help us be self-supporting by visiting SoberCast.com, look for the donate link, and drop a dollar or two into our virtual basket. We hope you enjoy the podcast. Have a great day. we are so lucky today to have our guests our panelists we have jeff from chicago illinois and megan from st louis missouri um they're going to talk today about returning to school so going to school sober very exciting i know for me i got out of jail this is jeff or Kansas. I'm sorry. I'm all over the place. Welcome. Good to see you. Have a seat. For me, I got out of jail. I spent six months in jail and then I went right back to college and it was a surreal experience. It was like I was on sabbatical and I showed up and some of the people knew, like one of my teachers, his wife was the prosecuting attorney that put me in jail, you know, and I was in class once and I said, is there a vending machine around here and he was like yeah but there's no beer in it so you don't need it you know and I was like whoa but I had all kinds of awkward experiences after that and just being there and um and thinking everybody knew you know they all knew they all knew they all knew and it was really terribly awkward um experience for me but I got through it um for that small time that I went back and it was only because people in Alcoholics Anonymous I can go hang out with them you know and uh and so I'm I'm really excited to hear you guys talk and we're just going to go right down the list so um Jeff Jeff from Chicago. Thank you. Thanks, Sean, for getting us started. I'm Jeff. I'm an alcoholic. It's good to be here today. First off, I want to thank Ian and Stacey for asking me to speak here on this panel. I've got to say how proud I am of all the St. Louis people for pulling this conference up. I live in Chicago now, but I got sober in St. Louis, and I was sober here for five years before I moved up to Chicago. And I've got to say, you know, when I left St. Louis almost ten years ago, this conference would not have been possible. So it's really in the past ten years since I've been gone, which I don't know if that's a reflection on me or not, but in the past ten years since I've been gone, there's really been a groundswell of young people coming together and sobriety to really pull something like this off, and it's pretty amazing to watch. So I'm really grateful to be here and be a part of this, even if it is just the small part that I'm playing now. So I'm glad to be here, and great job, St. Louis, young people. So to let you know a little bit about myself before I get into it, there's a little tradition in my home group. There's three things that I want to let you guys know about. First is that I have a sobriety date. That's September 2, 1997. The second is that I have a home group. It's the Evanston Group up in Chicago. So if you're ever in town on a Friday or a Sunday night, look me up, and I'll try to get you out to the meeting. And then the third is that I have a sponsor, and his name is James, and I love James. He got sober younger, and he's grown up in Alcoholics Anonymous. And he texted me yesterday before the conference started about this talk specifically, and he said he gave me two pieces of advice. The first is do good, and the second is wear pants. So I've got successfully I've got the pants on. We'll see about the do good part. And then he told me that he was meditating naked, which I don't know if I should take him seriously or not, but I kind of hope that I should because that would be pretty awesome. So here we go, sober in school. First, show of hands, how many people are in school or have been in school in sobriety? So pretty much everybody. That's awesome. So you all have a little bit of experience with this already, so there's probably nothing new that I'm going to share with you guys out of my own experience today. like I said I got sober here in St. Louis at five years sober I moved to Chicago for the purpose of going to school I applied to two schools let me back up a little bit my first week sober was actually my first week in college and needless to say I didn't do very well I went to a little community college here called Merrimack and I signed up for classes I went maybe for two weeks to classes, and then I didn't go back for the rest of the semester, and teachers don't really like that a whole lot. You don't get many passing grades if that's how you approach school. And then the second semester, I did the exact same thing. I signed up for class, showed up for two weeks, and then I didn't go back. So I bombed probably the first six classes I ever took in college. And it's really like the rest of my sobriety. It's mostly a lot of failure, and then I have an experience that changes my attitude and then I have a new approach to it and that's exactly what it was with school. That was my first year in school. I decided to take a year off and, I don't know, hang out, work a little bit. I don't really know what my plan was, but I took a year off after I bombed my first year and that's when that change happened for me. And truthfully, it was when I got into the steps and really started to have a spiritual experience that we have and Alcoholics Anonymous, that I was able to really show up in life, show up to school and do something other than what I do left to my own devices. So after that year, I went back to school. I signed up and retook some of the classes that I took before, and I started to get A's and some B's, but I started to have a little bit more success than I did before. And I hung out at Merrimack for about another three or four years, just going part-time, retaking the classes that I had failed before, and taking some new classes, all the while raising my GPA, doing better, getting A's and B's in the classes that I had failed before, and the new classes getting A's and B's. And pretty soon I had taken all the classes that I could take for credit, right? So that meant it was time to transfer and do something else. And what ended up happening is I applied to two schools, two universities, one here in St. Louis and one in Chicago. And the one in Chicago decided that they were going to give me more money than the one that I applied to here, so of course I chose them. And really what a surreal experience having a school say that they're going to give you a pile of money to come take classes at their institution. You know, I'm the guy in high school that I walked across the stage of graduation not knowing if there was going to be a diploma in the envelope. And here I am, the school's offering to give me money, scholarships and grants, to come to their school to take classes and learn. And, I mean, talk about great events will come to pass, you know, really. And really that promise is what kind of followed me throughout my college career. And I love that they read that from a vision for you last night at the meeting because that's exactly what I kind of wanted to talk about here is great events will come to pass for you and countless others. And me being in school sober is really one of those great events for me. So I moved up to Chicago, and that's really when I started to have an experience sober too. I mean, you know, my first five years were great. I worked the steps. There was a fellowship that surrounded me and enveloped me, and I really felt safe. But really, you know, God's plan for me was to move to Chicago and have my own experience. And that's really what I started to have when I moved up there and went to school. And, you know, I moved up there. And I don't know if you've ever had the chance to move to a new place in sobriety, but it's pretty scary. But at the same time, exciting. And, you know, if you get the chance to do that, I highly suggest you do it. because it really, for me, was when I really started to trust that God had me and that God was showing up in my life to take care of me. My first three months in Chicago, I had a drinking dream almost every night. You know, I was five years sober, but I felt like the new guy all over again. And I had to reach out to the fellowship. And, you know, there's also that line in A Vision for You. It says, God will determine that, so you must remember that the real reliance is always upon Him. He will show you how to create the fellowship you crave. And that's what my experience was when I moved up to Chicago, not knowing anyone, feeling like the new guy again. There was this fellowship that I craved that I knew from back home here that I didn't have yet in Chicago. And what it really meant for me is I had to reach out. And, you know, being the good, defiant drunk that I was, it took me a while to really reach out and to find a sponsor and a home group up here. I think I was up here or up in Chicago for about a month before I really settled on a sponsor and a home group. But once I did, again, Alcoholics Anonymous, that fellowship enveloped me. And I really started to feel safe. And that was my support in going to school. And that's what it's grown from since I've been up there. So I moved up to Chicago to go to school. And that fellowship, you know, I had the fellowship in AA. and then there was the fellowship of people who were in AA, but I met at school at the same time. And there were a couple of people that I knew on campus that I would see who I knew were also sober. There was one of my closest friends still to this day. His name is Kevin. And I went to Loyola Chicago, which is a Catholic Jesuit school. And he had a couple of years sober, but he was studying to be a Jesuit priest. And he and I would hang out on campus a couple times a week. he'd invite me over to the Jesuit residence, and we'd invade the Jesuits' food, and we'd have lunch and hang out in the Jesuits' house. It was pretty hilarious. The big Jesuit residence and then the little Jesuit residence, and we'd invade both of them. And it's funny because the big Jesuit residence, I mean, it was beautiful, right on the lake, Lake Michigan, awesome view. It's this great, beautiful, big old house. And we'd sit there in the cafeteria, and it'd be me and him at this table eating lunch and talking about being sober, and we're surrounded by like 30 or 40 priests. Some of them I had in class, and all of them are old, crusty dinosaurs, you know. And there's me and him sitting there just being sober and being in school. It was amazing. There's another girl that I met who she had been going to Syracuse. She failed out, moved back home with her folks to Chicago, and she started going to Loyola to take classes. So here I am surrounded by a bunch of rejects, people who are failures at life. You know, she couldn't cut it being she wasn't sober at Syracuse, but she drank herself out of school there. So that's what I mean by a reject. So she came home. So I'm surrounded by these rejects, people who are getting sober, who were sober. You know, we're all failures of life. But here we are showing up and having a little bit of success on campus, sober, going to school. So I would show up and I went to class and, you know, from the spiritual experience that I was able to have, I was able to approach school with this power that I didn't know before. And that power was really what gave me the ability to show up in class. And I can tell you today that my experience at Merrimack compared to what it was at Loyola, the reason why I couldn't show up at Merrimack was because I was just so full of fear. You know, I kind of made an approach at the steps, a pretty feeble one, had written a pretty surface inventory. I really didn't get it down to a whole lot of real fears and resentments. So there was still that stuff blocking me off. But at this point, I had written a couple of more inventories. I was really able to see what it was that blocked me off in life from having any success. And I was able to show up. And that was the difference for me is that I started to have this experience, you know. And I was given the power to show up in class. And that's why I was able to eventually graduate, right? Since I graduated from Loyola, I've been able to go to graduate school, another school in Chicago called DePaul. And it's amazing. And this was really my experience with Loyola, too, same as DePaul, is I have no idea how I picked these schools. I really don't. Like I don't remember what the thought process was in deciding even to apply to these schools, much less to go to them. But there they were the acceptance letters in front of me And honestly I really don know how that happened I do remember grad school for me started a couple of years after I gotten married and the only reason why I decided to apply was because my wife Colleen was going to start going to school. She was finishing up her undergrad. And she just, like in passing one day, she's like, well, why don't you start applying and looking at graduate schools? And literally like a month later, I was in school. Like it was incredible. And that's really how things happen for me in my sobriety. Like if it's supposed to happen, it's going to happen, and I don't even know how or why it does, but it does. So that's how it happened for me, and I'm going to DePaul. And the program that I found was incredible. It was exactly what I wanted to do, even though I didn't know I wanted to do it. Public service management is what my degree is in. I have a focus in nonprofit administration. So it's everybody in this program. They were very mission-based, nonprofit organization-oriented kind of people, which is where my passion is today. But at the same time, the program, they had these condensed study abroad programs. And I did a couple of these while I was in graduate school. And I went to Ireland twice. I went to Belgium once. And I studied at some institutions overseas. And what an incredible experience. I mean, that's something that a guy like me doesn't get to do. You know, like I said, I barely made it out of high school. And to have these experiences of going to other countries and studying the way that they do things, it's unreal. And the big difference, I think, between my time at DePaul and Loyola was that I didn't have anybody who was sober at DePaul. These were people who were in the world, not alcoholics, you know, people who don't have the problems with showing up in life that we have. You know, these people aren't failures. They aren't rejects. These people know how to show up at life. And I'm surrounded in class by 25, 30 of these people at a time. And I'm like, what are you like? How do I even relate to you? You know what I mean? But because I'd been sober and had some of the experiences I had, I developed the ability to have relationships with people even outside of Alcoholics Anonymous. this. And I'm grateful for that because I still, I keep in touch with a lot of those people that I went to grad school with. And, and I guess, you know, the end result of that is that I have some people that I can call professional contacts, you know, which is weird in and of itself, a guy like me saying that I have professional contacts. I don't even know how that happens, really. But, you know, that that's really my experience of being sober in school. And, And, you know, I think the theme of what it really boils down to in me attending class, and this is true throughout my life, but it's that line, great events will come to pass for you and countless others. And what I have to put first in my sobriety is, you know, focusing on spiritual principles. If I can incorporate spiritual principles into my life, I really can do anything. And that's something that somebody told me early on in sobriety, that if I stay sober, I can do anything in Alcoholics Anonymous. And all of you who raised your hand in here who have been in school or who are in school now, you know that's true too. We don't belong doing the things that we do here in Alcoholics Anonymous. I can't stop going to jail on my own. That's the best I can do. I go to jail and then I come to Alcoholics Anonymous. That's the absolute best I got at life. And here I am. I got a couple of degrees. I have friends in and out of Alcoholics Anonymous. I can go to almost any corner of the country, and I know somebody there from the program. You know, what a great deal for people like us. And I'm grateful to be a part of this program. I'm grateful to be a part of this conference. I'm glad you all guys got up. Some of you, I know you haven't even been to bed yet, so I'm glad that you crawled your way down here, slammed a couple of Red Bulls, and made your way down to this meeting. So it's good to see all your smiling faces, and I'll turn it back over to Sean. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. That was a great testament to Alcoholics Anonymous. We really appreciated your story. And now we're going to move right along. I know Megan locally, and I know that she's a great example of Alcoholics Anonymous, and she helps a lot of women in this program. So I'm really excited to hear her talk about sobering school. And here's Megan from St. Louis. Hello. I'm Megan. I'm an alcoholic. It's good to be here. I might have trouble keeping my eyes open, but I'm going to try to stay with you guys. I did get sober while going to school, and I'm still in school. So I guess I'll share my experience with being sober in school. So I started drinking when I was probably, oh, I guess I should say my sobriety date is January 6th of 2007. I do actively work the 12 steps with my sponsor, and I have the privilege of sponsoring a few young ladies in these rooms. So anyway, I started drinking young, obviously, because I got sober young. I was about 12, probably. and I don't know, I hit the ground running and had alcohol poisoning the first time I drank and loved it and wanted to do it again and again. That was in grade school. So I went to high school at an all-girls Catholic school and I found the girls that drank like I did. And if they didn't drink like I did, it was my mission to get them drunk because I thought that I was giving them this amazing gift of discovering alcohol because I thought it was the best thing in the world. So that's what I did. I hung out with people that drink like I did, or I tried to introduce them to alcohol and get them to drink like I did. And, yeah, I'm not going to get too much into that, but things got bad fast. It went from drinking and having fun to drinking with a lot of consequences to drinking to feel just normal and feeling like I was crawling out of my skin if I wasn't drinking. And I hated myself and I didn't have a direction in life. I woke up every day just not hating my life and not really like I didn't have any motivation to do anything except for drink. And I have always been I've always kept school as a priority. even when I was drinking I was getting A's and B's somehow I would drink like only on the weekends and then it was like okay I'll do my homework and then I'll drink and then it was like I'm going to drink and try to do my homework which didn't really work out good well so I always kind of had my foot in the door with school but towards the end things started falling apart you can't get a lot accomplished when you're drunk and trying to do homework But I was introduced to AA the summer before going into my junior year of high school when I had just turned 17. So I started going to meetings. My experience was that I loved meetings because I related to people. These people drink like I did. They felt like I did. I just felt this commonality with them. um they started talking about sobriety and i didn't get that i didn't get how you could live without alcohol it was scared the shit out of me um because like it was my security blanket i used it for everything so it scares hell um but i liked going to meetings and hearing what people said my biggest um the reason i was a chronic relapser for um a good six months and the big reason was I was trying to live two lives still. I was trying to go to high school and be this normal high school student and fit in with the popular crowd and everything, and then trying to go to AA and maybe try to stay sober and try to get happy. And people told me, like, hang out with sober people, get a sponsor, pray, work the steps, and I didn't do it. I went to meetings and I tried to keep my old life going. And if anyone has done that in here, it's miserable. I played victim a lot my first six months. I felt really, really sorry for myself that I was 17 years old and having to get sober and everyone else my age was like out drinking and having fun. and people would come to school and like talk about the weekends. And then by the end of the week, everyone was talking about like the parties they were going to and stuff. And it was just really hard because I, I like kind of wanted to be an AA and be involved. But then every day going to school was here. It was in my face was my old life. Some other things I really struggled with was I identified as this party girl. Like, that's what people knew me as, and I kind of, I took pride in it. I took pride that I could hold my alcohol until a certain point. I could drink a lot, but then I would push it over the edge and throw up everywhere and pee everywhere and get just messy. But I took pride in it nonetheless, I guess. So that was really hard for me to, like, let go of that. But I didn't want to, like, I don't know. I just, like, I guess I just really felt like I, like, fit in when I was the party girl and stuff. So that was really hard for me to let go of that and, like, let go of being, like, in that center of all the stuff going on on the weekends and, like, knowing what was going on with who and what and everything. And then another big thing was people telling me I didn't have a problem. They'd be like, you're not really that bad, like, blah, blah, blah. Like, we do the same thing. And that was hard because I felt like I had to, like, prove myself and say, like, well, actually I'm not normal because this or that. But, I mean, people don't want to lose their drinking buddies for one. Two, people don't like that awkwardness of, like, trying to talk with someone when they have a problem, so they want to make it better. So what I basically had to learn was it doesn't matter if they understand, because probably most likely if someone's not an alcoholic, they're not going to understand, and they're not going to understand why you drink the way you do. And they didn't understand that, yes, I sometimes drink like them at parties, but I also drink by myself all the time and sat in my room depressed and, I don't know, drew pictures and stuff. Um, and so they didn't, they didn't understand. And for me to ask them to understand isn't really fair because they weren't experienced what I was experiencing. Um, so I kind of had to let go of explaining it to people. Um, another thing was when I came into AA at 17, I felt so awkward. Um, because I was used to socializing drunk, and that was easy for me, and I could talk to whoever, and I could flirt with whoever. And when I got here, I didn't have that crutch, and it was just me and my sober body, and I literally didn't know how to stand. I didn't know where to put my hands. I didn't know where to look. I didn't know what to say. I was just like a nervous mess, and it was really, really uncomfortable. And if anyone is new and feeling like that, that's completely normal. And it did take a little bit to grow out of and get used to because you're learning this new concept of how to socialize sober. So it took a while. But what really saved me was the fellowship here because people didn't give up on me. They would constantly ask me to hang out and stuff and I felt really weird about that because I felt like I was younger than a lot of people and I was younger than a lot of people but a lot of them were like in their 20s and I didn't understand that, like, they did want to hang out with me and that, like, age didn't matter. And now I see that because I'm 23, and I don't care how old you are, and I'll hang out with my 16-year-old sponsees, and that's cool because we get each other. but I didn't understand that. So I really felt like I didn't fit in, but I just kind of kept putting myself out there, putting myself in situations that were very uncomfortable, but the more I did them, the easier it got. My first sober dance was so painful, and I was like, there's no way I'm getting up there. And they drug me up there, and by the end of the night, like at the very end of the night there was like four people on the dance floor and i was one of them and i was like how did this happen i'm dancing sober this is crazy and now like that's one of my favorite things to do um so let's see i took some notes on stuff i wanted to touch on um but i did i relapsed for a while and that's because i kept trying to hang out with people So my last drink was actually at school. I was dating an alcoholic, and that didn't go very well, and he cheated on me, and I was so distraught. I didn't use any of the tools that anyone gave me. My mind just went to, I'm scared and hurt and pissed off, and I'm going to drink. By that point, my good friends that knew I was trying to get sober wouldn't give me alcohol. So my own resource was Listerine because it was easy to get and it did the job and it was cheap and I could walk in and buy it without showing anyone my ID. So I was drinking a lot of mouthwash. It's not good on your stomach. I wouldn't try it. So I was pissed off about this breakup or about this boyfriend cheating on me. So I brought a bottle of Listerine to school and drank it there. And things got bad fast. I went home, and one of my friends had told my parents, and they were pissed off. And, you know, we have this phenomenon of craving where we just need more and more. So I wasn't done. I needed more. There was no alcohol in the house. And so my next best idea was to drink rubbing alcohol to continue getting drunk. So I drank some rubbing alcohol. Unlike Listerine, that's actually the wrong kind of alcohol. It's isopropyl alcohol. So what I did was poison myself. And I went to the ER, and they thought I was trying to kill myself. I had to explain to them that I was just trying to get drunk. They put me in the psych ward after that. I was there for a couple days. Then I went to an outpatient program that was really awesome. but basically in the hospital I had this realization that my alcoholism is going to kill me so I need to do this deal so I finally started taking suggestions so I returned to school again things were really hard with people but I just finally realized I don't have the luxury of drinking I'm I am different and it's not better or worse but I'm different so from then on, I kind of stopped trying to fit in with my old crowd and hung out with more and more sober people. Um, and things got easier and easier. And some days I felt really sorry for myself still, but I just really, um, got closer to people in this, in this program. And, um, I use the serenity prayer a lot and um at that point well always but the way i looked at it was um i would say like god grant me the serenity to accept the things i cannot change which is my alcoholism and the fact that i can't drink the courage to change the things that i can which would be the people that i'm hanging out with and the things that i'm doing and the wisdom to know the difference and that kind of kept my head in the spot that i need to do what i need to do not what i want to do um so yeah that's kind of what my first year looked like was I struggled a lot and felt uncomfortable being in high school sober but um I kept doing it and things got better and better and um I plans changed I almost had a year sober I had a little over a year sober and um I found out that was pregnant and that threw a loop on things. Um, I had plans to go to college and like try to live in the dorms and stuff. Um, but then I got pregnant and, uh, I was like, what now? So I decided to keep my baby. Um, I decided that I would not go live in the dorms because I was due to have him in the middle of my freshman year. So I went to Merrimack and I did the same thing there. I didn't really like connect with a lot of people because I kind of was just there for school and I kept my sober friends in AA. So that was my, that continued to be my social life was AA. And I took my last exam on a Tuesday and went in for my C-section on Wednesday on Christmas break and, uh, had my son. And, uh, it's funny how God works because when I was 17, I would never have planned for things to happen that way. I did not think I was going to be, um, a 19 year old single mother in sobriety. And that's where God led me. And, um, my life is so good today. I can't even begin to tell you. So where I went to outpatient, I just want to share, was this outpatient program. I loved my counselor there. She was awesome. And I was like, I want to do what you do. Like, you're awesome. So she was like, well, go to school to do counseling or social work or something and come back and intern with me someday. So I was like, all right. So at that point, I was in high school. So I finished high school. got my gen eds done at Merrimack and from there I transferred to a local university and got my degree in human services did the same thing there kind of connected with some people that were cool but not crazy drinkers and kept hanging on to my AA friends and that's been good enough for me. I graduated Fontbonne last May and now I'm getting my master's in social work at SLU. And the coolest thing is I am now doing an internship at where I went to outpatient. And I'm working alongside with my counselor that I had at outpatient and she's the shit. And I see these kids every day that are exactly like me. And like, I'll open my mouth and like read their mind and they'll be like, how'd you know that? And I'm like, because I am you. Um, and it's just really, really cool. Things have really come full circle. And without having the fellowship in AA, I wouldn't have been able to stay sober because I wouldn't have had friends. Um, and if I would have gotten sober at 17 and not have not had had any fun I wouldn't still be here um but I found that people were there for me time after time my friends that I drank with um they disappeared slowly and surely um as I got sober and I got more and more friends in AA and they've carried me through this through everything um and supported me through school and um My favorite thing to do, well, school-wise, is hang out at coffee shops and do homework. And I have this amazing 3-year-old son right now who is the center of my world. And I'm doing my internship at my outpatient program and loving that. So I guess, yeah, that's my experience with being sober in school. So thank you. Thank you, Megan. That was incredible. And up next is Kansas from San Diego. My name's Kansas. I'm an alcoholic. Thank you guys for talking. Sobriety date is July 2, 1996. Sponsor is Paul C., Oceanside, California, and Old North County Young People's Group. um yeah i had a my my my college my collegiate experience was a little bit different um than than would have heard so far after this uh i uh i got sober at 18 um i had no high school credits at all when i when i got sober um i i did however have a gd um i had stopped going to school after the eighth grade. So I came into Alcoholics Anonymous with my eighth grade education and a willingness to pass the baskets and make the coffee. And so it was like I kind of came in here and I sort of had to go back and fill in these sort of deficits in my education, reading some of these books that you would have read in high school. Like I'd realized that different people I'd worked with had all read The Great Gatsby. And I'm like, well, what the hell is that? It's like I had a master's degree, and I'm like, what the hell is The Great Gatsby? And they're like, oh, it's this book that we all read. It was required reading. Oh, well, that's why that never happened. So I had to go back and sort of fill in these gaps as I went. And I remember it was in my first year of sobriety. I started to, all of a sudden, the cobweb started to sort of loosen up a little bit, and I could see a little bit of light came into my brain. And once it came in, I started reading my big book all the time. And I get into this thing, and then basically anything that's a 12 steps, anything, I started to read. And one day my sponsor looks at me and he says, you know, you might want to try reading some books that aren't blue also. And so I said, well, I don't know, you got any ideas? And so he loaned me a couple of books, and I started to, I got sober in an area where there were no young people. Well, I take that back, there were three of them. One of them I lied about sleeping with, and her friend saw me, so she wouldn't be my friend. That happened when I had 30 days. And her best friend would therefore not be my friend, and then the other one ended up being my first AA stalker. So my young people's experience wasn't, you know, it was an icky paw. But so I end up, so instead I would, you could smoke at Denny's then. I don't know where some of you guys are. You might be able to do that now. But so I would go in the middle of the night and I would smoke at Denny's and I'd read books. You know, it's like because I was 18 and I didn't know what the hell else to do. You know, I would hang out at my sponsor's house. You know, he'd get off work. I'd wait until he got off work. I was going through this halfway house and then this Oxford house and all this stuff. and then I'd just wait until he got off work and I'd go over to his house and he'd just let me sit there. I mean, he'd come in one day and I'm shaving my head in the middle of his living room. You know, I mean, just he put up with it. But I thank him for that, you know, because he gave me a place to be. And then, I mean, he would go to bed because he was a productive member of society, unlike I was. And then so I would go to Denny's and I would drink because they keep refilling your coffee. they just they never stop and and as long as yeah I don't have an off switch so as long as you bring me something I will continue to consume it whether I'm sober or not and so there was so I actually got a job at an espresso shop during this time and there were a couple times that I almost turned in my sobriety chips over the espresso and I had to sit down and talk to my sponsor about how much I was drinking because people would they figured this out at work and they screw up a drink and they pour the espresso in there It has nothing to do with my schooling experience though But so, you know, it was, you know, I took care of some sort of, you know, in the beginning I didn't worry about school. I know sometimes it's like there was, there's this sort of pressure, especially from families and stuff like that. It's like, you know, okay, you've been sober for 22 minutes, now go graduate. It's like, I'm trying to sort some shit out here, like, you know, not drinking on Tuesdays. And so, you know, I just, I was like, you know, I didn't worry about any of that stuff. And maybe that was easier for me because it wasn't like I walked in here, you know, with a glowing academic background that, you know, I mean, there was a little potential, I suppose, but, you know, people were just really happy I wasn't carrying a gun anymore. They weren't tripping on whether or not I was carrying a diploma anymore. So it was really I spent the first few years just building a foundation in Alcoholics Anonymous. I was just building a foundation. I mean, I was doing silly things like go to 90 meetings in 90 days. I was getting commitments in a home group. I was sort of doing these things and making those my priority. and you know I mean I when I was 18 I was walking I was a I had been awarded the court and I was walking out of foster care so there was no you know there's like there's no like family support or anything like that anyway so let alone family pressure you know it's not like I you know there was no like college fund or anything like that it was like you're if you're going to do this you're going to do this because you're doing it and um you know it was some of the challenge I I I faced a lot of challenges in getting through school. I did the seven-year community college plan. It was not easy to get through there. You know, I would go a year where, you know, like I would buy these cars that were like $300 and $400 because it was all I could sort of scrape together at the time. I had this one gray beast. I don't even know what kind of car it was, but it had duct tape. Like when I bought it, it had duct tape on the roof of it. And, like, that's how I'm, like, you know, trying to get there every time. And, you know, there were other semesters where I, you know, I would get my classes paid for and then I couldn't afford my books. You know, I remember when I signed up for classes, I had to, like, write my papers at the library because I didn't have a computer. You know, I was like, this was sort of the stuff. And I'm working full time through all this. You know, that's the only way that this is going to happen. I had to take, I remember I had, I worked midnight to 8 a.m. on Friday nights. So like Friday night, I'd go in at midnight. And then I would go back in at 4 o'clock on Saturday and work till midnight. And then I'd go back in at 8 a.m. on Sunday so that I could get three shifts in on the weekend so that I would only have to do two during the week so I could make my classes. And I just, you know, one semester the bus stopped running to my campus. You know, like I'm midway through class, I'm like dropping another semester, you know, because I just couldn't get home. And at first I'm walking two or three miles to get to a way so that I can get home. And then I got into a car accident, and I screwed my back all up in this car accident. So it was like, pfft. It felt like there were some times where it just felt like I couldn't win. And I would talk to these different people, and I was like, if nothing else, the thing that inspired me was that I did not want idiots to be my boss for the rest of my life. I mean, if nothing else, there are stupid people that will tell you what to do for the rest of your life if you don't go do something about it. And I'm just, I have way too much ego and arrogance and pride and these defects of character that will ever allow me to do that. And so I just, it was all the motivation that I needed to get in there and just make it work. And, you know, so I kept going with it, and I did pretty well. You know, I started doing pretty well at school. And, you know, I get through some of that, and I end up enrolling in one that's set up more for working adults. I finished my undergraduate in human services also. And it was kind of cool. My school symbol was an upside-down triangle in a circle. You know, I guess they were started by the YMCA. And so it was like that whole sort of they had the same symbol as the YMCA. and, you know, really? So, you know, when I was 14 years old being kicked out of my high school, you know, my vice principal is sitting there, you know, because the vice principals are like the bad cop at these things, And he's looking at me and he's telling me that I'm, you know, he told me, you know, you're going to prison. That's it. There's nothing else. There's nothing we can do for you here. All you are is a poison pill on my campus. And good riddance. You know, good riddance. And right now I'm on my undergraduate college's website as a distinguished alumni. you know like they put up a website you know like a web page to to say this is what happens and and you know what my story's on there not that i don't say that i'm in aa but you know it says you know i was a you know i was a screw up and all that kind of stuff and uh i just kind of roll with it you know that works in my profession it doesn't work in all professions but it does in mine and that's fine um you know you've got to kind of take that for what it is for your own and apply where it fits, but, you know, it's on there, and it's out there, and it's working just fine, and, you know, I ended up, you know, I had to ask more experienced AA members that had done some of the things I'd done, whether the debt was going to be worth it, you know, and, you know, all these student loans. I went to graduate school. I, you know, I did a master's degree, you know, it's like, how am I going to sort this out, and I have a friend that's a pharmacist that got sober when He was 17. You know, he got his doctorate at USC. I mean, it was just like, I mean, the guy had probably a million dollars in debt, way more than I did. And, you know, so I sat down with him in our men's group, and I started asking him, what do we do with this? You know, what do I do with this? And he reassures me, and he reassures me that it's always going to be worth it. And then, you know, in graduate school, my psychopharmacology professor, after 10 years, quits a week before the class. And they come in, they say, we don't know what we're going to do. And I say, I know. and so my buddy comes in and he's the professor you know so so my psychopharmacology guy professor is my my friend in a.a you know who's uh coming in and it was his opportunity to become a professor and that was what he wanted too so you know by helping me he got helped out a little bit and um you know i you know following all that i had to go through this licensing stuff and everything else And, you know, all while doing this, you know, there's I'm going to meetings. I'm a GSR three times during that. I'm a DCM during that. I'm on a young people's committee during that, you know, hosting a state conference during that. I mean, it's like Alcoholics Anonymous is my foundation throughout because that was what the focus was in the beginning of all this. And that's what the focus is as we go through all the as I go through all this stuff. that was where I learned how to complete assignments. I learned how to complete assignments by completing them in AA. Of course I'm going to go back there. And I think that there's an appreciation that a lot of people around here don't necessarily have for what we're doing because AA really, I mean, when you just look at the time period spent to be a good AA, we have an additional part-time job, just the hours spent. We have an additional part-time job that the other students don't have. And it is taxing, and it's really hard to get through this stuff. And it's really hard to deal with the stress. And there were a lot of nights where, you know what, I didn't want to get drunk because I wanted to get oblivious. I just wanted to take the edge off the stress. And I was 10 years sober, and I wanted to just smoke a little pot at night. That was the thing I wanted. That was where my alcoholism hit out. was just two hits, two hits at the end of the night, just so that I can freaking sleep, just so that I can stop thinking about the homework, you know, because I was just dying with it, just dying with it, you know. And, you know, some of the things my sponsor had been through graduate school, and he would say things like, you know, there are going to be people that haven't done this that don't understand, but there's a big difference between going to one meeting a week and going to none meetings a week. See, there's a huge difference between being active in one home group a week. You know, you've got a lot of years sober. Your foundation is built. Stay active in one group. And other than that, keep your service commitments up. But don't stop going to that meeting. Don't not be involved in that meeting because of this, because you're going to die if you do. This is a lot of years sober. He's telling me this stuff because I was a kid. you know it's like I we end up with in young people's we end up with time sober before we end up with any life experience we don't know what the hell we're doing we've got time sober and we start becoming old timers we don't know what the hell we're doing with life yet and you know I've got to have I've really it's really been important for me to have this sponsor that you know now he's 40 years sober now damn near and got sober when he was 21 and you know did college and did graduate school you know and did young people's chair to young people's invention in 1983. Really? Really, dude? You know, he does not look like somebody I'd identify with, but he sure is. She knows my sponsor. No, he's a beady little chubby man. And he's old and he talks like a Star Trek nerd. Except he's usually talking about AA that way. He goes to archives conventions. Oh, I'm serious. These guys are worse than the Trekkies. They get together with little letters written by Oxford group members and go hide in hotel rooms to show each other. I mean, it's because they don't want the masses to know they have it. Oh, they're bad. They're bad. But I really want to thank the host committee. I've had a good time. My first Young People's Meeting ever in 1996 was in St. Louis. I got, in 96, when I was 60 days sober, somebody did the real first step with me, which isn't on our wall, which is shut up and get in the car. And somebody told me to shut up and get in the car, and I ended up here when Narconics Anonymous held a world convention in St. Louis in 96. And they don't do Young People's over there. Their WSO isn't fond of the idea of Young People's, and they have their feelings about it. And so by word of mouth, we started a young people's meeting there. And so that was my first young people's meeting. It was under the arch right there. I got to lead it. There were 100 people in there. So this is the first time I've been here since. So this has been really neat for me to be here for an icky pause. So thanks a lot, guys. Dude, thank you, guys. Thank you so much. I think, like, listening to you, I'm reminded of when I got in Alcoholics Anonymous. And just listening to people that were doing this, and were getting sober and were carrying on their lives was just really powerful for me. And so to hear that and be reminded of that, I'm really grateful for the work that you did to get through it so that you could teach people like me how to get through it as well. So thank you so much. Please stick around and say thanks to the panelists. We're really grateful that you guys came here and were so generous with your stories and your time. So how do we close this thing? Thank you for listening. I hope you enjoyed the podcast. Sobercast is ad-free and we'd like your help in order to keep it that way. So if you'd like to help us be self-supporting by pledging a dollar to a month, visit Sobercast.com and look for the donate links. Thank you very much.