Boz St. John of RHOBH on Bravo, Career, Friendships and Love

Heather McDonald has got the Juicy Scoop. When you're on the road, when you're on the go. Juicy Scoop is the show to know she talks Hollywood tales. Her real life Mr. Sakeman serial data and serial sister. You'll be addicted and addicted fast to the number one tabloid real life podcast. Listen in, listen up. Woo woo. Hannah McDonald. Juicy Scoop. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. You guys get excited. I have the real housewife, the mother, the fashionista, the, I mean, glamour girl, funny entrepreneur, gives great advice, good friend, the one and only Bose St. John. Yay! Welcome to Juicy Scoop. Thank you so much. I'm very glad to be here. I'm so glad you're here. You're wearing a very sexy outfit. You think it's sexy? Yeah, I think it's great. I think it's a great, it's a leather strapless jumpsuit. Yes, and it's, you know, burgundy or X blood. I love it. I like the color. I like your hair. You have a lot of like long glam hair going. Oh girl. That's one thing. I love some hair and I love a tight outfit. I, I mean, you, I don't, I was like, how much do you have to pack? How much, how many suitcases did you have for Italy? So now here's the thing. Oh, by the way, you guys, this is, she's on Real House's Beverly Hills, among the other things. I don't even think I said that in the intro. I don't think you said that either. That's fine. We were just going to get into it. We have a whole other life. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Too many things to talk about. Yeah. So for a majority of my adult life in business and my career, I was running in and out of airports, meetings, countries, blah, blah, and you can't be without like some luggage, right? You can't use luggage. You can't wait for baggage claim. And so I perfected the art of only packing carry-ons for a long time. And that's with like suits and gowns and three different shoes and hair things and all that stuff. And how would you carry it? Would you just keep it all in like a black and white theme of clothes so like everything goes together? No, no, actually I wouldn't. I would, I would pack per the occasion. Right. Everybody knows I love color. I love like outrageous outfits. And I did that in my corporate life too, by the way, there's not just like a TV thing. And actually I think I might have done a video once about like how I pack because people are always curious about that. Because I show up and I have. What's the secret? Okay, well, there's two big secrets. The biggest thing I hate about travel and doing stand up and everything is packing, editing. And there's something about when I go on a trip, it's almost like I like to order for a table and I get very satisfied when everyone is satisfied and there's like not all there's barely any food left over. I love when I go on a trip and I'm like, oh my God, I wore everything but two things. There's something about like and but after all these years, I still suck at it. Well, I think there's one big secret which will make people nervous, which is that you can only pack for each occasion. Like there's no extras actually. And that makes people nervous because like, oh, what if a strap breaks or like. What changed my mind? No, you got to decide. I'm like, no, you decide. So that you pack the one thing for the one event and then the one thing for the one dinner. And, you know, like you just pack enough for the time you're going to be gone. No extras, no backups, no ifs. Oh, what if I feel differently when I get there? I don't do that. Yeah, I pack. And so now I do that. So for Italy, I packed for everything that I knew we were going to do. Yeah, no extras. I also feel like I've not done that much European travel when we went away a couple of years ago. And I was like, why did I bring so much stuff when I could have bought like this cheap little yellow dresses, which would have been totally cute for a night out. I was doing that feeling like, oh, I need this many dresses for this many nights out. Right. I could have definitely packed less. Yeah, yeah. I just bought a few things. It's like, I mean, and also look, I'm a very calendar person also. Yeah. So it's like, I know it's like, OK, look, we're going to go to dinner at this restaurant. It's outside. It's rooftop. It's inside. It might be cold. But I think as I've already understood what's going to happen. So I'm going to pack for that thing. So you don't use the stylist or you do? I do sometimes, but most of the time I style myself. Yeah. Yeah. And so, OK, let's start a little bit with your background. Like what was your childhood briefly like and then going to university? Like where was that all? OK, so my parents originally from Ghana in West Africa. My dad came to the US on a Fulbright scholarship. Like really won in a hundred million chances because he didn't go to middle school or high school. Didn't go to regular college and he joined the Navy when he was 18. He was orphaned quite young. The Navy in America. The Navy in Ghana. Oh. Yes. But he's a savant, a musical savant. And so he got into the naval band and was playing the clarinet, which he taught himself. And he was playing for an American delegation. And one of the diplomats was like, wow, you're so talented. He was first chair and he's like, you're so talented. Like, you know, where did you learn to play? And my dad was kind of like, eh, nowhere. And he was like, oh, you should come to America and like study music. And my dad was like, what do you even mean? And so he told him to apply for the Fulbright, which is a very difficult scholarship to get. And so my dad applied and came to the US and earned two PhDs. And when he came, was he single or was he single when he came and then had, but he, you know, through friends and family and he was hooked up with my mother. Okay. And so they decided to get married and she moved to the US with him. But my dad is a Pan-Africanist. Like he really loves the continent. And so when he was here for school, he knew he wants to go back. A lot of times what happens to immigrants is they come to the US, the UK, Canada, wherever and they stay. You know, they're just like, okay, I've made it. So I'm staying here. My dad was like, no, I don't think so. I was born six months before he graduated with a second PhD. Oh, wow. And we went right back to Ghana. Oh, you did? Yeah. And so my dad, so even though I was born in the US, I do consider myself bicultural because a lot of my formative years were spent on the continent of Africa. And then we finally moved to Colorado Springs, Colorado when I was 12. So from six months to 12, you were. Yeah. We moved around. We were in Nairobi, Kenya for a while. So you speak other languages? Yes, yes. Of course. Yeah. My parents are multilingual. I speak two. Okay. And so, well, three, technically. What are the three? They're Ghanaian languages, Tri and Fanti. Oh, wow. Yeah. And my mother only, she does not speak to me in English. Oh, really? Yeah. Which is hilarious because when I was 12, I mean, they also, by the way, have always been like African-African. So even in Colorado Springs, like my little white girl, friends would come over there and my mom would be like, she'd just speak to them as if they were her children. Right. You know, she would not speak them in English and expect them to respond to her. And she would feed them hot pepper soup and like all kinds of, you know, Ghanaian dishes. One of my friends, one of my best friends who actually made an appearance on The Real Housewives, named Summer. Summer and I became like instant friends when we were like 14. And Summer is exactly what her name sounds like. Yeah. You know, she's blond, she's got green eyes, she's tall, she was pretty. We're both on cheerleading together. You know, just swim her. Like Summer is Summer. And her favorite dish is still one of my mother's Ghanaian dishes. And when she comes to visit. I mean, hot pepper soup does something good to me. Oh my God, it's delicious. I like the stuff I've had. It's delicious. And so were you guys religious? Do you belong to any church? Yes. Well, my parents, this is such a complicated story. But my parents believed in native religions for most of their adult lives. But in the early 80s, there was a coup of the political government in Ghana. My dad was serving in the government at the time, was a minister. And they, the government that took over or the people who were through the government put all of the ministers in jail, in prison, political detention. Oh my God. In fact, this was like the blip when we came to the US before we moved formally, was that my mom left the country with me, my three, my two younger sisters, and she was pregnant with my last sister. And we came to Washington, DC on political asylum. Oh, wow. And so in prison, this is my dad's like famous story. He says he prayed to God. He was like, look, if you get me out of this prison, because they were killing everybody. You're like, if you get me out of this prison and I can reunite with my family, I will become a Christian. Wow. Somehow he was released. He came to the US. We all reunited in DC and he was like, we are now Christians. That's amazing. That's how I became a Christian. Oh, I love that. That's so interesting. I did not understand all of that backstory. So I'm glad you shared it. So actually, I don't think I've ever shared that before anywhere. Oh, good. I'm glad. My audience will love that, honestly, because it's like that's so beautiful and interesting. And, you know, when you're not an immigrant, like I'm not an immigrant, but I have such great respect. My husband's dad came from like escaped Czechoslovakia, like World War II and all that. And their stories just are like, and the first time I went to his Thanksgiving and they all did this. Circle thing as and thinking being American. And I was kind of like, oh my God, we just used to watch like football and like, and eat. I'm like, oh my God. So then after that, they were like the teenagers that were like, they're like, we're done doing the circle. And I was like, the circle. Yeah. So it's like, it's really beautiful. Yeah. I think about that a lot. So I want to know, so here you are, this corporate woman. You've done all these amazing things. When you were married to your, your husband. Yes. Now he has passed. Yes. And but were you guys together when he passed or you were separated when he passed? Oh, so what happened is that we got married in 2003 and he wanted a family right away. I really didn't. I was on the corporate track and I was a hot shot and I was like, absolutely not. So he's going to slow me down. And so we agree that we wait five years. Okay. Into our marriage to try and have a family. Well, five years comes and I'm like, how about another six years? And he's like, absolutely not. So I got pregnant and unfortunately I got very ill during my pregnancy, developed severe preeclampsia and my daughter passed away on the day she was born. It was, see, it's still hard for me to articulate, but it was maybe one of the most devastating things I've ever experienced. I honestly can't imagine when that's when I've heard people say that because, you know, you go through the entire thing. Oh my God, the anticipation. And what, and then what do people say? And I mean, just the whole thing of it is just. Oh my God. So sorry. It's so, so terrible. And I feel like that might have been the first factor, you know, in our relationship was Eve's death because while he didn't blame me, I felt like he blamed me. And I think that was, I think I made that up. You know, Well, I mean, the passing of a child. You feel all kind of guilt. That is like one of the biggest things. Very few, very few marriages can survive that. Whether it's the accident or the child is ill or something. I now understand that. Yeah. But at the time all you have is your grief. Yeah. You know, and I also was in a, I think as a part of my grief, I was so desperate to become a mother after having argued for years that I didn't want to have a kid. Now you had experienced motherhood. Because now I had experienced motherhood and I was like, no, no, no, no, no, like I must do it. So I got pregnant three months after Eve had died and I was miserable. The entire pregnancy one, because I got sick again and I was terrified. Two, because I had blamed myself and blamed my body for betraying me. And so I wanted to do everything right. Then I went on bed rest at six months pregnant, couldn't go to work, could, you know, feet up like actual bed rest. I had a friend that had to do that with her twins and she said that she did things like what they say that you should do if you're like a prisoner of war. Yeah. Like you're supposed to have like a scheduled thing. Like I'm going to, I'm going to do this for two hours, read a book for two hours. Then I watch one TV show. Then I talk to someone on the phone from three to four because it is so hard, especially for, and she was a corporate woman too. So it's like really hard for like, yeah. On top of it, like, I actually liked that analogy a lot. I hadn't thought of that. Yeah. It's like, you know, the combined like boredom and fear and just irritation and then your body feels gross. Like everything was awful. Yeah. And so I was not a very happy pregnant person and Peter was also extra vigilant is what I would call it. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like don't eat that. You know, like, don't you think you should sleep a little bit more? Like, you know, maybe we should stand up. No, no, the doctors said I shouldn't stand up. No, stand up for a minute. You just been sitting all day. You know, so we were doing that. And so on top of the grief of losing Eve, now we're in this like high stress pregnancy together. Right. Then Laela is born and she's a preemie. And so she's in the NICU for like six weeks. Okay. And we're both insane. I am sitting at the, like by her bedside or by her incubator from the time I give birth on this hard ass wooden chair, by the way, Peter has to go back to work. And so he was in advertising also. So he has to go back to work. And so I'm sitting there for 12 hours a day. He comes for two hours. You know, you know, did she come out the incubator today? How much did she eat? If, you know, we were just, so a year after she was born. We separated. And I was like, I can't, I can't do this. Like I don't, I don't want to be in this relationship anymore. But I didn't have the courage to say I wanted a divorce. I wanted him to come to their realization. So he, but he did move out. He did move out. And then I was trying to get him to say like, I wanted him to initiate the divorce. So I'm like, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to be in a relationship. Okay. Okay. I'm going to get a boyfriend. I think you should get a girlfriend. And he's like, no, absolutely not. I'm like, no, but that's what we should do because we, let's test it out. Let's see if we like other people, then we know we shouldn't be together. If maybe we don't like other people, then we get back together. He says, no, no, no. Until I go over there one day to his apartment to drop off layout and I see an ugly ass pair of shoes with a long toe woman. I'm like, who the hell shoes with this? And I was pissed. But did you have your boyfriend? I sure did. Okay. I was a total double standard. Oh yeah. I had my boyfriend and he knew about him. And then I go over there and I'm like, wait, so you have a girlfriend? Or like, what the hell's going on? Well, Peter gets sick probably about four months after the discovery of this girlfriend. And by the way, I was trying to work on my own emotions around this thing. And I was actually pretty happy to be like a sister wife. You know, she and I were getting along like, you know, she had to- She was good with your daughter. She was great with my daughter. She would, you know, take him to the doctor. And what was his illness? He had Birkis lymphoma, a cancer. And at first we thought treatable. Treatable. You know, it's not, you can't operate on it, but radiation and chemo maybe could get rid of it. And we went on like that for probably three months or four months where we were sharing, we were on a group text together, you know, the whole thing. And then came his terminal diagnosis. And that's when I was like, oh no. No, she got to go. And I can't do this. I'm going to be here. If we're going to face death, we're going to do it together. And nobody else is going to be here but us. And he was very happy with that because he'd been trying to get us back together anyway. This episode of GCSC is sponsored by Jones Road Beauty. You guys know how much I've been talking about, how much I love Jones Road Beauty miracle balm. I mean, I'm telling you on the days that I am not wearing makeup, I put that on, I look like I just had a facial and look young and gorgeous. Yes, I do because people tell me. But now I want to tell you they have a new product that I absolutely love. It's their foundation stick. This is Skincare Forward Foundation. It delivers buildable, real coverage while feeling completely weightless on your skin. It gives you meaningful coverage without ever looking cakey or heavy, which I know foundation sticks can do that. This will not. It's available in 30 shades to match a wide range of skin tones. If you want makeup that brings out your natural glow instead of hiding it, Jones Road is the way to go. 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I've been using it for well over a year or two now and my hair has got the bounce back. It looks great. It's shiny. This is all my own hair and thanks to Nutrifold. Whether you're gifting to yourself or a loved one, take hair growth off the to-do list for a limited time. Nutrifold is offering 25% off the fullest hair kit that supplements plus their hair serum duo and free self care gifts when you visit Nutrifold.com. That's Nutrifold.com spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L.com. Now in hindsight, I was for sure too harsh on her. Have you ever kept in touch with her after his passing? No, no. She came to his funeral, but I think I was in too dark of a place to recognize at that time that I've been too harsh with her. Was she like your age? Was she your type? Did he have a type or was she totally different from you? She was totally different. This girl was freaking a yoga instructor or some shit, crunchy and all the things. I've been a glam girl my whole life. She was very different from me, but I liked her well enough. I thought she was a reasonably wonderful person. She took good care of him. I think my compounding grief, the unfairness of it, everything was just too much. I needed space and I wanted to reconcile our family. I felt guilty. There was just a lot going on. He passed what year? In 2013. Then you're now the single, you're a widow, you're a single mom, you're doing all your things. You're still working full-time corporate executive at these jobs. What was your relationship with reality TV? Did you watch it? Were you a fan? Oh yeah. I love TV. I have always loved TV. I think part of it came from when I was 12 and we moved to the US because part of what I call the education of it was I had to learn pop culture. Oh my God, that's all you got to do. Watch some TV. You know what I mean? Watch MTV. You watch the sitcoms, music videos. You'll learn about fashion, you'll learn about culture, you'll learn about athletes. Watch the games. Girl, I was stuck to my TV. I knew everything. I know everything about every TV show, reality show. So you had watched Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. Oh for sure. Yeah. So then how did they cast and come about then? Oh, well that was a very weird story because apparently they had been trying to get to me for a number of years but I was a top executive at big companies. There was no way I would have had time to do the show. Had they reached out and you said no or someone said there's no way? No. Somebody on my behalf said no. And I don't know who that was or how that was. I don't know. How do you feel about that? I actually feel okay. When you're at that level, you get protected from a lot because it's overwhelming. I wonder if the person who was almost like who the person was, you might know who they are or not but it was like, well, yeah, because we don't want to lose you. So we don't want to lose you. But the thing is that I couldn't have done it. I don't think they said no not knowing what I would have said. Okay. And it was the right call because I would have said no. At that time. Okay, that they said no then. But the time when I got the email about this opportunity, I had already retired from my corporate life. Physically, mentally, emotionally, all of it. I had retired. I had published my book. I was trying to figure out what to do next. I wasn't sure if I wanted to go back to corporate because then my ego started to play tricks on me. Like now I'm without a title and I'm just sitting here. What do I do with the rest of my life? And financially, we very comfortable. Oh yeah. Okay. I'd done very well in all the companies. You're like I can chill for a while or start something totally new. But I'm not the kind to just sit around. So I was like, you know what? I think I'm going to start my own business. I've always loved hair. I was like, oh, let me go to China. I'll go to the biggest hair show in the world. I went by myself. I did all the research. I built a factory in Ghana. Like I was like doing all kinds of things to start my business. And then I get an email. You know, that says like, hey, we would like to talk to you. And Heather, I swear my hand to God, I thought they wanted me to be the CMO. I thought they wanted me to see them over like Bravo or something. So I went to the meeting thinking that's what we're going to talk about. Really? That's so funny. Because the email wasn't, now that I look back at the email wasn't clear, but I think they thought they were being clear. Right. But it wasn't clear to me because why would I think anybody want me to be a housewife? You know what I mean? And so I went like, oh, OK, great. So what's, you know, what's happening? Would it, you know, what are the plans? What's the objective, you know, the strategy of the network? They're that and they're answering the questions. But they're like, what the fuck is happening? Yeah, like, you know, they're kind of like, now I can see through their eyes. And they must have thought this is a weirdo. So that when did you realize? I realized when they said they wanted to come film me at my house with my family. And then did you do you? Yeah, I was just like, I was just like, oh, that's interesting. Because here's the thing, there are there have been other jobs, like, for instance, my job at Pepsi, you would have to go on route rides with the with the truck drivers, right, and go and see how the product is taken off the truck and put into a Walmart or whatever. You know what I mean? Or when I was at Uber, I drove Ubers, you know, to get to get a better understanding. Yeah. So when they said that, I swear to you, I thought, oh, OK, this is like more just like to really understand what these women go through. So I was kind of like, OK, great. But there was something in the back of my mind that I was like, this doesn't sound like they're trying. So then I just flat out asked, I was like, is this for like a the marketing job? Like, what job is this for? And they looked at me weird. It was like a literally who's on first conversation. They were literally like, we've been talking about you. Being a housewife. And I was like, is that what we're talking about? I was like, why? Why would you? Why would you want me? I kind of I was so confused. But then I was so fascinated because I was like, really? Because when they explained, I mean, look, there's so many different types of women, right? Right. But I think at the end of the day, you can categorize everybody into a big general bucket. But they didn't have a corporate executive outside of Gen Alliance in New York, right? And I think at the time, they thought that she had been successful, you know, in that in her role. And so they were like, we can do it again in Beverly Hills. And how about you? Yeah. So then I was like, oh, my God, but I respect and love Jenna. And so I was like, well, she did it. Let me let me see what this is about. And so then I was like, OK, let's try it. Go ahead. And, you know, I do think it's you're in a good position in that you had a girl. Most of the girls I've noticed, most of the daughters are more open to being on camera than the boys, because it's a little more awkward for the boys or they're like, what is this? That is a girly show. Right. Right. Right. So I thought that and she's beautiful and cute. And and the other thing is, you know, you maybe I don't in the very beginning, I don't know if you had dated or you just started to date your now fiance. Oh, yeah, I just started to date him. I think that's kind of, you know, even though it's called Housewife, and we want to see husbands, I do think there's like less of a risk when you're coming in without the husband that you've had for a while, where if the cameras had come with your first husband, we would have seen the bickering and all that stuff. Yes, yes, yes, yes, that's true. And, you know, before you get better, they would see the bickering and then that's exasperated. And then people are like, oh, my God, did you see what he said when he said you can't have a tuna fish sandwich? Whatever. Yes. So I think I've always think. But even now, even now, like, because I've been dating, I think we've been dating like six months or something like that. Yeah. And I was actually very surprised that he was open to being on the show. Yeah. But at that point, you know, we were deep in very committed conversations. You know, it's like, at that point, I think we both knew they're like, OK, this this is this is the thing, right? Right. And so when he was like, yeah, if you're going to do it, then I'll do it with you. Like, if that's what you want me to do. Now, it's like, really? Like, OK, you know, I guess. But what if there's because I already understood the pressure of what public life can do to a relationship. I was an ignorant of that. Right. And I also want to be careful because he's not necessarily somebody who is looking to be on camera, you know, it wasn't like he was like, oh, yeah, sign me up because I want to be a real house husband. You know, he wasn't that guy. And so I was like, OK, well, don't worry, because you'll sort of just, you know, you'll be in the back somewhere and every now and again, we'll talk about things. But what I was unaware of is how deeply I would go into the things that really do affect both of us, like our journey to have another child. Like, I mean, doing that, you know, not only are you having to, you know, share it with your close friends and family and maybe there's judgment there, like why are you going for this? Yes. With at your age, why are you going for this with a man that's not your husband yet? Yes. But the audience is weighing in. Oh, yeah. And that's what's so much pressure. Yeah. And there and listen, I mean, I enjoy the show and I like you a lot on it. I will be honest. I was like, I don't know that she should. Like, I should tell you not to have another kid. Right. I was like, well, you know, she is older and this guy, they're not married yet. I understand, but I understand the desire to want to do it one more time. Yes. So you want to do it at a stage in your life that you can have more time with that child. Well, you know what I mean? Like your lifestyle would allow you to, when you're a working mom, I was a working mom. So like I left the house every day and sometimes like, you know, my son was with me now and we were driving and I go, see, this is where I got up. Got off the freeway for Chelsea Lely every day and it was Olympic and bunny. And he's like, wow, that was far from our house in Woodland Hills. And I'm like, it was far, but I also knew you have that one chance. Yeah. And my kids are fine. It's like, they, you know, but the guilt and there is that desire that I'm like, oh my God, like just to go back and like do it again and maybe have a nanny, but not have to go to a nine to five every day or whatever. I understand that are very, very different. Right. So how did you guys come to the conclusion since you weren't engaged yet? Like I could see maybe wanting to do it, maybe completely on your own, but I also thought as such like a, you know, a woman that gives such great advice and marketing by there is a risk, you know, that now what, if you don't get along with him and now you have to share the child with him versus just being a single mother. All of that. And that's why I was so surprised when people were, or the audience was judgmental about me having those conversations before we said, I love you. Yeah. You know, like for me, I was like, oh no, look, I'm going to clear all of the really big things before I'm like, in too deep. Oh, that's a good one. I want to know because I'm too grown for this. Yeah. I'm not trying to fall in love and then find out that you don't want a kid or that you, you know, want seven. Yeah. I don't, I don't, I don't want to do that. Like I'm like, let's, let's talk, let's have all the hard conversations. And then we understand whether or not we're on the same page. By the way, not just about a kid, but like spiritually, emotionally, financially. Like I want to have every conversation. People just want to focus on like falling in love and like the butterflies and like all of the like sparkly stuff. And I'm like, no, the things that destroy you are those things. Right. When you're not on the same page, when you're not equally yoked, that's what actually destroys a marriage. Not whether or not somebody falls out of love. You've been married a long time, right? Yeah. You, you know, look, the love is not just about the butterflies. Yeah. The love is the commitment every day to being like, I'm with this person. And the friendship and like, I like to do fun. Like, can you still talk about fun things? Talk to this person. Are they your closest friend? Are they, are you intimate? Not just physically, but emotionally and spiritually with this person. Like, are they going to care for you? And that's what I wanted to understand. If we were on the same page about a number of things and also, and this is the part where my emotions do play a part, which is that I always wanted more children. But I was too afraid. You know, I'd had such terrible. You mean after your daughter, after my after my after your, after your first husband passed, yes, you thought about, did you think about it? I thought about it. Doing it on your own. Girl, I thought about it. And I was too afraid. You know, I was like, first of all, I don't want to put my health at risk. But yet I hadn't talked to any doctors. Yeah. Yeah. I was just over here diagnosing myself. Right. I was like, I don't want to do it without a partner. It's really hard to be a single mom. Yeah. I don't know. I'm barely surviving doing the one. I don't know if I can do it with two or three. So I didn't, I didn't freeze my eggs. I didn't do anything. Right. You know, and now in hindsight, I wish I would have. I wish I would have just moved on the desire, knowing that like, okay, well, let me just give myself a chance. Yeah. You know, instead of putting it to bed before I even, you know. Where are you with it now? Oh, well, right now. So my doctors are amazing. And they've. And why did you choose a doctor in Las Vegas? Because she's a black woman who is one of the leading specialists in fertility. Okay. You know, black maternal health is, is a very scary stat. Yes. More black women die. I know that's horrible. Like I can't believe that that's kind of finally come to the forefront of like, I never was aware of that. That's absolutely horrific. It's like, it's like two times the number. That is insane. It's insane. And so sad. And horrible and terrifying. So I'm like, look, I already risked my life one time. I'm not trying to do it again. So Dr. Cindy is a Dr. Cindy Duke. Um, is wonderful. And so she put me through the battery because, you know, she was like, look, you are healthy enough to carry a child. She's like, I'm 49. I'm almost 50. Um, she's like, you could probably carry baby till you're 56. And I'm like, I don't believe you. Like, what are you talking about? Girl, when I tell you, I've been to every specialist, like my cardiologist, the like every, everybody done all the blood work, everything to make sure that I'm okay. Um, psychologically, it's a different story. You know, I've obviously had a lot of therapy to manage my grief and all the things, but I hadn't dealt with this in particular, you know, in that like, I've dealt with the grief of losing Eve, I've dealt with the grief of losing my husband. I've dealt with the scariness of getting into another relationship. Like I've done those things. I hadn't yet tackled the having another baby grief and scare. Um, and so I needed to do that work. Uh, but at the same time, I was like, well, let me just go ahead and, you know, get, do my five boys surgery, which I did on the show. Right. Uh, let me go ahead and get these eggs retrieved. And there's a lot of stress and, you know, it's a, I'll do respect to the people who go through IVF because that joint is not easy. My sister had to do it. Yeah. Oh my God. But she was successful. Oh, well, I'm so glad. Yeah. Yeah. Cause it was a long time ago. They were like 20, you know, he's 22 now. And then she got pregnant naturally after. Is not wild. It's crazy friend, by the way, she went through IVF. We're the same age. Yeah. And, uh, so naturally it's two toddlers. Yeah. So that's why I'm just like, bitches, I could do it. They're gonna look at my girl. She did it. You know, she went through IVF and then got pregnant naturally. Crazy. Um, but anyway, very long story short, uh, I have, I've decided to take a break for a moment. We're going to get through our weddings and then we're going to pick it up again. Um, I'm not sure if I will. You know, go through retrieval again, but there are other options. There's egg donors. Yeah. A number of things. Surrogates, there's, you know, cause I'm not even sure necessarily that I want to carry the baby. Right. So we'll see. Yeah. I mean, why not do it? Just do the safest thing for you. Yeah. This episode of juicy scoop is sponsored by ladder. Let's be honest. You're so proud of yourself. You get in your outfit, you go to the gym and then you're walking around and you really don't know where to start, how much to do. And then maybe you go back and do the exact same thing again. Are you really doing what's right for your body? That is why I love ladder. Ladder is an expert strength training plan, not a content library. These aren't influencer workouts or challenges. 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Stays with you forever and Disney Plus is where you'll find your next great story from the return of the award-winning hit series, Rivals. Welcome to the naughtiest show on television to the unmissable crime drama High Potential. Gotta dead body, gotta go. A lifetime of great stories awaits this spring on Disney Plus 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. And so we so getting to, um, OK, so we're on the reunion. And by the way, I'm not just saying this because you're here because I put this under some comment. Oh, yeah. I saw everyone's dress. I was like, this is the best dress. Oh, thank you. And the best for you and your body and your coloring and your shape. Yes. And the gold earrings. It was stunning. So I appreciate that. And then, um, I know it was heavy. You probably felt it in your abs the next day, huh? When you were having arms even like there was the sound guy had to mic me and had, you know, it's simple. You just put your arm up in these maneuver. And dude, it was like 10 seconds. I was like, hey, hey, hey, how quickly can we get this done? Because I was like, can somebody hold my hand? Yeah, it was it was a very, very heavy dress. But my the designer I work with in Ghana is a complete like, you know, I think if she could make like, like we're just perfectly matched because she is a very understated person, but an extravagant designer. So I just let her loose. She would do absolutely craziness. And this was a crazy amount of stunning. And she flew the dress, you know, from Ghana. Oh my gosh. Like amazing. And so here you guys all are. Yeah. And I love Jennifer Tillies. I thought that was so. Is this fantastic? I thought it was so fun. I'll be honest, I said I liked yours and Jennifer Tillies. Yeah. I think that's all I said. Sutton looked really good, though. I thought Sutton looked the best. She's looked really pretty. That was pretty. Yeah. But if I'm just. Listen, I've watched this for a long time and it's I don't I think you're sitting on the couch. Yes. So you have to make sure that a. You don't have a pooch. Yeah. That you're not wearing a such a challenging kind of silkiness that it gets wrinkly. Right. So I do think tight bodice beading works really actually really well. It's uncomfortable, but I think that's the way to go structure for a reunion look. Okay. So let's get into it. The show. Yes. Basically this season, you know, it was really derate feeling that, you know, she's being criticized and whatnot. And PK just did an interview that came out. Right. And I listened to most of it and he comes off, you know, he's a nice, likable guy comes off, you know, humble, tells about his life. Yeah. But when he kind of said like, well, I wish you wouldn't have done it so publicly. Here's the thing. If you're on a reality show and you're being real, any woman going through a divorce, especially one that takes more than one season of a TV show. Yeah. Most don't. You are going to vent to your girlfriends. Absolutely. So if she was to not share her feelings and frustrations, then she would not be doing her job and she wouldn't be criticized for that. Yeah. Right. Exactly. And it's like, you're getting divorced for a reason. Yeah. You know, I actually had Natalie on. Oh, yeah. And I, and you know, I was like, I want to know like what, how is it to be like the basically in it, but not really in it, you know, and, and she was very interesting. And she just said, you know, I'm like, how's your divorce? She's like, it's fine, but we're getting divorced. Like we're not getting married. I mean, nobody has, and I kind of thought when she said, when Dari said to Kyle, like, I hope that it's nice forever. But this interesting situation you have with Mariso and I get why no one wants to bite the bullet, multiple homes, kids, all this. And also just like who wants to even clean out a drawer, let alone move and split shit and split businesses and multiple homes. I get all that. So I think, but I also think Kyle was trying to, you know, was also being nice. But I think, yeah, in the end, you got to choose your girlfriend. Yes, you do. You really do. Yeah. And that's where I found myself in a conundrum. Yes. Right. Because I believe multiple things can be true at one time. And Dorit and I, even though, you know, you didn't see a lot of it, we got into quite a bit of conflict over it. Yeah, because I would defend Kyle. That's right. Yeah. You know, I would say like she cares about you. Yeah. And Dorit doesn't believe it. Yeah. But I was like, Hey, look, there are certain things that she's doing that to me prove that she cares. I agree to. She may not be right. Yeah. Because like I don't hold the same opinion with Kyle about whether or not Dorit should talk about PK. I think she should. I think she should do whatever the hell she wants to do. She's a grown woman. Let her talk if she wants to. Kyle does not believe that, but doesn't mean that I don't think she cares about Dorit. No. And then Dorit had a good point when she's like, you said I was being erratic darling baby, you said I was being erratic. And I'm like, well, again, Kyle is doing her job. Yeah. We've all been with girlfriends and we do talk behind each other's backs. It doesn't mean it's malicious. Right. It means, okay, hey, right. Right. Are you getting the feeling that she's just should not be like rolling like this and talking and spending this kind of. So I'm like, yeah, she's being honest too. You would have said that. Yeah. You would have. And also like I felt that like, and I think I said this, I don't know if it made it or not. Yeah. So you tell me if it did. But I said, you know, Kyle and I friend differently. Yeah. Right. Which is also okay. Like that we don't have to be the same type of friend. I kind of love that expression. Have you ever said that before? I've never said that before. We friend differently is like very, it's kind of genius. Okay. Well, that's good. Let's keep that. Yeah. It's very interesting. Because it's true. And you know, and, and you should have a different kind of friend. Yeah. And I've said this for like years because I'm like, women, you know, will be so supportive, kick him to the curb. Dad, I hear done with him. Yeah. Get rid of your husband and who was your dad of your three kids. Fuck him. But then you're like, I can't believe that you and Jenny aren't friends anymore. What the fuck is going like? Sometimes friendships are like a marriage without the sex. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. And sometimes it can't last forever. Oh my God. For sure. Sometimes it has seasons and it has breakups. Sometimes it ends. And it can't. And you can't just like a couple that can't get back to regularly having sex and being loving sometimes a friendship that's so close on the phone five times a day, right, has a break and they can get back to a place, but it's not ever going to be the place of the constant calling every time I got in the car type of friend, you know, right. And that's what I really, I think at the end of the day, what I would love for them is just peace. Yeah. You know, civility. It's like you won't get back to where you were. Okay. Yeah. And by the way, I called it during my first season. I think we were like two weeks in when I was just like, oh, y'all don't trust each other. That's what's going on here. And then somebody pulled me to the side and was just like, you kind of got to let them talk. I was like, oh, okay, let me just let me relax. Let me not die. It was. Was that weird? Oh, it was so strange. Because I feel like with Natalie, it was like, because she really wasn't part of it and she like came later in the season. Yeah. If you were at a dinner party where you didn't know anybody and that's her personality to kind of sit back. Yeah. But you're a little bit like me and I would be jumping right in there. I would be jumping right in. In the middle. And they'd be like, hold on, baby. Wait till you learn more. You don't know anything. Sit down. But you're like, okay. But like, yeah. But also I've had 25 years of having to mediate quickly. Right. You know what I mean? Like that's what I do for a living. Like I, you know, you can't have conflict in the workplace because when you do, it costs money. Yeah. And so I am very practiced. However, in this situation, I had to learn to just sit back and be like, okay, let them figure it out for themselves. Right. Let them argue. Let them figure out their differences. And then. What's really interesting and sad is they weren't just two girlfriends that met on a TV show. They had a fun for some. Yes. The with the husband. With the husbands. And like there, that one scene that they laughed at, you know, Erica's ex husband, Tom Gerardi, are they divorced? I don't think they're divorced. Well, and when he was, when she had that famous scene where she's like, Tom gotten across it, rolled down the hill, got his eye falling out, whatever that whole story was. And in PK's like, you know, what do you mean they operated on the ankle? You, you go for the head. He's a lawyer. He's not a fucking soccer player. And they're all like laughing, laughing, crying, laughing. That scene is what is so sad about where they are. The marriages are not what they are, that they'll never be. Friendships are. And then the friendships because Kyle is still friendly with Mauricio. So they know she's hearing the sides of, you know, and that's really hard because it's always like, especially when it's like custody and, you know, is someone a good dad or, you know, did he, did she really keep the kids from him or was there an ex, wasn't supposed to be Saturday morning at nine and she wasn't back from coffee yet. And then it's like, you're not at the door. Right. Yeah. Those store. I mean, it's so bad. We all have a friend that's lived here or been through it ourselves. With the exchanges. Let's exchange the police department because you said I threw a baby blanket at you like, it's just awful. It's miserable. It is miserable. And then, you know, so I don't know. I like, I see where it's at and I get how she kind of got to this like fuck it place. Yeah. Oh, it's very clear to me. Yeah. It's very, very clear because she has felt like, Hey, look, these women have known me a long time. Um, they should have my back like point blank period. Yeah. You know, I don't want to hear his side and look at it from this angle and let's place double the advocate. I don't want to hear any of that. Yeah. And she's maybe in the year she'll be willing to hear that. But right now she's in white, hot anger. Right. And you kind of just let me to let her burn. You know, it's like, look, but also again, this is why you friend differently. I am that friend that if you're having a problem with somebody, you probably want to call me. Yeah. Cause I'm going to be the one who's like, drop their location right now. Let's go over there. Yeah. I'm not the friend you call if you want to be soothed and like, oh no, just forgive him. Let it not that let's play devil's advocate. I am not. I'm like, listen, my sister is my best friend and she is a criminal defense attorney. Oh. And sometimes I have to now in our friendship and sisterhood go, I'm just going to bitch and I actually don't want to hear the other side. The other side. I don't want to hear the other side. I just want, I just want you to just, I just need to vent and she'll do the same to me. You know, and I'll be the friend who's going to be like, and then what he do off that asshole, you know what I mean? Like, because also I, I feel it. Like I feel it from my girl and I want to make sure that like I'm looking at the situation through her eyes. And so there are different friends who do it differently. And that is fantastic. You probably do need to call her so she can tell you to calm your ass down. Don't call me. Right. And I mean, you know, and P K even goes, Oh, a lot of things aren't true. And, you know, a lot of things he says this in it, you know, we're from production. I'm not, I'm half doing it, but it's just I'm thinking about it. But like, I won't do it because, you know, I just like, no, but he was saying like, you know, oh, some things aren't real and production, you know, pushes for things and all that. And we haven't seen their home marriage. And it seems to me she has revealed that they got to that place where they were both saying pretty fucking below the belt type of stuff, which is very hard to come from, come back from. But also when someone's like, well, I like P K's always been nice to me. I always go, yeah, there's busboys all over Beverly Hills that said OJ was the nicest guy in the world. We all know it. We all know it. I'm not, I'm not comparing P K to OJ. No, I know what your relationship with someone as a friend, as a businessman, whatever is never going to be the same as someone has as an intimate partner who was married and raised kids. We do, every marriage is different. And you don't know what she said to him that made it a point and a return or whatever. And so I think that that's what's so hard about getting divorced and, and figuring out who's going to pay for what. And yeah, but at the end of the day, you need your friends. Yeah. That to me, that's where we can no longer have a conversation. I'm like, you need your friends. Everybody rally. Right. And honestly, because every marriage is different and therefore every divorce is different, you need different rallies. You know, Kyle wants her very intimate circle and she won't reveal anything to anybody who's not in that. And that, and that's what I had to learn, right? In my first season, because I did feel like she was cold, but I had to learn that like, oh, because she's not going to reveal anything to me. You know, whereas like I was comparing her to Derit, Derit's out here telling me all of her business. You know, when I first met Kyle years ago, like at parties and things like that, I've been interviewing housewives for years. I thought she was a little aloof. And then she came on the show and she was just one of my favorite interviews. So it's like, I think just sometimes people and people say I'm sometimes, you know, a little like, you know, a little dismissive. And I'm like, well, I'm sorry if I was distracted. Like there's things like that where can. So sometimes it's good that you, you know, took some time and kind of get for what her qualities are and everything. Yeah. And also getting to know each other better. And then Kyle is for sure somebody who needs to get to know you. Yeah. She's been around the business a long time. Right. She's been around a lot of different type of people on time. She needs to build trust first, you know, and I'm, I'm now okay with that. Right. Yeah. Well, I didn't understand that in the beginning. And so we're in a very different place in our friendship. However, with Derit, it was totally different, right? Within the first two minutes, she was telling me all the business I was going on with PK. Right. And so I was like, oh, okay, look, the way we need to rally around Derit is different from the way we need to rally around Kyle. Right. And now different from the way we need to rally around Rachel and her divorce. Different from the way you need to rally around Sutton as her marriage is annulled. You know, it's like, yeah, that was, that was the most horrible thing. Oh my God. And he's like dating her ex friend. I can't even see. And that's, that's what I'm telling you. I would have liked to hear. You should not tell me that. I would have. Because I will be like, where is she at? Let's go over there now. Okay. Even when Kyle and I weren't like super chummy. I mean, we, we said it on the show where I saw Moe at Frickin' Soho House in Malibu. And he was there with the, with the woman that he'd been photographed with. Look, Kyle and I weren't like talking, talking, talking. I called her immediately and I was like, girl, you want me to push him into the ocean? What would you like me to do? And then when I got home, I gave her a six minute voice note, give her the play by play on everything I saw. That's what you want to know. You want to know what she was wearing, what they ate. I am, I am that friend. And so I'm like, but it is, it is different for everybody. And even to the point about Sutton, like I didn't know anything about the nulment or whatnot. And so when we met up after last summer and she said that this had happened, I immediately was just like, girl, what? Who would do that? What kind of person? You know, I would try to take that from you. Because as a Catholic, I know how hard it is to get something annulled. And it made me think with his power and connections, it made me go, hmm, I don't really like that. Yeah. That seems a little fishy to me. Well, I met the Pope. Oh, like the new Pope, the new Pope, the Chicago, the Chicago. I was at the Vatican during Holy Week. Oh my gosh. And I was like, I was like, son, you want me to talk to him about this annullment? Would you, would you like me to tell Pope Leo? Wait, how did you meet the Pope? It was great. It was great. So my friend George Rapier, who owns Villa Bibiani, which is where I took the girls in Tuscany, you know, he has all the connections everywhere over in Tuscany. And we were there for Holy Week because it was spring break. And I was like, oh my God, it'd be great to have like Easter at the Vatican. And so Stefano, who runs the villa and the vineyards was like, oh, yeah, we have a connection to the Vatican. You want me to see if you can go? And I was like, oh yeah, get us an audience. And so we had, you know, the opportunity to go to Mass. And then at the very last minute, here comes the invitation to like meet the Pope and talk to him. And I was like, wait, do you have a photo with us? But I wasn't on your Instagram. Yes, it was. I did a whole like, uh, I saw you in your Easter outfit. Oh, but I was only on the grid. Oh, yeah. Well, have a, let's see what's that one. Oh yeah, yeah, keep going. I do. I didn't take everyone though. You didn't. Okay, okay. I'll throw it up in here. Oh, I wrote him a letter, girl. I hand wrote it. So well, what do you think? I cried. What do you, how do you think that he got that annulment? Oh, yeah. Not that it was a pope doing it, but I'm just saying it has to be some type of prior pope connection. But I mean, three kids who also went to Catholic school. Yeah, it's too hard to get to the pope, first of all. I mean, I say it casually, but it's very difficult to get to the pope. It is hard to undo a marriage within the Catholic church. I just, I don't know how he did it. All I know is that it took a lot of effort and was quite intentional. And is he doing that because he wants to marry this ex-friend of hers? Because you can't get married to the church. Yeah, it has to be annulment. Yeah. So that's what I would assume. I would do it through all that trouble unless you wanted to get married. And also that you were, that you're with a woman that feels that's, or maybe he did too, to feel that strongly about that the second marriage be in the church. Like I'd be, most people are just like, that's cool. Like it's a divorce. We're going to get married on the beach now. Let's get married in a garden. Yeah, yeah. But like, no, young girl said, I need to be your only wife in the eyes of God. Oh, I want to know who this girl is. I'm telling you, I am looking for her. I know I was kind of like, how are people like, I would be bringing that up at every luncheon. I would be like, what is going on? See, here's the thing. I know they don't use everything obviously. No, no, no. But also I promised you I would have said it if I had known during our filming that it was her friend or a former friend. I promised you I would have asked because that is just too much not to ask about. And then it was just like, wait, I mean, the moment was one thing. And then after we got through that, I was like, OK, so now you're you're setting Brown. All right, I guess we'll accept it. It doesn't mean that she doesn't really mean she can't call herself set in a strife. I think legally she probably can. I don't think she has to, but I think she's going to. I mean, I had a real idea that took me five times to the DMV because I'm Heather MacDonald, a bias and I was always missing something. And so I just saw someone said a tweet to me because I talked about it. And they're like, this person goes, hi, I'm going to get my California real idea. I brought my mother's placenta. And like, it was like crazy. So I'm like, I don't think anyone's going to make her legally change. No one can make you legally change. I think, and obviously I have not talked to you about this. This is just conjecture on my own. But I think it would be very hard for me to keep somebody's name. Who didn't want me to have it. Right. You know what I'm saying? I'd be like, you went through all that trouble. Yeah. Then I'm not keeping it. You know what I mean? She is a personality now. So it's like, it's like when I was married, got married, I already had been on a TV show and like had an agent. So I'm like, it's Heather MacDonald. My husband was like, whatever you want to do. Right. And then when I was pregnant with my son, I had this weird idea that like, what if I was in the emergency room or had to go to the hospital with him and they were like, that's not your kid, which would never happen. By the way, I thought the same. So then I just added Tobias. Yeah. And so then. But I sat like half the credit cards that Heather MacDonald had. The passport says Heather MacDonald, but the license says Heather MacDonald to buy a second big rat fuck. Honestly. So I'm thinking about a lot about this lately. So I'm fascinated. Yeah, I don't think it's worth it to change your name. Oh, you can still be called the what's your husband's Watson. You can still be the Watson's Christmas card. You can still call yourself the Watson. So interesting. But to legally go through it. I don't think it's worth it. Oh, it's so fascinating. Yeah, I don't think it's worth it. It's like, yeah. But then I have the complication of feeling like I haven't really made my decision. I mean, your name is really good. Yeah, it is. And I thought the same way about Heather MacDonald. I was like, Heather MacDonald is a really good name. Yeah. But my name is McDonald. Your maiden name. That's my maiden name. And like, but nobody like he will. No one would care. And I guess I'll say I'm I'm where the devices at the country club look whatever. And then, but, you know, sometimes I'm like, throw the McDonald around. I know, like, because I like it's like, because people know that I need to get a table or something. No, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Throw your weight around, girl. Yeah. I love that. Absolutely. I championed that idea. But I think it's just I just think it's a pain in the ass. Yeah, but that's why I was just like, you know what? If she wants to change, she's a brown and she don't want to be associated. Her kids are grown. It's like, you might as well. She looked gorgeous this season. Oh, yeah. Like her hair and makeup and everything. She did a great job. And now they're now Amanda. Let's talk about Amanda. Yes. I really loved that you explained on the end of the first part one of the. Oh, yes. About because I kind of was like when she said, hey, you're coming after me, you know, in her confession or whatever, because you too had an online course. And I was like, look, Oprah has an online course. There's master classes. There's all this. Ron Howard, there's writing classes. There's all that kind of stuff that isn't like a negative thing. And I've defended her because I'm like, hey, listen, yeah, she has created something. It makes money and all that stuff. So I thought you explained it really, really well. Yeah, yeah. And then when it went back to it and saw the clip, it did make sense that you were like, it doesn't make money. It's not a money maker. It's not meant to do that. It's not meant to be this big thing that you that people buy into. Right. Right. And continue to pay up and up and up and up. And then they might become a coach themselves. Right. Right. Right. You know, I think the thing that bothered me because I wouldn't have been bothered with her misunderstanding what I said until she turned it into a negative. Right. In order to compare us. You know, that's what brought me the wrong way. Like I was just like, wait, hold on. You took something I said, which I by the way, when we're in the vineyard, I thought we were having a great moment because I thought, oh, here we go. Here's some understanding about what you do and what I do. It was actually the very first time where I was just like, oh, this is a breakthrough. But I think I better understand what you're doing. And I'll tell you what I'm doing, you know? But then she turned like after we were done filming, she just turned it into like this negative dig like to be like, oh, I'm jealous of her because I'm losing business on my online courses and she's a millionaire. And I was like, wait, wait, wait, hold on. Why would you say that? I was like, you know that we don't do the same thing. And by the way, to your point, Oprah has online courses and Ron Howard has online. Everybody got a goddamn online course. It doesn't mean that's the center of what they do. And it is the center of what she does. And so I understand why that's her whole world. Right. But for me, it is not. I'm like, girl, if we were to compare the list of the things I have going on and have had going on, compared to what I do online to help other people. Girl, this is not even the conversation. This is a little thing to. Yeah, it's not. And so I was bothered by the comparison because I was like, we are not the same. I don't know why we would be over here apples and oranges. I mean, and then when, you know, and I do think it was I got, I see both sides when she was like, I am proud that it was my millions that bought this house, bought it out right for her. And you want to say that. And while, but they were like, yeah, but that's a little bit, you know, rude to your husband and all of that. And and I got, I got, I was so glad that then Sutton said, I would have been hurt if my husband, as I'm holding a baby, said, I bought this house. It was my money, my company. Yeah. And it's the same kind of thing. And then jokingly, I'm like, well, if you, if your husband makes the same amount in that you make it a month, he makes it a year. Why don't you give him the course for free? Oh, I should have thought of that. That is a fantastic. Can he have a discount? Is there a special Mother's Day special? You know what? That is such a good point. It's like, why hasn't he manifested more money? That's very, that is actually a fascinating question. I mean, I had not thought of that. And. But you know what? Here's the thing. I thought, look, during that conversation, I really didn't say anything because I just felt like everybody else was jumping in. And there's enough of the like, oh, Bose versus Amanda thing where I'm just like, first of all, everybody versus Amanda, but OK, you know, so I was like, all right, you all take this one. But the point to be made wasn't about whether or not this is like women's empowerment. OK, I can run around saying I've made a gazillion dollars and I can do everything I want to as well. But I would never disparage Keely because I don't want his. I don't I wouldn't want to disparage my partner. You know, like for me, it wasn't so much like, oh, do you have the money and can you prove that like you are an independent woman? It's like, I just went one disparage my partner. And I just feel like that you wouldn't want that if you were a woman. You wouldn't you wouldn't want that if you were a man. So I'm like, well, maybe you should think about how he feels when you say things like that. But you did admit that, like he didn't necessarily like it. Right. I mean, I don't think anybody would. It is hard. Even in the same age when the woman is the main breadwinner or you do the business together. In my case, we have a business together, but I am the face of it. You know, like I do these things. So it's like, yeah, it's not fun. Yeah, it's a hard. It's a hard thing for a couple to manage when the woman makes more than the man. It's just a fact. And certainly one way I do not think it's helpful, which is what Eric and Jay said is saying it over and over. Over and over again. Like, I mean, my God, maybe say it once. I don't know. That's the problem is like, you don't say it a thousand times. I just don't. I just don't know that you do that. Yeah. I mean, I think she could have said, listen, I, I can't, you know, I was able to buy this house, you know, by my, by myself, like I didn't need his money or whatever, you know, or even someone that's like, we didn't need my parents' money for the down payment, whatever, the same type of thing. It's that's okay. And I get that she came on the show. She was doing the, the Bethany Frankel way of putting skinny girl everywhere. Yeah. You know, her manifesting business. And because she was smart, she was probably like, listen, if this is my one season, yeah, I'm gonna make it work. Enough out of it, you know, totally. And I also kind of felt for her when she, when they were like, yeah, but you told the camera man zoom in on this Chanel backpack, which is like, Sutton's got, you know, 20 of those that she gave to her, you know, to her gardener last week. Like she's like cleaning out her closet. Like that's nothing. But I kind of felt she was like, well, I thought that was what she was like, I think in her mind, yes, but she was also most maybe being like naively helpful. Like, oh, I do have a good bag. If you want to like, I think you give her too much credit. No, no, no. I think he, I mean, but she said it, which is that like she wanted to keep up with the Joneses because she thought that's what the show was. Like everybody show off what they have. The difference is nuance, right? You know, and, and taste and tone. Because like, of course you want to showcase what you're wearing. We all love that. Like when, whenever we walk into seeing somebody at a dinner or whatever, we'd be like, oh my God, you look amazing. How many times did we ask Jennifer, what do you have on? Right. You know what I mean? Like, of course you do that, but it's also not Jennifer being like, look at what I have on my body and it's worth a couple more questions. Yes. Now I've been watching the shows for years and there is that element of where someone feels that their castmate, because it is a job is a, a not showing up as much. She's been, you know, the, the read's been criticized for taking smoking breaks, which I kind of thought was interesting because I remember that at my first corporate job, I was like, should I just pretend that I'm a speaker just to like go outside 15 minutes? Yeah. Because they were smoking to leave. But also Erica, you know, was like alluded to DeRiette. Like I shared with you about this DV situation and it seemed like maybe there was a moment where DeRiette's like, you better bring that up on camera. You better give us something. Now I am going to interpret it one way in that DeRiette, I think was being a friend because we don't see Erica's son. We don't see Erica's new boyfriend. We don't, we don't really see much of her life. If she was sharing her son and her boyfriend, we would see the two of them meet. Wouldn't that be interesting? I would love to have seen the cop meet G.I. Joe. No, I would love to see the cops girlfriend. He doesn't have to. And I'm not saying that she should. That's her kid. But if you have this other thing happen, we don't, we never knew that you had this other boyfriend because we never saw this other part of your life. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, I wonder you share so much. We see your daughter. We see your journey. I mean, is that something that sometimes among housewives, it's like, I feel like I'm pulling the weight and somebody else kind of isn't. I think it's probably about tenure than anything. Yeah. Because I don't feel that way just because everything is brand new. Yeah. You know what I mean? And everything is a shiny penny. So I'm always looking around like, ooh, tell me more about that and tell me, like I feel like I'm in a lot of discovery. Right. Whereas maybe somebody like Derit or Kyle or anybody else, Sutton, maybe feel like, oh, well, I have to come season after season and tell new things. Yeah. You know, divulge my entire insides. Otherwise, you know, it's going to seem as if I'm not pulling my weight and why do I have to do this and you don't have to. I mean, I've heard that argument a lot. I don't necessarily feel that just because I don't think I have enough tenure to feel that pressure. Right. But I'm focused on my life. You're saying that does kind of exist. Yeah, that exists. Oh, for sure. For sure it exists. And I can see why. And I love that. And I love to Erica's honesty about DJing is easier than performing. And I love it. Yeah. And yeah. She's going to DJ my wedding. I mean, I love that too. But I was also like, you know, maybe she wants to just be a guest. Oh, what? At my wedding? Yeah. Oh my God. She probably does. She's probably like, why do I got to come work? No, this is what you should do. Have your regular DJ. Oh, I am. I am. And then she just comes. She's going to do a little spotlight. Yeah, exactly. No, I don't want her to do all of that. But I do think that, look, there are also, I think we got also like, you know, be careful about, oh, this one's sharing too much or that one's not sharing enough because of tenure. There's a long time. And so I don't agree when people say like, oh, Kyle isn't sharing enough. I'm like, that girl's been on the show 15 fucking years. I agree. She shared enough of her life. If she decides that she doesn't want to share this particular part. OK, she doesn't want to say the person's name. You know who the person is. And by the way, I saw the person the previous season. And maybe then they changed their mind. Exactly. I'm like, hey, look, she is allowed. And then if she decides, like, hey, look, because I'm not sharing this, I can't be on the show anymore. That is her call. That's her decision. Meanwhile, I'm focused on my life. Yeah. And and whatever that relationship is with Morgan Wade, who just started a podcast, is doing another TV show. She doesn't leave a private life. She's a big musician. They might just be friends. They might have always just been friends. Doesn't really matter. But yeah, I think that was that was interesting to watch. Yeah. And I felt like I was never like, give me more. I was like, this is juicy. This is good. This is interesting. By the way, I think the tension of her and Moe is so interesting to me. I know maybe people want more. When I, by the way, when I met him, yeah, like for the first, because of course, I like I saw him at Soho House and we had talked about him a bunch. And so I, like I said, I had my I was team Kyle, right? Even though she and I were not particularly close, but I was like, look, it's us against him, you know? And then I met him and I was like, yo, this guy's got aura. Yeah. Like he's really charming. And so then I told to read. I don't think it made the edit, but I told to read. I was like, yo, if I ever meet P K and he charms me, I'm sorry. I apologize ahead of time. I don't know. I'm like, Moe is kind of, Moe is kind of cool. I've met Moe much times. He's always very nice. He's great. He's fine. I understand. Yeah. And it's kind of to see how she when she does now, we see her like get a visible X sometimes. That's kind of funny because he's like, yeah. I know. You know, like now that she's kind of out of it, she like still has like she said, they were their friends, they're friendly, but it is kind of funny how she's like, we'll roll her eyes and be like, whatever, she talks about at reunion. She talks about this time that I think they were in Aspen or something. And he was, you know, he was going around the party as if she wasn't there and how it made her feel. And I was like, girl, I think it's a very hard thing to balance and be in the public eye and be in the public eye. And then you don't have any clear lines of demarcation. You know what I'm saying? Like that would be an impossible situation. So I don't know. It'll be interesting. Well, I love that you came. Thank you so much. That should be here. I have you are not following her. You're crazy. So tell everybody where they can follow you and anything. Well, of course, the badass Bose on Instagram. So you can find me everywhere with that. But mostly I live on Instagram. And I'm so excited. We still have part two. Yes. This. Yeah, we'll we'll we'll have seen part two and then we still have three. Yeah, part three. Thank you. Thank you so much.