382: Proof of Past Lives? Chilling Reincarnation Stories You Won't Believe

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We're gonna be talking about reincarnation. Yes. And past lives. with examples of children recalling their past lives. Yeah, some very crazy stories. Yeah, some of them are new to me. And I'm really excited because we haven't got to do a reincarnation episode or talk about it at all with Ian yet. And I want to hear your takes. You told me earlier you're very open, very open to the idea of reincarnation. Very, very, very open. I don't know. My mom, I think I've told you guys about her. She's a bit of a new agey style lady. She sounds like a woman I would just love to hang out with. You guys would vibe. I think everyone would kind of vibe with her. I mean, she did ayahuasca at like 60 years old. That's so awesome. Let's go. Bring her by. Hey, next time she's around, I'll bring her in. We seriously need to do that bring your parent to work day that we've always wanted to do. No, please. And I want them to run our show. Oh, my God. They take our roles. Yeah. Have our parents host the show. Stand in for us. So your mom's into reincarnation? Very, very into it. She believes that she was, I think Shakespeare is her belief. That she was Shakespeare? She was Shakespeare. Oh, shit. Let's get her on the show. I got to know more. It's just because when we lived in England, we visited the house a lot. I mean, she has specific things. It was like, I don't fucking know. But that's her belief that she was one Shakespeare. Interesting. Wait, okay. I've got to have you Google if someone has claimed to be. Oh, I'm sure there's. There's got to be like several people who think they were Shakespeare. Well, there's a lot of people, you know, there's a whole market for past life readings. And, you know, there's a lot of people because we're kind of tapping into the psychic medium world. Yeah. You know, channelers and things like that where people, you know, there's a lot of people who claim that they can channel your past life and tell you who you were. Because you did that at one point. Yes. With somebody. I don't know if I believe it, but I was told I was an Egyptian man who made jewelry by the river or something like that. I feel not specific. It was definitely not specific. But also, all the stories that you hear about with reincarnation, or the ones that are most talked about, I guess, are people who either experienced a famous event or are a famous person that's notable and can be found. versus like you don't really hear about someone's story who was just like an average bloke or is like recalling weird memories but they can't be verified there's no record of them right other than maybe their their death and birth records or something exactly or they don't even know their name or they can't like there was nothing specific enough about their memories that allowed them to figure out exactly who they were you know well i know as we'll see with the stories we're gonna be talking about a lot of actually pretty much all of them revolve around a past life that ended traumatically in one way or another and that's kind of interesting as well yes that's a good especially when talking about children recalling a past life because oftentimes children aren't necessarily exposed to the type of traumatic event we'll be talking about specifically and sometimes i think that's one of the more shocking things and in some of them there's some things you could point to is where they maybe got an idea for for some things but because there are famous events i mean we're talking about kids who claim to have experienced world war ii 9-11 the titanic these famous parts of our history that are so well-documented. Yeah, and you don't, I mean, maybe that's why we know about them at all, right? It's because they're recalling such a significant event in history. But maybe they really are. It's so prominent for them is because it feels unresolved because of the trauma that they went through. Right, well, it kind of ties into the paranormal belief of spirits and we kind of touch on it a little bit but imprinting so when a traumatic event happens it's sort of imprinted into uh there's a couple different ways to look at it but it's imprinted into the actual location that it happens and therefore that's one theory as to why paranormal activity occurs at these sort of locations is that the residual energy from the traumatic event the grief, the pain, the agony, all these feelings that happened get imprinted into the actual sort of atomic structure of these locations and building materials or whatever it may be. Isn't there a name for that? Well, they call it the, I think it's stone tape theory. Stone tape. Yeah. Yeah. That it's kind of just like replaying sort of this imprint that is still there. so it's interesting that kids are are able to remember this but then the memories fade after a certain time period you know there's only a certain time period based on studies that are done on this where kids are able to remember these past lives and then they sort of fade after that and there's i don't think there's really any concrete answer to why children are able to experience this phenomenon or remember these things other than the fact that a lot of people point to well they're still relatively close time wise to being on the other side of of life you know whatever that is um you know did any of you see the movie baby geniuses why of course you've seen it when i was a baby not a genius but when i was a baby i saw it you saw it as a baby like a kid like a kid like a kid but you've seen it with like the little egg huts that they lived and stuff. Of course. It's kind of that idea, too, that they're still close to the other side, so they have these memories. I haven't seen that in so long, but it's something along the lines of that. Right. It's like they're in the timeline. Sorry, I'm like, also... It's okay. We always have to look through the whole... It's like, if I remember correctly, it's like the timeline of just existence in general. The babies are the geniuses because they're still close enough to access the life before yes that's exactly oh my god now i need to watch that movie i need to show that to you that's a wild one well it's the same thing too it all kind of ties in together but a lot of paranormal experiences uh happen to children and you know seeing figures that aren't there or you know talking to an imaginary friend uh and i think it's just that connection is still there for a while. And I think that these are just children tapping into psychic abilities, right? And I think it's stronger and more prevalent in children because they haven't learned as much. They haven't consumed all of the knowledge and schooling and all these other things that sort of- They haven't been conditioned by society. Yeah. In a lot of ways, they don't have much to go off of other than this connection that they have. mm-hmm josh and i have been having a lot of discussions about what it's like for our baby in the womb right now do they have does he have like more knowledge than he'll ever have like what if when you're in there you know more than you ever will anywhere else or you're more tapped into spirituality or the reality of right the universe like is it the individual personality is that formed yet is that is it an separate consciousness that exists in the womb already or is this baby until it's born still connected to sort of a universal consciousness or connected to you know a different life force and that stuff doesn't happen until birth or later on well yeah and like i guess it really comes down to what you believe and i mean if you believe in astrology or anything like that, you know, once you are born, that's when you get your chart sort of comes together. And that's when your personality is determined in a lot of ways, right? Like when you read a birth chart, you're reading, you know, how did the astral elements affected your existence, essentially. Yeah, we're getting so off topic, but I always think about that with holly because i was induced with her so it you know i didn't go into labor naturally so i'm always like did i like was her birth chart messed up is she not who she's supposed to be or like does that is that predetermined or you know i mean that's if you believe in any of that anyway but well if we're talking about reincarnation or we this is the body has nothing to do with it it's the soul right it's the soul that is already been through life after life after life maybe that all joins in when you're going through the birth canal maybe but then c-sections i mean it's all the birth canal could be the portal from one world to another maybe it's just once you're in the air god so many unknown things i could just sit here and ponder all day but we should get into our stories here because this is some fascinating stuff yeah it's gonna blow you away. If you don't believe in reincarnation or you believe in a different sort of idea of what life looks like after death, this might just convince you. Yeah, maybe. Maybe. This is the way. I don't know. Who knows, right? Nobody knows. We'll find out when we're dead. Maybe. Well, before we get into the stories, let's start just by talking about reincarnation as an idea in general. So since the beginning of written language, most early civilizations have expressed some belief that the soul is a separate entity from the physical body. In the common Abrahamic religions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, the soul is separated from the body at death and sent to some form of afterlife. Heaven or hell. Yeah. That's what I was taught. Uh-huh. Yes, you were. However, other even older religions express the possibility of reincarnation, that your soul continues to live on through other physical bodies as your current life ends. This is an idea that's always just resonated with me. You know, before I even really understood what reincarnation was or had someone present the idea to me, it was something that was already kind of like, the very basics of it were brewing in my mind as a child. That's really cool. The idea of becoming something else or like. Well, it's, it's doesn't have this permanence to it that a lot of other beliefs have. Right. And it also doesn't have necessarily this sort of fear attached to it. Yes. That can be so damaging, which is an idea that I learned about from my late grandmother, Jane. Jane. Amazing woman. And she was the one who taught me about reincarnation. She was a serious believer. Yeah. Both your grandparents. So it definitely resonated with me, especially after I deconstructed from Christianity. Because it feels like more of a natural process. Reincarnation is a cycle. And if you look everywhere in the universe, it's a cycle. Yeah. Life, death, life, death. and it's ever repeating. Life cannot be created or destroyed. Just forever lives on. That's kind of the way I see it. Sort of like matter. Hinduism speaks of samsara, which is the cycle of death and rebirth guided by karma until it reaches a spiritual liberation. Buddhism speaks of the revival of consciousness rather than a singular soul, ultimately reaching nirvana by breaking that cycle. Jainism, which is a non-theistic religion that was founded in India, teaches salvation by perfection through successive lives, and non-injury to living creatures, and the belief that transmigration of the soul, which transmigrates through various life forms, and Sikhism holds that the soul evolves through rebirth, aiming for union with God. Other religions have even more interesting and specific beliefs surrounding reincarnation, The Druze, which is a small Middle Eastern religious sect that practices a unique Abrahamic religion, which developed from a branch of Shia Islam, though they don't identify as Muslim, but they believe that one is immediately reincarnated as another newborn within the same community. And then there's Kabbalistic Judaism, which believes in the transmigration of souls after death. There are many New Age Western beliefs that also boil these down to just general reincarnation, mainly based on numerous indigenous and ancient traditions of the same idea. However, more modern studies have attempted to provide scientific backing for the idea through the University of Virginia's Division of Perceptual Studies, which focuses on near-death experiences, neuroimaging, altered states of consciousness, and past lives. What a fascinating place to work and study, right? Yeah, I mean, just that whole, I mean, I would love to meet all the people working in that department. Right? I was just about to say, I'd love to take a tour. or just anybody that goes into parapsychology what an interesting subject to focus on I wonder if there's anybody out there listening to this who's either a parapsychologist or studying parapsychology is there even a major for parapsychology or that'd be like a specialty probably I think it's more of a specialty you'd probably just I don't even yeah they're rare but you can get one that's so cool or you can get a masters in psych with a parapsychology concentration. You should have done that, Jan. Yeah, I didn't even know that was a thing. Will you go back to school? Yeah, report back. Go back to school. Get another master's. I'm so good on that. Thank you. How about a doctorate now? No. I don't want to fucking do another test someday in my life. Dr. Janelle. That, no, okay, that'd be sick. Yeah, that'd be really cool. But not sick enough to spend thousands of dollars and tens of hundreds of hours. You've done enough school. I don't want to do any more school. And once you've been out for like... Oh, it's hard to go back. For like six years or whatever, it's like... But anyway, the roots of the division began in the 1920s when Dr. Ian Stevenson grew up in Canada. And as a young boy, he had contracted bronchitis numerous times and he spent days in bed. and he often passed time by reading his mother's extensive collection of books on Eastern religions, where he claimed he first encountered paranormal phenomena. After a flourishing career in medicine, biochemistry, psychiatry, and psychoanalysis, he was named the chairman of the psychiatry department at UVA in 1957. However, it was here that he dipped his toes into the waters of parapsychology, studying mental abilities that go against or outside of the known laws of nature and science. What a fascinating field to be in. He was among the first to realize that young children, generally between two and five years old, spoke at length about places they never visited and people they had never met. Out of the 44 cases that he studied in his essay, the evidence for survival from claimed memories of incarnations, The majority came from Asian countries where the belief in reincarnation was already widely accepted. That's interesting. While his work was garnering worldwide attention, the School of Medicine wasn't exactly thrilled with it. He was asked to step down as the dean, but was allowed to continue his research through his own division. While numerous New Age spiritualists claim to access past lives through regression, the University of Virginia focuses on children who maintain clear, accurate visions of their past lives without prompting from a third party. Through their research, they have compiled nearly 2,500 cases of reincarnation worldwide, and that's just the cases that meet their criteria. The department says that some young children, usually, again, between the ages of two and five, speak about memories of a previous life that they have claimed to live. At the same time, they often exhibit behaviors such as phobias and preferences that are unusual within the context of their particular family and cannot be explained by current life events. They also describe that in many cases, the child's statements correspond accurately to the life and death of a deceased person. Some children even have birthmarks or birth defects that match wounds or marks on the deceased person, having been confirmed by postmortem reports. And while some older children seem to retain these memories, they generally fade by the time that the child turns seven years old. Mint Mobile is changing the wireless game because we're all tired of overpaying for the same coverage, the same speeds, the same towers at this point. 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You're not my parent. You're not my mommy. I birthed you. Shut up. Or like when I was big, that happened before I was in mommy's tummy. Dude, that would freak me out so bad though on the real. Yeah. Or if your kid's like, I have had a husband. I've had children. Mm-hmm. I was married. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. That would really freak me out. Or they used to do this. I used to build ships. I used to fly planes. I used to. Yeah. I built the pyramids. Who knows? I died. I've died before. That would freak me out. If a little kid came up to me and was like, I died. Especially like a three-year-old or something. Or describing in detail how they died. Scary. I'd be like, your ass is going right to the shrink. We're taking you back to the hospital. And this first case is one of the most famous. It was documented by the UVA department. And it's also one of the most captivating. This is the story of James Leininger. This case. Probably the most famous past life case. For sure. I think it's the most compelling. But this case has stuck with me so hard. I think about it at least every couple of weeks. Or maybe like every couple of months, but for real. The story, it's so incredible. Well, here it is. James Leininger was born to his parents, Bruce and Andrew, on April 10th, 1998. And while he had a relatively typical early childhood, his parents began to notice some odd things about James just before he turned two years old. In February 2000, his father took James to the Kavanaugh Flight Museum outside of Dallas, Texas. And of course, as a little kid, I mean, as most little kids are going to be pretty amazed by airplanes, you know, massive airplanes. Our daughter was super into the airplanes when we took her to the airport for the first time. Yeah, she wants to be a pilot when she grows up. Yes, she actually does. That's actually kind of cool. But James was absolutely blown away by all the massive airplanes at this air show. And he took particular interest in the World War II exhibit. And by the time they left, James walked away with a few toys and a DVD on the Navy's flight exhibition team, the Blue Angels, which I've seen the Blue Angels before. Very, very cool. The stunts that those guys do is unbelievable. But it's important to note that this DVD he took home did not discuss the events of World War II because the Blue Angels weren't found until after the war ended. Still, he seemed to demonstrate some knowledge of the war without prior knowledge. Later in the spring, James and his father made a second trip to the museum and once again, James was super stoked to be there. However, as he entered the World War II hangar, he grew quiet. He just kind of was like clearly in his head thinking. He stood staring, pointing at the planes in awe. James had also developed a strange habit. He would say, airplane crash on fire before slamming his toy planes into the family coffee tape. Which he did this a lot. So there's all, you know, they got all sorts of dents and scratches in their coffee table. I mean, little kids, forget about your furniture. It's going to get ruined. It's just how it goes. But whenever his dad would travel for work, James said, Daddy, airplane crash on fire. I'd be like, what are you talking about? This happened repeatedly no matter what his dad said to him. And it was around this time that James started having intense nightmares. And at first he'd only scream. But then his parents heard him shouting words like, Airplane crash on fire. Little man can't get out. Oh, I just get the chills every time I hear that part. After a few months of these constant nightmares, he had numerous conversations with his parents about the dreams as he was going to sleep. He said that these memories were from a past event. Two weeks later, James said his plane was a Corsair, which is a specific fighter plane that was developed during World War II. Here is a short clip of James' parents recalling a very peculiar fact about the plane he claimed to fly. With each passing month, little James Leiniger seemed to be peeling back memories of a past life. Woo! Hey! vivid memories that scared and astonished his parents. Bruce had always said, what kind of plane did you fly? And he said, a Corsair. He said, a Corsair? He said the word Corsair. Not only did James remember flying a Corsair, he demonstrated knowledge of the plane's peculiarities, like the time he was flipping through a book about planes when he was four. He got to the Corsair and he said, that's a Corsair. And he goes, you know what? They used to get flat tires all the time. In fact, historians and pilots agree that the plane's tires took a lot of punishment on landing. Of course, this is a fact that could easily be found in books or on TV. But then, James began to offer up the kinds of specific details his parents say are harder to explain away. That is so fucking insane. Yeah, to know like a specific name of an airplane that young. Especially something so specific, a Corsair. and corsairs are kind of a weird because it's not like how we do fighter planes now where it's like we've had the f-18s since the 80s yeah it's like the corsair was during a very specific time towards the end of world war ii like it's it's like pretty specific yeah out of all the different airplanes and different vehicles from world war ii to be able to call that out is pretty yeah pretty wild But then on August 27, 2000, a few months after James turned two, he told his parents that he had flown his plane off of a boat. And his parents asked him, well, what's the name of this boat? He said, Natoma. James's father did a quick search online and discovered a description of the USS Natoma Bay, which was an escort carrier stationed in the Pacific during World War II. Now that is very impressive. Dude, imagine looking that up and being able to... affirm what your child is saying. We're talking about a two-year-old. Two years old. Two, three-year-old. That is insane. There's no Corsairs or escort carriers in Paw Patrol. Yeah, they're not teaching that on Blippi for sure. No, there's no. Even in some of the shows from our childhood, there was nothing like that. No. And even if there was, would a two-year-old be able to repeat that so clearly and accurately? It's possible. I guess. I mean, there's some really smart kids out there. Unlikely, though. but his parents would often ask james what the little man the plane was called and for a while he responded me or james however a few weeks after james said natoma's parents asked him if there was anyone else with him and that's when he responded with the name jack larson that would trip me out that is such a specific name what kid is gonna be like yeah jack larson yeah right yeah he's like, duh, Jack Larson. One day, James' father was flipping through a book on the Battle of Iwo Jima, which is one of the final, most pivotal battles in the Pacific theater during World War II, and James pointed to a picture showing an aerial view of the island, and he picked out Mount Suribachi, and he said, that's where my plane was shot down. My airplane got shot down there, daddy. Wow. I'd be like, what? He also said something very strange. Once in the front yard, James told his dad that he knew he'd be a good father when I picked you out in Hawaii. That's so interesting. This is also kind of a common pattern amongst these stories is that the children also recall picking out their parents. Yes. Which I love. Or even just viewing them from a different plane of reality. I want to believe this is true. I do too. because that just makes I mean it makes you feel special as a parent like your kids picked you out it feeds the ego that's for sure which again some would argue well there's a lot of kids that have horrible parents why on earth would they pick out a horrible parent if they got to pick truly pick but maybe it's deeper than more complex and your soul needs to experience that's exactly what I think I don't know just a theory but I believe the soul has a sort of a mission and chooses its life based on what it needs to learn or do, even if it might be hard. James went on to say that he saw his parents in a pink hotel. I believe it's the Royal Hawaiian on Oahu, which was the hotel that they were staying at when they decided to have James. The idea just popped in their head or did it? Or did he pop it in their heads? That's pretty insane. You go down a rabbit hole thinking about this stuff. So then one week later, James' father was speaking with a veteran aboard the Natoma Bay, and he asked if he had known anyone named Jack Larson. The veteran said that Jack flew off one day and never returned, and no one knew what happened to him. But James did. With the ongoing nightmares, James' parents reached out to Carol Bowman, who had written a book on children with past life memories, and she encouraged them to treat these as real memories and emphasize that, to James, these nightmares happened to him before. They were real to him. And after they took her advice, James' nightmares became less frequent. However, Bruce considered himself to be a skeptic. He was raised in a conservative Protestant household, so he, you know, thought that reincarnation was directly opposed to how he viewed the afterlife, and it is. However, things became harder to ignore when James shared even more about himself. As he learned to draw, James drew hundreds of battle scenes depicting fighter planes, and he signed them all James 3, which they were confused about. Thought maybe because he was three years old. However, when he turned four, that signature remained. This was because he was the third James Houston Jr., and the pilot he believed he was in a previous life was James II. How fascinating is that? That part always just, oof, chilly bumps. However, at this point, James Houston had not been identified yet. They had no idea who he was, and his parents were still looking for Jack Larson. And eventually, James's father attended a Natoma Bay reunion, and he learned that Jack Larson had actually survived the war. And Bruce soon met with him. And it was during this conversation that Jack Larson told him that he only knew of one pilot from the Natoma that had died during the battle for Iwo Jima. That was James Houston Jr. James also created a makeshift cockpit in their home, often acting out the crash in astonishing detail. He also had little G.I. Joe dolls, and he named them, or are they dolls? Action figures, bro. Thank you. Okay, sorry about that. That was offensive. Yeah, careful. Action figures. And he named them Billy, Walter, and Leon. Pretty specific names. I mean, Billy's like whatever, but Walter, Leon, those are for like a kid to come up with? Yeah. And James said that these were men who he had met once he got to heaven. And they were all men who turned out to be real men in the same squadron as James Houston. and they had all died before he did, so them meeting him in heaven or the afterlife or whatever would make total sense, right? James's father began researching James Houston, learning that he didn't die during the battle itself, but later during an aerial assault on the nearby island of Shishijima, where the Japanese were preparing a buildup of troops and supplies for a counterattack. What's interesting, though, is that Jack Larson, whom James initially said was his past life, was actually the pilot next to James Houston during the flight when he was shot down. Then James met James Houston's 91-year-old sister, and the meeting was miraculous, as James not only recalled her childhood nicknames, which is crazy, but also said that their father was an alcoholic, which is a fact that her sister had never made public about her upbringing. He also asked James' sister for the only picture that her mother had ever painted of her. so she he knew that she had painted this picture i mean who wouldn't who would have how would he have ever been able to pull that starting a business can be overwhelming you're juggling multiple roles designer marketer logistics manager all while bringing your vision to life shopify helps millions of business sell online build fast with templates and ai descriptions and photos inventory and shipping sign up for your one euro per month trial and start selling today at shopify.nl. That's shopify.nl. It's time to see what you can accomplish with Shopify by your side. Just out of this. There's no way. No. And it's important to note that only the sister and James Houston knew of this painting's existence. Finally, James's parents took him to Shishijima to essentially hold a small funeral for James Houston. There is actually video footage of this too somewhere it's it's super old i don't know if you were able to access it but it's very emotional i remember crying watching it yeah it's i mean you know a skeptic might be like oh this is all concocted and that you know they said but no he's he's clearly having a very emotional uh reaction to being at the site where he died yeah he is just crying throughout the whole trip been during the part where they put flowers into the water, but his parents are supporting him through it and saying that this was all happening so that he could say goodbye to his past life, kind of put that to rest officially, James Houston Jr. And as James got older, like the other children in this story, the past life memories tended to fade. And eventually he became an Eagle scout and lived, you know, normal everyday life. How old would he be now? What was his birthday again? He's only a year younger than me, so he would be like 27 right now. Damn, that's so crazy. Well, James's past life isn't the only incredible case that was officially covered by the Department of Perceptual Studies. His case is definitely one of the most convincing, though, for sure. Yeah. If there's any case that I feel like pretty good about, like pretty certain that he's definitely remembering. He's either remembering his past life or he's channeling something. He definitely has some type of psychic connection. I think I need to finally read the book that his parents came out with. I think it's always difficult because you just never know what the parents are up to. I know. It's very easy to be suspicious of the parents and could they have played into this to try to make it a bigger thing. Because especially with his story, they did the rounds on all the talk shows. I mean, the clip we showed earlier was with an old show, Andrew Cuomo. Yeah. I was on ABC and they were all over the Today shows and stuff. But there's also so many other people involved in this story. that he was able to track down and recall. Unless they had figured all of this out and even knew about the painting before. It would have came to light. Someone would have already figured out it was an elaborate hoax. It's very hard to poke holes in every single element. But I was saying to them earlier that I would love to do an entire episode just on James' story and dig more into the book and get more into the details. If the audience is interested, back me up. Or we just hit up James. Oh my God. See if James just wants to see if we can track him down. James, please. I believe. We should see if we can track him down and just throw it out there. Yeah. It'd be interesting. I know he doesn't remember it anymore. Or his parents. Like, he's so down. So down. But moving on to the next case here. It's one of the most famous cases covered by the department. And this is the story of Ryan Hammonds. And he was only four years old when he began having vivid nightmares. He'd wake up clutching his chest and telling his mother Cindy that he couldn't breathe. He said his heart had exploded in Hollywood. I'm like, what? His family lived all their lives in Oklahoma. And in the months leading up to these nightmares, Ryan had been talking about going home to Hollywood. And he pleaded with his mother to take him to see his other family. He knew scenes from a cowboy movie he had never watched. He said that a cafe reminded me of Paris and spoke about his travels across the world. He said that he had a job at an agency where people changed their names. Finally, wondering what on earth is my son talking about, Cindy checked out a few library books on the golden age of Hollywood. And while flipping through the book, Ryan got excited when he saw a picture from the movie Night After Night. He said, Mama, that's George. We did a picture together. and the man Ryan pointed to was George Raft, an actor and dancer who starred in gangster films in the 30s and 40s and when Ryan pointed at a photo of another man he said, that guy's me, I found me. However, Cindy couldn't find the man that Ryan said was himself and it was after this encounter with the book that Cindy wrote to UVA's division of perceptual studies and at this point the division was led by its current director, Dr. Jim B. Tucker, who had been trying to elevate their studies beyond the realm of parapsychology into mainstream psychology. And after Cindy wrote to Dr. Tucker, he traveled to Oklahoma in April 2010 to meet with the Hammonds family. And with the help of a TV crew, they successfully identified the man in the photo as Marty Martin, who actually passed in 1964. And when Ryan looked through pictures of people Marty had known, he recognized his wife, though Dr. Tucker felt his questions were a little too vague. Both Ryan and Dr. Tucker flew to Los Angeles to meet with Marty's now adult daughter, who was just eight years old when Marty passed away. However, Ryan was confused when he met her all grown up. During that meeting with Marty's daughter, Dr. Tucker fact-checked Ryan's supposed memories with Marty's daughter, and some of the details were very accurate, although there were some that weren't so much. Marty and his wife had traveled the globe, as Ryan had described, and Ryan also spoke about dancing in Broadway performances. Dr. Tucker found this unlikely since Marty had only been an extra before becoming a full-time talent agent, so why would an extra with no lines be dancing on stage? However, Marty's daughter confirmed that among his extra work, he had and indeed danced in a number of Broadway performances. Ryan said that he had two sisters and a mother with curly brown hair, which was all verifiably true, and he said that his address had either the word rock or mount in its name. Sure enough, Marty's final address was 825 North Roxbury. However, when it came to cause of death for Marty, his heart had not exploded, as Ryan had described. Marty had actually had leukemia and died as a result of a cerebral hemorrhage. Ryan had also said that his father raised corn and died when Marty was still a child, but this didn't turn out to be true. Dr. Tucker documented Ryan's story but said it wasn't definitive proof of reincarnation. He ended up writing, what this offered was an opportunity to look at the big picture, this question of there being more of us than just the physical. And while Ryan's story was pretty captivating, it is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the study of reincarnation. Because this next one is pretty nuts as well. Wayfair. 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Head over to wayfair.com right now to shop all things home that's w-a-y-f-a-i-r dot com wayfair every style every home okay real quick before we move to the next one which is super fascinating and did you end up looking up if anyone else claims to be shakespeare in their past life um this guy doesn't claim it himself but people have said that anne hathaway's husband adam shulman uh let me see that i already delete the tab yes Anne Hathaway's husband Adam Shulman is the reincarnation of William Shakespeare oh he is confirmed we don't know we don't it's confirmed though but uh many people many people believe Adam Shulman bears an uncanny resemblance to portraits of Shakespeare kind of the actress Anne Hathaway shares the exact name of Shakespeare's real life wife and uh followers of this theory often quote a likely apocryphal line attributed to Shakespeare life is too short to love you alone in one. I promise to look for you in the next life. Pretty sweet. Interesting. I forgot his wife was also named Anne Hathaway. Can you pull up the picture? I want to compare them. The physical resemblance to Shakespeare is there too. Well, maybe. We'll be the judges of that. Right? Oh, I see it. I see it a bit. Honestly, it kind of looks pretty close. Does Shakespeare have blue eyes? I can't tell from that. Oh, yeah. Oh. Ooh. Ooh. The plot thickens. They're on to something. They're cooking. That's interesting. Huh. Okay. Does he write plays? This picture right here. Yeah, that's pretty wild. Look at the eyes. Yeah. That's pretty crazy. The eyebrows. Pretty close. All right. So let's move on to our next story. The Titanic architect. This one's fascinating. This one was new to me, I believe. Unless I... I don't think you covered this one. I don't think I did. No. So a young boy named Jamie had been obsessed with the Titanic ever since he was five years old. And I know there's a lot of reincarnation stories of people who believe, who remember the Titanic being different people on the boat. But yeah, he would draw extremely detailed sketches of the ship and sharing important facts about its interior. However, Jamie wasn't just interested in the famous ship, he was convinced that he was the Titanic's architect, which carries a lot of weight, right? the architect is named Thomas Andrews, and that's who Jamie believes he is. So Jamie's mother said that he had always been terrified of deep water, even before the Titanic obsession began. And she said that he always made strange, eerie comments. Jamie once said that he had watched his mother as a little girl riding her blue bicycle, accurately recalling the color of her childhood bike, despite there being no photos of it. And when she asked Jamie how he knew this, he said that he had watched her from the windows in heaven. Interesting. And he would also have strange dreams where he shouted, she's going down, even before his titanic obsession began. His mother also said that while Jamie was a happy, easygoing kid, whenever it came to water, he would irrationally freak out. she said everybody in my family loves to swim we all loved the water so we had a swimming pool jamie would never go past the stairs of the pool even if i would pick him up and take him out into the water he would completely panic and practically choke you begging you to take him back into the shallow part he was terrified of the deep end of the pool i just wanted to mention something um i I think this is worth noting that supposedly humans are only born with two innate fears, which is fear of heights and fear of loud noises. And everything else is taught. Really? Even fear of water? Supposedly, yeah. That's super. You said heights? Heights and loud noises. Because these fears are rooted in the amygdala. And so obviously, like, I think it sparks your fight or flight response. just as a natural, like, survival instinct. But supposedly everything else is taught. Huh. You would think water would fall into that fire, like, basic things like that. Yeah, but, I don't know. Like, what if you weren't taught that water was dangerous? You're just like, water. Well. Or fire, you're like. They, like, I mean, they throw babies in the water, and they have, like, a weird instinct to, like. but that instinct probably comes out of fear of drowning right sure like yeah yeah i don't know who knows huh interesting so jamie's obsession and connection with the titanic began when his mother left him with a babysitter once and she was horrified when she returned home and found them watching the second half of the titanic and the next day jamie started drawing pictures and painting picture, pictures after pictures of the Titanic. And within the first two weeks, he probably had painted 50 pictures. And one of the pictures had over 100 windows and showed every level within the ship. Yeah, the sketches are really intricate. Like, it took him some serious time. Yeah. And it's pretty accurate. Yeah, dude, at that age, too. Yeah. I mean, if you've seen little kids' drawings, Holly's are... Which obviously there's gifted children out there who probably just can draw better, but... Trash. Very basic. Damn. Basic. Trash. I love them, but... I mean, yeah, look at this. They're cute. He's got the smokestacks. That is crazy. He's got the windows. That's impressive. Oh my God. I couldn't even do that now, bro. Even the proportions, right? The proportions of all of the elements of the ship To the water, to the sky. So even and meticulous. Like an architect would be, right? Mm-hmm. She said, Jamie was completely distraught over the fact that people in the boiler room died first. Like it was his fault that they were trapped. He started talking about the accident itself and how it shouldn't have happened and that there were mistakes. There were corners cut and the men in the boiler room should not have been trapped. And he would even cry about it. Just so... So that's like heavy for a little soul. Yeah. He also accurately listed some of the mistakes made and the corners cut in the ship's construction, namely the use of iron instead of steel. Yeah. Thanks, JP Morgan. Remember? I mean, he's financing it and they're rushing to get it done. Yep. Yep. Cheap bastard. Cut the corners. I mean, that's the only reason why the ship broke in two. Mm-hmm. Because it was using iron and sew steel. It wasn't. But it was the unsinkable ship. And because the water is so dang cold up there that makes iron brittle. God, that's crazy. Crack in half. So Jamie's mom decided to do her own research and figured out who had been there and concluded that he was one of the ship's architects, Thomas Andrews. Thomas had designed numerous vessels for the White Star Line, and he went on all of their maiden voyages. And when the Titanic sank in 1912, Thomas chose not to board a lifeboat and went down with the ship. You know, when I hear of stories like that, like captains going down with the ship or architects, I'm like, that is just so brave. Even if it was completely my fault, I would be like, let me on the fucking lifeboat. I'm not going down. Absolutely not. I think that's easy to say right now. But I think if you were in that moment, and obviously they didn't have enough lifeboats as well, which was another issue. Well, women and children. Right, right. Nah, Kendall. Nah, Kendall. I am women and child. So if you were a man, you'd hop on? Probably. You'd be like, well, I got to get off this boat because I got to construct another one. Yeah, exactly. I think your job is over at that point. Yeah. And that's probably what we thought. Round two. Yeah. it's a noble thing to do. Well, I ain't trying to be noble. I'm trying to live. Starting a business can be overwhelming. You're juggling multiple roles, designer, marketer, logistics manager, all while bringing your vision to life. Shopify helps millions of business sell online. Build fast with templates and AI descriptions and photos, inventory and shipping. Sign up for your one euro per month trial and start selling today at Shopify.nl. That's Shopify.nl It's time to see what you can accomplish with Shopify by your side I don't want to be cold I don't want to drown Sounds horrible That would be funny if all you said was I just don't want to be cold Just don't want to be cold Okay, listen, I can't take the cold Anyway, I'm joking around I would be so noble, I'd go down with that shit for sure Now, his mom did admit That he was raised with the belief in reincarnation, which is interesting. And the family immediately believed his obsession had to have stemmed from a deeper connection to the ship itself. However, it's important to note that certain elements, such as Jamie's fear of water and nightmares, were present before viewing the Titanic movie. And when the landmark Titanic exhibit came to their area, Jamie's family went so that he could see firsthand some of what he described. Did you guys go to the Titanic exhibit when it came to Denver growing up? No. Dude, it was so sweet. They give you a passenger card in the beginning, and it's like that's who you are, and then you go through all the exhibits, you get to hang out on the ship. It's awesome. And at the end, when the crash happens, you look at your passenger card and see if you survived. I think you've told us about this. This is so funny. I know. I'm recalling this, too. I've seen other people do it on TikTok and stuff, because it came recently again. It did? Yeah. And I fucking missed it? Damn it. I believe so, because people I know were there. unless they were out of the state. I don't know. I don't think it's been to Denver in a while because it came to the Denver Museum. Now it's going to find out. I do believe that it is full time or at least a version of it is full time at the Luxor Hotel in Las Vegas. Really? So if you want to check it out. I would go check it out although the Luxor is a dumpster. It's just the Titanic bar. I mean, that's where I stayed and I was like, damn, it just looks like shit. I have stayed there too. I did see, though, that they have a new VR experience. Titanic VR. Yeah, an immersive voyage. Yeah, where the water fills the rooms around you. Which looks crazy. Yeah, it looks insane. If you could experience the Titanic in VR. But the night that his family took him to the landmark Titanic exhibit, Jamie experienced something horrible. His mother explained, I was home alone with Jamie, and he was in bed asleep. I was watching television, and then all of a sudden, I heard a bang on his bedroom wall, and it was rhythmic. It was bang, bang, bang, bang. I jumped up, I ran down the hallway, and I flung the door open, and Jamie was up on all fours on his bed, and he was staring at the floor, almost convulsing. He was shaking so hard. She continued, I didn't know what to do. I was terrified, and I didn't know if I should shake him out of it, and before I could even do anything, he screamed, and I cannot tell you the terror in his voice. He screamed, she's going down. And it didn't sound like a little boy. It sounded like a man. And I just started to cry. But after that night, Jamie began talking about the Titanic less and less. His mother explained that once he experienced the memory of the ship sinking, it was over. In an interview Jamie did when he was 19, he said, it was a horrible tragedy in history. And I'm just very at peace with it, knowing I died on the Titanic. And it's really interesting that at age 19, he still firmly believes that he was on it and hasn't continued to, like, make it a spectacle, you know? It's just something he believes. However, Jamie's story isn't exactly ironclad. One person online commented, I'd have believed this more if he started talking about the Titanic before he watched the second half of the movie. Someone else said, you can 100% figure what the Titanic looked like inside by watching the movie. I do believe people remember their past life, but sometimes watching something so traumatic at a young age can really make an impression on you. Which, yes, I do agree with. And what the fuck kind of babysitter would show a kid the second half of the Titanic? That is demented. Yeah. I mean, it would probably cause nightmares. Dude, I would like Sue. Unbelievable. However, this is really interesting. One person noted an eerie detail in Jamie's sketches. The Titanic, famous for its four smokestacks, actually had one dummy stack to make it look longer. Or larger. Longer. I guess either way. Jamie never drew smoke coming out of that fourth stack. Which is pretty interesting, right? How on earth would he know that? And it's not like he just did that in one drawing. He never put smoke on that fourth stack. Yeah, it's a really specific detail. And while you might say that Jamie's past life recollection came from the movie, it shares a commonality with other past lives stemming from traumatic events. Which brings us to our next story, which is about a past life from 9-11. As Kendall mentioned earlier, there's a lot of people who have claimed to have been somebody there at the World Trade Center. And this next case is one of the more famous ones. And this is the story of Cade, who claimed that he had nightmares about falling from a tall building, as well as seeing the Statue of Liberty and being hit by debris. He felt no pain falling from the building, because as he described it, he was already dead. Cade reported that he developed a severe fear of planes and tall buildings that lasted throughout his childhood. If he was just outside and he heard a plane, he would want to, you know, get away from the sound. He's just absolutely terrified, didn't want to be around any sort of a building that appeared tall, several stories tall even. And that went on for a long time. Another common memory for children is being a firefighter tasked with responding to Ground Zero. These children report burnt buildings, dead bodies, and bad men who burnt the buildings along with people who had to jump because they couldn't help the situation that they were in. And for some reason, this is because of an intense emotional imprinting that traumatic events leave on the landscape and the general public. Others explain it's due to media exposure that even those who weren't present or even alive at the time have some form of traumatic memory associated with the event, which triggers sort of this flashback to a past life, similar to a PTSD episode. And for others, learning about such an imaginable tragedy like 9-11 and early childhood, they'll seek answers in any way to make sense of it. And sometimes, these memories present themselves as a better way to understand something truly horrific. While it may seem like a case of children remembering their past lives is a sort of a contemporary phenomenon, it has actually been documented throughout human history. The prevalence we see in current instances has to do with the influx of scientific research into the subject itself. And even in modern cases, children can have memories and experiences that come from much earlier past lives. Anna was only nine years old when she began reporting strange visions. She had spoken about these places vividly, as if she were actually walking around where she lived. She spoke of caves, simple structures, and desert landscapes as if she came from an ancient society. Her father said it was as if she could see herself doing daily tasks in this ancient civilization. And she would just talk about all the things that she had seen. And as she grew older, Ana became reluctant to discuss her past life experiences. Once, she said there was an earthquake in her village and parts of the ground began to open, roofs collapsed as townspeople fled, and she described it as if she were witnessing it again. She woke up one morning, drew a map of her home, and translated her entire ancient language. Her parents learned of an ancient Egyptian city known as Heracleion, which this was a lost port city 20 miles northeast of Alexandria. The city's existence was only discovered in the year 2000, which was around the time that Anna was experiencing her visions. A large earthquake had sunk in the city and its original shape matched Anna's map of the ancient. Anna never felt comfortable speaking about her past life with her friends and wanted to meet another kid who had experienced similar past life memories. But recovering these memories, no matter how ancient, is not just a modern field of research. One of the best documented examples of reincarnation comes from 19th century Japan, where an 8-year-old boy named Katsugoro began telling his family that he had previously lived as a young boy named Tozo, who had died 5 years before he was born. Born in 1815 to a farmer in a rural Nakano village, Katsugoro first related his past life experience to his older brother, Otojiro, an older sister, Fuja. He said, brother, where did you come from before you were born to our house? His brother asked how he could know such things, and his sister asked why he was asking such a stupid question. Katsuguro said, you mean you don't know where you came before you were born? Before saying, I know very well, I used to be a son of Kube, named Tozo. His sister teased Katsuguro for the memory and even threatened to tell their parents. One day after noticing this exchange between the two, his parents pressed Katsuguro on his memories. He said, I was a child of Kube in Hodokubo village, and my mother was named Ashizu. And when I was small, Kube died, and in his place came a man named Hashiro. He loved me very much, but I died when I was six. Later I entered mother's womb and was born again. He even asked to go to Hanshiro, wanting to see both him and his mother again. He related many memories to his parents and even recollected about how he felt during the burial, and that his soul popped out of his coffin and drifted for a while, before he returned to his mother's womb. Katsuguro's grandmother, Suya, found his story very strange and decided to ask many of the other village elders if they have heard of a man named Kubei or Hanshiro. Then an old man from their village visited with Katsuguro's family and told them that his recollection of his past life matched perfectly with that of their son Tozo. They said the family would like to meet with them. When Katsuguro and his family finally met, tears welled in their eyes, and they said he even looked like Tozo. Hanshiro met with Katsuguro on multiple occasions and even took him to visit the grave of Kube Tozo birth father Hanshiro even took Kasuguro in one night holding him as if he was his own child And as the story spread numerous lords and scholars investigated Katsuguro claims and his stories reached far and wide. In February 1823, Ikeda Kanzan, a retired lord and well-known scholar, visited Katsuguro to hear his story. However, since Katsuguro was only eight years old and the son of a farmer, this lord intimidated him, leaving him speechless. Katsuguro's grandmother Suya told the story to Ikeda, and the story had become the basis for the original text written about Katsuguro. Even though his renown was widespread across Japan, and Katsuguro himself was offered the opportunity to become a disciple of a Buddhist monk, he declined. He went on to live a perfectly normal life as a farmer until his death. Now what's interesting is that while reincarnation is believed in Buddhism, Katsuguro's family utterly disliked Buddhism and opted for the indigenous religion of Shinto. That means that Katsuguro's story did not come from faith, so he didn't have that knowledge of reincarnation. So with so many stories of past lives specifically remembered by children that are unprompted, it seems like it just comes out of nowhere. What do we think? Do we think reincarnation is a possibility? I say yes. I believe it is a very good possibility. One that I tend to believe more than others. Other than, this is all just simulation. Run by some aliens. Wow, we're going to get to the simulation theory now. I'm just saying. That's more believable to you than reincarnation? Starting a business can be overwhelming. You're juggling multiple roles, designer, marketer, logistics manager, all while bringing your vision to life. Shopify helps millions of business sell online. Build fast with templates and AI descriptions and photos, inventory and shipping. Sign up for your one euro per month trial and start selling today at Shopify.nl. That's Shopify.nl. It's time to see what you can accomplish with Shopify by your side. I like to believe it more, but as time goes on, I wonder. Which one? Wait, you like to believe what more? I like to believe reincarnation more because I think it's more beautiful. Yeah. It's the most comforting to me for sure. I think that's probably why I believe it the most. But I'm, which we need to do an episode on this guy. This guy has discovered after consuming lots and lots of DMT that if you look into a laser beam. Who, what guy? I'm forgetting his name. Maybe one of you can Google it. This guy. But this guy has this new discovery of he has discovered. I am literally typing guy who discovered and I'm waiting for the rest. The Matrix on DMT. But this guy is really interesting. We might need to dig into him a bit more. But he claims that he has proof that. Danny Goeller. That the Matrix is real. that he actually sees computer code that just appears out of nowhere while looking into a laser on DMT. And it can only be seen while on DMT. And it's pretty wild because a lot of people have done this and they've experienced the same thing. How did we get here? Well, this is mile higher. This is how we got here. This is the reincarnation episode. Sounds like we need to do an episode on that guy. We need to do an episode on the Matrix. And this guy. Because. The DMT episode. Yeah. And this guy. That's what it'll be called. This guy. The Matrix and this guy. His name is Danny Goler. Yeah, it's pretty wild though. Like, I don't know. I think there might be something to this. Oh, well, don't do it when I'm on maternity leave, okay? I want to be there for that. I'm interested. Yeah, it's really crazy. Looking into a laser. and he's done this multiple times to confirm that it wasn't just like a random trip he had that he saw. He says I saw the code. Yep. I've still never seen the Matrix. The Matrix. Oh my god even I've seen the Matrix. I know. Yeah it's such a good movie. It is. You would like it. It's pathetic that I've never seen it. You would like it. It's like insane. It's really good. Keanu Reeves. He is a hottie. Boss. Well anyway back to reincarnation which is this episode. This guy. This guy. I am a pretty strong believer in it. I believe in it more than I believe in anything else. But again, I'm not like too... I don't find myself needing to attach myself to really any belief to the point where I'm like, oh, I'm 100. That's so interesting for somebody that plans literally everything. I know. Isn't that so weird for me? That you aren't planning your afterlife. Yeah, I don't think about it. That's wild. I just have trust that it's going to be good. You don't have trust about, you don't have that thought process, right? No, because life I know is not good. Oh. It can go very bad. And I like to be in charge of it, you know, as much as I can plan it out. But you can't, what's the point of trying to plan the afterlife or figure it out when there is no way to figure it out? Well, some would argue that if you live your life a specific way, then you're more guaranteed to go into heaven versus hell if you're committing sin or not. But you still don't know. You're not guaranteed anything. That still could be completely fucking wrong. I think there's some people who genuinely are absolutely convinced that if you follow a specific guideline, such as the Bible, and do these exact things, there is no possibility you would not get into heaven. Yeah. They are convinced of that, but they are wrong. Because no one knows. There is no... Whoa. So I'm just saying they are wrong in believing that it is 100 percent that it's because it's not proven. No one. There is no way to know exactly. I didn't mean to get aggressive there. I'm just saying like there. Yeah. Yeah. That is I would agree with that for sure. Yeah. I respect them. Like go fucking hard at whatever you believe. Like stand on business. I think you do believe there is something yeah I do believe there is something that's why I'm so confident I definitely would not put myself in the atheist category I believe that there is something and I am confident that it is something good and I can just let it happen I don't need to think much about it do you think your deeds here on this earth matter? yes I do so like the concept of karma and you like those ideas? I do like all those ideas, yeah. You reap what you sow. Uh-huh. What you put out there is what you get back. Yeah. Yep. And all those things in reincarnation kind of go together and align with what feels most right to me. But your soul's on a journey. And the things you experience in life are just part of the journey. Yeah. And that, you know, not everybody's journey's good. There's a lot of people who have horrible journeys. Yeah. And that the soul. That's for a reason. and that you get another shot at it. The soul then comes back, but maybe it takes a different form. It's like the soul putting on a different outfit each time. Yeah, exactly. And that's the body. Experiencing something new. Could be the body of a frog. Right. Could be a human. Could be some other type of extraterrestrial being we don't know about. And you know, people will hate on me for this, but when I kill a spider, I believe I am helping it to get to its next life which will maybe be something cooler. I so disagree with that. That's fine. I think I kill a moth I'm making it into a butterfly. I'm getting it it's leveling up thanks to me. I'm shortening its time as a fucking moth. So do you think that we were all spiders at one point? I don't know. That's an interesting idea. Like have you always been a human or have you migrated between animal and human? I would like to think I've been an animal and I would like to experience that after this life if possible maybe there's levels that you move up like the food chain almost well you just said yeah if a spider dies because of you is it going to be a that's what i like to mouse i don't know i think the one thing that's interesting about reincarnation is does it just go on forever or is there an end goal because i think people like to think there's an end goal to things. Do you graduate? Or is it just, because what if life ceases to exist, the universe came into existence, it could also cease to exist. Right. I don't know. I think that's kind of one of the concepts behind samsara is that at a certain point, you do break the cycle. You are able to ascend and stop living new existences on this plane. right it's it's a it's like i think regardless of if we're still chilling in this universe the point is that there's another plane that you can access once you break that cycle right right you go to another dimension or even like another planet you become an alien type or or even i mean you get crazy with it and you become like an ascended being that's not anything that we know of or can comprehend because it's a on a different plane of existence it's ethereal or whatever it is. You know, it could be... A god. Yeah, or we become astral bodies. Yeah. I like to think that the end goal is to become an astral body in our universe. The universe is ever expanding and maybe... That sounds so boring. Poor Josh. Who wants to ascend to be an astral body? That's a beautiful thought, babe. I like to think that eventually I go through a singularity and... Become a burning ball of gas. That's where I just... Well, didn't we all start as stardust? True. Good point. Yeah, we're as much the astral bodies as astral bodies are us. Just return to that. We're all just atoms and molecules and subatomic particles. So then what about the idea of free will? If you make bad choices, you believe in karma, but do you think that your soul had to make these shitty choices and you're going to get karma because you're learning a lesson, but it was already predetermined what exactly you were going to do, or do you have free will? How predetermined is it? I don't know. I think maybe what feels most right to me is the idea of it, you know, some is written out, and then you kind of fill in the blanks. It's a little mix of both. You know, where you end up, or like the big things are kind of predetermined maybe, but how they play out. But then there's the butterfly effect. That is a whole nother topic. Like where one small decision can change the entire outlook of your life. I like to think that, you know, your choices on this earth are not predetermined and don't determine things to come. They're just choices you should make to be a good person now. Do you think that your choices, like, do you believe in the idea of karma then? And if, like, you do good, you'll get good, or vice versa? I think so, but then, you know, you look around, a lot of good people get done bad. True. So it's, I don't know, I think, like, any hard and fast rules on it, like, set in stone, this is what happens. Yeah. Like, the late, great Robert Hunter and Jerry Garcia wrote, if you plant ice, you're going to harvest wind. Hmm. Hmm. they wrote that on acid. That's something to think about, yeah. They were high as balls when they wrote that. But yeah, that's such a good point too, Ian. That's like the flaw with karma. You know, there's so many good people that horrible things happen to them or they die of horrible diseases or accidents. Yeah, I don't know. Is that predetermined? The mysteries of the universe. Is it so cut and dry with all these rules or these things we try to lay out as, this is the way, this is the way, that's the way, you know? And then also, is there a such thing as an entirely new soul coming into this world? Or are we, if we believe in reincarnation, are we all reincarnated, all of us in this room on this planet? Have we had past lives? Or is there possibilities that like, for whatever, I don't know what would determine this, but something determines if a brand new soul comes into play? starting their their first whack at it right versus maybe you know the people that you consider an old soul or some of the people you know you'll describe someone as one of the best people i know i just love this person or they're they just seem to be above all of the bullshit or whatever that maybe they're on their hundredth life you know that we're all in different we've all lived different amounts of lives or did we all start around the same time and we've just been going and going and going and going who knows then there's the belief of like astrology where uh pisces is the last because it's the last astrological sign in the zodiac and then aries is the first so where we all aries then taurus then you know then fire earth air water up all the way until pisces and that's like the last one you go through the 12 and then you get into the chinese zodiac you have to go through all of the different animals and water, wood, fire. Yeah, we're very into the Chinese zodiac. We were just learning about it. I found out that I am a water rooster. You're the fire horse, people. Get ready. I don't think any of it matters. Honestly, that's such a good point. I honestly don't think any of it matters. And the more I go along, the more I'm... like the whole soul idea is really nice and pleasant to think of but part of me thinks that we're we're just the universe expressing itself like they're like in in somebody gave me a name and you know i i created this personality but at the end of the day it doesn't fucking matter at all like it's just i'm just here and then that's it and i think it's i think i think the the reality is is that it whatever it is is something we cannot wrap our brains around our little monkey brains can't possibly wrap our head around how insanely yeah complex and i think beautiful this existence is. And I think it is so much... I do believe that we're all connected and we're all connected back to the same source. But I don't subscribe to this idea of I'm a human because I'm made in the image of a human god or some type of deity that experienced itself as a human. I think we're just purely a representation of a greater life force. And that's where we return and that these individuals are just sort of a byproduct of evolution and a byproduct of genetics and the things that have happened on this planet. And I think in a lot of other planets, I mean, think about this, for example, Pluribus, the premise of Pluribus, right? The hive mind, there's no individual. they're all right they're all one entity yeah and i think that's a great example of what could be is that yes we're experiencing this individual you know sort of reality but it's just a fucking smoke screen for what what we really are and why it goes this way i don't know But I think at the end of it, we just return to what this all is. And there is no separation between you and I and anybody else. We're all part of it. Same with all the animals and plants and astral bodies all matter. Oh, I love these deep thoughts you're bringing today. That was really interesting. And that like, I think a lot of, I mean, a lot of religion, I believe is man-made. I think it's people experience things and people saw things happen and wrote it down. Because I also think there's some randomness to this. I think there's some randomness and chance and luck. And there's some just... I don't think it's as predetermined as we like to believe. I think it's very nice to package that to make sense in our heads. But I don't think it's... I do agree with you that what it all probably is, even though I like to, you know, say, oh, I believe in this. I like the idea of this. I like, I don't like the idea of that. But at the end of the day, we, in our monkey brains, like you said, aren't meant to understand. I think that's part of the purpose of life, of being alive, is to have no idea what is going to happen. I think that's so true. Because if you knew exactly what's happening, then that would just, I think, ruin any experience that you have here. Right. And you'd be such a fraud. Right. And then literally, what's the point of being here? Yeah. And so we've created religions to give us purpose. Because the human... Because we can't comprehend what the actual shit is going on here. And we want to so bad, right? Yep. Like, that's what creates every religion. Fear. anxiety and all these emotions but think about our ancestors they did the same thing they had to rationalize their existence and so they created stories and had experiences that's an interesting thought too if there is reincarnation you've had all these past lives even just your ancestors all of them have probably had their own different clear-cut beliefs about what this all is yeah well that's why you look at you look at all the religions and there's they all tie into each other they all have elements that repeat over and over and over again they're just sort of different spins on the same story in a lot of ways. So it's, I just, I just think that it's something I, what, what I feel is that there's, there's a connection, there's a spiritual connection that you can feel. And that spiritual connection is to whatever is the universe is what people use, but whatever it is there, you can have a spiritual connection with it. You can feel connected to everything. but you don't need to necessarily define it. You don't necessarily need to put a label on it. Right. There's something that you feel, and it evolves over your lifetime too. You learn more, and your beliefs evolve. But my boy DMT Danny over there has got some pretty... He's kind of making me scratch my head and want to stare into a laser around DMT. Okay, you know what? We're going to have to take a look at that soon. Because he's saying there's fucking computer code. Okay. Well, we can't get into this discussion, unfortunately. We actually have to bring this episode to an end because our dog's in the corner barking. I think he has to poop. So that's the end of this. But hopefully you enjoyed this switch up here on Mile Higher. It's been a long time since we've just been able to sort of kick back and talk openly about, you know, something that I think we all think about it. Can't wait to read all of your thoughts. It's always so interesting. But we'll see you guys next week with another one. until then keep on taking your mind a mile higher higher