#610 - Meghan Trainor Reveals ‘All About That Bass’ Doubts, Her Live Performance Hot Take & No. 1 Country Song Stories

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human. We were both in the session, both debating who should sing it. And I was like, bro, let's go to Roscoe Platscott. You sing it, you sound just like them. And then I was like, you should be an artist. And he's like, I am. And I was like, oh, he's like, you should be an artist. And I was like, yeah, I want to be, but I don't know. Hey, everybody. Welcome to episode 610 of the Bobby Cast. On this one, we will talk in depth with Megan Trainor, who has a really interesting story of moving to Nashville to be a songwriter. All about that bass hits. She's written multiple number ones for country artists. While she's had number ones in the pop world, she just released an album called Toy With Me. So make sure you go check that out. A big thanks to Megan for coming on. So here she is, Megan Trainor. Megan, good to see you. Hi, good to see you. Thanks for having me. Did you ever do or try out for any of those idol, the voice type shows back in your early? I was too scared. My publisher, Carla Wallace, who back in the day, who was in Nashville, she would always tell me like, you should be on the voice. I'm like, I'm not, I don't have that voice. Like I have like a pretty voice, but I'm a studio rat. Like I can take, I can re-sing it and edit it and make it sound perfect. I'm not like Whitney that wants to sing or Ariana Grande, who can sing in the bathroom and just belt like a whole huge hit song. So, I mean, that's what I feel like I can't do. So performing for me was always way too scary. And I was like, I'm just, I'd rather write a song. Was it not about performing for you way early on? I mean, did you want to be a songwriter more than on a stage? I think I was so insecure and so hard on myself that I didn't picture myself on stage actually singing and dancing and having fun and people singing my songs with me. But I would always perform growing up. Like I would perform my songs on my ukulele or it had behind the guitar or piano. And then with all about that bass, that was the first time I had to sing and dance and do everything. And it was like such a, this feeling to me, like such a weird new experience. But I like love dancing, but I never took a dance lesson in my life. So I learned, I learned what I could do and just kept proving myself wrong. And I was like, oh my God, I'm kind of badass. And I was like, let's keep going. And I recently shot a music video for a new song called Shimmer. That's very heavy dance. And I trained for like weeks because I knew I was like, I am not a trained dancer from birth. I'm going to have, and I want this to be really hit dance heavy video. And so I trained for weeks to like nail it. How did you feel watching yourself back on camera once you finished the video? Or you were like watching takes of it? Did you like watching yourself dance? For all about that bass back then? Yeah. No, no, no. The new one that you've, the new one. Oh, I'm hyped. I'm so excited. I can't wait for everyone to see it. It's coming out with the album April 24th. Tore with me. But this song is called Shimmer and she's, she's a Bippity Bop. She's upbeat. She's kind of like me too. My song, If I Was You, I Wanna Baby. It's like her cool older sister. And I'm so proud. It's my favorite music video I've ever done in my entire career. Do you, will you watch performances back to game tape yourself to see how you did? Yeah, sometimes. Or I don't, I was just talking to an actress about this because a lot of actresses are like, I don't watch my TV show I'm in. And I was like, I can listen to my songs all day long. That's fine. And when my kids play it and I can watch my music videos because I edit them and they're what I picked and they're perfect in that way. But like a random TV performance, I'm like, I'm not popping that off for fun. You know, I'm not like, oh, let's get into it. Cause you don't have any control really over those and like the edit. And so those scare me a lot. Like I have to go perform the song shimmer on a TV show coming up and I'm terrified. Where did you grow up? Nantucket Island, Massachusetts. And you moved to Nashville from, from home? Yeah. I grew, all my friends were in college at that point. And I was at home traveling to LA and Nashville to do songwriting weeks. Like one week at a time. And I was just like, man, I'm the farthest thing away from California. Like I'm on Nantucket. I had to take like a boat and then a plane and then another plane. Like, I was like, can we just move a little closer? And my parents are like, actually not, you're not living in California at 18 years old. But they agreed to Nashville because my publishers were there. They were like family to us. So they took care of me and I got my own apartment and was like a big girl. And then while I was there on under a year, I remember it was like exactly a year to my move and date. We were moving out of there to go to California because all about that base was like already becoming a hit. And I was like 19 when they released it. Did you write that song here in Nashville? I wrote it in Nashville, Kevin Katesh, 45 minutes away from my little Belle Belle View apartment. And I remember like being like, why is this studio so far away? And I was such a fan of Kevin Katesh because he wrote Stacey O'Rico Big Hits and Jason Moraz Big Hits. And I was like, this is sick. Like I'm with a big songwriter and he was awesome. And we just met and we bonded over like being chubby as kids and being insecure. And I was like, I wish they played like do-op stuff on radio. And I wish they played this music and he was like, I love that music. And then we wrote all about that base and like under an hour. And I remember leaving being like, do you like it? And he was like, I like it. You like it? And I was like, I think so. But we kind of I thought like, well, no one's going to cut this because no one looks or sounds like this and it's very specific. So I thought like I failed as a songwriter lyrically. I was like, it was all like a VG pop on the radio at the time. So that's why I went sorry. And he was like, no, I love it. It's great. And I was like, OK. And then like nine months later of pitching the song, everyone being like, we love it, but we don't have an artist that could sing this. L.A. Rita Epic Records was like, well, who wrote it? Just go find her. And then they started hunting me down and they found me. You pitched out for nine months before you cut it yourself. He has a long time of having that song on there. Any holds from anybody or any like possible holds? I don't think so. But I remember my Carla was always like a believer and would shoot for the stars. And someone was like, we're going to send this to Adele's team. And I was like, I doubt Adele will sing this, but it's sure awesome. I can't wait. Yeah. But there's no way she ever heard it. When you were living in Nashville, were you doing any sort of songwriter rounds? And did you ever consider I'll just I'll just write for country music? Is that ever a thing in Nashville? It felt like you had to do songwriting rounds, like just to get your name and songwriting skills out there. So luckily I could perform with my ukulele or a guitar and I would do it. But I remember hating it because I was the youngest and everyone was so talented. And I would always be like the last to go. And I was like, well, and mine would kind of be like half a comedy set of me just like, and like, OK, guys, well, I hate following them. This sucks. And I'm 19 years old. And here we go. I just moved here and I hope you like it. And the crowd was always so nice. And they're always like they're they're they're really kind to me. All the other songwriters being like, it sucks how good you are at 19. Like you're annoying. And I was like, thanks, guys. But I was so scared, so terrified, because it's like at restaurants where people are eating and talking and you're like, here's my life fashion. Is that a thing when you moved to Nashville? Was it for you whenever you look around and everybody's so good here? Like you can go anywhere and everybody is so good. There are people that haven't made it and that are older now that are still so good and you wonder how do they not make it? Is that intimidating when you move here as a kid? Yeah, I was so lucky that I was with Carla Wallace and Big Yellow Dog because they had Josh Kier. And he was so nice to me that he was willing to talk to me. I was like the new baby on the team. And it's like those houses, you know, like the publishing companies are like a big house. And so you're just looking in the bedrooms and you're like, hey, guys, and they're all writing songs. But any chance I would get to talk to him, I was like, hey, Josh, oh my God. So what's it like when another artist sings your song? Like, do they ruin it? And he's like, sometimes. And I was like, no. He's like, and I was like, OK, do they change lyrics on you? And he's like, sometimes. And I was like, oh my God. And then he always told me like it only takes one and you never know which one it's going to be. I was like, really? That sucks. That's crazy. And then like I never even thought all about the bass was going to be heard. I thought that was like my weakest song I had compared to all my other pop songs. I was like, even my family was like they like the bass one. I was like, mm hmm. How did that grow? Because it was I mean, it was viral before things actually went viral. Am I remembering that correct? Yeah, it was weird. It was a weird just like lightning strike moment that I think Facebook helped a lot because people were sharing the video going, you got to see this. And I think it was like bold and so different than what was on the radio at the time. It was a lot of like EDM pop songs, which I loved. So I was like, this will never work. But the music video was so different. I remember they were like, we want big pastel colors because that's what's in right now. And I was like, I wear black. Like, I don't understand any of this. And the video just got tossed around. And then I remember Justin Bieber did like a random remix of it on YouTube. And I called my brother and I was like, all right, you have to drop out of college now. Like this is it. I'm successful. That's going to happen. We're going to have to live in LA together. He was like, all right, meet you there. What's the difference in the music culture going from Nashville where it's everywhere to Los Angeles? I used to ask everyone, like, do you love living in Nashville? Do you love living in LA? And I remember everyone in LA loved it. Everyone in Nashville was like, you know, it's a small town. People everywhere knows everyone in the weather is tough because it's very bipolar. It switches up all the time. And but everyone in LA was like, I love LA. And I was like, really? And I love California because the weather and it's great, but I don't go out much. And the songwriting scene, my only complaint is that they want to start so late. And I want to start at 10 a.m. And Nashville was better at that. They would go home to their families, you know? We'd be like, let's wrap up at dinner time. Let's go home. Yeah, a lot of 9 a.m. to 3 p.m., 4 p.m. in Nashville. Yeah, that's what it should be. But a lot of people in LA don't want to wake up because they don't have kids like me. I'm like, I've been up for five hours. So if you could just hit me to hop over here, we could get into it. Yeah. Are there, because I guess if you're a new artist and you're living in Los Angeles, it's got to be so different than a new artist living in Nashville, where there are all these places here where if you're new, you can go get yourself on a list. You can go watch the Bluebird. You can you can learn and find your people. And LA, it feels like that would be a little different. I did the Bluebird. That was terrifying. I was so scared. And yeah, in LA, there's not a lot of places where I was sent to to go perform. But I was lucky enough where my song went first. So I had to catch up to my song. And I, like a lot of people knew all about the bass, but they didn't know Megan Trainor. They didn't know me at all. Even when I would literally sing it on stage, they would, I would come off and they'd go, you sing that song. And I was like, mm-hmm. Then I was the bass girl for like six years. And then just, oh, that's the bass girl. And I was like, okay. And now 10 years later, are you Megan Trainor? And I'm like, oh yeah, you know my name. You played the Bluebird. Tell me about that. So scary. Carla Wallace got me in. That was my, I was like, I'll do that. I won't do the voice, but I'll do the Bluebird because I know Taylor Swift was there and it helped her. And I did it and I was so scared. I think there's nothing worse as a performer for me than a small, tight, tiny room. And what a tight, tiny room that is where you can like see people breathing and drinking and you're in their face and you're like, here's my soul. But I got through my performance. It's just me and a guitar, nobody else. And you're just so scared. But my mom said I nailed it. And I didn't like get anything out of it. Like nobody was like, I want to sign her after that. But I got like the street cred or I got the cool points of like, I've performed at the Bluebird too. I know what everyone's talking about. Did you do the stage or the round and inside the circle? The, the, I don't know. I was in a tiny, tiny little room and it was like one songwriter at a time. So I didn't have to wait for other people to sing in a row, but they would come up and sit. And then I went up and I sat. Still on the stage? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that is, I think people are surprised sometimes when they come to the Bluebird because it is famous, but it's tiny. Tiny, tiny. Yeah. It's like singing for your classmates, which is also my number one fear. And for an English project, they were like, let's write a poem. And I said, I'm going to do one better. I'm going to write you a song. Immediately regretted it. I got in there with my guitar and was like, oh God, it started panicking because it's all my high school mean friends. And then my throat and my chest got really red. And one boy after I sang, I was like, did it. He was like, why is your neck so red? And I was like, oh, hang on. And I got an A plus. I was like, I'll forever hate singing for high schoolers. How long ago did you start on this record? This new one, my new album? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, like God, right after tour. So like almost two years ago now. What's the starting point with this last one? Did you find a song or just like, what was, okay, I think we're starting on the new record. I'm always like, onto the next. I think Capricorn just like, keep it going. The hustler just like, can't stop working. The problem I need to take a break. And my team's very supportive. They're like, yeah, we'd love another album. I signed a new deal with Epic. So I have three more albums with them. So that like inspired me. And then we just kept saying after tour, like, let's get the band back together. Like I miss me performing with a band. So then I tried to write all these songs with like real instruments. And I was also doing a Christmas orchestral album that, that'll come out later. And so I was inspired by that. But doing two albums at one time was a mind mess up. That was really hard. So I started writing these songs. And then I realized I was doing a lot of private gigs at the same time too. And when I would perform on my hits, they're all over the place. They're like, dear future husband do up to like, I'm going to lose you on the piano to no and me too, which are like pure pop, like in sync pop, you know. And so I was like, these two girls are alone. So while writing the album, I was like, we got to write them some friends so that when I do these sets, there's more of like, this makes sense. I think all my songs are all over the place sonically and different genres, which is fun. But it's hard to like pick an outfit for that. And it's hard to make a stat list where they make sense. So I also took all my hit songs and tried to write them a sister on this entire album. With All About That Bass, do you ever sing it differently to match the other music? No, All About That Bass, I always keep OG. I've added like a beautiful Disney intro sometimes to hype it up and be like, do you remember 10 years ago I released my first song and then the crowd starts to hype up and I'm like, you weren't even born and neither were you. Because I could tell they're like eight. Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor. And we're back on The Bobby Cast. What do you think about when you go to a concert and your favorite artist changes the melody of your favorite song? I get it. You could change it a little. You could change it. I understand if you change it because it's hard to sing, like how Adele sometimes will do it and Harry Styles does that all the time too of like, that's impossible to sing every night. Let me change the melody so it's easier and more realistic. I've done that a bunch, but don't change it to be interesting. I don't know. I want to, I was like, I studied this in the car. I don't want to pull up and here's what I knew. It's hard. It's very back and forth and it's all everyone's opinion. So you can't please everyone. I have some friends that have been playing their hits for like 20 or 30 years and they just wipe them out of their set list or they just get bored and that's why they do it differently. And like, I get it, but it's like, I'm like 10 years deep. What about? Well, he won't even play a new song. He just played, he's like, look, I play for the fans. So if he has a new project, he might play one new song and then he plays all hits for three hours and he plays them exactly the way that everybody knows. And he's, you know, and he would tell me, he would say, I would rather sometimes play them differently, but it's not about me. It's about everybody that came to a show. Cause me, I would, I would get bored and want to change it up a little bit, but I, hearing him say that, like, I thought that was super cool. Yeah. Also, we're, we're living in Groundhog Day, you know, it's like, it's going to be the same lyrics no matter what till I'm 70. I'm going to be singing, you know, and, and I've come to terms with that and I'm okay with it and what gets me going. I think what Garth is explaining is when the crowd is so hyped and so happy that you're still in shock. Like I cannot believe you still know these words or like the new generations come up with you and like they're six years old and you're like, this song came up before you were alive and they know all the words. It just gives you a whole new energy and a whole new high where you're like, I have to do this for the rest of my life. If you're writing, are you going melody first or lyrics first? Just generally speaking, depends on the day, but I always struggled with lyrics. Obviously, like right in the beginning when they were like, you're there, still make sense. I was like, I don't read enough books. I hear you. But I was always a melody queen. Like in Nashville, I was the melody girl. And so I know that my weakest link is lyrics. So before my songwriting sessions, I've been going on Pinterest lately. I used to do some magazines because Esther Dean taught me this amazing songwriter. I go on Pinterest and I type in cute, like cute hot girl captions for Instagram. Or and like they come up with the cutest things or like I saw shares quote where she's like, hey mama, I am a rich man. And I was like, we need a song called Richmond. And I wrote a whole anthem about it. That's like, I don't have any man making me money. I do it myself. And I love getting concepts like that. And I'll make a whole list of night before and I'll go in with my songwriters and go, I love this concept. What do you think? And usually I had to teach the songwriters not to do this for me, but usually they'll come in and go, they'll just yes, man, the artist. And they're like, yeah, do you want that on your album? You're probably going to cut it. That's exactly what we should do today. And I started asking, they're my friends at this point. I was like, can you not just say yes to all my ideas? Can you push me? Can you say, no, we shouldn't talk about this because this is interesting. And no one said this in a while. And then they started doing that. Someone with all the success that you've had, do you ever just pull up Rhyme Zone in a right? Hey, yeah. What do you mean? I think, uh, yeah, every now and then sometimes I really don't need it, but some, especially if I'm writing for like a movie, I've been writing it recently where it's like, I have to write specifically about a Christmas movie or something that's like about elves. I'm like, okay, well, Rhymes with hooves, you know, and I'll just get lost. But if it's like a pop song that I know the concept, I know what we're talking about, I can like fly through it. But yeah, if it's, if it's a tricky one, I'm like, the rhymes on it, I don't understand where we are. What is your hardest song to sing? And you look back and go, man, I wrote that really hard. Me too. Going, hate it every time. And then all the song, I screamed that part. And I, after I'm dancing and singing it, I'm like, well, who did? Hey, yeah. Why am I singing this? Like my ad libs are the death of me. And in the studio, I'm sitting, I could scream it out and I go, damn, that sounds good. And then live, I go, I hate myself. And hate that I've done this. I was like, I'm going to do a lullaby next album. This is crazy. If you're sick, will you change the key of a song? Night of, if you can't quite get there. If I'm sick, I don't, but I will go, you're singing tonight. You know, I give it out while I go, and what? And I, you could tell them sick if I got crowd participation throughout the whole song. You ever have to go and hop into like a, or have them bring you an IV or do a shot like right before show? Yeah, I had two IVs the last tour and I was on steroids like the week because I was so sick. I was on antibiotics and steroids for like two weeks straight in the middle of it just to get by. But I remember like voice was shot and I took the steroid for my like sign it like whatever I had, I was so ill because the kids were ill. And I remember the steroids kicked in and I went, let's do this. And my voice sounded impeccable. And they were like, who's sick? Not you. And I was like, no way. Until the next day, if I ever have to do, oh my gosh, there's one show I was like, uh-oh. Like in the middle of it. Yeah. I, oh, I've squeaked like a clarinet and been like, and I just got whoops. And just keep going. Whenever you put out a record, because again, it's not a song because people can listen to a song in three minutes, but you're going to have this entire record. How, how quickly do you look to see if people like it? Like what's a good amount of, I put out a book and that's the worst. Cause you got away like weeks. You have to, you got to put out wait weeks to even see if it's any good. What about a record? Man, there's, there's songs are like it. I have no idea if anyone is hearing it. I put it out two singles so far and I have no idea if anyone's heard it. And it is the worst part of all of this is like, there's no, I told, I keep telling my managers cause they're like, why are you going crazy? And I'm like, cause there's no like you hand in your report card and you get a grade. There's no like you're doing great, sweetie. There's none of that. It's all like, hope people are hearing it when there's so much chaos going on the world. And my managers are straight up telling me like, listen, there's a lot of traffic out there. There's a lot going on. The world's different. We don't know how to promote music anymore. We don't know how to get you heard. And all we can do is try. And so I'm like, well, so I'm just doing tick tock. I'm hoping people use the sound. Like that's where I go. I'm like, okay, 10,000 people have heard it cause they use the sound, but that's not a lot of people. And then what also helps me that keeps me going is I'll meet random people like outside at the mall or at a store and they go, oh my God, my daughter will not stop playing, getting girl. And I go, the news home really? And they're like, yeah. And I go, I don't know if anyone's heard it. So that's really all the only information I get on if I'm doing okay or not is strangers being like, my daughter won't leave me alone with this one. Am I crazy? Didn't you write a number one country song? I did. Well, is rascal flats? What was with Shay? Yeah, Dan and Shay wrote it with Shay. And I said, boy, you sound, we were both in the session, both debating who should sing it. And I was like, bro, let's go to rascal flats cut. You sing it. You sound just like them. And he was like, okay, I'll sing it. And I was like, it's nice to have a break cause I was always singing in the sessions. And then I was like, you should be an artist. And he's like, I am. And I was like, oh, he's like, you should be an artist. And I was like, yeah, I want to be, but I don't know. And every session they would say that to me because I'd be the session singer. And they're like, why aren't you putting this out? And I was like, I don't have like a label or any of that stuff. What was the song? Was I like to sound? What was the song? I like the sound of that. Yeah. Like that kind of relaunched those guys because they, you know, got older, had some rough years and I'm friends with them. So I can say this. That song, that song kind of relaunched their career. Were you writing a bunch for other artists in the country space at all? Or was that just a write that day? That was like a write that day. And I think having all about that bass be released and having like the hype of all about that bass definitely helped, I think get me the cut. And because it was like such a cute, great song that and Shay killed the vocal, wrote it with Jesse Shack into, I loved him. He's always supported me since I was like 15. But I think the all about that bass being released helped that I'm guessing because I remember being like going to the publisher. I believe in him with Allison who hooked this up and she played me their voice on my song with Carla Wallace while all about that bass was out. And I just like, how are all my dreams coming true right now at once? I couldn't believe it. Like I was crying, listening. So that, that one was just crazy. Yeah. And Lauren Elena, that same crew, Jesse Shack and we wrote one for her with her. And she is amazing. Yeah. Which one was that? I don't know that. Take the road less traveled. You wrote, wait, you wrote road less traveled? Well, hell yeah. My mind is a little bit blown. Cause I knew that you had written with Shay. I mean, I was just with Lauren yesterday cause Lauren just had a baby. So her and my wife are, they took, and so we're like very baby centric over here. And so Lauren, I was just talking with Lauren. I didn't know you wrote that too. So what, it could have, I don't know how, how, how you left. Like with that success, did you think maybe I'd stay in Nashville and crush in it? I know I had to, I had no choice. I had to go like to Germany and promote all about that bass. Like I was gone. I was waking up in a different country. We were like, I don't know the maps, you know, I don't know where I am. And they were like, speak these different languages and say my bass song. And I was like, okay. So I was at a rocket ship and I just had to go and I was terrified. Last question. What's the most fun stage of a baby? I mean, you haven't got smiles yet, right? No, just if there's farts and that's the end count. I'm at two months and she just started smiling and it starts at the side. It's like, and it's the, it's like, it takes over your whole body. That'll be your first joy in life with your baby. When they look at you, they recognize you and go, ah, and give you the best smile ever. So that's fantastic. But when they're like, sitting up to, oh my God, you could play together. Because for a while they're just helpless bobbleheads, you know, and you're like, oh my God. Megan, thank you. Rootin' for you. Hope, hope everything's awesome. And hopefully I'll see you soon. Thank you so much. You're the best. The Bobby cast will be right back. This is the Bobby cast. All right, that was great from Megan trainer. I also wanted to take a couple of minutes because the ACMs are coming up. And so I'm going to play a clip from each of the winners so far. This is ACM new male artist of the year, Tucker Webmore. And it was really cool to see Tucker win this award. In this clip, you'll hear Tucker and I talking about his family background, where his love for music came from. And if his mom supported his music career, which by the way, she's the one that also surprised him with the ACM award. I believe it was in London. So that was way after we did this. But here you go a little bit with Tucker Webmore. What are the Webmoors known for? Oh, gosh. That's a great question. Take your time. I struggle with Thanksgiving. Yeah, I asked you a really hard one. That's a great question. I mean, it's going to sound cliche, but just being kind, I guess. My family's great. My mom's an angel. My grandma's known by everybody in the county. I don't know, just live in life day by day like everybody else has ever known for. What's your mom like? She's one of those people. I feel like the good Lord has filled her cup with so much love that she doesn't have any choice but to like spill it on to others. That's the kind of person she is. You know, always thinking about other people. Very selfless. My number one fan. Always, always in my corner. Was she super supportive of you when you wanted to start doing music? Yeah, she was the one that was like, absolutely go do it. Did you go to her with, hey, I'm thinking about doing this or what do you think about me doing this? I'm going to do this in front of you. Like, how did that go? Yeah, so it was after I dropped out of college. I was playing football in Montana and I'm getting injured like we just talked about. And then I moved back home and then started playing music again, because I started playing music when I was like 10 or 11 years old. I started on piano, guitar, trumpet. I started writing a bunch after college. And then I remember sitting her down on a couch like we're sitting right now. And I was like, mom, I think I want to do this music thing. And she goes, I've been waiting for you to have this conversation with me. Because, you know, even back in the day, she would always push me like, hey, you kind of got something. So you should pursue that. I'm like, but football, you know, I want to play ball. And then it was kind of like a sour relief for her, I feel like, because she wanted, she wanted me to do that. And, you know, she saw something in me that I didn't really see at the time. And she was very supportive, helped me drive down from Washington. It took us like three or four days. And I had COVID actually during that whole trip. So she did most of the driving. I think I did probably four hours of driving total. But she she helped me move and then, you know, paid some bills when I first moved to town because I had no money, just a handful of songs and a dream. Did she do music? Uh-oh. She wasn't musical at all? No. Then how were you playing instruments? Well, like I have no idea. I guess. OK, so I grew up in the church. My grandpa was a pastor and, you know, being around the church my entire life, literally every single day being on the church and my grandma would sing the hymns. And I grew up in a Samoan family. So they're very, I don't know if you ever hung out with like a group of Samoans. I never have. It's it's a bucket list item. I usually hang out one at a time with Samoans. Never done. I've never done a group. Yeah. It's it's a it's a fun time. Are you Samoan? A part Samoan. Like in your heart, though, like when you look in the mirror, do you see a Samoan guy? I'm definitely a mutt in a lot of ways. I don't I don't know. I mean, I grew up around Samoan culture my whole life, especially like in the summertime, always, you know, doing cookouts and listening to reggae and, you know, all my aunties and uncles and, you know, what's a huge family type thing? And we had to answer a question. I mean, Samoans are very musical people and very loving people and giving people and, you know, I just grew up around that. And it was it was kind of one of those those things were like, I've said this before, but. We'll be sitting in the in the living room after Sunday church. We just had early dinner and watching football and somebody would start singing Amazing Grace. And then the next thing you know, the whole family is just harmonizing. Amazing Grace in the living room kind of kind of thing. So I definitely grew up around that. And I think that's my that might be where it kind of stems from. But I definitely found my own love for music. Next up is the 2026 ACM new female artist of the year, Avery Anna. Now, I'm a massive fan of Avery and her music. And I think I first saw her, though, on TikTok months ago, doing an Ozzy Osbourne cover. And we talk about it in the long form of this, which you can watch on Netflix or go back and listen to the whole podcast. But just a big fan, you know, her origin story is crazy because she started her career moved to Nashville at such a young age, like a teen like 17, I think 16, 17 and blew up overnight. So here's Avery and I talking about her move to Nashville and the pros and definitely the cons of going viral. You just knew you wanted to move to Nashville. No, I didn't. I didn't even know this was a possibility for me. I didn't think I was that good. I always loved music. And it was music was more of like a like breathing. Like I said, for me, it was a very private thing unless I was singing in church. And when I went viral for singing in the bathtub during covid. And then I got in contact with my managers and I signed a record deal. And I moved like after I signed a record in that order. In that order. And within the span of six months, I got in contact with my managers October of 2020. And then we like started releasing some music. And then I had like every now and hence I had like every label in town wanting to meet with me. And I met with like, I think we did like 13 Zoom meetings. And then I signed with Warner. How do you pick a label when you're only meeting with them over Zoom? I don't know. I don't know. I just I am a very spiritual person, very like intuitive. Like I trust my gut most of the time. And I just felt really good about Warner and they just felt very endearing and like they actually cared about what I had to say, not just kind of like wanting to sign a viral sensation and let it be what it is. It felt like genuine. So I signed and then I moved and I didn't even know like I knew about the Grand Ole Opry, but I didn't really know that Nashville was like the place you go to become, you know, a country music star. I guess I should have known that, but I just didn't really like put the pieces together in my head. I didn't even know what I wanted to do with my life. And then I was just like, this feels right. And I moved and I lived in the house by myself for like, well, I was finishing school. I was 17. At 17. Were you emancipated? No, no. My parents are very supportive of me. I just have three other siblings they had lives to do and work to do. And I am self-sufficient. I was just like, I just, I'm very indecisive. Like I said, I brought two records, but that was the only decision in my life that I've ever been like, this is the right thing to do. And I know it. And I remember telling my mom that and everyone in my family, like my extended family and our friends and everyone in my town thought that I was crazy and that my parents were crazy for letting me do that. But I think both of my parents and myself just felt a lot of peace that it was like the right thing. I don't know. What does Nashville like when you move here and start to see other people who are doing what you're trying to do? It's really cool. You would think that it's intimidating and it is at times, but I just feel like the little girl inside of me that wanted to talk to everyone about Patsy Klein that no one really cared because everyone called me grandma growing up. I just loved the classic country, but everyone here has their own, you know, music taste and everyone's really passionate about it. And there's so much talent. It was just really like creatively. I was like very, very stimulated and it was, I was just starry eyed at it. I'd never even been to the side of the country. So I didn't know that there was this many trees here. And I remember I was like driving down the road and I was like, one of these days, I'm going to plow down one of these mailboxes and trash cans because the roads are so narrow too. It's a lot of things that I was a very big culture shock for me going from Arizona to like Tennessee. What do you do at 18, 19 years old here when you're living by yourself? When you make friends, right? Do you go to songwriter rounds? Like, how do you make your circle? I, I met a lot of my friends at church, but it was really hard for me because I wasn't going to school or anything. So it wasn't like I had like people my age to socialize with. I was really just writing all the time with people that were, you know, late 20s, 30s, 40s. So all my friends were way older than me. Cause I consider like the people that I write with my friends and like my brothers too. So I remember I, my first co-write was with Ben Williams and Andy Sheridan and they're still like my big brothers to this day. So that was really cool. And yeah, I met people at church and I like went to the grocery store and didn't know what to buy and I was like, I bought avocado and some apples and beef. I still don't really know how to cook cause I'm touring now and I don't really need to. But yeah. What's it like to go viral? Um, looks fabulous. I'm sure you totally understand, but it looks fabulous when you're on the other side of the screen and when you're looking at all the millions of views and likes and it's really cool because it gave me my career, really did. So I'm really grateful for what it is. But the adrenaline dump after going viral is, is a big thing too. That was challenging that I wasn't anticipating. What do you mean by that? Um, it's interesting to go from music being something that you do for fun to all of the sudden it's your livelihood. And when you go viral, um, it's instant gratification. It's very stimulating. You are kind of on like a cloud nine. And then if your next video only gets a thousand views rather than two million views, it's like, Oh, if this gave me my success, could it also take it away? And that, um, that thought was something that I struggled with a lot in the beginning. And I, uh, I was very, um, conscious of what I was posting and, and trying to, you know, still be as good as I was when I was mega viral. And I don't know, you kind of just learn the longer that you do it, that it's just, it all comes in waves and what's genuine and authentic will always work for you. And if you're trying to be something else, if you're trying to be viral, if you're trying to, to be, you know, commercial, if you're not, if you're trying to be artsy, if you're not, it's just not going to work. You just have to really go with your gut and say what you want to say and not just say something to say something. You know what I mean? Yeah. And not just add to your feed because you feel like you need to add to your feed. Right. Not just, I think that that's a very, um, it works for a lot of people and a lot of people have found success that way from being consistently posting every single day, like three videos a day. And, and, um, I had a lot of pressure to do that very early on and it just, it's just not right and it's not natural for people to, like, surely no one has something to say three times a day. No, I don't. And I have to talk for six hours a day. I don't either. And I feel very, it sucked the creativity out of me until I realized how to set boundaries with it. And we're back on the Bobby cast. Now let's get over to Stephen Wilson Jr. who already won his first ACM this year, taking home the Visual Media of the Year Award for his music video for his song, Cuckoo. Stephen has a very interesting origin story because he was a scientist who dropped his career to chase his dream of being a musician. I'm a big fan of this guy. And I asked him if he had any idea what he wanted to do for a career when he was finishing college. I didn't know exactly. When I graduated with my degree in micro and chemistry, I was going to honestly go get my medical doctorate or a PhD. That was my first, my next step. Because in, you know, the applied sciences without a PhD, it's going to be tough. That was my plan. And I ended up starting this indie rock band the last semester of my senior year of college. And what was the name of the band? Auto Vaughn. Okay. And I was a lead guitar player. Played this green Stratocaster that I still have today. And it's a Jeff Beck Strat. And we just started playing because I was playing music. I was playing in jazz bands and university. And I was a self-taught guitar player, but I was a serious jazz nerd and rock and roll nerd. And people would hear me playing in dorms and stuff. And when I moved to Nashville, I met some friends that I knew from the previous college that I went to, and they asked if I'd want to just play in this band. And I was like, sure, I had nothing better to do outside of my degree. And I was almost finished. And anyway, we started playing shows. And before we knew it, we had like a manager and we made a record. And before we know it, we were on tour with these bands. So I went and played in indie rock bands right after I graduated from college, not really planning to do that. They just, this opportunity just kind of came up. And I couldn't really say no to it. It was such a cool experience to have. But I learned, you know, how to handle a crowd. And I learned how to sing because I became a background vocalist in that band. And I was writing or co-writing the songs with the lead singer. And that's where I really, for the first time, saw a song that I'd written or co-written. And I'd see people like react to it or start singing it. And I was like, whoa, that's a new experience. And so I really became enamored with that, you know, because I was super into poetry and songwriting. I was kind of like a secret songwriter, you know, outside of my science stuff. It was my own little secret. But I wasn't singing them or anything. I was just writing these poems and stanzas. I had books of them. And my mama did that. I used to find her like writing poems on junk mail and throwing them away. And I just picked that up. And I channeled that into that band and then kind of saw those poems come to life in that band. And I was like, this is a really special thing, you know, like music and being a creator of it. I'm not sure if this is, is this my career path? I don't know. You have a job at this point. I was like a nine to five. I was working as a contracted scientist. So you were doing that while you were touring? How did you, I feel like you're a scientist, you're kind of stationary. Yeah, I was working contract to contract. So I'd work at one lab and I work at another lab for a week. And I kind of work around our touring schedule. And there is this company in town that is a staffing agency for scientists, like chemists, microbiologists and engineers. They can put like a staffing agency for anything, but specialized for the applied sciences. So, you know, some businesses and some laboratories would need a scientist, but not permanently. They just need it for like six months on this project or six weeks or maybe six days. And there's the contracts could be as interesting as you could think of as long as you could imagine. And you can take them or leave them. And they were hourly and they would get their cut and you get your cut. And you could just kind of walk away, go on tour. Maybe another contract would come in and I kept doing good work and kept doing contracts. And I eventually got one for this company, Mars, the food company. And they kept giving me contract after contract. And one day they just said, hey, we want to stop giving you these contracts and just give you an employment contract and like hire you for real. And they kind of, that was like the first time I'd ever been offered a job like that. And I couldn't, I just married my wife and kid and I had a kid, you know, a stepson through her. And, you know, I was in that indie band still. And so I made a decision to kind of leave the van and trade their life and go into full time science. And that was my life. And I was kind of doing the whole corporate thing and how long? For three and a half, four years. And I had a really great boss because I was writing songs the whole time. I could almost like work in a lab and do my work with one hand and write songs with the other. And I had a great boss that had been there for quite some time. And, you know, he kind of saw myself and him, you know, some years ago. And I think he knew where my heart was. He knew I wasn't supposed to be there in the weirdest way. I think he knew that. And he told me, hey, they're about to put the golden handcuffs on you. That's what he was really powerful metaphor. And I'm a word nerd. And he knew that I like words and that he knew that was going to do something to me. And he said, take, you know, do with that what you will. But, you know, you're doing great here, but they're going to chain you to that desk. And your dreams of being a songwriter are going to die with it. And I said that to you. Yeah. And so I said, you know, it's going to be impossible to blow your world up then. You're going to have a better car, a better house. Maybe your kid in private school. Blowing up that world is going to be very hard, if not impossible. I, I'd recommend you blow it up now while there's less pieces to pick up. And it's going to be terrible. But I think it's going to be way more terrible, if not impossible. And I, and I fear that, you know, your inability to do that later would just be a, a heartbreaking situation for you. And I just want you to know that's kind of coming down the pike. I see it like 10 years down the road for you. Just saying, you know, cheers. Have a good day. Now I put in my two weeks, six weeks after that conversation, I walked out of there. And, you know, everybody thought I was crazy. Like, what are you going to do? Like they all thought I was like going to Nestle or something. And I was like, Nestle, get you. And I was like, no, no, no, Nashville did. And I, and they're like, where are you going to, so you're going to go write songs for somebody? I was like, no, like you got a publishing deal. No, someone's cutting your songs. Right. No. Have you ever sang a song before? No. So at this point, you weren't even singing. No, I'd never sing a song for anybody in my life. And so that was, you know, that was a lot to come, to come to terms with. But, you know, it was a real leap of faith. You know, I had this, you know, what I call a great pestering with a capital P. I thank you guys. I hope you enjoyed this Bobby cast. We had a few. Thanks to Megan trainer and congrats to all those guys who already won ACMs this year. So we'll see you guys real soon on another episode of the Bobby cast. Bye everybody. Thanks for listening to a Bobby cast production.