ADHD, Screens, and Structure: Coaching a Parent of an 11-Year-Old to Set Limits and Build Real-World Skills

In this Parent Coaching episode, I'm speaking with the father of Scott, an 11-year-old sixth grader who's glued to his screens. YouTube, gaming, Fortnite, you name it. Scott's parents are concerned about his lack of other interests, growing resistance to limits, and how screen time is impacting his social development. If you're struggling to set healthy screen boundaries at home, this episode will give you a clear roadmap. Welcome to the ADHD Parenting Podcast with Mike McLeod of Grow Now ADHD and Ryan Wexelblatt of ADHD Dude. Learn about parenting kids with ADHD from a licensed clinical social worker and speech language pathologist who specializes in ADHD. No fluffy parenting advice, only practical information that will equip you to help your child with ADHD effectively. Welcome everyone. We are here with the father of Scott who is 11 and in sixth grade and welcome and let me know where you want to start. Thanks Ryan. I appreciate you having me on here. I just wanted to say that I really appreciate everything that you've done with the podcast and with your materials and I'm enjoying the membership site and I'm also looking forward to this summer because my son is going to the summer camp too. So he's really looking forward to that and we're very excited for that opportunity as well. Great and thank you. I really appreciate the feedback. My main concern with Scott and we've been utilizing a lot of stuff that we've learned and the membership site on your materials but we're just having issues. My main issue with him is he's just so engrossed in the screens and the video games and the TV and the YouTube and all the things of that nature that's just been very difficult. I'm just having a difficult time getting him off of those devices and also we're looking to see how he can really have any other kinds of interest you know because we have him in a couple of activities like Scouts and Karate and stuff like that but he really it's almost like he uses activities as just an excuse to look forward to more screen time afterwards and I'm just kind of concerned for his future. He's a typical ADHD. I mean he doesn't have a whole lot of friends and the friends he does have he he'll play fortnight with and that's the other concern too. He just really doesn't seem to want to engage with people outside of the house and I'm just looking for some ways we can maybe help ease him off of the electronics and into the world. Yeah so I number one I really appreciate you bringing this up because I think this is going to be extremely important for a lot of parents to hear you know and one of the things that I tend to find is that you know for many parents they just kind of accept this and say oh he doesn't like anything but screen so it just is what it is and that can be really problematic because when kids are on this trajectory and they are not required to exhibit any type of flexibility and they're not required to participate in things that are not screen based this inflexibility tends to get much worse with age so I just want to mention that I really you know appreciate you being attentive to this you know particularly at at this age where it's it's much easier to deal with this than it would be if we were having this discussion you know three years from now so tell me this first has he always had kind of restricted interest that you know since he was younger or is this kind of a newer thing what would you say? He's pretty much had restricted interest his as far as I can remember okay all right so so this is just part of his his profile then are there expectations in place at home for cooperation so you know in terms of you know earning screen time he has to you know be amenable to go into the activities or whatever it is or tell me tell me what's set up at home yeah it's pretty much unfortunately we've gotten to the habit of just of kind of just letting him be I mean we put restrictions on on these different devices but you know cumulatively it ends up being a lot of hours per day but you know if he if he refuses to go to an activity he does lose screen time so we kind of hold that over his head is like if you don't go to karate like you're not you're not going on your screens until tomorrow kind of stuff so we do kind of use it as uh and if he does do something that we ask him to do it's like he gets your reward with more screen time so it's I'm just it's I just would like to somehow eliminate I almost want to flip the script and having spend more time outside of screens instead of as Woody does now you know so it's yeah you know as an example I do have him in scouts and we do take him to all the outings and they had a gaming outing this last couple weeks a weekend so it was like a two two nice sleepover at the in one of the camps local camps and you know they have unfortunately brought one of those switch games to set up Microsoft a Nintendo switch so right he had the option of staying in the cabinet playing switch or going outside and playing you know like football and goes into graveyard with the other kids and of course he chose to stay inside the cabin he was like one of the only ones in there playing switch and when I've got a friend of my body said well this is a gaming outing this is what this is for so he's like well I can't argue with that but you really you know we'd like it to be outside so yeah so that's kind of where we're at yeah okay so a few things what what is is so is his screen time tied right now to you know expectations that he knows he has to meet to earn them or is it more just that you you know that you more that you threaten to take it away if he's not being cooperative it's more that we threaten to take away if he's not being cooperative okay can we set something up that you know there's daily expectations in place you know both in terms of helping around the house and for behavior and often that one of those behavioral expectations is being cooperative you know that's probably in the you know top three that I recommend to families a lot so how do you think it would work to to set that up beforehand that he understands you know in order to earn your screen time you know there's you know these are the expectations for helping around the house these are the expectations for behavior yeah I mean we could certainly do that and I think I've seen like lists where you can like have a certain amount of things that need to be done in a certain order each day and if they're not done then he he chooses not to have screen time that kind of thing so I go over this in the creating daily expectations course and then in the downloadable section there's actually examples that you know for you to see how to how to do it and there's actually a downloadable for you know older kids as well like a blank template to use if you want to use that obviously you don't have to because one of the things is you know I want you to think about that when we threaten to take things away you know that's that's my term for that is reactive parenting we want him to understand that you know screen time is not an entitlement you are owed and that I'm going to threaten and take it away when you're not being cooperative rather it's something that needs to be earned for you meeting expectations you know both for helping around the house and for whatever the behavioral expectations are so you know with that yeah I would you know we don't you don't have to discuss it right now but think about what you know what would take precedence in terms of behavioral expectations you know for him to you know to earn it because that way then you're able to shift away from the threatening to take it away you know so so that's the first thing the next thing is how much does he get a a certain amount of time a day or is it just kind of arbitrary based on the day I think it's it's pretty arbitrary at this point we haven't been good about about limiting all right so how about this how about as part of the you know establishing the expectations then it's you know they they can say you know you you meet these four expectations every day and you know you get your hour of screen time or whatever it is so keep in mind you know I always want people to know the American Academy of Pediatrics their recommendation for screen time is no more than an hour on school nights or school days no more than two hours on weekends and I think that that's reasonable because you know the other thing is I think he you know he's looking at this more of an entitlement rather than a privilege he's right right now and we want to shift that right to you know almost think of it as being like dessert right you get dessert if you finish dinner you know you don't finish dinner okay then you don't get dessert so I think that's important that that it's set up like that and that you know you're there's always some flexibility for you know time obviously but I think he needs to know that this is what you're getting during the week and this is what you're getting on weekends okay okay because part of this too okay if if he's just getting excessive time on weekends why would he ever be motivated to do anything else right so so I would say you know set that up with the understanding that he's not going to be happy about this and that's okay we don't we don't have to get into a long discussion or get into what I call like the reasoning vortex plot try to explain him the reason he's he's not gonna like it and that's okay he'll get over it okay and here's the other thing you know if he's if he's had restricted interest all his life you know we can't force him to like something he's not going to like we can't force him to be more flexible but what we can do is not accommodate his inflexibility and you're already doing that by having him involved in in activities so so I think the other piece then is to you know significantly limit the you know the screen time to you know an hour on school nights two hours on weekend days because then he's not going to have another option of things to do he's gonna have to find something right yeah right and I'm thinking it's just going to be almost like like I think you mentioned at some point you know that the ADHD kids are more prone to it to different kinds of addictions and things like that I really feel like he is at that point where he just needs to be in front of the screen because you know he'll go from one screen to next to the next to the next and if you kick him off a one he's looking for the next so I think it's going to be a process I think it's going to be difficult initially yeah yeah yeah and keep in mind you know this this is not even necessarily an ADHD thing I mean lots of kids go from screen to screen and you know we're living in a culture where this is permitted a lot it just so happens that kids with ADHD are definitely more susceptible to you know problematic gaming you know which is which is why we need to have these very stringent criteria in place for this you know like we're talking about so yeah and when we introduced these new limits I mean I'm assuming we should get him ready based on what I've learned from your material we need to sit him down and say okay here's how it's going to be or this is what we're doing this is why we're doing it yes with a definitive start date for it as well okay yeah because this is going to feel like a loss to him right he's going to have to have more in the loss of of having excessive screen time right right and again if he wants to make noise and you know and say I'm not doing him okay fine you know it's it's it's up to you whether you choose to earn your time or not you know right and it's really as simple as that yeah one thing I know he's going to say is like well how can I earn more like you know if he uses this two hours in the weekend because there are things I can do to earn more screen time is is it worth you know using it as like a reward for helping around the house or doing extra chores or anything like that or is that something that we shouldn't even I would not even go there because if you open that door then it's just going to be a constant constant negotiation of how do I get more time right so I the answer for me would be no you can't earn more time but we can talk about other things you might want to earn and and then I would you know have a brainstorming discussion with him you know do you want to earn you know working you know working towards like a Lego set or whatever it is you know keeping in mind that whatever he earns has to be rather immediate because anything outside of his time horizon you know his ability to visualize things in the future it's going to be hard to motivate him right okay you know but but let him know that you are amenable to do discussing other things he can earn but it's yeah it's not going to be screen time I guess the you know the one other thing I want to mention and there is no right or wrong answer to this but I would ask you to think about you know is is gaming the biggest problem or is it kind of you know across the board and the reason I bring this up is I tend to find that TV and YouTube is not as problematic as everything else okay he spends the vast amount of his time on TV and YouTube he basically watches other YouTubers game yeah right yeah right okay so so it sounds like maybe then it is equal across the board right what yeah okay all right so yeah and look I would say you know if it you know to show him that you have some flexibility with this I would say we can we can make you know a different you know we can give you a little you know extra time you know during you know on you know days off from school you know and and that extra time would be like a half hour right we don't want to get excessive about it okay you know and I would also you know not now but when the time comes you have to be very explicit about what this looks like for the summer and I would not change it for the summer I can tell you with my son I never did because with my son if I would have given him an inch he would have asked for you know three feet right yeah that comes to the screen time yeah I'm just wanting in terms of because the first thing it does when we do finally kick him off the screens is he's he's he really I guess he's just not used to entertaining himself will come to us and we'll we'll have to entertain him or who want to you know I and I might spending time with them but it's just like it's very difficult for him to entertain himself so I think maybe that's just because he's just used to being on screens and doesn't really have the option to figure that out but I'm just hoping you know the more time he spends off the screens the more he realizes he likes to do the more he realizes he can entertain himself and and maybe pick up other things to do so yeah and this and you know so a few things one keep in mind this might also be you know a matter of you know introducing him to some other things you know so so for instance I recently suggested to somebody to get like a wood burning kit you know this is a cheap wood burning kit on on Amazon for you know for for a boy who right you know same issue so we might need to expose him to some different things to see if anything you know catches and he might you know say well I don't like anything okay well that doesn't mean you're getting more time right so so that's the one thing the other thing I would ask is you know when he is on is getting off a constant struggle or does he get off you know cooperatively no it's it's a constant struggle okay so in executive function crash course I think it's the third video I show a strategy to help him it serves two purposes one it helps him learn to sense the passage of time but also helps to get off video games without a fight and what that is it's using an analog clock and coloring it in with two different colors so the colors represent the amount of time you have and the secondary color shows what is called future plan time which means that's when you have to start wrapping up the game in order to get off because part of his difficulty with getting off is that he's hyper focusing on something and he's not prepared for the transition so if we can make the transition external and visual that's going to help with with this so I would suggest watching that yet it's the third I think the third video in executive function crash course okay yeah and I will tell you out of everything I teach people say that's one of the ones that they're surprised how helpful it is because when when kids can you know actually see time yeah that that makes it easier I'm not saying he's going to be happy right we're agreeable to get to get off but but it'll be helpful and it's helping him develop a sense of time as well right the one thing that I know it's going to have difficulty for us is one of his good friends moved to the UK yeah and his only interaction with him is playing Fortnite and you know the UK at a time difference and stuff like that he'll call in and tell her we want to we want to play with him and he'll be like oh but it's my friends I want to hang out I want to play you know so it's just like it's I almost would I see myself caving in a situation being like okay go go hang out you know go play with your friend so well let me ask this and again no right or wrong answer to this you know can his time be used during that time when his friend is on yeah I mean for sure yeah I just if it's a situation where he's already used his time for the day and then this friend calls I see myself giving into that being like okay you know we can have additional time with your friend but right and and here's why I would tell you to be cautious with that because I've seen kids use that constantly you know to say like oh well well my friend's on her and you know you're not letting me talk to them and so on so I would you know explain to him when you you know and you know announce these changes that you know if you want to use the time so you can talk to your friend that's going to be your time for the day because again we don't want him taking advantage of this and and this could be in a constant negotiation because that's just going to get exhausting you know for you right right tell me a little bit about like what you mentioned with with scouts you said he tends to be quieter and not really engaged yeah like it when we go to the meetings he's pretty much by himself you know and unfortunately sometimes he'll bring his phone I'm trying to to remember to take his phone before he goes to the meeting but sometimes he'll be there on his phone or when he doesn't have his phone he doesn't really he's off by himself he's not really engaging with the other kids okay has this always been the case you know since earlier elementary school I feel like early elementary school he was more social I feel like he was more open to making friends and joining you know groups and and more outgoing but now it seems pretty much by himself a lot so okay the reason I'm asking is well it's two things one you know for a lot of kids with 80 each they tend to be in their heads a lot so you know for instance kids with a more in a 10 of profile what they will often do you know like during recess at school is they'll just wander around the field kind of in their own head or making up imaginary games because they have difficulty engaging in reciprocal play and for a lot of them you know it's just it's just more enjoyable to kind of be in their heads but that actually you know that eventually comes to to a stop because eventually they're going to want some some you know interaction you know the other aspect of this is if there's some social anxiety there and with social anxiety is at its core it's a fear of judgment by others so you know in his case I don't you know that why I asked you about earlier elementary school is because I'm wondering was there always some social anxiety there or was it more that he was just you know in in his head what what feedback have you had from school you know regarding his social interactions with classmates I think it's it's been pretty decent though right yeah my wife just just it seems oh well hi I'm here yeah nice to meet you you too so it's it's been it's been pretty decent I have the counselor just go in and check on him once in a while and he's he has apparently has like a steady group of friends that he sits with and yeah it seems like okay so I'm like okay maybe I don't have to worry so much about it but I don't know so let me ask this is scouts mostly kids who he does not see on a regular basis you know outside of scouts mostly yeah yeah yeah okay all right so maybe maybe he's a little less comfortable interacting with them just because he only sees them once a week possibly yeah that could be and how is he like on the you know overnight trips if he doesn't have his phone he's mostly mostly on his own as well but he does interact I mean you kind of I mean it the good thing that's the reason why I like scouts is the older kids don't let him just kind of hang out they say they say all right Scott you know Scott come over here you know we need to you need to help cook this meal or whatever they don't really let him hang out on his own he has to they force them to be involved in the activity so that's been good for him you know I think the more he goes there he's starting to he didn't that weekend that where he was sat on the switch instead of hanging out outside there were one or two other kids that wanted to play as well so he did seem to get closer to those kids so I think it's maybe just a matter of time or a situation or maybe just need to keep going and I don't know but I mean are the feedback from school is usually pretty positive both academically and socially so good okay yeah and that's you look that's not unusual if you if you don't see kids on a regular basis you know you might be a little more reserved or a little more hesitant about them but the fact that the older kids you know require him to participate I mean that's great and by the way this is exactly why I say and this is the truth I have seen scouts do more for kids and any of these silly social scouts groups out there right for this exact reason right you know so yeah so that's great okay anything else you guys wanted to discuss I guess I sometimes have problems with him like if he's not listening to me or if I I'm trying to hurry him up to get like upstairs or something like that for bedtime and I mean we try to keep bedtime consistent but it's like we get caught up in our own stuff sometimes yeah and so I'll be like oh it's past the time where he wants to where I want him to be downstairs and I'll be like hey let's go upstairs and now like tell him like every I don't mean to but it's like every minute I'm like all right let's go let's go and then he'll be like stop I'm coming and like you know like he gets like he has an outburst like that or say like in a different situation like if we were on a train or something and I tell him Scott just get your you have to get your bag out of the way and and he'll say like stuff like I already did look I can't do it anymore you know and it's obviously there's like room for him to like do it and it's it's I don't know sometimes it becomes a back and forth and I don't know I just tell you I should I feel like I should correct him but at the same time I don't want to pay to give attention to this behavior so sometimes I get confused as to what to do in those things those situations so I don't think there's a right or wrong answer I really think it depends on the situation you know and and the kind of the urgency with it I guess you know one thing I want to mention with the bedtime piece is this that there's actually a course in the membership site called better bedtime scaffolding it's just a it's just a one video and I talk about how to create a gradual transition to bed time and I think one of the things that you know needs to be discussed is that you know at this certain time every night you know this is when he needs to be upstairs so there's a concrete time he knows that's what the expectation is that he's to be upstairs doesn't mean he needs to be in bed but it means he needs to be upstairs you know and in the in the bedtime course what I basically teaches kind of how to create a gradual transition to bed you know so first we we start with you know going upstairs you can have time to you know whatever it's watch a video or read or look at a book you know so I think that might be helpful to watch that just to you know kind of create that but also have that definitive time that he needs to be upstairs and that can be different for weeknights and on weekends right okay yeah okay and and as for the other issue is it that he doesn't like being rushed you know or doesn't like being pressured do you think that's kind of the just yeah I think it's a lot of that but like it usually I'm pretty good about I'll anticipate when I have to tell him to end something I'll be like okay you got five minutes you know and then I'll keep coming you got two minutes you know and he's usually pretty good about like ending whatever he's doing at you know by that time so but yeah it's just like in these cases where like it's I realize it's past the time and it's not it's it's just it's I get a lot frantic but just you know I get upset because that like it delays my bedtime so of course yeah no it was the same way when my son was younger yeah right right so yeah I mean it's just like the frustration comes out and yeah so just one thing to keep in mind is you know when you say five minutes or two minutes you know that doesn't really mean anything to him I mean he understands what it means but keep in perspective he doesn't experience time the same way we do right right so what I had mentioned I think before you got here was in in the executive function crash course in the third video I teach there how to use an analog clock to help kids sense the passage of time because in order to help kids develop a sense of time they have to be able to see time in in unit volume and you cannot do that through a timer or through five minute warnings because they're not visual okay you know and they don't show you time in the future so that's why timers don't work for that yeah so I think if you just you know watch that that would probably be helpful with this because also really what it's doing is it's helping him learn how to you know sense time which he doesn't you know particularly when something is interesting to him right right and with the outburst should I should correct him right away or I should just I get confused as should I just ignore it or should I just like address it I don't I don't know yeah so here's what I would tell you if if he has the outburst because he feels like he's being rushed you know or because you're getting a little frazzled because you want to go to bed you know I would probably I would probably just remind him you know hey you know that's that's not the way we speak to each other and just and just leave it at that you know because I mean the reality is it's he's being triggered by something right you know and if he's getting a little flustered because you're getting flustered right you know we kind of have to we can't really come down on him for something that we're you know kind of initiating so to speak you know and I can tell you from my own experience my son is the same way like you know if I ever rush him you know I would get screamed at and then I have to remember you know I'm causing this you know but but it is okay to remind him that just you know that's not how we speak to each other in our family okay okay yeah all right you know I just leave it at that without getting into like a back and forth right right okay yeah all right yeah all right any anything else you guys wanted to cover I'm good how about you I'm thinking yeah we're pretty good but the I think one interesting aspects and this is something I've been reading just in the different ADHD materials and and and resources out there is that the whole family is ADHD both of us and and our daughter so it kind of adds another layer of complexity to to this whole thing a lot of stuff that we talked about I mean some of the stuff we know already it's just it's just hard to sometimes we're not created implementing or being consistent you know it's something we get distracted ourselves with with of course we're gonna get the band on time and stuff so yeah absolutely and you know keep in mind the more that we can kind of you know implement a structure you know for the kids and and you know it's just going to help everybody right because the the more kind of structure and expectations there are you know it helps the whole family with the understanding that you're not going to be perfect with it and that's okay you know just you know you don't beat yourself up for it as long as you know you're putting in the effort the kids know what the expectations are and things are clear to them that's what matters at the end you know at least there's there's something there and as long as we're doing our best to follow it that's what matters sounds good yeah all right yeah I appreciate thanks so much nice to meet you thanks for listening to learn more about Mike's practice grow now adhd please visit his website grow now adhd.com to learn about the services Ryan provides please visit adhddude.com you can find Mike on instagram at grow now adhd and Ryan on the adhd dude youtube channel we'd love to hear your feedback or questions so feel free to contact us at the adhd parenting podcast at gmail.com the adhd parenting podcast and content posted by grow now adhd or adhd dude are presented solely for general information and educational purposes our goal is to provide valuable insights and knowledge not to replace professional services Mike and Ryan cannot provide clinical consultation or free advice through social media or other forms of communication the information on this podcast is not a substitute for professional advice if you are your child have any medical or mental health concerns please consult your healthcare professionals