You're listening to Song Exploder, where musicians take apart their songs and piece by piece tell the story of how they were made. I'm Rishikesh Hirwe. This episode contains explicit language. Hip Boy is an award-winning producer and rapper from L.A. He's one of my all-time favorite producers, from Backseat Freestyle by Kendrick Lamar to Sicko Mode by Travis Scott to tracks he made for Beyonce, Nas, and the Jay-Z and Kanye album Watch the Throne. So I was really excited to talk to him. And when I asked him which song from his incredible catalog he wanted to talk about, I was really moved by his choice. He picked Racks in the Middle by Nipsey Hussle, featuring Roddy Ridge. Nipsey Hussle was a rapper and community activist from LA whose career was cut short, tragically, when he was murdered in 2019. He'd released just one album, Victory Lap. Racks in the Middle was the last song released in Nipsey's lifetime. It went platinum, and a year after his death, it won the Grammy for Best Rap Performance in 2020. This episode features a few short clips from a video that Nipsey Hussle made for the website Genius back in 2019. There's a link to the full video that he made in the show notes. But here in the studio to tell the story, I spoke to Hit Boy about how Racks in the Middle came together. Yeah, yeah, I go by the name of Hit Boy. I'm on YouTube a lot. That's why I discover a lot of new artists and just new music and what's going on. So, Roddy Rich, he had a song called Die Young. This is before he was signed or anything. He was just like an independent artist doing his thing. And I just kept playing Die Young every day at the studio. I would just come in, watch the video, show it to people, just share it. And I was just like, yo, this song is crazy. This kid is about to go insane in the industry. What about that song spoke to you so much? It was just raw. It was just real, authentic, you know, and that's what I respected. So I had a homie named Knowledge who was doing some A&R work at Atlantic. So he knew that I was a fan of Roddy and I was working at a studio called Chalice. That's in West Hollywood. And Knowledge told me that Roddy Rich would be at Chalice working with Future. I didn't know if I would meet him, but I was like, man, Roddy is over here. So let me just make a beat in that Roddy vein, just in case I get that moment where it's like we connect. Like, you know, I could play him a beat. That's like I know almost for certain that he'll like. When you're looking for the next thing that you're going to work on, how do you decide who you want to make a beat for? Man, honestly, a lot of my hits came from me not actually making a beat for anybody. You know, it's just like having fun with it. So I never even actually meant to be a producer. Like I just was like rapping and the kid that I was in a group with made the beats, sat down at his laptop one day and I'm like, yo, this is fun. Like prior to I started making beats, I would play video games every day after school. And I do, I look at production like a video game. The blocks looking like Tetris, that sound communication with the visual is like, it's a video game to me. And it still is to this day, just clicking these blocks. And then it's like, I just developed into me obsessing over it. So how did that change? How does that work for you when you're still trying to follow your own compass, but you also have an artist? So this is the thing. I really get charged up and I'm able to crank out a lot of beats when I know I have a specific artist coming. Like if I know they're coming to see me, that puts a battery in my back. It's just more inspiration when you know like, oh, Jay-Z want me to come through. Kanye want me to come through. Beyonce, whatever. I knew Roddy Ricch was across the way. So I'm like, let me make something that kind of feels like a progression of what Die Young is. You know what I mean? I was such a fan of that song and a fan of him off of that song. I'm like, I would like to make something with him that I feel like could fit in that world. And so when you have that idea in mind, where did you start? So I started with Shout to My Boy Corbett. I produced a lot of stuff with him. And he gave me that main choir that pretty much goes through the whole song. And it was at like a different pitch and a different tempo. So I just took it, finessed it, looped that up, and then just built off of that. How did that original sound from Corbett come to you? Corbett just sends me packs, hundreds of sounds, folders. I'll just wake up to a WeTransfer, just a bunch of sounds, and I'll just kind of load them up. And as I'm cooking, sometimes I'll try to drop stuff in and see how I can finesse the music into what I'm doing. And that was just a loop that I had. And when I just felt that initial feeling, it's like the harmonies, the blend, how he did it, the reverb on it, like everything just felt haunting West Coast, but it just felt good at the same time Then Corbett actually came and added some more like this little pluck key synth thing Then my boy G Dave came in and did the bass line. We programmed the drums together, it was kind of like a co-production in a real way. You hear the bounce on the drums, all them sounds, it's like a factory and everything is just working together beautifully. The counter lead got that wobbly sound to it, kind of pitchy. That's like a synth out of Omnisphere. Keep the momentum up and keep the melody moving. What was your intention? What are you hoping to bring out with sounds like that? Just what sounds like it's still in pocket, but just sounds weird as possible. You know what I mean? Just like, let's just keep taking it to outer space. One of the first things that we hear in the song is your hip boy producer tag. I was just wondering if you could tell me more about that. How did that come about? I had that tag maybe since 2018. I was using my tag a lot at that time because I felt like I had spent so much time before that, prior years to this song coming out and prior years to where I was at at that time in life. I was just giving away a lot of beats, basically made nothing off those beats. and so man I was like yo I missed all them years when I could have my tag on big beats you know that's so interesting I mean like because I'm somebody who always looks at the liner notes so I always all my favorite songs I know who produced so it's never occurred to me to think that you missed out on anything by not having a tag yeah because that's where the game went you know Mike Will made it but DJ Mustard Metro Boomin they all like started getting invited to festivals to DJ because they had songs on the radio, they had their tags on it. They started getting extra money because they had their branding more out there. And it's like, damn, I feel like I had missed that window. Because I used to be like, imagine if niggas in Paris had Hit Boy in the beginning. I probably don't even know where my life will be right now. You know what I mean? So whole day goes by. It's maybe 12 AM, 1 AM, something like that. It's late. And my boy Knowledge come knock at my door. He's like, yo, Roddy want to say what up? He about to to head out, but he just wanted to meet you. So he came in my room, just said, what's up? I told him I was a fan and respected what he was doing, seeing his movement, going crazy. And before he dipped, he had his backpack on and everything. It was literally like the peace out moment. I was like, let me play this beat. He was like, man, let me try something to it. Load it up. Did the hook. The same day. Right there on the spot. How did that feel in that moment to have the artist come in and record something great right away? Following my intuition has led to most of my success. And that one was like jackpot, you know? So he laid the hook. He did a whole verse to it, actually. The next day, I'm playing a song. Everybody's going crazy, my whole team. We like, yo. I was thinking about putting out a producer album, kind of like a Khaled-esque, lame, just creating collaborations. So I was like, this could be Hit-Boy featuring Roddy Ricch. And let's possibly get somebody else on it. I was thinking about who it could be. Thought about Nipsey, and it just so happened that Nipsey wanted to get in with me anyway. It had been a while since me and Nip connected, because we worked on other songs. I worked on Mailbox Money. I did a song with him and Rick Ross called A Hundred A Show. And we always had a rapport, had a respect for each other. He had rapped on one of my songs called Alert back in 2013. And I'm like, man, I got to take advantage of this relationship, man. I got to get this dude a real banger, a real hit, you know? Do you remember how you two first connected the very first time? It was a song called Thugging. I think this might have been 2008, 2009, something like that. But yeah, once we reconnected, I'm like, yo, man, I just had a point to prove at that point just for myself. I just wanted to make as many bangers as possible for all the artists that wanted to work with me. So we linked up. I played Nipsey Racks in the middle. He was like, yo, run that back. I played it for him again. He was like, bro, I need this song for my next album post-Victory Lap. because he was working on that for years. Like, yeah, that was his only album. And he was like, this song, Racks in the Middle, can help me usher in my new wave, my next moment, leading up to the new album, you know? So I just, you know, on the spot, I'm like, cool, let's do it. The story of Racks in the Middle continues after this. Nipsey and Roddy was already cool you know what I mean so they have respect for each other and everything just made sense Here Nipsey Hussle talking about when he first heard what Hit Boy and Roddy Richard made Just the way it dropped, it sounded new, but it was banging. I got killers to the left of me, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Then when I heard what he was saying, I had a song in my head for it already. I know the story he's telling and, you know, the place he represents. I know about that place, so I understand it. So he muted Roddy's verse, and he kept the Roddy hook, and he ended up putting three verses on it. Nipsey was one of the realest guys I ever met, very authentic, very gangster. He did express to me that he wanted people to know he's more than a rapper. He's a great songwriter. And that's the people I connect with the most. Some people can rap. They can go on the radio and freestyle for 20, 30 minutes and it could be amazing. But you put them in the studio and they can't make an interesting song. They can't pick the right beat, whatever it may be. Man, I feel like you got to have some producer in you, man. You got to be able to pick the right beat, the right pocket, the right tempo. understand melody. It's not just about like, let me just get on here and say the dopest punchlines. And you know, that does work for some people. It could work, but to have a song with replay value that you want to start over as soon as it ends, like it got to be something that catches your ear from the time it comes on until it goes off. And some people just like, you know, don't know how to do that. Judge ain't sympathizing. Court don't show forgiveness. As Nipsey was recording his parts, what were you thinking about while you were listening? Were you thinking about his vocal delivery or the music? What were you focused on? Like how to elevate the production to where the song is going, you know what I mean? It was a lot of post-production, especially tours once the song starts to progress. I love that little transition, that little reverse guitar. And I love the part in the verse when the drums change. The drums are there, but they're filtered. And just like what he was saying on that part, I just wanted people to hear him, you know what I mean? instead of being distracted by what the hi-hats or the drums are doing. It's just like take the highs out of the whole drum track and just let his voice be the main cadence for that part. When he talked about his friend Fats dying. He was in my studio, hoodie wrapped up, tied up around his head. He had tears coming down his face as he was writing the verse. Fats, you know, that's one of my best friends. One of the people that really believed that we could do something else besides gangbang. I feel terrible that I can't, I'm the one that just get to feel it. Fats don't get to feel it. I was really emotional rapping them lyrics. That's why I said, but I don't wipe them though. Cause that shit was running down my face as I'm rapping. I'm in the studio with Hitboy. I felt embarrassed to be tearful in front of people, but then I reassure myself because that's really from the heart. You know what I'm saying? That moment, just like when I think about it, I get the chills. It's like him losing his life not long after talking about his friend losing his life. Unbelievable, man. Man, I definitely go back into that time. I see everything, the mixing session, the recording session, him with the hoodie wrapped around his head, him sleeping in the car. I feel everything. How long were you two working on the song together, and how long did it take for it to come out? This wasn't just made in a day. It was maybe like an eight-day process of him coming, starting the first verse, didn't finish it, boom, come back the next day. Tell me he's going to come back the third day, don't show up. The fourth day, he doesn't tell me he's coming, then he shows up. It was just a process of us really turning this song out and just taking our time. He took his time to really put those three verses together masterfully. We dropped the artwork for this song right after the Grammys. So he was nominated for victory lap at the Grammys and he lost to Cardi B. And then the song I was a part of that year, Sicko Mode, was nominated. And that did not win either. And so basically, somehow we both leaving the venue, Staples Center, boom, we meet up. He right here, I'm right here. It's like, damn, that's crazy. He's like, man, let's drop this artwork. We're going to drop the song tomorrow or a couple of days, whatever it was, and let's go crazy. I knew that the record was going to be powerful. And so I think we put this song out first week of February or something like that. Not much time went by after that song dropped and he was murdered A lot of hearts are heavy today because Grammy hip artist Nipsey Hussle was fatally shot yesterday outside of his clothing store Fast forward, the next year at the Grammys, we win, but he's not there. So it's like super bittersweet. And now, here's Racks in the Middle by Nipsey Hussle, featuring Hip Boy and Roddy Ricch in its entirety. Yeah I was right around in the V12 with the racks in the middle Had to pray to almighty God, they let my dog out to kill him When you get it straight up out of the mud, you can't imagine this shit I've been pulling up in the drop tops with the baddest bitches Young nigga been focused on my check Got a new coupe wrapped around my neck Tryna put the water on my patate I got killers to the left of me Where's Larkin' on her? Ain't show no mercy on her? We was going back to back We put a curfew on her It was dark clouds on us But that was perfect for us We know you always crash and burn But it was working for us Lemo tip the V12 Double check the details Gotta cross my tears and die my eyes Or I can't sleep well Millions off of retail Once again I prevail Knew that shit was over From the day I dropped my pre-sale Hold up, let the beat build See me in the street still I've been fighting battles up a steep hill They gave my road to Arm 12 was a sweet deal. And I've been riding solo trying to rebuild. I was riding around in the V12 with the racks in the middle. Had a freighter almighty God, they let my dog out to kill him. When you get it straight up out the mud, you can't imagine this shit. I've been pulling up in the drop tops with the baddest bitches. Young nigga been focused on my check. Got a new coupe wrap around my neck. Trying to put the water on my patate. I got killers to the left of me. Yeah, look, under no condition, but you ever catch me slippin'? Motocated shooters plus the Maybach chauffeur driven They catch me with it, gon' send me off to prison Judge ain't sympathizin', court don't show forgiveness Engine in the Lambo, drownin' out the music Sip Dior with the flowers, five gold Cubans Champagne while I shop, hope I splurge foolish Closing escrow twice this month, both commercial units Damn, I wish my nigga Fast was here How you died 30-something after banging all them years? Grammy nominated in the sign of shedding tears. All this money, power, fame, and I can't make you reappear. But I don't wipe them dough. We just embrace the only life we know. If it was me, I'd tell you, nigga, lay your life and grow. I'd tell you, finish where we started, reach them heights, you know. And gas the V12 to the pipe and smoke. I was riding around in the V12 with the racks in the middle. Had to pray to Almighty God, they let my dog out to kill him. When you get it straight up out of the mud, you can't imagine this shit I been pulling up in the drop tops with the baddest bitches Young nigga been focused on my checks, mm-hmm Got a new kook wrapped around my neck, mm-hmm Tryna put the water on my patek, mm-hmm I got killers to the left of me, mm-hmm Another million dollar bail, that shit's some regular shit See my granny on the jet, some shit I'll never forget Next day we flew to Vegas with my Puma Connects We break bread, we ain't new to success Believe music and best Enterprise, take lucrative steps Cold game, but I knew it was chess As a youth in the set Learn the game, you a student at best But it's a couple things you can expect Left, just like money, no money Nigga shooters respect Other shooters, we was both Throwing my crew on your neck I'm on the freeway in the drop It got me losing my breath Do the dash with the blues on the deck To learn more, visit songexploder.net. You'll find links to buy or stream Racks in the Middle, and you can watch the music video. There's also the video that I mentioned earlier from Genius, where Nipsey Hussle breaks down the lyrics of Racks in the Middle. This episode was produced by me, Craig Ely, Mary Dolan, and Kathleen Smith, with production assistance from Tiger Biscuit. The episode artwork is by Carlos Lerma, and I made the show's theme music and logo. Special thanks to Alon Zachary for his help with this episode. Song Exploder is a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX, a network of independent, listener-supported, artist-owned podcasts. You can learn more about our shows at radiotopia.fm. If you'd like to hear more from me, I write a newsletter where I write about the making of some of these episodes and about music and film and the creative process. You can find a link to the newsletter on the Song Exploder website. You can also get a Song Exploder shirt at songexploder.net slash shirt. I'm Rishikesh Hiraway. Thanks for listening.
