An MSG Miracle, the Wemby Arrival Game, Tottenham’s Nadir, and 'Euphoria' Season 3 | With Joe House, Chris Ryan, Anthony Dabbundo, and Zoe Simmons

The Bill Simmons podcast brought to you by Fando. We're also brought to you by the Ringer podcast network where I put up a new rewatchable as a Monday night. We did Borat. It was me and Kyle Brandt. I had a great time. We've been doing comedies all month. And it turns out it's kind of politically incorrect comedy month because we did, there's something about Mary. We did Tropic Thunder. We did Borat. And now this Monday, the next one's going to be Animal House, which is also on Netflix. They have a bunch of great comedies. Somehow we've never done Animal House, probably the most influential modern comedy of the last 50 years. That is coming. I'm really excited to do it. This movie's been in my life basically since I was nine years old, 10 years old, whenever I wasn't allowed to watch it. And I did anyway. So Animal House is next. Go check that one out. For this podcast, Joe House and I are going to react to Game One, Knicks, Cavs, as well as Rehash. We've had a day to sit with one of the great basketball games of this century, OKC San Antonio Game One. I have some big picture stuff about it. And then we're going to talk about where that series might be going. So that's up first. Anthony DeBundo and Chris Ryan came on to talk about Tottenham potentially being relegated out of the Premier League if they lose on Sunday, basically. Soccer. I'm going to start doing more of it on this podcast. I had a great time talking to them about that and the World Cup and a whole bunch of things. And then last but not least, my favorite guest. I'm not allowed to pick favorites, but she is my favorite. My daughter, Zoe Simmons, came on because she just turned 21 and we want to talk about a bunch of TV culture and all kinds of things. And we were joined by a very, very special guest who had never been on the podcast before, who has four legs. So if you're watching this as a video podcast, I think you'll enjoy the third person on that segment. Anyway, it's all next. We're going to take a break. Pearl Jam. And then Joe House and I coming off Game One. The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by Fandall. The conference finals finally is here. We are down to four teams. Take a note, go down, take a shot with Fandall, get closer to the action. And as you know, I've been telling you for years, Fandall, the best place to bet the teams, players and plays during the NBA postseason, build the same game, Parley for a shot at a better payout or try live betting and jump into the action after tip off or just follow me and my picks. Cause everyone's in a while, I'll put them on social, download the Fandall Sportsbook app right now and play your game. 21 plus select states are 18 plus DC, Kentucky, Wyoming game, probably call 1 800 Gamble or call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat, Connecticut. All right. Recording this part of the podcast a little after eight o'clock Tuesday night house. This is the best 24 hour run of basketball we've had in a while. We had the incredible Spurs Thunder game last night and then a Knicks game that looked terrible and yet notice even when the Knicks were down 22 with like seven and a half minutes left, I never sent you the text. What's started early at three minutes, which just get going cause this is what the Knicks do. And by the way, this is kind of what the Cavs do too, but an incredible comeback. Uh, Jaylen Brunson on an all time heater down the stretch. James Harden, I think started decomposing at one point and uh, the Knicks did that. It didn't make up for the Halliburton game last year, but it at least made some inroads. Yeah. I mean, the storyline here, are you not entertained? I mean, my God, the first two games of these finals, unbelievable. I had to give you a hard time how in the face of what Wemby did last night, was there no Bill Simmons content immediately thereafter? I never thought to have a live podcast last night. It was a game. It didn't have to be live something. We're going to do it after. We're going to do it after the next night. The Wemby Gasm was last night. I was covered. I mean, I smoked four cigarettes. It was like I couldn't, I hadn't changed the sheets. There was so much. It was outrageous. We had some good ringer podcasts that I have. I'm going to levitate in with some big picture stuff. Let's talk Knicks first. Better win for the Knicks or worst loss for the Cavs. Oh, it's a fun game. I feel like this was actually a worst loss for the Cavs because now they basically, I always say this, now they have to win five times in a seven game series. They shot their wad and all these different ways. I thought I didn't agree with really anything the Knicks did for three quarters. They finally decided to just do five shooters down the stretch with Shamit and Kenny Atkinson. I think had an ice cream head egg or a brain. I don't know what happened to him. He just kind of died on the sidelines. James Harden just getting torched by Jaylen Brunson over and over and over again. He kept the two bigs out there. I don't know where Merrill came in, maybe three minutes left. I don't think we saw Struce at all in the fourth quarter. Yeah, that was the bizarre thing to me. That was a rock and a hard place game because you had to choose which side of the narrative coin you wanted to subscribe to. On the one hand, the Knicks nine days off. So there's going to be Russ, the Russ factor. The three-point shooting was abysmal for three and a half quarters. On the other hand, all of the numbers in the history of the NBA say that a team coming off of a game seven win with a short turnaround time on the road, it's very much in favor of the home team with the rest. And that's definitely the betting angle that you're supposed to. So somehow that got borne out because that's what happened in the Knicks somehow covered. And yet if you watched the game, you felt like the Cavs were in complete control. I was wondering three, complete and complete control. I was wondering three quarters in. I'm like, fuck, what do they do with this big lineup? Are they going to have to start towns in Robinson next game? Are they going to have to match the Biggs with the Biggs? And then they went the other way. They went shooters. And I think Mitchell, I had him down after the third quarter with 24 points. So he had five points in the last 17 minutes of the game and just was not involved. I felt like Hardin had the ball all the time on one end. And then on the other end was just constantly defending Brunson over and over again. And I don't know where Mitchell was either. So that was your worst case scenario if I'm a Cavs fan. I have in the deep recesses of my brain, I'm terrified of James Hardin in big games. I'm terrified of teams honing it on him and making him play defense. And then I'm also worried that there's going to be a little who should take over here, which I thought they had solved, but I guess they didn't know. We had another oops. He did it again. James Hardin, five made field goals, six turnovers, five made field goals, six. How is that possible? How in this era can a guy have this many games where turnovers surpass made field goals? Well, he's old. I mean, he's old. That's one thing I noticed that Nick's were doing with him. And I didn't understand why the previous two playoff teams didn't do this. I don't really think he can go by anyone anymore. And the Knicks were, he does the thing. He does a lot of stunner steps like he's going to get. And then he does the step back. And I thought in the last two rounds, everyone was falling for that. And then this, especially Bridges, who I thought was great tonight. Bridges was like, dude, I'm not falling for that. I don't think you're going by me. And when you go and do that step back, I'm going to be right there in your face. And I just thought Hardin had a lot of trouble getting going. Mobley was really good. And then Mitchell was, I had all these notes that I guess I just have to throw away about Mitchell after three quarters. Because I had this whole thing about, is this Mitchell's moment? All at first team all NBA guys who never made the finals, which is like kind of a shorter list than you think. It's basically like Dame, Nash, Paul George, C-Web, Tracey McGrady, Joel Embiid. Like it's less than 10 people. And it was like, can he get off that list? Can he have like his, maybe this is it. And the Knicks look so dispirited. It just felt like maybe we read this series wrong. I really thought the Knicks were going to kill the Cavs in the series. Well, the version of the Knicks that I thought was the advantage version was the first quarter where all of their points are coming in the paint. And that's true. They dominated points in the paint this entire game. And their ability, especially you made a good observation about Bridges and his defense on Harden. They have an advantage over Detroit. Detroit doesn't have any guards that could put any pressure at all on Cleveland's guards, but immediately the Knicks made Harden and Mitchell uncomfortable. Now I thought Mitchell was pretty awesome across the game, but it's the full Mitchell experience. So the fourth quarter. Guess how many free throws he took? How many? One. He was one for one from the free throw line. And this is the issue, right? He ended up with three assists and four turnovers. But here's the thing, right? When you are in the midst of the run that the Knicks went on and they waited about as long as they could wait, it was, you know, 22 points. It was 22 points with seven and a half minutes left. Like this has happened five times in the history of the playoffs. Right. But the true greats, the true greats, the guys, the first team all NBA guys recognize what is happening and they go into their bag. Right. They settle their own team down, settle down, juice all over the place. And they change the pace of what the other team is trying to do. You've got to get to the free throw line at that point. You have to, you can't keep just chucking up threes. And that's what Cleveland did. That's why Mowgli ended up with 16 attempts, eight three-point attempts from Mowgli. You know, I just think blowing a 22 point lead, I don't care how great the crowd was. We'll talk about the crowd in a second. How much of a heater Brunson was on. 22 points is so many points in seven minutes that it's so many points. I felt like Atkinson was just this passive observer to the whole thing. I remember, I've told this story before, but the Celtics Pacers game seven in 2005. So this is Ricky Davis, Paul Pierce, that team, and it was the post melee Pacers. And I thought that was one of the best coaching jobs I've ever seen by Carlisle that year. And he was like, he was still missing some of his guys, but they took a big lead. And every time the Celtics even had a chance of coming, he was time out, like, or like some sort of thing to stop it. And it was just disjointed from that point on. That next run, it just felt like it was continuous. It was like watching a sports movie. Just felt like Brunson had the ball over and over and over again. They didn't really trap them until like two minutes left. And then the big thing was towns had that terrible foul. Where he has to pretend he can't believe they called it. It's like, you fucking pulled the guy towns. So, OG is inside the free throw line with six feet of space in front of him. And towns is holding Alan. And I think that was cut it to two. And then the cabs went back up six. And it was like, wow, towns just screwed up the game for them. But then bridges made a huge three. And that like near the end of the shot clock too. And then Sham, it made a massive three. And all of a sudden it was tied. Then Hardin made a really nice little James Hardin foul line. Brunson came back and made it. We had to talk about how great some of that shot making Brunson. I mean, we've seen him do that. So you almost take it for granted. But he had five holy shit shots during that run. He had like opposite hand floaters off the glass. He had like high ones that seemed like there was no chance it was going to go in, but it did. He was in threes. And the next thing- We threw it off the set. He did. He threw us off the set. The second and third quarter, he was shit. They scored 23 points. The first quarter, the second quarter, the third quarter, 23, 23 and 23. Well, the thing is, and we're texting at the end of the third quarter about a live bet on the next, because we've seen this next game 15 times this year, right? And we thought they had graduated out of it. Maybe the Hawke series and the Philly series like that. This is now the new Nix. They're using Townsmore. But the reality is they played a bunch of games like this this year where they look like shit for three quarters and then they go on a heater. And I think the crowd was waiting for it. I was waiting for it. But once it got to seven and a half minutes left, down by 22, it's like, okay, I guess maybe they missed the window. And then Brunson was just like, boom. And the crowd knew it. They knew when it got to within 15, they knew it was happening. And I thought that crowd was a 10 out of 10. Kudos to everybody who was there. Though they were dying, they were waiting for any, just the slightest opening. And the fact that it came with seven and a half minutes left, just all they, all they needed the Nix to do was string together a couple of buckets. But I do want to pat myself on the back a tiny bit for your last day. Yes, because at the end of the third quarter going into the fourth, when I texted to our thread, does anyone feel like the Nix can make a fourth quarter run in this shit fest? What did I text you back? I said, yes. I'm staring at 10 and a half like it might grow a pair of boobs. That's that's what I wrote to our group. I'm staring at it. Direct quote from us. And then, you know, to Raheem's credit, Dream says, you know what? On Christmas day, we had a very similar scenario. Me and our boy JJ Jostromsky tried to talk, Dream and JJ tried to say, no, don't do it. Don't mess with it. Yeah. You don't, don't, and then, and then by golly, the Nix came all the way and you reminded everybody this, the Nix, this is what the Nix do. It's incredible. This is what they do. With that said, at the end of regulations, Sam Merrill, semi-wide open takes the three. It was down. Mike Breen gave it a half. He gave it a buff. Did you hear this? I rewound it to make sure I said that. Here's Merrill from three, but no, it's out. He said the buff. He said the double bangs. This is his first buff. He was going to bang it. He was going to bang it. And it really did like it went in and rattled out and just got the ghost MSG kicked it out. But that thing was dead center. You think the Cavaliers can lodge a complaint about Breen doing these games in MSG? The karma of Mike Breen calling a Nix, he is the most impartial. He's brilliant, but I mean the karma buff. Did he do the one last year though? Did he do Halliburton last year? That would be, maybe he didn't because it switches every year. So Brunson ended up, what did he end up with for the game? Did he have 38, 36 after regulation? And so at 40 to 11 run for the Nix at one point. So I don't know, what do we name this game? Is it the Buh game? Is it the God hates Cleveland game? Despite being a God hates Cleveland game? I don't know. It's too much. It's an outcome where if you had shown this to us, this box score, oh, it went to overtime. That's cute. You say, oh, Cleveland, good job. Good job, Cleveland. Good effort. Good try. So much worse than that. Because it can't be a .22. Because they had this whole narrative about getting over the hump. We thought they revealed themselves on Friday night when they completely choked in that Detroit game and they were just awful, right? Then that game seven Mitchell plays one of the best games of his career. They tossed their balls on the table. And yet today they reverted back to who they were. 53s, by the way, 16 for 50. 53s. I don't love from them either. 19 turnovers. I don't like that. I don't like it. They have all the eight threes from Mowgli. I just don't like it. And for three quarters, I thought they were doing everything right. Like even when they started doing the hack of Robinson, I was like, yeah, I kind of like this. Don't let the Nix get back in the game. They have an advantage inside. They definitely have an advantage inside. I mean, there is towns was lost. They can't run him awful. They didn't at the elbow, you know what? The way that the Nix had so much success in the last series. They had Carl Anthony Towns at the elbow. Did you see his turnovers? At the free throw line. Yeah. Seven. Yeah. And they were putting little guys on him. And the announcers, Jefferson and Legler, our guys, they were like, I don't understand why they didn't put towns on the low block and try to punish these guards. It's like, could you, yeah, we, we ask that question every time this happens. They never do it. He doesn't want to go down there. That's just what it is. So they got to unlock him. I thought they were way too Brunson centric for the first three quarters, fourth quarter they had to, because that was the only way they're getting back in the game. But they, they felt very stagnant. Same old, uh, Brunson stuff. And the, the Mitch in Towns, I would consider throwing that lineup out there together a little bit too. Um, for Cleveland, the version of OG also first game back in, in what is it? Two weeks now. And that was another big Cleveland mistake for nine. Guess who I'm leaving wide open in the last five minutes of the game and trapping off this guy. OG. I didn't think his threes were going in. He shot that air ball and overtime. I didn't, well, he didn't want to shoot it. He was like trying to pass them. He stopped taking the threes and he started driving in and to get to, you know, inside the free throw line. He was going for a floater and that, I mean, he was going for a floater on the play that the towns committed the foul. Yeah. Um, the crowd tonight. So this has been, obviously the Knicks have ignited the city, this series, and then the finals that they can get there are going to be among the hardest tickets in New York history. Crowd was locked in today. Nobody left. Um, there was a moment, I think it was after maybe when Shamet, whoever hit the game tie in three, it was either Shamet or Bridges and they wide shot it. Cleveland didn't call time out and the announcers weren't even talking because I don't even think they could hear it. And they did the wide shot and people were just jumping up and down. It was, it was like, it was like a walk off baseball home run or something. Everybody was just so deliriously happy that they came back. It was a really great atmosphere. I kind of wish I had gone. I think it would have been worth the 3000 mile trip to be, to be there for that one. You know, I don't, game one. No, I'm just saying, I wish I'd been in the atmosphere of that. Yes, for sure. I mean, the Knicks fans are about as thirsty as it gets. Pretty soon, you'll be there with AJ DeBansa in towns and Trey Young. Maybe. Kishan George. Maybe. Why not? Why not us? Could happen. Um, all right. So what do we think for the series? I'll give you some odds. Don't look. Look. The, uh, the series odds right now, every time I go to Fandle now, they send me to the prediction thing first, and then I have to go round about around it. Come on, Fandle. Playoffs, futures. Okay. Oh, that seems high. Minus 375 for the Knicks. That sounds right. Just for winning game one, which they were supposed to win. They had the, the, you said at the beginning, calves have to win four out of the next, you know. Well, you got to tell us, is this it for the calves? Is that a death blow? No, I mean, do you think they could win this series? Would you, would you wager on, on the calves plus three 10? I wouldn't wager on the, I didn't wager on the calves at the beginning of the series. Nothing's changed about my opinion on this. I think they're done. I think they had to win this game. The single biggest difference to me is the return of OG who got to the free throw line 10 times, even with all of, you know, the weird stuff he's coming in. Yeah. Yeah. But that, that looks explosive too. Yeah. It's just a deep team. It's just, it, they have weapons in a lot of different ways. They can defend, you know, with, with the best of them. And the fact that they were asleep for two quarters after not playing competitive basketball against a team that just came off a game seven win, you know, it doesn't change my opinion overall of what this next team is all about and where I think they're headed. Rusty and lethargic. I have more concerns about towns than I did three days ago, but I feel like they can, some of the stuff that calves were doing as I'm, I wonder, in the next series, especially if they play the WEMB UFO, I think, I think, uh, I think some of, some of the tricks will be emulated. Okay. We've talked about the next series enough. That was a great game. Not as great as the game last night. We're going to take a break. Not as great as, that's right. We take a break and then we're going to talk about one of the great games of the 21st century, Thunder Spurs Game One. The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by Fandall. We are halfway through the NBA playoffs and they're getting better and better. Every possession matters. Every bucket swings the game tonight is your shot to boost your bet because all customers get a profit boost tonight on Fandall. So when the moment hits, you win bigger. Fandall giving better payouts on same game parlays, all NBA playoffs long. I'm going to figure out something for San Antonio, O.K.C. Game two, a series that I am obsessed with. I have a lot of thoughts on matchups, who might play. I think I can put together a good SGP for this, but lock in your bets, boost your odds, make the playoffs pay off with Fandall official sport betting partner of the NBA. Head to Fandall.com slash BS to get started. Fandall, play your game. 21 plus select states are 18 plus DC, Kentucky, Wyoming, restrictions, PlyoC terms at sportsbook.fandall.com. Game problem, call 1-800-Gamber or call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat, Connecticut. This episode is brought to you by Mikalov Ultra. You know what my favorite thing about the playoffs is? I like during, and it's usually maybe a game four, might even be a game five, game seven, everyone's nervous. There's a different level of energy, but game four, game five, for one of the two teams, there's this realization with like five minutes left in the fourth quarter. What's like, uh-oh. Our fate is suddenly in real flux right now. Who's stepping up? What are we going to do? What's calmed down? Can we rise to the moment or are we going to shrink from it? It's as great as opening up a Mikalov Ultra, a nice cold one, crisp, refreshing, the ultimate prize. Plus, as the official beer partner of the NBA, they're giving fans a chance to win courtside tickets, custom merch, and more. You could be at one of those games when the pressure rises. Mikalov Ultra Superior is worth playing for, enter now at mikalovultra.com slash courtside. Mikalov Ultra courtside 2526, no purchase necessary, open to U.S. residents 21 plus, begins on October 1st, 2025, ends on June 30th, 2026. Multiple intra periods, see official rules at mikalovultra.com courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, and prizes and details. All right, house, the arrival. The UFO has landed. Wemby has emerged from the UFO. He's seven foot seven and he's here to dominate the league. I had a Tiger at 97 Augusta kind of feeling watching the game last night. Like, that something was changing for real. The sport was being appended in a real way. And I know that's going to sound stupid if they end up losing the series, but I don't even think that the winner or lose the series doesn't matter. He was doing something last night that I just felt like something, the sport had shifted. And then I'm not the only person to say that, but it did bring me back to Augusta. And all of a sudden Augusta, it just felt small for Tiger. Remember, we were like, fuck, this was like the hardest, weirdest course we have. And he's like just annihilating it. What's happening? Everything Wemby was doing last night. He took out SGA. SGA was a mess. He completely took out Chet to the point that it was almost debatable whether he should be out there. He took out Heart and Staten. They had to take out two minutes into the game. He changed 50 shots, 41 points, 24 rebounds to blocks. He had a 32 footer to tie the game. He had a game tying shot and data regulation. And did this all on the road. Did this with the fuck you energy from the MVP? Not getting that shout out to Hakim and 95 against Robinson. It was hard not to think about that moment. I sent you the YouTube clip last night and just backed it up in all these different ways. And I think for me, it's that he walks the walk and then backs it up and does shit that we've just never seen. And talking about arrival games, MJ's 63 point game. Kobe in the 2000 finals after Shaq fouled out in game four. LeBron in 2007, the 48 special against Detroit. Curry had that unbelievable 2013 game one against the Spurs, which everybody forgets now because there's been so many great games. But he goes into the next round against the Spurs. I think he has, I don't know, like 10 threes or 40 plus points and just was going against this great Spurs team by himself. Felt like on that level, like it was a before and after with this game. You agreed that? Of course. And the numbers back it up. I mean, you have to go all the way back to 1970 to find a performance where a player 22 years old or younger has a combination of 40, 20. That's Korean. There's only two players in the history of the game at that age to have a 40, 20. That's Kareem and now Wemby. Yeah. And you have to use as your reference point, all of the great playoff performances, the highest leverage performances to create the context. And if we didn't have that Pacers come back last year against the Knicks that just incredible out of the Halberd game. You could say like, you know, so I was in my text thread, greatest game one in a conference finals ever. I have the list. I made a list. In the conversation. Here's what I wrote down. You tell me if it beat these games. I went to this game. So I'm a little biased. 2018 game one finals, the JR Smith game. I think that was the last great game. That game was eight years ago because LeBron is going against this, you know, juggernaut all time goal and state team. And he's basically taking it to him by the by himself and physically dominated them. I think he had 50 or 51, whatever he did, but Cleveland lost. Cleveland lost an OT. That's the problem. I'm just talking about as a game. That game is fucking awesome. That game was off the charts. Awesome. And it was the rain and curry at their peak and the Warriors still really good. That game was awesome. The Halberd miracle last year. That was a game one. And then the Iverson 2001 finals against the Lakers. I think those are the most important four for this century for different reasons, right? Iverson. Yeah. Iverson really needed that one in the legacy in the big picture. It's the only time made the finals. He took that was the best Laker team. And I think that was probably the second best team of this century. And he just went toe to toe with Shaq and Kobe and beat them. Did the step over Shaq had a 40, 20 that game. We were reminded, you know, inside of the NBA this evening. So I would go those four and then the runner ups, the 2008 finals Celtics Lakers game one, the Paul Pierce wheelchair game. So even that became the and it was also a really good game. But just that the Celtics and Lakers were in the finals again in the hype leading up to that, I think is there Dallas, San Antonio, 03. Dirk had a 38, 15 Duncan had a 40, 15. And this was like, we thought this was going to be the start of a dirt first Duncan run. And it ended up for a variety of reasons, not getting wet. But that game was awesome. I don't want to sleep on that 97 finals, Chicago, Utah, Malone wins the MVP. And then Jordan hits the game winner and does the, yes, that's got to be on there. 95 finals Orlando Houston, Nick Anderson, the free throws, the four free throws. I wouldn't say that was a great game. But if you're talking drama and memory, it was one of the most memorable games of every single career. I remember watching it. I know where I was. Yeah, I could put myself right back there right now. Same year, Indie, New York, round two was the Reggie eight points and nine seconds. Okay. 92 finals, Chicago, Portland, MJ hits the six threes, 35 in the first half does the shrug. That was a game one. Yeah. Wow. And then the 91 finals, which is another one that's like an awesome game, but it's 35 years ago. Bulls, Lakers, Magic versus MJ for the first time. Magic hits Perkins for a three to go ahead. MJ has a jumper to tie it and it does the Mike Green, Bob rattles around, but doesn't go in and they lose. And I think in the last 40 years, those are the ones, and I could go 70s and 80s for the last, but those tell everybody, go on YouTube and watch some of these games. Please go watch those. But I really think this century, those four, 26, 18, gold state Cleveland, the Halliburne game and the Iverson game. I think those were the best four. Usually game ones aren't great. We've had some fun, weird ones. Like remember that year of Phoenix beat San Antonio and like 03, 02 somewhere in there with Marbury. Marbury hit like a half court shot. Yeah, that was crazy. And it was like the one great Marbury Phoenix moment. Maybe it's 2001. I don't remember 2003, whatever it was. We've had some good ones that Celtics Bulls 2009, Roses Rookie year was good, but those are the best ones. Usually the series, there's like a feeling out and this one didn't. And there was one of the things I wrote down was like, how's like the speed of that game compared to what normal basketball is, like you watch a game like tonight and it's just feels like it's on a podcast that's 1.0 versus last night the game was at a 1.5. Well, part of it that is because these teams are familiar with each other, this iteration of these teams and what the Spurs did that's so remarkable over the course of the regular season, they used each of these matchups with Oklahoma City as referendum games for them. Like this is why that organization is heads and shoulders above all others, you know, in the league. It's why the Spurs have occupied rarefied air for 35 years, 30 years, let's say. Well, they've also had some, some fucking luck. No doubt. No doubt. They won a Wemby lottery and the Dunkin' Lottery and the Dunkin' Lottery. Three teams pass on Dillon Hart on a Stephon Castle, including your stupid team. And then Dylan Harper at two. All that is true. And yet they are, they've routinely maximized that good fortune. They really have. You're correct. And they jumped through the opportunity door. And it's apparent that this season coming into it, they're like, every time that we play Oklahoma City, we are going to get in that ass. We were going to, it's an experiment. We're going to be physical. We're going to run SGA off the ball. I mean, part of the thing you gave Wemby credit for some impact on SGA. The answer to that to me is yes, but it was a masterful game. It was everybody. It's the physicality of those guards. They doubled him. They run him off the ball. And what that creates is open shots for Alex Caruso. That's fine. Cause Caruso knocked a whole bunch of them down in Oklahoma City could have won. But I think the Spurs are like, if we lose to Alex Caruso, that's okay. We are willing to live with that. That's by the way, what the cap should have done today with the Ananobe. Yeah, they, sure. I mean, the thing last night, Wemby's point guard, because DNR Fox doesn't play, Castle mostly plays point guard. He's 11 turnovers. He played hard. He did a lot of good things, but he 11 turnovers. He was trying. And the other ball hander, Dylan Harper, who had an awesome game and I want to talk about him in a little bit, but he's 20 years old. And they're in O.K.C. And at one point, there's a couple of points where O.K.C. is like, here are our best defensive guys. We're just putting them all out there. Good luck. And it felt like they couldn't start their offense with it 40 feet from the basket. It felt like they couldn't even figure out how to get Wemby the ball, even though it was seven foot seven, 25 feet from the basket. And Wemby still pulled off the game with some help from, from his guys. There was a couple of big threes like Champagne hit a huge three in the corner. I thought Fassell had a couple of really big plays. He did. Fassell never lost his confidence, even with all the turnovers, which I really appreciated. And I thought the defense, the fact that I wrote down on my notes, they basically, they basically forced O.K.C. into this lineup, that I'm not sure they're going to not be able to do the rest of the time where they basically had three guards with J.Dubb, with Chet, because they have to figure out a way to pull Wemby away from the basket. So they're just going to, like, heart and scene, I don't think can play in this series. I don't, I'm not positive. Dort can really play big minutes and crunch time in this series either, because whoever they have, who's not a threat, Wemby's just going to guard that guy and help off them. So it's going to be a chess match, but I feel like the chess has already been played to some degree. We'll see. The questions for me is, in the next game, are they going to just say Fox and Harper shoot threes until your heart, we're going to double team Wemby, we're going to trap them, we're going to make him give up the ball. And if you guys hit threes, God bless. I would assume that's the move for them. O.K.C. I think already made their moves by the second half of that game. I don't know. There are some things that feels like O.K.C. can do to free up SGA. Like, you know, we're going to see some innovation yet. Like, what though? Well, I mean, there'll be some unique screening kind of situations. You know, we're going to see a version of SGA, I imagine, that's akin to the way that Steph gets free. They run him off of, you know, pinned. He's running the entire, the entirety of possession. No, but that's not totally his game though. I was wondering, are they going to stagger him for when Wemby's out of the game, you bring him, you try to have SGA in the 10 non-Wemby minutes and stuff like that to just try to. That also sounds like a fine way of doing it, but what they have to get comfortable with and what SGA has to get comfortable with is he's got to be a mid-range shooter now because you just can't go to the rim. You can't get to the rim. And then you can see Oklahoma City palpably, dramatically impacted. It's not just the blocks and the altar shots. It's that the lane is no longer available. So you have to become comfortable in the mid-range. And that is a version of basketball that you and I watched. We grew up with it, but that's not how they play modern basketball. Yeah, there were some good stats. Deely43, David Leigh, that's his Twitter account though, was talking about how SGA drives basically 19 times a game during the season and passes 38% of the time. But last night, 30 drives and he passed 54% of the time. So it's not a huge thing, but it felt that way watching it. He was trying to get to spots and there was always Wemby. I had this reader, listener sent this great email about how we should nickname, change Wemby's nickname to Jaws. Because when the people decide to go in the paint, it's like when the swimmers go in the water and it's like, nah, nah, nah, nah, they're tripling and just, and Wemby's just kind of looming around with the shark costume. But it does feel like he's changed, I don't know how SGA snaps out of it, but SGA just didn't seem as comfortable. He actually seemed the most comfortable just doing step back threes, right? So that could work. That could work. I mean, he is the MVP of the league. We are going to see some wrinkles out of this Oklahoma City. This is part of why this series feels so rich. It's because the strategy element of this, I expect to see something new every game. We're not going to see the same game twice. I don't feel like in this series. Well, you know what else we might see in this game, this game too, is, hey, can we start roughing up Wemby here? There was a clip that went around this morning about Chet stepping on his foot during a free throw. Did you see that? No, I didn't see it. They were next to each other boxing out and right when the ball went up, Chet just stepped on his foot to try to trip him. And I wonder if they're going to start doing a whole bunch of stuff like that and trying to get in a set. One thing with San Antonio, they don't really have an enforcer. Well, this is like, if you're going to play Hartenstein, he has six fouls. That's the point of Hartenstein being on the floor is the six fouls that he brings to the table. I know, but it just unleashes Wemby on the other end. He could just do whatever he wants. But you're right. Maybe use them to beat him up. I think ultimately, Chet's going to have to figure out a way to defend him because the problem with putting the guards on him, which sort of worked and got Karuso going, but then you give up all these offensive rebounds. Like he had nine offensive rebounds last night. So you're making it harder for him to get the ball, but then on possessions, you're giving them like an extra six, seven, eight possessions a game. And I don't think that's worth it. Big picture on Wemby. We weren't there for Wilt. We were there for, we're old enough to remember 70s Kareem with the goggles. And then obviously 80s Kareem when he wasn't really the same. But it does feel like what that must have been like when you just went to a game and Wilt was just destroying everybody. Sure. We've had, you know, we've had some great centers over the years that we've certainly loved talking about and loved watching. But when somebody can do it on both ends like that and just completely destroy the psyche of a crowd. And, you know, we didn't talk about the 32 foot shot yet, which was one of the great moments of the century for basketball for me, like an all time, holy shit, from the exact Steph Curry spot. Did you think it was going in? Cause I actually did. I don't know why. It happened so fast. It was both an ooh, and I was actually, I had my kid with me and I, cause I grabbed him. I'm like, you got to watch this. You, you're not permitted. This is, this is the history and you want, you're going to be pointing to this, you know, as you grow up as, as, you know, something significant. And we both, I had it. Ooh, I was like, when he pulled up, I go, and then I was like, oh, you know, what are those? What are those? Like unbelievable. I was looking for it because he, he kind of likes that shot. The problem was he was so far away, but I saw him trailing and I was like, kind of just watching it. But then when he pulled up, I thought he was going to stop and realize he was too far. And he just, just fired it. Somebody took the clip of Steph doing it with Breen's double bang and synced up the timing with Wemby. So they're on top of each other and it's, it's really, whoever did it, extraordinary job. It's basically the same spot, right? It is. It is. You can see, that's what makes it so impressive. Is it like Steph and Wemby are in the same spot on the floor? I went back and I read the piece that I wrote after LeBron's 48 special against Detroit. And, you know, it was like this real last potential thing for all of us. And I thought, actually, I actually kind of liked what I wrote. I was like, all right, I kind of captured that one a little bit. But it was basically like, here's this guy with all these tools and we're hoping it's inside him and we're watching game after game, week after week, kind of hoping something like this will happen. And then it started happening. Now he's doing that against an 0-7 Pistons team that was getting a little long in the tooth. The league's pretty weak that year. There's only like five teams that, you know, the Cavs made the finals that year with one of the worst finals teams we've had. But it was a moment and it was like a really good sign when it happened, like, oh, this guy, he really might have it. Like this might be like a real Jordan challenger. This is the first real sign we have that there's some real specialness here. I already felt that way with Wemby. And even we were texting before the game, the MVP thing, it was like notable because of the history of what's happened in basketball with this with Jordan Malone in 97 and with Hakim and Robinson. It was like, this is interesting. He's not going to like that they gave SGA the MVP. And I think that's my favorite thing about him, about anything is I think he's a real fucking dick. Like he's a competitive motherfucker. Did you see that video of him watching the ceremony? He was like pissed off. Yes. Yes. I mean, and all of those historical parallels that we just eat up, we just can't get enough. Yeah, this is what we love. And we get the benefit. I mean, there was a half dozen different ways for the Spurs to lose that basketball. It sure was. What did you think? Including the 32 foot three. And that was the first overtime. They were down three at that point. It wasn't even regulation. It was an overtime. I thought they were going to lose. I thought they were going to lose because of the minutes. Yeah. Because we haven't seen it out of him and the impact of no Fox, what that meant, you know, that the extra minutes on Harper, the extra minutes on Castle and the, the, the turnovers. I mean, I, what did Harper and Castle combine for turnover wise? They were discombobulated. I kept thinking back to that Denver, that Saturday Denver San Antonio game that was awesome, that went in overtime. Yoke, just last great game. The game that earned Yoke, it's number two on my VP ballot. I thought when he got tired in the, in the overtime of that game, and you could see it. So when I was watching the game last night, I kept thinking he was going to wear down. And he just didn't take, like, whether it was the adrenaline of what was going on or the fact that they hadn't played for a couple of days, but I'd never thought he looked that tired. The Spurs guys after the game said he had no legs. We couldn't believe he took that. I never felt like he was worn out because I think when he gets worn out, he starts falling down and you can kind of see it. I didn't feel that way last night. I felt like he, he showed some, some fatigue, but I think the Oklahoma city couldn't be, can't be, we'll see how it goes as physical as Minnesota was. So like, I, you know, I think it was a little bit of a breather for him against Oklahoma city because he just didn't have to take on any of that physicality. I mean, the size of Minnesota was, was legit. And it was the only way for them to really compete was to lean on him, to push him, to be in his space. And they could rotate, go bare and Randall in that role. Oklahoma city doesn't have that. No. I, the other thing with Wemby, I, I don't say this lately. I really feel like he checks all the competitive boxes. Even when I've seen him in person, I don't feel like he's mailing it in, doesn't give a shit. Like I feel like he really cares and he's really competitive all the time though. Honestly, the way Jordan was, that was one of the things we loved about Jordan. Jordan always cared. He always put, put the proper level of competitiveness and respect on the game and really like just wanted to cut everybody's throat out. And it, it does feel like Wemby's wired like that a little bit. And at first center, that's a really rare trait. That's the accelerant. This is why we're in this position where we're having to revisit our priors on how quickly Kenneth Young team come together and really properly threaten the history of the NBA is littered with upstart teams, upstart young teams who have the talent, but don't have the basketball IQ, the wherewithal, the, the, you know, the reps under these high leverage moments. And I wonder if it's the 77 blazers is the only team that did it. That's a really weird, I wonder if they were accumulating those reps over the regular season. This is what I mean. Did Wemby, did the, was the Olympics his version of those reps? I got that email a few times from people because it's not like, oh, he's never tasted his own blood. It's like, he actually did it in the 24 Olympics. Right. That was the first time he took some haymakers. Yeah. Yeah. Steph gave it to him. He, and he got to understand what it was like. This is why I was wondering aloud about this idea of each of those games against Oklahoma city in the regular season as referendum, like really mattering, measuring stick games. And they kicked ass all season long. They did not take nights off to your observation, your point. That's right. They didn't, that competitiveness. And it wasn't just Wemby. It was that whole Spurs team because Wemby missed a whole bunch of games. And they still, you know, won the number that they won. And it was like 25 games over whatever their, their wind total 20 games over the, what their forecast to wind total was supposed to be like. I said something I thought, I genuinely thought they're going to win the series. And I think Wemby, I just think we're going to be coming to grips with what's happening here over the course of the next four weeks. I was on one text ride where they were like, said, like, oh, there's those have been, is the face of the league and doing all that stuff. And it's like, I don't know what face of the league means. I just know that this is the biggest appointment TV viewing that the league has had since Curry and the Warriors in the middle 2010s. And this doesn't happen very often. We weren't sure if it was going to happen again with anybody we had. And we always try to put the guys that we have in position, you know, you and I love watching Joker. Not everyone loves watching them. Wemby appeals to every single person because of how tall he is and how skill he is and how unusual he is and how much he gives a shit. And I think this will end up being probably the most watched series non finals that the league has had at least in 10 years. You know, and it's definitely passes the mom test. I'm sure I'm sure whoever whoever whoever's mom or dad that doesn't follow sports probably brought up the Wemby game to you today, right? That not or to whoever's listening. It's just the way it is. And people who missed it, they won't miss tomorrow night. They won't miss, you know, the Wednesday night game because it is absolutely appointment TV. We have the reigning MVP of the league in SGA. That's a controversial figure. You know, the worm has turned a little bit a lot of 50 50 on foul merchant out of out of out of SGA. They won't call him yesterday. The reps were great yesterday. I like that on both sides. You and me both. I thought it was fine. I thought it was a very fair game. But, you know, and you you put that alongside a player that none of us have seen. You had, you know, Jamal Crawford last night say, we've never seen a guy like this before. We can't really process it. I mean, I have my quibbles with Reggie Miller. Oh, really? Oh, God. I'll just leave it alone. There's no reason. He's a nice guy. Dylan Harper. Okay. Let's do it. I watched the game yesterday with my daughter who's coming up later on the podcast, actually, who was half paying attention all the time. And at one point she turned to me and said, wow, you really love Dylan Harper. Is he like your favorite non Celtic? And I said, I think he might be. I think like after Yoko Chikuri, I just love Dylan Harper. I love how he plays. I sound like Collins Worth. I just love that kid. I just love that kid so much. I was just in awe of what he was doing yesterday where they're like, Hey, Fox is in playing. We know you're 20. And we know we're going against the team that has the best collection of defensive guards, probably the last 15 years. Do you think you could give us 40 plus minutes tonight and do a whole bunch of shit and maybe go ISO every once in a while and go grab some rebounds? Oh, and jump in the passing lanes and get what do you have? Seven steals and get big rebounds in traffic. Oh, and don't get tired, even though you should be like a sophomore in college. I thought what he did was out of control. And if anything, I was texting people during crunch time in the OTs, like, you know, as the castle thing was really going sideways. Like, why don't they run stuff for Harper? Why don't they run high pick and roll for him with a shooter? Like I want to see, I think, okay, see we'd have trouble defending that. They had to go all across half court in the first place. I know, maybe that was part of the problem. And he ended up being the guy a bunch of times. Yeah, I think they really need him in this series. But what he did yesterday, I thought, I was just, I was so impressed. And I'll say this house, you know, I don't say stuff like this lately because you've known me for almost 40 years. To me, like we saw Kate in college. And, you know, the first five years, you and I were, I didn't even have a internet calm when he got traded the first time. And you and I were so apoplectic that they traded him Dallas. We were like, how do you trade Jason Kader? You got like, that's insane. How do you ever in a million years do that? I think of him, I think of Chris Paul in the mid-2000s. Like we're talking about like top 50 guys ever and some of the best young guards we've seen in our lifetime. And I think he's going to be as good as those guys. I really do. I think he's going to be like a hall of fame, multiple first team on VA type of guard. Well, the cool thing is if you had Harper stock when they drafted him, an important element of what's going to propel that stock into a return on investment, you know, double digit strata is how free he can play basketball with playing alongside Victor Wembanyan. It's the perfect guy to play with him. He's absolutely perfect. That's exact. He only shot one for seven from three last time. He got to the free throw line. I mean, he's the multi-faceted 11 rebounds. Like how is he getting double digit rebounds? Well, that's what the team needed out of him. And, you know, he was able to drop down and grab. And the poise going to the hole. This is what physicality. There you go. That's it. That's right. Exactly. He took every bump. He took every bit of, and this is why the Spurs are so live in the series. It's because I think they can out physical Oklahoma city. Right? They took the blow that Minnesota represented. Minnesota was a wake up call. Game one of that series was a wake up call for these Spurs. Welcome to the playoffs, gentlemen. Now we've officially started. Yes. Right. And to their great credit, they recalibrated. They're like, oh, okay. Well, here's what we have. Here's what we can do. And they could handle that physicality. I think Minnesota did them a great service in preparing them for this series. And they showed up ready to get in that ass. And they did. They were in it all game long. They were physical with SGA. Now the one thing you said a couple of minutes ago, will we have that whistle? What's that whistle going to be throughout the balance of this series? And in fact, for both sides, you just ask you right now, what's that whistle going to be tomorrow night? Wednesday night? I think tomorrow's going to be... The line is the exact same. It's the exact same line, which suggests that, what, is Fox playing or not playing? It'll be a game time decision? I would assume he's playing. He should play. And I would assume... It would be better. I really think this series is going to get small. And it's going to be the three guards against the three guards on OKC, whoever they are, J-Dubb and Vasell and Chet and Wemby. And that's just what we're going to do. And it's going to be... OK. And OKC will probably look at that game one and say, we should have won. The Champagne three, really hard shot. Shouldn't have gone in. Jalen Williams and double OT. That terrible shot he took with like 35 seconds left. That kind of rush shot. It wasn't necessary. OKC had like bad shots. I'm sure they looked at the tape and were like, we should have won that game. No, it's stupid. The difference is Fox is going to come back. And Harper got a taste of it. Harper now knows the speed. He understands like a three hour game like that, that there's levels to it. You got to save stuff. I look at Harper and I'm like, this is the worst he's ever going to be right now. Over the next 10 years, this is the worst version of him. And he's already awesome. And then Castle is 21. That's the other crazy thing. You almost look like Castle is like a 27 year old. He's 21 and botting through everybody. And he's one of the most physical guys in the series. I still think San Antonio is going to win. I thought that before the series. I think that after game one, I don't know how many games that's going to be. But I just think I hope it's seven. I want seven of these. This is an incredible matchup. So the guys to watch in game two, number one is Chet. I think this is the biggest game in his career so far. He's going to have a long career and there'll be a lot more good ones. But I thought he just got his ass kicked in game one and he's got to figure out. He can't only have seven attempts. I need to feel you in this game. I did not really feel you in that first game. I felt Caruso. And then the other thing, which I mentioned before the series and maybe it'll shake itself out with Heart and Steen not playing as much, but they played 11 guys in the first half. And that was a big thing I was worried about with the O.K.C. is like, do they know who their best guys are? Do they know what their best lineups are? I still don't think they totally know. I think they have like eight guys they trust. But I'm not sure he knows what to be wearing. The Jalen Williams thing is a big thing to introduce out of nowhere in the third round. For any, he took 25 shots. Welcome back, Jalen. Right, they were open. Get your 25 piece. I mean, he took two more shots in SGA. I'm going to read you a list of the best 21st century games. And you tell me, was the game we saw last night a go game by game? You tell me if it was better or worse. All right. We just did the game ones. No, I'm going to the best games. We said, it was an incredible go-go. Go ahead. Fine. Just trust me. Okay. Was it better than the Halliburton game last year? I liked it better. Does that help? That's the right answer. I liked it better. Was it better than the... You know why I liked it better? Because the Spurs were seven point underdogs, missing the air and Fox. And they had every excuse in the book to not, you know, to just come into that environment on MVP night, right? And just show a great effort and then let Oklahoma City do what they do, which is, you know, win by 10 or 12. I have it over that game. Do you have it over game four 2022 finals? Curry, basically his legacy game that led to his fourth title? No. Much more at stake in that game. Much more at stake. The leverage is so different. So that's a... I'm going to make that a TBD because if San Antonio wins this series, I think that was a big problem. I'm going to tell you right now, I'm going to have a hard time putting that game last night, a game one in a conference finals with a brand new team with the identity of the Spurs over any finals game, any legacy games. I think that's the right answer. I'm going to just have a hard time with that. Milwaukee, Brooklyn, game seven, Durant, foot in the line. Damn. Pretty great game. Yeah, that was an awesome game. I think last thing was better because I think the quality was better because that game had... Durant was great, but James harded on one leg. There was no Kyrie. Yep. No, the last night was better. Philly, Toronto, game seven, Kawhi shot that bounce way up in the air and went in. I got to give it to that Philly Kawhi. I think that one was better. I think that one was better. Yeah, that one. That game was unbelievable. It was. The JR Smith game, LeBron 51. It'd be cried after that game. We didn't have any cheers last night. No. Game one finals, I think... That's a really tough one. That was like LeBron's last stand in Cleveland, basically. That 2018? Yeah, that game won LeBron by himself against the Warriors for two and a half hours. Last thing was better. That game felt more... Yeah. 2016 game seven finals, that beats this. Come on, man. The Clay Thompson. You just had to mention it? The Clay Thompson game. Which was game six against Houston? No, game six, Golden State at Oklahoma City. Golden State down three-one. They went game five. I said Houston. I knew it was hard. Yeah. Yeah. I knew what I was talking about. It was Durant Westbrook, not Hardin. We're old. We're allowed mistakes. Clay Thompson gets on the heater right as the Golden State 73 win season is about to go down the tubes. It's a pretty great game. Damn. I'm going to give it to Clay. I think that's the right answer. San Antonio Quipers game seven, round one. I think this was better. Even though that was a fucking awesome game that I went to, by the way. 2013 game six final, San Antonio Miami, the Real game. There's no way that game was not better than last night. Yeah. Okay. All right. You're just trying to set a context here. I appreciate it. Last one from the last 15 years. We'll have two more from the last 15 years. The Bulls beating Miami to end the 27 game win streak was my favorite game that nobody talks about anymore. That game was fucking awesome. I love the win streak. It was a regular season game. I love the win streak. I wrote like a 7,000 word column about the win streak. That was a great column. The win streak was awesome. That'll never happen again. Nobody's ever winning 27 straight games ever again in the regular season. I wouldn't say that. That would be the first decision they want to try that. Mode management and shit is never happening again. The Spurs might want to try and do that next season. And then the last one I had was 2011 game five, Dallas, Miami, which I went to. Jason Terry had the big three to end it, but that was like the not one, not two, not three, Miami Heat just taking it on the chin in game four and game five and the crowd was delirious. I still think last night was probably slightly better, but anyway, those are the ones I had from the last 15 years. So we kind of had it slated somewhere in the middle there. The thing is, if San Antonio wins the title and this was the best game of the entire run, I think that gains in significance, right? Okay. Okay. I'll accept that. No pushback for me on that. What was the best Tiger? Holy shit. He's in our lives forever, Masters. Was that 2000? Wow. Well, because yeah, 2000. 2000 was though. We're in trouble for a decade now. We're not at that point with Wumbie yet. We're in the 97 Masters area of Wumbie. Because it's an arrival moment. It's an arrival. Right? This was the highest stakes. Unless you want to use the Olympics as the highest stakes, the gold medal game, France against the US, what? Yeah, it was July 24. Yeah. That was a pretty important game for Wumbie, but he's bigger now. He's stronger. Well, the greatest players ever all have a knack of coming through at a pretty precociously early age. Even Magic won the title when he was age 20, right? Yeah. Bird won a title in his second year. Kareem won in his second year. Russell won in his first year. He won in his second year. It took LeBron a few years, but that had more to do with the crappy guys on his Cleveland team. Same thing for Jordan. But for the most part, they start telling us who they are pretty early in their career. And I think he told us last night would be my big takeaway. But the Dillon Harper thing, long term, the fact that they have those two guys together with Castle as a third. Can you believe we live in a world where they're set up as better than OKCs already? Like that would have seemed impossible a year ago. Impossible. I'm not sure it's better. What happens if OKC wins this series? What do you mean it's not better? Wumbie would have to get hurt for it not to be better. What if OKC wins this series four games to one because they go on a heater? I'll take Wumbie Harper and Castle. You take SGA and any other two OKC guys. Which three would you rather have? Well, when OKC has Yanis next year because of all of the picks that they have and all of the... I mean, which OKC are we talking about? That's the other question from this series. What if they, if San Antonio fumps it to them? Is there some sort of move now? Do they look at this to go? I would. Five games to one. That's a feature, not a bug. They played six times these two teams regular season and now one playoff. And it's five games to one. The evidence continues to melt. I'll just put it that way. I mean, I know a bunch of different times when they played, not all of the both teams weren't their full, complete versions of themselves, so on and so forth. But San Antonio is hell bent on sending a message. They are hell bent on sending a message to Oklahoma City. They have it circled in red on their calendar. And we're just going to see. We're going to see how this plays out. Do you see yourself turning on Wemby at any point? Over the course of the year, over the course of the playoffs, I loved the comeuppance. I felt like it was a comeuppance when the Joker and Denver beat them on that incredible Saturday night game. It was like, this is a measuring stick game. And look how close you are. And yet you're you're there's just one other level. That level unfortunately included Aaron Effing Gordon not being hurt. God damn it. I'm going to be bitter about, you know, the existential crisis that Denver is in now. Because, and I mean, I'm not, I'm not, you know, denigrating Gordon. He just couldn't get healthy in the playoffs for two consecutive years now. And we're losing out on this Joker moment. And that Denver team was supposed to be better. Because none of us like Kareem. We can be honest about that. I've never, you know, it's not in my DNA. We respected him. We just to hate on him. No, we respected him, but nobody was like, I'm a huge Kareem fan. I love Kareem. Kareem's my guy. I think there are Lakers people that would say that they love Kareem. Because he was on their team. Yes, that's right. You talked to yourself in a like in Gilbert Arenas for four years. Gilbert Arenas was fucking awesome for one season. He sure was. No, I think usually with the tall, giant guys, eventually they become the villains. You know, and this has happened to pretty much every tall guy has ever played basketball. I don't know if it happens with him because he's so, he's so different and he's so much fun to watch and he's so competitive. I think if somebody cares as much as he cares on top of the talent, it's really hard to root against that. I know. I think there's an undercurrent out there. Asked Jacobi. I know there's an undercurrent. I already know. Well, there's a xenophobia thing that's happening too. Where people are like, oh, what's happening? We're losing our sport to the internationals. No, I mean, that part I don't care about. I do like, the tough guy stuff. Let's, you know, this is why I enjoyed what Minnesota did to him in game one. Yeah. Well, and what Lou Dorts going to be doing to him in game two? Through the entire series. I mean, they baited him into the elbow to the throat that could have been a suspension. I'm glad it wasn't a suspension, but they got them. They won two games by being physical with him, knocking him out of his games. And that's what okay, Lou Dorts going to do the Bret Hart when Bret Hart put the metal vest under his hockey jersey when he was against Bill Goldberg. Bill Goldberg's spear them, but Bret Hart had a metal vest on. I think Lou Dorts going to wear that tomorrow. It's going to be ramming. That's what the fouls are for. That's what the fouls are for. I can't wait. I think tomorrow, I think this whole series is like, you can't miss a minute. There's no excuse. Tell your wife, tell your girlfriend, tell your spouse, your boyfriend, whoever doesn't want to watch basketball, dude, they can fuck off for three hours. Because this is a must watch every minute. We don't know when we're getting another series like this. It hasn't happened for eight years. Don't sleep on how impressive these two coaching staffs are and can be and the innovation we're going to see. It's the diametric opposite of what we watch with Cleveland. It's like Kenny Atkinson, but after a cup of coffee. Like I just can't, like I still can't unsee that Detroit. I'm so glad it's over. I'm sorry I lived through it. This is the diametric opposite. These are two staffs. They're so goddamn innovative. Every game is going to look different. Jamal Moseley back in action with New Orleans. Congratulations. Jason Kidfire today. Saw that. That was one of the more, I wish I forgot to predict that on a podcast because the combo of Masai taking over. Well, yeah, that was Masai wants his guy, which is understandable. But then Jason Kid, who during like at least the last year, Luca was there, was complaining about him to everybody and there's no way he didn't know about that trade. And there's no way he wasn't trying to jet at mind trick people into trading him. And he definitely knew about it before it happened. And then the trade happened. He's like, I didn't know anything about it. I didn't know what happened. They were definitely going to they're going to Joe Pesci him at some point. Our out is like he was hoping for a front office kind of thing. Like maybe there was some way to get the next job last summer. Seamless. He pushed in the, you know, he definitely wink winked at trade. And then four months later, it's like, yeah, I'd love to check out this next thing. That was definitely one of the possibilities out there. Well, maybe the Portland guy will hire him at a discount because he's already getting paid by somebody else. That guy fired 70 people today. I saw that. Like what the fuck is going on? Like what is this league? The three most recent owners now you can, you can, you know, take Ispia and say, okay, classic new owner syndrome came in, try to make a splash, tried to throw a team together and build excitement. I want the best players. And, you know, he hired, you know, two consecutive coaches with some pedigree guys that had accomplished some things in, in, in Vogel and then bud, but, you know, I don't, Ispia, He spent money. He was just misguided. And then he listened to good basketball people and the team that they fielded this season was like, okay, this is, this makes sense. That's competitive. It's like the Dallas, it's just like the back, the Dallas situation with those people and whatever scheme that they have up their sleeve with them. We want the casino and, you know, we, we sanction Nico getting rid of our best, the antagonism towards the fan base. And then this fucking guy comes in to Portland and he's like, I'm not paying splitter. He coached this team to, to unprecedented outcome. They made the effing playoffs. And then, you know what? Oh, congratulations playoff team. I'm getting rid of two thirds of the infrastructure that, that we, we have here in a city that's a, it's a captive audience, right? Like the only other pro they have the women's team, the women's WNBA team selling out, they have a soccer team. They have a soccer team. So I'm, you know, like the trailblazers are, are tied to that community. And by the way, that community is subsidizing your fucking stadium, bro. The state and the city approved, you know, $350 million of renovation and he's going to come in and run the organization like, what, what, to what end? His NHL strategy is trying it out. I don't know what he's doing. I don't care. I don't, I don't want to say why, why do you spend this much money on a team and then you try to cut costs all over the place. It's so weird to me. What message are you sending to the fans? That's the thing. There's a purpose of doing it here. It's not, it's not a, it's not a company. Like go ahead and run it like a company. You're asking people to pay their money. The, the revenue is, is what the bulls do. He's looking at what the bulls do. And it's like, these dumbasses are paying for their tickets every year. Maybe I'll do that. I won't pay lecture tax. I'll save money all over the place. I'll be profitable. It's very cynical. The built-in subsidy that comes from the national TV contract, they're all buoyed by it. The franchise is only going to move in one direction because, you know, these rights continue to go and we'll see how, what, what packages the NBA innovates itself into in terms of streamers on, on, you know, that whatever the cup and these, these sets of games or whatever over the next 10 years, but the, the 80 billion or what is it now, 70 billion that's left, 65 billion that's left on this, this right steal ensures a trajectory for the value and he paid what he paid. They got a valuation out of it. He was a good soldier in that respect, right? What was the valuation? 4.5 billion bucks. Well, that's what it paid. I don't know if it was the valuation. Yeah. Set the floor, right, exactly. But that's the problem. All these people are spending, they're spending that kind of money, but if the team is unprofitable, then they have to zag the other way, which raises the question, why did you pay for the first place? Yeah. And you, and setting the floor for the expansion teams that we'll see if they get the money or not. We have to go. We have to go. Congrats. On that note. Congrats on the most boring, boring PGA tournament we've had in a while. Made up for it by Wemby. Great winner, Aaron Rye. Everybody's the people's champion. People's champion, great guy. There you go. How's your, the people's champion? Thanks for staying up with me. We're going to take a break. We're going to come back with CR, Chris Ryan, Anthony de Bundo. We're going to talk some soccer next. So I'll play off so long. I've been looking through the lines, the props, the futures, everything, sharing my favorite picks from Fandals Sportsbook on my Twitter feed. I share a lot of times a straight up bet, Parley, I'll do some add ons. And I'm looking at this game to OKC, San Antonio. I think there was some really instructive lineup stuff that my guess is OKC is just going to have to go smaller. And then conversely, San Antonio might have to play more guards as well. So I want to try to figure out the right kind of same gamer that steers towards some of the shorter players, shall we call them. So I will have a final pick on that before game two on my Twitter feed. Still debating who's going to win. I think every one of these games is going to be close. You look at game one, if Caruso doesn't hit 10 shots, he makes like six, seven threes. If he doesn't have basically the shooting game of his life, I think San Antonio would have won that game by 20. And that was with Castle turned the ball over 11 times, no Darren Fox. So I feel like all these games are close or San Antonio is going to win. So I'm probably leaning San Antonio plus the points. When I bet, I bet with Fandal, a brand I trust it's easy to build my NBA bets on Fandal because I know I'm getting great odds, payouts on my Parley's boosts every day. I'll get my winnings instantly. Fandal, play your game. All right, CR, Chris Ryan is here. Anthony de Bundo here as well. You can hear him and listen to him and watch him all the time on the Ringer gambling show. And this is his time because basketball and HL playoffs, tennis, although we lost Alcaroz for Wimbledon today, World Cups coming, Champions League. And then I just have so many soccer questions that I know nothing. So I'm like, I'm just going to bring two smart guys on the pod who follow soccer and they're going to tell me stuff. Let's start here. Tottenham might be out of the Premier League. I had my second kid and I just, I fell off with them and I apologize. But so they lost today. Explain the stakes de Bundo on Sunday. Walk us through everything we have to look forward to. When is this game going to be on? What's going to happen? Can I wager on this? Walk us through it. So Tottenham are two points ahead of West Ham with one match to play and all 20 teams play simultaneously on the final day, 11 a.m. Eastern. So 8 a.m. Pacific, Sunday morning, a little coffee and football. Tottenham are at home against Everton who have nothing to play for, but I'm sure would love to play spoiler. West Ham host Leeds who also have nothing to play for. Tottenham just need to draw. If they draw, they will be safe. However, if they lose and West Ham wins, then Tottenham, one of the 10 richest teams in the world, one of the six richest teams in England and one of the biggest clubs and historic clubs in the sport will be relegated to the second division, which as a Spurs fan myself is an existential crisis that I've never felt as a sports fan in my life. Our American teams have bad years, but like, okay, we'll get them next year. This is not something I've ever experienced. So now I'm kind of terrified. Ciar, what's the history of this? What's the worst example of this ever happening? Honestly, well, one of them is Leeds. So Leeds like who flew too close to the sun about, I guess it would have to be back to 20 some years ago, went down and it took them forever to get back up into the Premier League and really have only like fully stabilized themselves as a Premier League club in the last couple of seasons. The one silver lining to this that I would give to Bundo is that we have recent history with clubs like Aston Villa and Newcastle going down and then coming back up. Tottenham has like too much money to fail. Ultimately, like they'll lose some really good players. It's going to be tough that they have essentially the Crown Jewel Stadium or one of them in the entire country and they're going to be hosting like really small clubs if they go down. But I don't think it's done deal yet. When I watched West Ham, the last West Ham match, I was like, that club looks like fully on its knees. But Tottenham really needed this one today. And I think it's probably all the more painful that Chelsea beat them today. So this is as much drama as we could possibly get on a Sunday other than if the actual title was at stake. Yeah, it would have been cool if City had won today just for last day, final stakes. But yeah, Arsenal is now officially the Premier League champions as of today. Which is an even bigger buzzkill for us as Spurs fans. Your biggest rival could win the league and you could get relegated in the same year. It's like the worst year imaginable for us. So DeBundo, what is the NFL NBA equivalent of this? Everything that's happening right now, would it be like if the Sixers were in danger of getting relegated? Like how big of a team are they? I don't even think there is a comp. I was thinking like the New York Giants maybe. It's not the Cowboys, but like the Giants or the Chicago Bears. Just being out of the NFL for a year. It would be honestly a good one would be the Red Sox have to go to AAA baseball for the season while the Yankees are coronated as World Series champions. Oh my God. I can't even imagine. For Arsenal and Tottenham fans, that's what the rivalry is. Except it would be like if they were in the same city and they just hated each other. They were the same part of the same city. So from a bragging right standpoint, can you come back from this? No. Yeah. It would take multiple generations. I mean, look, Arsenal had a holiday that they used to call every year, St. Tottenham's Day. They would celebrate it every year when they finished above Spurs and for 20 straight years they did. And honestly, as a Spurs fan, the year we finally broke that, it shouldn't have mattered, but it really did. We finally were able to have a run of dominance and for five or six years, Spurs were the best team in North London. That has dramatically flipped now the last three or four years where Arsenal is taking back control. But the odds of, you know, Tottenham haven't been relegated in this era of the Premier League. It hasn't happened to the club since the 70s. And then since the Premier League was founded in 92, they've never been relegated. So this would be, yeah, bad as bad as it gets. And also- This is a huge deal. Like C.R. said, you don't know what the team looks like next year. Like they're not going to be able to recruit players. They're going to lose all their good players. If you're a good Tottenham player, why would you want to stay when you can go play for another better team? They, it creates a bit of a, you know, snowball effect down the hill here that could happen for the club. I'm so fascinated in this. And I wish I had gotten more fascinated sooner, because I would have really enjoyed the- I first remember midseason like, hey, they might get relegated. It's like, there's no way. They've way too much money. But to be in that crazy stadium, they have playing, playing secondly games. I don't even, I can't even, it breaks my brain much like Wemby's 32.3 foot three broke my brain last night. Very similar. You know, and it's not dissimilar from that where it's like a great reminder of why sports is just amazing to watch. Where it's like, for a couple of years, it felt like maybe the gap was getting too wide between championship and Premier League football. The money was getting too distorted. And you'd frequently have teams that came up and went right back down. And in some ways, some teams actually like modeled their success by like getting up for a season to get Premier League money, getting the parachute payments going back down. That it was like its own kind of money ball in a sense. Like there are clubs like Ipswich or West Brom who might even have said to like, oh, this is how like our model for our success taught. It's not supposed to happen at Tottenham. You know, like this is Tottenham was a couple of years ago, like knocking on the door of, of the top three, four in the country. And they built this enormous stadium and mortgaged a lot of their future on this stadium. And now they have to, you know, they're going to have to figure out a way to pay for it with like no walk coming to town. Unbelievable. They've also financially built a team like around the club. Everything off the field about Tottenham is great. The books look great. Everybody's happy with the business, the stadium, all that stuff. And it's come at the expense of they had the same guy running the team, Daniel Evey, who's been running the club for 25 years. He just departed. The club became so big to the point where, where he wasn't doing a good enough job overseeing the actual soccer team, you know, the buying and the selling of the players. And they just let the transfer strategy completely rot. And they embraced a bad kind of analytics that got them into a lot of bets on a lot of players that didn't have upside that maybe they thought they did. And now they're left with a pretty rotting core of untalented young players. So, so is there a villain? Like who are the, who are the Spurs fans? You know, they would probably point to, I think some Spurs fans would probably point to Thomas Frank, who managed the club at the beginning of this season and was a really heralded hiring. He had come over from Brentford. He like played smart football, which was tactically astute. And he had Brentford was a really pretty small London club punching way above their weight. And I think people thought it was a pretty logical hire. And it just went so disastrously and so poorly. And then Sabundo, who was the manager in between Frank and Deserby? Yeah, Igor Tudor. That's right. Very short-lived run. This guy was supposed to be basically an emergency room surgeon and his expertise is to like keep them up. And he shows up and like, I think he was gone what in like 19 days? How long was he there? Right? It was, it was less than Liz Truss. I think it was like 40, 40 something days. Yeah. This is where the first Liz Truss mentions on Bill's Pod. This is great. And now they've got this guy, Roberto Deserby, who came over from, he was coaching in France at Marseille. And he plays like really electrifying football, but it just might be too late. And, you know, these guys are coming in, it's like hiring a coach in any other league midseason. It's like, you're not practicing all the time. You've got games every like three days, pretty much. And now it's, it's really just a like all hands on deck Sunday is going to be nuts for that. So is what are the stakes for the players on the team? Right? Because if this happened to like, I don't know, the Chicago Bulls, Josh Giddy would care that he was down in the G league for a year and he would have no way of getting out of his contract. Can all of these guys like get out of their deals? Like what happens? That's the thing. It's a little bit of a black box. You don't really know. Now a lot of the lower ranked teams, when they sign contracts with those teams, the players will get some kind of relegation clause. But, you know, when you're negotiating with Tottenham, are they still making sure to check, you know, cross the T's and dot the I's to make sure that there's clauses in there. So we don't entirely know. Yes, it's entirely public. Just how many players can leave. However, they do have still multiple world-class players. Christian Romero, who's going to start for Argentina this summer, Mickey Van De Ven. There are James Madison, who's been a Premier League champion in the past. Like there's plenty of players in this team that could go and play in other Premier League teams or other countries and be very, very successful there. So those guys are going to want out and you can't just hold them hostage. So it's going to be very fascinating to see what happens this summer. They're also going to want to sell high on whatever. I mean, if you call it selling high, because they've been relegated. So their value on a player for player basis is probably lower than it's ever been. But they'll probably try and sell high to like mitigate some of the financial losses they're going to experience. From having no fans for a year? Well, then the money, the TV money. There's something to be said for, there is history of teams going down and it's almost like a cleanse. You know what I mean? We have to get all the bad blood out. Maybe we get some of these contracts out. We're going to immediately be these runaway favorites to go wire to wire to win the championship next year. I mean, Tottenham in the championship is insane. So I would assume that they will probably have a pretty glorious run in the championship where they kick ass all season and their fans, the ones who show up, I don't know if they'll be like a full capacity Tottenham stadium, but it'll be like fun. You know what I mean? It's just going to be weird because you're in the championship. It'll be nice to win again. Yeah. So this is Red Sox and then AAA. Yes, basically. But you did ask Bill, like who is at fault here? Daniel Levy is the first name. Johann Long, who's the new sporting director. He's the second name, but this is not a one-year issue. And I think that's the one other problem. They finished 17th last year. They had the most bizarre season where Angi Pasta Cogu was their manager. They finished 17th and they were never actually in danger of getting relegated to 18th as relegation because the gap was pretty big, but they barely won any games the second half of the season. They put all their eggs into the Europa League, which is a secondary competition. They won that. They won their first trophy in 18 years, 17 years last year. And then they had to make a decision on the manager. He just won you your first trophy in 17 years, but you were awful. Most of the season they fired him. And a lot of people had mixed opinions on that decision. He's probably looking down smiling at the moment at the fact that he might be relegated. Angi Pasta Cogu. So for the people that don't know this that are listening, I wrote a whole giant column about trying to pick a Premier League team. I think in 07. It was before my second kid was born. And I really tried to get into it for a couple years. And I watched a lot of soccer and my daughter started playing and I actually did follow it. And then I just couldn't keep up. There was too much sports. There was too much parents stuff. It is funny CR that I picked what seems to be the perfect team for me. I think I really would have enjoyed this Tottenham ride the last 20 years. So I would be losing my mind right now if they're about to get relegated. Yeah. You should also maybe have chosen Liverpool in the first place. So you could see where all of John Henry's money was going. Yeah. That's true. So that was that that was the runner up. But I think they had had a little too much success when I was trying to figure it out. I wanted I wanted a team that you know, it was going to they were going to rise up and exercise demons, all this stuff. And it just yeah, there's nothing like a Rafi Devers getting traded and maybe a couple of texts. You would be like, thanks again. It didn't really work out though. Liverpool just spent the most money they've ever spent on one player the same week that Rafael Devers was traded. Unbelievable. That's why we're all on them. So West Ham, what is the NFL NBA equivalent to them like mid level? That's a good question. I think of them more like a Chicago Bulls like they are historically really well supported club. They I don't even know if they've ever they never really had a Jordan era, although they have been great in the past historically. But they have moved into the London Olympic Stadium out of Upton Park, which is where they moved into, you know, this giant cavern of a stadium and have been pretty bad for the last couple of seasons. I think they did they made some noise in the conference league to bundle. I can't remember. They won the conference. They won the conference. The third tier kind of competition below the NIT level tournament in Europe. But if they go down, it's actually actually equally catastrophic. I mean, their owners are embattled. They've got a lease on this stadium that their fans don't like going to and they don't have nearly the talent pipeline. I don't think the Tottenham, you know, no, they don't have the resources either. I mean, they're a mid table financial club with more history than that. But you mentioned the stadium thing. I went to London Stadium last year. It is not a very exciting place to watch a game. They don't get great crowds. The noise is kind of just it's got a running track reverberates the stands from the field. So it's just like, yeah, I went to that stadium for the 2012 Olympics. I can't believe that that's where they play. Yeah. And Upton Park was like famously very loud and like a tough place to play. And they just haven't had that. And they've done a similarly bad job with squad recruitment. Like they've, they've recruited a lot of players that don't really fit together and then tried four different managers and none of them have worked. But since David Moyes laughed, it's been a steady decline. So this was the biggest Premier League story this year. Was there something else? I mean, Arsenal winning the title for the first time in 18 years, 22 years, 2004. I think the reason why maybe people who are outside of the internal like the Arsenal fandom, like I was funny, I was just recording, wait a second with concept soon. And he was saying that he was going to London soon. And I was like, oh, for the parade, he was like, what do you mean? I was like, Arsenal just clinched the title and he had like kind of a stroke when I told him that. But you know, for Arsenal fans, I think it's been incredibly rewarding. And I used to have a lot of affection for Arsenal as like a neutral kind of like, I liked watching them play. But this season has been pretty, it's kind of like the, what happened to the Thunder where it was like they were everybody's darlings a couple of years ago. Are they fawning? No, it's, but they scored a quarter of their goals have come off of quarter kicks. I have a comp and a lot of people in my community got mad at me for this. They are the Eagles. They are the Eagles like the 2025. Yeah, they literally are essentially boring to watch. They win with their elite defense and their goals this year. Like the main difference between them and their main title contenders was that they mastered the art of the set piece and they built what's called a meatball where they just like block the goalie out and then they send the ball in and they're bigger and taller than everybody else. So they just score all these headed goals of set pieces. And look, credit to them. Don't hate the player, hate the game, but they're not a fun team to watch. So it's like when you watch Caruso and Dort like foul four times in a possession, it's like, well, you can only really call one foul, right? So like, we'll just do it everywhere. Well, see, are you know, I'm a big set piece guy. For real, I really feel like it's underrated part of soccer. The czar of the set piece. Listen, my daughter who's coming up later on this pod, it's been 17 years of watching her on soccer teams. And as you get older, they're always these teams that's like the secret sauce and they figure it out and they get like one free kick goal, one corner kick goal and they went to nothing. And you're like, what just happened? We dominated possession the whole time. Yeah. Anyway, I like the set piece. That's arsenal. And that's honestly, it's creating a larger question about the World Cup this summer, too. How is that going to be officiated? Because the ball was in play less this year in the Premier League than it's ever been set piece goals were up. It's not even just corners and free kicks now. Teams have guys, Brentford has a guy whose main job is that he can throw the ball over his head 40 yards. And like, they just make sure to bring him in so that he can, you know, come whenever side of the field they're on, he comes in and throws the ball 40 yards into the penalty area. And then they just scrum around. It's not the most exciting. When you think of the beautiful game, you're not thinking of that. Yeah. I think for a lot of people watch the Premier League this year and we're like, eh, like there's something kind of missing here. And then we had a Champions League semi-final between Bayern Munich and PSG that happened a couple of weeks ago. It was like shooting like drugs right into your carotid artery. It was like, I was like, oh, this, I've missed this. This is what this sport's supposed to be. This is so electric. And then you go back and watch guys who just basically like fouling each other on set pieces on their way to a title. It's kind of a bummer. So Champions, Champions League, the final. DeBundo, did you make a pick yet? Yeah, it's funny. I think it's a toss up and the betting odds have PSG as a favorite. This is the classic clash of styles. PSG have way better attackers. But when they played last year, Arsenal was right there. I think Arsenal is very live to win it. They're not against, not the sexy pick. Even Victor Wembenyama weighed in. He was making fun of Arsenal's play style. Said, of course, PSG, of course he's French, but he was saying, you know, nobody wants Arsenal to win and except for Arsenal fans. It does feel that way. As like the numbers nerd though, I do think they're pretty even teams. CR Premier League title and Champions League in Spain of a March. That's impressive. Yeah, it would be really like a really significant achievement for them. And for Arteta, the, Michael Arteta, the manager for Arsenal, Spain, the other big headline coming out of the Premier League season, if since you asked like that a couple of minutes ago is this, we found out is going to be the last season, the Pep Guardiola manages Man City. So he's been there for, what is it, 13, 10 years, something like that. Like he's won an obscene amount of titles, like in terms of Premier League titles, FA Cups, Carabao Cups over that time period. And it kind of marks the end of any era in the Premier League. Do we like Arsenal fans? I love many Arsenal fans. Jeff Chas is an Arsenal fan, right? Ian Wright is an Arsenal legend. What type of personality, what kind of personality type is an Arsenal fan? Are they the most popular fan base in America? I think there's a huge crossover between Arsenal and Nick's fans. Oh, that's enlightening. That makes sense. I feel that too. Who is our least favorite fan base right now? Well, my answer is still going to be Arsenal. That's because my phone has been just off the hook. And what am I supposed to say? I mean, I picked them before the season. I told you guys it was going to happen. You can't throw it in my face. They still will, of course, as they should. What about UCR, which is your least favorite fan base? I think it's a Liverpool fan, Manchester United fans are my least favorite fan base. I remember when I was doing that exercise, I really was intrigued by Newcastle. But part of the exercise was I need to go, if I go overseas for a game, what would be a fun trip? And Newcastle a lot. But I really liked how kind of tortured. There's a fair amount of speculation. So Newcastle in the intervening years, they were heavily invested in by the Saudi PIF. And now people are speculating that something similar could happen to them that happened to live. Oh, yeah. Well, it won't be as catastrophic, probably, but they are looking for outside investment. It looks like they are trying to unwind their sports position. World Cup starting, what are we down to a month? Last week. Last week. Less. Four weeks. Three weeks. Four weeks from Thursday. DeBundo, this is the greatest summer of your life. I'm very excited. But greatest sports year of my life. I was talking about this with Sheel a couple of weeks ago. We just had the PGA at Aronamik. I was down there on Sunday. We've got All-Star Game in Philly this year. It's a great year for Philly. But then, yeah, the World Cup, the Winter Olympics were great. I'm not sure we'll have a better sports year. However, that could change on Sunday. If Tottenham gets relegated, I will not feel like this is the best sports year of my life. Checked any of the resellers to see what those World Cup tickets are going for in Philly? They're dropping. Are they dropping? They are now. Okay. I mean, we didn't get the best slate. Have you looked at the Philly slate, Ciara? Yeah, it's not that great. It's not the sexiest slate. I've recosed Ecuador. That's going to be like the Dark Horse Battle. But other than that, we got a pretty mediocre slate. DeBundo, you know about Ciara, right? World Cup Bigamist. Really? Two separate lives. Like those Lifetime movies where the person has the separate family and another house. What would be that? What would be my Netflix title for you? World Cup Bigamist. That would be it with a picture view with a jersey that has two different logos on it. That's right. So who did you root for on Black Friday in 2022? I can't recall. Did you give a nice little golf clap when it ended in a draw? Honestly, he's not going to say, but he's probably 60-40 England. Honestly, it's not that hard to be 60-40. You're rooting for a team that has a chance. I don't really like the USMNT, honestly. That's what he's talked himself into is I don't like how we're run. I don't like our style and culture. I don't like our youth program system. It's I'm rebelling against this. My father was English. I was introduced to the game through his perspective, through his lens. I always enjoyed like the drama around the England national team. Ciara, I support it. You don't have to apologize to us. But when you're a sports bigamist, there's always a chance the two teams are going to play and you're going to have some real reconciling to do. I don't think that would be this year because that's going to be a problem. I don't. It doesn't seem like I saw Rob Stone this weekend, actually, who's obviously have been involved in the World Cup. And I was like pushing him to get me excited about the American team. And he tried. I felt like he was going through the motions. And it just feels like even though everybody seems to agree, it's one of the more talented teams we've ever had. And we have all these good American soccer players. Nobody seems to think they're going to do that World Cup. So you agree with that, Debunda? Well, I will say they got some bad news because their best center back went off injured for Crystal Palace over the week. So if he's out, they have no good center backs. They're already had a problem where they only have one. You need this. The second one is going to be a 38 year old Tim Reem, who's looking a little old for MLS. And so the defense looks problematic. The goalie situation is the worst. It's been my lifetime and the defensive situation looks bad. However, the good news is their star attacker, Christian Pulisic, he has not scored yet in Syria in 2026. So he's doing great too. A lot of excitement for a team USA at the World Cup. Brutal. Who? See, who do you think is going to win? Do you have a pick yet? This is one of the hardest ones for me to pick in a long time just because of the unique nature of playing outdoors in America in the summer is going to, I think, sweat down some of the veteran teams. So I think I am leaning France, but I don't really know. I mean, France is just so talented from one to like, a second team, France could probably make it to the last four. So Debundo, that's what I was looking at too, because I think Wemby is going to win the NBA title. And I'm a big believer in the cluster theory and him winning the title on American soil, followed by France, followed by all of us wondering how we let this happen with France. And we thought we got rid of them a bunch of times over the years. I made fun of France on a pod. I got a long email from somebody who's like, Hey, we've been there for you for like seven wars. What the fuck? Lafayette. I got really, really bad. Lafayette. Did that all after nothing? Sorry. But, but yeah, I wonder, I do wonder if there's a cluster theory. Who do you like for the World Cup? I mean, if you just lined up the team, France is the most talented. Like, I don't even think it's debatable. By the way, if you're doing narratives too, Keelyne and Bapé, talk about a guy who kind of needs a big World Cup. Because PSG might win a second consecutive Champions League since he departed. Look, ultimate Ewing theory. And Real Madrid is exploding like on his watch right now. Yeah. There are 40 million signatures from Madrid Estas to get him out at Real Madrid. They're not very happy with Keelyne, even though he scores a lot of goals. But yeah, I mean, France is the most talented team. Spain, you know, LaMineum all is their best player. He's not going to be healthy for the start of the tournament. He's got a leg injury that he probably won't be 100%. And you never know with those. I actually like CR's England a lot. I like that they have a real manager who has tactical know-how this time, unlike Garry Southgate. But again, like, do I trust the English in the American summer to not wilt? It's going to be like it's going to be quarterfinal, semi-finals, and it's a penalty shootout. And then it's just it's it's it's hard to like project out when you know that's losing. I think that there's a couple of interesting storylines going into the cup. One of them is de Bunder just alluded to that there's a couple of really good managers working in this one. Obviously, Pocahontino is managing the USMNT. He comes from among other places, Tottenham. Carlo Ancelotti is managing the Brazilian national team. And it's I think this is his first time as an international manager, but he just wins shit a lot. And I would keep an eye on Brazil, even though they've got kind of a chaotic roster. And Thomas Tuchel, who's managing England is pretty tactically astute. So there's a lot of interesting stuff happening in that department. It's probably the most talented group of managers we've ever had at the World Cup. Like you don't often see a lot of the elite club guys go do international. And a lot of them are just like, yeah, I'll go take my shot at the World Cup. Why not? Any weirdness for England considering it'll be 250 years since we sent them the fuck out of here, CR sent them packing. Think it'll be weird to come back on an anniversary or no. That never comes up. That's not going to come up at the pre-game. What if they play on July 4th? Like they're definitely losing, right? Yeah, they'll be in the back of their head, you know, when we push them out to Bundo. Can you give us a dark horse, please? US is 55 to 1 to win the World Cup. I would advise people not to wager on that. No, please do not bet that. Underdogs never win, actually win the World Cup. There's only eight countries that have ever won it. Seven of them are in this tournament. Italy, I guess would be my second country. They didn't quite make it once again. But Ecuador is going to be my team. I love this team. They were actually better than Brazil in World Cup qualifying. They have three or four guys who are mainstays on Champions League teams. 80 to 1 to Bundo. Yeah, I don't think they can win it. But like, you know, they're in a group with Germany. I think they match up pretty well with them. Ivory Coast, like that's going to be a really fun underrated group. And I think nobody's going to want to play them because they only gave up, I think it was five goals in 18 South American World Cup qualifying matches. So elite defensively, not a ton of goals there. So probably low ceiling, but I think they could make a run. They're not that different from what Morocco did a few years ago, in terms of like having a handful of really good players and a good system and a good defense. It would have been funny if to Bundo's like, you know, I'm looking at Sweden. Really well run country, really have liked everything. Everything I've heard about those guys. Oh man, I don't like the Swedes. As a Dark Horse? Yeah, what do you got for a Dark Horse? I love the Swedes as a people, but not as the soccer team this year. You know, in Netherlands, what are they, plus 2000? I mean, that's interesting to me. They have a lot of really nice players. I think they tend to burn quick and then flame out like at crucial moments and tournaments, but they have like a really solid squad. So I think that's a nice one to look at. I'm a little bit Eurocentric when it comes to the World Cup kind of favoritism though. It's hard for me, you know, to see Argentina, for instance, at plus 900, like getting back into it here. So I, as it stands now, I'm looking at the Netherlands. So eight countries ever and one is not in? Yep. We must three straight World Cups. Our Italians missed. I want to do it 30 for 30 about that Netherlands team in the 70s. And we never got it together. Oh, the Johan Cruyff team? Yeah. Yeah. They were kind of like the 2000 Steve Nash sons of the 1970s basically. And we were talking about that back in Gryllin. I remember that. Yeah. We always circled that idea. We never, we never got there. All right. Well, DeBundo, good luck on Sunday. It sounds like you're going to, it sounds like you're okay. You just need, need a draw against the team that doesn't care if they win or lose. It sounds like. That's right. I'm going to lose anyway. And then they could be fine. Yeah. Odds are probably like six to one that we go down five to one, but it's high enough that I'm uncomfortable. All right. CR, I'm glad we're still getting along after six or Celtics. I think this water into the bridge, brother. It just turned out badly for both of us. You know what? That's one of the things that was actually comforting about watching the Spurs last night. And I was like, oh, you know what? This is a different sport. We had no fucking shot. Honestly. Like Kada against Wimpynyama. Yeah. I mean, not that you would even go to the finals anyway, but I was, this happens right around now. Last couple of NBA seasons are like, oh, that's how far we are. Forget it. They're levels. I'm not even mad. Yeah. There's a speed thing and you can really feel it with the perimeter guys too. There was a speed thing going on. It's almost like watching two lightweight boxers or welterweight boxers and they're just flying. And you're like, oh man. I was watching Caruso getting stronger as the game went on. And I was like, never mind. Yeah. Yeah. See, I was wondering what was going on with them. Yeah. Maybe you got some Paul George tips. I was like, this is nuts. Are they just going to leave him open all series? Is that the plan? Just hope he misses. Well, that's the Spurs, the flip side that I think they're going to let Fox and Harper just take threes now. I think you have to double Wemby. Right. You can't. You basically have to live and die with guys on the Spurs. Premier threes would be my guess, but are you up or down for the playoffs, Debundo? I'm up. Thanks to Jalen Dern. What a guy that he's been great. You know, you hate to do a hate watch sometimes, but I bet under 0.3 thousand assists in every game. Terry Rogier. We went six and one. He Terry Rogier. Yeah. I've been listening to some of that. In the Pistons Cav series. And then I actually had Caruso over last night, which might have been the easiest win in my life. Oh my God. I was a lot of fun. Yeah. I went big on Spurs, Nick, after around one and half. So I went on the Spurs this year. I have a lot of Spurs stuff. Just at some point it was like, what are we doing here? These odds are out of whack. But now the odds are, now it's like they're dead even. It's minus 108 for Spurs or OKC. It couldn't be more even. You know, we were on the verge of NBA history, Bill. Which one? Never before has the NBA Cup final then repeated. I know. You love this. The long storied history NBA. You made Sal love this. Sal is now excited about this. He's so not corrupted Sal. He's like the NBA Cup. We've never had a rematch. We could get a rematch if we get Spurs, Nick's. And the Cup heads are very excited about it. We're very excited. It does feel like the biggest possible finals we could have. Like, when we against the New York Knicks. When we in the Garden. The best we can do, I think. Right. And probably the toughest, I would say, if it does happen, those tickets at MSG will be the single hardest finals tickets probably ever. Do you see there's already a StubHub court side price for game one of the finals for the Knicks? Is it like 30,000? There was one listed for 100,000, which I think might have been overlisted. Somebody tweeted for 100,000. I got to be checking into the game. Well, the other thing that's probably fair. The other thing is Dolan controls all this stuff. And is it going to work with the league? And he's just going to be like, I've made promises to Bobby Bakula and Matthew Modyn and all these other people that had it been going forever. We always got to drag Modyn through the mud here. Modyn's been a great Knicks Liberty supporter. We still, I'm still trying to get to the bottom of that Sixers game three, whether it was really M Knight Shyamalan who gave his tickets to Timothy Shalamey to allow him to stick court side and Philly. Oh, is that a rumor? It's a controversy. Would that be a, we'd have to ban him, right? Yeah. I mean, to the extent that like he is the most notable court side guy in Sixers. That's disgusting. If that's what he did, that would really be horrible. CR, I'll see you on Friday because we're doing Animal House. This is the last comedy. This could be the last free watch was ever. The Bundle. I'll be watching them when you're gambling. Say hi to the crew for me. Thanks guys. Thanks for having me. This episode is brought to you by Expedia and Visit Scotland. Start your story in Scotland. Experience the pool of wide untamed landscapes and fresh cuisine that feels rooted in place. Discover castles steeped in legend and feel the genuine warmth from locals you meet in a place that will stay with you long after you leave. Start planning your own Scottish holiday today at Expedia.co.uk slash Visit Scotland. All right. It's a family read and my daughter is home briefly from school. She has to leave for an internship. Murph joining us for the first time ever. Is this his first on time cameo? I think it might be his first podcast. We wanted to put a mic in front of his face but. We thought the mic would freak him out but he's here. It looks like he's going to nap there and that's he's just happy to be here. He's happy to be here. All right. So we used to call this for realsies. We called it team patrol. Now you're 21. You turned 21 two weeks ago. You're a young adult. I am. How does that make you feel? Are you feeling old? Terrible. Yeah. I'm sorry. I feel awful. It was fun having drinks with you on your 21st birthday though. Yeah. And watching you flash your ID to everybody. I'd like to stay at this age forever. Now that I'm here I don't want to get any older. It's an exciting time for me but probably a daunting time for you and mom. Do you want to say final thanks to all the fake ID people you were over the years? I will. Like say goodbye to Quinn. I'll say I was Quinn. Thank you Quinn for your service. I was Zoe Simmons but I lived in Bakersfield. Yeah. So I lived in Long Beach. I appreciate all my old homes. Thank you everyone for your service. I told you I was Bart Osborne for like two and a half years. I just can't believe that anyone would believe your name was Bart. And I was 5'10 and I would always crouch when I was buying. So anyway I'm glad you're 21. Welcome to adulthood. We're going to talk about Euphoria first. The most important show of your generation of the 2020s. Went away for a while. The stars on the show became super famous. Almost too famous to be in a TV show. Now the show is back and polarizing? Are people mad? What's the deal? Yeah people aren't happy about what's going on with this season. Why? I have a few issues with it. Well first of which it's the Cassie show which no one signed up for. At the beginning of Euphoria it was all surrounded by Rue. Rue was the center and then all of the exterior relationships were kind of side pots. But this season it feels like Sidney Sweeney and her boobs are the two main characters. And everyone else is just kind of doing their own thing. So there's been a lot of dialogue in our house about this. About why they chose to do this. And either she's making fun of the persona that people seem to think she is the last four years. Or Sam Levinson the creator and director. He's making fun of her and she doesn't realize it. So where do you stand? I would like to believe that the first reason would be the correct one. But at the same time Sidney Sweeney and every single brand deal. Every single internet thing that she's done has made me believe that she genuinely is that type of person. Like the American Eagle ad was a conversation within all of my classes in college for months on end. Far too long. People were triggered. There was some triggering. People were triggered. But like I mean it's I just don't I I think she that is who she is. And honestly props to her for standing so true to her identity I guess. But I think Sam Levinson is making fun of her. The monstrous boob version of Sidney Sweeney destroying all of LA was kind of like oh maybe he's not on her side here. The Godzilla boobs Godzilla boobs. She said it was like one of the highlights of her career to do that. I'm sure it was because her career is within this area of her body. So of course she's going to be ecstatic that her boobs were bigger than like the stadium or the staple center. Yeah like so you didn't like the boxing movie is what you're telling me. I didn't. I thought it was pretty good. I'm sure it was. I don't know. I have a problem with her why I can't get into her characters because she's just the same person in every show. Yeah. And euphoria to me feels the most authentic to her and this season has reigned true to that. But she's the first biggest problem. Okay. My second biggest problem is that Nate Jacobs has become am I allowed to say the P word here. Sure you say what you want. Nate Jacobs has become a major pussy and he's but he's we have to remember that he beat up Maddie Perez in season one. He single-handedly put his father in jail and uprooted his whole life. And he was the biggest bully at the school that they went to and now he's getting bossed around by Sydney Suni and her big boobs. And and these gangsters that are extorting him for money. Right. It's like Nate wouldn't you think that you should start carrying like a gun or maybe like a pocket knife or something to defend yourself. You're just going to keep getting limbs cut off without doing anything. Also you're six five and you're a former quarterback. You can't fight back against anybody. That's what I'm saying. I really I dislike the fact that he has been completely emasculated in this season. And he's losing toes. He's losing toes and fingers. I liked when Jacob Elordi was like this force in euphoria and he's no longer that. So that's a major problem. OK. I'm also just not understanding where the season's going to go because we're six episodes in now and Rue has almost been murdered multiple times by the new person that she works for. Maddie somehow getting involved in this entire stripper deal. And it's just Sydney Suni boobs. So it's like where is the where is everything going to come together. I'm not sure. And it's Rue making this face for pretty much 90 percent of the episodes. Yeah. She always looks like that. That's a good job dad. He's pretty like you look at me like that. Scared. I don't like that. Yeah. But you have to say something to her. She's like come on man. Come on. I don't know. I feel like she's a great actress obviously. I feel like she's a little bit on autopilot this season. I mean she has a lot of shit going on. Probably the biggest female movie star we have. And she's like oh fuck I got to be on season three of this show. So I feel like if this was basketball this would be like Jason Tatum in February playing the Nets and just kind of running up and down and shooting threes. I'm with you. It seems like Sydney Suni is the only one that's really like into it and she might need this. This was her starting place and maybe I mean she's huge. So I don't know if that's accurate. So how much how much content have you consumed about Sydney and Zendaya and not not being in the same place and never filming the same because you you pointed out in the wedding scene you never actually saw them on screen together. They're never on screen together and Zendaya just doesn't like her. I mean that's at least what I've read and I've heard through the media. Yeah I don't I just don't want to say things that might not be true. I don't think she likes her. Yeah. And more than that I do respect the fact that she values herself as an actress to such a level where she's not going to like put herself in that position to be in scenes with someone she dislikes. At the same time it just it fucks with the show and there are multiple relationships on the show where people don't want to be on screen with one another. You're right. Which is problematic because they're just. Well they got rid of the girl from Faces of Death. What's her name? Oh Barbie Ferrera. We kind of like that movie. We were all right with it. I thought it was good. She was definitely dialing it up. I like her a lot but she also had her own problems with Sam Levinson. It just seems like it's been too much time, too much baggage, too much shit has happened. Honestly I was surprised that this season is as compelling as it is because I thought it was going to be a total train wreck. Yeah. So I'm happy to watch it. You know I'm not a tough audience. Like I can watch anything and be like that was enjoyable. I'm having a good time. I just want to know like some consistency of the plot line or where this is going. No tell me lies for you. What do you mean? Like not even close to tell me lies. How excited you were after that season. No because that I mean because we had a villain the whole time. This show it's like our villain is so inconsistent and I wanted Nate Jacobs to be the villain because he's my favorite villain. Yeah. And now he's just like this fucking loser that's like hiding out in his house waiting for more toes and fingers to be cut off. So. How many is he have? Ten fingers, ten fingers. He's down to like. 17 left that can get cut off. Yeah it's like maybe Nate Jacobs pick up a pocket knife. That's all that I have to say. And you were happy with the Tom Eli season finale right? Absolutely. I mean it was it was great. Some people had some things to say. I honestly like that Steven won because I thought Lucy was a bigger loser than he is. So. Interesting. At least he had some ambition and he was committed to the fact that he's an awful person. Lucy spent the whole season trying to convince everyone that she wasn't. Meanwhile she is. So. And then you love JFK love story. Oh my god. Was the other one you loved. The best. Even though it kind of ended weekly. I hate to say this. I probably should have known more about what happened with them but I really didn't know much. Yeah. So watching this show for me was like it was a lot to take in because I really didn't know much about what happened to him or her. But she's incredible. Did you know they died right? I only knew that JFK died. I didn't know that Caroline Bassett also died. So that was I mean I loved that show. I wish more shows like that would come out just about the ins and outs of like really popular relationships. You might like the OJ show. Maybe we should watch that before you hear it. I mean that was the left turn. No. That was the same kind of show where it was like real life but really well done with good actors. I think she's great too. The lady that plays Caroline Bassett. I can't remember her name but she'll be huge. She's gorgeous. I like Caroline or Bassett. Bassett. I think it's Bassett. Bassett. Caroline Bassett. Sorry Caroline. You liked her. You thought that 90s style was back. Oh yeah. The close. Well she's just classic. And I like that the internet's like dressing like Caroline Bassett today and it's like no like you're just dressing like a chic normal person like but the internet just likes to ascribe labels and names of things that don't need them. But I do like that her style is coming back into the forefront because she's great. And you like that roommate show on the movie The Sandler's Doll. Awesome. I love everything that those two girls do and obviously Sandler is like my he's my peak. I just I love him the most. Yeah. That movie was great. I mean as someone that's in college and you have roommates and obviously my roommates have never ever been like that person but it's just interesting to see and to watch and be like that was funny and I understand what you mean and how you feel. The algorithm really understands you. Yeah. So your MVP of 2026 is Lord. Yes. Who you just saw in concert last week and you said it was the greatest night of your life. She's just I don't have many musical artists that I feel that way for. With her it's like time stops. Like I get really weird about Lord. I love love love her. Is that a polarizing opinion or do most people feel the way. No I think that people because she's been labeled like cringe at times or her music is like too old or outdated because we all listen to it when I was 10 remember Royals. What's cringy though though. Oh Royals. Yeah but just because she's been around for such a long time people have problems with people who have remained successful that long and also like she's had some moments at concerts where she's like shushed the crowd and done some things but she's just like really feels things and the internet doesn't get that sometimes. I think that people that listen to her music feel the same way that I do. And you like Maggie what's her face too right. Maggie Rogers. Maggie Rogers. Oh yeah she's great too. Me and mom have loved her for forever but Lord is everything to me and her concert was impeccable. There's just not a miss in any of her songs even if you don't know her music it's just every song has a beat every song is cool and she is like a polarized like the way that she dances just her as a figure like she's awesome. What's her demo. I'd say people my age. So everyone in the crowd was like around girls and adult women. We were in the pit and that was like all the people that are dancing but I think Lord is for everyone like mom loves Lord. I think people who like music like Lord because she's a great lyricist and like with the way that she writes and the things that she says like they really relate to people. So who else do you like these days. Who are you listening to. Well I'm still a big camp fan. I know you'd have your mixed feelings. I'm not against that you and mom just need to get a room with. Yeah we'll get a room and go to camp but I love camps. Mumford and Sons are I mean that concert last summer was probably one of the best I've ever seen. I'm gonna see them again this summer. You'll see them at Fenway. Absolutely like they he is Marcus Mumford is incredible. It just brings me a lot of joy to see artists who are like sticking true to who they are and don't have to do all the theatrics in order to perform and can just like let their voices be the thing. I also like Sabrina Carpenter now though which kind of goes against that. Yeah that was an interesting term for you. I know. Yeah. You didn't like her for a while. I really like her music now but it's also because I think I'm in a more fun part of my life. Yeah. And I love to like go out with my friends and dance and her music is dancing music. So now it's a little more like relatable to me. And also when you're happy I feel like you like happy music and her music is happy music. So. Sabrina Carpenter, good hang or bad hang do you think? I think she's probably great. She's definitely great. She's been media trained. She's been in like on Disney channels since she was 10 years old. At that point you can't not be great. She's great I'm telling you. Shaperone Toughhang? I don't even want to speak on her. She doesn't deserve air here. Speaking of Toughhangs. Oh god. Alex versus Alex happened. That was another thing you were fascinated by. Alex Orill versus Alex Cooper. And you were listening to Call Our Daddy back when it was pretty raunchy. Yeah. And then you stopped at some point. Back when Alex Cooper like when her pod was good. Yeah. I don't. It's safe to say I have my side and it's with Alex Orill. Stay true to Alex Orill. I think this argument is so ridiculous. Well can you give us the backstory because I guarantee 99% of my audience doesn't know what this is. I know it's not exactly. Here's what I know. Alex Cooper. First she has her partner Sophia. Yes. Who she somehow cut out and got the pod herself. Grew the pod, came to Spotify, became a much bigger pod, went to Sirius. Did like some really strange documentary that your grandfather stormed out of the room. He did. We tried to watch. Like literally left. He doesn't storm out of most things either. I've never seen him storm out of a room before. He's like I don't like this person. I'm out of here. But anyway she builds this little I guess little media empire. Alex Orill is her first big hit. But they have some sort of falling out which to me from afar knowing nothing. Well I can fill you in. Yeah tell us. So I'm assuming from what I've read Alex Cooper gave Alex Orill a non-compete contract where she wasn't allowed to obviously non-compete contract means you can't do anything that would be competitive with Alex Cooper's brand. Yeah. And then Alex Orill comes out with Cip Margs which is obviously a hit because it's a low calorie tequila drink and all of Alex Orill's fans are like little girls that just like I mean not little girls girls that would like like to drink that. And Alex Cooper came out with that unwell hydration drink which I mean I've never tried it. I have heard good things so I won't give shit to that but I think that was where the problem kind of started to arise where Alex Cooper was like hey fuck you I told you not to do anything that's going to compete with my stuff. But even before that Alex Orill's podcast was on Alex Cooper's Unwell Network. Yeah. And then something happened and all of a sudden it was out. Well that's what I'm telling you I think that kind of started it. Do you think the drinks thing? I think Alex Cooper is a mean girl is what I've gotten from the internet and I think she's insecure in a sense. And there's someone. So she had somebody that was on her podcast network who was turning to a clips and. That was bigger than her. Yeah. Like and in a more authentic way because Alex Cooper was cool and people liked her because of the stories that she would tell. Yeah. Which without a doubt are super raunchy and intense and people's feelings are at expense of her stories but they're interesting. And Alex Orill is kind of like a more authentic cool relatable older sister type who people just like in a way that's like more connected than people like Alex Cooper. Yeah because you'll watch her she does stuff like she's just doing her makeup getting ready to go somewhere and it's the whole process of hanging out with her as she does that. She feels like a friend and like Alex Cooper couldn't do that because she's not likable to most people because she's known to be mean. Yeah. So I think that was. She obviously is like well to some degree because she is a pretty big audience. I was a part of that audience at some point until all of this people on the internet are calling her a vulture I guess which is I mean I have nothing to say on that but people are saying and part of the problem is that Alex Cooper will come to you and you've had some terrible traumatic life event and will be the first person to kind of pick at your body and be like let's talk about this. I didn't say that that's what the internet saying. Yeah. But that's kind of like a part of the thing. So then anyway Alex Cooper comes out with this video adding Alex Errol being like Alex I've seen you reposting all of this stuff. Like come out and say it. We were all like holy shit but it also felt like a skit. It was like the most the weirdest like video ever just like I mean you think that she has such a big team where they'd be like maybe make this sound a little bit more whatever. Did you feel like at all that in wrestling we would call this a work that they were trying to do this to. They're riling up the audience. Yeah. But then it's weeks and weeks and Alex Errol hasn't responded or addressed anything. She went on a talk show and they asked her about it and she was like I didn't prepare for this. I don't want any negativity whatever. But did not even give it a second of time which leads me to believe that like obviously they had a falling out but people thought it might be a PR stunt like something else might be going on. But clearly something deeper rooted has happened and Alex Cooper is more willing to like blow things up and kind of be immature and then Alex Errol wasn't wanting to feed into it. It's a whole debacle but my stance is I'm on Alex Errol's side and I think Alex Cooper is being a little immature. What are Alex Errol's what are her next five years of play. Well she just launched a skincare brand called Real Actives which people had interesting feedback for because most people thought she should have come out with a bikini brand or something that felt more like authentic to her audience and a skincare brand. Like lingerie like Sydney Sweeney. Yeah she's too cool for that. Sydney Sweeney can stay in her lane that she can do that. Alex Errol like she she there were opportunities she chose skincare which is I mean sure. So that seems like it's going well. I've seen posts about it people seem to like it. I haven't purchased it myself and I don't think I will but good for her. So your lane would have been Corp power yoga. Something you know like something that would have prompted people to purchase it more. I don't know. I think skincare is is a tough whatever. It seems like she's doing well and then she has sit marks so she's she's successful. She seems like she's doing well. All right just so people don't think you're catty. Two people you really like. Did I sound catty in that? Not at all. I apologize. Not at all. You really like Kylie and Kendall. I do. I really do. We need told this man I was surprised because I felt like they're Kardashians. They get they get a tough rep. They do. That's for sure. I wouldn't say it's you know completely undeserved. Yeah sure. At the same time I am like a huge Kylie stan. I'm still unclear on how I feel about Kendall because she has taken my husband so I'm going to need a minute to think on that one. I'm not even ready to talk about that yet. How long have they been together Kendall and Jacob Lordy? They went to Hawaii last week. I almost threw my phone out the window. Whatever. Kylie's great. She just really is. I love her. But what's great about her? Tell her why you tell me why you like her. I think she's a super authentically kind person. And obviously people might be like what are you saying? She's one of the biggest stars and like how could she be an authentically kind person? But in every single interview and every single fan interaction, everything that I've seen of her, she's just like a nice cool, normal, down-to-earth person in light of everything that has happened to her. Like she's been in front of a camera since what she was like eight years old. And the fact that she's like a normal, cool, kind person that's liked by most of the people that she meets, like that is, that says a lot to me because people aren't like that these days. What was the thing you were telling me about when she had a kid and she gained weight and she was like actually talking about it? She went on Jake Shane's podcast last week, which is where this like real love ignited for me because I just, I loved her personality. I was like, I'd be friends with this person in a heartbeat. Like she seems great. Don't have a heart attack over that one. You'd be friends with whoever you want. You tend to overrate all Jake Shane appearances though. But she was talking about how when she had her daughter stormy, she was in the best shape of her life. And then she got pregnant and was eating pints of ice cream every single night and bagels and all sorts of things. And by the time she was giving birth to her daughter, she was 200 pounds. And didn't even like flinch in saying that. And I just think in this day and age, especially with how skeletal people in Hollywood have become and like the GLP one and everyone's just so, so skinny for someone to admit that they're, they were 200 pounds, someone as like much of a force as Kylie Jenner is. And she's constantly talked about for her looks and everything. I mean, I thought that that was pretty a cool thing to do. So I'm big in on her. In the rundown you sent me things you wanted to talk about, you wrote, Kylie and Kendall have single handedly taken down the twin towers, Jacob and Timmy. Well, that is my only problem with them. And they just went to Hawaii. Yeah. Think, well, Kendall and, and Jacob went to Hawaii and then they got caught on a double day. And there's some awesome paparazzi pictures of them in a car like covering their faces. I think Kendall and Jacob are a great couple and will probably have beautiful children if that's the route that it's going for. I do think that they're too big on their own to be able to be together in a way that could ever be normal, but I could be wrong. You know my theory about this. What? I've talked about this forever. I haven't. Two celebrities, when they date two famous people, they have to stay in the same level and the moment one passes the other, they have to break up. Yeah. I don't know. It's got to be like this. I can't start doing this. I don't think that the last, it's a fun moment though. And my prayers go to Olivia Jade because that's a tough one. That was the before Jacob already won? Jacob's ex who was on and off for like seven years. That's the one who was the Lori Loughlin's daughter. Yes, I love her too. She like her. The USC girl. I love her. I watch all of her videos. Why do you like her? She's super cool and normal. Her videos, she doesn't really let her personality shine. It's just kind of like aesthetics getting ready. But she's super cute and has great style. I just, I like watching her stuff and her outfits and things. What's the TikTok, Instagram attention span? Like what's happening in 2026? What's different in the last six years? In terms of people being able to, what do you mean? Just like what, are there any trends? Are people starting to realize maybe I shouldn't be on my phone this much? What's happening? I mean people will say that. But will that ever happen? Like no. I think TikTok is just as big, if not bigger than it was before, especially because there's now the shop, which is incredibly annoying to me, but a good move on their part. You know about the TikTok shop. Do you buy stuff? Yeah. Like the fact that there's consumer things now too, it just drags even more people in. Instagram, at least for me, is just becoming a place to post. It's not really a place that I like frequently scroll on. Instagram reels are great, but they're not as, I don't like get as much into a trance as I do with TikToks. Do you still go on people's posts when they post pictures of themselves and go, Gorge. I really don't anymore. Hearts. No, I don't do Gorge or Hearts. I'll only really. So pretty. I'll only really comment on like my best friend's posts. You phase out of it, you know? I'd like to get off of Snapchat at some point soon, but it's my main form of communication with my boyfriend and other people. So. Snapchat's still kicking in. I don't judge me for that. What? That's people judge for using Snapchat, especially in relationships, but I just like to see the face. I like to see someone else's face. Well, you, your generation has this whole thing where you just take pictures of your, where you are and send them to each other. Yeah, like to be real and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that is how it is. I would rather, I just want to see photos. I think texting all the time is boring. Anyway. What social media device do you think Murph would use? He needs a lobotomy or something. I don't know what's going on with him. He really has chilled out. It's impressive. He's old. He's almost six years old. Don't say that. He's not old. As a, if he was human, he'd be like 40. He's a baby. He still doesn't like other dogs. Yeah. Um, all right. Other stuff. You, you, you deep dove the pit. I did. Which last time you did a hospital drama that you binged, it was Gray's and Addy during COVID and you, you, your personality changed. It put me into a place. Yeah. You were like in a dark spot for like three months. Well, you'll be happy to hear. I did rewatch Gray's Anatomy this last semester. That was my show. The entire show. It's like 18 seasons. No, no, no. We only got through like three, three seasons. I think he hasn't even seen George Dye yet. So hopefully he's not listening to this. Yeah. Okay. Um, he's definitely listening to this. And then we, um, switched over to the pit halfway through watching Gray's Anatomy. And it was like, I can't ever watch Gray's Anatomy again. The pitch is just, so yeah, it's like night and day. The pitch spoils everything. Yeah. I mean, what an amazing show. I hate to say it. My attention span is short, especially when it comes to watching television. My attention span in regular life is fine, but when I'm watching TV, I need to be stimulated by something else, which is something I'm trying to work on. Um, Like even yesterday watching the Wemby game, and I had my phone. No, we watched the Wemby game and it was like one of the most important basketball games of the century. I did that despite you because you kept punching my phone and pissing me off. Well, I was just like, I'm not going to give you this satisfaction. Somebody touches your phone. You react like, He doesn't touch. You're like Lauren and there's something about marrying with the headphones. You just try to rage bait me and I don't like it. So I was trying to make you angry back. Anyway, um, the pit is phenomenal. But my point to that was that I didn't pick up my phone once at any point watching that show. You're locked in. Because it moved so quickly. I wish we had more TV shows that were so fast paced like that. And just like, I don't know. The way that it was filmed was just special. So. Yeah, you never left the hospital. There wasn't really any music. There's never a moment of calm. And like that, I mean, maybe that's a problem that that's the only reason why I wouldn't pick up my phone. But like, I think TV has gotten boring and there's too many pauses and things and this show was just like perfect. That that led to one of mom's best quotes when she said how she wished she'd been smarter because she would have been a great doctor. She would have been a great trauma doctor. She's not afraid of any sort of terrible situation. She doesn't get grossed out by blood. Her one problem is she panics. She's a panicker. She's a panic in the ER though. She's a loud panicker though. She's like, oh God, what happened? And it's like you have this, oh, that cop. Sorry, Murph. Wow, you just jostled Murph out of his neck. Yeah, but the pit is great. Anyone get canceled this year? I mean, everyone gets canceled. But currently it's James Charles, which makes me sad because I actually was telling all my friends that I'm in on him and I was like, in spite of everything he's done, because a lot of people have done terrible things. And I acknowledge that he's a pretty, he's not a great person. Has he been canceled multiple times? He's done some weird shit. He's not a good person. Regardless, I started to like him again because I thought he was funny. Like I just saw a lot of clips of him just, he doesn't care. He's just becoming one of those people where just you'd say whatever he wanted and it was like, that's funny because why would you do that? Whatever. But he has just gotten canceled again. So there's no new person this year? There's no rookie of the year? Come up. Well, I'm a big Stossi Schroeder fan back to the, or no, sorry, Stossi Baby, not Stossi Schroeder. I'm sure she's great too. Stossi Baby, Kylie Jenner's best friend. She's my favorite right now. Kylie Jenner's best friend? Yes. What does she do? That's what I'm saying. She's an influencer, but they've been best friends since Kylie was a little kid and they were on Kardashians together. And then it's kind of like the internet grew up with her. She's great. I love her. So what does she bring to the table? She just does makeup and she goes out all the time. This is brain rot. She goes out all the time and I love watching her get ready and then she films her night out with her friends. And it's just like, this is so fun to watch because there's nothing more fun than that. So. The drama was another one you liked, the movie. Back to Zendaya. That movie was great. I thought it was great personally. Anything else? Any horror movie this year? I'm excited for the back rooms. That will be really fun to watch. And it's also just incredible that a 20 year old is the person who produced it and created it. That makes me want to see it even more. But the idea about the back rooms has been something that has fascinated me for forever. So I'm excited to see it. I've been pointing that out to you a lot about these people when they're in your age range. Yeah. Just weird it is to me that somebody who's 20 is making a movie and when he's 22 is year older than you. Right. It does make you feel bad about yourself. No, not just like. No, it does. Because how are. Sometimes people peek early. You're doing great. Well, I mean Taylor Swift and she was a 17 year old or 16. Probably younger than that. Like came out with the debut album. It's like this. I'm the age. But she's a generational musician. I know, but I'm just saying it's weird getting older because the people around you are only getting older. I'm praying about you all the time. Thanks. I know. You have two jobs this summer. Yeah. It's impressive. It'll be cool. I'm a core power yoga sculpt instructor if anyone's involved. I don't want to go to my classes. Great. What's Taylor Swift's next two years look like? You know, I really like her music. I'm sure she's happy. I can't say that I like her as a person right now. Because she's seen she's aged out of your extended. It's not that at all. I like people who are older. I don't care for that. It's the fact that she kind of will create a posse and have a lot of people around her and then drop some like fies. And I get you're a famous person and you have to do that sometimes because if people cross you, then you can't have them around because I mean, she's in a tough position. At the same time, like I don't love that. That doesn't, I don't know. I can't judge because I'm from afar. But I think it's also her fandom that gives me problems because I don't want to be lumped in with the real like crazies. But I do like her music a lot. So I think she'll she's going to get married. I don't know where probably in Rhode Island. That'll be cool. Pay-per-view. Pay-per-view. Yeah, pay-per-view. $100 to do it like a boxing UFC event. There's no way that she would do that. $75 wedding. There's no way that she would do that. I'm sure she'll be pregnant soon. She'll have ginormous babies with Travis Kelsey. It'll be great. She's some some big kids. She's like 5'11". She's also like a great athlete probably. She's a great dancer. So I'm going to assume. All right. How's it, how's it feel turning 21? Um, you know, I have no nothing's holding me back anymore. It's a nice feeling. I didn't like being Quinn and going up to the to the bartender allegedly. And for them for me to be like, oh, I don't know if like this is going to work out for me. And now my life has just opened up. Am I allowed to tell them the story about you? No. Why not? Which story? No, there are no stories about me on my own podcast. I just edited it out. Okay. You don't get it. We had a really fun night though. We did. The best time ever. I think that was one of my favorite days ever. It was. Except the Celtics lost. Yeah. That that if they had won it would have been the cherry on top. But to see you take about four Fanta shots, which there exactly has the sound. And one was dyed green. Yeah. That was great. And then I enjoyed. I enjoyed you having your transfusions. Which every time I looked away and then I turned back, somehow you had another one in your hand. I don't know how it was happening. I was nervous because the Celtics were in a game seven. I know. I figured they were probably going to lose. You were trying to loosen up. I was nervous drinking. Plus you turned 21 and it was freaking me out. It was a big day. And we had a big night the night before too. Mom really had a home run. Ben even had a home run. And then yeah, it was great. We did some karaoke. We did. Yeah. It was weird because I because 11 years before you're 21st, I remember we went ziplining in Catalina. And that seems like it was like five minutes ago. Yeah. Well, Ben just. But let it go slower for you. It goes faster for me. No, I don't. Yeah, obviously it goes faster for you. But it feels like these last few years have really sped by. Like I feel like Ben just had a senior problem the other day, which we went to. And it like, it made me sad because it's like Ben just entered high school. It feels like I feel like I just had my senior problem. And all of a sudden it's like Ben is going to college. And you have one more soccer year left starting at age four. This is like year, year 17. Yeah. I won't give up on it though. I'm going to do something with soccer. I can't let it go. But I'm excited for your last year. Yeah. But it's it's all I have because the the Celtics are in shambles. The Patriots. Oh my God. Jaylen Brown to cut to to end it off. We have to talk about it. Oh yeah. You went to a lot of Celtic games this year. Well, I'm a devoted fan. You were like a legitimate fan this year. I've I've kind of unfortunately was lucky because Poppedock wasn't able to make most of the games. So I got a lot of tickets. Yeah. I've really become dating somebody who loves basketball. Yeah. But I've really become attached to this team mostly Jason. But if Jaylen. Well, you got Kata was. Kata I've been rooting for Kata for two and a half years. Even before he could he looked like Bambi on ice for like a season. Yeah. He couldn't like he was not together. So do you study the Tatum Jaylen body language when Tatum came back and how they interacted? Well, you kind of started to tell me about it. And it's just not something I ever would have wanted to look for because why would I want them to be rooting against each other? Yeah. It's totally there. Like they totally do not get along innocent. Well, they don't not get along. It's just they don't seem buddy buddy. They seem like co-workers. Yeah. I'm not positive Jaylen was rooting for Tatum to come back and be great. Yeah. It feels like I mean as an athlete and as a soccer player, it's like she he had his like there was a moment and a real opportunity in time where he was the leader and like going to be the savior of the team. Yeah. And he was great. Like he really was he stepped up to the plate and then Tatum comes back and everyone's like, oh thank God like Tatum's back now we have a chance. And I can understand how you might have a chip on your shoulder if that's the reaction of the fandom. It's like with Murph in our house when when Willie comes. Yeah, because we gave Willie get attention. We gave our God Willie to your grandmother after your grandfather died and Willie hangs out with her. But when he comes back to the house Murph acts like Jaylen Brown. Yeah. He's like, I've I've been running this shit and you are gone. The offense was through me motherfucker. You're coming back into my territory. I'll be the one that goes to the backyard first. You will follow me. But it makes me sad. I'm going to try and dribble through all five players on the court and you're not getting the ball. Stand over there. Put your hand up. It makes me sad. And if Jaylen leaves it, I mean, I don't know what what to make of that. I I hope they stay together and maybe they will if there's not a good enough trade. But I do I do really have the feeling he wants his own thing now because they won the title. If they hadn't won the title that would be different, right? Yeah. They already won the title. And now he's like kind of really like to have my own team. I get it. Are there any prospects for who can come in and save us? Because I there's some good trades now that they'll be able to get some good guys. Plus, I don't know how many more years until Deuce is the backup center. Like 10 Deuce is like five feet tall now. He's huge. I always see him in warmups and he's like doing his thing. Yeah. That would make me sad though. Jaylen always has like a little handshake with him before the game. Like that'd be a bummer. That's the thing. It's so rare to stay together for that long. Like even Clay Thompson and Steph Curry eventually broke up because Clay Thompson, they didn't want to keep them to stay together for your entire careers. It's like the rarest thing you could do. Which makes me think it won't happen. Yeah. And also for them to be working in tandem for so long. It's understandable how he might want his own thing. Well, you like tall guys. Wemby's probably too tall for you though. He's too tall. Seven sevens probably too big. I've gotten more mature. I don't need them to be dry and enormous anymore. Like a lourdesize. That'd be great. And he's Australian. Hopefully Hank is. Is Australian but that's a bonus? I love Australia. I've been telling you forever I'd like to go there. But just people from other places or like an accent's a cool thing. It's very similar to Boston. That's why you like it. Yeah. Is it? Yeah. Really fun, rambunctious people with weird accents. People are happy there and they're happy because it's sunny and they're all beautiful all the time. And it's like why would that not be a place where you want to go? Marco Robbie's also from there. Maybe you'll have to go there after college. I'd like to maybe take a visit. All right. So Simmons congratulations on turning 21. You've been coming on my podcast since I was at ESPN when you sang Christmas songs. Oh, I remember that. That was like late 2000s. Yeah. Quite a run for you. It's been a long time. Murph's first appearance. I was about to say does Murph have any final words? I wish I could move the mic towards him. Murph? Murph? How many did you say? Nothing. It's given in the sniff. Can't speak. All right. Thanks, Zoe. Thanks, Dad. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to House. Thanks to the Bundo and CR. Thanks to my daughter. Thanks to Murph Simmons. Thanks to Gahau and Eduardo as well. And don't forget to watch Animal House where we do rewatchables about it next Monday. I'm going to be back on this feed. We're going to be live on Netflix after game two, Nix, Cavs. It's going to be me and Mahoney. And we're going to be talking about that game. And I'll have a whole bunch of other stuff for that podcast as well, including some special survivor content. So stay tuned for that. I will see you on Thursday. Must be 21 plus and president select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas start casino, or 18 plus and president in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming, opt in required bonus issued as non-modrable profit boost tokens, restrictions apply, including any token expiration, max, wager amount, seed terms at sportsbook.founder.com. Game and problem called 1-800-GAMBO or 1-800-MY-reset. Call 888-797-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. 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