Summary
This coda episode explores stories cut from the two-part Monks series, including the Covered Wagon Musicians—active-duty GIs who created anti-war protest music in 1972 near Mountain Home Air Force Base in Idaho. The episode also details what happened to each Monk member from 1967 through their 2007 reunion shows, including their struggles reintegrating into American life, personal hardships, and eventual recognition decades later.
Insights
- The GI resistance movement represented organized dissent within the U.S. military itself, with active-duty soldiers using music, coffee houses, and conscientious objector status to protest the Vietnam War—a form of internal institutional resistance rarely discussed in mainstream history.
- Mark Lane, the controversial figure behind JFK conspiracy theories and later implicated in Jonestown, was instrumental in establishing GI coffee houses and organizing the Covered Wagon Musicians, demonstrating how a single polarizing figure can simultaneously contribute to both cultural resistance and future tragedies.
- The Monks' delayed American recognition (30 years after disbanding) reflects how countercultural and experimental music from the 1960s was systematically overlooked until rediscovered by underground music collectors and journalists in the 1990s.
- Post-war repatriation trauma affected all five Monks differently—some thrived (Gary became a mayor), others struggled for decades (Dave Day homelessness), illustrating the varied psychological impacts of extended military service abroad.
- The Covered Wagon's 'Napalm Sticks to Kids' represents a rare example of combat veterans collaboratively documenting war atrocities through music, with each stanza written by someone who witnessed the specific horror described.
Trends
Institutional resistance within hierarchical organizations (military) as a precursor to broader social movementsDelayed cultural recognition and canonization of experimental 1960s music through underground collector networks and fanzinesGI coffee houses as early models of civilian-military organizing and conscientious objector support infrastructureCombat veteran testimony embedded in protest music as historical documentation of war crimesBoomer-era festival culture and anti-war organizing as foundational to modern protest infrastructureRepatriation and reintegration challenges for long-term military expatriates returning to American civilian lifeVinyl reissue labels (Infinite Zero, Light and the Attic) as gatekeepers for rediscovering obscure historical musicStochastic terrorism and community-organized violence against anti-war organizing spaces in conservative military towns
Topics
Vietnam War protest music and GI resistance movementsCovered Wagon Musicians and anti-war organizing at military basesThe Monks' post-1967 diaspora and reintegration into American lifeConscientious objector status and military draft resistanceGI coffee houses as organizing infrastructureCombat veteran testimony in protest musicMark Lane's role in JFK conspiracy theories and GI organizingNapalm Sticks to Kids as collaborative war atrocity documentationDelayed cultural recognition of 1960s experimental musicMonks reunion shows 1997-2007Electric banjo as experimental instrument in rock musicStochastic terrorism against anti-war organizing spacesRepatriation trauma and military expatriate reintegrationUnderground music fanzines (Ugly Things) and music journalismVinyl reissue culture and music archival
Companies
Folkways Recordings
Released the Covered Wagon Musicians' 1972 LP 'We Say No to Your War,' the first album by active-duty GIs
Capital Records
Recorded Eddie Shaw's jazz-rock group Copperhead in the mid-1970s
Infinite Zero Records
Released Black Monk Time in America in 1997, thanks to Rick Rubin and Henry Rollins' involvement
Light and the Attic
Released vinyl reissue of Monks' music with liner notes featuring artist testimonials
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
Memorialized Dave Day in 2008 In Memorium section following his death
People
Marcus Parks
Co-host of the episode providing narrative and analysis of Monks history and Covered Wagon Musicians
Carolina Adalgo
Co-host providing detailed research on Monks' post-1967 lives and reunion shows
Eddie Shaw
Bassist of The Monks; wrote Black Monk Time autobiography; still autographs books for fans
Gary Berger
Frontman of The Monks; later became mayor of Turtle River, Minnesota; died 2014 of pancreatic cancer
Roger Johnston
Drummer of The Monks; drifter who moved between Texas, San Francisco, Minnesota; died 2004 of lung cancer
Dave Day
Banjo player; experienced homelessness in Germany post-1967; died 2008 of heart attack
Larry Clark
Organist; worked in computer programming after band breakup; quit reunion shows in 2004
Mark Lane
JFK conspiracy author (Rush to Judgment); organized Covered Wagon GI coffee house; later implicated in Jonestown
Jimmy Schaefer
Airman First Class; composed music for Covered Wagon; obtained conscientious objector status; helped 300 GIs
Country Joe McDonald
Wrote 'I-Feel-Like-I'm-Fixin'-to-Die Rag'; performed at Woodstock; visited Mountain Home GI coffee house
Donald Sutherland
Anti-war figure who visited Mountain Home GI coffee house and recited Shakespeare to soldiers
General William Westmoreland
Former Vietnam War commander; speech protested by Covered Wagon Musicians; associated with My Lai Massacre
Rick Rubin
Helped release Black Monk Time in America in 1997, bringing Monks to wider American audience
Henry Rollins
Involved in releasing Black Monk Time in America in 1997
Chris Novoselic
Called Monks music 'monastic madness' in liner notes; praised their serious opinions and romance
Jello Biafra
Praised Monks' electric banjo as 'sonic meat cleaver'; called for Black Monk Time movie adaptation
Keith Patterson
Conducted in-depth interviews with Eddie Shaw and Gary Berger in 1992 for Ugly Things magazine
Mike Statz
Conducted in-depth interviews with Monks members in 1992 for Ugly Things magazine
Mark E. Smith
Performed with Monks at 2006 Zurich show; known for heavy drinking
Quotes
"These guys know that there's no reason to go out and do this. And they know they're just going to go out and get killed."
Marcus Parks•Early discussion of GI resistance
"I didn't think that the monks music was of tomorrow until now. And now they proved me wrong."
Roger Johnston•Post-reunion reflection
"You are the only family I've ever really had."
Roger Johnston•To Gary and Eddie in Minnesota
"My jaw dropped. I took notes. The electric banjo is such a powerful sonic meat cleaver."
Jello Biafra•Artist testimonial
"There are very few records I go back to constantly. Cairns Monster Movie and the Monks Black Monk Time."
Gary Smith (The Fall)•Artist testimonial
Full Transcript
Thats how you got the rights for rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights rights Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Coda to the Monks series. My name is Marcus Parks. Hi, I'm Carolina Adalgo. And you're listening to No Dogs in Space. So we just finished our two-part series on the Monks. Thank you so much, everybody, for your kind words about it. We're so excited to bring this band to people who have never heard it before. And we're actually very happy that we met the expectations of the Monks super fans out there. Absolutely. We're, thank you for your late night texts, all of you guys. We really appreciate that. Very much so. But what this episode is going to be, and this is something that we hope we can do with a lot of our series, is to have a bit of a Coda episode where we can talk about the stories that we sort of discovered along the way that didn't really fit into the actual series, stories that we had to cut for time, and of course, what happened after. Yeah, and maybe a little behind the scenes and stuff like that. We really put a lot of work in this. This is not a filler episode. No. If you want to know this, we have ten pages of notes in front of us. So we're going to, you're going to learn some shit. I wrote another script. We weren't supposed to, and then I just had to. We were going to just chat. But no, now this is a real episode. So I want everyone to open up their ears, okay, for Viet fucking Nam. Because that's what we're going to get into. Absolutely. Because that's the thing, is that, you know, the Monks were a bit of a protest band. Well, not a silly protest band, but they wrote protest music. Vietnam protest music. And they wrote it near the beginning of the war, 1965, 1966. You know, that's back when people thought, okay, the war is immoral, but America itself had not been rent asunder. The Monks were also GIs, yes, but they were inactive GIs. And their protest music, you know, like Monk Time, it's almost happy. It's gleeful. It's quizzical. Whose army? What army? I don't know. I don't know what army. The band we're going to talk about today, though, the covered wagon musicians, they came in 1972, five years later. This was after shit got really bad. This is after the Tet Offensive, when many Americans realized the war was unwinnable. This is after the Me Lai Massacre, when American soldiers slaughtered hundreds of innocent villagers in a matter of hours for no fucking reason. This is after Kent State, after RFK, after MLK, and all of the other horrible things that happened in both Vietnam and America between 1967 and 1972. And that's when they were like, that's it, that's it, I've done it, we're just going to start a loose collective of musicians. That'll fix things. And it well did it. Kind of. We'll find out. In other words, these guys, the covered wagon musicians, they were a lot fucking angrier than the Monks, and they were filled with much more despair. They were not mock-showing like the Monks. They were the real deal. They were like living it, not just singing it, but living it. They were living it. And it's folk music. It's still a bunch of guys with guitar singing songs about how the war is immoral. But the difference is that these dudes were a part of the GI movement. The covered wagon musicians were active GIs. And we have to also remember, they are the first festival people. The Boomers brought us festivals. They did. Thank you. Thank you, Boomers. Thank you at the very least for festivals. And mini vans and the crystal thing that's supposed to be deodorant. Thank you. But the thing is the GI movement, this was the resistance movement against the Vietnam War within the U.S. military that involved active duty soldiers. And when you hear these guys sing, when you hear the covered wagon musicians sing, you can hear every emotion experienced by a soldier who did not want to die for no reason at all. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. How incredible is that? That is really cool. It doesn't sound anything like a gap commercial. But no, honestly, it's really cool. I like that. It's an army of, it's an army, an actual army of people singing about this. Well, technically they're Air Force guys. Okay, that's... What the hell? Now the GI movement could involve soldiers from the army, the Marines, it can involve sailors from the Navy or service members from the Air Force. That's right, technically. But at its most violent, the GI movement could involve murder. It could involve active duty soldiers in Vietnam murdering their superior officers rather than going out on another mission to another vill to kill more Vietnam civilians for no fucking reason and end the process, probably lose lives and limbs. That's what you were telling me earlier about like this guy, like an NCO would be like, come on guys, we got to go to the bush and kill like 12 kids. And they're like, you know what? Why don't we take a walk? Yeah, these guys know that there's no reason to go out and do this. And they know they're just going to go out and get killed. And in past wars, say like World War II, a soldier might be willing to do that if he believed in the cause, as a lot of World War II soldiers did. There were a lot of soldiers who went on missions in World War II who knew they weren't going to come back from them. But in Vietnam, especially in the late 60s and early 70s, the ground forces were mostly made up of unwilling draftees. Remember the draft was still very strong at this time. The draft was at its height in the late 60s and like Nixon started bringing it down a little bit when he came into office. But in the late 60s, it was bad. These guys did not want to be there. They did not believe in anything. They didn't even know why they were there half the time. They couldn't explain it to you. The only mission these guys had was getting themselves and their friends back home alive. Therefore, if you had to throw a hand grenade into a sergeant's tent to do so, you would do it. That's just how it was. I remember us talking about the Stooges series and where Iggy Pop had to go and say he was gay like a hundred times to get out of the service. But I do believe he might have also been like, let's all vote. Who's going to go and kill that sergeant? And he would get the shortest straw. Or actually it would be Jim. Let's have it. Yeah, sure guys. Jim, Monsterberg. I'll throw in the fucking grenade. Who gives a shit? But on the more peaceful side of the GI movement were places called GI coffee houses that existed just outside of military bases on American soil. Here civilians in the anti-war movement could meet up with active duty soldiers to cooperate in protests or to get those active duty soldiers out of the armed forces by helping them achieve conscientious objector status. The covered wagon musicians were a part of just such a group born from a GI coffee house located just outside of Mountain Home Air Force Base in Idaho. That's good. A safe haven. Absolutely. A safe haven for these people. Mountain Home itself was an obscure desert town with a population under 7,000. And without the nearby Air Force Base located 10 miles away, Mountain Home would have next to nothing economically. They depended on the base completely. Therefore, Mountain Home the town was quite protective of Mountain Home the Air Force Base. So much so that in November of 1971, a bunch of dudes who drank at the nearby bar burned down the covered wagon GI coffee house that was the base of the local GI resistance. Okay. Isn't that still messing up their town? Oh wait, we forgot about that part, right? Yeah, we forgot about that. We put a shit on our own coffee house in our own town. Yeah, shit on our own doorstep. Yeah, they would hang out at the bar down the street and it was assumed or at least suspected that the owner of the bar formed the mob that went and set fire to the coffee house and none of the people were arrested. The cops were like, yeah, what are you going to do? Now the covered wagon coffee house had been built in an old theater. They even had this beautiful mural of Garnica painted on the walls. Oh, yes. Oh, you're right. That's when the, that's Picasso, right? Picasso, yeah. And they had been named after an Air Force security code that was used when a member came upon suspected sabotage. You'd say covered wagon, covered wagon. And that was the signal for others to come help. It was very symbolic. The liner notes to the covered wagon musicians LP put out in 1972 by Folkways Recordings. They were admittedly biased. You read those liner notes. I did. I'm sorry. I'm a capitalist pig because I wasn't part of it. No, they actually call you pigs. So it's a little alienating, which is not the right thing to do. But hey, you know what? They're angry. They're very, very angry. And here's why. Because allegedly the local newspapers would publish letters encouraging violence against the covered wagon. The doors and windows to the coffee house prior to its burning down were smashed in on 20 different occasions. There's even stochastic terrorism going on within the community. A local minister prayed during the Sunday service for God to destroy the covered wagon coffee house. A member of the city council approved the attacks. He said the attackers were just quote unquote, doing their thing. It's incredible. But it's important to know that these GIs that were a part of the covered wagon coffee house and their anti-war civilian supporters, these were not good time hippies just looking to get laid and get high. These were serious people, almost overly so. On one New Year's Eve, they huddled in front of a post office around a small charcoal fire, purposefully making themselves miserable to remind themselves that people were still dying in Southeast Asia while everyone else in America were still having a good time. Hey, that was part of the thing. That was the whole setting yourself on fire. People were so angry that they were willing to do this. They were willing to do this for a point, for us to talk about it like 50 years later. I mean, in other words, these guys were the real deal. But consequently, these serious people created serious music. And in 1972, the dudes in the covered wagon who could play and sing recorded and released We Say No to Your War, which was the first LP comprised of songs written and performed by active duty men and women, songs that were based on their actual experiences. And this is at the point when there were a lot of bad experiences in Vietnam. But when it came to songs about the protest movement itself, a song was written about nine covered wagon members who were arrested for disturbing the peace. They were protesting a speech given at the Boise Chamber of Commerce by General William Westmoreland, who was then former commander of the entire Vietnam War. Westmoreland was one of the villains of the Vietnam War. This is like Soaron walking into your backyard. And even though he was taken off the job of commanding the so-called police action in the late 60s, it was under his command that atrocities such as the Milai Massacre took place, as they say, as above so below, as they say. I've heard that so many times in those documentaries that you make us watch before we go to bed. I thought my boys were going to come home documentary with the old lady. Well, those were world war II documentaries. I thought my boys were going to come home for supper. We didn't know when our boys was going to come home. That's seriously the tagline to every documentary. That poor lady is so busy. But in honor of these nine protesters who were arrested, the covered wagon musicians wrote this song called The Roadway Nine. They were real big on numbers back in the Vietnam War. What do we want? Peace! When do we want it? Now! What do we want? Peace! When do we want it? Now! Peace! Now! Peace! Now! Peace! Now! Peace! Now! Peace! Now! Peace! Now! Peace! Now! Peace! Now! When do we want it? tomorrow what do we want? peace starts sorrow when do we want it? now not tomorrow voice is the biggest voice is best the place to die the place to rest 300 rooms of anglard hall convention center but not for all so what do we want? peace starts sorrow when do we want it? now not tomorrow what do we want? peace starts sorrow when do we want it? now not tomorrow one day in our... but when it comes to songwriting credits the two songs that we've played have a surprising author when it comes to the lyrics and we'll get to that guy just in a second but first let's talk about the guy who orchestrated those songs, the guy who composed them the music itself was mostly composed and played by an active-duty airman first class named jimmy schaefer who had attended his first covered wagon meeting while tripping on assets we were just talking about last night we gotta do that again sometime we've just been doing mushrooms, mushrooms, mushrooms since moving to california but now it's time to step in let's kick it up a notch you wanna start a covered wagon? revival? but the thing is about jimmy schaefer is that he actually soon became the biggest advocates for sobriety in the covered wagon he said that if they wanted to get anything done they had to be fucking sober does that... oh wait, i'm sorry, oh yeah, you in the back does that mean acid? that means especially acid! they'd learned the lessons, this is 1972, they'd already, the summer of love had come and gone and ain't shit been done now soon after joining covered wagon, schaefer applied for conscientious objector status while still an active officer and he got approved it was very rare at this time for this to happen he received an honorable discharge and moved to the town of mountain home where he further counseled other active duty servicemen on how they could leave what they felt was an unjust war just the same way that schaefer did eventually covered wagon obtained conscientious objector status for 300 men what? this is incredible but when it came to who organized the covered wagon in the first place and the man who actually wrote the lyrics so we say no to your war and the roadway nine we've got a highly controversial and extraordinarily surprising figure who's actually come up on last podcast on the left quite a bit oh you don't say i'm very excited for this his name was mark lane and i'll bet anyone who studied either the assassination of jfk or the tragedy at jones town your ears just perked up just a little bit i think i read one of his books once you did and it's crazy remember i went crazy i had to lay down and i couldn't help you that jfk see this afterwards that's when i quit helping you on last podcast mark lane ruined it for me i remember mark lane briefly represented lee harvey oswald's mother during the war and commission and he thereafter wrote rush to judgment this was the book that kicked off the kennedy conspiracy cottage industry arguably it's the book that kicked off and created modern conspiracy culture but after spending a few years in sconston jfk hubbub lane moved on to the anti-war movement and after giving a speech in boise idaho active armed forces members from mountain home air force base came to watch and according to lane's biography they approached him afterward and asked him to help set up one of those g i coffee shops in the town outside their base put simply mark lane author of rush to judgment was the person who brought the g i resistance to mountain home idaho boomers and boomers as such as the movement in mountain home gained steam they started attracting other anti-war figures including musicians and actors at one point donald southerland showed up he was a big anti-war guy the voice of the orange juice commercial i prefer to think of him as herbert hurlbutt the of the dirty dozen no the man who ran the springfield historical society in the jebediah springfield the simpsons got it you had arthritis at one point like lane said that he drove to the local swimming hole because he heard a bunch of g i's were hanging out there and he found donald southerland in a bathing suit standing on a raft reciting shakespeare to the g i's but as far as musicians thank you for your service but as far as musicians went mountain home also attracted the man who wrote perhaps the most famous anti-war song of the late 60s certainly one of the best that man was country joe donald yes yes yes i love this i'm sorry keep going yep he wrote the i feel like i'm fixing to die rag and his band country joe and the fish famously performed it at woodstock whoo well come on all of you big strong men of both sides to help again got himself in a terrible jam way down yonder in vietnam put down your books and pick up a gun we're gonna have a whole lot of fun and it's one two three what are we fighting for don't ask me i don't give a damn the next stop is vietnam and it's five six seven open up the pearly gates well there ain't no time to wonder why whoo we're all gonna die now come on wall street don't be stole that song gives me chills it's so good that was the song that was the song that makes the protest movement cool yeah you know a little edgy but back to mark lane he was the the farthest thing from cool and edgy uh i don't know i'd say mark lane is kind of the definition of edgy he was heavily involved in the jonestown massacre oh right that that little thing that happened over the weekend right next to the uh the star wars holiday special two american disasters what a tragedy yeah i mean it's arguable that without mark lane the jonestown massacre wouldn't have happened you know what i mean when it's like when you're put on this earth to make the world a better place and then you end up being mark lane yeah and for that full story go over and listen to the jonestown series we did on last podcast on the left it's fantastic well that's the thing you also helped i helped in that an incredible amount like that was like caroline is like that was one of your greatest research achievements was helping us out on that oh thank you but yeah go listen that series it's one of the things i'm most proud of that have ever done in my entire fucking life but it's a crazy boomer microcosm that while mark lane was partly responsible for the murder of nearly a thousand people due to his own greed and bankrupt morals details he also wrote those beautiful touching songs that you heard earlier but when it comes to the songs mark lane didn't write perhaps the covered wagon musicians most disturbing song was a sort of poem written by combat veterans who took turns writing stanzas about the most fucked up shit they saw in vietnam napalm sticks to kids yes remains one of the most harrowing tunes to come out of the vietnam war a tune is it's not a tune it's a dirge it's it's important we shoot the sick the young the lane we do our best to kill in maine because the kills all count the same napalm sticks to kids flying low across the trees pilots doing what they please dropping frags on refugees napalm sticks to kids flying low and looking mean see that family by the stream drop some nap and hear them scream when they palm sticks to kids sounds very lou reed very platinum blonde lou reed yeah i mean it's the reason why it's because you know lou reed of course wrote a lot of his stuff from the perspective of an english major from the perspective of a writer and that was the best they could do to write music to go along with that poem because that's what it was it was a round-robin poem and every single one of those things that you heard was something that one of the writers saw in vietnam it's something that actually happens so if you go through like you can read it i've seen it on wikipedia it is horrifying but it's important and if you want to know an even more horrifying little detail to that uh that became that song that poem became eventually and i don't know what i've been told cadence at um the air force training facilities like i don't know what i've been told you know those ones that i'm talking about what makes what makes the grass grow i see hot shots yes yeah it became one of those and eventually the air force stepped in and had to say like you guys can't do that anymore now that song was written in 1972 but the war dragged on until 1975 jesus yes and the war's legacy remains nothing more than the folly and horror that was so poignantly put on display by the covered wagon musicians thank you thank you go by that a little judgy a little alienating but thank you the liner notes were just don't read the liner yes the the songs themselves are are incredible like you know there's one song about being a helicopter pilot uh it just goes on and on and it's worth listening to it's all on youtube it's very besides an apop sticks to kids this is one of those under the radar albums and i'd recommend listening to it beginning to end there's really only a couple of cringy moments yeah so yeah that's it that's the covered wagon musicians i hope you enjoy them fantastic well now do you want to know what happened to the monks yeah of course i want to know what happened to the monks okay so i know what happened to the monks but i know the audience wants to know what happened to the monks absolutely and i think maybe there's a detail or two at least i left out um because that's another thing uh audience members so you guys know i don't know what you call them listeners listeners yes listeners uh we you've been in podcast this long and podcasting this long you don't know what that's i don't know actually i don't know what are you called what are you what are you preferred we call so um a lot of times we don't know what the other we know each other segments but we don't know what the other person's gonna say and you particularly never know what i'm gonna say i don't which is a fun part okay so i not my part my this is carolina segment which is where where did the monks leave off from 1967 to present day yeah so buckle up are you ready okay so remember from last week the monks ended in 1967 when roger left germany for texas and sent gary a postcard saying wish you were her no actually he said i'm gone i'm out i'm sorry get someone else to replace me you said wish you were her yes that's a simpson's reference oh oh gotcha okay okay i'm sorry i'm sorry listeners if you're millennials then you got that reference march gots she got a postcard from homer and it's a really pretty sexy bikini girl and it says wish you were her i thought you were a resident i got these presses you gotta bother just won't quit five dollars so the monks right they ended in 1967 roger yes he did leave you know germany and he did send a postcard saying like i'm done i'm sorry out of here and but the thing is there was no time to get a replacement so eddie gary david larry they all got the news the day before they were to me at the airport to go to asia remember they were gonna go on an asian tour they were gonna hit hong kong maybe singapore saigon yeah which is the hard part vietnam in the middle of the fighting and all right before the 10 offensive five five months before the 10 offensive i mean this is a people at this point people did not yet know how bad vietnam really was and how bad it was about to get that's why the monks they got like their work permits and their flights are tenor a year all set up but everything was taken care of uh but when roger bowed out getting a replacement last minute just wasn't gonna work so all five monks knew it was over right and some of them maybe all of them were kind of relieved they were yes and their wives as well and i also have a bit of a theory about that because like roger johnston as much as i love his drumming as much as i love as much as central as it is to the monk sound it ain't hard i mean it's that's i can play i could learn an entire monk's album in an afternoon how dare you but like but they had the work permits like they couldn't like switch someone the work permits now that's the problem last minute now i get what you mean yeah and also they were gonna get protection from the us army yeah they were just gonna go and perform just some guys in saigon exactly so the monks basest eddy shaw he stayed in germany and lived in frankfurt with his wife where he worked at a wine bar that that was his life he want he's like i'm just gonna be an old german man i'm gonna collect stamps and i'm gonna take a swig out of every fancy bottle of wine every time someone orders it that is true story hey not a bad life but six months later eddy's mother-in-law was like why don't you just go back to america you know where you came from why don't you take my daughter and just go because maybe things will be better for you there so she let him the money to buy tickets to get on a steamer to new orleans to america and they actually brought larry with them because he was like yes let's all go back home to america so they all went on their journey they landed in new orleans and there eddy and his wife bid larry a good farewell bon voyage because they went to carcin city where eddy grew up larry went back home to chicago to live with his parents he got a computer programming job and completely walked away from music for a very long time yeah so other than seeing eddy once in the 70s larry kind of disappeared until gary found him in like 1997 1998 which is important and i'll tell you why in a little bit okay but gary berger remember he was the the monks frontman uh from episode two remember that guy he was uh remember the cute monk as you said yes i call him the cute monk he was also the activist monk he was the most uh protesty of all the monks yeah uh he was in sweden when he got the postcard from roger so he stayed there an extra four months with his swedish wife because why not it made sense but eventually they both moved to america and settled in minnesota by the next year they all go back to these like small to mid-sized towns but that's where gary is from yeah remember so the next year 1969 was uh that was when gary called up eddy and said hey why don't you move here to minnesota and go to school here we can all go to like we can all get a college degree because we have the gi bill which means they will pay their college that's one great thing about being in the army yeah right so eddy shaw and his wife remember angelica from the book uh she came from she escaped east germany went to west germany got married eddy shaw and now is suddenly moving upstairs in a rented apartment above gary and his wife in minnesota and she's fucking miserable they didn't like it she she was miserable before they even got off of the steamership okay no one was happy but in the meantime complaining about what the money looks like she's like in god we trust why are you having god we trust on the fucking coins cut this out right you don't know what she's been through but you have a point anyway so eddy and gary they they went to college for broadcasting yeah which makes perfect sense now going back to the drummer roger that we were talking about remember he was already in america he sent a postcard and everything so he was in america in 1967 uh in texas with his german wife edda and that didn't work out either because she did not like okay she's strongly dislike living in rural texas she's living that did he go back to weatherford like where he was from i imagine so yeah yeah weatherford's a larger town now because you know the dallas metroplex is encroached on it but back then i couldn't i mean growing up basically kind of town i grew up in she ain't gonna like it this is what happens when you mention anything about texas to a texan it's like what town what exit it's like god damn it let me get through the start one of the favorite i mean yeah we're all yeah we're all fucking descended from british people you talk to a british person they're gonna jaw you're all about fucking geography all day long british geography they love it texans love geography so roger and edda since they didn't have a good run in texas they moved to san francisco where roger had some family there i think he had a brother but it didn't get much better so roger and his wife broke up i think he left her in san francisco uh she must be there now who knows we're dead okay so roger he moved up north to minnesota to get closer to gary and eddie actually roger even said you're the only family i've ever really had yeah to which gary and eddie is like that is quite a burden but we're gonna hold on to that because you are our brother you are a monk right and for a while the three of them gary eddie and roger would play together on the weekends in a small bar in loretto outside of minneapolis they're biggest followers the local bikers that's incredible isn't that great well i mean that's the thing that we uh not necessarily glossed over but didn't get into uh a whole lot in the series like when you read eddie shaw's book he really talks about like the brotherhood of being a monk like he talks about the a monk being a monk is almost like a sacred thing uh and these guys really did look they really did like each other they really did they formed an incredible connection or i i think it was yeah it's kind of like the whole thing you don't have to be friends but you have to be brothers yeah i think they had that a lot yeah they had a lot of respect for each other and roger's history it's very okay it's it's very on brand with roger right we talked about in episode one he's a drifter right he's he's kind of a sorely he was a good-looking one he would always pull the most girls but he's a drifter and he's and he never stopped being a drifter once a drifter always a drifter and while living in minneapolis roger was working as a janitor in a church and then i think he moved to a synagogue which he said he liked better but then one day roger disappeared for a few weeks and then just came back saying he was arrested by the d a on a trumped-up drug charge so since he was former military they made him do some undercover surveillance in order to avoid jail in some suicide squad pink they gave him a canoe a sleeping bag binoculars and a tent i swear to god this is like one of those hour-long shows that they put on me tv he's like i ended up in the boundary waters area near the canadian border for about three weeks and i'm back now can we play and gary and larry just sitting there like going huh wow and then weird and then roger's story roger's front tooth fell out on the dining room table i'm swear i swear to god this is all true is and then he just kind of got up and like left and left the tooth there and eddie was like that was too much even for my son roger eventually moved back to texas and wasn't seen for years until 1997 which is important which we'll get to in a little bit so in the meantime when we're talking about mid 1970s eddie was the leader of a seven-piece jazz rock group called copperhead and they even recorded stuff for capital records who named them minnesota many just minnesota yeah instead of the the t like soda s o d a minnesota capital records thought that was a good idea it's fucking stupid i like copperhead better yes apparently it went okay but just like the monks it just didn't go anywhere yeah and i think this might have been around the time that gary berger he moved from minneapolis to further up north to his hometown of bameji minnesota bameji i thought i practiced it i i even looked it up in everything it's it's part of the uh algonquin uh language family i was i was it means a lake with crossing waters i i'm trying my best okay it's from the ojibway language i understand your brain works in romance languages so you see an eye is bameji bameji did i did no bameji i'm trying to make up for reading a wikipedia article by not really completely pronouncing the name right anyway so i'm sure the people of bameji appreciate it and then gary berger later became the mayor of turtle river oh that's great which is up north from that town that we talked about in minnesota small town politics yes switch to plusnets award-winning for fiber from just 22 99 a month our sweet deal gets you fast and reliable broadband with no activation fee with speeds up to 900 megabits feels like a sugar rush full fiber that's full of value that's a plus offer ends 6th of may 24 months 26 99 from the 31st of march 20 27 30 99 from the 31st of march 20 28 new customers only 62 u k availability terms apply after fae fruits yogurt i'm never going back so fruity so thick so gorgeous from the packets called fae fruits yogurt it's a smooth and fruity snack give me give me that fire passion fruit or strawberry flavor my way and taste the coconut give me that fire go down the shops for this fruity snack off the fae fruits yogurt there's no going back and now for daviday's story who this is this is a hell of a tale david the monks banjo player so after the band broke up in 1967 daviday stayed in germany for another eight years he married his girlfriend dora and together they ran a gi bar in schweinfurt a small town german town around uh it was about 100 miles from frankfort 160 kilometers schweinfurt i think that means pig sausage well that's where he had his gi bar and he you know what daviday ran a tight ship at that bar like he did great that is until his wife dora and her mother kicked dav out of their home uh he was left with nothing his passport money anything that was all with dora and for some reason this is very unclear dav could not get anything back he said he waited outside their home for days until giving up so dav would sleep in the park or the train station finally some gi's who took pity on him gave it gave him a tent he was able to use that to live in the woods outside of schweinfurt dav would usually take his guitar and busk for change or sometimes he would just ask for beer or or bread or just anything he'd go days without eating sometimes and he was always getting robbed picked on by others of course he soon learned that he was a subject of a cautionary tale of what can go wrong when when an american gi stays in germany yeah that's pretty sad and that that is until dav's brother eventually got in touch with him and sent him money to buy a plane ticket home to rent in washington where dav is from dav who only spoke german at that time he forgot english he forgot english completely he had to relearn english when he got back and actually when he got back to the airport where his his brother was receiving him dav cried and kissed his brother's feet when he landed he and then eventually he took a job at a car rental company and spent the next few years just surviving and just getting back on his feet which he did you know he wrote new original songs and and as soon as he made enough money he paid a studio to record a few songs and release an EP yeah and then also later in the 90s also released an EP with gary burger and eddie helping him out like doing like some background vocals and stuff so you know he and of course he did an Elvis cover gi blues always the Elvis fan always wanting to entertain always wanting to make people happy yeah and dav day look he is i mean that is a it's a harrowing story there are parts of his life that he refuses to talk about he'll just say it was bad and that's all you need to know i mean at one point he was using the old this is like one of those crazy like you can't write this shit moments where he actually used the old banner that from the tour case from the tour case the old banner that they use from the tour case as a shelter uh you know you put that in a movie you'd say it's a bit on the nose but it happened but it fucking happened but he's not but the thing is about dav day is he's always the like i said the trans the movie transatlantic feedback the documentary about the monks they frame it to make dav out to be a very sad person a very sad man but i think that's very reductive i don't i don't i agree it does not show the full character of dav day who was a very kind man absolutely from what it seems like and he liked his jack and coke and you know with his wifi read and just sitting there he just wanted to make people happy he was the kind of monk who would go dressed as a monk to the record shop and wait for someone to see his record and be like and he'd just appear out of nowhere hey that's me you know that's a little weird that's a bit much but so let him let him he wants to make people happy i totally relate to this so badly yeah he's my favorite monk yeah he's great i'm a larry clark guy you're a dav day gal so the guys the monks they moved on in the best way they could at first they would talk about the monks and how they were a popular band in one time in germany but a lot of their family and friends just weren't into it like it was either oh that's nice honey or this is sick and weird or uh yeah just turn that crap off yeah never play that again they all said that especially uh eddie and gary they said they had a really hard time fitting in with their old friends from the neighborhood because everybody had changed everything had changed america was very different from when they left in 1961 they're like now there's girls smoking yeah you know like what is this this is crazy they had a real life culture shock like coming back to america so many of the monks spent years not bothering to tell anyone about their whole past some people like decades later were like what you were in a band yeah it's crazy which is why i think it was a bit of a surprise uh to even the monks themselves when they heard that people were starting to talk about them or maybe they never stopped it first started with like obscure album collectors kind of being like what is this and then a girl band das furlines told the story that story in people magazine that you talked about in intro in episode one yeah das furlines are incredible it was headed by a woman her name was windy i can't remember her last name but she was also in a band called pulsalama that sang the song the devil lives in my husband's body that's incredible we had like like it's so like she's such this central character in the new york scene in the 80s that if you were there she was a full-on celebrity but i do want to do something on her later because a few months before she died she wrote down her entire life story on a blog somewhere and then died we should unfortunately died from breast cancer in 1997 i'd love it's just this incredible chronicle of a place in time in new york city but yeah das furlines they did that was actually i heard that before i heard the monks i heard their cover of v do we do um oh man we should play it how What are you gonna say? Won't you come with me today? Hey. What are you gonna say? Tell them there's nothing you can say. Hey. What are you gonna say? Yeah, yeah, I'll do it any other way though. Ah. That was kickass. Wow, wow, holy shit, wow. Yeah, and I'm sorry to say, like, this episode, this show, that's the only place you're going to hear that fucking song because that shit is impossible to find. Did we play it? We should have played it in its entirety then. Uh, well, we cut it off ten seconds before it ended. Okay, that's good enough. But really, like, I found it on an obscure music blog many, many years, like in like 2010 or something like that. Maybe even earlier than that. It's an incredible, incredible version and like the Dust for Aligns had four albums. Impossible to note, they're not on discogs, they're not on YouTube, they're nowhere. There was a re-release done of The Devil Lives in My Husband's Body like a year or two ago, maybe two years ago. But if anybody, if anybody has access to this Dust for Aligns stuff, email us at nodugsinspace at gmail.com because the only two songs I've ever heard is their cover of Vee-Doo We Do and a song called Honkin' Holler. That's also fucking incredible. Alright, Onward with the Monks. Onward with the Monks. Right, so remember, the Monks didn't even bother to tell anybody about the thing that they did for a few years in Germany, which sounds very suspect, but it's actually good, okay? It's good. And so people started talking and eventually these two music journalists slash musicians, Keith Patterson and Mike Statz, from the wonderful music fanzine called Ugly Things, they knocked on Eddie and Gary's door and asked for in-depth interviews, which they got actually, and it's a great interview piece. You can find it online, that was in 1992. So just Google Ugly Things, the Monks, you'll find it. It's an incredible interview. Yes, absolutely. And then in 1994, Eddie's book Black Monk Time was published and movie producers were really actually really interested in the story, which is part of the reason why he published that book. A pair of documentary filmmakers started following him around and filming them, like so many things were happening to them. And then, thanks to Rick Rubin and Henry Rollins, finally 1997 Infinite Zero Records released Black Monk Time for the first time in America. God damn. They finally made it in America. God, yes! Twenty years later, it finally gets released in America. And then 30 years later actually. Yeah, no, yeah. I'm not good at math, so yeah, yeah, 30. And then the offers really started pouring in. They got offers for gigs all over the world, first starting in upstate New York at Cave Stomp, a weekend festival of music groups and artists from back in the day. It is a big get. All five monks killed it that night. They also actually got a new monk, Mike Farnatal, who stepped in to sing for Gary when he blew his voice in rehearsals. He stepped in for most or maybe all the reunion shows since then, because remember, they're much older. This is 30 years later. Yeah, and Gary Berger, his voice like he already blew it out back in 1967. Yes, it's a tough thing to do when you're like 30 years older, but they killed it. They did great. The New York Times gave them a great review. Yeah. Right? Even Roger, Roger, you know, Roger from Texas, the one who says like, of course Texas had to kill Kennedy, the most cynic of them all. Who stole my cuckoo? I want to know who, who? He said like, I didn't think that the monks music was of tomorrow until now. And now they proved me wrong. 30 years was an awful long time to wait though, but I think it was worth it. Hell, I know it was worth it. Yeah. That's Roger Johnson, man. Then the monks continued to play live reunion gigs all over Vegas, London, Switzerland, Austria, Germany, Spain. Actually, it was in Spain where their lineup changed. They couldn't play with one of the monks because unfortunately and sadly in November of 2004, Roger Johnston, the drummer died of lung cancer. He had been a lifelong smoker. It's pretty predictable that the drifter dies first. They, this is sad. They did dedicate their soul. His teeth were falling out of his head of their own accord. He did have a castle made out of his cigarette cartons. Like that's a real thing. Please read. I'll tell you at the end, but the books are fantastic. So the monks, they dedicated their show to him that night. Spain was also the last night that Larry Clark, the organist would play with the monks as well because Larry claimed that Gary called him an asshole in an email. And Gary said, no, this is all in the same email thread. He said, no, I called you an anal retentive asshole. That's very different. I don't know if, you know, why really Larry wanted to quit. Maybe he was just tired, but he never played with the monks again. Yeah, I mean, he's the one in the documentary. He is the one who speaks the least. His interviews are the shortest and he elaborates the least out of everyone. So I got a feeling that the monks was something that Larry Clark kind of wanted to put behind him. Yeah, you probably are. You actually probably are right. So he stayed in Chicago and he actually got married recently for the first time. Congratulations, Larry. Congratulations, Larry Clark. In 2006, the monks played in Zurich, Switzerland with Mark E. Smith from the fall and also with the raincoats were on the bill, which is awesome. I love the raincoats. Incredible bill. And it was what I heard. It was an all right show. Most of what I read was that Mark E. Smith could drink enough to kill a small horse, which is... What about Mark E. Smith? Well, it happened again. Also dead. Rest in peace. After years of reunion shows, the monks, they played their last one in Frankfurt, Germany, which is kind of fitting, in 2007. And then the following year, January 10th, 2008, Dave Day died from a heart attack. Rest in peace, Dave. Yes, he left behind a wife and a son. Dave was memorialized in that year's Rock and Roll Hall of Fame thing that they do in Memorium, which I think was a very sweet gesture. I didn't know that. That's very nice of them. Absolutely. And unfortunately, another monk passed away. Gary Berger died on March 14, 2014, in his town of Bemidji, Minnesota. She did it. Rest in peace. Gary had been suffering from pancreatic cancer, but he just never told the monks he was sick. He came as a surprise to many people. And that's, I didn't want to end it this way. So I decided to also include some nice things that artists have said about the monks that I found in the liner notes in the Light and the Attic vinyl release. And I can also end it with something nice too. Absolutely. So Chris Novicellic, of course, famously from Nirvana, he called the monks monastic madness. The monks can offer serious opinions, but there's really a lot more fun and romance, which is absolutely correct. There is. Gary Smith from the fall, of course, he said, there are very few records I go back to constantly. Cairns Monster Movie and the Monks Black Monk Time. Wow. That is high praise. Huge company. And of course, one of our favorites from Colorado, Jell-O-Biapra. That. Vote for me. Vote for Jell-O. He said, upon listening to the monks, he said, my jaw dropped. I took notes. The electric banjo is such a powerful sonic meat cleaver. Why haven't more bands tried this? I like the monks more than I ever had. Eddie's book should be made into a movie. That's what Jell-O said. And it should be. Yes. It'd be an incredible movie. Absolutely. And I love this story. I'm really glad we got to do the monks. It was originally going to be an extra play just to kind of just be a little fun thing to do. And then when we read the book Black Monk Time by Eddie Shaw, then it's like, okay, we got to do a whole three-part series, apparently, on it. So definitely check out Black Monk Time and Black Monk Time 2, which is the sequel, which is basically their reunion shows. You can check that out. Or you can just check out also if you don't want to get into the books so much. You can also check out their monks' website, their official website. Just Google that. They have so much history there and so many photos. It's really, really fun to check out. History is real loose on that one, though. Yeah, it can be. It can be. Absolutely. But if you do order the books, Eddie Shaw will autograph it for you. And that is the nice thing to end on, is that Eddie Shaw's still selling books and if you order a book from him, he will actually draw... He'll email you and be like, who am I going to make it to? Yeah, he draws a little doodle. So please go buy Black Monk Time. It's such a fucking...it's an underrated classic and the music got a biography genre. Go fucking buy it. Please go support Eddie Shaw. And you can get...because we had to leave out so much cool shit when it comes to our series, but you can find it all there. And as far as people using banjos in a strange way, the band Lightning Bolt, who's one of my favorite Nois Rock groups ever, their guitarist actually uses banjo strings on his guitar. That's cool. I love that. I think it's two banjo strings and two bass strings and then that's how he goes... Do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do. And so on and so forth. Sounds very Yahoo serious. I love it. I love it. Actually it is. Next, I want to thank you to Patrick Fisher. Thank you so much for your assistance, assistant Patrick Fisher. And thank God he was German because he did translate a lot of articles for me. I want to thank Rob Oakey for editing Fantastic Job Part 1, Kelsey Netser for helping us out, and Ryan Conner for recording us. Yes, thank you so much for editing the show. And for editing Part 2 and 3. Absolutely. And I want to thank you too. Oh, and I want to thank you, Carolina. Shut up. Shut up. Thanks so much for listening, y'all. We'll be back here as soon as we can be with our next series. Do we want to tell them what it's going to be? Absolutely. What is it again? It's going to be Jemotsis. Right. German experimental music of the 60s and 70s, aka. We don't say the K word. We do. Croutrock. We're just going to say Croutrock. It's going to be Croutrock. We're going to be covering a whole bevy of Croutrock bands. We're going to be covering about six, right? We're going to do that, but we're going to put them in smaller episodes so that way it'll be easier to digest. And then we're going to end beautifully with Brian Eno, David Bowie, and we'll throw a little sprinkle of Soviet Gpop in there, of course. We're ending with the Berlin period, and we're starting with Amon Duel 2. If you want to have a little bit of preview, go out, get real fucking baked, and listen to Amon Duel 2's album, Foulness Day. Or Yeti. Or Yeti. I know Yeti is the classic. Yeti is the one everyone always just listen to. But here in the Parks and Dahlgo household, we're Foulness Day people. We love God's penis. That's where we should end it. We should end it on that. We will. Thanks for listening. Y'all see you soon. Goodbye. This show is made possible by listeners like you. Thanks to our ad sponsors, you can support our shows by supporting them. For more shows like the one you just listened to, go to lastpodcastnetwork.com. Switch to Plusnet's award-winning full fibre from just $22.99 a month. Our sweet deal gets you fast and reliable broadband with no activation fee, with speeds up to 900 megabits. Oh, feels like a sugar rush. Full fibre that's full of value. That's a plus. Offer ends 6th of May.