Surprising NFL Combine Rumors: Could Braxton Jones RETURN to the Bears? | CHGO Bears Podcast

this is the chgo bears podcast on a monday after the combine welcome in we are live back in studio live from the xfinity loft where it feels oh so good to be home after spending an amazing week with these two fine gentlemen i missed you over the weekend i know you missed me, but it's great to see you today. Adam John's in studio with us today. Adam Hogue in his middle seat with his football, ready to rock and roll. I missed my football. Did you? I did. It's almost become like, it's like your binky. You're more comfortable doing the show with your football. I think it's a better show when I have my football. Steven Nicholas, by the way, of course, producing the program. Greg Braggs is on assignment. He'll be back next week and tonight for Bears After Dark. I think he's just on assignment of being a dad again. Good. Yeah. That's great. It's a good assignment. Greg had a great week. He was by himself with, well, no, I shouldn't say by himself. Pat Norton was there. He was with Pat Norton on Saturday doing the offensive lineman work that apparently nobody did because everybody had left the combine and Braggs was just left to do it by himself, which is quite frankly, you know, that's really the way he should be doing his work. All right, let's get into it, team. Well, before we do that, we have something we've got to tell you about. Okay. Yeah. Because we have a limited collab. A limited collab. And a pop-up shop that is dropping just about a block from where we're at in our West Loop studios over at Legends. I'm sorry, Leaders. I got the Big Ten old division. Remember Legends and Leaders divisions? I do remember that. That's what my brain just did right there. That was horrible. Yeah. No, Leaders right over on Madison. It's a great place. Popped in there a few times. and you should pop in there on Wednesday because Wednesday is our fourth anniversary of launching CHCO. And so to celebrate, we have a limited time collab going on over there with Free Agent and those awesome pieces that you just saw on the screen. If you're listening to the podcast, you should go check them out. I don't know. I'm sure we have these on. We do have it on social media at CHCO Sports. Super cool merch. 12 to 7 over on leaders. It's 1152 West Madison in Chicago. And I think most of us are going to be popping by to the old leaders on Wednesday. I know I will be there. I also know that I've not put down all the time I need to be there. So, Jake Flanagan, if you're watching the show, I will let you know immediately after the show. But I will be there. So, thank you. I look forward to seeing, hopefully. Yeah, if you go over there at some point, there's going to be people from CH Show there all day. Coming and going all day. I expect to see you there, Carm Sweet Bippy. be driving in from DeKalb, Sycamore. Let's have a party at the leaders and get some gear. It'll be awesome. So, yes, that's a – I love pop-up stores and merch and the ability to hang out with, more importantly, the most important to me, hanging out with you all. So that's awesome. Let's get into this here. The old combine. Yep. And I guess where we're going to start is that Ben Johnson came down to Indy, wasn't in full health, didn't look great, met the media multiple times, and then just jetted out of town. I'd rather be in my office at Hallis Hall or home office or wherever he was and get ready for the draft and the Bulls game on Sunday, where he was at yesterday, versus hanging out with all of us down at the Combine. No high velocity late at night for Big Ben. thoughts is this is this a good thing is this a bad thing thoughts well the initial thought was he didn't look too good when he was meeting the media didn't and what did we learn adam yeah so apparently he was dealing with some food poisoning over the weekend leading into it so i think he was like mostly recovered um by the time he met with the media on tuesday but clearly was not was not i mean he seemed like it once he got into the press conference and i i mean we listened to a bunch of the interviews he did like i think you know he was fine the full car wash right Yeah, well, not the full car wash. Who did he miss? Well, CHGO would be one. Fair enough, Hogan Johns. It was a lengthy car wash. Lengthy car wash. We didn't want to bother him. We know that the 26 season is a championship season, and we want Ben fully focused, and also we pay him as much money as we could find in our wall to have him on the show, too. So there's that. Well, don't do that. We're not going to pay. I'll pay. I'm willing to pay for Ben Johnson to be on the show. I was not kind of like the more I thought about it I wasn't surprised that like he wasn't there he was apparent talking to people around the league that people were curious where he was because they all saw him there on Tuesday obviously did a lot of different interviews was featured in a lot of different ways and then he was gone he went home but he's not the only coach that was missing there Sean McVay wasn't there Kyle Shanahan his buddy Matt LaFleur I I believe stays home and Liam Cohn. So this is kind of a new trend where some coaches just prefer to spend their time working at home in the office as opposed to everything that goes down in Indianapolis. Yeah. So as I, as I understand it, like this was the plan, the him being sick on top of it was just sort of an extra wrinkle. He's obviously feeling better because he was at the bulls game yesterday with his family. But yeah, I mean, I think, you know, and this leads to a bigger discussion about what the combine is sort of be coming right now and who really needs to be there for as long as they are and I think you know you get some of these coaches what's what's interesting to me about the Rams and the Jaguars in particular is their general managers aren't even coming now Matt LaFleur has in past years I know gone down and done basically what Ben did which was do the media go back home a little bit easier for teams that are close by I mean the Bears obviously being even closer than Green Bay it's pretty easy for Ben to get down and back knock out you know interviews in person and maybe get a little business done and then go back. But, yeah, I think a lot of these coaches feel like, you know, you have scouting staffs, front offices for a reason. Yes, it's important to get coaches' opinions on guys and things like that, but, you know, there's only so many weeks in the year, and these coaches like Ben Johnson are obsessed with making sure that they are fully prepared for the next season, whether that's working on their playbooks, working on their schemes, working on their opponents, collaborating with their coaching staffs. So doesn't that slightly concern you just a little bit? Like, dude, you have a really, really, really intense job, and I understand that you're a young guy with all the energy and you're Ben Johnson, you can rip your shirt off and do good, better, best, and all the things. But wouldn't you like to see him just show up at the combine? I understand he was sick. But you don't need to race back to do the next amazing Ben Johnson thing. Like, just take a little time, relax. Go to Elmo's, hang out. Go to Elmo's. It's a long season. Well, let me counterpoint to you. Did you relax at all last week? No, but I... No one relaxes at the combine. It's a long week. We haven't heard from Pat Norton all morning. I'm starting to worry about it. I don't... Listen, I would have loved to have heard Ben's not coming to the combine. He's in... He's at the nicest resort in Mexico, the Caribbean, or whatever. He's chilling out. Oh, you want him to fully reset. He already did that. Okay, I'd do it again. No, he had his vacation. He's trying to prioritize his time, including family time, which he had his family at the Bulls game. I respect it. I like seeing Ben Johnson at a Bulls game. I like seeing, I like, like, dude, you put a lot into it. You probably never leave the office during the season. It's okay to take a little bit of time here just to regenerate the batteries, which, by the way, 11 losses in a row for the Bulls, didn't win a game in the month of February for the first time in the history. No one cares about that. No, you're missing the point. 11 losses in a row. Didn't win a game in the history in February. First time in the history of the franchise. This dude shows up. Bears win. Bulls win. Bears win. Bears win for the Bulls. They didn't win. You know, that's, I mean, Ben Johnson, Goat, built the Stanford United Center. I think when he went to the Blackhawks game last year, the Hawks won 7-3, too. See? He's got that touch. Maybe there is something. So he was involved in all the interviews. Yeah, this is important. He was virtually. but can we just all recognize that there's limitations to these combine interviews to begin with? They're, they're in a limited timeframe. These players are so well coached. They're all coached up heading into these. So the answers they get, they're like pre-recorded interviews in a sense, because all these agents have these prospects so coached up and what to say. I think if we look back at the, at the past few years, like the, the allowance, which, how should I put it? The, the use of zoom more and more and more since COVID has changed how teams scout and talk to these players. Cause you're still allowed to, to use that time over zoom beyond what you get in the combine. And I think, I think some teams just from talking to others around the league, see more benefit in getting that extra time over those zooms with some of these players. Is there an actual, I'm learning this on the fly right now. Are you telling me that you get, is there a just decided amount on zoom that you get? Yes. How much? Yes. Yes. I believe it's three hours. Three hours on Zoom versus 10 minutes in person? I think it's 15 minutes. 15 in person? Yes. I could be wrong on this because it changes so much. I think it was 15 or 20. I forget. I thought it was 10. Whatever it is. No, it's more than that. It's a quick interview. And, you know, the Bears in the past, they've had, like, the putting green out there to try to just get some level of what do you really like in a very brief period. Yeah, it was an Ibervoo's thing to try to get these players to relax a bit. Right. Because, again, they're all coached up. Right. So I listen. It does seem crazy to me. On the other hand, that's kind of the point. We're having these guys putt or play darts. They had a choice just to relax. To loosen them up. So it's like, this leads to a bigger discussion because, meanwhile, nobody's working out anymore either. Not nobody, but I was listening to Dane Brugler's podcast, driving down here, and he's clearly frustrated too. Like all these people that do this for a living, whether they're... We can't have a Dane Brugler frustrated. The dude puts way too much into it. He should be rewarded for his efforts. I'm serious. The beast almost came out. Yeah, we saw the actual beast. The point he was making, though, and I totally agree with it, you got these guys up at the podium talking about how much they love football and how much they want to compete. Then they sit on the sideline during the workouts because they don't have a good three-cone time and they don't want to expose it. That's all their agents telling them not to do it, right? He acknowledged it. Yes, 100% it is. But the point he's trying to make is, look, I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but I'm pretty sure they said on that podcast that seven out of like 60-something defensive linemen, seven actually ran the three-to. Were there injury concerns? Because I know sometimes that comes up. So 53 of them are hurt? I don't know. Some of them. Some of them might be, but the point is they know that their time's not that great, and they don't run it. And these teams and these scouts are paying attention to that. What are you hiding? regardless. A bad three-gone time? Well, exactly. So credit to the ones that are running it, but the ones that are running it ran well. So they weren't scared of doing it because they could do it. And it tells you a lot about the guys that didn't do it. And just the point is I don't know, I don't think the NFL Combine is in any imminent danger, but I do wonder what this is going to look like 10 years from now. I mean, we've been going for a long time. I think this was my 16th NFL combine I don't know that we're going to make it to number 26 but hold on I I agree with everything you're saying that uh look compete show your you're about to be paid huge amounts of dough you should be able to you know go out and show it in in the moment and want to show it but I also just I don't know if you're going to go the same direction the NFL is not going to get rid of the combine they want to be in the news always right like that's that's that's going to be part of their motivation but it could pivot into different ways the nfl teams are changing the news this isn't just ben johnson leaving indianapolis going back home the rams have long avoided the combine they're still one of the best drafting teams in the league so obviously the combine which has become bigger and bigger and bigger every single year has lost some of its importance well but i do yes but carm i do think you bring up a great point which is we were still down there along with all of the media feeding the content machine and as long as that's happening the nfl and this is pretty low cost event too i would think i can't imagine it right you know open up the hotels and we'll let you run around and okay because i'm sure indy is giving up i mean i don't i actually don't know this so i probably should expect i'm not imagining that the cost isn't that high. If we're following the trends here, like even team personnel is less and less. Like scouts are coming and going. Defensive coaches are coming down just for defensive player meetings. Offensive coaches are just coming down for offensive player meetings. They're not staying there the full duration of the week. So if we're following the trends, like can you foresee a combine where there's no GM access, no coach access, where the priority is actually the players again? uh see that's that would be tough because most fans they don't know the players there's just great opportunity to know them well yes but you know like i would think that raise 1000 and germy and scotty does know and and and deputy dog they all they all want to hear from ryan poles they want to hear from ben johnson they want to they want to hear from the big players in the room versus the punt returner from Iowa that I'm going to talk about at nauseam coming up here because I've fallen in love with my guy, Caden Weijin. But I believe some of these coaches that aren't attending are still doing like a virtual media availability. I mean, sure. Like Ryan Pohl's the past few years didn't speak at the podium, spoke to the Chicago media. They traveled down there separately. I've never understood. Like these dudes all played. You're telling me that you're going to base your draft pick on how many times This guy can bench 250 pounds or how fast he can run a three cone. Like, come on, man. Like, like, like, well, it's a data point. It's a data point. There's cross-checking. What are they cross-checking? 4-4 to 4-3. They're cross-checking if the film matches what the athletic numbers say. And if they do, then great. Okay, we got a pretty good evaluation here. If they don't, then you got to go back and figure out which one's more real. And that's where so many teams make so many mistakes. They don't, they either, they fall in love with the athletic scores and then they don't pay attention to the production on tape or vice versa. They're like, oh, this guy was highly productive. But in reality, he's just not fast enough to play at the next level. That happens too. So you need – I personally believe the combine has value. It's just – it's changing a lot, I think, along with NIL as these players get empowered more to feel like they have the freedom to make decisions. But I'm just not always sure that those decisions are helping their causes, my point. I'd like to add a drill that would interest me. There's that wall. Go run into it as fast as you possibly can. That's what I'd want to know. Like, who is willing? Well, it doesn't, to me, like, if you're a linebacker, all right, and you can run really fast, that's cool, but I don't care if you, for me personally, I don't care if you run 4-3, 4-4, 4-5. When you get there, you're not going to be willing to literally injure yourself to make the tackle. That's what I want to know. So go run to that wall as fast as you can. Let me see how fast you can do it. You can call it the Bronco Nagurski test. Isn't this part of his legend at Wrigley Field running into the wall after a long run and leaving the brick wall dented? That's the legend of Bronco Nagurski at Wrigley Field, isn't it? That's right. Bronco test. The legend of Bronco test. Run into that wall. Go ahead. It should put you out there on the field. It'll be the tackle karma event. See how hard they tackle you. I don't know if anyone's actually thinking Carm survived. Has anybody done the math on this whole game? I'm sure they have. Like the people that, that really look at the times, I'm going to draft this guy over that guy because he ran a 10th of a second faster that to me, that's insane. That's tiebreaker. I think that matters when you're going to talk about your guy, Caden Weijin here. Like that does matter. If you're looking at a guy who has a specialty role, like a returner, like the guy I wanted to see test that didn't was Aaron Anderson, the LSU wide receiver. Same thing. I thought he'd be a great kick return, punt return option. Now, I thought he was going to be one of the best testers in terms of the 40 time of anyone there. Now we'll never know. We're just going to have to wait for the pro day. See, that doesn't, okay, well, you got the pro day. It also works in the opposite way, where sometimes some scouts get so infatuated with the testing and the numbers, they actually forget about the actual football player. They're so obsessed with the measurements as opposed to the actual football production that skews their evaluation. You see players get overdrafted because of it. 31 and a quarter inch arms can't have that. You got to get to it. You got to be 31 and a half. You got to have it, Hoag. Yeah, well, but then you got Reuben Bain whose arms came under 31. Right, so now you're not going to take him. The guy was a monster for 98% of the season. Ask Dennis Allen. He likes length. I get it. There's traits that you want. I understand the desirability that you want these traits. I also like I think to me it gets thrown out the window. I don't know how he does it. Dude just makes plays. Period. End of story. Like if you get pigeonholed into like this, this is the exact frame that I want and length that I want. And then you have to limit yourself. Then you're going to limit yourself. So I'm confused what you're saying. Are you saying there shouldn't be a combine? No. Listen, I think the combine is great for dudes who need to move up or who want to make a name for themselves. If I'm a first-round pick, you're asking me to go do that? No. No, I'm not. You've seen enough. What do you think about a guy like Jeremiah Love, who was already the consensus top running back, no one's threatening, that goes out and runs anyway? I believe he ran a 4-3-6. Both of the Notre Dame running backs did everything, and they look great. Yeah. Good for them. I wouldn't have advised him to run, but I appreciate the fact that he did. That's great. I'm just saying, if I was an agent, should be a great career maybe i'll make a pivot you know i wouldn't i understand the agents telling dudes that are going to be picked in the top 20 not to not to run but if i if i had a guy that was even a second round pick dude get out there show them that you're showing that you're you want to move up to the first round here's an opportunity to prove it can't promise that you'll do it but you got to go you got it you got to show it is that i mean i don't see that going away do you well no i just i just wonder how much is going to change i mean if the team stops showing up Well, somebody from the team is going to be there. Yeah, the teams will still be there. And I still think it's a great place for networking and getting deals done. Let's not forget Ryan Poles' history of going down there. That's why I'm surprised the GMs aren't all there. But it has nothing to do with the draft picks. It has more to do with setting the table for these. Why do you think these trades happen this morning? It's an immensely valuable time for agents and some of these lead negotiators for teams to cement not only deals, but learn what the real markets are as well. Also for Hogan Johns, did you guys read the piece at allchgo.com today? I mean, the takeaways from the combine, whatever the title was, that it's a phenomenal piece with a lot of depth in there, which we'll continue talking about in a very amazing way coming back in a second. But first. A shout out to our friends at Xfinity and their five year price guarantee. There's nothing like hanging out within Adam Hogue for five years, 10 years, 20 years. How long has it been? But what if I could give you reliable and intelligent Wi-Fi, Hoger? Not what you're getting with me. You're pretty reliable. And what if you could keep it at the same price for five as your price keeps going up, but not the Xfinity five-year price guarantee Wi-Fi that makes everything in your home work together. It finds and fixes the problems before you even notice them. Super intelligent. It's got the sixth sense. It the amazing Wi Let you stream the game Even when the family online you know if James if Libby if anything going on all your devices are going to be working in perfect harmony Lock in your price and unlock the possibility with Xfinity Learn more at Xfinity.com. Xfinity, imagine that. Select plans only. Restrictions do apply. All right, don't get fooled, guys, by the sun is out a little bit more. We're about to get an extra hour with daylight savings time. all these things we feel. I saw the Sandhill cranes, the noises of spring are coming back. You know third winter's coming. We always get third winter in Chicago. It's really happening today. Well, right. So you want to just don't be fooled. You got to make sure your home's heating is up for the challenge still. So if you haven't done it already, call Four Seasons. Get your furnace tune-up going. If you're thinking about a whole home generator, they've got you covered there. Four Seasons is going to guarantee you same-day installation for all your heating, cooling, plumbing, electrical, and generator needs with no extra charge for nights, weekends, or holidays. Right now you can save up to $4,000 on furnaces and comfort systems with Four Seasons heating, air conditioning, plumbing, sewer, and electric. And by the way, if you are thinking ahead to summer, those furnace AC combos, you can get them for $57 a month right now. So Four Seasons, they are your trusted local experts. Visit FourSeasonsHeatingCooling.com for all their special offers and money-saving coupons. That's FourSeasonsHeatingCooling.com. All right, this next segment is called One Thing We Heard at the NFL Combine in 2026 that surprised us. One Thing We Heard, not sponsored at this moment, but it could be sponsored for One Thing We Heard 2027. What do you think about that, Hoag? One Thing We Heard 2027, brought to you by whoever it could be in the Xfinity loft. I like that idea. Sounds like you need to take that up with sales. Well, I'll talk to Lori. This is Agent and Carm working right now. Well, people think I should be an agent, so I'm just leaning into it. One thing we heard out of the combine should be sponsored this time next year. It's not sponsored. That's okay. Adam Hogue, what's one thing you heard in your trials and tribulations, your late nights in Indianapolis, your dedication that started early in the morning until 3 when I was sleeping? What are you going to leave us off? I like how you said 3 when I was sleeping. How about 11.30? I was, like, home at 11.30. I went to bed at, like, 12.02 for the record. My biggest thing that I was, when I was going through all the notes over the weekend, is that I just, I didn't really see a world where there was that Braxton Jones could come back this year. I just, it felt, it felt like when the season was over, they were done with him and he was probably done with them. And I don't, I still don't buy that he's definitely coming back or anything. I'm not sure anybody's actually saying that either. I just, it sounds like it's on the table, like it's under consideration. And I imagine that Ozzy Trapilo's injury opened the door for that possibility. But remember, I guess we don't know his full health, but he theoretically could have played in the playoff game when Ozzy was hurt. And he seemed like he was just more of an afterthought. So, you know, I'm sure he's trying to get fully healthy again. and maybe it depends on who else out there is interested in Braxton. Maybe he gets an opportunity to start, but this feels a little bit like the Tevin Jenkins situation last year, and that one seemed pretty obvious that Tevin was just going to move on. So I guess I was surprised to hear that that could still be on the table. I think our wording in our column was don't be surprised if the depth chart at left tackle heading into the draft is some form of Karon Amagaji, Theo Benedict, and a veteran to be named later. that veteran could be Braxton Jones. Yes, I think the Bears will look at the draft for potential upgrade opportunities, but at the same time, they have a long list of defensive needs that need to be addressed, and the draft is the best place to do that. We're talking defensive line, pass rusher, linebacker, maybe two safeties, a cornerback depth that needs to be addressed as well. So the draft seems to, the defense seems to be the focus of the draft, while some money could be spent on left tackle. So just rewinding back to last year with Braxton, that dude behind the scenes once he was put on IR he was working he would be coming in the locker room late after seemingly every practice that I was there full sweat was grinding his way trying to get back to health so I wouldn't predict that he'll be back here but I wouldn't I guess to what you're talking about it doesn't seem like it's being completely ruled out I'm just asking you guys and we'll move on to Johnsy yours your one thing you were surprised about but if you were to pick right now hey here are your three options you got Braxton Jones back on a one-year prove-it deal you're leaning into Theo Benedett and hoping that he finds the level that he didn't have last year and or I'm rolling the dice on Karan Amagaji in year three like which which of those three options is the most appealing to you well I don't I think everything packaged together is the option where they have these three players go at it well which is what they did last year and they did they survive they survived they survived so I think that they feel like with four other uh you know above average to really really good players on those four other spots that they can survive at left tackle yeah but it it worked out that ozzy took the job had the job and then when ozzy got hurt they were like yeah uh and i know braxton wasn't ready to go but they they they punted on theo i thought you know i think most people thought they would have let they would put theo back out there and they just didn't do it they punted on braxton they're right and he was active too right wasn't he active for the playoff game is that right like he was or was it was rumored no he wasn't active it was rumored that he was going Jones also hadn't practiced in like full pads in months yeah yeah that's that's a real concern heading into that game and Theo had his struggles I think Theo Bennett will be better and his will be it will be his third season right left tackle that's right he's on draft the guy two years ago so I get some angst if Bears fans want the team to take a left tackle at number 25 but there's just such a long list of defensive needs that I think need to be addressed for all right let's keep it moving though carm what was the most thing the one thing you heard that surprised you so I mean there was just first of all I was just surprised at how much Tyson Bajan talk there was I was not I did not think going down there that like Bajan was surprised but loved it kind of liked it but didn't really because the last thing I want is Tyson going anywhere why would you trade the best player on the team that seems insane to me um but but so at any rate uh you can't stop making that joke why why why you know hey listen uh long crew we'll see where it ends up but uh his or yours his i'm i'm almost at the end here we all know this but so look i i you know just following the the bajant news coming out and you know courtney asked the question and ryan didn't shy away from it and then okay well now where exactly are we at the the biggest thing to me is that you know like I would figure if I was Tyson I'd want to go play like immediately get me out here that does that's not the sense that I got from anybody uh on on 17th side of things they they they love it in Chicago they love uh being with Ben sure he's obviously dying to play he's he's talked about that you know on on the show but he's also very content to continue learning and and supporting and and being the best dude that he can possibly be in that locker room so uh those guys don't he doesn't want to go anywhere he's he loves it in Chicago so I thought to me at least that was at least the news itself and then the sort of the reaction was a little bit of a surprise well you know it it I could see why you know people would assume that he's just ready to go play somewhere he's been here for three years um you know but this league man you got to be in the right spot like even no matter what position you play but especially quarterback you know I talk about this every year where you get drafted matters so much and we've seen it here in Chicago where they just did not have the infrastructure to bring up a young quarterback and I I think you know they were in danger of making that same mistake again with Caleb Williams and thankfully they got the right coaching staff in here and the right guy um to salvage the whole thing because Caleb if if you room Caleb then you just shouldn't exist anymore right because with all the talent that he has right so they got it figured out and and Tyson is a is a also being a beneficiary of that because he's in a great spot here and you're seeing right now with Malik Willis Malik Willis is rumored right now to get 20 to 25 million dollars a year for doing what right like he failed somewhere already but he just went and spent two years and barely played but played just enough that people got a taste and they trust the fact that he was with Matt LaFleur in a good situation and got better. So if you're Tyson Bajan a year from now with two years under Ben Johnson and on the market, trade market again, or God forbid he makes it all the way to the year after that because that's when his contract's actually up. Like there's definitely a world where he could make life-changing money with very little tread on the tires. But from the Bears' side of things, do they have to strike this year on the market? Is this the year his value is perceived to be the highest out there? You have 10 teams with new head coaches. You have a bunch of teams looking for quarterbacks. You have a weak draft class. You have a weak free agent class. We just talked about Malik Willis leading that class. Is this the Bears' best opportunity to maximize Tyson Bajan's trade market in their favor? Well, it could be, but that doesn't mean you give them away. you let the market here's the answer that question you let the market they're not like if you could get a second round pick or a third and and some more do you take it well that's my point yes if you let the market answer that if the market answers that question and says yeah you're getting a second round pick then i would do it but if not then you can be patient because the value of having a really good backup quarterback is worth more to me than anything less than the second round the denver broncos would have played in the super bowl had their backup quarterback been able to play a little bit better and i get there was a snowstorm and all the things you quarterbacks get hurt caleb williams is going to miss time at some point in his career the bears are doing everything they can to be in position to win next year i mean that's absolutely on the table they they should have could have would have whatever played in the nfc championship game this year you would think that the quarterback is going to be better you would think the wide receiver room takes a step forward you would think that the the young tight end who had a great breakout season you would think they're going to fix the defensive line at least somewhat so uh look you're this is it's an all-in year man uh so i i yes you to johnsy your point like maybe you get the most from this year but let's just say hypothetically caleb doesn't play every game he misses two games all right and let's just say that the bears believe in tyson tyson obviously believes in himself he goes out there he plays well in those two games how much but how much more are you getting than next year Let's say the guy goes out there and lights it up or whatever, wins two games and throws four touchdown passes and one interception, two and one and two and zero. Now what is he worth? See, that strikes me as a hypothetical that teams would probably tell you if you ask them about it. They can't even entertain because they don't know. Something's unpredictable about it. What they can predict is the market this year where there's 10 teams with new head coaches, a lot of different – the number of offensive coordinators is even more ridiculous than that. new offensive coordinators. Like if you're Tyson Bajan, are there any teams right now that may interest you? The Raiders, Dolphins, Jets. Are they on your list? The Cardinals would be on my list. Cardinals? Because now before they wouldn't have been, but now they have Mike LaFleur. So it's Sean McVay coaching tree. You have Trey McBride there and Marvin Harrison Jr. That situation I'd be pretty excited about. Listen, I'm at the same time as, you know, happy in Chicago. If the dude gets a chance to start somewhere, he's going to be fired up. I mean, he probably won't sleep for the next four months at the opportunity. Right, but truth serum, if he found out right now he's going to the Jets, you think he's happy about that? I mean, I just think he'd be all in on believing himself that he's going to make it work. Bottom line. But that's obviously not... That's not answering my question. Sure, not an ideal situation. Not an ideal situation. Right. Right. I mean, personally, I'd rather be because he's making the same money regardless. That's right. Unless they're like going all in. We're going to trade for him and give him a big contract extension, which they don't need to do. And that was doing that. There's no point in that. So you're making the same money elsewhere. I think I'd rather be in Chicago with Ben Johnson for one more year than than going into. Well, and there you have it. You know, the where the Jets are now the team that's spitting out quarterbacks left and right. All right. Let's get John's. He's one thing that surprised him in the segment that will be sponsored next year in twenty twenty seven. I got a couple things. One, I was kind of surprised that there, I don't want to say zero interest, but the Bears' planet safety for their future does just not include Jaquan Brisker right now, or at least it doesn't sound like it. It's re-signing Kevin Byard, maybe looking at some other safeties, and then the draft. I'm okay with that. I understand that. But I thought, given everything that Brisker meant on and off the field, the way he played in what could be his last game as a Bear in the playoffs, I thought there would be more, I don't know, conversation about the possibility of Jaquan Brisker returning. I don't know what you guys feel about that. And the other one that surprised me, I thought the Combine would be buzzing about Max Crosby and a potential trade wherever. I'm not just talking about the Bears, but wherever, given how the buzz is that he's unhappy there. and there was like very, very, very little of that going around in Indianapolis. Well, that's a great tease because that's what we're going to get into next because I agree with you. I expected a different week when it came to Max Crosby conversation. So when we come back, we'll talk because there was a little bit of hint this morning, though, that a trade could still actually be happening. Little hinty. Little hinty. Little hinty. Little hinty. Little hinty. All right, Max Crosby talk coming up next, but first. Hey, shout out to my favorite people, the leaders at game day men's health. If you're starting to feel like you got low energy throughout the day, you don't want that. You want to have that same motivation and drive that you had when you were 22 years old or 16 years old or whenever you had it. 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Your choice of 10 boneless wings or 10 buffalo shrimp. I like buffalo shrimp. Served with curly fries or tots, just $9.99. How about that deal? You can check out the big fish sandwich, too. It's perfectly seasoned. Tendered cod. Grilled blackened. I always like the blackened. You go blackened fish. Yeah, let's spice it up. Let's go. Or you can enjoy a full pound of succulent snow crab legs served with warm drawn butter and fresh lemon. That sounds outstanding, too. They got a lot of things going on right now. The drink of the month. Madness all month with the mango mojito. Just $8. Give me seven of those. That'll do some damage. There's Bacardi, rum, mango puree, lime juice, and mint in there. Check out all their locations. Favorite teams, any of their 11 Chicagoland Hooters locations. You can go Aurora, Countryside, O'Hare, Orland Park. Plenty more. Check them out at originalhooters.com. All right. To the Max Crosby trade rumors we go. Yeah. And so, Albert Breer's out there today. A couple others, too, saying that, yeah, he wouldn't, perhaps, Something could be coming as soon as this week. What thoughts, reactions will the Bears be? And I saw Tom Pellicero. He was on with the Rich Eisen. So, Rich Eisen, thank you for joining us on the show. He listed the Bears first as the teams that might be a Crosby landing spot. That was today? That was today. Yeah, see, that's what – so early in the week, I thought that's the road we were going to be headed on. I thought that there was going to be buzz about not only Crosby getting traded, but that the Bears were going to be involved. I still think that's a possibility, but I was surprised that not only was there not a ton of buzz, but it seemed like whatever buzz came out actually downplayed the idea. Not only that the Bears would be involved, but that he would be traded. So I'm going to choose to look at this kind of logically. To me, it makes sense for the Raiders to trade him. they're about to draft a rookie quarterback their roster is not in any type of shape that he is going that they're going to win while he's got what three prime years left and even that you could argue is risky because he's coming off the second this is his second straight off season where he's having surgery two years in a row so you know i do think that there's a there's a sense of risk in trading for him. And even though I do not think, and this has actually been reported multiple places, I think is also logical that you're just not going to get the same amount that the Cowboys got for Michael Parsons last year. You still get a first round pick probably. You could get another player and maybe more than that. And that could definitely help you with sort of resetting here with a coaching staff that I like that they put together, a good young quarterback who I think is good, but I don't think is to the level of Caleb Williams in terms of pure talent. Like he's going to need a good situation around him to have a lot of success. And if you don't do the trade now, then your draft capital you're getting back in return isn't until next year. So to me, if I'm building the Raiders right now, I think it makes sense to move Max Crosby because you also, if you keep him, there's the same risk. he could get hurt again now you're not getting anything for him in the future his contract is more movable than most which also helps the draft compensation you get back and if i'm going to do this i want to do it now so that the pick i get back the picks i get back are this year where are you drawing the line if you're general manager ryan poles like is it i'm not giving up two first round picks absolutely not i am not entertaining that conversation whatsoever 100 on my side too I would not do it. I'd give up this year's. I would 100% give up this year's. Not only is it 25th, and we know that, because you don't know what it's going to be next year, right? Like Ryan Pace was famous in being like, well, we never want to pick in the top five again, or whatever the exact quote was. Well, and then the Bears just kept picking in the top 10, right? I'm not saying that's going to happen, but the point is you're just never guaranteed to know where it's going to be in the future. You know where this one is. You know it's a weaker first round. I mean, we've been talking about this for a while. like if they're talking about top so that the Raiders would obviously argue for more but if I'm Ryan Pohl I'm saying no right well but then get creative I mean honestly as much as I would sort of feel bad for DJ Moore like he he's a player who kind of makes sense yeah I would understand to go help a young quarterback elsewhere well right if you're telling me the package is a first DJ and that's it and so I'll give a later round pick no I'd give more than that I'm okay throwing and later. I mean you can go up like a future third or something And then maybe you get something I remember even in the Khalil Mack trade the Bears got back a second So if they want a future year they not going to get back a second No but my point is you can there more that they could throw back to you too to help offset the cost a little. Right. And people are, I see Tremaine Edmonds in the comments. I saw it online too. I'm not trading Max Crosby for Tremaine Edmonds, who's going to get cut. That's like, that's just not, that's not going to be part of the equation. Well, I'll tell you what, that's another thing I'm surprised by though, is how many people are out there kind of sticking their neck out there saying there's a market for Tremaine Evans. Yeah, ESPN was, that was their buzzworthy article, right? They had what, the Raiders, Giants, and Titans mentioned as possibilities? And by the way, they nailed the David Montgomery trade in there too. I mean, so like, because in that same piece, I think it was Jeremy Fowler who I think is actually going to join us on this show on Wednesday, and Dan Graziano, they said it was in that piece where there's David Montgomery's probably going to get traded. Even David Montgomery agreed with that take. I'm sorry, disagreed with that take. And then he got traded immediately after. So I think we've got to pay attention to these things. I'm not dismissing the idea that Tremaine Edmonds could be traded. It's just a little bit surprising to me because same thing, trying to look at it logically, $15 million for a guy who would seem like you're over. Now, maybe the Bears would take some of that money in return, but then to me that doesn't make sense either because you're getting more cap savings than by just cutting. The Bears have a lot of roster flexibility. If you look at just the number of players they have in their contract for the next few years, and you could get out of the Diode Angbo and Grady Jarrett contracts after the season. So the flexibility is right there for, sorry, you got something? No, no, no, I keep going. I just, I'm going to talk about the fit, period, minus anything outside of what they're giving up. Like, if you look at, you have, I think, one of the players that I think most Bears fans are excited about right now, at least on some level, is what Austin Booker can be in year three. Got healthy, played well second half of the season. You're still paying Montez Sweat a ton of dough. So if you go and you trade for Crosby, how exactly does that break down? Like, are you playing Crosby 85% of the snaps? Same thing with Booker. Same thing with you're playing sweat 85%, Crosby 85%, and you're giving 30% to Booker. Or are you sliding, as John and I were talking before the show, like maybe you're sliding sweat inside. Just the actual fit itself is a little bit interesting, period. Well, but you're getting down a road that I genuinely hate these conversations. Why? Because Max Crosby would be by far the best player on the defense. It wouldn't be close. if he wants to play 100% of the snaps he gets to play 100% of the snaps and I don't really care who's behind him okay so that's fine are you completely punting on Booker then? are you splitting the other two? let's just say he wants to be out there 100% of the time and his body holds up Booker still needs to prove he can play better against the run first of all okay I think these are good problems to have and I know exactly what Ryan Poles would say if he was sitting right here in Adam Hoke's seat you can you can never have enough pass rushers that's a good problem to have you want to have waves and waves and waves max crosby is his own wave you can move montez water around if you have to let me let me ask you this if you're the if you're the raiders or even if you're the bears for that matter are you making booker a part of the deal what are you are you is there any hesitation about shipping austin booker out uh yes there would be hesitation um and that was the hesitation right there okay goodbye well i think it's important It's Max Crosby. I got it. I got it. Booker and Max Crosby worked out together prior to his rookie season starting. So, I mean, that might be something that Max Crosby would actually want him to stick around, and he could be a great mentor for Austin Booker. Austin Booker had one of the best motors on the Chicago Bears last year. That dude, once he finally got healthy, he was relentless in getting to the quarterback. I'm not saying you don't make the move because you're going to block Austin Booker, But I do think it's a little bit interesting that Sweat had a functional year, 10 sacks, whatever, Booker was coming out. You bring in Crosby. I think you likely have to consider, can Montez Sweat play inside some? Does he, and, you know, he's huge up front. But as far as the rear is concerned, you know, that's not his strength. Most guys that you play inside, you know, you've got to, for lack of a way of putting, you've got to have the big ass. I mean, that's what that job is. And that's not his game. He's more of the, you know, he's got less than a big ass. So I don't know how functional he'd be inside. Well, I would say maybe on third and seven, third and eight, I think he'd actually be pretty good inside if you needed to insert some speed, whatever, NASCAR package, whatever you want to call it. NASCAR package. NASCAR package. Shout out to MJ, three in a row. That's our entire block. A. All right. Just make a prediction then on the way out here. Do you think it happens as far as A. He gets traded? Yes. 100% I think he gets traded. Okay. Where that is depends on what the Raiders can get in return. I would just argue and caution against Ryan Poles giving up two second round picks. I could completely see the Bears making this move. 100%. It makes complete sense to add one of the premier pass rushers to a unit that has struggled to get to the passer. He would make the Bears immediately better on day one. They would be a Super Bowl contender even more so than they are today. I understand all of that, but at the same time, how much are you giving up because you still have some other roster concerns that you need to address? I also think it's worth noting that that contract kind of fits the same timeline that we've been talking about with the flexibility. The two-year window. Yeah, with the two-year window. Well, one thing is for sure. If they do trade for Max Crosby or anyone, the show will be breaking in. So hit the like button, hit the subscribe button, tell a friend, Bears coverage, 52 weeks of the year, five days a week right here at CHGO Bears, and go subscribe to Hogan Johns right now if you haven't done that too. Damn it. I think the biggest question in the media is, is DJ Moore getting traded this week? Mm-hmm. You got a thought on that one? I, well, to me, what's most interesting about that conversation is how unclear it still is. You know, I think there's good arguments both ways. Depending on what hour of the day it is and where my brain's at, I tend to go one way and then not change. I'll share this. When I go down the road of thinking he'll actually be traded, it has less to do with intel that I've received and more to do just about the moments in the season last year where it just seemed like, and maybe I was watching too many QB school videos, where it just seemed like something was off. And I think the way Nate Tice put it, speaking of Hogan Johns the other day, like, yes, it's good to have all these weapons, but at some point you got to kind of sort it all out and who's the odd man out, and the odd man out could still be somebody they like. And I think that that could be this situation. They're always looking for an equal or better, cheaper option to give yourself roster flexibility. And DJ's the most expensive and has the least upside, let's say it like that. Well, Nate Tice described it, as Hogue was alluding to, as a win-win for the Bears. It's a win because the Bears are a good team with D.G. Moore. D.J. Moore is still, he's a good weapon. He really is. He can do a lot for your offense. As Ben Johnson said, he's the one who knew every receiver position on the roster. And he played all 17 games unlike his teammates. The other win part of this is he's up there in age. You have this contract, and it's responsible to entertain trade offers. So if you get a third-round pick, a fourth-round pick, and some change, it's responsible roster management to move on if you're Ryan Pohl's. I mean, they've got to get under the cap. And listen, at some point you have to bet on your ability to develop players. You drafted Roma Dunes, a number nine overall. You have Luther Burden. You have Luther Burden. You have Colson Lovelland. You have Colson Lovelland. Holcomb that's coming back. You've got the dynamic gadget piece that I'm about to talk about. So let me really tease that up. We'll let you do that. Thank you. Here's how I'm trying to think about this. So let's say instead of getting this four-year contract extension, which is really just starting now, that's kind of the crazy thing that we're talking about trading DJ Moore. Let's say he had not gotten that contract and he was a free agent right now. He was about to go hit free agency. Where would he be in the FA market? DJ Moore. DJ Moore right now. If he was a free agent. The top receiver, correct me if I'm wrong, is widely considered to be Alec Pierce, right? Yeah. He's the top free agent receiver, the Colts receiver. And he's likely to get tagged now. Franchise tag. Now, he's younger. He's bigger. He's certainly shown flashes. Hasn't had nearly amount of the same production as DJ Moore. Right. I was going to say, I'm not sure he's completely as reliable. Like, you know what you're going to get on a game-to-game basis. Then again, DJ's production was also down this year too. So my point that I'm trying to make is, so Stephen, you mind looking at what's the free agent tag number then on what, I'm sorry, the franchise tag number that Alec Pierce will get? Because if that's what they're going to do, the Colts are basically telling you that we're willing to pay this. So DJ's owed, if you're going to trade for him right now, you're on the hook for a little over $23 million this season. and 15.5 million will guarantee for next season at that point. So even if disaster strikes, there's a chance that you could get out of it next year. You're still going to be on the hook for 15.5, but you could have some cap savings compared to keeping him around. And then there's an out the rest of the way. So I guess what I'm trying to say is, I think he kind of gets that on the free agent market anyway, potentially. So this is a long way of being like, as much as I've looked at the contract sometimes being a hindrance, and I do think it is a hindrance, it's certainly going to affect what the Bears can get in return. Because you're not just paying for a free agent. You're also giving up draft capital or whatever you're giving up. It's a trade, right? So that affects it. There could be more demand than I initially thought, when you just think about it that way. I think what you're saying is that DJ Moore, at the end of the day, still plays a premium position. Right. It's what receiver is. It would be very expensive to sign him with. It's one that requires continuous investment. Some teams have a lot of salary cap space. They have the cap space to handle a DJ Moore-like contract, whether that comes through free agency where you're always going to overpay for a receiver or it's bringing in DJ Moore instead of having him be traded elsewhere. What's the... 27.3, really. I rounded up a little, but yeah, 27.3. For Alec Pierce to be tagged. Yeah. What? I think what you're basically saying is like it's not that big of an overpay for DJ. You wouldn't be getting him for much less. I mean, but I, right? Right, but you have to trade something to get him to. Right. You know. He's, I still think it's, you're making a major commitment bringing him in financially. He's going to eat up, what is the exact percentage of that? It's not, it's about 8% of your cap for DJ. I think what we're underestimating is that the NFL is full of bad contracts. Right. In all seriousness, teams enter the free agent market with a lot of money. They sign guys they think they need, and within two years they're releasing these guys because the contract's bad. And there's teams that want wide receivers. The Bills want a wide receiver. Premium position. If the Eagles trade A.J. Brown, do they become a D.J. Moore possibility? Well, that's the other thing with D.J. You know you're getting a guy that's never going to cause you any problems in your locker room. You know you're going to get a guy that's going to come out every day at practice and be a straight professional. You know you're getting a guy who knows the entire route trade, is going to figure out the offense. It's a very low risk as far as bringing him into your team. And except for this past season, has shown you that he can consistently produce despite who's playing quarterback. Well, even this year, like, yeah, didn't have the numbers. Who had the biggest catch of the year for the Bears? Well, his name is D.J. Moore, and he did it against the Green Bay. Packers with a guy draped all over them that won them a game that they've never won in the history of the franchise in essence so uh I you know I think there's probably some market for them I am seeing that question in our chat a lot like you know if if the Bears do trade DJ Moore which teams would actually want him and I'm just look I'm gonna go in order of team cap space most to least Titans they would want them Raiders yeah they would want them Jets they would want them I could see the commanders wanting them with uh Debo Samuel on his way out to me there's actually a lot of teams that could actually eat up that amount of cap space and also have a need for someone like DJ more with his experience and so let's just say hypothetically that Stephen's right that all those teams want him what are you willing to give him up for what are those teams willing to part with I don't think it's more than a fourth round third round pick yeah fourth round pick late third round pick so would you trade him for would you would you get DJ's contract off the books for a fifth round pick would you do that well let's go back to fourth round pick because when you said that it just popped in my head what the Chiefs did last year to trade Joe Tooney to the Bears for a fourth round pick. Okay. They could say, ah, that looks bad on paper, except for the fact that they had to move somebody off that line to keep the younger, cheaper option, which is not unlike what the Bears are looking at here. They. Aren't they moving more guys off that line today, too? Did I see reports? Are we releasing someone? Yeah, the tackle. Jawan Taylor? Jawan Taylor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, and that's the situation you get in sometimes. So, you know, do you have to move DJ Moore for a fourth round pick? just to really open up opportunities, get the contract off your books and open up opportunities for younger players that you drafted, like Luther Burden. These are the things that happen when you're good. Sure, and also I think if you are trading for Max Crosby and he can be a part of that trade, I think that feels like a perfect scenario. Yeah, talking about a win-win. For the Bears, which is why I don't think... I don't know if it's a perfect scenario for the Raiders. You doing that over there? I always bring this up. The Raiders' number one receiver right now is Trey Tucker. They need an upgrade. They traded Jacoby Myers in season last year. They don't really have an answer at receiver. And if you're going to have Fernando Mendoza coming in as the number one overall pick, you want him having someone to throw to other than Brock Bowers. Makes sense adding D.J. Moore. D.J. Moore, Ashton Jensie, Brock Bowers. That's not a bad little trio. Somebody with the quarterback. I forget who it was, but one of the draft picks this week was asked, who was the toughest guy you had to tackle? I think it was probably a Fran Duffy question. He asked that to a lot of guys. Who's the toughest guy I had to tackle in my college career? Ashton Gentry. And I'm just like, yeah, well, maybe there's a little more gas in that tank. That will show up in year two for him on a better roster. Before we get to the top of the hour here, we haven't talked about David Montgomery leaving Detroit, going to the Texans for a fourth-round pick and a couple of others. And I had heard just a slight thing that there was a potential the Bears might be interested in bringing Montgomery back. And it wasn't for, I saw a lot of people, I put it out on Twitter, they're like, they would never do that for Kyle Manunga. It wouldn't have been for Kyle Manunga. It would have been in lieu of DeAndre Swift, which obviously that price was way too cost-perivative, and the Bears liked Swift, so it didn't happen. But that's a decent-sized player leaving the division and a former Bear. Yeah, I mean, they've had a good two-headed running back attack, with Jamir Gibbs and David Montgomery. I guess I was a little surprised by it because I didn't really think his contract was that crazy. They also got an offensive lineman back. They got a seventh-round pick back. They got a ton. That's quite a lot, actually, for David Montgomery. When it first came out, it was just a fifth-round pick. That turned out to be incorrect. I was like, well, okay, that's a little weird. But when it was a fourth, a lineman that obviously they like, and I know that's a big emphasis for the Lions this year is to toughen back up on the offensive line. Juice Scruggs. Yeah. Okay. I can see why the Lions did it. Haven't there been rumors about like DJ Moore? Or not DJ Moore. David Montgomery wanting out for a while now? I didn't hear any of that. I didn't hear that either. It was just actually surprising. Maybe I'm making it up. Yeah. Now he's out. I feel like maybe I'm spending too much time and Lions Twitter world. Speaking of that, I don't know where Chim is or anything. Anyway, we're going to go to overtime. Brief overtime today. Become a diehard, and you can read what Johns and I wrote about the Bears and what we heard at the Combine. All right, you ready for this one, Hoag? I did this. This segment is for you. I'm scared. I mean, you're the special teams guy. Yeah. I sat down, and we talked about this last week, but we didn't play the interview. We're going to play it right now. This is one minute with my new... Oh, you actually talked to him. Yes. I have a draft crush, and yes, I graduated from the University of Iowa in 1996. Of course, I do root for the Northwestern Wildcats against them, but I still graduated there, and I have tremendous pride. Loved Iowa City. If I could go back and do it again, I'd do it again 100 times. You didn't really have a Elijah Hussey moment this week. Are you aware of that? Disagree. This is it right here. Oh, okay. No, I did not have an Elijah Hussey moment. I tried, but whatever. Those things are hard to duplicate. Shout out Elijah Hussey. I actually asked some people about Elijah Hussey, which we'll play later in the week or at some point, maybe when you're on vacation. But so this is Caden Weijan. He was a junior college guy, a no-star recruit, walk-on at Iowa, and now he's the only guy in college football who scored a touchdown last year, running the football, catching the football, punt return, kick return. He stands 5'9". He's got more touchdowns in his college career than Tim Dwight did at Iowa. That guy had a long career in the NFL as a special teams guy. Here he is, Caden Weijin. Caden, how do you talk about your— your fearlessness? I think, I hope you guys all see it on the tape, just kind of trying to return everything I can. And I mean, just kind of being the most dangerous guy out there and making the, I mean, we had a high pressure unit as the punt return unit. So just kind of trying to get the ball to the punter's foot and trying to make a play every single time. And you could hear it in the crowd that they knew something was coming every single time we had a chance. You just mentioned Hester. What did you love about Devin the most? I mean, he was the same way, man. He's just making plays and super fearless. So just watching a guy like that who's the best ever do it was super awesome. Do you have a favorite effort moment that you can recall? I think mine is returning to the Super Bowl for sure. Just watching that to start off the game. I think he's the only one who's done it since for sure. So, but, yeah, just that was probably my favorite place for him. Red meat for you Chicago Bears fans. His favorite guy. Did you tell another reporter to shut up before he questioned it? reporter very rudely told phil thompson so i did not know that the great phil thompson from the chicago tribune was standing behind me but i was there with the camera it was rolling and i'm ready to go and with all due respect to phil thompson he tried to jump me uh and and i was like you're like hang out one second and i just told to shut up nicely hang out one second i got this and then And sometimes you got to, hey, box out, man. I respect it I like how that made the edit You had the inside position He went over the back Yeah That a foul Hang on a second Phil And then I let Phil and it in there He he got his he got his the video. He got his Hester question in there. And Phil's a good guy. And I like Phil. Phil can be, you know, he's he's he's aggressive in the room. He's there to make he's there to be heard. So anyway, I had to but I had to box him out to start it. This kid is impressive, man. If You go and you watch his highlights. It's rare that you get a returner who's equally comfortable both as a kick returner and as a punt returner. This guy's got four punt return touchdowns. He's got a kickoff return touchdown for 100 yards. And when he finally got to catch balls as a receiver this year, he caught 20 of them. Again, a fascinating story. Junior college, walk on, and then moved his way up. And when you watch him with the football, he's fun to watch. Check out his highlights. I like him. You don't have to sell me too hard on returners. I'm always looking for him. I think part of the problem here is, Carmen, he was in college for six years. I like that. Well, which one of the 22 receptions he had in community college and the 23 receptions he had in Iowa, which one was your favorite? I'm not worried about him as a receiver. I like punt. Was Devin Hester a receiver? Okay, well, first of all. He was for five seconds. Not a good one. First of all, this is not Devin Hester. of course it's not okay it's devin hester light devin it devin hester really light devin hester lightest fine that's totally fine listen we're talking fran's got him as his 177th prospect in a six to seventh round uh projection that's fine yeah yeah i'm okay with that too okay i'm just trying to be clear we're not talking about the next devin hester coming to town We're not, but we are talking about the next Devin Duvernay strong coming in here. And Devin Duvernay had a good year. But let's give a young guy a chance here, and I'm intrigued. I'm with you. I like the idea of upgrading the special teams. Got it, Hogue? Special teams? Let's go. Finding more explosiveness. Finally. Five extra yards out there. Finally some respect here. I think you and I have debated this a few times. Devin Duvernay, yes, as Carm said, had a good year. But there were times where you just felt like there was more on the field. so maybe karm's guy can provide that listen i'm nothing if not a an expert talent evaluator and in my from agent that's exactly right mr everything you do it all yeah you know everybody at that that time you know nobody nobody realized that 17 would be sitting here with his jersey on on the table that nobody can see because of our uh the way it's we're fulfilling are we you rewriting history here yeah did you pound the table for bajin before he was a bear you know who i did pound the table for that year i pounded the table for the lefty from like eastern washington yeah but i pounded i pounded the table for them to draft somebody who had played a ton of quarterback and develop them yeah and so i did do that i remember that i i i said enough with the find somebody who doesn't have the perfect traits who's played a lot of who's played a lot of quarterback and has done really well and put them in your in your room and develop and that's what they did with Tyson I didn't realize that they had drafted you know a future hall of famer or under or picked it out in a future an undrafted guy and that that would be a ceiling but you know they did so shout out to polls who who who had a better option than what I was throwing out at the time but at least he followed the current plan i don't mind drafting an older player too i've come around on this this idea well i people care a little bit i think it depends it depends but if if i mean how often do your draft picks get that second contract from your original team like half so if you could get two or three good years not even right out of like a like a day three pick where he's immensely valuable in special teams i think that's a win well yeah and the biggest right flag to me with the older players like oh of course he's doing well in college now he's 25 he's competing against 20 year olds he's that much more developed so he can do it um you know if you go back to karm's amazing hoop career at 25 if you had put me there in intramural basketball at iowa they would have had a real problem not just an elite but valus was the 75th overall pick right 71 71 that that's too high valus was bad yeah day three i'm talking yeah Well, that one was – sometimes polls tries to – or I shouldn't just limit it to Ryan. Sometimes general managers try to be the smartest guy in the room, and when you go down that road, a lot of times you end up looking the opposite. So, anyway, that's my guy for the day. Well, I'm curious to see what Rasheed Sheehy gets out on the open market. If he gets the open market. because that if you really want now even he's not Devin Hester again let's be very clear about that but he's the best returner in the game right now if you want to make that guy no that's a different level I'm not going to push back if you want to make that investment okay if you can if the cap fits it from what I've seen Weijin's got Wiggle I think he's got the instincts to do it I do not think he is tops like a t-shirt there Weejan's got the Weejan Wiggle. Weejan Wiggle. You tell me that wouldn't sound? Let's have that ready for draft night, just in case. Listen, if it happens... Carm said it first. Carm said it first. That's the whole point of the segment. That is the point. I interviewed him. I boxed out Phil Thompson. I told you on March, whatever it was, that this is the guy. So if it hits, take that. And by the way, shout out to the Craigulator who gifted 20 YouTube memberships again. Wow. Let's go Craig. It's time for the regulator. 50 bucks to Carm. Regarding last week in a vacuum, you cannot hear in a vacuum. There is no sound just like in space. Glad I could clear that up for Bragg's in absentia. Well, I'm happy to report that Greg spent his weekend trying to figure out what that phrase actually meant. And he's going to come back from Arizona, where he's working very hard this weekend. Is he already there? No, he's taking a couple days to prepare himself. To prepare himself. To work hard? For his next fun work trip. He's, of course, is there? Because last week's fun work trip was. Not enough? No, no, he's got to go to some baseball games and a Bulls game. That's a great, I mean, shout out to Gregory, who's figuring out how to be a dynamic individual in this company better than most of us. And he's got After Dark tonight. So he's actually not off today. It's going to be a great show with Shane and Phil and Greg and maybe a ranker. And maybe Fran because they've been doing – Fran's going to be on Hogan Johns tomorrow too. Fran's going to be on every show for the next two months. Fran's the greatest. Craig, you're the man. Thank you. And I think you did just do at least a little bit in clearing that up, but I still don't think Bragg knows what in a vacuum means. And quite frankly, I'm not sure that I know what it means, if I'm being honest. Nobody can explain it to me where I can comprehend it. That's okay. Cornell Bryant, five bucks. Cornell's been off his game today, as per usual. We love you, Cornell. Polls gave DJ an extension just for the hard knocks cameras. Now just look how big a mistake that was. Cornell. It was a great hard knock scene. I spent my time thinking about hard knocks way too much. It just did not age well. The entire series? Yeah. Like, it was just, everybody was so excited about it. We were excited about it. We had a great interview with the producer, remember? Shannon. In the middle of the... We did breaking shows. She did a fantastic job. We were doing extra shows for Hard Knocks. Well, it was like, almost at the time, it was like, how many breaking shows should we do? Because this is going to be amazing. How long should we be on? Let's go for three hours to break down Hard Knocks. We had flooses, bees. The Ferret. Ferret, that's right. Kevin Warren had some weird setup in some room about the stadium. Remember that one? Well, two years later. That's what I mean. I don't know that there was anything. Rerack it. But we did go from no swear words in hard knocks to F the Packers. We learned in hard knocks that Caleb Williams was looking at Matt Eberfuss like he was a complete moron. That's what we learned. That's what I learned. I'm like, that's body language is terrible. Called in Mick Saban. Right. Extra reinforcements. Right. When you do right, you get right. Right. Right. We're losing him, everybody. Right. He was lost before the show started. I'm not talking about flutes. I'm talking about him. You don't remember that? I remember all of it. Right. Okay. No, wrong. Get out of here. Enough. See you later. William B. 2290. What's up, William? Became a diehard over the weekend. The draft guide is ridiculously good for a nerd like me. Thank you. Thanks for all you guys do. First of all, self-nerding yourself is, that's good. It's good awareness. Congratulations. And it's not just for nerds, the draft guide. It's for everybody. As in, I'm nerding out on that draft guide big time. Well, there was somebody who responded to my tweet earlier this morning that was like, you think I'm going to pay for another draft analyst to be wrong about the draft? And I just wanted to be like, yeah, it's that good. You should pay $36 for Fran to be wrong about the draft. That's how it's still that good. It's not right or wrong. It's just information. He's just telling about the players. You know who's wrong about the draft a lot? NFL GMs. Yes. Who spent a lot of time? Like, forget about the rankings and whatever. If you just read the information on every single, make up your own mind. I mean, a lot of that's what I do. I tell Fran all the time. I'm like, you know, but I take all the information that he puts in there, including the highlights. And he's already, by the way, Caden Weijin, I just looked it up. He's got his notes from the combine in there already. Yeah. And he's 177th on the big board. I was there when Fran was talking to Weijin. He was asking him a ton of questions. It says, did everything but the broad jump. He had a pretty good field workout. Had one drop the entire day. He's tracking drops for every single player. uh in his oh and it was in his second run of the gauntlet that's specific but outside of that he looked good he's smooth he can gear up quicker than you think confident at the catch point quick in and out of breaks the gear up thing is what stands out to me on the youtube he's he's yeah he's got he's got some twitch too man he'd be he would be a fun guy to watch on a week in a week you would think when the ball's punted to him that he could do it so i like watching that every week do you like watching that every week yeah i like watching that every week you know what i liked watching yesterday you didn't well it depends what you're going to say but i'm no no i'm talking about the first ever championship for the great beckett bernfeld okay uh shout out to my guy david edelman who does a phenomenal job with play hard hoops and uh beckett was a late comer here we you know he he somehow got on the team late in the year they took a chance on him dude worked his butt off again so he's a ringer yeah well he's he's he's coming on he's coming on uh but this is my amazing girlfriend's oldest son who had a hell of a weekend also you know just popped up at the northwestern game to hang out with nick martinelli after his game winner against oregon so that was his inspiration for winning the ship yesterday that's his buddy connor right there um connor apparently got money from his parents to buy those hats that they got at the cats so we're supporting in all ways here go cats uh but uh you know he had the first couple of buckets of the game when it was you know when when things were in doubt team team pulled away for an easy victory they won by a one point on saturday shot at the buzzer front of the rim no good play hard hoops advancing and uh they got it done so his grandmother cried i just sat there like you cried too yeah it might have been a there was a couple inner tears there but uh shout out to beckett that was inner tears yeah youth sports there's nothing better and i you know you know Shout out to the parents. Didn't see anybody yell at the coach and or the referees. So congratulations to the Play Hard Hoops crew here who were professionals because we know that that's not always the case in sports. Definitely not. If that's you, stop it. Yeah. I had my first conversation with a ref on Saturday all season. No, it was a week. It was a nice conversation. Game eight. And it was a question. What was the question? Well, the other guy. Why are you so bad? No. No. The other team has Giannis. I'm going to talk about you on my podcast. So the team has who? Giannis. Giannis? The Giannis of the league. This kid's... Okay, they've got a Giannis. Credit to him. He's unbelievable. He's a great kid, too. Okay. Too many follow calls for him? No, in a fifth and sixth grade basketball league, and he's like... I'm serious. He's like Wemby in this league. Right. Like in his size. There's literally no way to play defense on him. so if you're going to call every little ticky tack foul right that's ridiculous why don't you just let them go well we'll just we'll just part the lane for them so when when when our best player had four fouls in the third quarter i'm like are you really going to follow them out that's what that's what is are you really going to foul out like a 10 year old over this right now and they didn't call another foul on them the rest of the game that's good coach that's good gamesmanship i think i made my point yes i didn't yell at him i just talked to him about it yeah uh i'll do one more thing out there if i may these these youth tournaments they're 10 year olds 11 year olds 12 year olds in a facility now they're setting up tables to charge the parents to go watch their kids play in the league that they're paying insane amounts of money to have the kid out there come on man that's we could do a whole podcast series on this karma and i will probably lead the way i mean three sons playing travel sports i mean you're charging me 10 bucks to come in or nope not doing it sorry i'll walk around you every time but you know that's it i'm gonna sneak you with my cap does that go to the facility though or is it going to the travel league it's going to the facility what are those two different things is my point i have no idea i don't care it's you don't charge for this that's that's nuts sorry you know a lot of these parents i would assume are spending money they don't have to get their kids in these leagues. And now you're going to charge them to come and watch their kid play? Get out of here, man. That's – come on. Well, this is definitely a total – did we already bring this up? There was a moment in – now I'm going on a huge tangent. There was a moment in the Olympics where they interviewed, like, the guy that runs youth cross-country skiing in Norway. You notice how Norway won all the medals? Because they all just do cross-country. They all do all these winter sports. well they're they're interviewing this guy he's like well here's what we do uh we make it free and and um nobody wins or loses until they're 13 years old and everybody loves doing it and everybody continues doing it and it doesn't cost a lot of money and then they're all good and it's like yeah that makes sense and and literally the reporter who did this was like and it's just like fun he goes yeah it's the guy even like slammed dunked on america a little bit He was like, yeah, you know, we believe in that it's affordable and it's fun. It's a crazy concept, right? I'm like, I like this guy. This is my guy. Cross-country skiing. Like, can you just have basketball where nobody wins or loses? A baseball game without outcomes? Soccer, there's ties. I'm trying to think about what he said exactly. I mean, they're obviously still racing, so there must be. Someone's winning. Maybe it was that, like, nobody gets caught off the table. I don't know what it was exactly. The point was that it was. Peanut Head Jet, by the way, just said Johns is the antithesis of Meatball. Congratulations. That's a big accomplishment right there. I don't know who Greg's, Greg Bragg's junior lover is out of nowhere. I'm assuming it's Greg himself. I saw that as my first guess as well. Or is Carm Sweet Bippy stepping up for Bragg's too? Or do we just have somebody who actually loves Bragg's to that level? There was also a great comment from Carm Sweet Bippy that said that we're going to have to bring it up. Shout out Phil Snow. No. That was a good comment. Yeah, that was good. The bottom one, Steven. Monty is to the Lions as Don Burr is to this chat. We miss you, Don Burr. I see Chim's in here today. Yeah. Actually, we probably don't miss you, but we want you back nonetheless, Don Burr. And I saw somebody said, the iceberg I think said that he would rather hear about my tennis match than whatever we're talking about right now. Norwegian. Yeah. Well, I cross-country skiing. Just to satiate you, the iceberg, it is the quarterfinals of the playoffs tonight. Me versus Jake, 9 o'clock. I got very little chance, but we're going to give it your best. I'm going to give it my best. I was, you know, maybe I just have not played enough to even remotely consider that I'm going to be able to do it. How old is Jake? 20 years younger than me. Okay, okay. It's a real player. I mean, I lost 7-5, 6-4 to him last time, but I played my ass off and I still lost. So do I? We'll have to figure it out. Maybe I got something in there. Move it around. Let's go. I'm happy to report that Pat Norton is alive and mostly well. Seems like he's battling a little combine flu. The old combine flu pad, huh? Adam was making fun of me for washing my hands twice. You gave ESPN 1000 a lot of content last week. Happy to. Well, the other side part of that story is why is Mark Silverman watching me so much in the bathroom? Well, in the fact that he did so without you even knowing, which is also... Just saying. Two parts to every story. Two sides to every story. Sylvie is in a very, he's in an observant Sylvie. Got to give him credit. Always reporting. Okay. Is the show over? I think it's over. Norway bans scorekeeping, limits travel, delays specialization, and caps costs. And it leads the all-time Winter Olympics medal count. Pat Norton, I'm Venmoing you money right now for the snacks that you bought. Sorry that I forgot to do that. I don't remember the way too, but I got it. Yeah. What'd you kick down? What's the number? I gave it 25. Okay. You had 26 from me. One more than Steven. Wait, for snacks? Yeah, I got so many snacks that you buy. I got two frozen pizzas and like a bag of chips. Okay, so I'm giving less because I didn't eat any of those frozen pizzas. But I did have a couple bananas and some water. This feels like something we figured out after the show. It's very important. We're done here. Yeah. we are done yet we are done i'd like to keep john's coming back on mondays if we can that would be good that would be good i agree let's end the show uh all right uh hoge is back tomorrow with an amazing interview with alan robinson yes steven's going to talk some draft with us um as well and uh we also have hogan john's live at 10 a.m and fray and duffy's going to join us we got bears after dark i think we need more bear shows i i the middle of the office We got you covered. Every single, and we're hoping news comes along the way, too. I heard that Bragg has three more randos that he wants to give a show to. We'll see you tomorrow. Thank you.